Wales still worst in UK in global school tests

South Wales Argus: Wales still worst in UK in global school tests Wales still worst in UK in global school tests

WALES is still the worst performing UK nation for maths, science and reading, according to an international league table released today.

Every three years the Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA) surveys around half a million students from across 65 countries which are part of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD).

Can you do the PISA test? Try it here by clicking the link at the foot of the page.

The last series of tests, which took place in 2009 and were wholly separate from standard exams such as GCSEs, focused on reading and ranked the UK 25th behind Denmark, France, Ireland, Germany, Liechtenstein, Estonia, Poland and Korea.

In 2009 Wales rated the lowest of the UK nations in reading, maths and science.

Three years on, with the emphasis on maths, Welsh PISA test results for maths and science in 2012 were worse than 2009, but reading had improved slightly.

England had improved in all three categories, while Scotland improved in both maths and reading but dipped in science, and Northern Ireland also performed worse in all three categories.

The UK average has either remained the same or improved in maths, reading and science, but the UK is now ranked 26th among OECD countries in the 2012 performance table.

Speaking at a meeting of the Institute of Welsh Affairs Gwent branch in Cross Keys last week, the director of school standards in Welsh Government, Dr Brett Pugh said of the Welsh education system: “I agree, it’s a system that’s not performing as well as it should.”

Yesterday the Conservative shadow minister for education Angela Burns AM claimed the results would determine whether Labour is on course to meet its 2015 target of Wales being in the top 20 of all OECD nations.

Robert Lloyd Griffiths, director of the Institute of Directors (IOD) in Wales described the results as “bitterly disappointing” and blamed historic complacency in the UK.

Education and Skills Minister Huw Lewis said the results were "disappointing" and showed Wales still "got a way to go before we close the gap with the OECD’s best performing countries".

He added: "There are signs of some progress in reading, but significant improvement was never likely at this stage.

"Everybody working in and around the Welsh Education sector needs to take a long hard look in the mirror this week. The PISA results are stark and the message is very clear, we must improve educational attainment and standards right across the board.

"I am confident that the measures we’ve put in place since the last set of PISA results are the right way forward for Wales and we won’t be distracted from delivering them. Today’s news simply reinforces our case for the ambitious reforms we have already developed and everyone across the education sector in Wales now needs to play their part."

LIVE COVERAGE OF REACTION TO WALES' PISA RESULTS: Can you do the PISA test? Try it here

Comments (31)

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12:57pm Tue 3 Dec 13

Dave on his Soapbox says...

…one of the main reasons we continue to languish….is….as with health…..policing etc etc….it is run by politian’s obsessed by stats….and when something is deemed to not to be producing the necessary improvement….these organisations are continually re-organised and then given a new set of measures….and as with all performance measures…people work the ‘system’ to give the best stats….which unfortunately does not necessarily equate to an improved service.

What is needed is a longer period of stability…where best practice etc…..can be allowed to provide a long term improvement….free of ‘party’ political interference….whic
h is driven by popularist headlines….
…one of the main reasons we continue to languish….is….as with health…..policing etc etc….it is run by politian’s obsessed by stats….and when something is deemed to not to be producing the necessary improvement….these organisations are continually re-organised and then given a new set of measures….and as with all performance measures…people work the ‘system’ to give the best stats….which unfortunately does not necessarily equate to an improved service. What is needed is a longer period of stability…where best practice etc…..can be allowed to provide a long term improvement….free of ‘party’ political interference….whic h is driven by popularist headlines…. Dave on his Soapbox

1:01pm Tue 3 Dec 13

p stani says...

No surprise really,my sons homework from school consists of learning about anything that is not british and green rubbish.
No surprise really,my sons homework from school consists of learning about anything that is not british and green rubbish. p stani

1:07pm Tue 3 Dec 13

Anne teak says...

This is not a surprise. Schools are run on political lines, rather than for pupils.

Children must conform to group-think, rather than be individuals. 'Team building' is more important developing their own ideas.

Incompetent teachers are never sacked. Teachers don't seem to turn up for a quarter if the lessons. Lessons are cancelled with no reason....That's the A level year.

The work is not marked properly. Spellings not checked. Maths not explained. They are just supposed to 'go and find out' themselves'..so that let's teachers off the hook very nicely.

If children wear boots on a rainy day, or have dyed hair.... that's a major transgression... Because it apparently stops them from thinking or learning,

Compared to how the teachers are disrespecting children, it's nothing.

It's quite shocking how badly schools serve the children.

And if the Assembly could fiddle these figures, you know that it would.
This is not a surprise. Schools are run on political lines, rather than for pupils. Children must conform to group-think, rather than be individuals. 'Team building' is more important developing their own ideas. Incompetent teachers are never sacked. Teachers don't seem to turn up for a quarter if the lessons. Lessons are cancelled with no reason....That's the A level year. The work is not marked properly. Spellings not checked. Maths not explained. They are just supposed to 'go and find out' themselves'..so that let's teachers off the hook very nicely. If children wear boots on a rainy day, or have dyed hair.... that's a major transgression... Because it apparently stops them from thinking or learning, Compared to how the teachers are disrespecting children, it's nothing. It's quite shocking how badly schools serve the children. And if the Assembly could fiddle these figures, you know that it would. Anne teak

1:20pm Tue 3 Dec 13

Bobevans says...

This should ring alarm bells. In England they improved on all three, Not as much as is needed but at least they are going in the right direction. In Wales we are going backwards and getting worse

One needs to consider that this will explain at least in part as to why Wales economy continues to under perform that of the rest of the UK, There is almost an acceptance that low standard are fine. It applies to Education, Economy & NHS amongst others

We have a very low standard or politicians at both the assembly and local councils and this will also play a key part in Wales underperformance

We just have to consider the Newport Redevelopment and the new bus station fiasco's to see just how low the standard of our politicians are

The above would be ideal use of the power to recall an MP or Local Councillor where the electorate found they were seriously failing
This should ring alarm bells. In England they improved on all three, Not as much as is needed but at least they are going in the right direction. In Wales we are going backwards and getting worse One needs to consider that this will explain at least in part as to why Wales economy continues to under perform that of the rest of the UK, There is almost an acceptance that low standard are fine. It applies to Education, Economy & NHS amongst others We have a very low standard or politicians at both the assembly and local councils and this will also play a key part in Wales underperformance We just have to consider the Newport Redevelopment and the new bus station fiasco's to see just how low the standard of our politicians are The above would be ideal use of the power to recall an MP or Local Councillor where the electorate found they were seriously failing Bobevans

2:00pm Tue 3 Dec 13

Woodgnome says...

Unfortunately the children rule at school backed by their parents. The lowest achiever drags the lot down. Too many weak teachers are unable to get the children to do anything or else they get 2 fingers back. Parents and teachers have low expectations and so their expectations are met. Parents will even go to school are try and knock the teachers block off if little Johnny is upset.
Unfortunately the children rule at school backed by their parents. The lowest achiever drags the lot down. Too many weak teachers are unable to get the children to do anything or else they get 2 fingers back. Parents and teachers have low expectations and so their expectations are met. Parents will even go to school are try and knock the teachers block off if little Johnny is upset. Woodgnome

2:42pm Tue 3 Dec 13

Grüngemüse says...

How bad do things have to get before they acknowledge the elephant in the room. I refer, of course, to Welsh language policies. This is an extra burden that does not apply in the rest of the UK. All the promises of huge advantages have proved empty.
This is not the only problem but it doesn't help.
Speak to any teacher and they will tell you that behaviour is a major problem.
You have to have some sympathy for the teachers as they are undermined at every turn.
How bad do things have to get before they acknowledge the elephant in the room. I refer, of course, to Welsh language policies. This is an extra burden that does not apply in the rest of the UK. All the promises of huge advantages have proved empty. This is not the only problem but it doesn't help. Speak to any teacher and they will tell you that behaviour is a major problem. You have to have some sympathy for the teachers as they are undermined at every turn. Grüngemüse

3:11pm Tue 3 Dec 13

bodlondon says...

To omay teachers in Wales are complacent and have no experience outside of education and are afraid of inovation and being measured
They are used to producing factory fodder and don't champion achievement
Often thisis replicated at home with parents who don't value education and learning
Excellent teachers leave Wales or leave the profession
Successive governments over the past 30 years have treated both education and the health service as a political football and the ones who suffer are the children and the patients
To omay teachers in Wales are complacent and have no experience outside of education and are afraid of inovation and being measured They are used to producing factory fodder and don't champion achievement Often thisis replicated at home with parents who don't value education and learning Excellent teachers leave Wales or leave the profession Successive governments over the past 30 years have treated both education and the health service as a political football and the ones who suffer are the children and the patients bodlondon

4:05pm Tue 3 Dec 13

corpardguy says...

Wales has been lagging for some years now and its a major reason why local investment from major companies, both home and international, is also lagging/non-existent
.
There either very few or no more "factory fodder" jobs to be had without a good standard of education look forward to being poor and /or being on the fringes of the criminal class.
Poor education equals increasing social services requirements and petty crime together with a sharp reduction in the means to pay for any services (see Detroit in the US now filing for bankruptcy!).
Education does not just affect the individual, it affects the whole community and its standards across the board.
I whole- heartedly agree with a couple of the posts about schools/education being a political football and good teachers not getting the right sort of support, but will leaving the schools to the educators be a good enough solution. Its obvious the politicians should be taken out of the actual syllabus and methods of teaching, but they do have a role in making sure the right amount and type of equipment is in place. Parents come into this equation too. whether they like it or not, and if little Johnny doesn't show up for class they should be taken to task and punished as should inefficient teachers and politicians.
This will not be fixed overnight but the present system is failing both the pupils and the educators in it, and badly too.
Wales has been lagging for some years now and its a major reason why local investment from major companies, both home and international, is also lagging/non-existent . There either very few or no more "factory fodder" jobs to be had without a good standard of education look forward to being poor and /or being on the fringes of the criminal class. Poor education equals increasing social services requirements and petty crime together with a sharp reduction in the means to pay for any services (see Detroit in the US now filing for bankruptcy!). Education does not just affect the individual, it affects the whole community and its standards across the board. I whole- heartedly agree with a couple of the posts about schools/education being a political football and good teachers not getting the right sort of support, but will leaving the schools to the educators be a good enough solution. Its obvious the politicians should be taken out of the actual syllabus and methods of teaching, but they do have a role in making sure the right amount and type of equipment is in place. Parents come into this equation too. whether they like it or not, and if little Johnny doesn't show up for class they should be taken to task and punished as should inefficient teachers and politicians. This will not be fixed overnight but the present system is failing both the pupils and the educators in it, and badly too. corpardguy

4:43pm Tue 3 Dec 13

Grüngemüse says...

How bad do things have to get before they acknowledge the elephant in the room, I refer of course to Welsh language policies. David Dimbleby commented a few years ago that the only thing that seems to matter in Wales is the old language.

Despite the authorities diverting disproportionate resources to Welsh Medium schools, who then dump their failures on the English medium sector, the Welsh medium schools barely keep up with the English medium schools.

However they spin it compulsory welsh lessons and the mandatory welsh GCSEs divert resources and effort from other subjects.

WAKE UP WALES !
How bad do things have to get before they acknowledge the elephant in the room, I refer of course to Welsh language policies. David Dimbleby commented a few years ago that the only thing that seems to matter in Wales is the old language. Despite the authorities diverting disproportionate resources to Welsh Medium schools, who then dump their failures on the English medium sector, the Welsh medium schools barely keep up with the English medium schools. However they spin it compulsory welsh lessons and the mandatory welsh GCSEs divert resources and effort from other subjects. WAKE UP WALES ! Grüngemüse

5:43pm Tue 3 Dec 13

Realist UK says...

Wales spends less on per pupil ratio than England. You only get what you pay for.
Wales spends less on per pupil ratio than England. You only get what you pay for. Realist UK

6:17pm Tue 3 Dec 13

Frankfurt says...

Bobevans wrote:
This should ring alarm bells. In England they improved on all three, Not as much as is needed but at least they are going in the right direction. In Wales we are going backwards and getting worse

One needs to consider that this will explain at least in part as to why Wales economy continues to under perform that of the rest of the UK, There is almost an acceptance that low standard are fine. It applies to Education, Economy & NHS amongst others

We have a very low standard or politicians at both the assembly and local councils and this will also play a key part in Wales underperformance

We just have to consider the Newport Redevelopment and the new bus station fiasco's to see just how low the standard of our politicians are

The above would be ideal use of the power to recall an MP or Local Councillor where the electorate found they were seriously failing
Although the results are worrying from a Welsh viewpoint and we must try harder, Wales improved in reading from 476 to 480. So it's too much of a generalisation just to say that Wales' performance is getting worse. In 2 areas it is worse, in one area it is better. For England all 3 are better but the improvement is very marginal, just 1 point for science and 2 points for maths.

It would be helpful if we knew more about the sampling technique adopted and whether this truly leads to a fair comparison. Only a small proportion of students aged 15 sat the tests. The results depend very much on how this sample was selected.
[quote][p][bold]Bobevans[/bold] wrote: This should ring alarm bells. In England they improved on all three, Not as much as is needed but at least they are going in the right direction. In Wales we are going backwards and getting worse One needs to consider that this will explain at least in part as to why Wales economy continues to under perform that of the rest of the UK, There is almost an acceptance that low standard are fine. It applies to Education, Economy & NHS amongst others We have a very low standard or politicians at both the assembly and local councils and this will also play a key part in Wales underperformance We just have to consider the Newport Redevelopment and the new bus station fiasco's to see just how low the standard of our politicians are The above would be ideal use of the power to recall an MP or Local Councillor where the electorate found they were seriously failing[/p][/quote]Although the results are worrying from a Welsh viewpoint and we must try harder, Wales improved in reading from 476 to 480. So it's too much of a generalisation just to say that Wales' performance is getting worse. In 2 areas it is worse, in one area it is better. For England all 3 are better but the improvement is very marginal, just 1 point for science and 2 points for maths. It would be helpful if we knew more about the sampling technique adopted and whether this truly leads to a fair comparison. Only a small proportion of students aged 15 sat the tests. The results depend very much on how this sample was selected. Frankfurt

6:46pm Tue 3 Dec 13

Llanmartinangel says...

Grüngemüse wrote:
How bad do things have to get before they acknowledge the elephant in the room, I refer of course to Welsh language policies. David Dimbleby commented a few years ago that the only thing that seems to matter in Wales is the old language.

Despite the authorities diverting disproportionate resources to Welsh Medium schools, who then dump their failures on the English medium sector, the Welsh medium schools barely keep up with the English medium schools.

However they spin it compulsory welsh lessons and the mandatory welsh GCSEs divert resources and effort from other subjects.

WAKE UP WALES !
Spot on.
[quote][p][bold]Grüngemüse[/bold] wrote: How bad do things have to get before they acknowledge the elephant in the room, I refer of course to Welsh language policies. David Dimbleby commented a few years ago that the only thing that seems to matter in Wales is the old language. Despite the authorities diverting disproportionate resources to Welsh Medium schools, who then dump their failures on the English medium sector, the Welsh medium schools barely keep up with the English medium schools. However they spin it compulsory welsh lessons and the mandatory welsh GCSEs divert resources and effort from other subjects. WAKE UP WALES ![/p][/quote]Spot on. Llanmartinangel

9:12pm Tue 3 Dec 13

Bobevans says...

There are a whole raft of issues at play. We have in many cases poor teachers. We have parents and pupils that do not see education as important
We have the left wing liberal approach that no one should be seen to fail or b e treated differently so you have classes with students that don't speak English and Special needs pupils. All that this does is drag standard down
Another big problem is a poor curriculum as well as dumbed down exams so that every one can be seen to pass
There are a whole raft of issues at play. We have in many cases poor teachers. We have parents and pupils that do not see education as important We have the left wing liberal approach that no one should be seen to fail or b e treated differently so you have classes with students that don't speak English and Special needs pupils. All that this does is drag standard down Another big problem is a poor curriculum as well as dumbed down exams so that every one can be seen to pass Bobevans

9:12pm Tue 3 Dec 13

endthelies says...

bodlondon wrote:
To omay teachers in Wales are complacent and have no experience outside of education and are afraid of inovation and being measured
They are used to producing factory fodder and don't champion achievement
Often thisis replicated at home with parents who don't value education and learning
Excellent teachers leave Wales or leave the profession
Successive governments over the past 30 years have treated both education and the health service as a political football and the ones who suffer are the children and the patients
I think the opposite to that. I think schools are only interested in the high achievers because they look good on their stats. It is the children who have poor reading skills etc that are overlooked and not encouraged. Having said that, the teachers in the comprehensives have a hard job with some pupils and they are not allowed to discipline in any effective way. They need more back up from the government to deal with the unruly students. Reading, writing and maths has taken a back seat over the years in favour of other subjects when I think that they should be first and foremost. If the three r's aren't properly in place by secondary school, those kids have no chance of progressing in comp.
[quote][p][bold]bodlondon[/bold] wrote: To omay teachers in Wales are complacent and have no experience outside of education and are afraid of inovation and being measured They are used to producing factory fodder and don't champion achievement Often thisis replicated at home with parents who don't value education and learning Excellent teachers leave Wales or leave the profession Successive governments over the past 30 years have treated both education and the health service as a political football and the ones who suffer are the children and the patients[/p][/quote]I think the opposite to that. I think schools are only interested in the high achievers because they look good on their stats. It is the children who have poor reading skills etc that are overlooked and not encouraged. Having said that, the teachers in the comprehensives have a hard job with some pupils and they are not allowed to discipline in any effective way. They need more back up from the government to deal with the unruly students. Reading, writing and maths has taken a back seat over the years in favour of other subjects when I think that they should be first and foremost. If the three r's aren't properly in place by secondary school, those kids have no chance of progressing in comp. endthelies

9:15pm Tue 3 Dec 13

Bobevans says...

Some more detail here. The questions should not really strain you brain at all

A 10 year old should be able to do them in my view

http://www.oecd.org/
pisa/test/form/
Some more detail here. The questions should not really strain you brain at all A 10 year old should be able to do them in my view http://www.oecd.org/ pisa/test/form/ Bobevans

11:52pm Tue 3 Dec 13

Outthere says...

This does not surprise me at all, both my children went to 6th form, I was amazed that teachers do not turn up and the schools do not have t supply a stand in, they are left to get on by themselves. My oldest was very focused and was able to do this and achieved good results, with hardly any tuition by the school,I say she self taught. My youngest was not so lucky, she left Primary with good reusults, but the Comprehensive soon changed that, teachers not turning up and the ones that did were not interested in teaching, one would even share her text messages to the class, pot calling the kettle black comes o mind there, how can you get respect from the pupils when you flaunt the rules yourself, my daughter ended up not going back to do the second year of sixth form, she is now at college and enjoying it, the teachers takes their mobiles from students if they are found to be on in class and will not tolerate lateness. Teachers that do not turn up or do not perform by getting good results them they need to be put on a teaching plan, if they have not improved within 6 weeks then the school should have the option to get rid of them, some of you may think 6 weeks is not long, but its long enough when your children's future is at stake. Schools should also abide by the rules that they state when you look at the schools during open evening. Rant over.
This does not surprise me at all, both my children went to 6th form, I was amazed that teachers do not turn up and the schools do not have t supply a stand in, they are left to get on by themselves. My oldest was very focused and was able to do this and achieved good results, with hardly any tuition by the school,I say she self taught. My youngest was not so lucky, she left Primary with good reusults, but the Comprehensive soon changed that, teachers not turning up and the ones that did were not interested in teaching, one would even share her text messages to the class, pot calling the kettle black comes o mind there, how can you get respect from the pupils when you flaunt the rules yourself, my daughter ended up not going back to do the second year of sixth form, she is now at college and enjoying it, the teachers takes their mobiles from students if they are found to be on in class and will not tolerate lateness. Teachers that do not turn up or do not perform by getting good results them they need to be put on a teaching plan, if they have not improved within 6 weeks then the school should have the option to get rid of them, some of you may think 6 weeks is not long, but its long enough when your children's future is at stake. Schools should also abide by the rules that they state when you look at the schools during open evening. Rant over. Outthere

8:21am Wed 4 Dec 13

Mervyn James says...

Wales has 5 out of 9 in the worst equality areas in the UK. So not only are we poor and thick, we hate each other too....
Wales has 5 out of 9 in the worst equality areas in the UK. So not only are we poor and thick, we hate each other too.... Mervyn James

8:35am Wed 4 Dec 13

Dai Rear says...

Realist UK wrote:
Wales spends less on per pupil ratio than England. You only get what you pay for.
Experience in the NHS suggests "more tax pounds=better service" is fallacious. Moreover it is stretching the imagination to believe that former Soviet countries with better results, like the Baltic states, spend more than UK. No, I don't think you're right Realist.
"Wales has 5 out of 9 in the worst equality areas in the UK. So not only are we poor and thick, we hate each other too...." The majority of Chinese and Indians are very poor but ...
[quote][p][bold]Realist UK[/bold] wrote: Wales spends less on per pupil ratio than England. You only get what you pay for.[/p][/quote]Experience in the NHS suggests "more tax pounds=better service" is fallacious. Moreover it is stretching the imagination to believe that former Soviet countries with better results, like the Baltic states, spend more than UK. No, I don't think you're right Realist. "Wales has 5 out of 9 in the worst equality areas in the UK. So not only are we poor and thick, we hate each other too...." The majority of Chinese and Indians are very poor but ... Dai Rear

8:49am Wed 4 Dec 13

Woodgnome says...

Most of the problem is not the schools or the funding but the children being led to believe they are inviolate promulgated by the low expectations and non-supervision of their parents. Without parents support all is lost.
Most of the problem is not the schools or the funding but the children being led to believe they are inviolate promulgated by the low expectations and non-supervision of their parents. Without parents support all is lost. Woodgnome

9:18am Wed 4 Dec 13

fedupjon says...

These results have been expected by the education powers in Wales and they should be ashamed.
For many years they have rejoiced in improved GCSE results year on year when the reality is completely the opposite.
One of the major areas of concern is the funding of education in Wales. It is reported that in Wales, each pupil receives £600 per year less than its counterpart in England. Until this is addressed you will never see the improvements required.
These results have been expected by the education powers in Wales and they should be ashamed. For many years they have rejoiced in improved GCSE results year on year when the reality is completely the opposite. One of the major areas of concern is the funding of education in Wales. It is reported that in Wales, each pupil receives £600 per year less than its counterpart in England. Until this is addressed you will never see the improvements required. fedupjon

1:05pm Wed 4 Dec 13

Frankfurt says...

Perhaps surprisingly the OECD could not find any correlation between the amount spent per pupil and the test results. Some countries which spent much less than the USA produced markedly better results than the Americans did. They did find a fairly strong correlation between poor results and low social/economic status and therein may lie a clue to the cause of our problem
Perhaps surprisingly the OECD could not find any correlation between the amount spent per pupil and the test results. Some countries which spent much less than the USA produced markedly better results than the Americans did. They did find a fairly strong correlation between poor results and low social/economic status and therein may lie a clue to the cause of our problem Frankfurt

12:28am Thu 5 Dec 13

corpardguy says...

More money in the school system may not be the answer but more money in the pay-packet maybe.
More affluent societies and parents tend to think more about what their children need to succeed better than themselves. However if you are classed as losers and have low self esteem then even thinking about better education doesn't even appear on the radar. Where is the next meal/beer/rent money ? becomes the be all and end all.
Guess who gets the good jobs................
........Educated people!
How long has the SE of England been top of earnings and education?
How long has Wales been bottom in both categories?
Following on from that thoughtLook at the emigration stats for Scotland, Ireland and Wales, The best and brightest have been leaving for centuries.
More money in the school system may not be the answer but more money in the pay-packet maybe. More affluent societies and parents tend to think more about what their children need to succeed better than themselves. However if you are classed as losers and have low self esteem then even thinking about better education doesn't even appear on the radar. Where is the next meal/beer/rent money ? becomes the be all and end all. Guess who gets the good jobs................ ........Educated people! How long has the SE of England been top of earnings and education? How long has Wales been bottom in both categories? Following on from that thoughtLook at the emigration stats for Scotland, Ireland and Wales, The best and brightest have been leaving for centuries. corpardguy

10:38am Thu 5 Dec 13

Cymru Am Beth says...

Bobevans wrote:
There are a whole raft of issues at play. We have in many cases poor teachers. We have parents and pupils that do not see education as important
We have the left wing liberal approach that no one should be seen to fail or b e treated differently so you have classes with students that don't speak English and Special needs pupils. All that this does is drag standard down
Another big problem is a poor curriculum as well as dumbed down exams so that every one can be seen to pass
Welcome to the Socialist utopia of Wales
[quote][p][bold]Bobevans[/bold] wrote: There are a whole raft of issues at play. We have in many cases poor teachers. We have parents and pupils that do not see education as important We have the left wing liberal approach that no one should be seen to fail or b e treated differently so you have classes with students that don't speak English and Special needs pupils. All that this does is drag standard down Another big problem is a poor curriculum as well as dumbed down exams so that every one can be seen to pass[/p][/quote]Welcome to the Socialist utopia of Wales Cymru Am Beth

4:33pm Thu 5 Dec 13

BassalegCountyFan says...

On a national level, why don't we remove the charitable status on private schools so that they pay their fair share like the rest of us to improve the education of the majority. Just a thought.
On a national level, why don't we remove the charitable status on private schools so that they pay their fair share like the rest of us to improve the education of the majority. Just a thought. BassalegCountyFan

10:45am Fri 6 Dec 13

_Bryan_ says...

Stop wasting classroom time teaching kids Welsh and you'll soon see a climb up the ratings.
Stop wasting classroom time teaching kids Welsh and you'll soon see a climb up the ratings. _Bryan_

8:53pm Sat 7 Dec 13

Teacher1977 says...

'Teachers not turning up'?

I'd ask people saying this to explain what they mean please.
'Teachers not turning up'? I'd ask people saying this to explain what they mean please. Teacher1977

9:51am Mon 9 Dec 13

Llanmartinangel says...

BassalegCountyFan wrote:
On a national level, why don't we remove the charitable status on private schools so that they pay their fair share like the rest of us to improve the education of the majority. Just a thought.
Wouldn't that mean that the fees would go up in private schools? If less people could afford them you'd have to find places for them in the state system with the attendent additional cost so it's just pointless. The people paying twice for their kids education (they pay their taxes too) aren't what's wrong with failing state schools.
[quote][p][bold]BassalegCountyFan[/bold] wrote: On a national level, why don't we remove the charitable status on private schools so that they pay their fair share like the rest of us to improve the education of the majority. Just a thought.[/p][/quote]Wouldn't that mean that the fees would go up in private schools? If less people could afford them you'd have to find places for them in the state system with the attendent additional cost so it's just pointless. The people paying twice for their kids education (they pay their taxes too) aren't what's wrong with failing state schools. Llanmartinangel

11:08am Mon 9 Dec 13

BassalegCountyFan says...

Llanmartinangel wrote:
BassalegCountyFan wrote:
On a national level, why don't we remove the charitable status on private schools so that they pay their fair share like the rest of us to improve the education of the majority. Just a thought.
Wouldn't that mean that the fees would go up in private schools? If less people could afford them you'd have to find places for them in the state system with the attendent additional cost so it's just pointless. The people paying twice for their kids education (they pay their taxes too) aren't what's wrong with failing state schools.
Actually we - the taxpayers - effectively lose £100 million a year to subsidise the charitable status of private schools. Bearing in mind that only 7% of children in Britain attend these schools, can we really afford to give wealthy parents who send their children to such institutions what equates to a £200 a year tax subsidy? More so, do private schools behave like charities to justify this status? I don't think so.
It's daft beyond belief.

Perhaps we could put that £100 million towards something more useful - reintroducing EMA. Perhaps average PISA scores would rise if large numbers of children- that's those who are part of the whopping 93% whose mummies and daddies can't afford to splash ther cash on a posh education - didn't have to worry about costs of travelling to school, purchasing books etc. Just a thought!
[quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BassalegCountyFan[/bold] wrote: On a national level, why don't we remove the charitable status on private schools so that they pay their fair share like the rest of us to improve the education of the majority. Just a thought.[/p][/quote]Wouldn't that mean that the fees would go up in private schools? If less people could afford them you'd have to find places for them in the state system with the attendent additional cost so it's just pointless. The people paying twice for their kids education (they pay their taxes too) aren't what's wrong with failing state schools.[/p][/quote]Actually we - the taxpayers - effectively lose £100 million a year to subsidise the charitable status of private schools. Bearing in mind that only 7% of children in Britain attend these schools, can we really afford to give wealthy parents who send their children to such institutions what equates to a £200 a year tax subsidy? More so, do private schools behave like charities to justify this status? I don't think so. It's daft beyond belief. Perhaps we could put that £100 million towards something more useful - reintroducing EMA. Perhaps average PISA scores would rise if large numbers of children- that's those who are part of the whopping 93% whose mummies and daddies can't afford to splash ther cash on a posh education - didn't have to worry about costs of travelling to school, purchasing books etc. Just a thought! BassalegCountyFan

12:14pm Mon 9 Dec 13

Llanmartinangel says...

BassalegCountyFan wrote:
Llanmartinangel wrote:
BassalegCountyFan wrote:
On a national level, why don't we remove the charitable status on private schools so that they pay their fair share like the rest of us to improve the education of the majority. Just a thought.
Wouldn't that mean that the fees would go up in private schools? If less people could afford them you'd have to find places for them in the state system with the attendent additional cost so it's just pointless. The people paying twice for their kids education (they pay their taxes too) aren't what's wrong with failing state schools.
Actually we - the taxpayers - effectively lose £100 million a year to subsidise the charitable status of private schools. Bearing in mind that only 7% of children in Britain attend these schools, can we really afford to give wealthy parents who send their children to such institutions what equates to a £200 a year tax subsidy? More so, do private schools behave like charities to justify this status? I don't think so.
It's daft beyond belief.

Perhaps we could put that £100 million towards something more useful - reintroducing EMA. Perhaps average PISA scores would rise if large numbers of children- that's those who are part of the whopping 93% whose mummies and daddies can't afford to splash ther cash on a posh education - didn't have to worry about costs of travelling to school, purchasing books etc. Just a thought!
All the people I know who send their kids to fee schools, both parents work and make sacrifices to afford it. They choose to prioritise their children's education over other things. Good for them. The idea that all of them have mansions and shoot grouse is outdated class warrior tripe.
[quote][p][bold]BassalegCountyFan[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BassalegCountyFan[/bold] wrote: On a national level, why don't we remove the charitable status on private schools so that they pay their fair share like the rest of us to improve the education of the majority. Just a thought.[/p][/quote]Wouldn't that mean that the fees would go up in private schools? If less people could afford them you'd have to find places for them in the state system with the attendent additional cost so it's just pointless. The people paying twice for their kids education (they pay their taxes too) aren't what's wrong with failing state schools.[/p][/quote]Actually we - the taxpayers - effectively lose £100 million a year to subsidise the charitable status of private schools. Bearing in mind that only 7% of children in Britain attend these schools, can we really afford to give wealthy parents who send their children to such institutions what equates to a £200 a year tax subsidy? More so, do private schools behave like charities to justify this status? I don't think so. It's daft beyond belief. Perhaps we could put that £100 million towards something more useful - reintroducing EMA. Perhaps average PISA scores would rise if large numbers of children- that's those who are part of the whopping 93% whose mummies and daddies can't afford to splash ther cash on a posh education - didn't have to worry about costs of travelling to school, purchasing books etc. Just a thought![/p][/quote]All the people I know who send their kids to fee schools, both parents work and make sacrifices to afford it. They choose to prioritise their children's education over other things. Good for them. The idea that all of them have mansions and shoot grouse is outdated class warrior tripe. Llanmartinangel

12:53pm Mon 9 Dec 13

BassalegCountyFan says...

Llanmartinangel wrote:
BassalegCountyFan wrote:
Llanmartinangel wrote:
BassalegCountyFan wrote:
On a national level, why don't we remove the charitable status on private schools so that they pay their fair share like the rest of us to improve the education of the majority. Just a thought.
Wouldn't that mean that the fees would go up in private schools? If less people could afford them you'd have to find places for them in the state system with the attendent additional cost so it's just pointless. The people paying twice for their kids education (they pay their taxes too) aren't what's wrong with failing state schools.
Actually we - the taxpayers - effectively lose £100 million a year to subsidise the charitable status of private schools. Bearing in mind that only 7% of children in Britain attend these schools, can we really afford to give wealthy parents who send their children to such institutions what equates to a £200 a year tax subsidy? More so, do private schools behave like charities to justify this status? I don't think so.
It's daft beyond belief.

Perhaps we could put that £100 million towards something more useful - reintroducing EMA. Perhaps average PISA scores would rise if large numbers of children- that's those who are part of the whopping 93% whose mummies and daddies can't afford to splash ther cash on a posh education - didn't have to worry about costs of travelling to school, purchasing books etc. Just a thought!
All the people I know who send their kids to fee schools, both parents work and make sacrifices to afford it. They choose to prioritise their children's education over other things. Good for them. The idea that all of them have mansions and shoot grouse is outdated class warrior tripe.
I'm afraid I don't know anyone who sent their children to fee-paying schools (I don't think they'd want to lower themselves to associate with serfs like myself!) so can't comment. I'm sure some are hard-working (if misguided) people. The real issue though, is why we should subsidise the charity status on their schools at the expense of the education of the non-private school educated majority.
And as for 'outdated tripe', check out the recent ramblings of old Etonian Boris Johnson on how inequality exists because of the low IQ's of the masses (before failing a basic IQ test a few days later). I bet his mam and dad would be proud of the thousands they splashed on his education!
[quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BassalegCountyFan[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BassalegCountyFan[/bold] wrote: On a national level, why don't we remove the charitable status on private schools so that they pay their fair share like the rest of us to improve the education of the majority. Just a thought.[/p][/quote]Wouldn't that mean that the fees would go up in private schools? If less people could afford them you'd have to find places for them in the state system with the attendent additional cost so it's just pointless. The people paying twice for their kids education (they pay their taxes too) aren't what's wrong with failing state schools.[/p][/quote]Actually we - the taxpayers - effectively lose £100 million a year to subsidise the charitable status of private schools. Bearing in mind that only 7% of children in Britain attend these schools, can we really afford to give wealthy parents who send their children to such institutions what equates to a £200 a year tax subsidy? More so, do private schools behave like charities to justify this status? I don't think so. It's daft beyond belief. Perhaps we could put that £100 million towards something more useful - reintroducing EMA. Perhaps average PISA scores would rise if large numbers of children- that's those who are part of the whopping 93% whose mummies and daddies can't afford to splash ther cash on a posh education - didn't have to worry about costs of travelling to school, purchasing books etc. Just a thought![/p][/quote]All the people I know who send their kids to fee schools, both parents work and make sacrifices to afford it. They choose to prioritise their children's education over other things. Good for them. The idea that all of them have mansions and shoot grouse is outdated class warrior tripe.[/p][/quote]I'm afraid I don't know anyone who sent their children to fee-paying schools (I don't think they'd want to lower themselves to associate with serfs like myself!) so can't comment. I'm sure some are hard-working (if misguided) people. The real issue though, is why we should subsidise the charity status on their schools at the expense of the education of the non-private school educated majority. And as for 'outdated tripe', check out the recent ramblings of old Etonian Boris Johnson on how inequality exists because of the low IQ's of the masses (before failing a basic IQ test a few days later). I bet his mam and dad would be proud of the thousands they splashed on his education! BassalegCountyFan

2:11pm Mon 9 Dec 13

Llanmartinangel says...

BassalegCountyFan wrote:
Llanmartinangel wrote:
BassalegCountyFan wrote:
Llanmartinangel wrote:
BassalegCountyFan wrote:
On a national level, why don't we remove the charitable status on private schools so that they pay their fair share like the rest of us to improve the education of the majority. Just a thought.
Wouldn't that mean that the fees would go up in private schools? If less people could afford them you'd have to find places for them in the state system with the attendent additional cost so it's just pointless. The people paying twice for their kids education (they pay their taxes too) aren't what's wrong with failing state schools.
Actually we - the taxpayers - effectively lose £100 million a year to subsidise the charitable status of private schools. Bearing in mind that only 7% of children in Britain attend these schools, can we really afford to give wealthy parents who send their children to such institutions what equates to a £200 a year tax subsidy? More so, do private schools behave like charities to justify this status? I don't think so.
It's daft beyond belief.

Perhaps we could put that £100 million towards something more useful - reintroducing EMA. Perhaps average PISA scores would rise if large numbers of children- that's those who are part of the whopping 93% whose mummies and daddies can't afford to splash ther cash on a posh education - didn't have to worry about costs of travelling to school, purchasing books etc. Just a thought!
All the people I know who send their kids to fee schools, both parents work and make sacrifices to afford it. They choose to prioritise their children's education over other things. Good for them. The idea that all of them have mansions and shoot grouse is outdated class warrior tripe.
I'm afraid I don't know anyone who sent their children to fee-paying schools (I don't think they'd want to lower themselves to associate with serfs like myself!) so can't comment. I'm sure some are hard-working (if misguided) people. The real issue though, is why we should subsidise the charity status on their schools at the expense of the education of the non-private school educated majority.
And as for 'outdated tripe', check out the recent ramblings of old Etonian Boris Johnson on how inequality exists because of the low IQ's of the masses (before failing a basic IQ test a few days later). I bet his mam and dad would be proud of the thousands they splashed on his education!
I'm not sure why someone spending their own money on their kids education could be termed 'misguided' but hey, to each his/her own. As for bicycle obsessed Boris, true, but then I'd be as disinclined to quote him as I would his newt-fancying, hypocrite, tax avoiding predecessor.
[quote][p][bold]BassalegCountyFan[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BassalegCountyFan[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BassalegCountyFan[/bold] wrote: On a national level, why don't we remove the charitable status on private schools so that they pay their fair share like the rest of us to improve the education of the majority. Just a thought.[/p][/quote]Wouldn't that mean that the fees would go up in private schools? If less people could afford them you'd have to find places for them in the state system with the attendent additional cost so it's just pointless. The people paying twice for their kids education (they pay their taxes too) aren't what's wrong with failing state schools.[/p][/quote]Actually we - the taxpayers - effectively lose £100 million a year to subsidise the charitable status of private schools. Bearing in mind that only 7% of children in Britain attend these schools, can we really afford to give wealthy parents who send their children to such institutions what equates to a £200 a year tax subsidy? More so, do private schools behave like charities to justify this status? I don't think so. It's daft beyond belief. Perhaps we could put that £100 million towards something more useful - reintroducing EMA. Perhaps average PISA scores would rise if large numbers of children- that's those who are part of the whopping 93% whose mummies and daddies can't afford to splash ther cash on a posh education - didn't have to worry about costs of travelling to school, purchasing books etc. Just a thought![/p][/quote]All the people I know who send their kids to fee schools, both parents work and make sacrifices to afford it. They choose to prioritise their children's education over other things. Good for them. The idea that all of them have mansions and shoot grouse is outdated class warrior tripe.[/p][/quote]I'm afraid I don't know anyone who sent their children to fee-paying schools (I don't think they'd want to lower themselves to associate with serfs like myself!) so can't comment. I'm sure some are hard-working (if misguided) people. The real issue though, is why we should subsidise the charity status on their schools at the expense of the education of the non-private school educated majority. And as for 'outdated tripe', check out the recent ramblings of old Etonian Boris Johnson on how inequality exists because of the low IQ's of the masses (before failing a basic IQ test a few days later). I bet his mam and dad would be proud of the thousands they splashed on his education![/p][/quote]I'm not sure why someone spending their own money on their kids education could be termed 'misguided' but hey, to each his/her own. As for bicycle obsessed Boris, true, but then I'd be as disinclined to quote him as I would his newt-fancying, hypocrite, tax avoiding predecessor. Llanmartinangel

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