Caerphilly councillor says hospital plans should be put to referendum (From South Wales Argus)

The way to force a local referendum on the issue of A & E facilities at Ystrad Mynach Hospital is simple:

A petition has to be served of a local Town or Community Council, seeking a referendum, by a group of residents.

The Town or Community Council has to hold a public meeting to discuss the issue, if the council agrees with the petitioners request for a referendum it must refer the matter to the Caerphilly Borough Council, or, whichever Council in which the Community or town Council are located, it is on that Councils Authority a referendum is held, or not.

A simple local process. Nothing to do with the Welsh Assembly, and in any case the results of such referendum are not ` binding`. But it would really galvanize the mind of all local elected members and force them to decide, `on the public record` where they stand on the current ` diluted` public service this new £172 million pound health facility provides for the tax and ratepayers of the area.

Trefor wrote:
The way to force a local referendum on the issue of A & E facilities at Ystrad Mynach Hospital is simple: A petition has to be served of a local Town or Community Council, seeking a referendum, by a group of residents. The Town or Community Council has to hold a public meeting to discuss the issue, if the council agrees with the petitioners request for a referendum it must refer the matter to the Caerphilly Borough Council, or, whichever Council in which the Community or town Council are located, it is on that Councils Authority a referendum is held, or not. A simple local process. Nothing to do with the Welsh Assembly, and in any case the results of such referendum are not ` binding`. But it would really galvanize the mind of all local elected members and force them to decide, `on the public record` where they stand on the current ` diluted` public service this new £172 million pound health facility provides for the tax and ratepayers of the area.

Well researched but you missed a bit. It must be in an issue within the perview of the relevant local authority. Health is not so they cannot legally spend money allocated to their responsibilities commenting on something they have no responsibility for. Not wishing to be trite but as a planning authoirity they could hold a vote on Tesco V Sainsburys with more validity.

On the issue I understand and respect Cllr Davies concerns but this is not about money it is about quality. Not that I have the slightest objection to taxes going up to put even more money into the NHS for an even better service. YYF would not have the footfall to maintain the necessary skills and experience in the staff and patients would suffer.

Community care, minor injuries, GP services and a pletora of other health services are best delivered in multiple local venues (including at home), but critical care for those with serious acute conditions need large busy hospitals. This is an area where big really is beautiful. How easy it is to get there for people who are not the patient is an distraction. The patient must come first and the patient needs someone who has undertaken the procedure they need twice this month, not twice in their career.

`On the inside? makes a point in relation to my statement, which, appears to dismiss a Local Referendum on the subject of the absence of A & E services at Ystrad Mynach Hospital, to do so, this contributor says as it is not a local government issue the Caerphilly Council have no authority to undertake such a referendum and it is not in their power to do so WRONG, the Local Government Act is quite clear on the matter, and if the process I outlined is followed, it only takes 10 Citizens to trigger such an event, and the issue was one which " Such a referendum issue promoted Well-Being in their area" (the area for the sake of this debate being the Caerphilly County borough Area) the `well-being` is of course the health provision of its local citizens, then they have the power to hold such a referendum.

The cost of the referendum or its considered `proportionality` to other issue of local concern is, as always, a matter for the Caerphilly council, but both those consideration or neither of them should be a deciding factor when considering the wishes of its constituents, the result these local referendums is not binding on any authority, but it gives the citizens a local snapshot of which local movers and shakers support them, over to you, ` on the inside`?

Trefor wrote:
`On the inside? makes a point in relation to my statement, which, appears to dismiss a Local Referendum on the subject of the absence of A & E services at Ystrad Mynach Hospital, to do so, this contributor says as it is not a local government issue the Caerphilly Council have no authority to undertake such a referendum and it is not in their power to do so WRONG, the Local Government Act is quite clear on the matter, and if the process I outlined is followed, it only takes 10 Citizens to trigger such an event, and the issue was one which " Such a referendum issue promoted Well-Being in their area" (the area for the sake of this debate being the Caerphilly County borough Area) the `well-being` is of course the health provision of its local citizens, then they have the power to hold such a referendum. The cost of the referendum or its considered `proportionality` to other issue of local concern is, as always, a matter for the Caerphilly council, but both those consideration or neither of them should be a deciding factor when considering the wishes of its constituents, the result these local referendums is not binding on any authority, but it gives the citizens a local snapshot of which local movers and shakers support them, over to you, ` on the inside`?

You may be correct but I do not think so. I believe legal advice would be that it was not proper use of local authority funds.

In any event, what would be the point. If it is yet another tired attempt to slag of all councillors then it is childish. If it is a genuine attempt to change health policy it will also be totally pointless. If the councill wasted taxpayers money on a vote and 100% participated and 100% voted the way you want, the Health board are still not required to even comment let alone change their plans.

Choose your targets more carefully. If you want a vote, you pay for it.

Where did councillor Ray Davies get the population figure of 200,000 for Caerphilly residents who do not have A&E cover?
The total population of Caerphilly county borough is about 170,000 with about 60,000 of these already being served by the Royal Gwent. People from Risca, Pontymister, Crosskeys, Abercarn, Cwmcarn, Newbridge, Ynysddu, Cwmfelynfach,etc have traditionally used the Gwent and continue to do so.

On the inside: You give me far too much credit.

The holding of a referendum is not my idea, it not particularly something I support, and it certainly not something I have supported or encouraged in my comments, but, when you warn about the `cost` of such referendum you are doing democracy a serious dis-service.

The fact that the Local Government Act considers this process to one which enables the citizens to be empowered is laudable and not a matter to be discouraged by you or me, in fact that is a consideration which would be applied by the relevant local authorities Elected Members when debating such a proposal, they and only they have the ` authority` in this process, and to prejudge that consideration is a step too far.

The democratic process has to be preserved, and as I have outlined in a previous comment, the Local Government Act states that `cost` nor ` proportionality`, of the issue contained in any petition for any proposed referendum would be a block to such a petition. This process is,easy, simple, and does not presuppose any `problem` of cost or proportionality consequences.

Trefor wrote:
On the inside: You give me far too much credit. The holding of a referendum is not my idea, it not particularly something I support, and it certainly not something I have supported or encouraged in my comments, but, when you warn about the `cost` of such referendum you are doing democracy a serious dis-service. The fact that the Local Government Act considers this process to one which enables the citizens to be empowered is laudable and not a matter to be discouraged by you or me, in fact that is a consideration which would be applied by the relevant local authorities Elected Members when debating such a proposal, they and only they have the ` authority` in this process, and to prejudge that consideration is a step too far. The democratic process has to be preserved, and as I have outlined in a previous comment, the Local Government Act states that `cost` nor ` proportionality`, of the issue contained in any petition for any proposed referendum would be a block to such a petition. This process is,easy, simple, and does not presuppose any `problem` of cost or proportionality consequences.

A far cheaper option, if you insist on getting the opinion of people it has nothing to do with, would be to ask your local councillor to put a motion of support on the agenda for the next meeting. No real cost, same result. As for the views of the local population, I agree they should be heard. They of will be when they vote for thier AM. They are the ones who can do something about this issue. I am sure we both hope the turnout is rather better than the usual apathy.

On the Inside Said:

"A far cheaper option, if you insist on getting the opinion of people it has nothing to do with, would be to ask your local councillor to put a motion of support on the agenda for the next meeting. No real cost, same result. As for the views of the local population, I agree they should be heard. They of will be when they vote for thier AM. They are the ones who can do something about this issue. I am sure we both hope the turnout is rather better than the usual apathy."

Clearly you still consider the ` Cost` implication of a referendum?, the Law Covering referendum discounts such considerations: you also appear to think that elected members would give the same ` balanced` consideration to a simple motion put be a member, as it would `need` to give to a referendum ` vote`, that assumption is clearly deluded. The weight put behind a yes vote in a referendum would clearly have more ` clout` than the Council simply supporting a motion put by another Councillor, that is exactly the reason for, and the value of Referendum.

Sorry, I have lost patience with this nonsense. You may think Councillors are more influenced by lots of people shouting than reasoned debate, I know different. I do not believe it is right to waste taxpayers money on a referendum that cannot possibly produce any change in policy because it is nothing to do with the local authority.

Effective democracy is one thing. Wasting public money just to assuage your, frankly deluded, concept of democracy is another.

Clearly I have made my point well.On The Inside whoever you are?.

Loosing patience, confusing democratic process with ` People Shouting` and your failure to accept that this issue has everything to do with the well being of local citizens is the stuff of a person frightened of a democratic voice for all citizens.

I rest my case.