Income tax powers "not worth a referendum" - Torfaen MP

GOVERNMENT proposals to give the Welsh Assembly power to vary income tax rates are “not worth a referendum”, according to Torfaen MP Paul Murphy.

Mr Murphy, the former Secretary of State for Wales, also described the draft Wales Bill as, “seriously and deeply flawed”, while speaking in a meeting of the Welsh Grand Committee last week.

He said: “The people of Wales will think politicians have gone completely bonkers if they bring forward a referendum that costs millions, but ultimately did nothing to improve our schools, hospitals and other vital services.”

He told the committee that any extra revenue raised from income tax would not benefit Wales, as the treasury would correspondingly reduce Wales’ block

He also expressed concerns for turnout at a referendum, adding: “I think it is going to be very hard to convince people it is worth leaving their homes on a wet and windy Thursday evening to vote for something that has little noticeable impact on their everyday lives.”

He said he strongly welcomed extra borrowing powers for Wales, but £500 million for capital projects was not nearly enough.

“If Northern Ireland - with a population half our size - can borrow over £2 billion, then a figure of £500 million for Wales seems ludicrous,” said the Torfaen MP.

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9:25pm Thu 6 Feb 14

Monmouthshire Merlin says...

Please can we have a referendum on the abolition of the Welsh language Act
Followed by a referendum to abolish the Welsh Assembly government.
With all the money that would save, we won't have to borrow any money at all!
All the money saved can be spent on the NHS, Education, Social services and the needy in society.
Please can we have a referendum on the abolition of the Welsh language Act Followed by a referendum to abolish the Welsh Assembly government. With all the money that would save, we won't have to borrow any money at all! All the money saved can be spent on the NHS, Education, Social services and the needy in society. Monmouthshire Merlin

9:28pm Thu 6 Feb 14

varteg1 says...

As in the case of many charities, stick their noses into 500 millions and you can bet your last penny much of it will go to the 'operators' and not where it should be going.,

I wonder how many 'essential' new management positions will suddenly found necessary in order to 'manage' the half billion?

I think our Paul should concentrate on whittling down the massive bureaucracy we are now burdened with and well before any more massive sums enter the arena.
As in the case of many charities, stick their noses into 500 millions and you can bet your last penny much of it will go to the 'operators' and not where it should be going., I wonder how many 'essential' new management positions will suddenly found necessary in order to 'manage' the half billion? I think our Paul should concentrate on whittling down the massive bureaucracy we are now burdened with and well before any more massive sums enter the arena. varteg1

9:36pm Thu 6 Feb 14

Poolerkev says...

Monmouthshire Merlin wrote:
Please can we have a referendum on the abolition of the Welsh language Act
Followed by a referendum to abolish the Welsh Assembly government.
With all the money that would save, we won't have to borrow any money at all!
All the money saved can be spent on the NHS, Education, Social services and the needy in society.
Yeah because Tory London would really help us if we scrap the WG wouldn't they? Fool!!
[quote][p][bold]Monmouthshire Merlin[/bold] wrote: Please can we have a referendum on the abolition of the Welsh language Act Followed by a referendum to abolish the Welsh Assembly government. With all the money that would save, we won't have to borrow any money at all! All the money saved can be spent on the NHS, Education, Social services and the needy in society.[/p][/quote]Yeah because Tory London would really help us if we scrap the WG wouldn't they? Fool!! Poolerkev

9:59pm Thu 6 Feb 14

Monmouthshire Merlin says...

Poolerkev wrote:
Monmouthshire Merlin wrote:
Please can we have a referendum on the abolition of the Welsh language Act
Followed by a referendum to abolish the Welsh Assembly government.
With all the money that would save, we won't have to borrow any money at all!
All the money saved can be spent on the NHS, Education, Social services and the needy in society.
Yeah because Tory London would really help us if we scrap the WG wouldn't they? Fool!!
Perhaps you could explain how Wales has benefited from devolution ?
Perhaps you could start with education! followed by health service! followed by social services, followed by ambulance service.
I await your response with interest, and I would appreciate that you do so in an intelligent manner without profanity
thank you
[quote][p][bold]Poolerkev[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Monmouthshire Merlin[/bold] wrote: Please can we have a referendum on the abolition of the Welsh language Act Followed by a referendum to abolish the Welsh Assembly government. With all the money that would save, we won't have to borrow any money at all! All the money saved can be spent on the NHS, Education, Social services and the needy in society.[/p][/quote]Yeah because Tory London would really help us if we scrap the WG wouldn't they? Fool!![/p][/quote]Perhaps you could explain how Wales has benefited from devolution ? Perhaps you could start with education! followed by health service! followed by social services, followed by ambulance service. I await your response with interest, and I would appreciate that you do so in an intelligent manner without profanity thank you Monmouthshire Merlin

11:03pm Thu 6 Feb 14

Llanmartinangel says...

Poolerkev wrote:
Monmouthshire Merlin wrote:
Please can we have a referendum on the abolition of the Welsh language Act
Followed by a referendum to abolish the Welsh Assembly government.
With all the money that would save, we won't have to borrow any money at all!
All the money saved can be spent on the NHS, Education, Social services and the needy in society.
Yeah because Tory London would really help us if we scrap the WG wouldn't they? Fool!!
Are you suggesting Labour/Plaid Wales is a glittering success? I suggest you google the word 'success'.
[quote][p][bold]Poolerkev[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Monmouthshire Merlin[/bold] wrote: Please can we have a referendum on the abolition of the Welsh language Act Followed by a referendum to abolish the Welsh Assembly government. With all the money that would save, we won't have to borrow any money at all! All the money saved can be spent on the NHS, Education, Social services and the needy in society.[/p][/quote]Yeah because Tory London would really help us if we scrap the WG wouldn't they? Fool!![/p][/quote]Are you suggesting Labour/Plaid Wales is a glittering success? I suggest you google the word 'success'. Llanmartinangel

7:26am Fri 7 Feb 14

Monmouthshire Merlin says...

Llanmartinangel wrote:
Poolerkev wrote:
Monmouthshire Merlin wrote:
Please can we have a referendum on the abolition of the Welsh language Act
Followed by a referendum to abolish the Welsh Assembly government.
With all the money that would save, we won't have to borrow any money at all!
All the money saved can be spent on the NHS, Education, Social services and the needy in society.
Yeah because Tory London would really help us if we scrap the WG wouldn't they? Fool!!
Are you suggesting Labour/Plaid Wales is a glittering success? I suggest you google the word 'success'.
No, I am certainly not promoting Labour or Plaid, and I am at a loss to understand why you would think so?
I am promoting a Wales free of the burden of the Welsh language act.
A Wales free of the burden of an administration in Cardiff Bay that add little to the value of our lives here in Wales.
I would support the abolition of WAG a reduction in the number of local authorities as recommended in the Williams commission report.
The money saved allocated to those authorities providing better value and service to the people of Wales
[quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Poolerkev[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Monmouthshire Merlin[/bold] wrote: Please can we have a referendum on the abolition of the Welsh language Act Followed by a referendum to abolish the Welsh Assembly government. With all the money that would save, we won't have to borrow any money at all! All the money saved can be spent on the NHS, Education, Social services and the needy in society.[/p][/quote]Yeah because Tory London would really help us if we scrap the WG wouldn't they? Fool!![/p][/quote]Are you suggesting Labour/Plaid Wales is a glittering success? I suggest you google the word 'success'.[/p][/quote]No, I am certainly not promoting Labour or Plaid, and I am at a loss to understand why you would think so? I am promoting a Wales free of the burden of the Welsh language act. A Wales free of the burden of an administration in Cardiff Bay that add little to the value of our lives here in Wales. I would support the abolition of WAG a reduction in the number of local authorities as recommended in the Williams commission report. The money saved allocated to those authorities providing better value and service to the people of Wales Monmouthshire Merlin

7:45am Fri 7 Feb 14

Llanmartinangel says...

Monmouthshire Merlin wrote:
Llanmartinangel wrote:
Poolerkev wrote:
Monmouthshire Merlin wrote:
Please can we have a referendum on the abolition of the Welsh language Act
Followed by a referendum to abolish the Welsh Assembly government.
With all the money that would save, we won't have to borrow any money at all!
All the money saved can be spent on the NHS, Education, Social services and the needy in society.
Yeah because Tory London would really help us if we scrap the WG wouldn't they? Fool!!
Are you suggesting Labour/Plaid Wales is a glittering success? I suggest you google the word 'success'.
No, I am certainly not promoting Labour or Plaid, and I am at a loss to understand why you would think so?
I am promoting a Wales free of the burden of the Welsh language act.
A Wales free of the burden of an administration in Cardiff Bay that add little to the value of our lives here in Wales.
I would support the abolition of WAG a reduction in the number of local authorities as recommended in the Williams commission report.
The money saved allocated to those authorities providing better value and service to the people of Wales
Was replying to the other guy Merlin, not you. You and I are in complete agreement.
[quote][p][bold]Monmouthshire Merlin[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Poolerkev[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Monmouthshire Merlin[/bold] wrote: Please can we have a referendum on the abolition of the Welsh language Act Followed by a referendum to abolish the Welsh Assembly government. With all the money that would save, we won't have to borrow any money at all! All the money saved can be spent on the NHS, Education, Social services and the needy in society.[/p][/quote]Yeah because Tory London would really help us if we scrap the WG wouldn't they? Fool!![/p][/quote]Are you suggesting Labour/Plaid Wales is a glittering success? I suggest you google the word 'success'.[/p][/quote]No, I am certainly not promoting Labour or Plaid, and I am at a loss to understand why you would think so? I am promoting a Wales free of the burden of the Welsh language act. A Wales free of the burden of an administration in Cardiff Bay that add little to the value of our lives here in Wales. I would support the abolition of WAG a reduction in the number of local authorities as recommended in the Williams commission report. The money saved allocated to those authorities providing better value and service to the people of Wales[/p][/quote]Was replying to the other guy Merlin, not you. You and I are in complete agreement. Llanmartinangel

9:15am Fri 7 Feb 14

Bobevans says...

What did he expect. Of course if Wales had tax raising powers the block grant would be reduced.
What did he expect. Of course if Wales had tax raising powers the block grant would be reduced. Bobevans

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