it must be so fustrating having to deal with people you can't understand . all that money could be used to employe more officers . what a waste.
i no a lot of these people make out they can't understand us just to be arkward . i no ive seen the bill .
if they can't speek english after a year they should be sent home. even broken english after a year is better than nothing . if i was at no10 .i realy would not find it hard saying NO to these people if they break the law in the first place arrested for anything they should be sent packing that should be the rule when they enter this country . also get them micro chipped atleast you can track them down . if they dont agree then they cant stay . other country can put rules on us abroad why can't they follow ours ..this country got better things to do with our police force without making there work harder with the free loaders comming here making things worse ..jilted john

Here we go!Hold on for the "Bloody east european",muslim,bla
h,blah,blah.I am of the opinion that anyone should be allowed to live where they like,providing they are willing to follow the law of the land(whichever land they choose)and intergrate with the nativesI.E.learn the language,as J.J.said,broken is better than none,respect that they are the visitor and local traditions should be respected(If you read "the sun"you´ll know that muslims want xmas banned!!!not that it has ever been proven!)And,not expect to be catered for on the grounds that"They didn´t understand".

mike in a way certain words on chistmas cards are banned now . also the way shops do there windows around christmas time . then there is the wearing of the cross that was never a issue years ago . i no its got nothing to do with any race living here . its just the british second guessing what other races should expect us to do . i realy think they don't give a **** what we celebrate. they have there own belifies . but if the british are going to ban a person wearing a cross in schools or work places , then it realy has gone mad.
there is a lot of things that go on in other countries than british people dont like but thats there way of life and we have to live with it . like eating dogs, bull fighting killing whales and many more . the problem is when they bring there way of life here behind closed doors.thats not british law . jilted john

Well said Mike. I certainly believe in "when in Rome...." etc, and certainly, if I contemplated emigrating I would be prepared to learn the language and fit in with the culture. Either that, or I wouldn't go.

I'm sure there are good honest hard working immigrants who do exactly this. Those who don't are giving the others a bad name, and certainly stirring up bad feeling in this country, as posts on this thread, and yesterday's immigrant thread illustrates.

I feel our country has got it very wrong, for example, the Police having to shell out tax payer's money like this.

I feel another example is when people from other cultures move over here and demand their own religions be taught at schools, whereas they should have their own churches, etc to do this. I certainly wouldn't move to a moslem country with offspring, then expect them to be caught Christianity in schools, it just wouldn't happen!

And before some one else accuses me of being racist, I am not. As Mike said, anyone should be allowed to live where they want, but follow the law of the land.

I would hope that others will post on this subject and respectfully differ with others' views. However, I wouldn't be surprised if I get a slating for simply stating a fair and honest opinion!

We shall see. Debate away people....

A company called Language Line,interpreters over the phone or ideally invest in the area you are based in and develop a team of locals who speak the language and use them as interpreters.

I'm really pleased to see some actualy debating going on on this thread, without outright hatred. So I'll respond.

First - responses to other comments. As far as I know (and I've looked into it) the whole banning of Christmas thing is yet another internet/media hoax like the one about not teaching the Holocaust for fear of offence. It's likely that once or two councils were considering it, then got told to stop being so bloody silly - but the story got leaked anyway.

Jilted John is right about one thing - the majority of muslims, hindus, buddhists and jews really don;t care what we celebrate. They aren't offended by Christmas, or easter, in the slightest. Why should they, when it doesn't compact on their home lives, and they can also get double time when the Christians all want a holiday! It's more a case of people trying to second guess what might offend - and getting it horribly wrong.

The wearing of the cross issue a few years ago (British Airways, wasn't it?) was again blown out of all proportion. It wasn't a ban on wearing crosses - it was a ban on wearing all jewellery. Yes, turbans were allowed, as they were not jewellery. They are actually not even an expression of the Sikh faith - they are a health and safety issue. Headscarves were allowed for muslims, but I believe had to be in line with corporate dress policy (correct colours etc). And the dress code had been in place for years with no issues and no complaints, until this one lady decided to make an issue of it. I think she was in the wrong.

By the same respect, the Sikh girl in the valleys with the issue of wearing a kara. I think she was in the wrong. The school uniform policy was in place before she joined, and she was made aware of it. It applies equally to all pupils, and should continue to do so.

I am a believer that the laws of a country should not be altered to reflect the immigration profile. I would not expect a different country to change to suit me - in fact I'd likely be moving to that country for the culture it already had - not to change it into the culture I'd just left. That's just daft.

Old Fashioned is right - there are indeed very hard working immigrants who do a solid days work, pay their taxes and live with the British culture - right up to eating a roast on Sunday. I've lived wth a few of them, and to be honest I'd rather we keep people like that in this country and get rid of the useless work-shy layabouts infesting our streets and estates who were born here. The immigrants make more of a contribution to this society in a year than these shell-suit wearing idiots will in their whole lives.

Right - as for my views on the matter at hand - interpreters. I think it's tricky - but interpreters to me should be provided on the same ground as legal aid. If a person can afford their own lawyer, they should pay for their own interpretation. If not, then they should find someone in their community who can translate for them. The only time that an interpreter should ALWAYS be provided is in the case of emergency care (A&E) and when investigating serious criminal activity, as otherwise a person could use their first language as a get out clause to escape justice. It shouldn't be used for community policing or whatever.

Oops - thatw as a bit of a long post. Apologies for taking up so much space.

Mike, the turban is worn for religous reasons, that combined with the 5 K's that sikhs wear identifies someone as a sikh as it is the khalsa uniform.

Muslims don't have a problem with Christmas wejust think they do and are too busy falling over ourselves not to offend them.
Muslims believe that Christ was a great prophet but not the Son of God.
In some ways that could be seen as blasphemous to any Christians, but this country is a multicultural country and has to accept criticisms of its religon the same as there are criticisms of all religons.

This does seem to be a cost that Blair and co didn't take into consideration when opening up the borders to all and sundry- if you take the extra costs met by Gwent Police and then multiply that by the rests of the police forces around the country and add in the costs of translating for health services, social services, housing then you must be looking at a spend of over £5 million.

However, I am not endorsing and end to immigration and the vilification of asylum seekers as everyone is a person, a human and if you were in their popsition I am sure you would try very hard to improve your lot.

wolvesfan wrote:
Mike, the turban is worn for religous reasons, that combined with the 5 K's that sikhs wear identifies someone as a sikh as it is the khalsa uniform. Muslims don't have a problem with Christmas wejust think they do and are too busy falling over ourselves not to offend them. Muslims believe that Christ was a great prophet but not the Son of God. In some ways that could be seen as blasphemous to any Christians, but this country is a multicultural country and has to accept criticisms of its religon the same as there are criticisms of all religons. This does seem to be a cost that Blair and co didn't take into consideration when opening up the borders to all and sundry- if you take the extra costs met by Gwent Police and then multiply that by the rests of the police forces around the country and add in the costs of translating for health services, social services, housing then you must be looking at a spend of over £5 million. However, I am not endorsing and end to immigration and the vilification of asylum seekers as everyone is a person, a human and if you were in their popsition I am sure you would try very hard to improve your lot.

Only one issue - the turban itself isn't an article of faith. The 5 parts of the khalsa are the karigha (small comb), kara (bracelet), kirpan (ceremonial short sword), kaccha (special undergarments) and kes (uncut hair).

The distinctive turban merely serves to keep the uncut hair in order, and safe from becoming trapped in something/catching fire etc.

Other than that - I pretty much agree with everything you have to say.

Job creation schemes ? Interpreters r us... shouldn't we be TEACHING them English ? and saving the police and LA's and the taxpayers all this expense ? Does 'multiculturalism' mean we cannot demand they make themselves understood ? learn even the basics of the host country's language ? If we migrant to Spain or elsewhere we have to learn the lingo to live there, this DOESN'T apply to those coming HERE ? GIie them the UK free why don't you ?

The Avon Lady wrote:
A company called Language Line,interpreters over the phone or ideally invest in the area you are based in and develop a team of locals who speak the language and use them as interpreters.

Hi AL, Police do use Languageline.

Good idea about using the locals, better than having some on-call interpreter who has to drive a fair way, claim mileage expenses, call-out fees etc.

im sure if we commited a crime in there country, there police services wouldnt be so undertsanding and kind as to provide an interpreter :D

Me wrote:
im sure if we commited a crime in there country, there police services wouldnt be so undertsanding and kind as to provide an interpreter :D

That's a really falacious argument.

We are supposed to be a first world country, and a leading light in civilised behaviour. Why do people insist on comparing us to war-torn regimes when it comes to our treatment of people from other countries?

Surely we should be setting our own standards of behaviour, rather than comparing us to others.

Steve wrote:

Me wrote: im sure if we commited a crime in there country, there police services wouldnt be so undertsanding and kind as to provide an interpreter :D

That's a really falacious argument. We are supposed to be a first world country, and a leading light in civilised behaviour. Why do people insist on comparing us to war-torn regimes when it comes to our treatment of people from other countries? Surely we should be setting our own standards of behaviour, rather than comparing us to others.

That's your classic mistake we ARE a third world country now. You have to be living in the pre-first world war times to see Britain as any sort of 'world power', currently we are about 15th.

At least with a 'regime' there is an opportunity to get rid ! because we use the vote, and because britons DON'T, people do what they like, is it freedom ? not as we know it... the standard seems to be let's go down to others level, not raise them to ours. I don't thinkw e shoudl spend anything interpreting for these people, they shoudl leanr before they come here, we're talking MILLIONs of people not a few tourists, the scale is horrendous. I read somewhere deaf people who use sign language cannot get interpreter support, access to the NHS, and the 999 services, still, they're only Brits.... now if they had come from slovakia we would be throwing support and cash their way...

i see above posts making a lot of grea ideas . it's a shame gordan brown don't read these posts to see what the people of the uk have to say .
jilted john

john wrote:
i see above posts making a lot of grea ideas . it's a shame gordan brown don't read these posts to see what the people of the uk have to say . jilted john

Ah, but JJ, he doesn't care what the average Jo Public thinks does he?

Sorry, I digress...

BTW, nice to see a good debate and healthy appreciation of different views coming across. Refreshing change from the immigrant thread yesterday where some people saw it as an excuse to throw names and insults just because their opinions differed.

john wrote:
it must be so fustrating having to deal with people you can't understand . all that money could be used to employe more officers . what a waste.
i no a lot of these people make out they can't understand us just to be arkward . i no ive seen the bill .
if they can't speek english after a year they should be sent home. even broken english after a year is better than nothing . if i was at no10 .i realy would not find it hard saying NO to these people if they break the law in the first place arrested for anything they should be sent packing that should be the rule when they enter this country . also get them micro chipped atleast you can track them down . if they dont agree then they cant stay . other country can put rules on us abroad why can't they follow ours ..this country got better things to do with our police force without making there work harder with the free loaders comming here making things worse ..jilted john

No offence but maybe YOU should learn English too, judging by your posts.

Unless of course you're being incredibly ironic, in which case I salute your humour.

You poor, hard done by police people...are you actually aware that there is a world out there? one with, owwww, i don't know, over 70 countries? does the police intend on isolating themselves from the big bad world just because the trained and well paid officers are complaining? This is a disgraceful story, lazy cops and lack of interest in the international world? very sad Mr top police chief

King of the Hill wrote:

john wrote: it must be so fustrating having to deal with people you can't understand . all that money could be used to employe more officers . what a waste. i no a lot of these people make out they can't understand us just to be arkward . i no ive seen the bill . if they can't speek english after a year they should be sent home. even broken english after a year is better than nothing . if i was at no10 .i realy would not find it hard saying NO to these people if they break the law in the first place arrested for anything they should be sent packing that should be the rule when they enter this country . also get them micro chipped atleast you can track them down . if they dont agree then they cant stay . other country can put rules on us abroad why can't they follow ours ..this country got better things to do with our police force without making there work harder with the free loaders comming here making things worse ..jilted john

No offence but maybe YOU should learn English too, judging by your posts. Unless of course you're being incredibly ironic, in which case I salute your humour.

HA! "it must be so fustrating having to deal with people you can't understand". I would have thought this was the norm in gwent with so many piddled pee heads causing trouble? It should be basic practise by now eh?

Me wrote:
im sure if we commited a crime in there country, there police services wouldnt be so undertsanding and kind as to provide an interpreter :D

'Their' country i think you mean , and have you actually travelled abroad? personally i don't think you'd be very welcome in any foreign country? not very open minded i think? just a little bigoted me thinks? muppet.

Steve wrote:

Me wrote: im sure if we commited a crime in there country, there police services wouldnt be so undertsanding and kind as to provide an interpreter :D

That's a really falacious argument. We are supposed to be a first world country, and a leading light in civilised behaviour. Why do people insist on comparing us to war-torn regimes when it comes to our treatment of people from other countries? Surely we should be setting our own standards of behaviour, rather than comparing us to others.

GOOD GOOD point!!! Every time there is a racial issue, it's "if i was in their country..blah blah"...or "i am not a racist but"...some people insist on hanging onto old, out-dated and downright politically incorrect ideals, Maybe most of you (anti anything foreign or new ) moaners here haven't even met another human being(yes they are Human too, with feelings, and a heart and they hurt )from another country? Or if they have, it was a bad experience? whatever, get over your prejudice's and get used to the world being a global melting pot! my god...

Well done Steve! you gave an accurate account on the situation. Extremely refreshing.

seren_night wrote:
You poor, hard done by police people...are you actually aware that there is a world out there? one with, owwww, i don't know, over 70 countries? does the police intend on isolating themselves from the big bad world just because the trained and well paid officers are complaining? This is a disgraceful story, lazy cops and lack of interest in the international world? very sad Mr top police chief

Seren

Forgive me, but I do believe this story is simply about the cost (i.e. taxpayer's money) involved, not a gripe from "lazy cops".

Just an observation...

seren_night wrote:

Me wrote: im sure if we commited a crime in there country, there police services wouldnt be so undertsanding and kind as to provide an interpreter :D

'Their' country i think you mean , and have you actually travelled abroad? personally i don't think you'd be very welcome in any foreign country? not very open minded i think? just a little bigoted me thinks? muppet.

C,mon, no need for name-calling, what happened to a healthy debate, with a respectful disagreement on opinions?

Manners....

(The old-fashioned bit in me again, I'm afraid!)

Old fashioned wrote:

seren_night wrote:

Me wrote: im sure if we commited a crime in there country, there police services wouldnt be so undertsanding and kind as to provide an interpreter :D

'Their' country i think you mean , and have you actually travelled abroad? personally i don't think you'd be very welcome in any foreign country? not very open minded i think? just a little bigoted me thinks? muppet.

C,mon, no need for name-calling, what happened to a healthy debate, with a respectful disagreement on opinions? Manners.... (The old-fashioned bit in me again, I'm afraid!)

OK OK, i'll take back the Muppet comment. After all slagging off those who are not able to see the whole picture isn't fair on their little furr-brained empty hearted bigots!!!ok now peeps?...m .....u ......p .....p ....

Old fashioned wrote:

seren_night wrote: You poor, hard done by police people...are you actually aware that there is a world out there? one with, owwww, i don't know, over 70 countries? does the police intend on isolating themselves from the big bad world just because the trained and well paid officers are complaining? This is a disgraceful story, lazy cops and lack of interest in the international world? very sad Mr top police chief

Seren Forgive me, but I do believe this story is simply about the cost (i.e. taxpayer's money) involved, not a gripe from "lazy cops". Just an observation...

sorry, just when people say things like "if i was in there(eir) country"..."when people from other cultures move over here and demand their own religions be taught at schools..." it just gets me sooooooo annoyed and disgusted that this kind of attitude still allowed to carry on IN TODAYS MULTI-CULTURAL SOCIETY, IF WE LIVED IN CENTRAL LONDON THIS WOULDN'T ATTRACT SUCH DEROGITORY REMARKS FROM SMALL MINDED PEOPLE!!!

I have spent over 50 years working and contributing to this pot of gold that other nationalities seem to have an entitlement to.
I day dream of a Britain that is largely free from these freeloaders,that is free from mindless vandals and the havoc and destruction they cause, I dream of a health service that operates as it was intended, instead of people being refused life saving treatment because it isn`t cost effective, or because they have the wrong post code,I also have a dream of a government that puts people first instead of their own interests, the dream goes on and on. Before I am accused of being racist I should say that I am, but then everyone else is in the true sense of the word not the way it has become twisted into something that is regarded as being evil. I might also add that of the 190 ?countries of the world I have visited about 35 of them.In every one I have treated people with due respect and have received equal respect in return.Welcome to Britain one and all, but respect our traditions ( which I`m sure they do)but please come prepared to support yourselves, come when you can speak the language.Come when you don`t need to dip into our pot of gold!

I'm really pleased to see some actualy debating going on on this thread, without outright hatred.

Guess you spoke too soon eh Steve?!Shame .Oh well,maybe next time a story comes up about imigrants,foreigners
,scroungers(you know how it is?)

Mike, the turban is worn for religous reasons, that combined with the 5 K's that sikhs wear identifies someone as a sikh as it is the khalsa uniform.

If you took the time to read my post,I never mentioned turbans,sikhs or any other symbol of religion(The cross included!)Couldn´t care less for any of these symbols...live and let live,and long live I!

seren_night wrote:

Steve wrote:

Me wrote: im sure if we commited a crime in there country, there police services wouldnt be so undertsanding and kind as to provide an interpreter :D

That's a really falacious argument. We are supposed to be a first world country, and a leading light in civilised behaviour. Why do people insist on comparing us to war-torn regimes when it comes to our treatment of people from other countries? Surely we should be setting our own standards of behaviour, rather than comparing us to others.

GOOD GOOD point!!! Every time there is a racial issue, it's "if i was in their country..blah blah"...or "i am not a racist but"...some people insist on hanging onto old, out-dated and downright politically incorrect ideals, Maybe most of you (anti anything foreign or new ) moaners here haven't even met another human being(yes they are Human too, with feelings, and a heart and they hurt )from another country? Or if they have, it was a bad experience? whatever, get over your prejudice's and get used to the world being a global melting pot! my god...

Only one slight issue - immigration isn't actually a matter of racism. Problems with immigration apply euqally to White Europeans (with exactly the same genetic roots as the native Brits).

I would happily welcome into this country anyone who would enrich it's mulitcultural status. I would happily see the UK become the most cosmopolitan culture in the world, with open worship in every religion, and following of any culture.

He11, on a personal note I've lived among Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists and Christians (while I'm a Jew married to a Pagan). I've lived and worked with people from a whole host of nations, both Asian, Euspoean and African. And I've enjoyed every minute of it.

However, all I would ask of any immigrant is to contribute to society in the same way that my British-born neighbour would. I'd love to see a Britain where any visitor could treat us with respect, and be treated the same way in return.

Unfortunately, there are people in both camps (British Citizens and Immigrants) who will not do so, and who make no effort to do so. That makes me... unhappy.

Communication, that's the root of it all, there isn't any with police having to hire interpreters for 70 different languages. If mongolot Brits walked into reas with high immigration popualtions it's like another world altogether,so you just don't risk confrontatations, the divide widens and on and on it goes. It does seem the penalties are stacked against the native Brit, who can't do anything without referrring to the racial equality laws first, laws that don't work in reverse don't work at all.

duncan wrote:
I have spent over 50 years working and contributing to this pot of gold that other nationalities seem to have an entitlement to. I day dream of a Britain that is largely free from these freeloaders,that is free from mindless vandals and the havoc and destruction they cause, I dream of a health service that operates as it was intended, instead of people being refused life saving treatment because it isn`t cost effective, or because they have the wrong post code,I also have a dream of a government that puts people first instead of their own interests, the dream goes on and on. Before I am accused of being racist I should say that I am, but then everyone else is in the true sense of the word not the way it has become twisted into something that is regarded as being evil. I might also add that of the 190 ?countries of the world I have visited about 35 of them.In every one I have treated people with due respect and have received equal respect in return.Welcome to Britain one and all, but respect our traditions ( which I`m sure they do)but please come prepared to support yourselves, come when you can speak the language.Come when you don`t need to dip into our pot of gold!

Well-said Duncan. I could not have said it better myself. Really I could not have.
I do notice on these posts it doesn’t seem to matter what the topic. You lot will always start arguments with each other.
jilted john

Peopoe argue because they are frightened at what is happening, the reaction is totally normal, when nothing at all is done, to alleviate those fears. You CANNOT Havea society where so many different cultures exist as stand-alone ones and not integrating with the others, you will, and as we are seeing, get sheer chaos, the next step is confrontation. Our government has its head in the sand and doesn't know how to handle this, it is going totake very drastic legislation and a split from Europe at least to stop the rot, and despite the country indicating 78% want out, no-one is listening to them. Brits don't work well as 'global' citizens !

Steve wrote:

wolvesfan wrote: Mike, the turban is worn for religous reasons, that combined with the 5 K's that sikhs wear identifies someone as a sikh as it is the khalsa uniform. Muslims don't have a problem with Christmas wejust think they do and are too busy falling over ourselves not to offend them. Muslims believe that Christ was a great prophet but not the Son of God. In some ways that could be seen as blasphemous to any Christians, but this country is a multicultural country and has to accept criticisms of its religon the same as there are criticisms of all religons. This does seem to be a cost that Blair and co didn't take into consideration when opening up the borders to all and sundry- if you take the extra costs met by Gwent Police and then multiply that by the rests of the police forces around the country and add in the costs of translating for health services, social services, housing then you must be looking at a spend of over £5 million. However, I am not endorsing and end to immigration and the vilification of asylum seekers as everyone is a person, a human and if you were in their popsition I am sure you would try very hard to improve your lot.

Only one issue - the turban itself isn't an article of faith. The 5 parts of the khalsa are the karigha (small comb), kara (bracelet), kirpan (ceremonial short sword), kaccha (special undergarments) and kes (uncut hair). The distinctive turban merely serves to keep the uncut hair in order, and safe from becoming trapped in something/catching fire etc. Other than that - I pretty much agree with everything you have to say.

thats why i said the turban combined with the 5 k's!!!
Keep up Steve ;)