Fears M4 relief road will eat up money

A THINK tank has said the Welsh Government risks spending all money meant for new investments on the proposed new section of the M4.

Under conditions of the Draft Wales Bill published by the UK Government, the Welsh Government can only borrow £500 million for infrastructure projects.

Although the Welsh Government has said the new six lane motorway will cost £936 million, the IWA said costs might run to £1.25 billion.

Lee Waters, The Institute of Welsh Affairs' director, said: “A new motorway would swallow up all of the money from the initial borrowing powers, and would require a significant top-up from other sources. But ministers could fully fund the more cost effective Blue Route option entirely from the new funds.

“By upgrading the existing road network instead of building a brand new section of motorway the Welsh Government would have money left over to invest in other parts of Wales.”

Alternative plans have been proposed to the M4 relief road. One transport expert, Professor Stuart Cole, said his alternative road plan, which would follow the A48 Newport Southern Distributor Road and the former Steelworks Road on the eastern side of Newport to create a new dual carriageway, would cost £380 million.

Comments (12)

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11:05am Thu 19 Dec 13

Vox Dei says...

Why can't the UK government fund it? What good is the bloody Assembly? It just exists to create extra layers of confusion and problems.
Why can't the UK government fund it? What good is the bloody Assembly? It just exists to create extra layers of confusion and problems. Vox Dei

11:46am Thu 19 Dec 13

Thomas O'Malley says...

Any money spent on the M4 relief road is a fraction of that being lost by the Welsh economy as a result of the current M4 chaos. Not to mention the deaths, injuries and financial loss. There was years of compromise upgrades to the M4 that wasted money, caused more chaos and solved nothing, so the WAG could waste money elsewhere. There's no other option that provides capacity and resilience. More compromise solutions wont solve the problem, just more wasted money and lives. Stop talking - get it built.
Any money spent on the M4 relief road is a fraction of that being lost by the Welsh economy as a result of the current M4 chaos. Not to mention the deaths, injuries and financial loss. There was years of compromise upgrades to the M4 that wasted money, caused more chaos and solved nothing, so the WAG could waste money elsewhere. There's no other option that provides capacity and resilience. More compromise solutions wont solve the problem, just more wasted money and lives. Stop talking - get it built. Thomas O'Malley

12:41pm Thu 19 Dec 13

St3v3y says...

Thomas O'Malley wrote:
Any money spent on the M4 relief road is a fraction of that being lost by the Welsh economy as a result of the current M4 chaos. Not to mention the deaths, injuries and financial loss. There was years of compromise upgrades to the M4 that wasted money, caused more chaos and solved nothing, so the WAG could waste money elsewhere. There's no other option that provides capacity and resilience. More compromise solutions wont solve the problem, just more wasted money and lives. Stop talking - get it built.
The Current M4 is only slow at peak times, so where's the loss to the Welsh economy as 90% of the traffic consists of commuters traveling to and from work? What is needed is Strict Lane Control ( we already have the illuminated signs in place for this ) and enforced speed control we have the gantries above the M/way and the speed camera markings on the road, but as of yet only a couple of cameras are attached which, to the best of my knowledge, don't work. I have pointed out that even some of the widest motorways in the UK e.g. the M25 become slow moving to car park status at peak times, it's all down to the volume of vehicles on our roads and that's just life..
[quote][p][bold]Thomas O'Malley[/bold] wrote: Any money spent on the M4 relief road is a fraction of that being lost by the Welsh economy as a result of the current M4 chaos. Not to mention the deaths, injuries and financial loss. There was years of compromise upgrades to the M4 that wasted money, caused more chaos and solved nothing, so the WAG could waste money elsewhere. There's no other option that provides capacity and resilience. More compromise solutions wont solve the problem, just more wasted money and lives. Stop talking - get it built.[/p][/quote]The Current M4 is only slow at peak times, so where's the loss to the Welsh economy as 90% of the traffic consists of commuters traveling to and from work? What is needed is Strict Lane Control ( we already have the illuminated signs in place for this ) and enforced speed control we have the gantries above the M/way and the speed camera markings on the road, but as of yet only a couple of cameras are attached which, to the best of my knowledge, don't work. I have pointed out that even some of the widest motorways in the UK e.g. the M25 become slow moving to car park status at peak times, it's all down to the volume of vehicles on our roads and that's just life.. St3v3y

12:54pm Thu 19 Dec 13

ninebalehigh says...

St3v3y wrote:
Thomas O'Malley wrote:
Any money spent on the M4 relief road is a fraction of that being lost by the Welsh economy as a result of the current M4 chaos. Not to mention the deaths, injuries and financial loss. There was years of compromise upgrades to the M4 that wasted money, caused more chaos and solved nothing, so the WAG could waste money elsewhere. There's no other option that provides capacity and resilience. More compromise solutions wont solve the problem, just more wasted money and lives. Stop talking - get it built.
The Current M4 is only slow at peak times, so where's the loss to the Welsh economy as 90% of the traffic consists of commuters traveling to and from work? What is needed is Strict Lane Control ( we already have the illuminated signs in place for this ) and enforced speed control we have the gantries above the M/way and the speed camera markings on the road, but as of yet only a couple of cameras are attached which, to the best of my knowledge, don't work. I have pointed out that even some of the widest motorways in the UK e.g. the M25 become slow moving to car park status at peak times, it's all down to the volume of vehicles on our roads and that's just life..
The Current M4 is only slow at peak times, so where's the loss to the Welsh economy as 90% of the traffic consists of commuters traveling to and from work? What is needed is Strict Lane Control ( we already have the illuminated signs in place for this ) and enforced speed control we have the gantries above the M/way and the speed camera markings on the road, but as of yet only a couple of cameras are attached which, to the best of my knowledge, don't work. I have pointed out that even some of the widest motorways in the UK e.g. the M25 become slow moving to car park status at peak times, it's all down to the volume of vehicles on our roads and that's just life..

Well said, I agree completely. Who and where are all these so-called investors just longing to invest in Wales if only we had a decent motorway??
[quote][p][bold]St3v3y[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thomas O'Malley[/bold] wrote: Any money spent on the M4 relief road is a fraction of that being lost by the Welsh economy as a result of the current M4 chaos. Not to mention the deaths, injuries and financial loss. There was years of compromise upgrades to the M4 that wasted money, caused more chaos and solved nothing, so the WAG could waste money elsewhere. There's no other option that provides capacity and resilience. More compromise solutions wont solve the problem, just more wasted money and lives. Stop talking - get it built.[/p][/quote]The Current M4 is only slow at peak times, so where's the loss to the Welsh economy as 90% of the traffic consists of commuters traveling to and from work? What is needed is Strict Lane Control ( we already have the illuminated signs in place for this ) and enforced speed control we have the gantries above the M/way and the speed camera markings on the road, but as of yet only a couple of cameras are attached which, to the best of my knowledge, don't work. I have pointed out that even some of the widest motorways in the UK e.g. the M25 become slow moving to car park status at peak times, it's all down to the volume of vehicles on our roads and that's just life..[/p][/quote]The Current M4 is only slow at peak times, so where's the loss to the Welsh economy as 90% of the traffic consists of commuters traveling to and from work? What is needed is Strict Lane Control ( we already have the illuminated signs in place for this ) and enforced speed control we have the gantries above the M/way and the speed camera markings on the road, but as of yet only a couple of cameras are attached which, to the best of my knowledge, don't work. I have pointed out that even some of the widest motorways in the UK e.g. the M25 become slow moving to car park status at peak times, it's all down to the volume of vehicles on our roads and that's just life.. Well said, I agree completely. Who and where are all these so-called investors just longing to invest in Wales if only we had a decent motorway?? ninebalehigh

2:03pm Thu 19 Dec 13

Jonnytrouble says...

Another so called expert ( transport expert, Professor Stuart Cole ) sticking his nose in...How many miles has he travelled on this stretch of motorway ?, has he got stuck in it or stop start in it ? does he LIVE nr it !
AND that silly idea is DEAD, roundabouts and traffic lights and MORE pollution for those nr by,,,it is just MORE talk to STOP it ever happening !!
Another so called expert ( transport expert, Professor Stuart Cole ) sticking his nose in...How many miles has he travelled on this stretch of motorway ?, has he got stuck in it or stop start in it ? does he LIVE nr it ! AND that silly idea is DEAD, roundabouts and traffic lights and MORE pollution for those nr by,,,it is just MORE talk to STOP it ever happening !! Jonnytrouble

2:08pm Thu 19 Dec 13

Jonnytrouble says...

St3v3y wrote:
Thomas O'Malley wrote:
Any money spent on the M4 relief road is a fraction of that being lost by the Welsh economy as a result of the current M4 chaos. Not to mention the deaths, injuries and financial loss. There was years of compromise upgrades to the M4 that wasted money, caused more chaos and solved nothing, so the WAG could waste money elsewhere. There's no other option that provides capacity and resilience. More compromise solutions wont solve the problem, just more wasted money and lives. Stop talking - get it built.
The Current M4 is only slow at peak times, so where's the loss to the Welsh economy as 90% of the traffic consists of commuters traveling to and from work? What is needed is Strict Lane Control ( we already have the illuminated signs in place for this ) and enforced speed control we have the gantries above the M/way and the speed camera markings on the road, but as of yet only a couple of cameras are attached which, to the best of my knowledge, don't work. I have pointed out that even some of the widest motorways in the UK e.g. the M25 become slow moving to car park status at peak times, it's all down to the volume of vehicles on our roads and that's just life..
7PM on a fri night it is stop start some times for miles for those tunnels is it' commuter traffic ? and accidents that appear now on a regular basis, what PLANET are you ON ?
YOU Must be ANOTHER GREEN wanting it not to go ahead ?
[quote][p][bold]St3v3y[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thomas O'Malley[/bold] wrote: Any money spent on the M4 relief road is a fraction of that being lost by the Welsh economy as a result of the current M4 chaos. Not to mention the deaths, injuries and financial loss. There was years of compromise upgrades to the M4 that wasted money, caused more chaos and solved nothing, so the WAG could waste money elsewhere. There's no other option that provides capacity and resilience. More compromise solutions wont solve the problem, just more wasted money and lives. Stop talking - get it built.[/p][/quote]The Current M4 is only slow at peak times, so where's the loss to the Welsh economy as 90% of the traffic consists of commuters traveling to and from work? What is needed is Strict Lane Control ( we already have the illuminated signs in place for this ) and enforced speed control we have the gantries above the M/way and the speed camera markings on the road, but as of yet only a couple of cameras are attached which, to the best of my knowledge, don't work. I have pointed out that even some of the widest motorways in the UK e.g. the M25 become slow moving to car park status at peak times, it's all down to the volume of vehicles on our roads and that's just life..[/p][/quote]7PM on a fri night it is stop start some times for miles for those tunnels is it' commuter traffic ? and accidents that appear now on a regular basis, what PLANET are you ON ? YOU Must be ANOTHER GREEN wanting it not to go ahead ? Jonnytrouble

7:37pm Thu 19 Dec 13

St3v3y says...

Jonnytrouble wrote:
St3v3y wrote:
Thomas O'Malley wrote:
Any money spent on the M4 relief road is a fraction of that being lost by the Welsh economy as a result of the current M4 chaos. Not to mention the deaths, injuries and financial loss. There was years of compromise upgrades to the M4 that wasted money, caused more chaos and solved nothing, so the WAG could waste money elsewhere. There's no other option that provides capacity and resilience. More compromise solutions wont solve the problem, just more wasted money and lives. Stop talking - get it built.
The Current M4 is only slow at peak times, so where's the loss to the Welsh economy as 90% of the traffic consists of commuters traveling to and from work? What is needed is Strict Lane Control ( we already have the illuminated signs in place for this ) and enforced speed control we have the gantries above the M/way and the speed camera markings on the road, but as of yet only a couple of cameras are attached which, to the best of my knowledge, don't work. I have pointed out that even some of the widest motorways in the UK e.g. the M25 become slow moving to car park status at peak times, it's all down to the volume of vehicles on our roads and that's just life..
7PM on a fri night it is stop start some times for miles for those tunnels is it' commuter traffic ? and accidents that appear now on a regular basis, what PLANET are you ON ?
YOU Must be ANOTHER GREEN wanting it not to go ahead ?
Sory to dissapoint Jonny, but I'm Not a Green as you put it, I am a regular user of the uk's motorway networks, and I can tell you in confidence that the only financially viable solution to the problem is ...Strick Lane Control and enforced speed control starting at the magor turn off going west to the tredegar park turn off and east bound from where the M4 meets the M48 through to the Coldra....It works perfectly elswhere in the UK and it would work equally as well here in Newport..
[quote][p][bold]Jonnytrouble[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]St3v3y[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thomas O'Malley[/bold] wrote: Any money spent on the M4 relief road is a fraction of that being lost by the Welsh economy as a result of the current M4 chaos. Not to mention the deaths, injuries and financial loss. There was years of compromise upgrades to the M4 that wasted money, caused more chaos and solved nothing, so the WAG could waste money elsewhere. There's no other option that provides capacity and resilience. More compromise solutions wont solve the problem, just more wasted money and lives. Stop talking - get it built.[/p][/quote]The Current M4 is only slow at peak times, so where's the loss to the Welsh economy as 90% of the traffic consists of commuters traveling to and from work? What is needed is Strict Lane Control ( we already have the illuminated signs in place for this ) and enforced speed control we have the gantries above the M/way and the speed camera markings on the road, but as of yet only a couple of cameras are attached which, to the best of my knowledge, don't work. I have pointed out that even some of the widest motorways in the UK e.g. the M25 become slow moving to car park status at peak times, it's all down to the volume of vehicles on our roads and that's just life..[/p][/quote]7PM on a fri night it is stop start some times for miles for those tunnels is it' commuter traffic ? and accidents that appear now on a regular basis, what PLANET are you ON ? YOU Must be ANOTHER GREEN wanting it not to go ahead ?[/p][/quote]Sory to dissapoint Jonny, but I'm Not a Green as you put it, I am a regular user of the uk's motorway networks, and I can tell you in confidence that the only financially viable solution to the problem is ...Strick Lane Control and enforced speed control starting at the magor turn off going west to the tredegar park turn off and east bound from where the M4 meets the M48 through to the Coldra....It works perfectly elswhere in the UK and it would work equally as well here in Newport.. St3v3y

7:50pm Thu 19 Dec 13

Dave on his Soapbox says...

'7PM on a fri night it is stop start some times for miles for those tunnels is it' commuter traffic '
....yes it's all the people who work/stay in England/London all week returning home for the weekend.....as there are few decent jobs in Wales......

....as to funding am I the only one that doesn't believe that it will either be a PFI toll road...or a continuing toll on the Severn Bridges for ever more.....
'7PM on a fri night it is stop start some times for miles for those tunnels is it' commuter traffic ' ....yes it's all the people who work/stay in England/London all week returning home for the weekend.....as there are few decent jobs in Wales...... ....as to funding am I the only one that doesn't believe that it will either be a PFI toll road...or a continuing toll on the Severn Bridges for ever more..... Dave on his Soapbox

1:52pm Fri 20 Dec 13

Thomas O'Malley says...

St3v3y wrote:
Jonnytrouble wrote:
St3v3y wrote:
Thomas O'Malley wrote:
Any money spent on the M4 relief road is a fraction of that being lost by the Welsh economy as a result of the current M4 chaos. Not to mention the deaths, injuries and financial loss. There was years of compromise upgrades to the M4 that wasted money, caused more chaos and solved nothing, so the WAG could waste money elsewhere. There's no other option that provides capacity and resilience. More compromise solutions wont solve the problem, just more wasted money and lives. Stop talking - get it built.
The Current M4 is only slow at peak times, so where's the loss to the Welsh economy as 90% of the traffic consists of commuters traveling to and from work? What is needed is Strict Lane Control ( we already have the illuminated signs in place for this ) and enforced speed control we have the gantries above the M/way and the speed camera markings on the road, but as of yet only a couple of cameras are attached which, to the best of my knowledge, don't work. I have pointed out that even some of the widest motorways in the UK e.g. the M25 become slow moving to car park status at peak times, it's all down to the volume of vehicles on our roads and that's just life..
7PM on a fri night it is stop start some times for miles for those tunnels is it' commuter traffic ? and accidents that appear now on a regular basis, what PLANET are you ON ?
YOU Must be ANOTHER GREEN wanting it not to go ahead ?
Sory to dissapoint Jonny, but I'm Not a Green as you put it, I am a regular user of the uk's motorway networks, and I can tell you in confidence that the only financially viable solution to the problem is ...Strick Lane Control and enforced speed control starting at the magor turn off going west to the tredegar park turn off and east bound from where the M4 meets the M48 through to the Coldra....It works perfectly elswhere in the UK and it would work equally as well here in Newport..
Motorway restrictions don't work anywhere simply because fast flow driving up to 70mph is not then possible - hence defeating the whole point of a motorway. It's not 'just life' and we the taxpayer don''t have to accept the deaths, injuries and chaos when there's a clear and obvious solution in the M4 Relief road.

Why would the taxpayer waste more money downgrading the existing M4 with traffic restrictions, especially as that idea has already been tried and failed in Newport with years of wasted money and disruption. We pay for a high speed motorway not a crawler lane. Yes money is tight but there's been no investment in Newport since the WAG came into existence and now the m4 is a blocker to all of South Wales with a daily toll of deaths and injuries.

More compromise restrictions on the M4 would be treating the problem not the cause. Its not a viable motorway around Newport due to a combination of high volumes, narrowing at the tunnels, many junctions in a relatively short stretch, some relatively tight bends and some uphill/downhill stretches. Trying to enforce bumper to bumper driving at 40mph would solve nothing but would create more pollution and probably more deaths and injuries. Most importantly it wouldn't provide any resilience when problems inevitably occur with the tunnel and approaches.

Everyone knows the M4 relief road is the only answer - it's just a case of prioritising the money. Yes that's hard, but the WAG and UK government have to step up to the mark. Get the relief road built.
[quote][p][bold]St3v3y[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Jonnytrouble[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]St3v3y[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Thomas O'Malley[/bold] wrote: Any money spent on the M4 relief road is a fraction of that being lost by the Welsh economy as a result of the current M4 chaos. Not to mention the deaths, injuries and financial loss. There was years of compromise upgrades to the M4 that wasted money, caused more chaos and solved nothing, so the WAG could waste money elsewhere. There's no other option that provides capacity and resilience. More compromise solutions wont solve the problem, just more wasted money and lives. Stop talking - get it built.[/p][/quote]The Current M4 is only slow at peak times, so where's the loss to the Welsh economy as 90% of the traffic consists of commuters traveling to and from work? What is needed is Strict Lane Control ( we already have the illuminated signs in place for this ) and enforced speed control we have the gantries above the M/way and the speed camera markings on the road, but as of yet only a couple of cameras are attached which, to the best of my knowledge, don't work. I have pointed out that even some of the widest motorways in the UK e.g. the M25 become slow moving to car park status at peak times, it's all down to the volume of vehicles on our roads and that's just life..[/p][/quote]7PM on a fri night it is stop start some times for miles for those tunnels is it' commuter traffic ? and accidents that appear now on a regular basis, what PLANET are you ON ? YOU Must be ANOTHER GREEN wanting it not to go ahead ?[/p][/quote]Sory to dissapoint Jonny, but I'm Not a Green as you put it, I am a regular user of the uk's motorway networks, and I can tell you in confidence that the only financially viable solution to the problem is ...Strick Lane Control and enforced speed control starting at the magor turn off going west to the tredegar park turn off and east bound from where the M4 meets the M48 through to the Coldra....It works perfectly elswhere in the UK and it would work equally as well here in Newport..[/p][/quote]Motorway restrictions don't work anywhere simply because fast flow driving up to 70mph is not then possible - hence defeating the whole point of a motorway. It's not 'just life' and we the taxpayer don''t have to accept the deaths, injuries and chaos when there's a clear and obvious solution in the M4 Relief road. Why would the taxpayer waste more money downgrading the existing M4 with traffic restrictions, especially as that idea has already been tried and failed in Newport with years of wasted money and disruption. We pay for a high speed motorway not a crawler lane. Yes money is tight but there's been no investment in Newport since the WAG came into existence and now the m4 is a blocker to all of South Wales with a daily toll of deaths and injuries. More compromise restrictions on the M4 would be treating the problem not the cause. Its not a viable motorway around Newport due to a combination of high volumes, narrowing at the tunnels, many junctions in a relatively short stretch, some relatively tight bends and some uphill/downhill stretches. Trying to enforce bumper to bumper driving at 40mph would solve nothing but would create more pollution and probably more deaths and injuries. Most importantly it wouldn't provide any resilience when problems inevitably occur with the tunnel and approaches. Everyone knows the M4 relief road is the only answer - it's just a case of prioritising the money. Yes that's hard, but the WAG and UK government have to step up to the mark. Get the relief road built. Thomas O'Malley

3:53pm Fri 20 Dec 13

St3v3y says...

Thomas,
in answer to your points.
I challenge you to find a motorway anywhere in the UK that has fast , free flowing traffic at peak times. ( toll motorways not included ) The M4 does not have exclusive rights to Deaths and injury's they occur all over the country every day.

Traffic restrictions have not been fully implemented on the M4 at all, as I have pointed out before, the illuminated signs are in place and we have the gantries above the M/way and the speed camera markings on the road, but as of yet only a couple of cameras are attached which, to the best of my knowledge, don't work. So in reality none of it has really been used ti full effect apart from the signs stating the bleeding obvious when its raining ( poor driving conditions ) Like I/we didn't already realize.!! also I wasn't aware that there are Daily Deaths and Injury's, care to prove that one?

The problem for the M4 is the same as any other road in the UK and that is Volume of traffic, so there's your cause, deal with that if you can. The majority of the accidents that occur on this stretch of motorway are down to drivers who attempt to get as far down the slow moving traffic as possible in the hope a gap will appear to squeeze into, this causes accidents and puts lives at risk, and inevitable tailbacks. If drivers are forced to get into the correct land Long before the exit, then this issue will be eliminated... It also allows traffic that is not leaving the motorway to motor on, unaffected by Que jumpers. If people cant handle slowing down for a few miles its a bit sad really.

Everyone also Knows that a relief road is NOT the answer, its all about whipping those naughty impatient drivers into some sort of shape...Spend the money on something else.
Thomas, in answer to your points. I challenge you to find a motorway anywhere in the UK that has fast , free flowing traffic at peak times. ( toll motorways not included ) The M4 does not have exclusive rights to Deaths and injury's they occur all over the country every day. Traffic restrictions have not been fully implemented on the M4 at all, as I have pointed out before, the illuminated signs are in place and we have the gantries above the M/way and the speed camera markings on the road, but as of yet only a couple of cameras are attached which, to the best of my knowledge, don't work. So in reality none of it has really been used ti full effect apart from the signs stating the bleeding obvious when its raining ( poor driving conditions ) Like I/we didn't already realize.!! also I wasn't aware that there are Daily Deaths and Injury's, care to prove that one? The problem for the M4 is the same as any other road in the UK and that is Volume of traffic, so there's your cause, deal with that if you can. The majority of the accidents that occur on this stretch of motorway are down to drivers who attempt to get as far down the slow moving traffic as possible in the hope a gap will appear to squeeze into, this causes accidents and puts lives at risk, and inevitable tailbacks. If drivers are forced to get into the correct land Long before the exit, then this issue will be eliminated... It also allows traffic that is not leaving the motorway to motor on, unaffected by Que jumpers. If people cant handle slowing down for a few miles its a bit sad really. Everyone also Knows that a relief road is NOT the answer, its all about whipping those naughty impatient drivers into some sort of shape...Spend the money on something else. St3v3y

5:11pm Fri 20 Dec 13

NakedDancer says...

I regularly drive all over the country. I can name you any number of free flowing standard 70mph motorway stretches near towns, including in rush hour. Yes there are other bad motorway spots and this is one of the worst in the UK. As far as I know there is no other stretch of motorway that has almost daily incidents, lane closures, complete blockages and related deaths, injuries and consequent traffic chaos.

The point you keep ignoring is we have a chance to fix this one.

You can't seriously be suggesting that driver education (if that's even possible) and slowing everyone down this motorway will ever be fit for purpose. That's just silly and doesn't provide resilience. We'll have even more deaths and chaos in 5, 10, 15 years time.

I suspect you are actually winding us up here. You must know the evidence is in the almost daily Argus incident reports. You must either be one of the greens or a NIMBY so you should argue those points rather than suggesting wasting more money and making a terrible situation worse.
I regularly drive all over the country. I can name you any number of free flowing standard 70mph motorway stretches near towns, including in rush hour. Yes there are other bad motorway spots and this is one of the worst in the UK. As far as I know there is no other stretch of motorway that has almost daily incidents, lane closures, complete blockages and related deaths, injuries and consequent traffic chaos. The point you keep ignoring is we have a chance to fix this one. You can't seriously be suggesting that driver education (if that's even possible) and slowing everyone down this motorway will ever be fit for purpose. That's just silly and doesn't provide resilience. We'll have even more deaths and chaos in 5, 10, 15 years time. I suspect you are actually winding us up here. You must know the evidence is in the almost daily Argus incident reports. You must either be one of the greens or a NIMBY so you should argue those points rather than suggesting wasting more money and making a terrible situation worse. NakedDancer

12:57am Sat 21 Dec 13

St3v3y says...

NakedDancer wrote:
I regularly drive all over the country. I can name you any number of free flowing standard 70mph motorway stretches near towns, including in rush hour. Yes there are other bad motorway spots and this is one of the worst in the UK. As far as I know there is no other stretch of motorway that has almost daily incidents, lane closures, complete blockages and related deaths, injuries and consequent traffic chaos.

The point you keep ignoring is we have a chance to fix this one.

You can't seriously be suggesting that driver education (if that's even possible) and slowing everyone down this motorway will ever be fit for purpose. That's just silly and doesn't provide resilience. We'll have even more deaths and chaos in 5, 10, 15 years time.

I suspect you are actually winding us up here. You must know the evidence is in the almost daily Argus incident reports. You must either be one of the greens or a NIMBY so you should argue those points rather than suggesting wasting more money and making a terrible situation worse.
Hi NakedDancer, please tell me which Motorways you speak of, when I'm on my travels I will go and see for myself. It's not driver education i'm pushing, because as you well know, you can't educate the impatient and down right stupid. I'd like to see someone take up my idea and trial it for a month, and if after a month I'm proved hopelessly wrong, I'll eat humble pie. No, I am not trying to wind anyone up, just offering a bit of debate, and No I'm not a NIMBY as it wont effect me in the slightest.
[quote][p][bold]NakedDancer[/bold] wrote: I regularly drive all over the country. I can name you any number of free flowing standard 70mph motorway stretches near towns, including in rush hour. Yes there are other bad motorway spots and this is one of the worst in the UK. As far as I know there is no other stretch of motorway that has almost daily incidents, lane closures, complete blockages and related deaths, injuries and consequent traffic chaos. The point you keep ignoring is we have a chance to fix this one. You can't seriously be suggesting that driver education (if that's even possible) and slowing everyone down this motorway will ever be fit for purpose. That's just silly and doesn't provide resilience. We'll have even more deaths and chaos in 5, 10, 15 years time. I suspect you are actually winding us up here. You must know the evidence is in the almost daily Argus incident reports. You must either be one of the greens or a NIMBY so you should argue those points rather than suggesting wasting more money and making a terrible situation worse.[/p][/quote]Hi NakedDancer, please tell me which Motorways you speak of, when I'm on my travels I will go and see for myself. It's not driver education i'm pushing, because as you well know, you can't educate the impatient and down right stupid. I'd like to see someone take up my idea and trial it for a month, and if after a month I'm proved hopelessly wrong, I'll eat humble pie. No, I am not trying to wind anyone up, just offering a bit of debate, and No I'm not a NIMBY as it wont effect me in the slightest. St3v3y

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