Ex-Gwent PC claims crime figures were fiddled

South Wales Argus: ALLEGATIONS: A former PC has made claims about the way crimes were recorded. The picture above is for illustrative purposes only ALLEGATIONS: A former PC has made claims about the way crimes were recorded. The picture above is for illustrative purposes only

A FORMER policeman has alleged that a senior Gwent Police officer asked PCs to reclassify offences amid pressure over crime figures.

He claims that PCs were asked to deal with categorise people involved in fights involving alcohol as drunk and disorderly cases, rather than a different public order offence.

He also said they had been told to classify harassment cases differently.

The former Gwent PC, who does not want to be identified but is understood to have served in the force for some 30 years, said he and others were briefed in Newport Central Police Station around a year ago.

Nick Smith, MP for Blaenau Gwent, said the allegations were credible and it was troubling if officers ever reclassified crimes in such a way.

In 2013, Police and Crime Commissioner Ian Johnston alleged that officers were recording offences as less serious crimes in a bid to cut official offending rates.

The claim led to a row with the then chief constable Carmel Napier, who was later forced to retire from her post after a dispute with Mr Johnston.

The former officer told the Argus: “It’s not a disgruntled PC that is speaking here.

“I’m speaking as a member of the public who sees the wrong in what was going on.”

He claimed that in early 2013 a shift was briefed in Newport Central Police Station by a senior officer, who said that if officers were dealing with a fight that involved alcohol they should class it as a drunk and disorderly case, instead of a public order offence.

The former PC also claimed officers were told that, in harassment cases, if the nature of the harassment it was a matter of continuous telephone calls, they should be dealt with in a way that meant it wasn’t classed as a crime.

“Every time you go in for a shift you get a briefing off your sergeants,” said the former PC.

“On this occasion we had a visit from an inspector sent to discuss crime figures.

“We were on an afternoon shift.

“We were told in no uncertain terms these were matters to be implemented. It was getting to the stage that we were saying, ‘no that’s not right’.”

He said that if officers didn’t do this, they would be ‘spoken to’.

The former PC also claimed that some officers had been admonished in one case for arresting people under a public order offence instead of categorising it as a drunk and disorderly.

Mr Smith said he had discussed the officer’s concerns with deputy police and crime commissioner Paul Harris.

He said of the harassment and public order concerns: “If either of these events happened even once, it is troubling.

“When services are statistic-based and target-based, as they now seem to have been previously, the service suffers.

“I have repeatedly called for confidence in our crime figures to be more reliable, and these events cannot be ignored for the future,” he said.

Mr Smith said he had previously asked the Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary to look at what had taken place under the previous regime at Gwent Police.

“They are credible allegations from a long serving police officer. It’s important that they are heard,” he added.

'Accurate statistics key to public confidence'

South Wales Argus: BUSY: Jeff Farrar said all four and five star hotels between Swindon and Swansea are booked up with delegates

THE chief constable of Gwent Police said the force is to look into the full details of the allegations which will be investigated thoroughly.

Jeff Farrar said: “This is the first I have seen of the allegations raised by MP Nick Smith and I take them extremely seriously.

“Mr Smith’s office will be contacted as soon as possible to establish the full details of these allegations, which will be investigated thoroughly.

“Whilst extremely concerning the allegations do appear to be historic and not reflective of my commitment to record crime in an ethical way.”

The police and crime commissioner for Gwent, Ian Johnston, said he agreed with Nick Smith and had his views on the impact arbitrary targets can have on crime recording clear on numerous occasions."

He said that following an internal review of crime recording steps were taken to address issues around the concerns he raised and about some areas highlighted in the review.

“The chief constable has also made it perfectly clear to everyone in the force that ethical and accurate crime recording is essential to provide the public with confidence in the service,” he said.

"I’m happy with the direction the force is now taking.”

Comments (25)

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10:48am Thu 30 Jan 14

gathin says...

Dodgy coppers doing dodgy politicians deeds?
What a surprise hehe.
Dodgy coppers doing dodgy politicians deeds? What a surprise hehe. gathin
  • Score: 5

11:09am Thu 30 Jan 14

Miss healthy says...

My elderly mother was a victim during this period and was subjected to harassment from tenants either side of her property. No urgency was attached to her situation which nearly drove her to a nervous breakdown. The police treated It with nothing more than disdain.
My elderly mother was a victim during this period and was subjected to harassment from tenants either side of her property. No urgency was attached to her situation which nearly drove her to a nervous breakdown. The police treated It with nothing more than disdain. Miss healthy
  • Score: 12

11:12am Thu 30 Jan 14

ex-St. Julians boy says...

Fascinating stuff! Now tell us something we don't know already.
Fascinating stuff! Now tell us something we don't know already. ex-St. Julians boy
  • Score: 13

11:29am Thu 30 Jan 14

Abertillery29 says...

This is nothing new. In 1969 I was taken off patrol to be given 'words of advice' by a Detective Sergeant. I had put in a crime complaint for an attempted burglary and was told in no uncertain terms to reclassify it as criminal damage despite the fact that we were having a spate of house burglaries in the area.
The time for meaningless words from the Gwent Chief Constable and PCC has to end so that the people of Gwent will start reporting matters knowing that they will be correctly logged.
This is nothing new. In 1969 I was taken off patrol to be given 'words of advice' by a Detective Sergeant. I had put in a crime complaint for an attempted burglary and was told in no uncertain terms to reclassify it as criminal damage despite the fact that we were having a spate of house burglaries in the area. The time for meaningless words from the Gwent Chief Constable and PCC has to end so that the people of Gwent will start reporting matters knowing that they will be correctly logged. Abertillery29
  • Score: 17

11:41am Thu 30 Jan 14

Nig says...

What did Mr Johnson know about this , he is a former senior officer of some 3o years , who finished with the police a few months before becoming commissioner, What did he know about this when he confronted the former chief constable
What did Mr Johnson know about this , he is a former senior officer of some 3o years , who finished with the police a few months before becoming commissioner, What did he know about this when he confronted the former chief constable Nig
  • Score: 10

11:43am Thu 30 Jan 14

susywest says...

A long time ago a policeman told me that if they were investagating a person and they turned out to be illegal immigrants, they had been told not to take any action as there were too many of these people and they could not cope with them. WHere is the law in this country? Why aren't we building more prisons? The more immigrants pooring in to this country the bigger the population and the more crimes there will be but no one seems to be addressing this problem, along with more schools hospital etc, the government don't seem to have the sense they were born with
A long time ago a policeman told me that if they were investagating a person and they turned out to be illegal immigrants, they had been told not to take any action as there were too many of these people and they could not cope with them. WHere is the law in this country? Why aren't we building more prisons? The more immigrants pooring in to this country the bigger the population and the more crimes there will be but no one seems to be addressing this problem, along with more schools hospital etc, the government don't seem to have the sense they were born with susywest
  • Score: 12

12:34pm Thu 30 Jan 14

welshmen says...

The Police are there to protect the Public, they are "Public Servants", in the years they have leaned towards their paymasters and acted accordingly, Like the BBC, the Police should conduct their work impartial to out side political pressure, but as we have seen with the BBC this is not the case, they continue to promote the Left and Immigration, the Police have been instructed by Senior ministers to ignore immigrants and radical Muslims and too harass any Public body that go against that political directive, we need courage to change or lose our Country, the gagging law by this Government has been voted for, 245 fore 245 against, a draw is a win for Government....
The Police are there to protect the Public, they are "Public Servants", in the years they have leaned towards their paymasters and acted accordingly, Like the BBC, the Police should conduct their work impartial to out side political pressure, but as we have seen with the BBC this is not the case, they continue to promote the Left and Immigration, the Police have been instructed by Senior ministers to ignore immigrants and radical Muslims and too harass any Public body that go against that political directive, we need courage to change or lose our Country, the gagging law by this Government has been voted for, 245 fore 245 against, a draw is a win for Government.... welshmen
  • Score: 8

12:35pm Thu 30 Jan 14

DavidMclean says...

susywest wrote:
A long time ago a policeman told me that if they were investagating a person and they turned out to be illegal immigrants, they had been told not to take any action as there were too many of these people and they could not cope with them. WHere is the law in this country? Why aren't we building more prisons? The more immigrants pooring in to this country the bigger the population and the more crimes there will be but no one seems to be addressing this problem, along with more schools hospital etc, the government don't seem to have the sense they were born with
I sometimes forget that all crime is committed by foreigners. Thanks for reminding me.
[quote][p][bold]susywest[/bold] wrote: A long time ago a policeman told me that if they were investagating a person and they turned out to be illegal immigrants, they had been told not to take any action as there were too many of these people and they could not cope with them. WHere is the law in this country? Why aren't we building more prisons? The more immigrants pooring in to this country the bigger the population and the more crimes there will be but no one seems to be addressing this problem, along with more schools hospital etc, the government don't seem to have the sense they were born with[/p][/quote]I sometimes forget that all crime is committed by foreigners. Thanks for reminding me. DavidMclean
  • Score: 7

12:57pm Thu 30 Jan 14

jerymp says...

What many people seem to forget is that the police officer stopping you for using a mobile while driving, trying to arrest some violent drunk, attending a road accident, attempting to sort out some argument between neighbours, looking for a missing child, confronting a hyped up murderous mob at some demonstration etc etc will not be one of the people who make these rules and decisions but an ordinary person like you doing an often difficult and unpleasant job and is probably just as fed up with the situation as you but in addition has to put up with it every day
What many people seem to forget is that the police officer stopping you for using a mobile while driving, trying to arrest some violent drunk, attending a road accident, attempting to sort out some argument between neighbours, looking for a missing child, confronting a hyped up murderous mob at some demonstration etc etc will not be one of the people who make these rules and decisions but an ordinary person like you doing an often difficult and unpleasant job and is probably just as fed up with the situation as you but in addition has to put up with it every day jerymp
  • Score: 30

1:05pm Thu 30 Jan 14

DDDog1 says...

susywest wrote:
A long time ago a policeman told me that if they were investagating a person and they turned out to be illegal immigrants, they had been told not to take any action as there were too many of these people and they could not cope with them. WHere is the law in this country? Why aren't we building more prisons? The more immigrants pooring in to this country the bigger the population and the more crimes there will be but no one seems to be addressing this problem, along with more schools hospital etc, the government don't seem to have the sense they were born with
Prisons? Deportation surely
[quote][p][bold]susywest[/bold] wrote: A long time ago a policeman told me that if they were investagating a person and they turned out to be illegal immigrants, they had been told not to take any action as there were too many of these people and they could not cope with them. WHere is the law in this country? Why aren't we building more prisons? The more immigrants pooring in to this country the bigger the population and the more crimes there will be but no one seems to be addressing this problem, along with more schools hospital etc, the government don't seem to have the sense they were born with[/p][/quote]Prisons? Deportation surely DDDog1
  • Score: 1

1:07pm Thu 30 Jan 14

Jonnytrouble says...

The chief constable has also made it perfectly clear to everyone in the force that ethical and accurate crime recording is essential to provide the public with confidence in the service,” he said.
"I’m happy with the direction the force is now taking.”

I am just wondering if he new about this ' fiddeling ', before it has hit the press ????,,,,Humm !
I hope for his sake he will stand by his words, if not then the Commissioner I pay from MY Council Tax should give him the ' boot ' like the last one !
Also as quoted by
Nig
What did Mr Johnson know about this , he is a former senior officer of some 3o years , who finished with the police a few months before becoming commissioner, What did he know about this when he confronted the former chief constable...........
.....
Would be interesting to hear a comment from him !

Like the former GPC officer who has now come forward to the press with this info, because he has left the force after 30 Years, if he did ' whistle blow 'whilst serving he would have been out on his ear meaning NO nice pension and NO nice job, it's about looking after no 1 im afraid !
Maybe more EX police officers and serving one's will now come forward and do the same, but those serving I doubt will NOT 'tell tales ' due to bullying !
The chief constable has also made it perfectly clear to everyone in the force that ethical and accurate crime recording is essential to provide the public with confidence in the service,” he said. "I’m happy with the direction the force is now taking.” I am just wondering if he new about this ' fiddeling ', before it has hit the press ????,,,,Humm ! I hope for his sake he will stand by his words, if not then the Commissioner I pay from MY Council Tax should give him the ' boot ' like the last one ! Also as quoted by Nig What did Mr Johnson know about this , he is a former senior officer of some 3o years , who finished with the police a few months before becoming commissioner, What did he know about this when he confronted the former chief constable........... ..... Would be interesting to hear a comment from him ! Like the former GPC officer who has now come forward to the press with this info, because he has left the force after 30 Years, if he did ' whistle blow 'whilst serving he would have been out on his ear meaning NO nice pension and NO nice job, it's about looking after no 1 im afraid ! Maybe more EX police officers and serving one's will now come forward and do the same, but those serving I doubt will NOT 'tell tales ' due to bullying ! Jonnytrouble
  • Score: 12

1:12pm Thu 30 Jan 14

ollie72 says...

jerymp wrote:
What many people seem to forget is that the police officer stopping you for using a mobile while driving, trying to arrest some violent drunk, attending a road accident, attempting to sort out some argument between neighbours, looking for a missing child, confronting a hyped up murderous mob at some demonstration etc etc will not be one of the people who make these rules and decisions but an ordinary person like you doing an often difficult and unpleasant job and is probably just as fed up with the situation as you but in addition has to put up with it every day
This was being talked about on these message boards last year, during the time that Napier was removed - I know we all wondered at the time what the reason behind her removal was. I also remember a poster on here talking about manipulation of crime figures, and that he/she had raised a complaint.

The real problem here is that there will be no traceability back to the politicians, who will have been the force behind this manipulation. They trumpeted the fall in crime recently, and now we know why "crime has dropped" - they just stopped recording it!

If they want to work to targets, then improve the conversion rate, don't target the reduction in numbers of crime.
[quote][p][bold]jerymp[/bold] wrote: What many people seem to forget is that the police officer stopping you for using a mobile while driving, trying to arrest some violent drunk, attending a road accident, attempting to sort out some argument between neighbours, looking for a missing child, confronting a hyped up murderous mob at some demonstration etc etc will not be one of the people who make these rules and decisions but an ordinary person like you doing an often difficult and unpleasant job and is probably just as fed up with the situation as you but in addition has to put up with it every day[/p][/quote]This was being talked about on these message boards last year, during the time that Napier was removed - I know we all wondered at the time what the reason behind her removal was. I also remember a poster on here talking about manipulation of crime figures, and that he/she had raised a complaint. The real problem here is that there will be no traceability back to the politicians, who will have been the force behind this manipulation. They trumpeted the fall in crime recently, and now we know why "crime has dropped" - they just stopped recording it! If they want to work to targets, then improve the conversion rate, don't target the reduction in numbers of crime. ollie72
  • Score: 10

3:07pm Thu 30 Jan 14

TK355 says...

Jeff Farrar said: “This is the first I have seen of the allegations raised by MP Nick Smith and I take them extremely seriously.

“Mr Smith’s office will be contacted as soon as possible to establish the full details of these allegations, which will be investigated thoroughly.

“Whilst extremely concerning the allegations do appear to be historic and not reflective of my commitment to record crime in an ethical way.”

No of course Jeff Farrar didn't know anything about their fiddling the books. He wasn't at the daily management meetings where the number of crimes to be recorded was set. After all, as Deputy Ch at the time, what interest would the crime figures have been to him eh? I think it was more likely a case of the Insp taking it upon himself to put his own job on the line and go to the troops and tell them to Mickey the figures to make the bosses who everybody loves so much look much better than they actually were.
Of course, you could ask if he really didn't know, what on earth was he doing for his £300 a day job??
Sounds like typical slopey shoulder management speak to me. Far easier to blame the old regime .
Jeff Farrar said: “This is the first I have seen of the allegations raised by MP Nick Smith and I take them extremely seriously. “Mr Smith’s office will be contacted as soon as possible to establish the full details of these allegations, which will be investigated thoroughly. “Whilst extremely concerning the allegations do appear to be historic and not reflective of my commitment to record crime in an ethical way.” No of course Jeff Farrar didn't know anything about their fiddling the books. He wasn't at the daily management meetings where the number of crimes to be recorded was set. After all, as Deputy Ch at the time, what interest would the crime figures have been to him eh? I think it was more likely a case of the Insp taking it upon himself to put his own job on the line and go to the troops and tell them to Mickey the figures to make the bosses who everybody loves so much look much better than they actually were. Of course, you could ask if he really didn't know, what on earth was he doing for his £300 a day job?? Sounds like typical slopey shoulder management speak to me. Far easier to blame the old regime . TK355
  • Score: 14

4:01pm Thu 30 Jan 14

Valleymonkey says...

This is New Labour's legacy. Put people in at the head of departments that toe the line and they will be rewarded. Then cynically manipulate the statistics to show their policies are working. It's endemic within our society now - look at our shocking education system, our poor Ambulance Service, our Police Force that were once Thatcher's Army and are now Labour poodles unable to enforce justice as they are restrained by misplaced political correctness. The over burdeoned NHS, Our unemployment statistics - where is the new work created over the last 30 years? Thanks Tony - thanks Gordon - Thanks Lord and Lady Kinnock and Lord Mandleson and Lord Prescott - thanks boys - you let your core voters down - still, you all made a lot of money.
This is New Labour's legacy. Put people in at the head of departments that toe the line and they will be rewarded. Then cynically manipulate the statistics to show their policies are working. It's endemic within our society now - look at our shocking education system, our poor Ambulance Service, our Police Force that were once Thatcher's Army and are now Labour poodles unable to enforce justice as they are restrained by misplaced political correctness. The over burdeoned NHS, Our unemployment statistics - where is the new work created over the last 30 years? Thanks Tony - thanks Gordon - Thanks Lord and Lady Kinnock and Lord Mandleson and Lord Prescott - thanks boys - you let your core voters down - still, you all made a lot of money. Valleymonkey
  • Score: 9

4:36pm Thu 30 Jan 14

scraptheWAG says...

OH DEFINATELY - i reported a crime went to the station a week later for a progress up date and low and behold there was no record of a crime ever been reported!!!!
OH DEFINATELY - i reported a crime went to the station a week later for a progress up date and low and behold there was no record of a crime ever been reported!!!! scraptheWAG
  • Score: 3

5:06pm Thu 30 Jan 14

jimmytheone2 says...

welshmen wrote:
The Police are there to protect the Public, they are "Public Servants", in the years they have leaned towards their paymasters and acted accordingly, Like the BBC, the Police should conduct their work impartial to out side political pressure, but as we have seen with the BBC this is not the case, they continue to promote the Left and Immigration, the Police have been instructed by Senior ministers to ignore immigrants and radical Muslims and too harass any Public body that go against that political directive, we need courage to change or lose our Country, the gagging law by this Government has been voted for, 245 fore 245 against, a draw is a win for Government....
More mad ramblings and wild allegations from Newport's resident looney.

Nurse, get Welshmen back to his bed and give him his medicine. The old fool's having one of his turns....
[quote][p][bold]welshmen[/bold] wrote: The Police are there to protect the Public, they are "Public Servants", in the years they have leaned towards their paymasters and acted accordingly, Like the BBC, the Police should conduct their work impartial to out side political pressure, but as we have seen with the BBC this is not the case, they continue to promote the Left and Immigration, the Police have been instructed by Senior ministers to ignore immigrants and radical Muslims and too harass any Public body that go against that political directive, we need courage to change or lose our Country, the gagging law by this Government has been voted for, 245 fore 245 against, a draw is a win for Government....[/p][/quote]More mad ramblings and wild allegations from Newport's resident looney. Nurse, get Welshmen back to his bed and give him his medicine. The old fool's having one of his turns.... jimmytheone2
  • Score: 1

5:12pm Thu 30 Jan 14

jimmytheone2 says...

TK355 wrote:
Jeff Farrar said: “This is the first I have seen of the allegations raised by MP Nick Smith and I take them extremely seriously.

“Mr Smith’s office will be contacted as soon as possible to establish the full details of these allegations, which will be investigated thoroughly.

“Whilst extremely concerning the allegations do appear to be historic and not reflective of my commitment to record crime in an ethical way.”

No of course Jeff Farrar didn't know anything about their fiddling the books. He wasn't at the daily management meetings where the number of crimes to be recorded was set. After all, as Deputy Ch at the time, what interest would the crime figures have been to him eh? I think it was more likely a case of the Insp taking it upon himself to put his own job on the line and go to the troops and tell them to Mickey the figures to make the bosses who everybody loves so much look much better than they actually were.
Of course, you could ask if he really didn't know, what on earth was he doing for his £300 a day job??
Sounds like typical slopey shoulder management speak to me. Far easier to blame the old regime .
Or it might just be the shy, mystery ex-PC is talking through his backside.......

But that wouldn't occur to you narrow minded half-wits. You need to constantly be inventing conspiracy theories to give you something to whinge about - makes up for the lack of excitement in your sad, pathetic lives....
[quote][p][bold]TK355[/bold] wrote: Jeff Farrar said: “This is the first I have seen of the allegations raised by MP Nick Smith and I take them extremely seriously. “Mr Smith’s office will be contacted as soon as possible to establish the full details of these allegations, which will be investigated thoroughly. “Whilst extremely concerning the allegations do appear to be historic and not reflective of my commitment to record crime in an ethical way.” No of course Jeff Farrar didn't know anything about their fiddling the books. He wasn't at the daily management meetings where the number of crimes to be recorded was set. After all, as Deputy Ch at the time, what interest would the crime figures have been to him eh? I think it was more likely a case of the Insp taking it upon himself to put his own job on the line and go to the troops and tell them to Mickey the figures to make the bosses who everybody loves so much look much better than they actually were. Of course, you could ask if he really didn't know, what on earth was he doing for his £300 a day job?? Sounds like typical slopey shoulder management speak to me. Far easier to blame the old regime .[/p][/quote]Or it might just be the shy, mystery ex-PC is talking through his backside....... But that wouldn't occur to you narrow minded half-wits. You need to constantly be inventing conspiracy theories to give you something to whinge about - makes up for the lack of excitement in your sad, pathetic lives.... jimmytheone2
  • Score: -6

5:22pm Thu 30 Jan 14

Practicalmickey says...

welshmen wrote:
The Police are there to protect the Public, they are "Public Servants", in the years they have leaned towards their paymasters and acted accordingly, Like the BBC, the Police should conduct their work impartial to out side political pressure, but as we have seen with the BBC this is not the case, they continue to promote the Left and Immigration, the Police have been instructed by Senior ministers to ignore immigrants and radical Muslims and too harass any Public body that go against that political directive, we need courage to change or lose our Country, the gagging law by this Government has been voted for, 245 fore 245 against, a draw is a win for Government....
Absolutley the Police should be impartial and not under pressure from political bodies such as the 'elected' PCC.
'Public Servant' they protect the public but are by no means servants, they can only follow lawful orders, there's even a definition of what one of these is. So the government puppets can't interfere in the important part of their job, luckily.
[quote][p][bold]welshmen[/bold] wrote: The Police are there to protect the Public, they are "Public Servants", in the years they have leaned towards their paymasters and acted accordingly, Like the BBC, the Police should conduct their work impartial to out side political pressure, but as we have seen with the BBC this is not the case, they continue to promote the Left and Immigration, the Police have been instructed by Senior ministers to ignore immigrants and radical Muslims and too harass any Public body that go against that political directive, we need courage to change or lose our Country, the gagging law by this Government has been voted for, 245 fore 245 against, a draw is a win for Government....[/p][/quote]Absolutley the Police should be impartial and not under pressure from political bodies such as the 'elected' PCC. 'Public Servant' they protect the public but are by no means servants, they can only follow lawful orders, there's even a definition of what one of these is. So the government puppets can't interfere in the important part of their job, luckily. Practicalmickey
  • Score: 9

5:41pm Thu 30 Jan 14

TheWeslhEdwin says...

jimmytheone2 wrote:
TK355 wrote:
Jeff Farrar said: “This is the first I have seen of the allegations raised by MP Nick Smith and I take them extremely seriously.

“Mr Smith’s office will be contacted as soon as possible to establish the full details of these allegations, which will be investigated thoroughly.

“Whilst extremely concerning the allegations do appear to be historic and not reflective of my commitment to record crime in an ethical way.”

No of course Jeff Farrar didn't know anything about their fiddling the books. He wasn't at the daily management meetings where the number of crimes to be recorded was set. After all, as Deputy Ch at the time, what interest would the crime figures have been to him eh? I think it was more likely a case of the Insp taking it upon himself to put his own job on the line and go to the troops and tell them to Mickey the figures to make the bosses who everybody loves so much look much better than they actually were.
Of course, you could ask if he really didn't know, what on earth was he doing for his £300 a day job??
Sounds like typical slopey shoulder management speak to me. Far easier to blame the old regime .
Or it might just be the shy, mystery ex-PC is talking through his backside.......

But that wouldn't occur to you narrow minded half-wits. You need to constantly be inventing conspiracy theories to give you something to whinge about - makes up for the lack of excitement in your sad, pathetic lives....
To those on the inside this is not news. It is matter of fact and for certain senior officers to state they knew nothing about it is insulting in the extreme. They knew and forced the policy through to ensure it was done.
[quote][p][bold]jimmytheone2[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]TK355[/bold] wrote: Jeff Farrar said: “This is the first I have seen of the allegations raised by MP Nick Smith and I take them extremely seriously. “Mr Smith’s office will be contacted as soon as possible to establish the full details of these allegations, which will be investigated thoroughly. “Whilst extremely concerning the allegations do appear to be historic and not reflective of my commitment to record crime in an ethical way.” No of course Jeff Farrar didn't know anything about their fiddling the books. He wasn't at the daily management meetings where the number of crimes to be recorded was set. After all, as Deputy Ch at the time, what interest would the crime figures have been to him eh? I think it was more likely a case of the Insp taking it upon himself to put his own job on the line and go to the troops and tell them to Mickey the figures to make the bosses who everybody loves so much look much better than they actually were. Of course, you could ask if he really didn't know, what on earth was he doing for his £300 a day job?? Sounds like typical slopey shoulder management speak to me. Far easier to blame the old regime .[/p][/quote]Or it might just be the shy, mystery ex-PC is talking through his backside....... But that wouldn't occur to you narrow minded half-wits. You need to constantly be inventing conspiracy theories to give you something to whinge about - makes up for the lack of excitement in your sad, pathetic lives....[/p][/quote]To those on the inside this is not news. It is matter of fact and for certain senior officers to state they knew nothing about it is insulting in the extreme. They knew and forced the policy through to ensure it was done. TheWeslhEdwin
  • Score: 11

6:19pm Thu 30 Jan 14

Dave on his Soapbox says...

……….didn’t police officer’s realise that by colluding with senior management….and the subsequent reduction in crime figures…… the next step would be ‘efficency savings’ and police numbers would fall…..
……….didn’t police officer’s realise that by colluding with senior management….and the subsequent reduction in crime figures…… the next step would be ‘efficency savings’ and police numbers would fall….. Dave on his Soapbox
  • Score: 4

6:31pm Thu 30 Jan 14

regaturn says...

Only last year a very senior officer attended Central briefing and advised officers to throw small amounts of cannabis seized away, and not to record the crime, when asked to put it in writing he declined, also police support staff were paid rest day overtime rates to reclassify the closing categories of incidents from a crime to a non crime, thereby cutting the crime figures, as the current Chief was the deputy last year he would have been responsible for implementing the Chiefs policies, so as to suggest he had no idea is an absolute nonsense, perhaps this was the reason he declined to take a bonus in 2012
Only last year a very senior officer attended Central briefing and advised officers to throw small amounts of cannabis seized away, and not to record the crime, when asked to put it in writing he declined, also police support staff were paid rest day overtime rates to reclassify the closing categories of incidents from a crime to a non crime, thereby cutting the crime figures, as the current Chief was the deputy last year he would have been responsible for implementing the Chiefs policies, so as to suggest he had no idea is an absolute nonsense, perhaps this was the reason he declined to take a bonus in 2012 regaturn
  • Score: 9

6:54pm Thu 30 Jan 14

ollie72 says...

jimmytheone2 wrote:
TK355 wrote:
Jeff Farrar said: “This is the first I have seen of the allegations raised by MP Nick Smith and I take them extremely seriously.

“Mr Smith’s office will be contacted as soon as possible to establish the full details of these allegations, which will be investigated thoroughly.

“Whilst extremely concerning the allegations do appear to be historic and not reflective of my commitment to record crime in an ethical way.”

No of course Jeff Farrar didn't know anything about their fiddling the books. He wasn't at the daily management meetings where the number of crimes to be recorded was set. After all, as Deputy Ch at the time, what interest would the crime figures have been to him eh? I think it was more likely a case of the Insp taking it upon himself to put his own job on the line and go to the troops and tell them to Mickey the figures to make the bosses who everybody loves so much look much better than they actually were.
Of course, you could ask if he really didn't know, what on earth was he doing for his £300 a day job??
Sounds like typical slopey shoulder management speak to me. Far easier to blame the old regime .
Or it might just be the shy, mystery ex-PC is talking through his backside.......

But that wouldn't occur to you narrow minded half-wits. You need to constantly be inventing conspiracy theories to give you something to whinge about - makes up for the lack of excitement in your sad, pathetic lives....
I think I see your point (although you seem to be hell bent on abusing people while making that point!) - it is quite possible that this incident is based on a grudge.

However, I think most of us believe this allegation because we are being fed the news that crime is going down while seeing evidence all around us of crime rising.
[quote][p][bold]jimmytheone2[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]TK355[/bold] wrote: Jeff Farrar said: “This is the first I have seen of the allegations raised by MP Nick Smith and I take them extremely seriously. “Mr Smith’s office will be contacted as soon as possible to establish the full details of these allegations, which will be investigated thoroughly. “Whilst extremely concerning the allegations do appear to be historic and not reflective of my commitment to record crime in an ethical way.” No of course Jeff Farrar didn't know anything about their fiddling the books. He wasn't at the daily management meetings where the number of crimes to be recorded was set. After all, as Deputy Ch at the time, what interest would the crime figures have been to him eh? I think it was more likely a case of the Insp taking it upon himself to put his own job on the line and go to the troops and tell them to Mickey the figures to make the bosses who everybody loves so much look much better than they actually were. Of course, you could ask if he really didn't know, what on earth was he doing for his £300 a day job?? Sounds like typical slopey shoulder management speak to me. Far easier to blame the old regime .[/p][/quote]Or it might just be the shy, mystery ex-PC is talking through his backside....... But that wouldn't occur to you narrow minded half-wits. You need to constantly be inventing conspiracy theories to give you something to whinge about - makes up for the lack of excitement in your sad, pathetic lives....[/p][/quote]I think I see your point (although you seem to be hell bent on abusing people while making that point!) - it is quite possible that this incident is based on a grudge. However, I think most of us believe this allegation because we are being fed the news that crime is going down while seeing evidence all around us of crime rising. ollie72
  • Score: 3

7:44pm Thu 30 Jan 14

JENKO1965 says...

this dosent surprise me one bit, and its going to get even worse
this dosent surprise me one bit, and its going to get even worse JENKO1965
  • Score: 3

9:31pm Thu 30 Jan 14

Melvyn The Milk says...

This is nothing new................a
s all the protagonists well know. To try to blame this on the ex-chief as a new phenomenon is highly hypocritical of all involved.
This is nothing new................a s all the protagonists well know. To try to blame this on the ex-chief as a new phenomenon is highly hypocritical of all involved. Melvyn The Milk
  • Score: 1

3:49pm Tue 4 Feb 14

Cymru Am Beth says...

Abertillery29 wrote:
This is nothing new. In 1969 I was taken off patrol to be given 'words of advice' by a Detective Sergeant. I had put in a crime complaint for an attempted burglary and was told in no uncertain terms to reclassify it as criminal damage despite the fact that we were having a spate of house burglaries in the area.
The time for meaningless words from the Gwent Chief Constable and PCC has to end so that the people of Gwent will start reporting matters knowing that they will be correctly logged.
This was going on 40 years ago, so nothing has changed.
Attempt burglaries were always crimed as damage under £20.
Then if a perpetrator were caught and admitted the offence it would then be recorded as a detected crime.
This was on the orders of the DCI as he didn't want to have undetected crimes on the books at the end of the year as it reflected on the CID.
[quote][p][bold]Abertillery29[/bold] wrote: This is nothing new. In 1969 I was taken off patrol to be given 'words of advice' by a Detective Sergeant. I had put in a crime complaint for an attempted burglary and was told in no uncertain terms to reclassify it as criminal damage despite the fact that we were having a spate of house burglaries in the area. The time for meaningless words from the Gwent Chief Constable and PCC has to end so that the people of Gwent will start reporting matters knowing that they will be correctly logged.[/p][/quote]This was going on 40 years ago, so nothing has changed. Attempt burglaries were always crimed as damage under £20. Then if a perpetrator were caught and admitted the offence it would then be recorded as a detected crime. This was on the orders of the DCI as he didn't want to have undetected crimes on the books at the end of the year as it reflected on the CID. Cymru Am Beth
  • Score: 3

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