‘Police officers should cover up tattoos' - Gwent Police commissioner

South Wales Argus: BODY ART: The pictured officer is not from the Gwent police service, but tattooed officers here should be forced to cover up their tattoos on duty, said Gwent Police and Crime Commissioner Ian Johnston BODY ART: The pictured officer is not from the Gwent police service, but tattooed officers here should be forced to cover up their tattoos on duty, said Gwent Police and Crime Commissioner Ian Johnston

TATTOOED officers could be forced to cover up while on duty as part of plans that Gwent’s new Police and Crime Commissioner has to boost people’s confidence in the police.

Speaking to the Argus, PCC Ian Johnston said he thought it was “wholly inappropriate” for officers to have tattoos on show while on duty.

Mr Johnston, 60, said: “It may sound old-fashioned and show my age, but it gives totally the wrong impression.

Somebody with a tattoo which covers the whole of their arm, it doesn’t reassure the public that individual is a police officer who is on their side.

“If they decide to have this body art, while they’re on duty they should cover it up.”

Mr Johnston said plans are under way to make this part of police policy.

This forms part of a wider range of plans to get people to have more faith in the force after a Home Office crime survey showed Gwent Police was the joint worst-performing force in England and Wales in a crime survey about people’s attitudes towards the police.

Only 53 per cent of 769 people asked said they agreed or strongly agreed that police deal with local concerns.

South Yorkshire Police also recorded 53 per cent.

In Dyfed Powys, 68 per cent of 788 people agreed, in North Wales it was 61 per cent of 758 people and in South Wales, 59 per cent of 727 people agreed.

The average for England and Wales was 61 per cent out of 38,107 people.

This poor performance came despite the fact that in the year to September, Gwent Police recorded the largest drop in recorded crime in England and Wales, the fifth quarter in a row the force has seen the largest or joint largest fall in overall crime, year on year.

Mr Johnston said: “This is good news, but I’m more concerned about the level of public confidence in policing in Gwent, It’s more important the public feel that the police are giving them a good professional service.

“A lot of people don’t believe in figures and my ambition is to make people safe and make them feel safe, it’s not just about crime figures.”

He said follow-ups from police officers after people report crime is important, and he and Mr Harris have been meeting community groups and individuals in order to find out about the issues they have, on which he calls officers to account.

'No point in interviews for deputy'

MR JOHNSTON defended his decision to appoint longterm colleague Paul Harris as his £52,000-a-year deputy.

Accusations of cronyism were levelled at him but Mr Johnston said Mr Harris, 54, is “somebody who can do the job and somebody I trust.”

Mr Johnston said: “To me, it’s more honest to appoint someone than go through the pretence of interviews.

In terms of time scale, getting on with the job and following the rules laid down, I thought it was the best way forward.”

He said when he made the decision to stand in June, he called Mr Harris to tell him he wanted him on his staff.

Mr Harris joined the force as a 17-year-old cadet, and patrolled in uniform in Pontypool and Cwmbran before joining CID and working in the force’s fraud squad. He retired from policing two years ago.

Mr Johnston was Mr Harris’ detective sergeant when Mr Harris was a detective constable in 1981. His appointment to deputy was approved by the Gwent police and crime panel with no objections.

Mr Harris said: “You could have gone through a charade [of interviews] and had Ian made the appointment, you would still have had the same flack.”

Mr Johnston said he and Mr Harris had been “extremely well-received”

by rank-and-file police officers and police staff and said he had a “professional relationship”

with Chief Constable Carmel Napier, whom he meets on a weekly basis.

When asked if he had a mandate with such a poor voter turnout in the PCC elections, just 14.3 per cent in Gwent, Mr Johnston said: “The reality is we’ve had the election, I’m here in the post and determined to make a real difference, whether I’ve got a mandate or not is academic, it’s here and now and we need to get on.”

COMMENT: Police boss is thorough

GWENT police and crime commissioner Ian Johnston has defended appointing former colleague Paul Harris as his deputy.

A fairly bullish Mr Johnston says it is far better he appointed someone he knows and, more importantly, trusts, than to take on some unknown after an interview. We can’t say we fully agree with this stance.

We see nothing wrong in a post being advertised, interviews taking place and the job being awarded at the end of that process. However, we appreciate Mr Johnston’s openness and honesty and his willingness to defend his policy against his critics.

We made no bones about the fact that we did not approve of the government policy to introduce PCCs.

And given the low turnout at the election we weren’t the only ones with that view.

But as Mr Johnston says, he is in post and must now be judged by his actions.

What is clear is that he is determined to make a difference.

He could have sat back and merely applauded Gwent Police for recording the largest drop in crime in England and Wales in the latest batch of statistics, but instead he has rounded on the one figure which was not so good for Gwent, covering the rates of public satisfaction.

He says the level of public confidence in the police can be just as important as results.

And we feel he may well have a point.

Comments (73)

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1:15pm Thu 7 Feb 13

33daverave says...

Police Commissioner in "I'm an out of date idiot" shocker.
Police Commissioner in "I'm an out of date idiot" shocker. 33daverave

1:18pm Thu 7 Feb 13

maud123 says...

I dont think that anyone would be bothered if a policeman had a tattoo or not if they had just been attacked or burgled! this man needs to put more police on the streets & stop faffing about! They need support not critism!
I dont think that anyone would be bothered if a policeman had a tattoo or not if they had just been attacked or burgled! this man needs to put more police on the streets & stop faffing about! They need support not critism! maud123

1:24pm Thu 7 Feb 13

Gareth says...

When it comes to factors that would bolster my confidence in the police, first on my list would be "seeing them".

"Has a a tattoo on display" is pretty much down there with "shiny shoes" and "white teeth".
When it comes to factors that would bolster my confidence in the police, first on my list would be "seeing them". "Has a a tattoo on display" is pretty much down there with "shiny shoes" and "white teeth". Gareth

1:32pm Thu 7 Feb 13

portforever says...

Nice to see the commisioner has his finger on the pulse,NOT,,,
We dont care what tatts they got as long as they do a good job and get scum off our streets.
Nice to see the commisioner has his finger on the pulse,NOT,,, We dont care what tatts they got as long as they do a good job and get scum off our streets. portforever

1:32pm Thu 7 Feb 13

Katie Re-Registered says...

Must say I can't see any reason why a police officer having a tattoo, or not, would have any effect on public confidence of their abilities. Then again, I still don't really see how having different police uniforms and dress codes for males and females - instead of the practicality orientated unisex ones that the rest of the modern world have - is somehow essential to the performance of the police either. But, hey, I guess this makes me a politically-correct scatterbrain;)!
Must say I can't see any reason why a police officer having a tattoo, or not, would have any effect on public confidence of their abilities. Then again, I still don't really see how having different police uniforms and dress codes for males and females - instead of the practicality orientated unisex ones that the rest of the modern world have - is somehow essential to the performance of the police either. But, hey, I guess this makes me a politically-correct scatterbrain;)! Katie Re-Registered

1:34pm Thu 7 Feb 13

rightsideup says...

It'll no doubt infringe on their human rights!.
It'll no doubt infringe on their human rights!. rightsideup

1:37pm Thu 7 Feb 13

spanner100 says...

What a load of "Twaddle". never mind a Tattoo JUST GET THE POLICE OUT OF THEIR COSY AIR CONDITIONED CARS AND CENTRALLY HEATED OFFICES AND BACK WALKING ON THE BEAT!!!!.
What a load of "Twaddle". never mind a Tattoo JUST GET THE POLICE OUT OF THEIR COSY AIR CONDITIONED CARS AND CENTRALLY HEATED OFFICES AND BACK WALKING ON THE BEAT!!!!. spanner100

1:53pm Thu 7 Feb 13

33daverave says...

He could also get some of the useless, overweight PCSOs to lose weight or resign.
He could also get some of the useless, overweight PCSOs to lose weight or resign. 33daverave

2:12pm Thu 7 Feb 13

Woodgnome says...

He's right. The Met Commissioner has also proposed this. Police should command respect across all society - and most older folks are unimpressed with body art - the perception is that tattoos arel part of the chavvy air head celeb culture. It also has no cost to the police budget presumably..
He's right. The Met Commissioner has also proposed this. Police should command respect across all society - and most older folks are unimpressed with body art - the perception is that tattoos arel part of the chavvy air head celeb culture. It also has no cost to the police budget presumably.. Woodgnome

2:15pm Thu 7 Feb 13

Cwmderi says...

Mr Johston previously stated that he wanted police officer to go back to wearing police helmets so the can be distigueshed from CPOs, traffic wardens and others who can easily be mistaken for real police officers.
It appears that many people do not care how police officers dress or how they present themselves, as long as they are seen policing our streets.
I for one do not agree with that view. Standards of dress code and appearnce are very important for our police, as is discipline and professionalism.
I don't want to see my local bobbies with Love & Hate tattoes on their hands, nor tattoes all over their face and necks. We can leave that to the bouncers on the doors and the likes of David Beckham and other so-called celebrities, not our front line professional police officers.
Mr Johston previously stated that he wanted police officer to go back to wearing police helmets so the can be distigueshed from CPOs, traffic wardens and others who can easily be mistaken for real police officers. It appears that many people do not care how police officers dress or how they present themselves, as long as they are seen policing our streets. I for one do not agree with that view. Standards of dress code and appearnce are very important for our police, as is discipline and professionalism. I don't want to see my local bobbies with Love & Hate tattoes on their hands, nor tattoes all over their face and necks. We can leave that to the bouncers on the doors and the likes of David Beckham and other so-called celebrities, not our front line professional police officers. Cwmderi

2:21pm Thu 7 Feb 13

fieryspartacus says...

Don't know how we managed before this commissioner came into office. How insightful!

Perhaps he can bring in a strict haircut code too, so ginger haired officers are forced to dye their barnet. And perhaps big-nosed PCs can be made to undergo rhinoplasty.

Surely he's got more important things he should be spending his time on?!
Don't know how we managed before this commissioner came into office. How insightful! Perhaps he can bring in a strict haircut code too, so ginger haired officers are forced to dye their barnet. And perhaps big-nosed PCs can be made to undergo rhinoplasty. Surely he's got more important things he should be spending his time on?! fieryspartacus

3:11pm Thu 7 Feb 13

coalpicker says...

Police would get more respect if they turned up when required rather than a week later ,or not at all .
Police would get more respect if they turned up when required rather than a week later ,or not at all . coalpicker

4:11pm Thu 7 Feb 13

Michael Weedall says...

I never heard so much rubbish from someone that supposedly got voted in by who? Tattoos, earrings, what have they got to do with being a police officer? And this Ian Johnston wants to get his priorities right and sort out front line services like when you call the police they turn up when needed and not hours, days later. I really wonder what the front line police officers think of this man and his deputy and the job they do because I would think they are fed up of them as much as the public.
I wonder how many officers have tattoos and if they let this man dictate this nonsense what other employment sectors will follow. Mr Johnston retire and enjoy life and let Carmel Napier manage Gwent Police as she was doing o.k till they introduced the PCC whatever money wasting mastermind created this position should be hung.
I never heard so much rubbish from someone that supposedly got voted in by who? Tattoos, earrings, what have they got to do with being a police officer? And this Ian Johnston wants to get his priorities right and sort out front line services like when you call the police they turn up when needed and not hours, days later. I really wonder what the front line police officers think of this man and his deputy and the job they do because I would think they are fed up of them as much as the public. I wonder how many officers have tattoos and if they let this man dictate this nonsense what other employment sectors will follow. Mr Johnston retire and enjoy life and let Carmel Napier manage Gwent Police as she was doing o.k till they introduced the PCC whatever money wasting mastermind created this position should be hung. Michael Weedall

5:39pm Thu 7 Feb 13

richie55 says...

I dont think the commissioner should be concerning himself with the way police officers dress and look. There is a rank structure in the police service. I would have thought it was the job of sergeants and inspectors to ensure the officers on ours streets look the part.
I dont think the commissioner should be concerning himself with the way police officers dress and look. There is a rank structure in the police service. I would have thought it was the job of sergeants and inspectors to ensure the officers on ours streets look the part. richie55

6:24pm Thu 7 Feb 13

D Taylor says...

Perhaps people are beginning to appreciate why we shouldn't have wanted an ex police officer in this role. He can't help himself. Things have gone to pot since his day and he wants the clock put back. No disrespect to him. He is acting as expected. If we wanted improvement and better value for money from the police we should have appointed an independent person with an active and open mind.
Perhaps people are beginning to appreciate why we shouldn't have wanted an ex police officer in this role. He can't help himself. Things have gone to pot since his day and he wants the clock put back. No disrespect to him. He is acting as expected. If we wanted improvement and better value for money from the police we should have appointed an independent person with an active and open mind. D Taylor

6:37pm Thu 7 Feb 13

Dai the Milk says...

D Taylor wrote:
Perhaps people are beginning to appreciate why we shouldn't have wanted an ex police officer in this role. He can't help himself. Things have gone to pot since his day and he wants the clock put back. No disrespect to him. He is acting as expected. If we wanted improvement and better value for money from the police we should have appointed an independent person with an active and open mind.
Absolutely. The key word being 'open'.
[quote][p][bold]D Taylor[/bold] wrote: Perhaps people are beginning to appreciate why we shouldn't have wanted an ex police officer in this role. He can't help himself. Things have gone to pot since his day and he wants the clock put back. No disrespect to him. He is acting as expected. If we wanted improvement and better value for money from the police we should have appointed an independent person with an active and open mind.[/p][/quote]Absolutely. The key word being 'open'. Dai the Milk

6:44pm Thu 7 Feb 13

welshmen says...

If that's all he can see as a policing problem in Gwent he'll need to get a white stick and guide dog....
If that's all he can see as a policing problem in Gwent he'll need to get a white stick and guide dog.... welshmen

7:16pm Thu 7 Feb 13

VoiceOfDaPort says...

My only surprise is that he hasn't been going through these comments reporting 'spam' and getting it sanitised, that's his usual trick.
My only surprise is that he hasn't been going through these comments reporting 'spam' and getting it sanitised, that's his usual trick. VoiceOfDaPort

7:40pm Thu 7 Feb 13

Magor says...

Cleaning the police cars would be a good idea,some are filthy.
Cleaning the police cars would be a good idea,some are filthy. Magor

8:02pm Thu 7 Feb 13

Dai the Milk says...

Magor wrote:
Cleaning the police cars would be a good idea,some are filthy.
That's all history, looking after equipment. Discipline is a dirty word now. Welcome to 2013, the age of live and let live.
[quote][p][bold]Magor[/bold] wrote: Cleaning the police cars would be a good idea,some are filthy.[/p][/quote]That's all history, looking after equipment. Discipline is a dirty word now. Welcome to 2013, the age of live and let live. Dai the Milk

8:27pm Thu 7 Feb 13

Desmond Tutu says...

Michael Weedall wrote:
I never heard so much rubbish from someone that supposedly got voted in by who? Tattoos, earrings, what have they got to do with being a police officer? And this Ian Johnston wants to get his priorities right and sort out front line services like when you call the police they turn up when needed and not hours, days later. I really wonder what the front line police officers think of this man and his deputy and the job they do because I would think they are fed up of them as much as the public.
I wonder how many officers have tattoos and if they let this man dictate this nonsense what other employment sectors will follow. Mr Johnston retire and enjoy life and let Carmel Napier manage Gwent Police as she was doing o.k till they introduced the PCC whatever money wasting mastermind created this position should be hung.
From reading the comments on this story it's apparent that the primary concern of the people is that the Police are visible, to be seen to have a presence on our streets to both deter crime and reassure the public. This along with his desire to see the Police return to the outdated helmet illustrate his inability to grasp exactly what the PCC should be doing - improving the quality of service to the people of Gwent!!
[quote][p][bold]Michael Weedall[/bold] wrote: I never heard so much rubbish from someone that supposedly got voted in by who? Tattoos, earrings, what have they got to do with being a police officer? And this Ian Johnston wants to get his priorities right and sort out front line services like when you call the police they turn up when needed and not hours, days later. I really wonder what the front line police officers think of this man and his deputy and the job they do because I would think they are fed up of them as much as the public. I wonder how many officers have tattoos and if they let this man dictate this nonsense what other employment sectors will follow. Mr Johnston retire and enjoy life and let Carmel Napier manage Gwent Police as she was doing o.k till they introduced the PCC whatever money wasting mastermind created this position should be hung.[/p][/quote]From reading the comments on this story it's apparent that the primary concern of the people is that the Police are visible, to be seen to have a presence on our streets to both deter crime and reassure the public. This along with his desire to see the Police return to the outdated helmet illustrate his inability to grasp exactly what the PCC should be doing - improving the quality of service to the people of Gwent!! Desmond Tutu

8:29pm Thu 7 Feb 13

P C Neilson says...

I just know I'm gonna take some heat for saying this, but since when has that ever stopped me eh?

Not all old people are wise. In fact they suck at almost everything. They are the ones making all the bad decisions, they are the ones with nothing better to do than find fault with absolutely 'everything'.

They make emergency situations out of pansy little foo-foo problems, they are are so out of touch with the world that they vote en masse (nothing better to do) against anything even slightly resembling change, sometimes out of fear, but mostly out of selfishness and resentment.

These are the doddering idiots that feel so strongly about clean cut police officers, tattoos, hoodies, dog poo, and that new fangled interwebs. They resist change so much that they would rather ban the internet, and force everybody backwards rather than make an effort to understand.

It gets worse the older they get, And you know what? I don't blame 'em. I blame us, me, society. We treat our old people with disdain and contempt. After paying into the state for way too long in their healthy lives, they become an inconvenience, they get ignored and they realise that they have become slightly invisible. So they call for authoritarian measures on every little problem that, twenty years ago, wouldn't have even been on their radar.

Tattoos? do me a favour, I want protecting from people who think that's an important issue.
I just know I'm gonna take some heat for saying this, but since when has that ever stopped me eh? Not all old people are wise. In fact they suck at almost everything. They are the ones making all the bad decisions, they are the ones with nothing better to do than find fault with absolutely 'everything'. They make emergency situations out of pansy little foo-foo problems, they are are so out of touch with the world that they vote en masse (nothing better to do) against anything even slightly resembling change, sometimes out of fear, but mostly out of selfishness and resentment. These are the doddering idiots that feel so strongly about clean cut police officers, tattoos, hoodies, dog poo, and that new fangled interwebs. They resist change so much that they would rather ban the internet, and force everybody backwards rather than make an effort to understand. It gets worse the older they get, And you know what? I don't blame 'em. I blame us, me, society. We treat our old people with disdain and contempt. After paying into the state for way too long in their healthy lives, they become an inconvenience, they get ignored and they realise that they have become slightly invisible. So they call for authoritarian measures on every little problem that, twenty years ago, wouldn't have even been on their radar. Tattoos? do me a favour, I want protecting from people who think that's an important issue. P C Neilson

8:34pm Thu 7 Feb 13

Elijah11 says...

"...DO NOT MARK YOUR SKIN WITH TATTOOS...." LEV. 19:28, THE HOLY BIBLE.
"...DO NOT MARK YOUR SKIN WITH TATTOOS...." LEV. 19:28, THE HOLY BIBLE. Elijah11

8:37pm Thu 7 Feb 13

welshmen says...

P C Neilson wrote:
I just know I'm gonna take some heat for saying this, but since when has that ever stopped me eh?

Not all old people are wise. In fact they suck at almost everything. They are the ones making all the bad decisions, they are the ones with nothing better to do than find fault with absolutely 'everything'.

They make emergency situations out of pansy little foo-foo problems, they are are so out of touch with the world that they vote en masse (nothing better to do) against anything even slightly resembling change, sometimes out of fear, but mostly out of selfishness and resentment.

These are the doddering idiots that feel so strongly about clean cut police officers, tattoos, hoodies, dog poo, and that new fangled interwebs. They resist change so much that they would rather ban the internet, and force everybody backwards rather than make an effort to understand.

It gets worse the older they get, And you know what? I don't blame 'em. I blame us, me, society. We treat our old people with disdain and contempt. After paying into the state for way too long in their healthy lives, they become an inconvenience, they get ignored and they realise that they have become slightly invisible. So they call for authoritarian measures on every little problem that, twenty years ago, wouldn't have even been on their radar.

Tattoos? do me a favour, I want protecting from people who think that's an important issue.
Nice one PC spot on....
[quote][p][bold]P C Neilson[/bold] wrote: I just know I'm gonna take some heat for saying this, but since when has that ever stopped me eh? Not all old people are wise. In fact they suck at almost everything. They are the ones making all the bad decisions, they are the ones with nothing better to do than find fault with absolutely 'everything'. They make emergency situations out of pansy little foo-foo problems, they are are so out of touch with the world that they vote en masse (nothing better to do) against anything even slightly resembling change, sometimes out of fear, but mostly out of selfishness and resentment. These are the doddering idiots that feel so strongly about clean cut police officers, tattoos, hoodies, dog poo, and that new fangled interwebs. They resist change so much that they would rather ban the internet, and force everybody backwards rather than make an effort to understand. It gets worse the older they get, And you know what? I don't blame 'em. I blame us, me, society. We treat our old people with disdain and contempt. After paying into the state for way too long in their healthy lives, they become an inconvenience, they get ignored and they realise that they have become slightly invisible. So they call for authoritarian measures on every little problem that, twenty years ago, wouldn't have even been on their radar. Tattoos? do me a favour, I want protecting from people who think that's an important issue.[/p][/quote]Nice one PC spot on.... welshmen

9:02pm Thu 7 Feb 13

Dave Angel says...

richie55 wrote:
I dont think the commissioner should be concerning himself with the way police officers dress and look. There is a rank structure in the police service. I would have thought it was the job of sergeants and inspectors to ensure the officers on ours streets look the part.
I think that is part of the problem richie55. If the Seargeants and Inspectors don't look and act the part then the rest get away with what they like.

First impressions always count and Mr Johnson has a tough job ahead of him if he is to bring Gwent Police into line.

Smarten them up, and smarten up their actions.

Get rid of CSO's and go back to basics where police officers know how to act, know how to deal with the public, know how to follow through an investigation and return to the old chief constable Mr Overs of Quality of Service.

The whole service needs a shake, give the man a chance as I believe, the more I hear of him, Mr Johnson may be the man to do it .
[quote][p][bold]richie55[/bold] wrote: I dont think the commissioner should be concerning himself with the way police officers dress and look. There is a rank structure in the police service. I would have thought it was the job of sergeants and inspectors to ensure the officers on ours streets look the part.[/p][/quote]I think that is part of the problem richie55. If the Seargeants and Inspectors don't look and act the part then the rest get away with what they like. First impressions always count and Mr Johnson has a tough job ahead of him if he is to bring Gwent Police into line. Smarten them up, and smarten up their actions. Get rid of CSO's and go back to basics where police officers know how to act, know how to deal with the public, know how to follow through an investigation and return to the old chief constable Mr Overs of Quality of Service. The whole service needs a shake, give the man a chance as I believe, the more I hear of him, Mr Johnson may be the man to do it . Dave Angel

9:17pm Thu 7 Feb 13

Woodgnome says...

P C Neilson wrote:
I just know I'm gonna take some heat for saying this, but since when has that ever stopped me eh?

Not all old people are wise. In fact they suck at almost everything. They are the ones making all the bad decisions, they are the ones with nothing better to do than find fault with absolutely 'everything'.

They make emergency situations out of pansy little foo-foo problems, they are are so out of touch with the world that they vote en masse (nothing better to do) against anything even slightly resembling change, sometimes out of fear, but mostly out of selfishness and resentment.

These are the doddering idiots that feel so strongly about clean cut police officers, tattoos, hoodies, dog poo, and that new fangled interwebs. They resist change so much that they would rather ban the internet, and force everybody backwards rather than make an effort to understand.

It gets worse the older they get, And you know what? I don't blame 'em. I blame us, me, society. We treat our old people with disdain and contempt. After paying into the state for way too long in their healthy lives, they become an inconvenience, they get ignored and they realise that they have become slightly invisible. So they call for authoritarian measures on every little problem that, twenty years ago, wouldn't have even been on their radar.

Tattoos? do me a favour, I want protecting from people who think that's an important issue.
You silly, silly man. Over 21 million of the UK population are 50 are over. This country quite rightly has laws against against age discrimination and nor are old folk all doddering idiots, living in the past or stupid. You seem to object to folks having a few principles!!

I'm afraid that you are the trivial one for such a silly rant and for making such crass comments.
[quote][p][bold]P C Neilson[/bold] wrote: I just know I'm gonna take some heat for saying this, but since when has that ever stopped me eh? Not all old people are wise. In fact they suck at almost everything. They are the ones making all the bad decisions, they are the ones with nothing better to do than find fault with absolutely 'everything'. They make emergency situations out of pansy little foo-foo problems, they are are so out of touch with the world that they vote en masse (nothing better to do) against anything even slightly resembling change, sometimes out of fear, but mostly out of selfishness and resentment. These are the doddering idiots that feel so strongly about clean cut police officers, tattoos, hoodies, dog poo, and that new fangled interwebs. They resist change so much that they would rather ban the internet, and force everybody backwards rather than make an effort to understand. It gets worse the older they get, And you know what? I don't blame 'em. I blame us, me, society. We treat our old people with disdain and contempt. After paying into the state for way too long in their healthy lives, they become an inconvenience, they get ignored and they realise that they have become slightly invisible. So they call for authoritarian measures on every little problem that, twenty years ago, wouldn't have even been on their radar. Tattoos? do me a favour, I want protecting from people who think that's an important issue.[/p][/quote]You silly, silly man. Over 21 million of the UK population are 50 are over. This country quite rightly has laws against against age discrimination and nor are old folk all doddering idiots, living in the past or stupid. You seem to object to folks having a few principles!! I'm afraid that you are the trivial one for such a silly rant and for making such crass comments. Woodgnome

9:34pm Thu 7 Feb 13

Dai the Milk says...

Just a thought. Is there a correlation between the fact that Gwent is the top force in the country as regards a fall in 'reported' crime (NOT actual crime committed mind you) and the bottom force in the country as regards people's confidence in the police? Being devil's advocate, do people have no faith in them to deal properly with or solve their crimes, so increasingly they don't bother reporting them?
Just a thought. Is there a correlation between the fact that Gwent is the top force in the country as regards a fall in 'reported' crime (NOT actual crime committed mind you) and the bottom force in the country as regards people's confidence in the police? Being devil's advocate, do people have no faith in them to deal properly with or solve their crimes, so increasingly they don't bother reporting them? Dai the Milk

9:50pm Thu 7 Feb 13

P C Neilson says...

@woodgnome. I'm not disagreeing with you, it was meant to be outrageous, then end with a bit of irony and whimsy. I will be old one day too.

Sorry if I offended you. Totally unintentional.
@woodgnome. I'm not disagreeing with you, it was meant to be outrageous, then end with a bit of irony and whimsy. I will be old one day too. Sorry if I offended you. Totally unintentional. P C Neilson

9:51pm Thu 7 Feb 13

MR DUDLEY says...

Good to see he's got his £70,000 per year finger on the pulse for restoring law and order to our streets! Twit!
Good to see he's got his £70,000 per year finger on the pulse for restoring law and order to our streets! Twit! MR DUDLEY

10:02pm Thu 7 Feb 13

D Taylor says...

Dave Angel wrote:
richie55 wrote:
I dont think the commissioner should be concerning himself with the way police officers dress and look. There is a rank structure in the police service. I would have thought it was the job of sergeants and inspectors to ensure the officers on ours streets look the part.
I think that is part of the problem richie55. If the Seargeants and Inspectors don't look and act the part then the rest get away with what they like.

First impressions always count and Mr Johnson has a tough job ahead of him if he is to bring Gwent Police into line.

Smarten them up, and smarten up their actions.

Get rid of CSO's and go back to basics where police officers know how to act, know how to deal with the public, know how to follow through an investigation and return to the old chief constable Mr Overs of Quality of Service.

The whole service needs a shake, give the man a chance as I believe, the more I hear of him, Mr Johnson may be the man to do it .
If it's as bad as you say surely Mr Johnston should start by dismissing the chief constable and replacing her with someone who he thinks can achieve his objectives. May I make it clear that I'm not personally advocating that she be dismissed but that is one of his main powers when it comes to improving efficiency. Really we are getting confused about who is in day to day charge of the police.
[quote][p][bold]Dave Angel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]richie55[/bold] wrote: I dont think the commissioner should be concerning himself with the way police officers dress and look. There is a rank structure in the police service. I would have thought it was the job of sergeants and inspectors to ensure the officers on ours streets look the part.[/p][/quote]I think that is part of the problem richie55. If the Seargeants and Inspectors don't look and act the part then the rest get away with what they like. First impressions always count and Mr Johnson has a tough job ahead of him if he is to bring Gwent Police into line. Smarten them up, and smarten up their actions. Get rid of CSO's and go back to basics where police officers know how to act, know how to deal with the public, know how to follow through an investigation and return to the old chief constable Mr Overs of Quality of Service. The whole service needs a shake, give the man a chance as I believe, the more I hear of him, Mr Johnson may be the man to do it .[/p][/quote]If it's as bad as you say surely Mr Johnston should start by dismissing the chief constable and replacing her with someone who he thinks can achieve his objectives. May I make it clear that I'm not personally advocating that she be dismissed but that is one of his main powers when it comes to improving efficiency. Really we are getting confused about who is in day to day charge of the police. D Taylor

10:10pm Thu 7 Feb 13

Woodgnome says...

P C Neilson wrote:
@woodgnome. I'm not disagreeing with you, it was meant to be outrageous, then end with a bit of irony and whimsy. I will be old one day too.

Sorry if I offended you. Totally unintentional.
Glad to see you don't disagree but your "irony and whimsy" (it was neither of these) was wasted on 21 million folk..
[quote][p][bold]P C Neilson[/bold] wrote: @woodgnome. I'm not disagreeing with you, it was meant to be outrageous, then end with a bit of irony and whimsy. I will be old one day too. Sorry if I offended you. Totally unintentional.[/p][/quote]Glad to see you don't disagree but your "irony and whimsy" (it was neither of these) was wasted on 21 million folk.. Woodgnome

10:20pm Thu 7 Feb 13

The_Vulcan says...

Gwent police shouldn't worry about tattoos, they should worry more about there naff uniforms, they look like scruff bags in there black cargo trousers and black fruit of the loom t-shirts. Tacky.
Gwent police shouldn't worry about tattoos, they should worry more about there naff uniforms, they look like scruff bags in there black cargo trousers and black fruit of the loom t-shirts. Tacky. The_Vulcan

10:20pm Thu 7 Feb 13

33daverave says...

How about seeing actual Bobbies on the beat instead of some powerless PCSO who walks around like Robocop. Every Constable I talk to says they are utterly useless.
How about seeing actual Bobbies on the beat instead of some powerless PCSO who walks around like Robocop. Every Constable I talk to says they are utterly useless. 33daverave

10:24pm Thu 7 Feb 13

Dave Angel says...

I am afraid to say D Taylor it is as bad as I say, is Mr Johnson not attempting to direct the current Chief into achieving his objectives, hence starting with tattoos.

It will ulitmately be up to Ms Napier to enforce through senior team. I fear that Ms Napier, just like any other senior manager in other organisations is not in touch with what really happens on the shop floor. I am sure she would be really pleased to know how safe a place McDonalds is to eat while her CSO's are there drinking their free coffee.

These people are paid first class wages for providing a third class service. The police service needs police officers, that uphold the law and invoke public confidence. Not people in fancy dress tweeting Gwent Police news or facebooking where they are today via Blackberry.

Mr Johnson has seen both sides inside and outside the service and does not to take the service backwards to the Dixon of Dock Green days, but take the service forward with tried and trusted standards.
I am afraid to say D Taylor it is as bad as I say, is Mr Johnson not attempting to direct the current Chief into achieving his objectives, hence starting with tattoos. It will ulitmately be up to Ms Napier to enforce through senior team. I fear that Ms Napier, just like any other senior manager in other organisations is not in touch with what really happens on the shop floor. I am sure she would be really pleased to know how safe a place McDonalds is to eat while her CSO's are there drinking their free coffee. These people are paid first class wages for providing a third class service. The police service needs police officers, that uphold the law and invoke public confidence. Not people in fancy dress tweeting Gwent Police news or facebooking where they are today via Blackberry. Mr Johnson has seen both sides inside and outside the service and does not to take the service backwards to the Dixon of Dock Green days, but take the service forward with tried and trusted standards. Dave Angel

10:43pm Thu 7 Feb 13

Woodgnome says...

33daverave wrote:
How about seeing actual Bobbies on the beat instead of some powerless PCSO who walks around like Robocop. Every Constable I talk to says they are utterly useless.
It wasn't that long ago PC's thought WPC's were "utterly useless" as well. Now, that neanderthal view seems completely ridicuous and outdated. PCSO's have a function and they should be allowed to get on with it without being undermined.
[quote][p][bold]33daverave[/bold] wrote: How about seeing actual Bobbies on the beat instead of some powerless PCSO who walks around like Robocop. Every Constable I talk to says they are utterly useless.[/p][/quote]It wasn't that long ago PC's thought WPC's were "utterly useless" as well. Now, that neanderthal view seems completely ridicuous and outdated. PCSO's have a function and they should be allowed to get on with it without being undermined. Woodgnome

10:54pm Thu 7 Feb 13

33daverave says...

Woodgnome wrote:
33daverave wrote:
How about seeing actual Bobbies on the beat instead of some powerless PCSO who walks around like Robocop. Every Constable I talk to says they are utterly useless.
It wasn't that long ago PC's thought WPC's were "utterly useless" as well. Now, that neanderthal view seems completely ridicuous and outdated. PCSO's have a function and they should be allowed to get on with it without being undermined.
PCSO are you ?
[quote][p][bold]Woodgnome[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]33daverave[/bold] wrote: How about seeing actual Bobbies on the beat instead of some powerless PCSO who walks around like Robocop. Every Constable I talk to says they are utterly useless.[/p][/quote]It wasn't that long ago PC's thought WPC's were "utterly useless" as well. Now, that neanderthal view seems completely ridicuous and outdated. PCSO's have a function and they should be allowed to get on with it without being undermined.[/p][/quote]PCSO are you ? 33daverave

11:01pm Thu 7 Feb 13

Woodgnome says...

33daverave wrote:
Woodgnome wrote:
33daverave wrote:
How about seeing actual Bobbies on the beat instead of some powerless PCSO who walks around like Robocop. Every Constable I talk to says they are utterly useless.
It wasn't that long ago PC's thought WPC's were "utterly useless" as well. Now, that neanderthal view seems completely ridicuous and outdated. PCSO's have a function and they should be allowed to get on with it without being undermined.
PCSO are you ?
Afraid not, are you an ageing PC?
[quote][p][bold]33daverave[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Woodgnome[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]33daverave[/bold] wrote: How about seeing actual Bobbies on the beat instead of some powerless PCSO who walks around like Robocop. Every Constable I talk to says they are utterly useless.[/p][/quote]It wasn't that long ago PC's thought WPC's were "utterly useless" as well. Now, that neanderthal view seems completely ridicuous and outdated. PCSO's have a function and they should be allowed to get on with it without being undermined.[/p][/quote]PCSO are you ?[/p][/quote]Afraid not, are you an ageing PC? Woodgnome

11:04pm Thu 7 Feb 13

P C Neilson says...

Woodgnome wrote:
P C Neilson wrote:
@woodgnome. I'm not disagreeing with you, it was meant to be outrageous, then end with a bit of irony and whimsy. I will be old one day too.

Sorry if I offended you. Totally unintentional.
Glad to see you don't disagree but your "irony and whimsy" (it was neither of these) was wasted on 21 million folk..
Now that IS irony. You just didn't get it.
[quote][p][bold]Woodgnome[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]P C Neilson[/bold] wrote: @woodgnome. I'm not disagreeing with you, it was meant to be outrageous, then end with a bit of irony and whimsy. I will be old one day too. Sorry if I offended you. Totally unintentional.[/p][/quote]Glad to see you don't disagree but your "irony and whimsy" (it was neither of these) was wasted on 21 million folk..[/p][/quote]Now that IS irony. You just didn't get it. P C Neilson

11:21pm Thu 7 Feb 13

gathin says...

Dear Gwent Police Plc:

1/ No tattoos.
2/ No hands in pockets.
3/ No PCSOs
4/ No steroids.
5/ Remember that you're all under oath to protect the public.
6/ Start earning your wages and look after us!

This would be a start of your long, uphill battle
to regain some confidence from the public.
Dear Gwent Police Plc: 1/ No tattoos. 2/ No hands in pockets. 3/ No PCSOs 4/ No steroids. 5/ Remember that you're all under oath to protect the public. 6/ Start earning your wages and look after us! This would be a start of your long, uphill battle to regain some confidence from the public. gathin

11:25pm Thu 7 Feb 13

P C Neilson says...

jones-i3 wrote:
Think you've all got personal, should police officers be allowed to display tattoos on duty?
Yes. In twenty years from now, no one will make character judgements by arm tattoos (they might even go out of vogue).

In the meantime it isn't an issue because the police aren't hiring people that are heavily into body art, nor are people complaining. I don't think the commissioner should be allowed to prohibit something personal like this anyway.

So yes.
[quote][p][bold]jones-i3[/bold] wrote: Think you've all got personal, should police officers be allowed to display tattoos on duty?[/p][/quote]Yes. In twenty years from now, no one will make character judgements by arm tattoos (they might even go out of vogue). In the meantime it isn't an issue because the police aren't hiring people that are heavily into body art, nor are people complaining. I don't think the commissioner should be allowed to prohibit something personal like this anyway. So yes. P C Neilson

7:46am Fri 8 Feb 13

Bommaz says...

It's the world we live in, tattoo's are very popular now, and probably serve as a good talking point when officers are trying to get through to the younger generation, what next no macho facial hair, let the police do their job and remember they are people not robots.
It's the world we live in, tattoo's are very popular now, and probably serve as a good talking point when officers are trying to get through to the younger generation, what next no macho facial hair, let the police do their job and remember they are people not robots. Bommaz

9:11am Fri 8 Feb 13

Dave Angel says...

gathin wrote:
Dear Gwent Police Plc:

1/ No tattoos.
2/ No hands in pockets.
3/ No PCSOs
4/ No steroids.
5/ Remember that you're all under oath to protect the public.
6/ Start earning your wages and look after us!

This would be a start of your long, uphill battle
to regain some confidence from the public.
Here here,

Now lets put that to a refferendum.
[quote][p][bold]gathin[/bold] wrote: Dear Gwent Police Plc: 1/ No tattoos. 2/ No hands in pockets. 3/ No PCSOs 4/ No steroids. 5/ Remember that you're all under oath to protect the public. 6/ Start earning your wages and look after us! This would be a start of your long, uphill battle to regain some confidence from the public.[/p][/quote]Here here, Now lets put that to a refferendum. Dave Angel

9:17am Fri 8 Feb 13

spice15 says...

It appears to me that we are living in a dictatorship. They all make the rules and we all have to fall in or suffer "the consequences".

Same whatever environment you work in these days, things of no importance whatsoever is a major issue.

We live in a free and open society, but many of our workplace organizations use command-and-control style.

The Appearance of a person is not an issue. What I/we look at is the professionalism of a person in the right situation.

If this issue is all Ian Johnstone has to worry about then I am worried that he is actually our Crime Commissioner..

.
It appears to me that we are living in a dictatorship. They all make the rules and we all have to fall in or suffer "the consequences". Same whatever environment you work in these days, things of no importance whatsoever is a major issue. We live in a free and open society, but many of our workplace organizations use command-and-control style. The Appearance of a person is not an issue. What I/we look at is the professionalism of a person in the right situation. If this issue is all Ian Johnstone has to worry about then I am worried that he is actually our Crime Commissioner.. . spice15

9:17am Fri 8 Feb 13

spice15 says...

It appears to me that we are living in a dictatorship. They all make the rules and we all have to fall in or suffer "the consequences".

Same whatever environment you work in these days, things of no importance whatsoever is a major issue.

We live in a free and open society, but many of our workplace organizations use command-and-control style.

The Appearance of a person is not an issue. What I/we look at is the professionalism of a person in the right situation.

If this issue is all Ian Johnstone has to worry about then I am worried that he is actually our Crime Commissioner..

.
It appears to me that we are living in a dictatorship. They all make the rules and we all have to fall in or suffer "the consequences". Same whatever environment you work in these days, things of no importance whatsoever is a major issue. We live in a free and open society, but many of our workplace organizations use command-and-control style. The Appearance of a person is not an issue. What I/we look at is the professionalism of a person in the right situation. If this issue is all Ian Johnstone has to worry about then I am worried that he is actually our Crime Commissioner.. . spice15

9:44am Fri 8 Feb 13

dalesman1666 says...

hello hello whats going on here then ?Glad to see the new guys are earning there 70k a year. Cover up your tattoos lads, No stuble, No hands in pockets, Allways carry a clean hanky, And dont pick your nose on duty. Together we can tackle crime.
hello hello whats going on here then ?Glad to see the new guys are earning there 70k a year. Cover up your tattoos lads, No stuble, No hands in pockets, Allways carry a clean hanky, And dont pick your nose on duty. Together we can tackle crime. dalesman1666

10:04am Fri 8 Feb 13

Michael Weedall says...

MR DUDLEY wrote:
Good to see he's got his £70,000 per year finger on the pulse for restoring law and order to our streets! Twit!
Dear Gwent Police Plc:

1/ No tattoos.
2/ No hands in pockets.
3/ No PCSOs
4/ No steroids.
5/ Remember that you're all under oath to protect the public.
6/ Start earning your wages and look after us!

This would be a start of your long, uphill battle
to regain some confidence from the public.

Which I think is a battle that can't be won when they waste so much money on this PCC and his deputy who from where I am sat the men should be playing golf not running a police service and leave it to the Chief Constable.

Tattoos? do me a favour, I want protecting from people who think that's an important issue.

And by the way I have respect for the frontline officers who must be struggling with the cutbacks and less officers on the street and society getting worse.
[quote][p][bold]MR DUDLEY[/bold] wrote: Good to see he's got his £70,000 per year finger on the pulse for restoring law and order to our streets! Twit![/p][/quote]Dear Gwent Police Plc: 1/ No tattoos. 2/ No hands in pockets. 3/ No PCSOs 4/ No steroids. 5/ Remember that you're all under oath to protect the public. 6/ Start earning your wages and look after us! This would be a start of your long, uphill battle to regain some confidence from the public. Which I think is a battle that can't be won when they waste so much money on this PCC and his deputy who from where I am sat the men should be playing golf not running a police service and leave it to the Chief Constable. Tattoos? do me a favour, I want protecting from people who think that's an important issue. And by the way I have respect for the frontline officers who must be struggling with the cutbacks and less officers on the street and society getting worse. Michael Weedall

10:16am Fri 8 Feb 13

Woodgnome says...

I thought the police service was a disciplined service so applicants know what they are joining. Tattoos a "fashion statement" that may pass, eh? Yes, lets dumb down not raise up. Let's permit nose rings and eye brow studs as well.- quick release safety designs so no one is hurt of course..
I thought the police service was a disciplined service so applicants know what they are joining. Tattoos a "fashion statement" that may pass, eh? Yes, lets dumb down not raise up. Let's permit nose rings and eye brow studs as well.- quick release safety designs so no one is hurt of course.. Woodgnome

2:01pm Fri 8 Feb 13

The Red Claw says...

Leave Mr Johnston alone! For all we know he may be at this very time considering doing something really radical. Maybe along the lines of Kent Police and Crime Commissioner Ann Barnes, who is currently seeking to appoint a police youth commissioner to enable young people to have at least some form of representation and voice on policing in Kent. I don't live in Kent and the post may or may not be needed and it may or may not work, however at least she is trying something different. she will also………hope you are sitting down for this one…………be paying the salary of said police youth commissioner out of her very own wages! Given sufficient time and experience she will probably even get around to tackling other issues as well, such as tattoos, hats and crime reduction percentages.
Leave Mr Johnston alone! For all we know he may be at this very time considering doing something really radical. Maybe along the lines of Kent Police and Crime Commissioner Ann Barnes, who is currently seeking to appoint a police youth commissioner to enable young people to have at least some form of representation and voice on policing in Kent. I don't live in Kent and the post may or may not be needed and it may or may not work, however at least she is trying something different. she will also………hope you are sitting down for this one…………be paying the salary of said police youth commissioner out of her very own wages! Given sufficient time and experience she will probably even get around to tackling other issues as well, such as tattoos, hats and crime reduction percentages. The Red Claw

2:06pm Fri 8 Feb 13

nolongergullible says...

My son has tattoo`s. When he works in Arab countries he has to cover his arms to avoid inflaming muslim sensibilities. Is there a hidden agenda at work here?
My son has tattoo`s. When he works in Arab countries he has to cover his arms to avoid inflaming muslim sensibilities. Is there a hidden agenda at work here? nolongergullible

5:01pm Fri 8 Feb 13

Dave Angel says...

nolongergullible wrote:
My son has tattoo`s. When he works in Arab countries he has to cover his arms to avoid inflaming muslim sensibilities. Is there a hidden agenda at work here?
No hidden agenda, just keeping up standards. On a personal level I dislike tattoos, however I am not suggesting they be banned. I also dont believe that Mr Johnston is suggesting that you cant be a police officer, nor be professional if you have a tattoo.

Your son has tattoos and fully accepts that when working in Arab countries they should be covered. Has anybody suggested your son does not act in a professional manner ?. I am certain he does and abides by the rules put in place to represent his employer to a high degree. Whats the great difference ?.

If you are a Police Officer you should present a smart, presentable image to the public, hence tattoo away to your hearts content, however, while in work cover them up.
[quote][p][bold]nolongergullible[/bold] wrote: My son has tattoo`s. When he works in Arab countries he has to cover his arms to avoid inflaming muslim sensibilities. Is there a hidden agenda at work here?[/p][/quote]No hidden agenda, just keeping up standards. On a personal level I dislike tattoos, however I am not suggesting they be banned. I also dont believe that Mr Johnston is suggesting that you cant be a police officer, nor be professional if you have a tattoo. Your son has tattoos and fully accepts that when working in Arab countries they should be covered. Has anybody suggested your son does not act in a professional manner ?. I am certain he does and abides by the rules put in place to represent his employer to a high degree. Whats the great difference ?. If you are a Police Officer you should present a smart, presentable image to the public, hence tattoo away to your hearts content, however, while in work cover them up. Dave Angel

5:36pm Fri 8 Feb 13

cath 872 says...

Perhaps police officers should have " I must serve the public" tatooed on their foreheads. They should get out of their cars, lose weight, walk the beat. Get rid of the PCSO's or whatever they call them.
Seriously, does anyone care if police officers have tattoos? It would be nice if we just saw them out and about every now and then.....
Perhaps police officers should have " I must serve the public" tatooed on their foreheads. They should get out of their cars, lose weight, walk the beat. Get rid of the PCSO's or whatever they call them. Seriously, does anyone care if police officers have tattoos? It would be nice if we just saw them out and about every now and then..... cath 872

5:48pm Fri 8 Feb 13

Cloth Head says...

Very interesting debate about tattoos. It has to be said that some tattoos I have seen are controversial. Would you as a rape victim feel comfortable sat in front of an officer displaying a naked woman on his/her arm. Skulls and other death related tattoos are also common. I do not advocate checking every Officers or CSO arms, legs, neck etc.. but how do you ensure an effective and confident service to a "victim" when displaying sometimes graphic images. Easy...no problem with your tattoo but can you please cover it whilst you patrol not to cause "possible" offence. Doesn't seem alot to ask/enforce.
Very interesting debate about tattoos. It has to be said that some tattoos I have seen are controversial. Would you as a rape victim feel comfortable sat in front of an officer displaying a naked woman on his/her arm. Skulls and other death related tattoos are also common. I do not advocate checking every Officers or CSO arms, legs, neck etc.. but how do you ensure an effective and confident service to a "victim" when displaying sometimes graphic images. Easy...no problem with your tattoo but can you please cover it whilst you patrol not to cause "possible" offence. Doesn't seem alot to ask/enforce. Cloth Head

6:41pm Fri 8 Feb 13

Anne teak says...

CEO's and that's roughly what he is, move in, do some small stuff then start doing major stuff around the four month mark.

Tattoos and helmets are just small stuff.

He needs to be given a chance to start performing within six months.
CEO's and that's roughly what he is, move in, do some small stuff then start doing major stuff around the four month mark. Tattoos and helmets are just small stuff. He needs to be given a chance to start performing within six months. Anne teak

8:34pm Fri 8 Feb 13

Dai the Milk says...

So I take it we won't be recruiting any Maoris for the foreseeable future.
So I take it we won't be recruiting any Maoris for the foreseeable future. Dai the Milk

1:50am Sat 9 Feb 13

alongfortheride says...

Come on folks... lets be serious, you don't see em with tattoos on their hands and faces, a few tatts doesn't deter from professionalism. I've met cops with tattoos who are awesome, in touch and really want to make a difference. I seen those without, out of touch, lazy and can't be bothered.

If I was a victim the last thing I would be worried about was tattoos. If they were professional, understanding and strong enough to stand up to the bad guys i'ld stand behind them all the way.

Good and bad in all I say, but understanding that in a society that promotes freedom of expression etc I can't see the problem as long as they are not offensive.
Come on folks... lets be serious, you don't see em with tattoos on their hands and faces, a few tatts doesn't deter from professionalism. I've met cops with tattoos who are awesome, in touch and really want to make a difference. I seen those without, out of touch, lazy and can't be bothered. If I was a victim the last thing I would be worried about was tattoos. If they were professional, understanding and strong enough to stand up to the bad guys i'ld stand behind them all the way. Good and bad in all I say, but understanding that in a society that promotes freedom of expression etc I can't see the problem as long as they are not offensive. alongfortheride

9:08am Sat 9 Feb 13

frostybox says...

BRING ROBOCOP BACK!!!!!!!!! NO TATOOS/NO BULLSH:? T!!!!!
BRING ROBOCOP BACK!!!!!!!!! NO TATOOS/NO BULLSH:? T!!!!! frostybox

9:26am Sat 9 Feb 13

P C Neilson says...

frostybox wrote:
BRING ROBOCOP BACK!!!!!!!!! NO TATOOS/NO BULLSH:? T!!!!!
Best movie ever!
[quote][p][bold]frostybox[/bold] wrote: BRING ROBOCOP BACK!!!!!!!!! NO TATOOS/NO BULLSH:? T!!!!![/p][/quote]Best movie ever! P C Neilson

12:20pm Sat 9 Feb 13

nolongergullible says...

Back in the old days many officers were ex-serviceman and had their regimental and ship tattoos on their arms. These served to give a sense of gravitas, when they suggested a course of action, people tended to comply. No-one suggested that these men should cover up their arms, nor was their integrity questioned. Who is the victim in this matter? The public want a competent officer, the bosses want an honest, reliable worker. I do not care about tattoos. I do care about the closing police stations, the dearth of visible patrols, both mobile and on foot. On behalf of the police I care about the continuing volume of administration, the election of an extra tier of management with the lowest mandate of any public post. I care that the first thing that is done by such a person with such a small degree of public support. There are bigger battles to fight, not such a piffling fancy. Show us the value of the role, if there is one!
Back in the old days many officers were ex-serviceman and had their regimental and ship tattoos on their arms. These served to give a sense of gravitas, when they suggested a course of action, people tended to comply. No-one suggested that these men should cover up their arms, nor was their integrity questioned. Who is the victim in this matter? The public want a competent officer, the bosses want an honest, reliable worker. I do not care about tattoos. I do care about the closing police stations, the dearth of visible patrols, both mobile and on foot. On behalf of the police I care about the continuing volume of administration, the election of an extra tier of management with the lowest mandate of any public post. I care that the first thing that is done by such a person with such a small degree of public support. There are bigger battles to fight, not such a piffling fancy. Show us the value of the role, if there is one! nolongergullible

7:59pm Sat 9 Feb 13

GrumpyOM says...

So is this why we vote for a police commissionner? Is appearance more important than performance? If, God forbid, I ever should need the assistance of an officer I really woudn't care if he sported a tattoo as long as he gets the job done. What of the human rights of the officers? How long before Brussels decides they have been infringed, come on Police Federation stand up for your members. Will the same code of conduct be applied to the other uniformed (armed forces) I think not!
So is this why we vote for a police commissionner? Is appearance more important than performance? If, God forbid, I ever should need the assistance of an officer I really woudn't care if he sported a tattoo as long as he gets the job done. What of the human rights of the officers? How long before Brussels decides they have been infringed, come on Police Federation stand up for your members. Will the same code of conduct be applied to the other uniformed (armed forces) I think not! GrumpyOM

10:53pm Sat 9 Feb 13

mist59 says...

So pcc Ian Johnston thinks it's “wholly inappropriate” for officers to have tattoos on show while on duty.
He goes on further to say “It may sound old-fashioned and show my age, but it gives totally the wrong impression".
Mr Johnston, you're only 60, but I will agree with you in the fact that you are old fashioned.....very old fashioned in fact.
These people do a job respectful of what they have on their arms, don't forget they are human beings.....just like you and I
So pcc Ian Johnston thinks it's “wholly inappropriate” for officers to have tattoos on show while on duty. He goes on further to say “It may sound old-fashioned and show my age, but it gives totally the wrong impression". Mr Johnston, you're only 60, but I will agree with you in the fact that you are old fashioned.....very old fashioned in fact. These people do a job respectful of what they have on their arms, don't forget they are human beings.....just like you and I mist59

11:28pm Sat 9 Feb 13

gathin says...

True but if you're going to go into a job paid for by the tax-payer you should except that public opinion should have a say in your job!
This is indeed revelationary as Npt town council ( and other environ councils) are also publically paid and they don't listen to a word the public say even if it results in a lack of public confidence.
The fuzz should not have tattoos on show when they're on-duty?
I agree. What do you think this is? A fashion parade? If you are a copper with forearm tatts just wear long sleeves! It'll come out of the public purse anyway- won't it?
True but if you're going to go into a job paid for by the tax-payer you should except that public opinion should have a say in your job! This is indeed revelationary as Npt town council ( and other environ councils) are also publically paid and they don't listen to a word the public say even if it results in a lack of public confidence. The fuzz should not have tattoos on show when they're on-duty? I agree. What do you think this is? A fashion parade? If you are a copper with forearm tatts just wear long sleeves! It'll come out of the public purse anyway- won't it? gathin

9:28am Sun 10 Feb 13

Woodgnome says...

The debate seems divided. There are folks who are right like me and then the others who are wrong!

Ps. Soldiers used to have service/ regimental tattoos as a demo of pride in their units. Now they are ghastly "body art" ergo - naff fashion statements.
The debate seems divided. There are folks who are right like me and then the others who are wrong! Ps. Soldiers used to have service/ regimental tattoos as a demo of pride in their units. Now they are ghastly "body art" ergo - naff fashion statements. Woodgnome

12:43pm Sun 10 Feb 13

Cloth Head says...

GrumpyOM wrote:
So is this why we vote for a police commissionner? Is appearance more important than performance? If, God forbid, I ever should need the assistance of an officer I really woudn't care if he sported a tattoo as long as he gets the job done. What of the human rights of the officers? How long before Brussels decides they have been infringed, come on Police Federation stand up for your members. Will the same code of conduct be applied to the other uniformed (armed forces) I think not!
I agree that performance should always outweigh appearance. But I would add just imagine being the victim of Rape or serious assault and sat in front you is an officer sporting naked bodies or skulls, daggers etc... They are the Police..and whilst you personally may not care do you really speak for everyone. For your information I woudn't care either but I would hate to think some victim or young child does not open up due to such images. I really dont think it alot to ask to cover up. Human rights..yeah thats where this should end up..god forbid.
[quote][p][bold]GrumpyOM[/bold] wrote: So is this why we vote for a police commissionner? Is appearance more important than performance? If, God forbid, I ever should need the assistance of an officer I really woudn't care if he sported a tattoo as long as he gets the job done. What of the human rights of the officers? How long before Brussels decides they have been infringed, come on Police Federation stand up for your members. Will the same code of conduct be applied to the other uniformed (armed forces) I think not![/p][/quote]I agree that performance should always outweigh appearance. But I would add just imagine being the victim of Rape or serious assault and sat in front you is an officer sporting naked bodies or skulls, daggers etc... They are the Police..and whilst you personally may not care do you really speak for everyone. For your information I woudn't care either but I would hate to think some victim or young child does not open up due to such images. I really dont think it alot to ask to cover up. Human rights..yeah thats where this should end up..god forbid. Cloth Head

4:31pm Sun 10 Feb 13

Dee-Gee says...

Bit torn on this one. Yes, in an ideal world, people wouldn't make judgements about the officers based on whether or not they had tattoos and it wouldn't be an issue. Unfortunately, people do make judgements of others based on all kinds of ridiculous things.

Used car salesmen are expected to cover the tats when working, so that people will trust them enough to buy a car off them. Surely we can expect the same degree of consideration from our police officers as is expected from used car salesmen?
Bit torn on this one. Yes, in an ideal world, people wouldn't make judgements about the officers based on whether or not they had tattoos and it wouldn't be an issue. Unfortunately, people do make judgements of others based on all kinds of ridiculous things. Used car salesmen are expected to cover the tats when working, so that people will trust them enough to buy a car off them. Surely we can expect the same degree of consideration from our police officers as is expected from used car salesmen? Dee-Gee

7:26pm Sun 10 Feb 13

P C Neilson says...

Well there we go then, problem solved.
Officers should just use their better judgement in sensitive situations, and we should trust them not to parade offensive tats where it might send the the wrong message.

What, like they already do you mean! . . . Madness.

Sheesh kebabs! Got there in the end.
Well there we go then, problem solved. Officers should just use their better judgement in sensitive situations, and we should trust them not to parade offensive tats where it might send the the wrong message. What, like they already do you mean! . . . Madness. Sheesh kebabs! Got there in the end. P C Neilson

8:02pm Sun 10 Feb 13

Dai the Milk says...

Is David Beckham untrustworthy then, following all the above logic?
Is David Beckham untrustworthy then, following all the above logic? Dai the Milk

8:17am Mon 11 Feb 13

Woodgnome says...

Dai the Milk wrote:
Is David Beckham untrustworthy then, following all the above logic?
You've missed the point Dai. He doesn't have to "police" the public and maybe arrest them and give evidence though does he? He and his wife are part of the naff celeb culture others try to copy.
[quote][p][bold]Dai the Milk[/bold] wrote: Is David Beckham untrustworthy then, following all the above logic?[/p][/quote]You've missed the point Dai. He doesn't have to "police" the public and maybe arrest them and give evidence though does he? He and his wife are part of the naff celeb culture others try to copy. Woodgnome

10:35am Mon 11 Feb 13

Cwmderi says...

Dai the Milk wrote:
Is David Beckham untrustworthy then, following all the above logic?
It is exactly the likes of Beckham and his Posh wife and celebs that send the wrong messages out to young impressinable people by encouraging them to use their bodies as nothing more than 'graffiti' walls.
There is nothing wrong with Police officers having discrete or meaningful tatoos but I support the view that they should cover any inappropriate body art that might cause offence to the public that they serve.
[quote][p][bold]Dai the Milk[/bold] wrote: Is David Beckham untrustworthy then, following all the above logic?[/p][/quote]It is exactly the likes of Beckham and his Posh wife and celebs that send the wrong messages out to young impressinable people by encouraging them to use their bodies as nothing more than 'graffiti' walls. There is nothing wrong with Police officers having discrete or meaningful tatoos but I support the view that they should cover any inappropriate body art that might cause offence to the public that they serve. Cwmderi

11:20am Mon 11 Feb 13

rhinestine says...

There are loads of Police with tatoos, on roids, and some even have gold teeth like some legalised gangster!

Does not reflect the right image i say, they look like the thugs they are supposed to be protecting us from!

Perhaps some of them are thugs or just want to "look hard" and fit in with the criminals, after all, the police are as nice as pie to the low life, as they don't want any bother from them.
There are loads of Police with tatoos, on roids, and some even have gold teeth like some legalised gangster! Does not reflect the right image i say, they look like the thugs they are supposed to be protecting us from! Perhaps some of them are thugs or just want to "look hard" and fit in with the criminals, after all, the police are as nice as pie to the low life, as they don't want any bother from them. rhinestine

11:52am Mon 11 Feb 13

Jedi Master Katarn says...

Jedi Master Katarn says...
11:49am Mon 11 Feb 13

One word to Ian Johnston - PREJUDICE!

That type of negative social stereotyping is exactly what the police should be preventing and setting an example against.

Just because a person is male or female, black or white, Christian or Muslim, straight or gay, young or old, tall or short, disabled or not, etc does not mean they have a greater or lesser ability to do their job so why does having a tattoo?

The police should be actively seeking to break the social stigmas upon these issues not creating more of a problem.

Oh look I have a hood on my top therefore I must be a thug with an ASBO and drinking problem not a Jedi Master!
Jedi Master Katarn says... 11:49am Mon 11 Feb 13 One word to Ian Johnston - PREJUDICE! That type of negative social stereotyping is exactly what the police should be preventing and setting an example against. Just because a person is male or female, black or white, Christian or Muslim, straight or gay, young or old, tall or short, disabled or not, etc does not mean they have a greater or lesser ability to do their job so why does having a tattoo? The police should be actively seeking to break the social stigmas upon these issues not creating more of a problem. Oh look I have a hood on my top therefore I must be a thug with an ASBO and drinking problem not a Jedi Master! Jedi Master Katarn

4:44pm Tue 12 Feb 13

oldbert says...

Aren't coppers supposed to be on duty 24/7??
So if they gotta do something whilst not in work i guess they'll have to cover up first!!
Aren't coppers supposed to be on duty 24/7?? So if they gotta do something whilst not in work i guess they'll have to cover up first!! oldbert

10:52am Thu 14 Feb 13

KarmaSuitsYa says...

When's the next election? I think I may break the habit of a lifetime and turn up to vote this numpty out.
When's the next election? I think I may break the habit of a lifetime and turn up to vote this numpty out. KarmaSuitsYa

5:43pm Mon 18 Feb 13

ShankRiley says...

No visible tattoos is a common practice with most law enforcement agencies. My cousin is a police officer in the U.S. and he has forearm tattoos which he covers up with Ink Armor: http://www.tat2x.com Most military professionals have to cover up as well. I have tattoos as well and I'm required to cover up as well. I work in retail sales.
No visible tattoos is a common practice with most law enforcement agencies. My cousin is a police officer in the U.S. and he has forearm tattoos which he covers up with Ink Armor: http://www.tat2x.com Most military professionals have to cover up as well. I have tattoos as well and I'm required to cover up as well. I work in retail sales. ShankRiley

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