Abergavenny businessman cleared of deliberate attack on thieves

South Wales Argus: NOT GUILTY: Abergavenny businessman Andrew Woodhouse outside Cardiff Crown Court today NOT GUILTY: Abergavenny businessman Andrew Woodhouse outside Cardiff Crown Court today

AN ABERGAVENNY businessman was today found not guilty of causing grievous bodily harm, and grievous bodily harm with intent to two thieves who took diesel from his yard in Llanfoist.

One of the thieves was left with three broken limbs after the incident in the early hours of March 26 last year.

Andrew Woodhouse, who owns Abergavenny Tyres, admitted to Cardiff Crown Court that he was hitting out “like a madman” with a stick, but said it was in self-defence and he did not mean to cause the injuries.

Comments (44)

Please log in to enable comment sorting

4:19pm Wed 22 Jan 14

Llanmartinangel says...

Was it ever in the public interest to bring this to court? Good for him.
Was it ever in the public interest to bring this to court? Good for him. Llanmartinangel

4:43pm Wed 22 Jan 14

kez1968 says...

excellent verdict, about time the law was on the side of the victims and not pandering to the criminals, and for giving the thief a smack or two, well perhaps he will think twice about stealing somebody else's property, good result all round.
excellent verdict, about time the law was on the side of the victims and not pandering to the criminals, and for giving the thief a smack or two, well perhaps he will think twice about stealing somebody else's property, good result all round. kez1968

4:51pm Wed 22 Jan 14

richie55 says...

Good verdict. Nice to see a Welsh jury using common sense. This case should never have been taken to court!
Good verdict. Nice to see a Welsh jury using common sense. This case should never have been taken to court! richie55

4:54pm Wed 22 Jan 14

theviking666 says...

it's my castle. do not intrude
it's my castle. do not intrude theviking666

4:58pm Wed 22 Jan 14

jimmysmith says...

great result for andrew and justice .for to long these scumbags from saint faiths close have got away with robbing local buisinesses terrorising young families .the local residents have raised petitions theyve also held meetings with abergavenny police ,who have basically done nothing over the years to deter these thieves and thugs from our area .once again a wonderful result for andrew and his family these vermin have ut this hard working family through hell
great result for andrew and justice .for to long these scumbags from saint faiths close have got away with robbing local buisinesses terrorising young families .the local residents have raised petitions theyve also held meetings with abergavenny police ,who have basically done nothing over the years to deter these thieves and thugs from our area .once again a wonderful result for andrew and his family these vermin have ut this hard working family through hell jimmysmith

5:03pm Wed 22 Jan 14

marcus20051977 says...

happy days Good verdict
happy days Good verdict marcus20051977

5:19pm Wed 22 Jan 14

Aquarius says...

Any of the usual pompous attempts at justifying the case going forward from Gwent Police or the CPS?
Any of the usual pompous attempts at justifying the case going forward from Gwent Police or the CPS? Aquarius

5:19pm Wed 22 Jan 14

Ollie254 says...

Congratulations Andrew. A good verdict for a change.
Congratulations Andrew. A good verdict for a change. Ollie254

5:24pm Wed 22 Jan 14

Magor says...

I imagine this scum has been responsible for a lot of crime in the area.I hope they have now learnt a lesson.
I imagine this scum has been responsible for a lot of crime in the area.I hope they have now learnt a lesson. Magor

5:49pm Wed 22 Jan 14

lowandhardandinthecorner says...

Typical of modern policing I'm afraid, unwilling to protect those who are wronged but then turning on people who are merely protecting themselves or their property. Shocking that it ever came to court, shame on the police and the CPS.
Typical of modern policing I'm afraid, unwilling to protect those who are wronged but then turning on people who are merely protecting themselves or their property. Shocking that it ever came to court, shame on the police and the CPS. lowandhardandinthecorner

6:13pm Wed 22 Jan 14

whatintheworld says...

Aquarius wrote:
Any of the usual pompous attempts at justifying the case going forward from Gwent Police or the CPS?
i'll bite - you could argue that 3 broken limbs is excessive force.

i do agree wth the verdict though
[quote][p][bold]Aquarius[/bold] wrote: Any of the usual pompous attempts at justifying the case going forward from Gwent Police or the CPS?[/p][/quote]i'll bite - you could argue that 3 broken limbs is excessive force. i do agree wth the verdict though whatintheworld

6:15pm Wed 22 Jan 14

siameselady says...

I think he deserves a medal!
I think he deserves a medal! siameselady

6:22pm Wed 22 Jan 14

Newportsucks85 says...

Top lad! Glad to hear he was not guilty, open n shut case really ! Bet he won't get robbed again now mwhaha!
Top lad! Glad to hear he was not guilty, open n shut case really ! Bet he won't get robbed again now mwhaha! Newportsucks85

6:22pm Wed 22 Jan 14

corpardguy says...

Wunnerful result.....can we put this punishment back into the "criminal code' please, along with Chemical (or otherwise) castration for rapists and child molesters. I think its the only thing the Koran has got going for it!

I don't think its excessive, considering in the US he could have quite legally shot the scum. You could argue they got off light!
Wunnerful result.....can we put this punishment back into the "criminal code' please, along with Chemical (or otherwise) castration for rapists and child molesters. I think its the only thing the Koran has got going for it! I don't think its excessive, considering in the US he could have quite legally shot the scum. You could argue they got off light! corpardguy

6:29pm Wed 22 Jan 14

ncfcr says...

whatintheworld wrote:
Aquarius wrote:
Any of the usual pompous attempts at justifying the case going forward from Gwent Police or the CPS?
i'll bite - you could argue that 3 broken limbs is excessive force.

i do agree wth the verdict though
Excellent verdict. The worrying thing however is that I doubt the verdict was returned as not guilty because of an epiphany amongst our legal system, more likely that there was insufficient evidence to prove the accusation of deliberate excessive force.

The legal system does nothing to stop idiots like this stealing other people's property, so a few weeks or months in plaster reflecting on a deserved beating will probably be a better deterrent.

Happy days.
[quote][p][bold]whatintheworld[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Aquarius[/bold] wrote: Any of the usual pompous attempts at justifying the case going forward from Gwent Police or the CPS?[/p][/quote]i'll bite - you could argue that 3 broken limbs is excessive force. i do agree wth the verdict though[/p][/quote]Excellent verdict. The worrying thing however is that I doubt the verdict was returned as not guilty because of an epiphany amongst our legal system, more likely that there was insufficient evidence to prove the accusation of deliberate excessive force. The legal system does nothing to stop idiots like this stealing other people's property, so a few weeks or months in plaster reflecting on a deserved beating will probably be a better deterrent. Happy days. ncfcr

6:29pm Wed 22 Jan 14

Paul F. McCourt says...

Very WELL DONE! Good on you! You work hard for what you've got and for these low lifes to think they can just come in and help themselves, like a free for all, they're wrong.
On TV here (New Zealand) we have this British series called "Crime Secrets Of. . ." about Cops and Robbers in Britain. Last night's programme was about Shop Lifters and how they brazenly load up on everything they can get their hands on and think they can get away with it. One evil little creep's excuse was, "I'm on me arse! What else am I suppossed to do?" Anyone seeing this programme may know that line if you saw it. I don't bother to watch that show, because it really disturbs me to see all of this crime. I say BREAK THEIR BLOODY FINGERS!!
It may interst you to know, EVERYONE IN WALES AND BRITAIN, that YOUR famous Bill of Rights 1689 very clearly says, ". . . and the People Shall be ARMED for THEIR PROTECTION According to Law." From what I read about this, it is STILL LEGAL today in Australia, New Zealand, Canada, ALL Commonwealth Countries, all English Speaking countries and All countries Colonised by the British. It CANNOT be Revoked, Ammended, Changed, Modified, Edited or IGNORED, either at the time of its being written, and in the years to come, and NOW. THAT is OUR Constitution.
Many people bang on about the American Bill of Rights and their 2nd Ammendment: "The Rights of The People To Keep and Bear Arms Shall Not Be Infringed." They took that from the BoR 1689, changed the wording so that there is NO WAY their Rights can and will be infringed, and made sure their Rights were set in stone. The only trouble with them is, they. . . ABUSE their Rights.
DEFEND yourselves against scumbags, and if, like here, YOU are arrested and not them (Typical! STUPID, NAZI POLICE! We have them, too!), quote the Bill of Rights 1689 and tell them that THEY are your Rights. It is also YOUR UNIVERSAL Rights! Your NATURAL Right to Defend Yourself. DON'T let them take your Rights from you!
KIa Kaha (Be Strong!)
P.S. I don't know what's going on here, but, there is NO SIGN of THe Bill of Rights 1689 anywhere here. We have to go into the Legislative stuff On Line to find it, and even then, they've hidden it. Unless you KNOW what it is, you'll never find it. They CAN'T get rid of it, but they can HIDE it from us. That is VERY WRONG, and I'm sure, ILLEGAL. What's your situation about the BoR 1689 in Wales? FIND IT! USE IT! ITS YOURS!
Very WELL DONE! Good on you! You work hard for what you've got and for these low lifes to think they can just come in and help themselves, like a free for all, they're wrong. On TV here (New Zealand) we have this British series called "Crime Secrets Of. . ." about Cops and Robbers in Britain. Last night's programme was about Shop Lifters and how they brazenly load up on everything they can get their hands on and think they can get away with it. One evil little creep's excuse was, "I'm on me arse! What else am I suppossed to do?" Anyone seeing this programme may know that line if you saw it. I don't bother to watch that show, because it really disturbs me to see all of this crime. I say BREAK THEIR BLOODY FINGERS!! It may interst you to know, EVERYONE IN WALES AND BRITAIN, that YOUR famous Bill of Rights 1689 very clearly says, ". . . and the People Shall be ARMED for THEIR PROTECTION According to Law." From what I read about this, it is STILL LEGAL today in Australia, New Zealand, Canada, ALL Commonwealth Countries, all English Speaking countries and All countries Colonised by the British. It CANNOT be Revoked, Ammended, Changed, Modified, Edited or IGNORED, either at the time of its being written, and in the years to come, and NOW. THAT is OUR Constitution. Many people bang on about the American Bill of Rights and their 2nd Ammendment: "The Rights of The People To Keep and Bear Arms Shall Not Be Infringed." They took that from the BoR 1689, changed the wording so that there is NO WAY their Rights can and will be infringed, and made sure their Rights were set in stone. The only trouble with them is, they. . . ABUSE their Rights. DEFEND yourselves against scumbags, and if, like here, YOU are arrested and not them (Typical! STUPID, NAZI POLICE! We have them, too!), quote the Bill of Rights 1689 and tell them that THEY are your Rights. It is also YOUR UNIVERSAL Rights! Your NATURAL Right to Defend Yourself. DON'T let them take your Rights from you! KIa Kaha (Be Strong!) P.S. I don't know what's going on here, but, there is NO SIGN of THe Bill of Rights 1689 anywhere here. We have to go into the Legislative stuff On Line to find it, and even then, they've hidden it. Unless you KNOW what it is, you'll never find it. They CAN'T get rid of it, but they can HIDE it from us. That is VERY WRONG, and I'm sure, ILLEGAL. What's your situation about the BoR 1689 in Wales? FIND IT! USE IT! ITS YOURS! Paul F. McCourt

6:39pm Wed 22 Jan 14

Paul F. McCourt says...

KIA KAHA not KLA Kaha.
WHat a Wallace!
KIA KAHA not KLA Kaha. WHat a Wallace! Paul F. McCourt

7:24pm Wed 22 Jan 14

whatintheworld says...

ncfcr wrote:
whatintheworld wrote:
Aquarius wrote:
Any of the usual pompous attempts at justifying the case going forward from Gwent Police or the CPS?
i'll bite - you could argue that 3 broken limbs is excessive force.

i do agree wth the verdict though
Excellent verdict. The worrying thing however is that I doubt the verdict was returned as not guilty because of an epiphany amongst our legal system, more likely that there was insufficient evidence to prove the accusation of deliberate excessive force.

The legal system does nothing to stop idiots like this stealing other people's property, so a few weeks or months in plaster reflecting on a deserved beating will probably be a better deterrent.

Happy days.
completely agree!
[quote][p][bold]ncfcr[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]whatintheworld[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Aquarius[/bold] wrote: Any of the usual pompous attempts at justifying the case going forward from Gwent Police or the CPS?[/p][/quote]i'll bite - you could argue that 3 broken limbs is excessive force. i do agree wth the verdict though[/p][/quote]Excellent verdict. The worrying thing however is that I doubt the verdict was returned as not guilty because of an epiphany amongst our legal system, more likely that there was insufficient evidence to prove the accusation of deliberate excessive force. The legal system does nothing to stop idiots like this stealing other people's property, so a few weeks or months in plaster reflecting on a deserved beating will probably be a better deterrent. Happy days.[/p][/quote]completely agree! whatintheworld

7:44pm Wed 22 Jan 14

blackandamber says...

Made my day.
Made my day. blackandamber

8:56pm Wed 22 Jan 14

Frankfurt says...

I guess that the fact that Mr Woodhouse tackled 2 men on his own and unarmed (initially) will have weighed heavily with the jury. A victory for law and order this one. Hopefully this jury verdict will educate the CPS about what cases they should bring forward in future.
I guess that the fact that Mr Woodhouse tackled 2 men on his own and unarmed (initially) will have weighed heavily with the jury. A victory for law and order this one. Hopefully this jury verdict will educate the CPS about what cases they should bring forward in future. Frankfurt

8:57pm Wed 22 Jan 14

Frankfurt says...

Oh, and thank God for juries. The best system there is.
Oh, and thank God for juries. The best system there is. Frankfurt

9:45pm Wed 22 Jan 14

emlynkide says...

justice, for the people.
justice, for the people. emlynkide

10:05pm Wed 22 Jan 14

LeCheese says...

People have acted very reactionary to this case and I think it's important to emphasize a few points that seem to go by most people, who seem to be mostly fueled by what they read in the Mail.

I definitely feel for the guy, and if his account is correct he was acting in self defense, and he's admitted to losing it which was both commendable and understandable in the circumstances, and something the law would have taken into account. Even without the rather loud-mouthed campaign it's unlikely he'd have gotten into any trouble.

The thing is the police would have been within their right to press charges against him. Ultimately he'd caused GBH on another person, and the only alternative account they had was from the person who'd committed the GBH. From a neutral standpoint, you can't just take his word for it and leave it at that, especially if the injuries were serious, and even if other crime was involved (you can't just do whatever the hell you like to someone because they've wronged you in some way and you feel entitled to retribution). There could've been a scenario where he apprehended a thief who'd stolen a minimal amount of property and beaten him within an inch of his life even if he wasn't a physical threat, and then claimed he was merely defending himself. I don't think this was the case, but the police can't just take someone's word for it if a potentially serious crime has been committed.

And no, you shouldn't have the right to do whatever the hell you like to someone who's trespassing or has trespassed on your property. The system in the US (as another posted in favor of) is utterly disastrous. Not only do you have countless instances of reactionary, stupid people shooting anyone turning up on their property (including people desperate for help, or confused Alzheimers sufferers who've forgotten where they were) and getting away with it because "muh property", but it's also a country with almost no public access to its natural geography, which is a massive factor in their obesity crisis as well as their general health and their basic rights as human beings.

We already had that system in the UK back in the Victorian era, and if you dared step outside your ghetto you'd likely be shot, or beaten, or lose a leg in a man trap set by an aristocrat who owned the land. Especially those of you in Abergavenny and Llanfoist, you're living in an area of astounding beauty, and believe you me if we had the sort of laws you seem to want you wouldn't even get to set foot on any of it. This is why people like David Davies and the Mail have been behind this man; because it represents a great excuse to get what THEY want at the cost of everybody else. The law and the legal system as it functions was already on his side, but unfortunately there are plenty of people who don't think anyone deserves any sort of public land rights and would rather have the vast swathes of the countryside to themselves. I'm guessing many of you from the area aren't millionaires and landowners, so don't be suckered in by the rhetoric.

That said it sounds like the best result was reached. Even if he acted well out of proportion of what was necessary no good would have come from sending him to prison. I've no idea who the thieves were or whether they'd been causing a lot of trouble elsewhere to begin with, but people acting out like that is sadly part of a greater sociological and societal problem happening across the UK, and especially in Wales and Abergavenny in particular, and chucking them in prison is unlikely to help matters in the long run, especially if we're not addressing the sociological causes of criminal behavior in the area (which the UK government and local council aren't particularly interested in doing).

In any case it's good to see Andrew didn't have to be another casualty in this incident, and I imagine many are happy to see him free. The best thing we can do now is try to properly address the causes of this behavior in this area (mostly poverty and poor education) so we don't end up with more situations where people have to deal with repeatedly being victims of crime and then potentially face criminal charges for how they react (the police were apparently reluctant to deal with previous robberies, which is something they really need to get their act together on).
People have acted very reactionary to this case and I think it's important to emphasize a few points that seem to go by most people, who seem to be mostly fueled by what they read in the Mail. I definitely feel for the guy, and if his account is correct he was acting in self defense, and he's admitted to losing it which was both commendable and understandable in the circumstances, and something the law would have taken into account. Even without the rather loud-mouthed campaign it's unlikely he'd have gotten into any trouble. The thing is the police would have been within their right to press charges against him. Ultimately he'd caused GBH on another person, and the only alternative account they had was from the person who'd committed the GBH. From a neutral standpoint, you can't just take his word for it and leave it at that, especially if the injuries were serious, and even if other crime was involved (you can't just do whatever the hell you like to someone because they've wronged you in some way and you feel entitled to retribution). There could've been a scenario where he apprehended a thief who'd stolen a minimal amount of property and beaten him within an inch of his life even if he wasn't a physical threat, and then claimed he was merely defending himself. I don't think this was the case, but the police can't just take someone's word for it if a potentially serious crime has been committed. And no, you shouldn't have the right to do whatever the hell you like to someone who's trespassing or has trespassed on your property. The system in the US (as another posted in favor of) is utterly disastrous. Not only do you have countless instances of reactionary, stupid people shooting anyone turning up on their property (including people desperate for help, or confused Alzheimers sufferers who've forgotten where they were) and getting away with it because "muh property", but it's also a country with almost no public access to its natural geography, which is a massive factor in their obesity crisis as well as their general health and their basic rights as human beings. We already had that system in the UK back in the Victorian era, and if you dared step outside your ghetto you'd likely be shot, or beaten, or lose a leg in a man trap set by an aristocrat who owned the land. Especially those of you in Abergavenny and Llanfoist, you're living in an area of astounding beauty, and believe you me if we had the sort of laws you seem to want you wouldn't even get to set foot on any of it. This is why people like David Davies and the Mail have been behind this man; because it represents a great excuse to get what THEY want at the cost of everybody else. The law and the legal system as it functions was already on his side, but unfortunately there are plenty of people who don't think anyone deserves any sort of public land rights and would rather have the vast swathes of the countryside to themselves. I'm guessing many of you from the area aren't millionaires and landowners, so don't be suckered in by the rhetoric. That said it sounds like the best result was reached. Even if he acted well out of proportion of what was necessary no good would have come from sending him to prison. I've no idea who the thieves were or whether they'd been causing a lot of trouble elsewhere to begin with, but people acting out like that is sadly part of a greater sociological and societal problem happening across the UK, and especially in Wales and Abergavenny in particular, and chucking them in prison is unlikely to help matters in the long run, especially if we're not addressing the sociological causes of criminal behavior in the area (which the UK government and local council aren't particularly interested in doing). In any case it's good to see Andrew didn't have to be another casualty in this incident, and I imagine many are happy to see him free. The best thing we can do now is try to properly address the causes of this behavior in this area (mostly poverty and poor education) so we don't end up with more situations where people have to deal with repeatedly being victims of crime and then potentially face criminal charges for how they react (the police were apparently reluctant to deal with previous robberies, which is something they really need to get their act together on). LeCheese

10:17pm Wed 22 Jan 14

Miss Thomas says...

Justice at last!!
Justice at last!! Miss Thomas

10:51pm Wed 22 Jan 14

jimmysmith says...

LeCheese wrote:
People have acted very reactionary to this case and I think it's important to emphasize a few points that seem to go by most people, who seem to be mostly fueled by what they read in the Mail.

I definitely feel for the guy, and if his account is correct he was acting in self defense, and he's admitted to losing it which was both commendable and understandable in the circumstances, and something the law would have taken into account. Even without the rather loud-mouthed campaign it's unlikely he'd have gotten into any trouble.

The thing is the police would have been within their right to press charges against him. Ultimately he'd caused GBH on another person, and the only alternative account they had was from the person who'd committed the GBH. From a neutral standpoint, you can't just take his word for it and leave it at that, especially if the injuries were serious, and even if other crime was involved (you can't just do whatever the hell you like to someone because they've wronged you in some way and you feel entitled to retribution). There could've been a scenario where he apprehended a thief who'd stolen a minimal amount of property and beaten him within an inch of his life even if he wasn't a physical threat, and then claimed he was merely defending himself. I don't think this was the case, but the police can't just take someone's word for it if a potentially serious crime has been committed.

And no, you shouldn't have the right to do whatever the hell you like to someone who's trespassing or has trespassed on your property. The system in the US (as another posted in favor of) is utterly disastrous. Not only do you have countless instances of reactionary, stupid people shooting anyone turning up on their property (including people desperate for help, or confused Alzheimers sufferers who've forgotten where they were) and getting away with it because "muh property", but it's also a country with almost no public access to its natural geography, which is a massive factor in their obesity crisis as well as their general health and their basic rights as human beings.

We already had that system in the UK back in the Victorian era, and if you dared step outside your ghetto you'd likely be shot, or beaten, or lose a leg in a man trap set by an aristocrat who owned the land. Especially those of you in Abergavenny and Llanfoist, you're living in an area of astounding beauty, and believe you me if we had the sort of laws you seem to want you wouldn't even get to set foot on any of it. This is why people like David Davies and the Mail have been behind this man; because it represents a great excuse to get what THEY want at the cost of everybody else. The law and the legal system as it functions was already on his side, but unfortunately there are plenty of people who don't think anyone deserves any sort of public land rights and would rather have the vast swathes of the countryside to themselves. I'm guessing many of you from the area aren't millionaires and landowners, so don't be suckered in by the rhetoric.

That said it sounds like the best result was reached. Even if he acted well out of proportion of what was necessary no good would have come from sending him to prison. I've no idea who the thieves were or whether they'd been causing a lot of trouble elsewhere to begin with, but people acting out like that is sadly part of a greater sociological and societal problem happening across the UK, and especially in Wales and Abergavenny in particular, and chucking them in prison is unlikely to help matters in the long run, especially if we're not addressing the sociological causes of criminal behavior in the area (which the UK government and local council aren't particularly interested in doing).

In any case it's good to see Andrew didn't have to be another casualty in this incident, and I imagine many are happy to see him free. The best thing we can do now is try to properly address the causes of this behavior in this area (mostly poverty and poor education) so we don't end up with more situations where people have to deal with repeatedly being victims of crime and then potentially face criminal charges for how they react (the police were apparently reluctant to deal with previous robberies, which is something they really need to get their act together on).
ive known andrew and his parents and theyre parents all my life .hes a very commendable and honest very hard working man .whos single handedly built up a very good business through sheer hard work .whilst on the other hand this thieving scum has systematically along with other well known vermin from saint faiths in llanfoist ,sit around all day drinking shop lifted alcohol .smoke dope .terrorise certain young single mothers living on the site so badly they cannot live in theyre own homes and can only visit theyre homes to collect baby clothes etc whilst accompanied by the police .as soon as darkness falls this vermin is out in force driving around unlicensed and uninsured stealing diesel and other property .abergavenny police have received hundreds of complaints about them over the years .held numerous meetings with gwerin housing and thats has far as it goes they do nothing at all about them .they burgled my brothers house the property was located at addresses in saint faiths ,the police did nothing .zilch .nana . one of them is now awaiting trial for car theft .nothing will come of it .andrew has the backing of the whole of abergavenny . and beyond .abergavenny police should get of theyre backsides and instead of crowding the town centre with bobbies just targetting innocent motorists with parking tickets .do some proper police work and clear this vermin out of llanfoist get em all locked away for a few years .because they are going to bankrupt some local businesses very soon
[quote][p][bold]LeCheese[/bold] wrote: People have acted very reactionary to this case and I think it's important to emphasize a few points that seem to go by most people, who seem to be mostly fueled by what they read in the Mail. I definitely feel for the guy, and if his account is correct he was acting in self defense, and he's admitted to losing it which was both commendable and understandable in the circumstances, and something the law would have taken into account. Even without the rather loud-mouthed campaign it's unlikely he'd have gotten into any trouble. The thing is the police would have been within their right to press charges against him. Ultimately he'd caused GBH on another person, and the only alternative account they had was from the person who'd committed the GBH. From a neutral standpoint, you can't just take his word for it and leave it at that, especially if the injuries were serious, and even if other crime was involved (you can't just do whatever the hell you like to someone because they've wronged you in some way and you feel entitled to retribution). There could've been a scenario where he apprehended a thief who'd stolen a minimal amount of property and beaten him within an inch of his life even if he wasn't a physical threat, and then claimed he was merely defending himself. I don't think this was the case, but the police can't just take someone's word for it if a potentially serious crime has been committed. And no, you shouldn't have the right to do whatever the hell you like to someone who's trespassing or has trespassed on your property. The system in the US (as another posted in favor of) is utterly disastrous. Not only do you have countless instances of reactionary, stupid people shooting anyone turning up on their property (including people desperate for help, or confused Alzheimers sufferers who've forgotten where they were) and getting away with it because "muh property", but it's also a country with almost no public access to its natural geography, which is a massive factor in their obesity crisis as well as their general health and their basic rights as human beings. We already had that system in the UK back in the Victorian era, and if you dared step outside your ghetto you'd likely be shot, or beaten, or lose a leg in a man trap set by an aristocrat who owned the land. Especially those of you in Abergavenny and Llanfoist, you're living in an area of astounding beauty, and believe you me if we had the sort of laws you seem to want you wouldn't even get to set foot on any of it. This is why people like David Davies and the Mail have been behind this man; because it represents a great excuse to get what THEY want at the cost of everybody else. The law and the legal system as it functions was already on his side, but unfortunately there are plenty of people who don't think anyone deserves any sort of public land rights and would rather have the vast swathes of the countryside to themselves. I'm guessing many of you from the area aren't millionaires and landowners, so don't be suckered in by the rhetoric. That said it sounds like the best result was reached. Even if he acted well out of proportion of what was necessary no good would have come from sending him to prison. I've no idea who the thieves were or whether they'd been causing a lot of trouble elsewhere to begin with, but people acting out like that is sadly part of a greater sociological and societal problem happening across the UK, and especially in Wales and Abergavenny in particular, and chucking them in prison is unlikely to help matters in the long run, especially if we're not addressing the sociological causes of criminal behavior in the area (which the UK government and local council aren't particularly interested in doing). In any case it's good to see Andrew didn't have to be another casualty in this incident, and I imagine many are happy to see him free. The best thing we can do now is try to properly address the causes of this behavior in this area (mostly poverty and poor education) so we don't end up with more situations where people have to deal with repeatedly being victims of crime and then potentially face criminal charges for how they react (the police were apparently reluctant to deal with previous robberies, which is something they really need to get their act together on).[/p][/quote]ive known andrew and his parents and theyre parents all my life .hes a very commendable and honest very hard working man .whos single handedly built up a very good business through sheer hard work .whilst on the other hand this thieving scum has systematically along with other well known vermin from saint faiths in llanfoist ,sit around all day drinking shop lifted alcohol .smoke dope .terrorise certain young single mothers living on the site so badly they cannot live in theyre own homes and can only visit theyre homes to collect baby clothes etc whilst accompanied by the police .as soon as darkness falls this vermin is out in force driving around unlicensed and uninsured stealing diesel and other property .abergavenny police have received hundreds of complaints about them over the years .held numerous meetings with gwerin housing and thats has far as it goes they do nothing at all about them .they burgled my brothers house the property was located at addresses in saint faiths ,the police did nothing .zilch .nana . one of them is now awaiting trial for car theft .nothing will come of it .andrew has the backing of the whole of abergavenny . and beyond .abergavenny police should get of theyre backsides and instead of crowding the town centre with bobbies just targetting innocent motorists with parking tickets .do some proper police work and clear this vermin out of llanfoist get em all locked away for a few years .because they are going to bankrupt some local businesses very soon jimmysmith

11:52pm Wed 22 Jan 14

Charles Street says...

Should never have gone to court, a total waste of public money. He should get a bravery medal and an apology from the police and CPS who seem completely out of touch with real life sometimes. If someone breaks into your property it's 'open season' as far as I'm concerned. The police and courts are so soft on the offenders it almost encourages them.
Should never have gone to court, a total waste of public money. He should get a bravery medal and an apology from the police and CPS who seem completely out of touch with real life sometimes. If someone breaks into your property it's 'open season' as far as I'm concerned. The police and courts are so soft on the offenders it almost encourages them. Charles Street

12:31am Thu 23 Jan 14

LeCheese says...

jimmysmith wrote:
LeCheese wrote:
People have acted very reactionary to this case and I think it's important to emphasize a few points that seem to go by most people, who seem to be mostly fueled by what they read in the Mail.

I definitely feel for the guy, and if his account is correct he was acting in self defense, and he's admitted to losing it which was both commendable and understandable in the circumstances, and something the law would have taken into account. Even without the rather loud-mouthed campaign it's unlikely he'd have gotten into any trouble.

The thing is the police would have been within their right to press charges against him. Ultimately he'd caused GBH on another person, and the only alternative account they had was from the person who'd committed the GBH. From a neutral standpoint, you can't just take his word for it and leave it at that, especially if the injuries were serious, and even if other crime was involved (you can't just do whatever the hell you like to someone because they've wronged you in some way and you feel entitled to retribution). There could've been a scenario where he apprehended a thief who'd stolen a minimal amount of property and beaten him within an inch of his life even if he wasn't a physical threat, and then claimed he was merely defending himself. I don't think this was the case, but the police can't just take someone's word for it if a potentially serious crime has been committed.

And no, you shouldn't have the right to do whatever the hell you like to someone who's trespassing or has trespassed on your property. The system in the US (as another posted in favor of) is utterly disastrous. Not only do you have countless instances of reactionary, stupid people shooting anyone turning up on their property (including people desperate for help, or confused Alzheimers sufferers who've forgotten where they were) and getting away with it because "muh property", but it's also a country with almost no public access to its natural geography, which is a massive factor in their obesity crisis as well as their general health and their basic rights as human beings.

We already had that system in the UK back in the Victorian era, and if you dared step outside your ghetto you'd likely be shot, or beaten, or lose a leg in a man trap set by an aristocrat who owned the land. Especially those of you in Abergavenny and Llanfoist, you're living in an area of astounding beauty, and believe you me if we had the sort of laws you seem to want you wouldn't even get to set foot on any of it. This is why people like David Davies and the Mail have been behind this man; because it represents a great excuse to get what THEY want at the cost of everybody else. The law and the legal system as it functions was already on his side, but unfortunately there are plenty of people who don't think anyone deserves any sort of public land rights and would rather have the vast swathes of the countryside to themselves. I'm guessing many of you from the area aren't millionaires and landowners, so don't be suckered in by the rhetoric.

That said it sounds like the best result was reached. Even if he acted well out of proportion of what was necessary no good would have come from sending him to prison. I've no idea who the thieves were or whether they'd been causing a lot of trouble elsewhere to begin with, but people acting out like that is sadly part of a greater sociological and societal problem happening across the UK, and especially in Wales and Abergavenny in particular, and chucking them in prison is unlikely to help matters in the long run, especially if we're not addressing the sociological causes of criminal behavior in the area (which the UK government and local council aren't particularly interested in doing).

In any case it's good to see Andrew didn't have to be another casualty in this incident, and I imagine many are happy to see him free. The best thing we can do now is try to properly address the causes of this behavior in this area (mostly poverty and poor education) so we don't end up with more situations where people have to deal with repeatedly being victims of crime and then potentially face criminal charges for how they react (the police were apparently reluctant to deal with previous robberies, which is something they really need to get their act together on).
ive known andrew and his parents and theyre parents all my life .hes a very commendable and honest very hard working man .whos single handedly built up a very good business through sheer hard work .whilst on the other hand this thieving scum has systematically along with other well known vermin from saint faiths in llanfoist ,sit around all day drinking shop lifted alcohol .smoke dope .terrorise certain young single mothers living on the site so badly they cannot live in theyre own homes and can only visit theyre homes to collect baby clothes etc whilst accompanied by the police .as soon as darkness falls this vermin is out in force driving around unlicensed and uninsured stealing diesel and other property .abergavenny police have received hundreds of complaints about them over the years .held numerous meetings with gwerin housing and thats has far as it goes they do nothing at all about them .they burgled my brothers house the property was located at addresses in saint faiths ,the police did nothing .zilch .nana . one of them is now awaiting trial for car theft .nothing will come of it .andrew has the backing of the whole of abergavenny . and beyond .abergavenny police should get of theyre backsides and instead of crowding the town centre with bobbies just targetting innocent motorists with parking tickets .do some proper police work and clear this vermin out of llanfoist get em all locked away for a few years .because they are going to bankrupt some local businesses very soon
Don't get me wrong I'm with Andrew on this one. There's also an a apparent problem with our police and especially among the youth there's very little trust. I'm just asking for a little realism given the situation. Even the most lenient cops would probably see cause for at least a charge if someone's put in a serious condition at hospital because they don't know what the circumstances were, and there would be a good possibility on their mind that the guy who put them in hospital might have behaved excessively. By the sounds of it Andy didn't. Two wrongs don't make a right, but given how he'd been ignored by the cops and then apparently attacked when he chased them it seemed like a perfectly understandable response. My point is I really feel bad that he had to go through what he did but ultimately the law's been on his side, and people should have been focused on that instead of the reactionary rhetoric I've been seeing ("more concern for the criminals", "i can do what I want if you trespass" etc) that's calling for measures that are not only unnecessary given the current law, but would ultimately kill off the rurality of Llanfoist more than even what all the bloody property developers have done.

If what you say is true I don't have any issue with them being sent to prison on principle. My issue's mostly to do with the grand scheme of things, as our current prison system's not going to reform or rehabilitate them in any way shape or form, and you'd probably get more value for money just handing over the tens of thousands to the criminal's family than giving it all to the criminals running the prison system. Wales as a whole has a serious poverty problem, and Aber and Llanfoist are no different, but successive governments have been more concerned with **** away money for big property developers than actually dealing with it, and if you're cultivating a whole generation of people like this and you have a police force that's incapable or unwilling to act when crime occurs you're just asking for more scenarios like this where otherwise decent people end up losing it and potentially face criminal charges that would ordinarily go to the sorts who shoot you on sight for setting foot on their country estate.
[quote][p][bold]jimmysmith[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LeCheese[/bold] wrote: People have acted very reactionary to this case and I think it's important to emphasize a few points that seem to go by most people, who seem to be mostly fueled by what they read in the Mail. I definitely feel for the guy, and if his account is correct he was acting in self defense, and he's admitted to losing it which was both commendable and understandable in the circumstances, and something the law would have taken into account. Even without the rather loud-mouthed campaign it's unlikely he'd have gotten into any trouble. The thing is the police would have been within their right to press charges against him. Ultimately he'd caused GBH on another person, and the only alternative account they had was from the person who'd committed the GBH. From a neutral standpoint, you can't just take his word for it and leave it at that, especially if the injuries were serious, and even if other crime was involved (you can't just do whatever the hell you like to someone because they've wronged you in some way and you feel entitled to retribution). There could've been a scenario where he apprehended a thief who'd stolen a minimal amount of property and beaten him within an inch of his life even if he wasn't a physical threat, and then claimed he was merely defending himself. I don't think this was the case, but the police can't just take someone's word for it if a potentially serious crime has been committed. And no, you shouldn't have the right to do whatever the hell you like to someone who's trespassing or has trespassed on your property. The system in the US (as another posted in favor of) is utterly disastrous. Not only do you have countless instances of reactionary, stupid people shooting anyone turning up on their property (including people desperate for help, or confused Alzheimers sufferers who've forgotten where they were) and getting away with it because "muh property", but it's also a country with almost no public access to its natural geography, which is a massive factor in their obesity crisis as well as their general health and their basic rights as human beings. We already had that system in the UK back in the Victorian era, and if you dared step outside your ghetto you'd likely be shot, or beaten, or lose a leg in a man trap set by an aristocrat who owned the land. Especially those of you in Abergavenny and Llanfoist, you're living in an area of astounding beauty, and believe you me if we had the sort of laws you seem to want you wouldn't even get to set foot on any of it. This is why people like David Davies and the Mail have been behind this man; because it represents a great excuse to get what THEY want at the cost of everybody else. The law and the legal system as it functions was already on his side, but unfortunately there are plenty of people who don't think anyone deserves any sort of public land rights and would rather have the vast swathes of the countryside to themselves. I'm guessing many of you from the area aren't millionaires and landowners, so don't be suckered in by the rhetoric. That said it sounds like the best result was reached. Even if he acted well out of proportion of what was necessary no good would have come from sending him to prison. I've no idea who the thieves were or whether they'd been causing a lot of trouble elsewhere to begin with, but people acting out like that is sadly part of a greater sociological and societal problem happening across the UK, and especially in Wales and Abergavenny in particular, and chucking them in prison is unlikely to help matters in the long run, especially if we're not addressing the sociological causes of criminal behavior in the area (which the UK government and local council aren't particularly interested in doing). In any case it's good to see Andrew didn't have to be another casualty in this incident, and I imagine many are happy to see him free. The best thing we can do now is try to properly address the causes of this behavior in this area (mostly poverty and poor education) so we don't end up with more situations where people have to deal with repeatedly being victims of crime and then potentially face criminal charges for how they react (the police were apparently reluctant to deal with previous robberies, which is something they really need to get their act together on).[/p][/quote]ive known andrew and his parents and theyre parents all my life .hes a very commendable and honest very hard working man .whos single handedly built up a very good business through sheer hard work .whilst on the other hand this thieving scum has systematically along with other well known vermin from saint faiths in llanfoist ,sit around all day drinking shop lifted alcohol .smoke dope .terrorise certain young single mothers living on the site so badly they cannot live in theyre own homes and can only visit theyre homes to collect baby clothes etc whilst accompanied by the police .as soon as darkness falls this vermin is out in force driving around unlicensed and uninsured stealing diesel and other property .abergavenny police have received hundreds of complaints about them over the years .held numerous meetings with gwerin housing and thats has far as it goes they do nothing at all about them .they burgled my brothers house the property was located at addresses in saint faiths ,the police did nothing .zilch .nana . one of them is now awaiting trial for car theft .nothing will come of it .andrew has the backing of the whole of abergavenny . and beyond .abergavenny police should get of theyre backsides and instead of crowding the town centre with bobbies just targetting innocent motorists with parking tickets .do some proper police work and clear this vermin out of llanfoist get em all locked away for a few years .because they are going to bankrupt some local businesses very soon[/p][/quote]Don't get me wrong I'm with Andrew on this one. There's also an a apparent problem with our police and especially among the youth there's very little trust. I'm just asking for a little realism given the situation. Even the most lenient cops would probably see cause for at least a charge if someone's put in a serious condition at hospital because they don't know what the circumstances were, and there would be a good possibility on their mind that the guy who put them in hospital might have behaved excessively. By the sounds of it Andy didn't. Two wrongs don't make a right, but given how he'd been ignored by the cops and then apparently attacked when he chased them it seemed like a perfectly understandable response. My point is I really feel bad that he had to go through what he did but ultimately the law's been on his side, and people should have been focused on that instead of the reactionary rhetoric I've been seeing ("more concern for the criminals", "i can do what I want if you trespass" etc) that's calling for measures that are not only unnecessary given the current law, but would ultimately kill off the rurality of Llanfoist more than even what all the bloody property developers have done. If what you say is true I don't have any issue with them being sent to prison on principle. My issue's mostly to do with the grand scheme of things, as our current prison system's not going to reform or rehabilitate them in any way shape or form, and you'd probably get more value for money just handing over the tens of thousands to the criminal's family than giving it all to the criminals running the prison system. Wales as a whole has a serious poverty problem, and Aber and Llanfoist are no different, but successive governments have been more concerned with **** away money for big property developers than actually dealing with it, and if you're cultivating a whole generation of people like this and you have a police force that's incapable or unwilling to act when crime occurs you're just asking for more scenarios like this where otherwise decent people end up losing it and potentially face criminal charges that would ordinarily go to the sorts who shoot you on sight for setting foot on their country estate. LeCheese

12:35am Thu 23 Jan 14

corpardguy says...

Mr LeCheese<
do not presume to blame poverty for this or any other crime. I was brought up in a poor neighborhood and I did not steal, nor was I uneducated because of it. Those are individual CHOICES, some may say the easy way out!
In fact people and families felt more bound by their circumstances and while they did not take pride in the fact they certainly helped each other out whenever possible and although the odd clip 'round the ear was dispensed (NOT child abuse but child education), it was a pretty peaceful area where kids could and did play in the street until dark and people actually talked to each other.
Mr LeCheese< do not presume to blame poverty for this or any other crime. I was brought up in a poor neighborhood and I did not steal, nor was I uneducated because of it. Those are individual CHOICES, some may say the easy way out! In fact people and families felt more bound by their circumstances and while they did not take pride in the fact they certainly helped each other out whenever possible and although the odd clip 'round the ear was dispensed (NOT child abuse but child education), it was a pretty peaceful area where kids could and did play in the street until dark and people actually talked to each other. corpardguy

1:30am Thu 23 Jan 14

bugsy93 says...

I hope he is awarded a medal for sorting out a problem that the Police, the courts and the CPS (Criminal Protection Service) have failed to deal with.
As taxpayers we are all entitled to expect a service for protecting our hard earned assets,not putting ourselves at risk in trying to do it ourselves.
Congratulations Andrew, lets hope our dim-wits in the judicial system will wake up to reality and from the public support that you have had, will stop pussyfooting around with the real scum of society and learn a lesson from this.
I hope he is awarded a medal for sorting out a problem that the Police, the courts and the CPS (Criminal Protection Service) have failed to deal with. As taxpayers we are all entitled to expect a service for protecting our hard earned assets,not putting ourselves at risk in trying to do it ourselves. Congratulations Andrew, lets hope our dim-wits in the judicial system will wake up to reality and from the public support that you have had, will stop pussyfooting around with the real scum of society and learn a lesson from this. bugsy93

8:46am Thu 23 Jan 14

rightsideup says...

They got what they deserved.Waste of public money bringing this prosecution.
They got what they deserved.Waste of public money bringing this prosecution. rightsideup

8:55am Thu 23 Jan 14

varteg1 says...

Regarding the comments about taking his actions too far, and what would the comments be had he not done so, and had himself suffered broken limbs, maybe even death at the hands of these people?

Form once, we the people have been well served b y the courts.
Regarding the comments about taking his actions too far, and what would the comments be had he not done so, and had himself suffered broken limbs, maybe even death at the hands of these people? Form once, we the people have been well served b y the courts. varteg1

9:31am Thu 23 Jan 14

whatintheworld says...

varteg1 wrote:
Regarding the comments about taking his actions too far, and what would the comments be had he not done so, and had himself suffered broken limbs, maybe even death at the hands of these people? Form once, we the people have been well served b y the courts.
take it the other way varteg. if the guy had accidently hit the robber on the head, and caused him to spend the rest of his life in a vegetative state, would it be ok for the defendant to get off then?

AGAIN I AGREE WITH THE VERDICT, but there is such a thing as an over-reaction.
[quote][p][bold]varteg1[/bold] wrote: Regarding the comments about taking his actions too far, and what would the comments be had he not done so, and had himself suffered broken limbs, maybe even death at the hands of these people? Form once, we the people have been well served b y the courts.[/p][/quote]take it the other way varteg. if the guy had accidently hit the robber on the head, and caused him to spend the rest of his life in a vegetative state, would it be ok for the defendant to get off then? AGAIN I AGREE WITH THE VERDICT, but there is such a thing as an over-reaction. whatintheworld

9:34am Thu 23 Jan 14

The Red Claw says...

whatintheworld wrote:
Aquarius wrote:
Any of the usual pompous attempts at justifying the case going forward from Gwent Police or the CPS?
i'll bite - you could argue that 3 broken limbs is excessive force.

i do agree wth the verdict though
The jury have had the opportunity to consider that arguement in open court and have dismissed it.
[quote][p][bold]whatintheworld[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Aquarius[/bold] wrote: Any of the usual pompous attempts at justifying the case going forward from Gwent Police or the CPS?[/p][/quote]i'll bite - you could argue that 3 broken limbs is excessive force. i do agree wth the verdict though[/p][/quote]The jury have had the opportunity to consider that arguement in open court and have dismissed it. The Red Claw

11:06am Thu 23 Jan 14

Jonnytrouble says...

Frankfurt wrote:
I guess that the fact that Mr Woodhouse tackled 2 men on his own and unarmed (initially) will have weighed heavily with the jury. A victory for law and order this one. Hopefully this jury verdict will educate the CPS about what cases they should bring forward in future.
Think it is past trying to 'Edumancate ' the CPS idiots and those coppers that even let it get that far and put a hard working person to go through hell..
Plus WE the tax payers had to pay for it once again,,,Grrrr
[quote][p][bold]Frankfurt[/bold] wrote: I guess that the fact that Mr Woodhouse tackled 2 men on his own and unarmed (initially) will have weighed heavily with the jury. A victory for law and order this one. Hopefully this jury verdict will educate the CPS about what cases they should bring forward in future.[/p][/quote]Think it is past trying to 'Edumancate ' the CPS idiots and those coppers that even let it get that far and put a hard working person to go through hell.. Plus WE the tax payers had to pay for it once again,,,Grrrr Jonnytrouble

11:25am Thu 23 Jan 14

Jonnytrouble says...

jimmysmith wrote:
LeCheese wrote:
People have acted very reactionary to this case and I think it's important to emphasize a few points that seem to go by most people, who seem to be mostly fueled by what they read in the Mail.

I definitely feel for the guy, and if his account is correct he was acting in self defense, and he's admitted to losing it which was both commendable and understandable in the circumstances, and something the law would have taken into account. Even without the rather loud-mouthed campaign it's unlikely he'd have gotten into any trouble.

The thing is the police would have been within their right to press charges against him. Ultimately he'd caused GBH on another person, and the only alternative account they had was from the person who'd committed the GBH. From a neutral standpoint, you can't just take his word for it and leave it at that, especially if the injuries were serious, and even if other crime was involved (you can't just do whatever the hell you like to someone because they've wronged you in some way and you feel entitled to retribution). There could've been a scenario where he apprehended a thief who'd stolen a minimal amount of property and beaten him within an inch of his life even if he wasn't a physical threat, and then claimed he was merely defending himself. I don't think this was the case, but the police can't just take someone's word for it if a potentially serious crime has been committed.

And no, you shouldn't have the right to do whatever the hell you like to someone who's trespassing or has trespassed on your property. The system in the US (as another posted in favor of) is utterly disastrous. Not only do you have countless instances of reactionary, stupid people shooting anyone turning up on their property (including people desperate for help, or confused Alzheimers sufferers who've forgotten where they were) and getting away with it because &quot;muh property", but it's also a country with almost no public access to its natural geography, which is a massive factor in their obesity crisis as well as their general health and their basic rights as human beings.

We already had that system in the UK back in the Victorian era, and if you dared step outside your ghetto you'd likely be shot, or beaten, or lose a leg in a man trap set by an aristocrat who owned the land. Especially those of you in Abergavenny and Llanfoist, you're living in an area of astounding beauty, and believe you me if we had the sort of laws you seem to want you wouldn't even get to set foot on any of it. This is why people like David Davies and the Mail have been behind this man; because it represents a great excuse to get what THEY want at the cost of everybody else. The law and the legal system as it functions was already on his side, but unfortunately there are plenty of people who don't think anyone deserves any sort of public land rights and would rather have the vast swathes of the countryside to themselves. I'm guessing many of you from the area aren't millionaires and landowners, so don't be suckered in by the rhetoric.

That said it sounds like the best result was reached. Even if he acted well out of proportion of what was necessary no good would have come from sending him to prison. I've no idea who the thieves were or whether they'd been causing a lot of trouble elsewhere to begin with, but people acting out like that is sadly part of a greater sociological and societal problem happening across the UK, and especially in Wales and Abergavenny in particular, and chucking them in prison is unlikely to help matters in the long run, especially if we're not addressing the sociological causes of criminal behavior in the area (which the UK government and local council aren't particularly interested in doing).

In any case it's good to see Andrew didn't have to be another casualty in this incident, and I imagine many are happy to see him free. The best thing we can do now is try to properly address the causes of this behavior in this area (mostly poverty and poor education) so we don't end up with more situations where people have to deal with repeatedly being victims of crime and then potentially face criminal charges for how they react (the police were apparently reluctant to deal with previous robberies, which is something they really need to get their act together on).
ive known andrew and his parents and theyre parents all my life .hes a very commendable and honest very hard working man .whos single handedly built up a very good business through sheer hard work .whilst on the other hand this thieving scum has systematically along with other well known vermin from saint faiths in llanfoist ,sit around all day drinking shop lifted alcohol .smoke dope .terrorise certain young single mothers living on the site so badly they cannot live in theyre own homes and can only visit theyre homes to collect baby clothes etc whilst accompanied by the police .as soon as darkness falls this vermin is out in force driving around unlicensed and uninsured stealing diesel and other property .abergavenny police have received hundreds of complaints about them over the years .held numerous meetings with gwerin housing and thats has far as it goes they do nothing at all about them .they burgled my brothers house the property was located at addresses in saint faiths ,the police did nothing .zilch .nana . one of them is now awaiting trial for car theft .nothing will come of it .andrew has the backing of the whole of abergavenny . and beyond .abergavenny police should get of theyre backsides and instead of crowding the town centre with bobbies just targetting innocent motorists with parking tickets .do some proper police work and clear this vermin out of llanfoist get em all locked away for a few years .because they are going to bankrupt some local businesses very soon
I remember a long while back that police force attacking with brute force smashing the hell out of his windows and dragging an old man out of his car for failing to stop and we never heard of them being given the sack did we!
The video evidence shown that of these so called professional police officer's was appalling and they I expect still work in that area when they should have been sacked !!!
One law for one and one law for other in Abergavenny area it seams....Commissione
r investigate this badly run force !
[quote][p][bold]jimmysmith[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LeCheese[/bold] wrote: People have acted very reactionary to this case and I think it's important to emphasize a few points that seem to go by most people, who seem to be mostly fueled by what they read in the Mail. I definitely feel for the guy, and if his account is correct he was acting in self defense, and he's admitted to losing it which was both commendable and understandable in the circumstances, and something the law would have taken into account. Even without the rather loud-mouthed campaign it's unlikely he'd have gotten into any trouble. The thing is the police would have been within their right to press charges against him. Ultimately he'd caused GBH on another person, and the only alternative account they had was from the person who'd committed the GBH. From a neutral standpoint, you can't just take his word for it and leave it at that, especially if the injuries were serious, and even if other crime was involved (you can't just do whatever the hell you like to someone because they've wronged you in some way and you feel entitled to retribution). There could've been a scenario where he apprehended a thief who'd stolen a minimal amount of property and beaten him within an inch of his life even if he wasn't a physical threat, and then claimed he was merely defending himself. I don't think this was the case, but the police can't just take someone's word for it if a potentially serious crime has been committed. And no, you shouldn't have the right to do whatever the hell you like to someone who's trespassing or has trespassed on your property. The system in the US (as another posted in favor of) is utterly disastrous. Not only do you have countless instances of reactionary, stupid people shooting anyone turning up on their property (including people desperate for help, or confused Alzheimers sufferers who've forgotten where they were) and getting away with it because "muh property", but it's also a country with almost no public access to its natural geography, which is a massive factor in their obesity crisis as well as their general health and their basic rights as human beings. We already had that system in the UK back in the Victorian era, and if you dared step outside your ghetto you'd likely be shot, or beaten, or lose a leg in a man trap set by an aristocrat who owned the land. Especially those of you in Abergavenny and Llanfoist, you're living in an area of astounding beauty, and believe you me if we had the sort of laws you seem to want you wouldn't even get to set foot on any of it. This is why people like David Davies and the Mail have been behind this man; because it represents a great excuse to get what THEY want at the cost of everybody else. The law and the legal system as it functions was already on his side, but unfortunately there are plenty of people who don't think anyone deserves any sort of public land rights and would rather have the vast swathes of the countryside to themselves. I'm guessing many of you from the area aren't millionaires and landowners, so don't be suckered in by the rhetoric. That said it sounds like the best result was reached. Even if he acted well out of proportion of what was necessary no good would have come from sending him to prison. I've no idea who the thieves were or whether they'd been causing a lot of trouble elsewhere to begin with, but people acting out like that is sadly part of a greater sociological and societal problem happening across the UK, and especially in Wales and Abergavenny in particular, and chucking them in prison is unlikely to help matters in the long run, especially if we're not addressing the sociological causes of criminal behavior in the area (which the UK government and local council aren't particularly interested in doing). In any case it's good to see Andrew didn't have to be another casualty in this incident, and I imagine many are happy to see him free. The best thing we can do now is try to properly address the causes of this behavior in this area (mostly poverty and poor education) so we don't end up with more situations where people have to deal with repeatedly being victims of crime and then potentially face criminal charges for how they react (the police were apparently reluctant to deal with previous robberies, which is something they really need to get their act together on).[/p][/quote]ive known andrew and his parents and theyre parents all my life .hes a very commendable and honest very hard working man .whos single handedly built up a very good business through sheer hard work .whilst on the other hand this thieving scum has systematically along with other well known vermin from saint faiths in llanfoist ,sit around all day drinking shop lifted alcohol .smoke dope .terrorise certain young single mothers living on the site so badly they cannot live in theyre own homes and can only visit theyre homes to collect baby clothes etc whilst accompanied by the police .as soon as darkness falls this vermin is out in force driving around unlicensed and uninsured stealing diesel and other property .abergavenny police have received hundreds of complaints about them over the years .held numerous meetings with gwerin housing and thats has far as it goes they do nothing at all about them .they burgled my brothers house the property was located at addresses in saint faiths ,the police did nothing .zilch .nana . one of them is now awaiting trial for car theft .nothing will come of it .andrew has the backing of the whole of abergavenny . and beyond .abergavenny police should get of theyre backsides and instead of crowding the town centre with bobbies just targetting innocent motorists with parking tickets .do some proper police work and clear this vermin out of llanfoist get em all locked away for a few years .because they are going to bankrupt some local businesses very soon[/p][/quote]I remember a long while back that police force attacking with brute force smashing the hell out of his windows and dragging an old man out of his car for failing to stop and we never heard of them being given the sack did we! The video evidence shown that of these so called professional police officer's was appalling and they I expect still work in that area when they should have been sacked !!! One law for one and one law for other in Abergavenny area it seams....Commissione r investigate this badly run force ! Jonnytrouble

11:35am Thu 23 Jan 14

Aquarius says...

whatintheworld wrote:
Aquarius wrote:
Any of the usual pompous attempts at justifying the case going forward from Gwent Police or the CPS?
i'll bite - you could argue that 3 broken limbs is excessive force.

i do agree wth the verdict though
Agreed (sort of).

At the end of the day its not unlikely that someone would get fired up if their property is at risk. I suppose he could have thrown stones at them instead...

The police of course at the end of the day are in a cleft stick. They are required to investigate and then put their findings to the CPS and ultimately the courts to decide. Pity they all seem to get the balance wrong so often, that's all.
[quote][p][bold]whatintheworld[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Aquarius[/bold] wrote: Any of the usual pompous attempts at justifying the case going forward from Gwent Police or the CPS?[/p][/quote]i'll bite - you could argue that 3 broken limbs is excessive force. i do agree wth the verdict though[/p][/quote]Agreed (sort of). At the end of the day its not unlikely that someone would get fired up if their property is at risk. I suppose he could have thrown stones at them instead... The police of course at the end of the day are in a cleft stick. They are required to investigate and then put their findings to the CPS and ultimately the courts to decide. Pity they all seem to get the balance wrong so often, that's all. Aquarius

1:56pm Thu 23 Jan 14

Dai Rear says...

LeCheese reflects exactly what I would expect from the last 2 Directors of Public Prosecutions, Lord MacDonald a Social Democrat-Liberal peer and Starmer shortly to be a prospective Labour parliamentary candidate . When you know that the heads of the Crown Prosecution Service for the last 10 years and up have been part of the tiny West Hampstead Oligarchy which holds this country by the intimate parts that's all you need to know to explain the CPS decision.
WELL DONE SENSIBLE JURY!!
LeCheese reflects exactly what I would expect from the last 2 Directors of Public Prosecutions, Lord MacDonald a Social Democrat-Liberal peer and Starmer shortly to be a prospective Labour parliamentary candidate . When you know that the heads of the Crown Prosecution Service for the last 10 years and up have been part of the tiny West Hampstead Oligarchy which holds this country by the intimate parts that's all you need to know to explain the CPS decision. WELL DONE SENSIBLE JURY!! Dai Rear

4:25pm Thu 23 Jan 14

varteg1 says...

whatintheworld wrote:
varteg1 wrote:
Regarding the comments about taking his actions too far, and what would the comments be had he not done so, and had himself suffered broken limbs, maybe even death at the hands of these people? Form once, we the people have been well served b y the courts.
take it the other way varteg. if the guy had accidently hit the robber on the head, and caused him to spend the rest of his life in a vegetative state, would it be ok for the defendant to get off then?

AGAIN I AGREE WITH THE VERDICT, but there is such a thing as an over-reaction.
If I exceed the speed limit, I get caught, I pay the fine etc, what next then, I sue the police for fining me?

I steal a piece of equipment from a hospital, that has massive amounts of essential data on it, causing a massive amount of problems for the staff in treating patients, the item I then plug in, and electrocute myself, what then,.. I sue the NHS for my trauma?

I climb a power pylon and get shocked, I fall and in hitting the ground I get seriously injured, what then,.. I sue the land owner for placing the ground beneath me so that in falling and hitting it, I get injured?

Or to make it expressly clear, these guys went on to someone elses property, they placed themselves in danger, they deserved what they got, and if a life term of mental retardation had been their fate, serve them right.

The matter of 'over reaction' is a matter of perception, I believe we have gone too far the other way, to the extent that NO reaction at all is legally tolerated, unless you can prove to a point of certainty that you, or your family were in danger of fatal results.
It may be a case of over reaction when, as a third party observer you are not the victim, I wonder though what your personal reaction would be if faced with two or more attackers?

If emergency crews were to operate on a similar principle to much police style reaction these days, I could well see accident victims dropping dead for want of attendance by those crews.
My personal experience has been the police turn out when it's at their convenience, and it must be said, in Woodhouse's situation, I would be quite likely to overreact, but I would see it as apparently the jury saw it, JUSTIFIABLY.
[quote][p][bold]whatintheworld[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]varteg1[/bold] wrote: Regarding the comments about taking his actions too far, and what would the comments be had he not done so, and had himself suffered broken limbs, maybe even death at the hands of these people? Form once, we the people have been well served b y the courts.[/p][/quote]take it the other way varteg. if the guy had accidently hit the robber on the head, and caused him to spend the rest of his life in a vegetative state, would it be ok for the defendant to get off then? AGAIN I AGREE WITH THE VERDICT, but there is such a thing as an over-reaction.[/p][/quote]If I exceed the speed limit, I get caught, I pay the fine etc, what next then, I sue the police for fining me? I steal a piece of equipment from a hospital, that has massive amounts of essential data on it, causing a massive amount of problems for the staff in treating patients, the item I then plug in, and electrocute myself, what then,.. I sue the NHS for my trauma? I climb a power pylon and get shocked, I fall and in hitting the ground I get seriously injured, what then,.. I sue the land owner for placing the ground beneath me so that in falling and hitting it, I get injured? Or to make it expressly clear, these guys went on to someone elses property, they placed themselves in danger, they deserved what they got, and if a life term of mental retardation had been their fate, serve them right. The matter of 'over reaction' is a matter of perception, I believe we have gone too far the other way, to the extent that NO reaction at all is legally tolerated, unless you can prove to a point of certainty that you, or your family were in danger of fatal results. It may be a case of over reaction when, as a third party observer you are not the victim, I wonder though what your personal reaction would be if faced with two or more attackers? If emergency crews were to operate on a similar principle to much police style reaction these days, I could well see accident victims dropping dead for want of attendance by those crews. My personal experience has been the police turn out when it's at their convenience, and it must be said, in Woodhouse's situation, I would be quite likely to overreact, but I would see it as apparently the jury saw it, JUSTIFIABLY. varteg1

4:40pm Thu 23 Jan 14

Dai Rear says...

The key to a quick police response would have been for Mr Woodhouse to say that the 2 dimbos were gypsies and he was feeling very racist about them. Old Bill'd have been there to arrest him before he put the phone down.
The key to a quick police response would have been for Mr Woodhouse to say that the 2 dimbos were gypsies and he was feeling very racist about them. Old Bill'd have been there to arrest him before he put the phone down. Dai Rear

6:23pm Thu 23 Jan 14

Paul F. McCourt says...

In the good old days, these theiving rodents would've been. . . "Cwucified! Bweak their legs, Centuwian!! And their arms. They need to learn that they have done wong."
Yes, wather. . . er, RATHER extreme, but, as an earlier entry said, in the US, they could've been LEGALLY Shot! and, not mentioned was, they would've been armed, too. JUSTIFIED!!
Crime is rife, and WE are victims to both the crims AND the police here in NZ. I take it its the same thing in the UK and Wales. THe Victims are ALWAYS victims, and the crims have ALL the rights. I say they LOSE their rights they moment the commit their crimes. WE chould be more Protected, or be able to DEFEND Ourselves. See above on The Bill of Rights 1689. USE IT!
In the good old days, these theiving rodents would've been. . . "Cwucified! Bweak their legs, Centuwian!! And their arms. They need to learn that they have done wong." Yes, wather. . . er, RATHER extreme, but, as an earlier entry said, in the US, they could've been LEGALLY Shot! and, not mentioned was, they would've been armed, too. JUSTIFIED!! Crime is rife, and WE are victims to both the crims AND the police here in NZ. I take it its the same thing in the UK and Wales. THe Victims are ALWAYS victims, and the crims have ALL the rights. I say they LOSE their rights they moment the commit their crimes. WE chould be more Protected, or be able to DEFEND Ourselves. See above on The Bill of Rights 1689. USE IT! Paul F. McCourt

8:23pm Thu 23 Jan 14

cymruamblyth says...

whatintheworld wrote:
varteg1 wrote:
Regarding the comments about taking his actions too far, and what would the comments be had he not done so, and had himself suffered broken limbs, maybe even death at the hands of these people? Form once, we the people have been well served b y the courts.
take it the other way varteg. if the guy had accidently hit the robber on the head, and caused him to spend the rest of his life in a vegetative state, would it be ok for the defendant to get off then?

AGAIN I AGREE WITH THE VERDICT, but there is such a thing as an over-reaction.
Words fail me obviously they fail you to! Probably 98% of the population think the Guardian worldview is a joke, but the leftie mind is so emotionally involved in its ideology that it cannot cope with dissent..

Also Einstein they attacked him with the plank knocking him to the floor.. He overpowered them and defended himself.. Should they also be charged with per-meditated assault going armed to a robbery
[quote][p][bold]whatintheworld[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]varteg1[/bold] wrote: Regarding the comments about taking his actions too far, and what would the comments be had he not done so, and had himself suffered broken limbs, maybe even death at the hands of these people? Form once, we the people have been well served b y the courts.[/p][/quote]take it the other way varteg. if the guy had accidently hit the robber on the head, and caused him to spend the rest of his life in a vegetative state, would it be ok for the defendant to get off then? AGAIN I AGREE WITH THE VERDICT, but there is such a thing as an over-reaction.[/p][/quote]Words fail me obviously they fail you to! Probably 98% of the population think the Guardian worldview is a joke, but the leftie mind is so emotionally involved in its ideology that it cannot cope with dissent.. Also Einstein they attacked him with the plank knocking him to the floor.. He overpowered them and defended himself.. Should they also be charged with per-meditated assault going armed to a robbery cymruamblyth

7:40pm Fri 24 Jan 14

redlas1348 says...

Andrew is a hero, I was burgled by a scumbag known to the police as a serial offender. There was little evidence but the guy was identified by a neighbour and known to be local. If only I'd caught the guy in the act like Andrew I might at least not be so annoyed with the world.
Andrew is a hero, I was burgled by a scumbag known to the police as a serial offender. There was little evidence but the guy was identified by a neighbour and known to be local. If only I'd caught the guy in the act like Andrew I might at least not be so annoyed with the world. redlas1348

8:18pm Fri 24 Jan 14

Mervyn James says...

These criminals ought to be downright grateful they live in the UK, which puts the victims rights below the criminals. In the USA they would have been shot, end of.... 3 cheers for Andrew...
These criminals ought to be downright grateful they live in the UK, which puts the victims rights below the criminals. In the USA they would have been shot, end of.... 3 cheers for Andrew... Mervyn James

8:59am Sat 25 Jan 14

Dai Rear says...

"We already had that system in the UK back in the Victorian era, and if you dared step outside your ghetto you'd likely be shot, or beaten, or lose a leg in a man trap set by an aristocrat who owned the land. " And it was prohibited by the Offences Against The Person act 1861, but I'd not expect a Trot to have studied history before 1917.
Moreover people bisected by spring guns before 1861 might have been poaching through hunger. You cannot seriously equate them with these 2 no hopers, pumped full of welfare cash and given massive incentives to bring hordes of unemployable children into the world.
"We already had that system in the UK back in the Victorian era, and if you dared step outside your ghetto you'd likely be shot, or beaten, or lose a leg in a man trap set by an aristocrat who owned the land. " And it was prohibited by the Offences Against The Person act 1861, but I'd not expect a Trot to have studied history before 1917. Moreover people bisected by spring guns before 1861 might have been poaching through hunger. You cannot seriously equate them with these 2 no hopers, pumped full of welfare cash and given massive incentives to bring hordes of unemployable children into the world. Dai Rear

Comments are closed on this article.

click2find

About cookies

We want you to enjoy your visit to our website. That's why we use cookies to enhance your experience. By staying on our website you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more about the cookies we use.

I agree