Varteg residents petition council over 'Y Farteg' name change

South Wales Argus: Varteg residents petition council over 'Y Farteg' name change Varteg residents petition council over 'Y Farteg' name change

A VARTEG resident’s petition has been submitted to Torfaen council in opposition to the proposed name change to Y Farteg.

A consultation was relaunched last month, reigniting a row started over the village following an initial proposal earlier this year.

It sparked widespread humour and concern at the time, and such was the stink that news outlets as far away as Canada and Minnesota in America picked up on it, while nationals from The Daily Mail to the New York Daily News also jumped on the bandwagon.

But Abersychan ward councillor Giles Davies presented a petition signed by around 120 Varteg residents to the full council Christmas meeting of the local authority yesterday, to make clear their position had not changed.

Speaking at the meeting he said: “The opposition is such that 99.9 per cent of residents do not want this.

“While supportive of the Welsh language generally, in this particular case when you consider the many years the Welsh version of the name has not been used it is redundant locally.

“Residents feel introducing it would create unfortunate opportunities for immature ridicule.”

Residents thought they had seen the back of the ‘insulting’ idea when Torfaen council ruled Farteg was inappropriate earlier this year, but the Welsh Language Commissioner subsequently suggested the alternative, Y Farteg.

Locals fear they would become the butt of jokes, with many adamant that the ancient name Varteg accurately reflects the history of the locality.

Others have said they do not feel the change would represent money well spent in times of biting austerity across the borough.

But others, like the Mayor of Blaenavon, councillor Gareth Davies, have said they do not believe it would make much difference.

Cllr Giles added after the meeting: “We are not against the Welsh language as we have been accused of by some. It’s about representing the people in the ward and how they feel. They don’t want it and we support them.”

Fellow ward councillor Wayne Tomlinson added: “At the end of the day it’s the resident’s opinions that matter.”

The council name-change consultation closed on Monday (December 9).

A Torfaen council spokesman said when the consultation was announced: “If either ‘Y Farteg’ or ‘Farteg’ are adopted it will mean that in the future one of these Welsh place names will be used alongside Varteg.”

Comments (16)

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8:15am Fri 13 Dec 13

Llanmartinangel says...

So the £104000 pa Welsh Language commisioner has had the brilliant idea of putting a 'Y' in front of it. You really couldn't make up the insane farce that Welsh politics has descended into. Talk about fiddling while Rome burns. Bonkers.
So the £104000 pa Welsh Language commisioner has had the brilliant idea of putting a 'Y' in front of it. You really couldn't make up the insane farce that Welsh politics has descended into. Talk about fiddling while Rome burns. Bonkers. Llanmartinangel

8:54am Fri 13 Dec 13

Dai Rear says...

Welsh Language Commissioner - what on earth happened to the "Bonfire of the Quangos"? Even Rumpole couldn't have made a convincing argument for keeping this one. Oh please let it be a Conservative Government next, or even better, Conservative-UKIP Alliance.
Welsh Language Commissioner - what on earth happened to the "Bonfire of the Quangos"? Even Rumpole couldn't have made a convincing argument for keeping this one. Oh please let it be a Conservative Government next, or even better, Conservative-UKIP Alliance. Dai Rear

8:55am Fri 13 Dec 13

varteg1 says...

The best definition I have seen, if one is truly necessary is one from another
correspondent....Gly
nfa Teg.. which actually appears to describe Varteg, as a ' high place of fair view'

But.... in Penarth there is a village named Court Y Vil. Which also carries a Cymraeg title, Cwrt Yr VIL why is there a 'V' being used in the Cymraeg version of there is no ' V' in the language. Or is that just a demonstration of the 'ignorance' of the Cymnraeg pressurising group?

Also, to the rear of my house the mountain shown on maps as early as 1820, as Varteg Fawr, note both the hard 'F' and the 'V' which hardly indicate the supposed 'ignorance' of the language by the map maker.

It's just another faddy attempt by Cymdaiuthas to blanket the area of Gwent with names that bear no relevance to historical exactitude.
The best definition I have seen, if one is truly necessary is one from another correspondent....Gly nfa Teg.. which actually appears to describe Varteg, as a ' high place of fair view' But.... in Penarth there is a village named Court Y Vil. Which also carries a Cymraeg title, Cwrt Yr VIL why is there a 'V' being used in the Cymraeg version of there is no ' V' in the language. Or is that just a demonstration of the 'ignorance' of the Cymnraeg pressurising group? Also, to the rear of my house the mountain shown on maps as early as 1820, as Varteg Fawr, note both the hard 'F' and the 'V' which hardly indicate the supposed 'ignorance' of the language by the map maker. It's just another faddy attempt by Cymdaiuthas to blanket the area of Gwent with names that bear no relevance to historical exactitude. varteg1

9:41am Fri 13 Dec 13

Jimport says...

Time to stop gassing on about this one - the whole situation stinks. A load of hot air, which will soon be trumped by another story.
Time to stop gassing on about this one - the whole situation stinks. A load of hot air, which will soon be trumped by another story. Jimport

9:54am Fri 13 Dec 13

Woodgnome says...

Why are public bodies still putting Varteg residents through this nonsense?
Why are public bodies still putting Varteg residents through this nonsense? Woodgnome

10:25am Fri 13 Dec 13

KarloMarko says...

Its about time people realised that they are living in proud CYMRU, not some anglo Kent backwater.

I am at present campaigning for our Vacaras fish and chip shop to become "Facharas" serving excellent Fish and Chips with lots of Finegar.

They will be singing in the Falleys tonight!
Its about time people realised that they are living in proud CYMRU, not some anglo Kent backwater. I am at present campaigning for our Vacaras fish and chip shop to become "Facharas" serving excellent Fish and Chips with lots of Finegar. They will be singing in the Falleys tonight! KarloMarko

11:11am Fri 13 Dec 13

Vox Dei says...

It's just another faddy attempt by Cymdaiuthas to blanket the area of Gwent with names that bear no relevance to historical exactitude.

But you've already fallen for "Gwent" haven't you? If you insist on calling Monmouthshire by a Welsh-language name, why not Farteg or anything else?
[quote]It's just another faddy attempt by Cymdaiuthas to blanket the area of Gwent with names that bear no relevance to historical exactitude.[/quote] But you've already fallen for "Gwent" haven't you? If you insist on calling Monmouthshire by a Welsh-language name, why not Farteg or anything else? Vox Dei

11:34am Fri 13 Dec 13

Dai Rear says...

Vox Dei wrote:
It's just another faddy attempt by Cymdaiuthas to blanket the area of Gwent with names that bear no relevance to historical exactitude.

But you've already fallen for "Gwent" haven't you? If you insist on calling Monmouthshire by a Welsh-language name, why not Farteg or anything else?
Why not go the whole hog? I'm sure the word beginning "gyrr" that looks like a sneeze comes originally from "giratoire", vitrine, fenestra, mura,cheval, eglise, they're all there, mutated a little bit, so why not return to Norman French? That's what the good folks mixed with Celtic 1000 years ago.
And, for those who want to do it, it can be purely a voluntary interest. Stick the quangocrat on the bonfire.
[quote][p][bold]Vox Dei[/bold] wrote: [quote]It's just another faddy attempt by Cymdaiuthas to blanket the area of Gwent with names that bear no relevance to historical exactitude.[/quote] But you've already fallen for "Gwent" haven't you? If you insist on calling Monmouthshire by a Welsh-language name, why not Farteg or anything else?[/p][/quote]Why not go the whole hog? I'm sure the word beginning "gyrr" that looks like a sneeze comes originally from "giratoire", vitrine, fenestra, mura,cheval, eglise, they're all there, mutated a little bit, so why not return to Norman French? That's what the good folks mixed with Celtic 1000 years ago. And, for those who want to do it, it can be purely a voluntary interest. Stick the quangocrat on the bonfire. Dai Rear

12:33pm Fri 13 Dec 13

Michael Weedall says...

The name 'Varteg' came into existence after a monoglot English Cartographer misspelt the Welsh place name 'Y Farteg'. 'Y Farteg' is a meaningful Welsh name whereas 'Varteg' has no meaning in either Welsh or English. The name 'Y Farteg' means 'The Place of Outstanding Beauty'.
The name 'Varteg' came into existence after a monoglot English Cartographer misspelt the Welsh place name 'Y Farteg'. 'Y Farteg' is a meaningful Welsh name whereas 'Varteg' has no meaning in either Welsh or English. The name 'Y Farteg' means 'The Place of Outstanding Beauty'. Michael Weedall

3:17pm Fri 13 Dec 13

Llanmartinangel says...

Michael Weedall wrote:
The name 'Varteg' came into existence after a monoglot English Cartographer misspelt the Welsh place name 'Y Farteg'. 'Y Farteg' is a meaningful Welsh name whereas 'Varteg' has no meaning in either Welsh or English. The name 'Y Farteg' means 'The Place of Outstanding Beauty'.
Tripe. It's a place name which people use to identify a location. That is it's only purpose. Hyperventilating about its origin is irrelevant now. Of course it's other purpose is to justify the existence of the lunatic fringe who get paid huge sums with gold plated pensions to obsess about this rubbish.
[quote][p][bold]Michael Weedall[/bold] wrote: The name 'Varteg' came into existence after a monoglot English Cartographer misspelt the Welsh place name 'Y Farteg'. 'Y Farteg' is a meaningful Welsh name whereas 'Varteg' has no meaning in either Welsh or English. The name 'Y Farteg' means 'The Place of Outstanding Beauty'.[/p][/quote]Tripe. It's a place name which people use to identify a location. That is it's only purpose. Hyperventilating about its origin is irrelevant now. Of course it's other purpose is to justify the existence of the lunatic fringe who get paid huge sums with gold plated pensions to obsess about this rubbish. Llanmartinangel

4:57pm Fri 13 Dec 13

varteg1 says...

KarloMarko wrote:
Its about time people realised that they are living in proud CYMRU, not some anglo Kent backwater.

I am at present campaigning for our Vacaras fish and chip shop to become "Facharas" serving excellent Fish and Chips with lots of Finegar.

They will be singing in the Falleys tonight!
Oh do Cwm on butty bach.
[quote][p][bold]KarloMarko[/bold] wrote: Its about time people realised that they are living in proud CYMRU, not some anglo Kent backwater. I am at present campaigning for our Vacaras fish and chip shop to become "Facharas" serving excellent Fish and Chips with lots of Finegar. They will be singing in the Falleys tonight![/p][/quote]Oh do Cwm on butty bach. varteg1

5:12pm Fri 13 Dec 13

varteg1 says...

KarloMarko wrote:
Its about time people realised that they are living in proud CYMRU, not some anglo Kent backwater.

I am at present campaigning for our Vacaras fish and chip shop to become "Facharas" serving excellent Fish and Chips with lots of Finegar.

They will be singing in the Falleys tonight!
Kent backwater.?


for a thousand years this region, was known as Monmouthshire, so a few of the old Cymraeg names were retained, so what, it doesn't mean we should now have to completely ignore the history of this area.

Lets be honest, the reason why the language was dying out was because the Welsh themselves abandoned it, in preference for the language which enabled them to correspond, converse, and generally communicate with our neighbours.

The language had a degree of merit when it was the language all spoke, and when Wales was a rural entity, ever since the early 1700's as the sophistication of the upper and middle classes grew and English language and cultural niceties became the fashionable norm, the language retreated in to ever decreasing areas.

Now we are being smothered with garbage rhetoric based on a fantasy, of a country that never really existed outside the dream scape mentality of a horde of 'takes us back to the old days' idiots. It wouldn't be so bad of not for the pressures and EXPENSE we are expected to tolerate in order for this idiot brigade to have their unnecessary and over privileged way.

Take your spelling of the name of our village and shove it where that blast of smelly air comes from.
[quote][p][bold]KarloMarko[/bold] wrote: Its about time people realised that they are living in proud CYMRU, not some anglo Kent backwater. I am at present campaigning for our Vacaras fish and chip shop to become "Facharas" serving excellent Fish and Chips with lots of Finegar. They will be singing in the Falleys tonight![/p][/quote]Kent backwater.? for a thousand years this region, was known as Monmouthshire, so a few of the old Cymraeg names were retained, so what, it doesn't mean we should now have to completely ignore the history of this area. Lets be honest, the reason why the language was dying out was because the Welsh themselves abandoned it, in preference for the language which enabled them to correspond, converse, and generally communicate with our neighbours. The language had a degree of merit when it was the language all spoke, and when Wales was a rural entity, ever since the early 1700's as the sophistication of the upper and middle classes grew and English language and cultural niceties became the fashionable norm, the language retreated in to ever decreasing areas. Now we are being smothered with garbage rhetoric based on a fantasy, of a country that never really existed outside the dream scape mentality of a horde of 'takes us back to the old days' idiots. It wouldn't be so bad of not for the pressures and EXPENSE we are expected to tolerate in order for this idiot brigade to have their unnecessary and over privileged way. Take your spelling of the name of our village and shove it where that blast of smelly air comes from. varteg1

5:38pm Fri 13 Dec 13

varteg1 says...

Vox Dei wrote:
It's just another faddy attempt by Cymdaiuthas to blanket the area of Gwent with names that bear no relevance to historical exactitude.

But you've already fallen for "Gwent" haven't you? If you insist on calling Monmouthshire by a Welsh-language name, why not Farteg or anything else?
Bit short on data are you? the word Caer comes from a Latin modified word via the Brythonic Kagro, another word stolen by the Cymro as they then changed it because there is no K in the Cymraeg.
Gwent is a corruption of Caerwent, as I recall,means windy (?)
castle.

So by taking it back through the centuries, it's hardly a 'Welsh' word anyway. No more than thousands of corrupted foreign words are at base, English.

If you do more than a cursory study of Cymraeg, I think you will find the actual number of retained Brythonic words, or Old Celtic, are quite few, and Cymraeg has absorbed, stolen, corrupted and modified many from pother languages, not less from English , Old \French, Norman, Latin (pont), right back to the original, possibly,Indian./'Dr
avidian.

All this name changing and reworking is little more than attempting to turn back a clock that the fingers have moved on to a new time.

Even the modern English with it's vast number of over a million words is gradually likely to become modified into an hardly recognisable version , just as the English of Chaucer of four hundred years ago, is not very comprehensible to the reader of today
[quote][p][bold]Vox Dei[/bold] wrote: [quote]It's just another faddy attempt by Cymdaiuthas to blanket the area of Gwent with names that bear no relevance to historical exactitude.[/quote] But you've already fallen for "Gwent" haven't you? If you insist on calling Monmouthshire by a Welsh-language name, why not Farteg or anything else?[/p][/quote]Bit short on data are you? the word Caer comes from a Latin modified word via the Brythonic Kagro, another word stolen by the Cymro as they then changed it because there is no K in the Cymraeg. Gwent is a corruption of Caerwent, as I recall,means windy (?) castle. So by taking it back through the centuries, it's hardly a 'Welsh' word anyway. No more than thousands of corrupted foreign words are at base, English. If you do more than a cursory study of Cymraeg, I think you will find the actual number of retained Brythonic words, or Old Celtic, are quite few, and Cymraeg has absorbed, stolen, corrupted and modified many from pother languages, not less from English , Old \French, Norman, Latin (pont), right back to the original, possibly,Indian./'Dr avidian. All this name changing and reworking is little more than attempting to turn back a clock that the fingers have moved on to a new time. Even the modern English with it's vast number of over a million words is gradually likely to become modified into an hardly recognisable version , just as the English of Chaucer of four hundred years ago, is not very comprehensible to the reader of today varteg1

9:04am Tue 17 Dec 13

Vox Dei says...

Gwent is a corruption of Caerwent, as I recall,means windy (?)
castle

And there was I thinking "Went" came from "Venta" as in "Venta Silurum"! The point is, as Llanmartinangel has already pointed out, that placenames are for identifying places. Their linguistic origins and pronunciations are irrelevant. There is absolutely no reason (other than political interference) to call Monmouthshire "Gwent", or insist that placenames are spelled and pronounced according to modern rules. To do so throws away the rich history that the spelling and pronunciation of such names encapsulates.
[quote]Gwent is a corruption of Caerwent, as I recall,means windy (?) castle[/quote] And there was I thinking "Went" came from "Venta" as in "Venta Silurum"! The point is, as Llanmartinangel has already pointed out, that placenames are for identifying places. Their linguistic origins and pronunciations are irrelevant. There is absolutely no reason (other than political interference) to call Monmouthshire "Gwent", or insist that placenames are spelled and pronounced according to modern rules. To do so throws away the rich history that the spelling and pronunciation of such names encapsulates. Vox Dei

9:33pm Sat 21 Dec 13

varteg1 says...

Vox Dei wrote:
Gwent is a corruption of Caerwent, as I recall,means windy (?)
castle

And there was I thinking "Went" came from "Venta" as in "Venta Silurum"! The point is, as Llanmartinangel has already pointed out, that placenames are for identifying places. Their linguistic origins and pronunciations are irrelevant. There is absolutely no reason (other than political interference) to call Monmouthshire "Gwent", or insist that placenames are spelled and pronounced according to modern rules. To do so throws away the rich history that the spelling and pronunciation of such names encapsulates.
As I said, 'went' is I believe Latin for wind, and as is the norm for most British languages they get modified, shortened and the spellings alter according to regional accentuation.
I am unsure as to the origin of Caer, other than it has come to us via Roman Latin as a variation of 'castre' Latin for fort or castle. Maybe 'camp'.
It also turns up as Chester, and is a component of Manchester..

In this region it is most obvious in Caerleon, the camp, fortress or castle of the Lion.

Whilst I agree that anyone called Leo is unlikely to be of leonine character, or even as fierce of a big cat, and what implication lies in his name, it is as you say just a name, as is Varteg, and we the residents of Varteg have made it plain to all concerned we like it as it is, simply a name or by implications a corrupted Cymraeg title indicating whatever .

Varteg is is and so it will remain, and the commissioner can go waste his time and OUR money elsewhere. TCBC should be firm and reject his overtures. telling him in no uncertain terms to go blow his horn in the declining Cymraeg speaking heartlands where the language is dying out apace..
[quote][p][bold]Vox Dei[/bold] wrote: [quote]Gwent is a corruption of Caerwent, as I recall,means windy (?) castle[/quote] And there was I thinking "Went" came from "Venta" as in "Venta Silurum"! The point is, as Llanmartinangel has already pointed out, that placenames are for identifying places. Their linguistic origins and pronunciations are irrelevant. There is absolutely no reason (other than political interference) to call Monmouthshire "Gwent", or insist that placenames are spelled and pronounced according to modern rules. To do so throws away the rich history that the spelling and pronunciation of such names encapsulates.[/p][/quote]As I said, 'went' is I believe Latin for wind, and as is the norm for most British languages they get modified, shortened and the spellings alter according to regional accentuation. I am unsure as to the origin of Caer, other than it has come to us via Roman Latin as a variation of 'castre' Latin for fort or castle. Maybe 'camp'. It also turns up as Chester, and is a component of Manchester.. In this region it is most obvious in Caerleon, the camp, fortress or castle of the Lion. Whilst I agree that anyone called Leo is unlikely to be of leonine character, or even as fierce of a big cat, and what implication lies in his name, it is as you say just a name, as is Varteg, and we the residents of Varteg have made it plain to all concerned we like it as it is, simply a name or by implications a corrupted Cymraeg title indicating whatever . Varteg is is and so it will remain, and the commissioner can go waste his time and OUR money elsewhere. TCBC should be firm and reject his overtures. telling him in no uncertain terms to go blow his horn in the declining Cymraeg speaking heartlands where the language is dying out apace.. varteg1

3:49pm Thu 2 Jan 14

Vox Dei says...

I concur entirely with the desire to leave place names alone, however you are way off the mark with your Latin translations. Venta has nothing to do with wind, and refers instead to a market place. Caer Leon has nothing to do with Lions, but Legions, as in the erstwhile 2nd Augustan Legion who were based there.
I concur entirely with the desire to leave place names alone, however you are way off the mark with your Latin translations. Venta has nothing to do with wind, and refers instead to a market place. Caer Leon has nothing to do with Lions, but Legions, as in the erstwhile 2nd Augustan Legion who were based there. Vox Dei

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