Hundreds of Gwent teachers off sick due to stress (From South Wales Argus)

disgrace , simple to fix just dont pay them when they are SICK. i dont get sick pay and so have not been sick for years, funny that, ssp is 80 quid a week so that will do them,,,,

Actually it's not bad by public sector standards. As a former public sector employee I know that the only way you got respect was to be off on the sick. I "struggled" back 2 weeks after a hernia op when I could have come back after 3 days and everyone was lovely to me.
But if you want the Big State this is one of the prices you must pay.

if they spend so much time being ill maybe they are is the wrong job anyway
does anyone have a word with them when they battle back to work, any normal company would moniter there sickness level and be in deep poo from then on. do teachers ever get the sack for being sick, i know people who where sacked when on the sick, reason given was they are not fit to do the job. seems simple to me...

Teaching.
The highest paid part time profession in Britain.

It's true,
Those who can do - those who can't teach.

Government interference, unruly and aggressive kids and their hostile parents, who needs it ? I know teachers who are now happier stacking shelves in a corner shop than facing a daily battle to educate these nere-do-wells an chav parents who are even thicker than they are. The JOB is making them ill. You can't control these kids, their parents don't bother either. If I was a teacher I'd learn a new trade too, it's just not worth the hassle.

Mervyn James wrote:
Government interference, unruly and aggressive kids and their hostile parents, who needs it ? I know teachers who are now happier stacking shelves in a corner shop than facing a daily battle to educate these nere-do-wells an chav parents who are even thicker than they are. The JOB is making them ill. You can't control these kids, their parents don't bother either. If I was a teacher I'd learn a new trade too, it's just not worth the hassle.

Workplace stress has been a feature of the private sector for years. You'd be amazed how much sales people suffer when targets are proving difficult. And people who run their own businesses struggle when they can't get feet through the door. They don't get twelve weeks off a year and gilt-edged pensions either. If private sector conditions have caught up with people paid out of tax-payers money then I doubt we should lose too much sleep.

Another profession ruined by unions I'm afraid. So far out of touch with the public its unreal. I'm glad the Government are making head teachers accountable for performance & that means performance related pay- terrifying for the lazy, frightening for the inept (of which there are plenty, but Union rules mean they cannot get rid of, just promoted away from teaching posts!)

corpamassive wrote:
Teaching.
The highest paid part time profession in Britain.

It's true,
Those who can do - those who can't teach.

Yes. And those who can neither do nor teach sit at their keyboards and write utter predictable tripe.

It's not surprising there is this problem in the education system when you see the level of ignorance and lack of understanding displayed in the majority of these posts. This manifests itself in the total lack of support or engagement from many parents which is, unfortunately, commonplace these days.
If ever evidence were needed, a read through these comments above would be sufficient.

I'd still want danger money and 52 weeks off a year...

Can someone from The Argus tell us using The Freedom Of Information Act how much it actually costs to replace nearly 20,000 of these lost sick days in Gwent with a temp teacher.

These temp companies must be raking it in, especially if your a rep in Torfaen.

The total cost for absent teachers must amount to hundreds of thousands of pounds.

Final point, teachers can earn more than double their daily wage temping at another school.

Get em into private industry then they'd know what a day's work is about. Six weeks off in the summer should sort out any stress...more than most people get in a year...

would like some of you to spend a day, or maybe an hour would be enough, in a classroom with YOUR kids. No, I'm not a teacher. Do any of you have spellcheck on your computers by the way? (only asking)

Really depressing reading the comments here. Teachers are treated so badly by joe public. Everyone thinks they understand being teacher just because they were once pupils! I tried it for three years and it was honestly the toughest job I have ever done. The unruly pupils with even thicker and frankly abusive parents made it like going into battle every single day. Meeting targets in business! Do me a favour! Try meeting targets as well as being verbally and physically abused on a daily basis! I have always maintained to those who pontifciate how easy it is, get out there and do it!

Also for the ignorant on this forum, most teacher sickness is covered by colleagues and not temp staff! I know because I did it plenty of times! Thus not costing extra!

portforever wrote:
if they spend so much time being ill maybe they are is the wrong job anyway
does anyone have a word with them when they battle back to work, any normal company would moniter there sickness level and be in deep poo from then on. do teachers ever get the sack for being sick, i know people who where sacked when on the sick, reason given was they are not fit to do the job. seems simple to me...

This post has got to be a wind up, surely?
If not, I'd be surprised "Portforever" had much to do with teachers.
LOL

Did you know that teachers can have 6 month on full pay 6 months on half pay and then when it gets into the next financial year go back for a week or 2 and they get the same sick pay again, repeatedly.

I know of a 60 + year old staff member who has been on sick leave for nearly a year. They can get a full pension immediately because they are 60 but because they are under 65 they can't be retired without their consent.
So the school has to either have the uncertainty of providing cover with supply knowing they might play the sick/ return game for another 2 to 3 years (at what cost to the pupils?) or terminate them for long term sick and pay a large lump sum.

In my view this is morally wrong and an abuse of public funds as the day after this happens they will be able to claim their very nice pension and large lump sum.

This pay off money comes from school budgets and may end up in redundancies for other staff if the school can't balance their books.

Leighton Andrews needs to sort this out it's a waste of money and diverts money from school budgets.

They still have a great pension, jobs as long as we keep breeding and a pay rise each year which is more than can be said for other public sector staff.
Teachers play the "poor me card" all the time but seriously in today's economic climate who has term and conditions like this.?

Phmd wrote:
Also for the ignorant on this forum, most teacher sickness is covered by colleagues and not temp staff! I know because I did it plenty of times! Thus not costing extra!

What about "rarely cover" .?

You are wrong schools aren't supposed to cover more than 3 days by other staff, that's why cover supervisors are employed but these are rarely qualified teachers so aren't any good for long term sick.

Supply is about £150 to £200 per day via agencies

With the current attitude and lack of respect from children these days...I'm not surprised the level of sickness has increased.
Time for kids to be brought up properly like I was !!!!

sylwebydd wrote:
would like some of you to spend a day, or maybe an hour would be enough, in a classroom with YOUR kids. No, I'm not a teacher. Do any of you have spellcheck on your computers by the way? (only asking)

Possibly the day they were to do English, you were off sick....

Teachers spend years learning there trade, countless exams and tests, learning the latest PC curriculum to brain wash our young into what the Government want them to except like Muti-cultureism, European Union, and anything the Big Brother watchers want.

Imagine turning up to teach thirty kids and find that after passing your teaching exams in English the British Language you have twenty pupils who are not of our culture and cant speak your teaching language, i am surprised there's not more on the sick... not what it was like when i was in school...

portforever wrote:
if they spend so much time being ill maybe they are is the wrong job anyway
does anyone have a word with them when they battle back to work, any normal company would moniter there sickness level and be in deep poo from then on. do teachers ever get the sack for being sick, i know people who where sacked when on the sick, reason given was they are not fit to do the job. seems simple to me...

Sounds like someone is need of an English Teacher

Anon123 is totally right ! What a waste of public money.

My father was head teacher in a Newport Comprehensive for over 25yrs.

Years ago heads of departments would have to cover for teachers who were off sick.

Some days you could have 3 teachers off sick meaning my father would have to cover for them, he had to teach approx 100 pupils spread across 3 classrooms.

It wouldn't be allowed these days.

Final point : I just wanted to also point out to phmd that my nephew is the manager of a temping company in Cardiff. His job involves covering teachers who are off sick in Gwent with temps !

What first hand experience do you have phmd to state that I am ignorant on the subject ?

When you post a rant on here its not an English test. Its a rant !

I wonder how many work related lost sick days there are with prison officers.
They must face some real stress in work.

The same could be said with NHS staff, Police, Fire fighters etc.

Something needs to be done to combat stress at work, where ever you work.

It would save millions of pounds.

Independentvoter wrote:
Anon123 is totally right ! What a waste of public money.

My father was head teacher in a Newport Comprehensive for over 25yrs.

Years ago heads of departments would have to cover for teachers who were off sick.

Some days you could have 3 teachers off sick meaning my father would have to cover for them, he had to teach approx 100 pupils spread across 3 classrooms.

It wouldn't be allowed these days.

Final point : I just wanted to also point out to phmd that my nephew is the manager of a temping company in Cardiff. His job involves covering teachers who are off sick in Gwent with temps !

What first hand experience do you have phmd to state that I am ignorant on the subject ?

When you post a rant on here its not an English test. Its a rant !

I'm sure you would agree that your father was doing no more than maintaining discipline if he was running three classes at the same time, he certainly was not teaching. Thats why they have supply teachers these days, my sister was one until she became full time in London. The reason supply teachers earn a higher daily rate is because they get an annual leave payment included in their rate.

I think the education of children is one of the most important jobs you can have yet they seem to have so little support from parents and the public at large as well as the education authorities, parents support their children when they are in the wrong against teachers, even assaulting teachers who have had the temerity to tell little Johnny off. In the first quarter of 2010 the Teacher Support Network's services were used 49,000 times. Is that normal in any other occupation? It's a well paid job yet 40% are expected to leave in the next five years for a number of reasons but stress and support factor highly.

Anon why do you think it is awful that employers can't force someone to retire because they are on the sick? As for saying they can take their pension at 60 they can actually take it at 55 as can anyone else with a private or occupational pension, does not mean they can afford to retire though and I don't think you would get many wanting to be teachers if your idea was adopted and they could be forcibly pensioned of if they had a few months on the sick after a working lifetime teaching.

As for 'Corpamassive's' comment:

Those who can do - those who can't teach.

A very cheap shot, pathetic.

And you wonder why so many teachers give up and leave the profession and it appears the situation is similar with teachers in the private sector working for private schools. If the teachers don't get the support they deserve the kids will suffer and they are our future.

A cheap shot ?

myexperience of people who have become teachers is that they are not capable of surviving in a real job anyway, they go into teaching thinking it's an easy deal then realise they have do take some stick like the rest of us,then it is everybody else's fault that they can't cope and because they are work for local authority's they hide behind their terms and conditions.

Sad sad people.

Corpamassive.
You really are a sad case judging a whole profession with your experience of teachers! Do you go around meeting and discussing with teachers how they cope in the job they do? Or how they do not have a real job! Tell me what is a real job? Perhaps a proof reader for your god awful grammar! Now that would be stressful.

I think the solution is to only pay them 60% of each days pay they are of sick. That will focus their minds. If they get hit in the pocket they will come into work.

I think the solution is to only pay them 60% of each days pay they are of sick. That will focus their minds. If they get hit in the pocket they will come into work.

I think the solution is to only pay them 60% of each days pay they are of sick. That will focus their minds. If they get hit in the pocket they will come into work.

I think the solution is to only pay them 60% of each days pay they are of sick. That will focus their minds. If they get hit in the pocket they will come into work.

I think the solution is to only pay them 60% of each days pay they are of sick. That will focus their minds. If they get hit in the pocket they will come into work.

corpamassive wrote:
A cheap shot ?

myexperience of people who have become teachers is that they are not capable of surviving in a real job anyway, they go into teaching thinking it's an easy deal then realise they have do take some stick like the rest of us,then it is everybody else's fault that they can't cope and because they are work for local authority's they hide behind their terms and conditions.

Sad sad people.

I don't actually think, from what you have posted, that you have ever spoken to a Teacher since you left/ were booted out of School.

Bobevans wrote:
I think the solution is to only pay them 60% of each days pay they are of sick. That will focus their minds. If they get hit in the pocket they will come into work.

Oh dear Bob, five! Hows the neurological tremor mate? And one daft comment as well, keep taking the pills.

Howie' wrote:

Bobevans wrote: I think the solution is to only pay them 60% of each days pay they are of sick. That will focus their minds. If they get hit in the pocket they will come into work.

Oh dear Bob, five! Hows the neurological tremor mate? And one daft comment as well, keep taking the pills.

Don't encourage him.
I think that he feeds off your comments on his posts.

Bob does not need any encouragement, we tried ignoring him on the old 'Your Say' just made him worse. He's the same on other sites and attracts some pretty vitriolic comments on some.

Howie' wrote:

corpamassive wrote:
A cheap shot ?

myexperience of people who have become teachers is that they are not capable of surviving in a real job anyway, they go into teaching thinking it's an easy deal then realise they have do take some stick like the rest of us,then it is everybody else's fault that they can't cope and because they are work for local authority's they hide behind their terms and conditions.

Sad sad people.

I don't actually think, from what you have posted, that you have ever spoken to a Teacher since you left/ were booted out of School.

If only you knew Howie.

You people (most of you) simply don't understand how tough it is to be a teacher. I am one and am currently off due to stress. Here are the facts - my salary is a mere £37000 - far less than any other professionals. Our so called holidays - are 13 weeks in TOTAL. We have no choice of when to take them and our foreign holidays are always more expensive - ie trip to Florida last year over £4k !! If I ever complain about the workload - I get accused of being a whinging teacher. What other professional would go to school every day and educate children!!! Wake up and smell the coffee please!!

You people (most of you) simply don't understand how tough it is to be a teacher. I am one and am currently off due to stress. Here are the facts - my salary is a mere £37000 - far less than any other professionals. Our so called holidays - are 13 weeks in TOTAL. We have no choice of when to take them and our foreign holidays are always more expensive - ie trip to Florida last year over £4k !! If I ever complain about the workload - I get accused of being a whinging teacher. What other professional would go to school every day and educate children!!! Wake up and smell the coffee please!!

smell the coffee ,, i earn 14k and get 20 days holiday, if i miss work i dont get paid, thats stress , so maybe you should take a sniff of the coffee and get in the real world,,,

Carrot's wrote:
You people (most of you) simply don't understand how tough it is to be a teacher. I am one and am currently off due to stress. Here are the facts - my salary is a mere £37000 - far less than any other professionals. Our so called holidays - are 13 weeks in TOTAL. We have no choice of when to take them and our foreign holidays are always more expensive - ie trip to Florida last year over £4k !! If I ever complain about the workload - I get accused of being a whinging teacher. What other professional would go to school every day and educate children!!! Wake up and smell the coffee please!!

can you tell me if it is true that teachers go up the pay scales just by length of service not on performance or competency?.

So you are off with stress do you get paid for being off?.

How many teachers get the full pension by going sick and getting paid off?.

Come on spill the beans.

portforever wrote:
smell the coffee ,, i earn 14k and get 20 days holiday, if i miss work i dont get paid, thats stress , so maybe you should take a sniff of the coffee and get in the real world,,,

You get paid what you can command as a salary.

I do live in the real world and sniffed my coffee only recently - I cant drink it at the moment because of my stress.

corpamassive wrote:

Carrot's wrote:
You people (most of you) simply don't understand how tough it is to be a teacher. I am one and am currently off due to stress. Here are the facts - my salary is a mere £37000 - far less than any other professionals. Our so called holidays - are 13 weeks in TOTAL. We have no choice of when to take them and our foreign holidays are always more expensive - ie trip to Florida last year over £4k !! If I ever complain about the workload - I get accused of being a whinging teacher. What other professional would go to school every day and educate children!!! Wake up and smell the coffee please!!

can you tell me if it is true that teachers go up the pay scales just by length of service not on performance or competency?.

So you are off with stress do you get paid for being off?.

How many teachers get the full pension by going sick and getting paid off?.

Come on spill the beans.

I will try to answer your questions openly and honestly.

Of course you go up the pay scales over time - it's our right, I am a paid up member of the union so what's the problem there. If you are suggesting I am not competent then that is insulting - I dont believe there are any incompetent teachers - because they could not operate in todays tough 'inspected' world.

Of course I get paid for being off, and quite rightly. After all it was work that caused the stress.

I've no idea about the numbers getting 'paid off' - although I do confess to some hope for my own case in this respect. Being just past 50 and with 25 years in i think I deserve to retire now and contrary to popular opinion, I will be unlikely to get much more than £30k as a pension - so I do understand the real world thank you.

you may understand the real world, but you are not in it really are you. bet you are aiming for early retirement due to sickness . and of course a final salery pension paid for by the likes of me, so go smell coffee again i think. keep up the good work,,,

Carrot's wrote:

corpamassive wrote:

Carrot's wrote:
You people (most of you) simply don't understand how tough it is to be a teacher. I am one and am currently off due to stress. Here are the facts - my salary is a mere £37000 - far less than any other professionals. Our so called holidays - are 13 weeks in TOTAL. We have no choice of when to take them and our foreign holidays are always more expensive - ie trip to Florida last year over £4k !! If I ever complain about the workload - I get accused of being a whinging teacher. What other professional would go to school every day and educate children!!! Wake up and smell the coffee please!!

can you tell me if it is true that teachers go up the pay scales just by length of service not on performance or competency?.

So you are off with stress do you get paid for being off?.

How many teachers get the full pension by going sick and getting paid off?.

Come on spill the beans.

I will try to answer your questions openly and honestly.

Of course you go up the pay scales over time - it's our right, I am a paid up member of the union so what's the problem there. If you are suggesting I am not competent then that is insulting - I dont believe there are any incompetent teachers - because they could not operate in todays tough 'inspected' world.

Of course I get paid for being off, and quite rightly. After all it was work that caused the stress.

I've no idea about the numbers getting 'paid off' - although I do confess to some hope for my own case in this respect. Being just past 50 and with 25 years in i think I deserve to retire now and contrary to popular opinion, I will be unlikely to get much more than £30k as a pension - so I do understand the real world thank you.

Playing the stress card so you get yr payoff and come back as a supply teacher.

Im afraid you are now finding out why the masses have a low opinion of your profession.

Shirkers.

THere is a simple way to reduce this skiving by teachers dock some of there pay. If they report sick they should just get paid 60% of their full salary. THat will soon focus their minds. If they are not really sick they will come in

Meagre 37k lol, just proves teachers arent in the real world.

I dare the critics here to spend 3 months in a classroom with these kids ! (Soon sort you out). There isn't enough wages in the world to cover the abuse teachers are expected to take in the name of education,and why should they take it ?

Stress, I dare the critics here to spend 3 months working in a top security prison with serial killers, murderers, convicted violent criminals etc.

Soon sort you out !

Carrot's wrote:
You people (most of you) simply don't understand how tough it is to be a teacher. I am one and am currently off due to stress. Here are the facts - my salary is a mere £37000 - far less than any other professionals. Our so called holidays - are 13 weeks in TOTAL. We have no choice of when to take them and our foreign holidays are always more expensive - ie trip to Florida last year over £4k !! If I ever complain about the workload - I get accused of being a whinging teacher. What other professional would go to school every day and educate children!!! Wake up and smell the coffee please!!

You seriously do not live in the real world. THe pay rates are in line with other professionals and other professionals do not get 3 weeks holiday and believe it or not many people get allogated the weeks they can take their holiday and do not even get a choice nor do they get to have full time pay for a part time job.

You do realise in the real world people are EXPECTED to turn up for work each day. THey cannot look out of the window and say there is a flake ofd snow so I will not go in today

Carrot's wrote:

corpamassive wrote:

Carrot's wrote: You people (most of you) simply don't understand how tough it is to be a teacher. I am one and am currently off due to stress. Here are the facts - my salary is a mere £37000 - far less than any other professionals. Our so called holidays - are 13 weeks in TOTAL. We have no choice of when to take them and our foreign holidays are always more expensive - ie trip to Florida last year over £4k !! If I ever complain about the workload - I get accused of being a whinging teacher. What other professional would go to school every day and educate children!!! Wake up and smell the coffee please!!

can you tell me if it is true that teachers go up the pay scales just by length of service not on performance or competency?. So you are off with stress do you get paid for being off?. How many teachers get the full pension by going sick and getting paid off?. Come on spill the beans.

I will try to answer your questions openly and honestly. Of course you go up the pay scales over time - it's our right, I am a paid up member of the union so what's the problem there. If you are suggesting I am not competent then that is insulting - I dont believe there are any incompetent teachers - because they could not operate in todays tough 'inspected' world. Of course I get paid for being off, and quite rightly. After all it was work that caused the stress. I've no idea about the numbers getting 'paid off' - although I do confess to some hope for my own case in this respect. Being just past 50 and with 25 years in i think I deserve to retire now and contrary to popular opinion, I will be unlikely to get much more than £30k as a pension - so I do understand the real world thank you.

"I don't believe there are any incompetent teachers".
Are you serious?
There are plenty of them about as in all professions.
Trouble is, as far as I am aware, it is almost impossible to get rid of them.
If they are found wanting they are kept on and usually retire early on ill health issues.
This situation would probably not arise in the private sector, where the person's employment would probably be terminated if he or she were not 'up to the job'.

Oh dear oh dear - Bob and Welsh Betty - you clearly haven't had to experience what I have - looks like Mervyn knows what he is talking about - I will have to pick you up on one or two points.

Bob - I am also expected to get into school - if it is snowing its no problem as I have a Range Rover - so dont tar me with that brush please. And as for pay - I'd like to see a doctor make do with my meagre £37k - who can live on that these days??? Last year our Florida holiday was our only proper hol other than a brief week in Spain in May - so we are cutting our cloth etc - and living in the real world.

Beth - schools have already got rid of the incompetent teachers - and luckily we have the union to defend those of us being victimised for so called poor performance - which is what caused my stress in the first place back in 2010. It's been tough being off work all this time but I'm muddling through.

One plea to those commenting here - write to your MP demanding us teachers get the same pay as doctors - we are worth it. And try to understand being off wih stress is serious - I cant relax even when on holiday.

Oh dear oh dear - Bob and Welsh Betty - you clearly haven't had to experience what I have - looks like Mervyn knows what he is talking about - I will have to pick you up on one or two points.

Bob - I am also expected to get into school - if it is snowing its no problem as I have a Range Rover - so dont tar me with that brush please. And as for pay - I'd like to see a doctor make do with my meagre £37k - who can live on that these days??? Last year our Florida holiday was our only proper hol other than a brief week in Spain in May - so we are cutting our cloth etc - and living in the real world.

Beth - schools have already got rid of the incompetent teachers - and luckily we have the union to defend those of us being victimised for so called poor performance - which is what caused my stress in the first place back in 2010. It's been tough being off work all this time but I'm muddling through.

One plea to those commenting here - write to your MP demanding us teachers get the same pay as doctors - we are worth it. And try to understand being off wih stress is serious - I cant relax even when on holiday.

Some of the comments posted show a total lack of knowledge of how schools and teaching staff operate within the school-education system.
Teaching is a very demanding profession and does not suit those who expect an easy ride.
To spend most of your working life in front of a class of around 30 children is extemely demanding. We also need to recognise that children can bring infection into the classroom and teachers are not totally immune to these infections.
That said. I believe that some of the teaching unions are way out of date with their demands and think that their members are untouchable. One senior full time trade union officer who had called his members out of a school on industrial action once said to me "I am here to look after the interest of my members, not the children of the school". It is shameful that this sort of 1960s TU attitude is still alive and kicking within a section of the teachers unions.

So who do you expect a union official to look after? They are there to do a job for the people who pay them as are a solicitor or doctor.

Think before engaging the typing finger mun!

This site is a source of high amusement for me. I find myself agreeing with Mervyn a lot along with Howie. Portforever, Bob and the like are my laugh of the day. I even search for the comments instead of the stories. Great fun!

On a personal note Carrots's, I hope you get well soon and thanks for what you do for our kids under stress every day. Ignore the 1% mindless clowns and enjoy your well earned retirement if you get it. We don't all think you are lazy, pathetic and idle morons.

Kev

i had sympathy for teachers before reading carrots comments and always thought it would be nice to say to children if you arent interested in learning what i am teaching then get out of the class,but reading her comments its as though she has a chip on her shoulder, if you were paid 3 times as much would there be no stress ,an extra couple of proper holidays would make it ok ,you knew the wages etc when you decided to become a teacher , dont like it do something else,and just remember that doctors have to make decisions each day that may result in life or death ,go to poland and see how much they earn

Carrot's wrote:
Oh dear oh dear - Bob and Welsh Betty - you clearly haven't had to experience what I have - looks like Mervyn knows what he is talking about - I will have to pick you up on one or two points.

Bob - I am also expected to get into school - if it is snowing its no problem as I have a Range Rover - so dont tar me with that brush please. And as for pay - I'd like to see a doctor make do with my meagre £37k - who can live on that these days??? Last year our Florida holiday was our only proper hol other than a brief week in Spain in May - so we are cutting our cloth etc - and living in the real world.

Beth - schools have already got rid of the incompetent teachers - and luckily we have the union to defend those of us being victimised for so called poor performance - which is what caused my stress in the first place back in 2010. It's been tough being off work all this time but I'm muddling through.

One plea to those commenting here - write to your MP demanding us teachers get the same pay as doctors - we are worth it. And try to understand being off wih stress is serious - I cant relax even when on holiday.

Carrot, you've totally undone any good work here. Do you really think that people are going to sympathise with your 37k salary, range rover and 2 holidays a year? I'm a teacher and in my first year I earned 21k, which was less that the teaching assistant I worked with. I've been teaching five years and still can't afford a 'big' holiday each year, let alone twice a year. You are extremely lucky and attitudes like your only serve to further undermine our profession.

I'm not certain he is a Teacher or if he is he's just a wind up merchant.

Howie' wrote:
I'm not certain he is a Teacher or if he is he's just a wind up merchant.

Well if Carrot really is a teacher I can very much imagine the type of teacher he/she is. We have so many of them in the profession - middle managers in their role solely because of the amount of time they've been teaching, earning a whole heap of money and essentially blocking the progression of up and coming teachers whilst teaching using methods twenty years out of date. Just resign and give others a chance.

yes i thought someone was maybe just winding us up also , doesnt seem to be clever enough to be a teacher.

I am apalled at the suggestions that I am a) a wind up merchant b)not clever enough to be a teacher c) extremely lucky.

This typifies the attitudes of people today about teachers.

To my colleague not satisfied with not affording a big holday - can I suggest an 'illness' in May or June whilst holidays are cheaper - maybe a bad back?

But seriously, public workers are generally undervalued and deserve to be treated better and should have better terms (salary, pension) than others because what we do is for the good of the whole community.

My ideal would be to put up taxes for everyone to cover this (but not for teachers - or other key public workers). Also - I had to work hard for my Range Rover and it casts a fortune to run. Shouldn't teachers get company cars like the police to ensure we can get to school?

Finally - I am not a middle manager, I am a simple teacher - but to Teacher1977 I am surprised at your lack of solidarity with a fellow worker - telling me to resign because I am more experienced than you!

Give the unions more bite I say...

Yawn.

Hey Carrot's: you were on to a good thing there, but took it a bit far with the Range Rover and two holidays. You'd have reeled far more (scandalised) responses if you'd toned it down a tad.

Nice effort on the alter ego though - I did enjoy reading it :-)

Clearly got too much time on your hands.

Teacher1977 wrote:
Clearly got too much time on your hands.

Teacher1977 - regrettably this is true - as mentioned above I am off with stress.

Anyway - that's the end of my contribution to this debate - I'm of skiing tomorrow for two weeks.

Bonsoir!

Gareth wrote:
Hey Carrot's: you were on to a good thing there, but took it a bit far with the Range Rover and two holidays. You'd have reeled far more (scandalised) responses if you'd toned it down a tad.

Nice effort on the alter ego though - I did enjoy reading it :-)

I don t know what you mean....

FIN

http://www.southwale
sargus.co.uk/news/10
134425.Teachers_bitt
en__punched_and_kick
ed_by_pupils__report
_shows/?ref=mr
I don't usual comment but wanted to point this story out, is it any wonder that some teachers go off with stress? Teaching has changed a lot since most of us were in school... the respect for elders (therefore teachers) has gone as has any authority teachers had.

someone120 wrote:
http://www.southwale

sargus.co.uk/news/10

134425.Teachers_bitt

en__punched_and_kick

ed_by_pupils__report

_shows/?ref=mr
I don't usual comment but wanted to point this story out, is it any wonder that some teachers go off with stress? Teaching has changed a lot since most of us were in school... the respect for elders (therefore teachers) has gone as has any authority teachers had.

Well said.

I feel sorry for teachers today - especially in comprehensive schools.
It is not their fault that rules today mean they cannot punish children as they did years ago. The world is too soft these days it has gone to the other extreme.
I was only in comprehensive school about 10 years ago in Risca comprehensive school and even as a child thought it was often too soft.

At the same time it can be argued that yes, of course class control can be down to the teacher. I can remember teachers controlling the naughty kids really well and the class running smoothly and others the same kids could not be controlled. But then that has been the same for years and same in many other careers where some people are better at different aspects of their jobs.

As a country we should be working towards improving the discipline and standars od education rather than sitting behind screens and writing negative and judgemental arguments against teachers. I worry for when I have children so the young ones need to be pro active. I think it is easy to be nagative when it isn't you dealing with issues everyday.

I mean I work in the NHS - having covered A & E, ITU etc where there are huge levels of stress everyday, where a mistake from you could end in death but it is a different type of stress. I agree that we don't get nice holidays and weekends and evenings all the time etc but we chose not to be a teacher so deal with it. I am sure some teachers go into teaching not only because they enjoy teaching, being with children and education but maybe for holidays too but that was their choice. Who are we to judge how stressful teaching is if we have never done it? I wouldn't like someone who has never worked in an A & E department on a friday nights in Cardiff and witnessed nurses being knocked out by drunks to judge how stressful our jobs as doctors, nurses,physios, HCAs etc are.

teachers need to be supported and listened to. They do often have weekends free and evenings where they spend alot of time with extra curricular activities and marking etc. There are good teachers, bad teachers, dedicated and the not so dedicated, good at controlling, not so good, good at actually teaching and not so good but there will always be those differences! - It is what makes and school a school. I learnt different things off the teachers who were not so good at controlling as the ones who were. some were so good at controlling I was scared to ask anything for fear of being told off! That is just differences in life etc.

Overall we just need to support each other and work out what is going wrong. Children need more discipline, guidance and control. Rules need to be changed, There is a massive problem in society with complaints etc. We need to be more firm! inc teachers. Make sure everything is documented and brought up if issues arise and work closer with parents. PARENTS need to take more respinsibility too.

Stop hiding behind computer screens, how many of you who write on here and express opinions ever actually work closely or speak to people directly involved in these stories posted on the argus?? if not then get involved - you must be concerned enough to comment on here so do something positive, please for the kids of the future before this country gets any worse!! It is too soft and attitudes need to be changed and we need to support all careers, teachers, NHS, police, office, everything!!!!!
I feel sorry for teachers today - especially in comprehensive schools. It is not their fault that rules today mean they cannot punish children as they did years ago. The world is too soft these days it has gone to the other extreme. I was only in comprehensive school about 10 years ago and even as a child thought it was often too soft. At the same time it can be argued that yes, of course class control can be down to the teacher. I can remember teachers controlling the naughty kids really well and the class running smoothly and others the same kids could not be controlled. But then that has been the same for years and same in many other careers where some people are better at different aspects of their jobs. As a country we should be working towards improving the discipline and standars od education rather than sitting behind screens and writing negative and judgemental arguments against teachers. I worry for when I have children so the young ones need to be pro active. I think it is easy to be nagative when it isn't you dealing with issues everyday. I mean I work in the NHS - having covered A & E, ITU etc where there are huge levels of stress everyday, where a mistake from you could end in death but it is a different type of stress. I agree that we don't get nice holidays and weekends and evenings all the time etc but we chose not to be a teacher so deal with it. I am sure some teachers go into teaching not only because they enjoy teaching, being with children and education but maybe for holidays too but that was their choice. Who are we to judge how stressful teaching is if we have never done it? I wouldn't like someone who has never worked in an A & E department on a friday nights in Cardiff and witnessed nurses being knocked out by drunks to judge how stressful our jobs as doctors, nurses,physios, HCAs etc are. teachers need to be supported and listened to. They do often have weekends free and evenings where they spend alot of time with extra curricular activities and marking etc. There are good teachers, bad teachers, dedicated and the not so dedicated, good at controlling, not so good, good at actually teaching and not so good but there will always be those differences! - It is what makes and school a school. I learnt different things off the teachers who were not so good at controlling as the ones who were. some were so good at controlling I was scared to ask anything for fear of being told off! That is just differences in life etc. Overall we just need to support each other and work out what is going wrong. Children need more discipline, guidance and control. Rules need to be changed, There is a massive problem in society with complaints etc. We need to be more firm! inc teachers. Make sure everything is documented and brought up if issues arise and work closer with parents. PARENTS need to take more respinsibility too. Stop hiding behind computer screens, how many of you who write on here and express opinions ever actually work closely or speak to people directly involved in these stories posted on the argus?? if not then get involved - you must be concerned enough to comment on here so do something positive, please for the kids of the future before this country gets any worse!! It is too soft and attitudes need to be changed and we need to support all careers, teachers, NHS, police, office, everything!!!!!

Sadly responsibility is not something our children learn from their parents, as many are irresponsible too. The attacks on our health workers, social workers, teachers, police, elderly and infirm, is a sad indictment of the state of our country. Who cares ? apparently very few do.....

Spot on Merv.

I've seen a distinct correlation between those who snipe and blame the most/loudest, and those who seem to have the most limited writing/reasoning skills.

Why do I get the impression that when certain people realise that their own lives are not all they anticipated it would be (when sciving from school when the rest of us were revising I hazard), they wake up 20 years later, realise they are still smoking in a bus shelter somewhere and decide to go online, find stories to be angry at, and snipe at others who've worked hard and got somewhere.

It's far easier to shout and blame others (teachers, social workers, foreign workers etc) than it is to put up a hand and say "yep, i had a free education and choices to make something of myself, but I wasted it."

Good point Gareth - choices. If kids were taught by parents (as they are the child's main educator) to make sound choices and decisions from a very young age then this country wouldn't be in the state it's in. For too long have we blamed others. Remember that children are in a classroom for about 25 hours a week. During that time (in the school i work in) we are expected to get through more than 36 hours of teaching. Needless to say that it is impossible. Under current legislation, teachers have to spend their time on teaching what he government deems required. There is less time than ever for lessons like PSE, citizenship and the like.

cardifflass87 wrote:
I feel sorry for teachers today - especially in comprehensive schools. It is not their fault that rules today mean they cannot punish children as they did years ago. The world is too soft these days it has gone to the other extreme. I was only in comprehensive school about 10 years ago in Risca comprehensive school and even as a child thought it was often too soft. At the same time it can be argued that yes, of course class control can be down to the teacher. I can remember teachers controlling the naughty kids really well and the class running smoothly and others the same kids could not be controlled. But then that has been the same for years and same in many other careers where some people are better at different aspects of their jobs. As a country we should be working towards improving the discipline and standars od education rather than sitting behind screens and writing negative and judgemental arguments against teachers. I worry for when I have children so the young ones need to be pro active. I think it is easy to be nagative when it isn't you dealing with issues everyday. I mean I work in the NHS - having covered A & E, ITU etc where there are huge levels of stress everyday, where a mistake from you could end in death but it is a different type of stress. I agree that we don't get nice holidays and weekends and evenings all the time etc but we chose not to be a teacher so deal with it. I am sure some teachers go into teaching not only because they enjoy teaching, being with children and education but maybe for holidays too but that was their choice. Who are we to judge how stressful teaching is if we have never done it? I wouldn't like someone who has never worked in an A & E department on a friday nights in Cardiff and witnessed nurses being knocked out by drunks to judge how stressful our jobs as doctors, nurses,physios, HCAs etc are. teachers need to be supported and listened to. They do often have weekends free and evenings where they spend alot of time with extra curricular activities and marking etc. There are good teachers, bad teachers, dedicated and the not so dedicated, good at controlling, not so good, good at actually teaching and not so good but there will always be those differences! - It is what makes and school a school. I learnt different things off the teachers who were not so good at controlling as the ones who were. some were so good at controlling I was scared to ask anything for fear of being told off! That is just differences in life etc. Overall we just need to support each other and work out what is going wrong. Children need more discipline, guidance and control. Rules need to be changed, There is a massive problem in society with complaints etc. We need to be more firm! inc teachers. Make sure everything is documented and brought up if issues arise and work closer with parents. PARENTS need to take more respinsibility too. Stop hiding behind computer screens, how many of you who write on here and express opinions ever actually work closely or speak to people directly involved in these stories posted on the argus?? if not then get involved - you must be concerned enough to comment on here so do something positive, please for the kids of the future before this country gets any worse!! It is too soft and attitudes need to be changed and we need to support all careers, teachers, NHS, police, office, everything!!!!! I feel sorry for teachers today - especially in comprehensive schools. It is not their fault that rules today mean they cannot punish children as they did years ago. The world is too soft these days it has gone to the other extreme. I was only in comprehensive school about 10 years ago and even as a child thought it was often too soft. At the same time it can be argued that yes, of course class control can be down to the teacher. I can remember teachers controlling the naughty kids really well and the class running smoothly and others the same kids could not be controlled. But then that has been the same for years and same in many other careers where some people are better at different aspects of their jobs. As a country we should be working towards improving the discipline and standars od education rather than sitting behind screens and writing negative and judgemental arguments against teachers. I worry for when I have children so the young ones need to be pro active. I think it is easy to be nagative when it isn't you dealing with issues everyday. I mean I work in the NHS - having covered A & E, ITU etc where there are huge levels of stress everyday, where a mistake from you could end in death but it is a different type of stress. I agree that we don't get nice holidays and weekends and evenings all the time etc but we chose not to be a teacher so deal with it. I am sure some teachers go into teaching not only because they enjoy teaching, being with children and education but maybe for holidays too but that was their choice. Who are we to judge how stressful teaching is if we have never done it? I wouldn't like someone who has never worked in an A & E department on a friday nights in Cardiff and witnessed nurses being knocked out by drunks to judge how stressful our jobs as doctors, nurses,physios, HCAs etc are. teachers need to be supported and listened to. They do often have weekends free and evenings where they spend alot of time with extra curricular activities and marking etc. There are good teachers, bad teachers, dedicated and the not so dedicated, good at controlling, not so good, good at actually teaching and not so good but there will always be those differences! - It is what makes and school a school. I learnt different things off the teachers who were not so good at controlling as the ones who were. some were so good at controlling I was scared to ask anything for fear of being told off! That is just differences in life etc. Overall we just need to support each other and work out what is going wrong. Children need more discipline, guidance and control. Rules need to be changed, There is a massive problem in society with complaints etc. We need to be more firm! inc teachers. Make sure everything is documented and brought up if issues arise and work closer with parents. PARENTS need to take more respinsibility too. Stop hiding behind computer screens, how many of you who write on here and express opinions ever actually work closely or speak to people directly involved in these stories posted on the argus?? if not then get involved - you must be concerned enough to comment on here so do something positive, please for the kids of the future before this country gets any worse!! It is too soft and attitudes need to be changed and we need to support all careers, teachers, NHS, police, office, everything!!!!!

Couldn't agree more.
Very good post.

Teacher1977 wrote:
Good point Gareth - choices. If kids were taught by parents (as they are the child's main educator) to make sound choices and decisions from a very young age then this country wouldn't be in the state it's in. For too long have we blamed others. Remember that children are in a classroom for about 25 hours a week. During that time (in the school i work in) we are expected to get through more than 36 hours of teaching. Needless to say that it is impossible. Under current legislation, teachers have to spend their time on teaching what he government deems required. There is less time than ever for lessons like PSE, citizenship and the like.

I don't envy you one bit T1977.

My mum was a primary school teacher thoughtout my own school life. I may not have seen her during the day, but rarely did a night go by when she wasn't in another room working on marking, planning, plans for school outings, the wording for the school play... etc.

Then there were the gymkanas, PTAs, governors meetings...

...or doing completely selfless things like working through the attic to find one of my old coats to give to an 8-yr old boy the following day so he wouldn't get bullied for wearing his mums hand-me-down coat on a school trip.

Am I hero-worshipping teachers? No. I think the wages are better than average over time (less that other graduates in the private sector though), and yes, the huge summer holidays are an anachanism from byegone days where kids needed to help the family with the harvest.

But I appreciate and respect teachers. I can't think of a better, more demanding, yet more fulfilling job than to be the one that inspires and motivates young minds.

I certainly couldn't do it, nor would wish to do it.

Gareth wrote:
Spot on Merv.

I've seen a distinct correlation between those who snipe and blame the most/loudest, and those who seem to have the most limited writing/reasoning skills.

Why do I get the impression that when certain people realise that their own lives are not all they anticipated it would be (when sciving from school when the rest of us were revising I hazard), they wake up 20 years later, realise they are still smoking in a bus shelter somewhere and decide to go online, find stories to be angry at, and snipe at others who've worked hard and got somewhere.

It's far easier to shout and blame others (teachers, social workers, foreign workers etc) than it is to put up a hand and say "yep, i had a free education and choices to make something of myself, but I wasted it."

Well said, Gareth. Spot on.

Gareth wrote:

Teacher1977 wrote: Good point Gareth - choices. If kids were taught by parents (as they are the child's main educator) to make sound choices and decisions from a very young age then this country wouldn't be in the state it's in. For too long have we blamed others. Remember that children are in a classroom for about 25 hours a week. During that time (in the school i work in) we are expected to get through more than 36 hours of teaching. Needless to say that it is impossible. Under current legislation, teachers have to spend their time on teaching what he government deems required. There is less time than ever for lessons like PSE, citizenship and the like.

I don't envy you one bit T1977. My mum was a primary school teacher thoughtout my own school life. I may not have seen her during the day, but rarely did a night go by when she wasn't in another room working on marking, planning, plans for school outings, the wording for the school play... etc. Then there were the gymkanas, PTAs, governors meetings... ...or doing completely selfless things like working through the attic to find one of my old coats to give to an 8-yr old boy the following day so he wouldn't get bullied for wearing his mums hand-me-down coat on a school trip. Am I hero-worshipping teachers? No. I think the wages are better than average over time (less that other graduates in the private sector though), and yes, the huge summer holidays are an anachanism from byegone days where kids needed to help the family with the harvest. But I appreciate and respect teachers. I can't think of a better, more demanding, yet more fulfilling job than to be the one that inspires and motivates young minds. I certainly couldn't do it, nor would wish to do it.

I think that cardifflass87 made some very good points.
The teachers today have to battle with political correctness and undisciplined children.
This was not the case in the past when the family and society were a more cohesive unit and discipline and good manners were valued.
Police, teachers and other professionals were looked up to and respected.
This doesn't appear to be the case now.
Unfortunately, I can see the situation getting progressively worse in the future.
No one seems to 'have the bottle' to
change things and say "enough is enough", let's change things around for the better.
A sad indictment on the society we live in.

Gwent does not exist. It was a failed local government experiment. Born 1974 to universal hatred. Died 1996 - SIXTEEN YEARS AGO!