THE NEWSDESK: Our children deserve protection from depictions of sexual violence

South Wales Argus: Morian Morgan headteacher Coed-y-Brain primary school Llanbradach (3916785) Morian Morgan headteacher Coed-y-Brain primary school Llanbradach (3916785)

IT'S a pretty shocking state of affairs when children as young as six are having sexually explicit conversations, acting out sexual violence and talking about drug use because of coming into contact with a video game.

Especially when that game has depictions of prostitutes being picked up by players, who get extra life points for having sex with them, and who then have the option of paying for their sexual services or killing them. No extra life points for that, but players can get their money back.

But this is the reality according to Llanbradach headteacher Morian Morgan, who has written to parents warning them about the implications of their youngsters coming into contact with Grand Theft Auto.

Pupils at Coed-y-Brain Primary School have been, according to Mr Morgan, “initiating games that involve simulating rape and sexual intercourse” and “having detailed discussion of drug use”.

He told our sister paper the Caerphilly Campaign that staff at the school discovered that the worrying behaviour was a result of children coming into contact with GTA, which follows the dark underworld of America’s biggest cities.

Its latest instalment, Grand Theft Auto V, is thought to be one of the best-selling video games of all time, having sold more than 32 million copies worldwide.

It is certified for people over 18.

The letter to parents also said children were “acting out scenes from the game which include the strongest of sexual swear words”, “having conversations” about sexual acts and “play acting extremely violent games that sometimes result in actual injury”.

Mr Morgan is careful not to criticise parents - and I understand why.

How many parents are avid gamers? How many would know the full content of games like these? And how many parents know every single thing their children come into contact with?

Mr Morgan said: “Until I went online and checked the content of this game, I thought it was just a bit of swearing and some shooting and I think some of the

parents will tell you that they have been equally naive."

He stressed this applied to a minority of pupils. But even a small minority introducing subjects such as these into a primary school playground is toxic.

Innocence, once corrupted, can never be regained.

This week's story in Llanbradach comes closely after the ATL teaching union said nearly 40 per cent of its members believe the young people they teach have been pressured into viewing online pornography by their peers.

And 38 per cent of respondents said they were aware of pupils sending or receiving sexually explicit texts, images or videos on their mobile phone, a practice known as "sexting".

The union surveyed more than 400 of its members last November and December.

Its findings suggest that while some education staff feel it should be the responsibility of parents to teach children about the dangers of pornography, 71 per cent believe that it should be taught in secondary schools, and almost 20 per cent believe that it should be taught in primary schools.

Yes, that's also pretty shocking. Primary schools.

Almost 60 per cent of those who cover the topic in teaching told the survey that they had not received any specific training and of those who had, fewer than half (41 per cent) felt it was adequate.

But the teachers surveyed were well aware of the pitfalls.

More than half of the respondents to the survey said they would be prepared to teach pupils about issues relating to pornography if they received specific training, with almost 70 per cent stating they would like the subject covered in continuous professional development sessions.

Six out of 10 respondents said they would have concerns delivering lessons around sexually explicit content.

Of those, 60 per cent said they would have concerns with pupils not taking the subject seriously and 51 per cent said they felt it may put their reputation at risk.

Many people have felt uneasy about the mainstreaming of pornography in our society over the past 20 years, not least because of its depiction of women.

And the ATL survey, for me, is more evidence that this is not a case of prudes versus free-thinkers.

This isn't the 1960s, and this isn't about sexual revolution for grown-ups.

This is a rapacious industry spreading its tentacles to get money out of us all by appealing to our basest instincts, reducing relationships to something so very joyless.

And it is clearly now reaching out to the next generation of consumers using peer pressure as a powerful tool.

Karl Marx thought religion the opiate of the masses.

Now, it's porn.

Comments (38)

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11:55am Sun 16 Feb 14

inkyskin says...

how many times must it be repeated! there is NO rape scene in GTA! it's stupid blaming video games/rock music etc on the way children act!
how many times must it be repeated! there is NO rape scene in GTA! it's stupid blaming video games/rock music etc on the way children act! inkyskin
  • Score: 4

12:16pm Sun 16 Feb 14

Templar05 says...

I have actually heard children that age speak vulgarity and swear in front of there single parent . I'm not one for video games , I have better things to do but lets put blame where blame is due .
I have actually heard children that age speak vulgarity and swear in front of there single parent . I'm not one for video games , I have better things to do but lets put blame where blame is due . Templar05
  • Score: -10

1:42pm Sun 16 Feb 14

inkyskin says...

it's how kids are brought up, my kids are 10 and 14, they have never swore, always use good manners and yes, they play video games like most kids their ages, blame parents NOT objects!
it's how kids are brought up, my kids are 10 and 14, they have never swore, always use good manners and yes, they play video games like most kids their ages, blame parents NOT objects! inkyskin
  • Score: 11

1:43pm Sun 16 Feb 14

gathin says...

This should never be an issue and children should be allowed to stay children as long as possible.
These so-called games, films that are made 12A when they should be 18's and the ever-decreasing standards of modern society (for the corporations to make more and more revenue) should never have been allowed to happen in the 1st place.
Anybody here remember when Terminator was an 18 cert?
Now it's 12A- all they've done is take away the swearing but the violence still remains the same.
The BBFC is now trying to get more swearing in 12A films.
We're all p*ssing in the wind as the power always wins and the SWA knows that after all Pooport councils triumphs which sort-of completely negates this whole story.
This should never be an issue and children should be allowed to stay children as long as possible. These so-called games, films that are made 12A when they should be 18's and the ever-decreasing standards of modern society (for the corporations to make more and more revenue) should never have been allowed to happen in the 1st place. Anybody here remember when Terminator was an 18 cert? Now it's 12A- all they've done is take away the swearing but the violence still remains the same. The BBFC is now trying to get more swearing in 12A films. We're all p*ssing in the wind as the power always wins and the SWA knows that after all Pooport councils triumphs which sort-of completely negates this whole story. gathin
  • Score: -10

1:44pm Sun 16 Feb 14

hamiltonman85 says...

Yawn, how lazy do you have to be to blame video games. There ARE protections against exposure. They are called Age restrictions, and good parents. Parent buy these games, and parents give these games to kids. So guess who is to blame! Stop pointing the finger in the completely wrong direction! Journalism looking for easy sells. Greed over common sense every time. Bravo!
Yawn, how lazy do you have to be to blame video games. There ARE protections against exposure. They are called Age restrictions, and good parents. Parent buy these games, and parents give these games to kids. So guess who is to blame! Stop pointing the finger in the completely wrong direction! Journalism looking for easy sells. Greed over common sense every time. Bravo! hamiltonman85
  • Score: 13

4:50pm Sun 16 Feb 14

GardenVarietyMushroom says...

Frankly, in a country where our government are paying sex clubs to employ teenage girls to work for their benefits - I think there are higher priorities than video games....
Frankly, in a country where our government are paying sex clubs to employ teenage girls to work for their benefits - I think there are higher priorities than video games.... GardenVarietyMushroom
  • Score: 9

5:32pm Sun 16 Feb 14

UpsetResident says...

This is bad parenting, simple as that. the GTA games, and all games along with films are rated, games that are too mature are rated and enforced by law, just like movies, GTA is one of them.

When a parent goes into a shop and buys GTA or any other 12, 12a, 15 or 18 certificated material for their preteen child, they should be punished for breaking the law.

Grow up and blame the real culprits
This is bad parenting, simple as that. the GTA games, and all games along with films are rated, games that are too mature are rated and enforced by law, just like movies, GTA is one of them. When a parent goes into a shop and buys GTA or any other 12, 12a, 15 or 18 certificated material for their preteen child, they should be punished for breaking the law. Grow up and blame the real culprits UpsetResident
  • Score: 11

5:54pm Sun 16 Feb 14

Woodgnome says...

UpsetResident wrote:
This is bad parenting, simple as that. the GTA games, and all games along with films are rated, games that are too mature are rated and enforced by law, just like movies, GTA is one of them.

When a parent goes into a shop and buys GTA or any other 12, 12a, 15 or 18 certificated material for their preteen child, they should be punished for breaking the law.

Grow up and blame the real culprits
Quite right. These are primary school kids with parents who don't know or don't care. Their pals with responsible parents also see the vids.
[quote][p][bold]UpsetResident[/bold] wrote: This is bad parenting, simple as that. the GTA games, and all games along with films are rated, games that are too mature are rated and enforced by law, just like movies, GTA is one of them. When a parent goes into a shop and buys GTA or any other 12, 12a, 15 or 18 certificated material for their preteen child, they should be punished for breaking the law. Grow up and blame the real culprits[/p][/quote]Quite right. These are primary school kids with parents who don't know or don't care. Their pals with responsible parents also see the vids. Woodgnome
  • Score: -7

7:40pm Sun 16 Feb 14

welshmen says...

GardenVarietyMushroo
m
wrote:
Frankly, in a country where our government are paying sex clubs to employ teenage girls to work for their benefits - I think there are higher priorities than video games....
Yes your right, in London detectives are investigating 500 new allegations of Muslim Sex Grooming cases in the last six months.

Evidence: www.scoop.it/t/the-p
ulp-ark-gazette

"click page one, have a look....this news is on this gazette because popular rags wont print this....
[quote][p][bold]GardenVarietyMushroo m[/bold] wrote: Frankly, in a country where our government are paying sex clubs to employ teenage girls to work for their benefits - I think there are higher priorities than video games....[/p][/quote]Yes your right, in London detectives are investigating 500 new allegations of Muslim Sex Grooming cases in the last six months. Evidence: www.scoop.it/t/the-p ulp-ark-gazette "click page one, have a look....this news is on this gazette because popular rags wont print this.... welshmen
  • Score: -14

8:00pm Sun 16 Feb 14

GardenVarietyMushroom says...

welshmen wrote:
GardenVarietyMushroo

m
wrote:
Frankly, in a country where our government are paying sex clubs to employ teenage girls to work for their benefits - I think there are higher priorities than video games....
Yes your right, in London detectives are investigating 500 new allegations of Muslim Sex Grooming cases in the last six months.

Evidence: www.scoop.it/t/the-p

ulp-ark-gazette

"click page one, have a look....this news is on this gazette because popular rags wont print this....
What the hell have Muslims got to do with the DWP paying sex clubs to hire young girls to work for their social security benefits? I really wish you'd stop tagging racist crap onto everything I say.

If what you say is true, then it's shocking. In all fairness however, muslims aren't the only group that have been accused of such vile behaviour - government ministers, high ranking police, members of the church, respected entertainers etc... have all been marred with incidents like this, and if it's the act, as opposed to the ethnicity of the perpetrators you're concerned about, then you really ought to make that more clear, no?
[quote][p][bold]welshmen[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]GardenVarietyMushroo m[/bold] wrote: Frankly, in a country where our government are paying sex clubs to employ teenage girls to work for their benefits - I think there are higher priorities than video games....[/p][/quote]Yes your right, in London detectives are investigating 500 new allegations of Muslim Sex Grooming cases in the last six months. Evidence: www.scoop.it/t/the-p ulp-ark-gazette "click page one, have a look....this news is on this gazette because popular rags wont print this....[/p][/quote]What the hell have Muslims got to do with the DWP paying sex clubs to hire young girls to work for their social security benefits? I really wish you'd stop tagging racist crap onto everything I say. If what you say is true, then it's shocking. In all fairness however, muslims aren't the only group that have been accused of such vile behaviour - government ministers, high ranking police, members of the church, respected entertainers etc... have all been marred with incidents like this, and if it's the act, as opposed to the ethnicity of the perpetrators you're concerned about, then you really ought to make that more clear, no? GardenVarietyMushroom
  • Score: 12

8:00pm Sun 16 Feb 14

broadjustice says...

Go home argus, you are drunk!
THERE ARE NO DEPICTIONS OF RAPE OR SEXUAL ASSAULT ON GTA.
Go home argus, you are drunk! THERE ARE NO DEPICTIONS OF RAPE OR SEXUAL ASSAULT ON GTA. broadjustice
  • Score: 0

8:47pm Sun 16 Feb 14

Tosh Lines says...

GardenVarietyMushroo
m
wrote:
welshmen wrote:
GardenVarietyMushroo


m
wrote:
Frankly, in a country where our government are paying sex clubs to employ teenage girls to work for their benefits - I think there are higher priorities than video games....
Yes your right, in London detectives are investigating 500 new allegations of Muslim Sex Grooming cases in the last six months.

Evidence: www.scoop.it/t/the-p


ulp-ark-gazette

"click page one, have a look....this news is on this gazette because popular rags wont print this....
What the hell have Muslims got to do with the DWP paying sex clubs to hire young girls to work for their social security benefits? I really wish you'd stop tagging racist crap onto everything I say.

If what you say is true, then it's shocking. In all fairness however, muslims aren't the only group that have been accused of such vile behaviour - government ministers, high ranking police, members of the church, respected entertainers etc... have all been marred with incidents like this, and if it's the act, as opposed to the ethnicity of the perpetrators you're concerned about, then you really ought to make that more clear, no?
Now hang on. If Welshmen ( I assume it's all of them, otherwise that would be a hideously arrogant pseudonym) decide to turn this into a BNP vote-winner, who are you to stop them? You may have thought this was a debate about the exploitation of kids, of whatever hue or religion. Because we're all human beings, right? Wrong. It seems that it's an issue about race. Yet again. Perhaps 'Welshmen' would do well to remember that most of 'our' grandfathers, who were also Welshmen, fought against the idiocy of the Far Right...
[quote][p][bold]GardenVarietyMushroo m[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]welshmen[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]GardenVarietyMushroo m[/bold] wrote: Frankly, in a country where our government are paying sex clubs to employ teenage girls to work for their benefits - I think there are higher priorities than video games....[/p][/quote]Yes your right, in London detectives are investigating 500 new allegations of Muslim Sex Grooming cases in the last six months. Evidence: www.scoop.it/t/the-p ulp-ark-gazette "click page one, have a look....this news is on this gazette because popular rags wont print this....[/p][/quote]What the hell have Muslims got to do with the DWP paying sex clubs to hire young girls to work for their social security benefits? I really wish you'd stop tagging racist crap onto everything I say. If what you say is true, then it's shocking. In all fairness however, muslims aren't the only group that have been accused of such vile behaviour - government ministers, high ranking police, members of the church, respected entertainers etc... have all been marred with incidents like this, and if it's the act, as opposed to the ethnicity of the perpetrators you're concerned about, then you really ought to make that more clear, no?[/p][/quote]Now hang on. If Welshmen ( I assume it's all of them, otherwise that would be a hideously arrogant pseudonym) decide to turn this into a BNP vote-winner, who are you to stop them? You may have thought this was a debate about the exploitation of kids, of whatever hue or religion. Because we're all human beings, right? Wrong. It seems that it's an issue about race. Yet again. Perhaps 'Welshmen' would do well to remember that most of 'our' grandfathers, who were also Welshmen, fought against the idiocy of the Far Right... Tosh Lines
  • Score: 6

10:32pm Sun 16 Feb 14

Woodgnome says...

Independent critical review:-
"If you’re okay with buying a game for your child that includes murder, bank robbery, arson, drug use, gratuitous use of the f-and-n-words, strip clubs, and other forms of illegal activity–then I suppose no one can stop you from buying it for your kid. I would just strongly caution you to assess your child’s comprehension and mental capacity before giving them free reign over the city of Los Santos."
"The players kill prostitutes"
Footnote to article "This article was amended on 27 December 2013 to clarify that killing prostitutes does not give a player additional points in the game, but having sex with them does".
Independent critical review:- "If you’re okay with buying a game for your child that includes murder, bank robbery, arson, drug use, gratuitous use of the f-and-n-words, strip clubs, and other forms of illegal activity–then I suppose no one can stop you from buying it for your kid. I would just strongly caution you to assess your child’s comprehension and mental capacity before giving them free reign over the city of Los Santos." "The players kill prostitutes" Footnote to article "This article was amended on 27 December 2013 to clarify that killing prostitutes does not give a player additional points in the game, but having sex with them does". Woodgnome
  • Score: -9

11:14pm Sun 16 Feb 14

GardenVarietyMushroom says...

Woodgnome wrote:
Independent critical review:-
"If you’re okay with buying a game for your child that includes murder, bank robbery, arson, drug use, gratuitous use of the f-and-n-words, strip clubs, and other forms of illegal activity–then I suppose no one can stop you from buying it for your kid. I would just strongly caution you to assess your child’s comprehension and mental capacity before giving them free reign over the city of Los Santos."
"The players kill prostitutes"
Footnote to article "This article was amended on 27 December 2013 to clarify that killing prostitutes does not give a player additional points in the game, but having sex with them does".
Whoop de doo. It's just the latest in a long line of stuff certain types of people get irate about. Video games, films, comics, violent cartoons, music, even books, plays and poetry.

You just can't stop these prudes whining about something or other.
[quote][p][bold]Woodgnome[/bold] wrote: Independent critical review:- "If you’re okay with buying a game for your child that includes murder, bank robbery, arson, drug use, gratuitous use of the f-and-n-words, strip clubs, and other forms of illegal activity–then I suppose no one can stop you from buying it for your kid. I would just strongly caution you to assess your child’s comprehension and mental capacity before giving them free reign over the city of Los Santos." "The players kill prostitutes" Footnote to article "This article was amended on 27 December 2013 to clarify that killing prostitutes does not give a player additional points in the game, but having sex with them does".[/p][/quote]Whoop de doo. It's just the latest in a long line of stuff certain types of people get irate about. Video games, films, comics, violent cartoons, music, even books, plays and poetry. You just can't stop these prudes whining about something or other. GardenVarietyMushroom
  • Score: 12

8:23am Mon 17 Feb 14

Katie Re-Registered says...

I think that where misogyny and the reinforcement of needlessly limiting and destructive sexist gender roles are concerned, other media such as tabloid newspapers, television ads and the music/entertainments industry are also to blame. Somewhat intriguingly, not one mainstream political leader has ever spoken out about Page 3 of The Sun and does anyone remember the newspaper that featured a countdown to Charlotte Church becoming 'legal'? Sometimes, it makes you wonder what our political establishment are so afraid of when it comes to standing up and criticising certain elements of the British Press. With their intricate snooping skills that they have been afforded carte blanche to develop over decades (would have been the envy of the DDR's Stasi, I'm sure!) are elements of the media really party to information that the political establishment have reason to fear them spilling the beans about?
I think that where misogyny and the reinforcement of needlessly limiting and destructive sexist gender roles are concerned, other media such as tabloid newspapers, television ads and the music/entertainments industry are also to blame. Somewhat intriguingly, not one mainstream political leader has ever spoken out about Page 3 of The Sun and does anyone remember the newspaper that featured a countdown to Charlotte Church becoming 'legal'? Sometimes, it makes you wonder what our political establishment are so afraid of when it comes to standing up and criticising certain elements of the British Press. With their intricate snooping skills that they have been afforded carte blanche to develop over decades (would have been the envy of the DDR's Stasi, I'm sure!) are elements of the media really party to information that the political establishment have reason to fear them spilling the beans about? Katie Re-Registered
  • Score: 3

9:15am Mon 17 Feb 14

Woodgnome says...

GardenVarietyMushroo
m
wrote:
Woodgnome wrote:
Independent critical review:-
"If you’re okay with buying a game for your child that includes murder, bank robbery, arson, drug use, gratuitous use of the f-and-n-words, strip clubs, and other forms of illegal activity–then I suppose no one can stop you from buying it for your kid. I would just strongly caution you to assess your child’s comprehension and mental capacity before giving them free reign over the city of Los Santos."
"The players kill prostitutes"
Footnote to article "This article was amended on 27 December 2013 to clarify that killing prostitutes does not give a player additional points in the game, but having sex with them does".
Whoop de doo. It's just the latest in a long line of stuff certain types of people get irate about. Video games, films, comics, violent cartoons, music, even books, plays and poetry.

You just can't stop these prudes whining about something or other.
What an idiot. Fine for adults if you like that sort of thing - not for primary kids. Have you got the vote? Very worrying.
[quote][p][bold]GardenVarietyMushroo m[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Woodgnome[/bold] wrote: Independent critical review:- "If you’re okay with buying a game for your child that includes murder, bank robbery, arson, drug use, gratuitous use of the f-and-n-words, strip clubs, and other forms of illegal activity–then I suppose no one can stop you from buying it for your kid. I would just strongly caution you to assess your child’s comprehension and mental capacity before giving them free reign over the city of Los Santos." "The players kill prostitutes" Footnote to article "This article was amended on 27 December 2013 to clarify that killing prostitutes does not give a player additional points in the game, but having sex with them does".[/p][/quote]Whoop de doo. It's just the latest in a long line of stuff certain types of people get irate about. Video games, films, comics, violent cartoons, music, even books, plays and poetry. You just can't stop these prudes whining about something or other.[/p][/quote]What an idiot. Fine for adults if you like that sort of thing - not for primary kids. Have you got the vote? Very worrying. Woodgnome
  • Score: -9

11:20am Mon 17 Feb 14

GardenVarietyMushroom says...

Woodgnome wrote:
GardenVarietyMushroo

m
wrote:
Woodgnome wrote:
Independent critical review:-
"If you’re okay with buying a game for your child that includes murder, bank robbery, arson, drug use, gratuitous use of the f-and-n-words, strip clubs, and other forms of illegal activity–then I suppose no one can stop you from buying it for your kid. I would just strongly caution you to assess your child’s comprehension and mental capacity before giving them free reign over the city of Los Santos."
"The players kill prostitutes"
Footnote to article "This article was amended on 27 December 2013 to clarify that killing prostitutes does not give a player additional points in the game, but having sex with them does".
Whoop de doo. It's just the latest in a long line of stuff certain types of people get irate about. Video games, films, comics, violent cartoons, music, even books, plays and poetry.

You just can't stop these prudes whining about something or other.
What an idiot. Fine for adults if you like that sort of thing - not for primary kids. Have you got the vote? Very worrying.
Listen mate, within the confines of the law, I'll be the arbiter of what is, or isn't appropriate for my children to see and do, what they learn and how - not you.

I disagree with religious prosyletising for example, but would never dream of telling a devout parent that it isn't their right, as a parent, to teach their children about religion, no matter how much I disagree with it.

This type of misguided moral crusades are illustrations of the very worst kind of presumption in my opinion, and should be treated with the contempt they deserve.
[quote][p][bold]Woodgnome[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]GardenVarietyMushroo m[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Woodgnome[/bold] wrote: Independent critical review:- "If you’re okay with buying a game for your child that includes murder, bank robbery, arson, drug use, gratuitous use of the f-and-n-words, strip clubs, and other forms of illegal activity–then I suppose no one can stop you from buying it for your kid. I would just strongly caution you to assess your child’s comprehension and mental capacity before giving them free reign over the city of Los Santos." "The players kill prostitutes" Footnote to article "This article was amended on 27 December 2013 to clarify that killing prostitutes does not give a player additional points in the game, but having sex with them does".[/p][/quote]Whoop de doo. It's just the latest in a long line of stuff certain types of people get irate about. Video games, films, comics, violent cartoons, music, even books, plays and poetry. You just can't stop these prudes whining about something or other.[/p][/quote]What an idiot. Fine for adults if you like that sort of thing - not for primary kids. Have you got the vote? Very worrying.[/p][/quote]Listen mate, within the confines of the law, I'll be the arbiter of what is, or isn't appropriate for my children to see and do, what they learn and how - not you. I disagree with religious prosyletising for example, but would never dream of telling a devout parent that it isn't their right, as a parent, to teach their children about religion, no matter how much I disagree with it. This type of misguided moral crusades are illustrations of the very worst kind of presumption in my opinion, and should be treated with the contempt they deserve. GardenVarietyMushroom
  • Score: 9

12:46pm Mon 17 Feb 14

Woodgnome says...

GardenVarietyMushroo
m
wrote:
Woodgnome wrote:
GardenVarietyMushroo


m
wrote:
Woodgnome wrote:
Independent critical review:-
"If you’re okay with buying a game for your child that includes murder, bank robbery, arson, drug use, gratuitous use of the f-and-n-words, strip clubs, and other forms of illegal activity–then I suppose no one can stop you from buying it for your kid. I would just strongly caution you to assess your child’s comprehension and mental capacity before giving them free reign over the city of Los Santos."
"The players kill prostitutes"
Footnote to article "This article was amended on 27 December 2013 to clarify that killing prostitutes does not give a player additional points in the game, but having sex with them does".
Whoop de doo. It's just the latest in a long line of stuff certain types of people get irate about. Video games, films, comics, violent cartoons, music, even books, plays and poetry.

You just can't stop these prudes whining about something or other.
What an idiot. Fine for adults if you like that sort of thing - not for primary kids. Have you got the vote? Very worrying.
Listen mate, within the confines of the law, I'll be the arbiter of what is, or isn't appropriate for my children to see and do, what they learn and how - not you.

I disagree with religious prosyletising for example, but would never dream of telling a devout parent that it isn't their right, as a parent, to teach their children about religion, no matter how much I disagree with it.

This type of misguided moral crusades are illustrations of the very worst kind of presumption in my opinion, and should be treated with the contempt they deserve.
I'm not your mate and you clearly have no sense of child protection values. We are talking about kids not adults - the latter can watch what they like. Do you advocate arming child soldiers as well?? Idiot.

It's not a moral crusade - it's protecting children from adult themes.
[quote][p][bold]GardenVarietyMushroo m[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Woodgnome[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]GardenVarietyMushroo m[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Woodgnome[/bold] wrote: Independent critical review:- "If you’re okay with buying a game for your child that includes murder, bank robbery, arson, drug use, gratuitous use of the f-and-n-words, strip clubs, and other forms of illegal activity–then I suppose no one can stop you from buying it for your kid. I would just strongly caution you to assess your child’s comprehension and mental capacity before giving them free reign over the city of Los Santos." "The players kill prostitutes" Footnote to article "This article was amended on 27 December 2013 to clarify that killing prostitutes does not give a player additional points in the game, but having sex with them does".[/p][/quote]Whoop de doo. It's just the latest in a long line of stuff certain types of people get irate about. Video games, films, comics, violent cartoons, music, even books, plays and poetry. You just can't stop these prudes whining about something or other.[/p][/quote]What an idiot. Fine for adults if you like that sort of thing - not for primary kids. Have you got the vote? Very worrying.[/p][/quote]Listen mate, within the confines of the law, I'll be the arbiter of what is, or isn't appropriate for my children to see and do, what they learn and how - not you. I disagree with religious prosyletising for example, but would never dream of telling a devout parent that it isn't their right, as a parent, to teach their children about religion, no matter how much I disagree with it. This type of misguided moral crusades are illustrations of the very worst kind of presumption in my opinion, and should be treated with the contempt they deserve.[/p][/quote]I'm not your mate and you clearly have no sense of child protection values. We are talking about kids not adults - the latter can watch what they like. Do you advocate arming child soldiers as well?? Idiot. It's not a moral crusade - it's protecting children from adult themes. Woodgnome
  • Score: -10

1:53pm Mon 17 Feb 14

GardenVarietyMushroom says...

Woodgnome wrote:
GardenVarietyMushroo

m
wrote:
Woodgnome wrote:
GardenVarietyMushroo



m
wrote:
Woodgnome wrote:
Independent critical review:-
"If you’re okay with buying a game for your child that includes murder, bank robbery, arson, drug use, gratuitous use of the f-and-n-words, strip clubs, and other forms of illegal activity–then I suppose no one can stop you from buying it for your kid. I would just strongly caution you to assess your child’s comprehension and mental capacity before giving them free reign over the city of Los Santos."
"The players kill prostitutes"
Footnote to article "This article was amended on 27 December 2013 to clarify that killing prostitutes does not give a player additional points in the game, but having sex with them does".
Whoop de doo. It's just the latest in a long line of stuff certain types of people get irate about. Video games, films, comics, violent cartoons, music, even books, plays and poetry.

You just can't stop these prudes whining about something or other.
What an idiot. Fine for adults if you like that sort of thing - not for primary kids. Have you got the vote? Very worrying.
Listen mate, within the confines of the law, I'll be the arbiter of what is, or isn't appropriate for my children to see and do, what they learn and how - not you.

I disagree with religious prosyletising for example, but would never dream of telling a devout parent that it isn't their right, as a parent, to teach their children about religion, no matter how much I disagree with it.

This type of misguided moral crusades are illustrations of the very worst kind of presumption in my opinion, and should be treated with the contempt they deserve.
I'm not your mate and you clearly have no sense of child protection values. We are talking about kids not adults - the latter can watch what they like. Do you advocate arming child soldiers as well?? Idiot.

It's not a moral crusade - it's protecting children from adult themes.
Okay, first off 'mate' is just a form of address. Personally, I'd be more than happy to go along with what I'd prefer to call you but then I'm sure you'd complain about it and the Argus would delete the comment.

So - mate - let's stick to the discussion about video games. It's perfectly clear that such things are amoral, that is neither good nor bad. They can however send messages to our children that we might find morally questionable. Some parents, like myself, realise that hiding your kids from the real world does them no favours, and that it's our responsibility to teach them how to think critically of the media they're exposed to. Other parents go for a more on/off approach and think these things are responsible for 'corrupting the youth' - or some nonsense like that. Other parenst will be okay with letting their kids play these games without any oversight, discourse, or investigation into the moral implications of what they're seeing.

Now, as I said, I myself am of the first type and would decline using the other two approaches to raise my children. That is my prerogative. Similarly, if you are of the second type, then that is your prerogative, and it isn't my place to say otherwise.

What annoys me, is when narrow minded prats like you think that your way is the only way and should therefore be forced on everyone else. Get over yourself.

By the way, if you called me 'idiot' twice to my face, you'd get a broken nose for your trouble, so I'd thank you not to do it when you hide behind your anonymity like a coward.
[quote][p][bold]Woodgnome[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]GardenVarietyMushroo m[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Woodgnome[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]GardenVarietyMushroo m[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Woodgnome[/bold] wrote: Independent critical review:- "If you’re okay with buying a game for your child that includes murder, bank robbery, arson, drug use, gratuitous use of the f-and-n-words, strip clubs, and other forms of illegal activity–then I suppose no one can stop you from buying it for your kid. I would just strongly caution you to assess your child’s comprehension and mental capacity before giving them free reign over the city of Los Santos." "The players kill prostitutes" Footnote to article "This article was amended on 27 December 2013 to clarify that killing prostitutes does not give a player additional points in the game, but having sex with them does".[/p][/quote]Whoop de doo. It's just the latest in a long line of stuff certain types of people get irate about. Video games, films, comics, violent cartoons, music, even books, plays and poetry. You just can't stop these prudes whining about something or other.[/p][/quote]What an idiot. Fine for adults if you like that sort of thing - not for primary kids. Have you got the vote? Very worrying.[/p][/quote]Listen mate, within the confines of the law, I'll be the arbiter of what is, or isn't appropriate for my children to see and do, what they learn and how - not you. I disagree with religious prosyletising for example, but would never dream of telling a devout parent that it isn't their right, as a parent, to teach their children about religion, no matter how much I disagree with it. This type of misguided moral crusades are illustrations of the very worst kind of presumption in my opinion, and should be treated with the contempt they deserve.[/p][/quote]I'm not your mate and you clearly have no sense of child protection values. We are talking about kids not adults - the latter can watch what they like. Do you advocate arming child soldiers as well?? Idiot. It's not a moral crusade - it's protecting children from adult themes.[/p][/quote]Okay, first off 'mate' is just a form of address. Personally, I'd be more than happy to go along with what I'd prefer to call you but then I'm sure you'd complain about it and the Argus would delete the comment. So - mate - let's stick to the discussion about video games. It's perfectly clear that such things are amoral, that is neither good nor bad. They can however send messages to our children that we might find morally questionable. Some parents, like myself, realise that hiding your kids from the real world does them no favours, and that it's our responsibility to teach them how to think critically of the media they're exposed to. Other parents go for a more on/off approach and think these things are responsible for 'corrupting the youth' - or some nonsense like that. Other parenst will be okay with letting their kids play these games without any oversight, discourse, or investigation into the moral implications of what they're seeing. Now, as I said, I myself am of the first type and would decline using the other two approaches to raise my children. That is my prerogative. Similarly, if you are of the second type, then that is your prerogative, and it isn't my place to say otherwise. What annoys me, is when narrow minded prats like you think that your way is the only way and should therefore be forced on everyone else. Get over yourself. By the way, if you called me 'idiot' twice to my face, you'd get a broken nose for your trouble, so I'd thank you not to do it when you hide behind your anonymity like a coward. GardenVarietyMushroom
  • Score: 11

2:39pm Mon 17 Feb 14

Woodgnome says...

GardenVarietyMushroo
m
wrote:
Woodgnome wrote:
GardenVarietyMushroo


m
wrote:
Woodgnome wrote:
GardenVarietyMushroo




m
wrote:
Woodgnome wrote:
Independent critical review:-
"If you’re okay with buying a game for your child that includes murder, bank robbery, arson, drug use, gratuitous use of the f-and-n-words, strip clubs, and other forms of illegal activity–then I suppose no one can stop you from buying it for your kid. I would just strongly caution you to assess your child’s comprehension and mental capacity before giving them free reign over the city of Los Santos."
"The players kill prostitutes"
Footnote to article "This article was amended on 27 December 2013 to clarify that killing prostitutes does not give a player additional points in the game, but having sex with them does".
Whoop de doo. It's just the latest in a long line of stuff certain types of people get irate about. Video games, films, comics, violent cartoons, music, even books, plays and poetry.

You just can't stop these prudes whining about something or other.
What an idiot. Fine for adults if you like that sort of thing - not for primary kids. Have you got the vote? Very worrying.
Listen mate, within the confines of the law, I'll be the arbiter of what is, or isn't appropriate for my children to see and do, what they learn and how - not you.

I disagree with religious prosyletising for example, but would never dream of telling a devout parent that it isn't their right, as a parent, to teach their children about religion, no matter how much I disagree with it.

This type of misguided moral crusades are illustrations of the very worst kind of presumption in my opinion, and should be treated with the contempt they deserve.
I'm not your mate and you clearly have no sense of child protection values. We are talking about kids not adults - the latter can watch what they like. Do you advocate arming child soldiers as well?? Idiot.

It's not a moral crusade - it's protecting children from adult themes.
Okay, first off 'mate' is just a form of address. Personally, I'd be more than happy to go along with what I'd prefer to call you but then I'm sure you'd complain about it and the Argus would delete the comment.

So - mate - let's stick to the discussion about video games. It's perfectly clear that such things are amoral, that is neither good nor bad. They can however send messages to our children that we might find morally questionable. Some parents, like myself, realise that hiding your kids from the real world does them no favours, and that it's our responsibility to teach them how to think critically of the media they're exposed to. Other parents go for a more on/off approach and think these things are responsible for 'corrupting the youth' - or some nonsense like that. Other parenst will be okay with letting their kids play these games without any oversight, discourse, or investigation into the moral implications of what they're seeing.

Now, as I said, I myself am of the first type and would decline using the other two approaches to raise my children. That is my prerogative. Similarly, if you are of the second type, then that is your prerogative, and it isn't my place to say otherwise.

What annoys me, is when narrow minded prats like you think that your way is the only way and should therefore be forced on everyone else. Get over yourself.

By the way, if you called me 'idiot' twice to my face, you'd get a broken nose for your trouble, so I'd thank you not to do it when you hide behind your anonymity like a coward.
Not your mate now or ever likely to be. You are a very silly, objectionable man who thinks he's Will Self - but more like Mill Shelf.

Whether you like it or not society sets standards and yours fall well below the norm. Other people will have to pick up the pieces of your distorted values. You are well known on these comments section for talking tosh against the tide of better informed opinion. You seems to want to settle criticism with violence - so much for your balanced judgement,
[quote][p][bold]GardenVarietyMushroo m[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Woodgnome[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]GardenVarietyMushroo m[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Woodgnome[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]GardenVarietyMushroo m[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Woodgnome[/bold] wrote: Independent critical review:- "If you’re okay with buying a game for your child that includes murder, bank robbery, arson, drug use, gratuitous use of the f-and-n-words, strip clubs, and other forms of illegal activity–then I suppose no one can stop you from buying it for your kid. I would just strongly caution you to assess your child’s comprehension and mental capacity before giving them free reign over the city of Los Santos." "The players kill prostitutes" Footnote to article "This article was amended on 27 December 2013 to clarify that killing prostitutes does not give a player additional points in the game, but having sex with them does".[/p][/quote]Whoop de doo. It's just the latest in a long line of stuff certain types of people get irate about. Video games, films, comics, violent cartoons, music, even books, plays and poetry. You just can't stop these prudes whining about something or other.[/p][/quote]What an idiot. Fine for adults if you like that sort of thing - not for primary kids. Have you got the vote? Very worrying.[/p][/quote]Listen mate, within the confines of the law, I'll be the arbiter of what is, or isn't appropriate for my children to see and do, what they learn and how - not you. I disagree with religious prosyletising for example, but would never dream of telling a devout parent that it isn't their right, as a parent, to teach their children about religion, no matter how much I disagree with it. This type of misguided moral crusades are illustrations of the very worst kind of presumption in my opinion, and should be treated with the contempt they deserve.[/p][/quote]I'm not your mate and you clearly have no sense of child protection values. We are talking about kids not adults - the latter can watch what they like. Do you advocate arming child soldiers as well?? Idiot. It's not a moral crusade - it's protecting children from adult themes.[/p][/quote]Okay, first off 'mate' is just a form of address. Personally, I'd be more than happy to go along with what I'd prefer to call you but then I'm sure you'd complain about it and the Argus would delete the comment. So - mate - let's stick to the discussion about video games. It's perfectly clear that such things are amoral, that is neither good nor bad. They can however send messages to our children that we might find morally questionable. Some parents, like myself, realise that hiding your kids from the real world does them no favours, and that it's our responsibility to teach them how to think critically of the media they're exposed to. Other parents go for a more on/off approach and think these things are responsible for 'corrupting the youth' - or some nonsense like that. Other parenst will be okay with letting their kids play these games without any oversight, discourse, or investigation into the moral implications of what they're seeing. Now, as I said, I myself am of the first type and would decline using the other two approaches to raise my children. That is my prerogative. Similarly, if you are of the second type, then that is your prerogative, and it isn't my place to say otherwise. What annoys me, is when narrow minded prats like you think that your way is the only way and should therefore be forced on everyone else. Get over yourself. By the way, if you called me 'idiot' twice to my face, you'd get a broken nose for your trouble, so I'd thank you not to do it when you hide behind your anonymity like a coward.[/p][/quote]Not your mate now or ever likely to be. You are a very silly, objectionable man who thinks he's Will Self - but more like Mill Shelf. Whether you like it or not society sets standards and yours fall well below the norm. Other people will have to pick up the pieces of your distorted values. You are well known on these comments section for talking tosh against the tide of better informed opinion. You seems to want to settle criticism with violence - so much for your balanced judgement, Woodgnome
  • Score: -12

3:41pm Mon 17 Feb 14

GardenVarietyMushroom says...

Woodgnome wrote:
GardenVarietyMushroo

m
wrote:
Woodgnome wrote:
GardenVarietyMushroo



m
wrote:
Woodgnome wrote:
GardenVarietyMushroo





m
wrote:
Woodgnome wrote:
Independent critical review:-
"If you’re okay with buying a game for your child that includes murder, bank robbery, arson, drug use, gratuitous use of the f-and-n-words, strip clubs, and other forms of illegal activity–then I suppose no one can stop you from buying it for your kid. I would just strongly caution you to assess your child’s comprehension and mental capacity before giving them free reign over the city of Los Santos."
"The players kill prostitutes"
Footnote to article "This article was amended on 27 December 2013 to clarify that killing prostitutes does not give a player additional points in the game, but having sex with them does".
Whoop de doo. It's just the latest in a long line of stuff certain types of people get irate about. Video games, films, comics, violent cartoons, music, even books, plays and poetry.

You just can't stop these prudes whining about something or other.
What an idiot. Fine for adults if you like that sort of thing - not for primary kids. Have you got the vote? Very worrying.
Listen mate, within the confines of the law, I'll be the arbiter of what is, or isn't appropriate for my children to see and do, what they learn and how - not you.

I disagree with religious prosyletising for example, but would never dream of telling a devout parent that it isn't their right, as a parent, to teach their children about religion, no matter how much I disagree with it.

This type of misguided moral crusades are illustrations of the very worst kind of presumption in my opinion, and should be treated with the contempt they deserve.
I'm not your mate and you clearly have no sense of child protection values. We are talking about kids not adults - the latter can watch what they like. Do you advocate arming child soldiers as well?? Idiot.

It's not a moral crusade - it's protecting children from adult themes.
Okay, first off 'mate' is just a form of address. Personally, I'd be more than happy to go along with what I'd prefer to call you but then I'm sure you'd complain about it and the Argus would delete the comment.

So - mate - let's stick to the discussion about video games. It's perfectly clear that such things are amoral, that is neither good nor bad. They can however send messages to our children that we might find morally questionable. Some parents, like myself, realise that hiding your kids from the real world does them no favours, and that it's our responsibility to teach them how to think critically of the media they're exposed to. Other parents go for a more on/off approach and think these things are responsible for 'corrupting the youth' - or some nonsense like that. Other parenst will be okay with letting their kids play these games without any oversight, discourse, or investigation into the moral implications of what they're seeing.

Now, as I said, I myself am of the first type and would decline using the other two approaches to raise my children. That is my prerogative. Similarly, if you are of the second type, then that is your prerogative, and it isn't my place to say otherwise.

What annoys me, is when narrow minded prats like you think that your way is the only way and should therefore be forced on everyone else. Get over yourself.

By the way, if you called me 'idiot' twice to my face, you'd get a broken nose for your trouble, so I'd thank you not to do it when you hide behind your anonymity like a coward.
Not your mate now or ever likely to be. You are a very silly, objectionable man who thinks he's Will Self - but more like Mill Shelf.

Whether you like it or not society sets standards and yours fall well below the norm. Other people will have to pick up the pieces of your distorted values. You are well known on these comments section for talking tosh against the tide of better informed opinion. You seems to want to settle criticism with violence - so much for your balanced judgement,
Once again, 'mate' is a simple form of address, nothing more. It isn't an invitation to friendship. I call bus drivers 'mate', likewise shop assistants, police, teachers, people who hold doors open for me etc... Not really sure why you find that such a difficult concept to grasp.

I don't think I'm anyone other than who I am. And I make no pretentions to be anyone other than myself. But hey - I'm always happy to bow to your superior knowledge of what I think, and have sanctimonious little nuggets like you tell me where you think my self awareness falls short. I've no idea who Will Self is but I'll pop off and google him after this and get back to you about whether or not I think I'm him, instead of me.

Society does indeed set standards - and although I personally think some of them are debateable, for the most part, those that are morally justifiable we call 'laws'. As for the rest, that falls under the kaleidoscope of opinion in our society that makes life so interesting. My opinions are outside the norm for sure, (rather than 'below' as you claim) and I'm quite proud of the fact that I hold myself to higher values and morals than so called 'normal people' accept - and if that makes me objectionable to people like you, then I'm proud of that too.

Well known on these comments section for talking tosh against the tide of better informed opinion? Ah well you'll have to excuse me... I didn't realise you'd gone to all the trouble of all getting together to talk about me. I can assure you however, that most of the things I comment on I'm very well informed about.

As for your last comment, I think I've admirably shown a willingness and ability to respond to crtiscism with reasoned debate - it's your use of cowardly insults that you'd never dare say to my face I find offensive.
[quote][p][bold]Woodgnome[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]GardenVarietyMushroo m[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Woodgnome[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]GardenVarietyMushroo m[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Woodgnome[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]GardenVarietyMushroo m[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Woodgnome[/bold] wrote: Independent critical review:- "If you’re okay with buying a game for your child that includes murder, bank robbery, arson, drug use, gratuitous use of the f-and-n-words, strip clubs, and other forms of illegal activity–then I suppose no one can stop you from buying it for your kid. I would just strongly caution you to assess your child’s comprehension and mental capacity before giving them free reign over the city of Los Santos." "The players kill prostitutes" Footnote to article "This article was amended on 27 December 2013 to clarify that killing prostitutes does not give a player additional points in the game, but having sex with them does".[/p][/quote]Whoop de doo. It's just the latest in a long line of stuff certain types of people get irate about. Video games, films, comics, violent cartoons, music, even books, plays and poetry. You just can't stop these prudes whining about something or other.[/p][/quote]What an idiot. Fine for adults if you like that sort of thing - not for primary kids. Have you got the vote? Very worrying.[/p][/quote]Listen mate, within the confines of the law, I'll be the arbiter of what is, or isn't appropriate for my children to see and do, what they learn and how - not you. I disagree with religious prosyletising for example, but would never dream of telling a devout parent that it isn't their right, as a parent, to teach their children about religion, no matter how much I disagree with it. This type of misguided moral crusades are illustrations of the very worst kind of presumption in my opinion, and should be treated with the contempt they deserve.[/p][/quote]I'm not your mate and you clearly have no sense of child protection values. We are talking about kids not adults - the latter can watch what they like. Do you advocate arming child soldiers as well?? Idiot. It's not a moral crusade - it's protecting children from adult themes.[/p][/quote]Okay, first off 'mate' is just a form of address. Personally, I'd be more than happy to go along with what I'd prefer to call you but then I'm sure you'd complain about it and the Argus would delete the comment. So - mate - let's stick to the discussion about video games. It's perfectly clear that such things are amoral, that is neither good nor bad. They can however send messages to our children that we might find morally questionable. Some parents, like myself, realise that hiding your kids from the real world does them no favours, and that it's our responsibility to teach them how to think critically of the media they're exposed to. Other parents go for a more on/off approach and think these things are responsible for 'corrupting the youth' - or some nonsense like that. Other parenst will be okay with letting their kids play these games without any oversight, discourse, or investigation into the moral implications of what they're seeing. Now, as I said, I myself am of the first type and would decline using the other two approaches to raise my children. That is my prerogative. Similarly, if you are of the second type, then that is your prerogative, and it isn't my place to say otherwise. What annoys me, is when narrow minded prats like you think that your way is the only way and should therefore be forced on everyone else. Get over yourself. By the way, if you called me 'idiot' twice to my face, you'd get a broken nose for your trouble, so I'd thank you not to do it when you hide behind your anonymity like a coward.[/p][/quote]Not your mate now or ever likely to be. You are a very silly, objectionable man who thinks he's Will Self - but more like Mill Shelf. Whether you like it or not society sets standards and yours fall well below the norm. Other people will have to pick up the pieces of your distorted values. You are well known on these comments section for talking tosh against the tide of better informed opinion. You seems to want to settle criticism with violence - so much for your balanced judgement,[/p][/quote]Once again, 'mate' is a simple form of address, nothing more. It isn't an invitation to friendship. I call bus drivers 'mate', likewise shop assistants, police, teachers, people who hold doors open for me etc... Not really sure why you find that such a difficult concept to grasp. I don't think I'm anyone other than who I am. And I make no pretentions to be anyone other than myself. But hey - I'm always happy to bow to your superior knowledge of what I think, and have sanctimonious little nuggets like you tell me where you think my self awareness falls short. I've no idea who Will Self is but I'll pop off and google him after this and get back to you about whether or not I think I'm him, instead of me. Society does indeed set standards - and although I personally think some of them are debateable, for the most part, those that are morally justifiable we call 'laws'. As for the rest, that falls under the kaleidoscope of opinion in our society that makes life so interesting. My opinions are outside the norm for sure, (rather than 'below' as you claim) and I'm quite proud of the fact that I hold myself to higher values and morals than so called 'normal people' accept - and if that makes me objectionable to people like you, then I'm proud of that too. Well known on these comments section for talking tosh against the tide of better informed opinion? Ah well you'll have to excuse me... I didn't realise you'd gone to all the trouble of all getting together to talk about me. I can assure you however, that most of the things I comment on I'm very well informed about. As for your last comment, I think I've admirably shown a willingness and ability to respond to crtiscism with reasoned debate - it's your use of cowardly insults that you'd never dare say to my face I find offensive. GardenVarietyMushroom
  • Score: 10

12:32pm Tue 18 Feb 14

county mad says...

GardenVarietyMushroo
m
wrote:
Frankly, in a country where our government are paying sex clubs to employ teenage girls to work for their benefits - I think there are higher priorities than video games....
Would you like to clarify that absurd assertion you deluded dimwit,I was going to call you a labour troll but even they wouldnt make up such a vile thing,would they??
[quote][p][bold]GardenVarietyMushroo m[/bold] wrote: Frankly, in a country where our government are paying sex clubs to employ teenage girls to work for their benefits - I think there are higher priorities than video games....[/p][/quote]Would you like to clarify that absurd assertion you deluded dimwit,I was going to call you a labour troll but even they wouldnt make up such a vile thing,would they?? county mad
  • Score: -7

12:56pm Tue 18 Feb 14

Woodgnome says...

county mad wrote:
GardenVarietyMushroo

m
wrote:
Frankly, in a country where our government are paying sex clubs to employ teenage girls to work for their benefits - I think there are higher priorities than video games....
Would you like to clarify that absurd assertion you deluded dimwit,I was going to call you a labour troll but even they wouldnt make up such a vile thing,would they??
Careful county mad - calling the dimwit a dimwit will make him threaten to break your nose!! I'm afraid you are wasting your time - GVM lives in a bubble of delusions all on his own.
[quote][p][bold]county mad[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]GardenVarietyMushroo m[/bold] wrote: Frankly, in a country where our government are paying sex clubs to employ teenage girls to work for their benefits - I think there are higher priorities than video games....[/p][/quote]Would you like to clarify that absurd assertion you deluded dimwit,I was going to call you a labour troll but even they wouldnt make up such a vile thing,would they??[/p][/quote]Careful county mad - calling the dimwit a dimwit will make him threaten to break your nose!! I'm afraid you are wasting your time - GVM lives in a bubble of delusions all on his own. Woodgnome
  • Score: -7

3:19pm Tue 18 Feb 14

GardenVarietyMushroom says...

county mad wrote:
GardenVarietyMushroo

m
wrote:
Frankly, in a country where our government are paying sex clubs to employ teenage girls to work for their benefits - I think there are higher priorities than video games....
Would you like to clarify that absurd assertion you deluded dimwit,I was going to call you a labour troll but even they wouldnt make up such a vile thing,would they??
Not sure why you'd think I'm a Labour troll - I have about as much respect for them as I do any of the other parties.

As for sources, there's plenty out there. It's been all over twitter recently for example but if you missed that, try these;

http://refuted.org.u
k/2014/01/06/sexindu
stry/

http://johnnyvoid.wo
rdpress.com/2013/08/
02/yet-more-governme
nt-enforced-sex-work
/

http://www.theguardi
an.com/commentisfree
/2014/jan/08/handout
s-massage-parlour-ma
dams-sex-industry-em
ployers

http://theunhivedmin
d.com/wordpress3/201
4/01/10/nazi-dwp-wor
kfare-slave-labour-w
ork-programme-forcin
g-unemployed-into-se
x-industry/
[quote][p][bold]county mad[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]GardenVarietyMushroo m[/bold] wrote: Frankly, in a country where our government are paying sex clubs to employ teenage girls to work for their benefits - I think there are higher priorities than video games....[/p][/quote]Would you like to clarify that absurd assertion you deluded dimwit,I was going to call you a labour troll but even they wouldnt make up such a vile thing,would they??[/p][/quote]Not sure why you'd think I'm a Labour troll - I have about as much respect for them as I do any of the other parties. As for sources, there's plenty out there. It's been all over twitter recently for example but if you missed that, try these; http://refuted.org.u k/2014/01/06/sexindu stry/ http://johnnyvoid.wo rdpress.com/2013/08/ 02/yet-more-governme nt-enforced-sex-work / http://www.theguardi an.com/commentisfree /2014/jan/08/handout s-massage-parlour-ma dams-sex-industry-em ployers http://theunhivedmin d.com/wordpress3/201 4/01/10/nazi-dwp-wor kfare-slave-labour-w ork-programme-forcin g-unemployed-into-se x-industry/ GardenVarietyMushroom
  • Score: 4

3:20pm Tue 18 Feb 14

GardenVarietyMushroom says...

Woodgnome wrote:
county mad wrote:
GardenVarietyMushroo


m
wrote:
Frankly, in a country where our government are paying sex clubs to employ teenage girls to work for their benefits - I think there are higher priorities than video games....
Would you like to clarify that absurd assertion you deluded dimwit,I was going to call you a labour troll but even they wouldnt make up such a vile thing,would they??
Careful county mad - calling the dimwit a dimwit will make him threaten to break your nose!! I'm afraid you are wasting your time - GVM lives in a bubble of delusions all on his own.
And yet my comments get positive votes, and yours don't.....
[quote][p][bold]Woodgnome[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]county mad[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]GardenVarietyMushroo m[/bold] wrote: Frankly, in a country where our government are paying sex clubs to employ teenage girls to work for their benefits - I think there are higher priorities than video games....[/p][/quote]Would you like to clarify that absurd assertion you deluded dimwit,I was going to call you a labour troll but even they wouldnt make up such a vile thing,would they??[/p][/quote]Careful county mad - calling the dimwit a dimwit will make him threaten to break your nose!! I'm afraid you are wasting your time - GVM lives in a bubble of delusions all on his own.[/p][/quote]And yet my comments get positive votes, and yours don't..... GardenVarietyMushroom
  • Score: 6

3:28pm Tue 18 Feb 14

Woodgnome says...

GardenVarietyMushroo
m
wrote:
Woodgnome wrote:
county mad wrote:
GardenVarietyMushroo



m
wrote:
Frankly, in a country where our government are paying sex clubs to employ teenage girls to work for their benefits - I think there are higher priorities than video games....
Would you like to clarify that absurd assertion you deluded dimwit,I was going to call you a labour troll but even they wouldnt make up such a vile thing,would they??
Careful county mad - calling the dimwit a dimwit will make him threaten to break your nose!! I'm afraid you are wasting your time - GVM lives in a bubble of delusions all on his own.
And yet my comments get positive votes, and yours don't.....
ha ha ha - but rarely old bean . You probably vote for yourself .
[quote][p][bold]GardenVarietyMushroo m[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Woodgnome[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]county mad[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]GardenVarietyMushroo m[/bold] wrote: Frankly, in a country where our government are paying sex clubs to employ teenage girls to work for their benefits - I think there are higher priorities than video games....[/p][/quote]Would you like to clarify that absurd assertion you deluded dimwit,I was going to call you a labour troll but even they wouldnt make up such a vile thing,would they??[/p][/quote]Careful county mad - calling the dimwit a dimwit will make him threaten to break your nose!! I'm afraid you are wasting your time - GVM lives in a bubble of delusions all on his own.[/p][/quote]And yet my comments get positive votes, and yours don't.....[/p][/quote]ha ha ha - but rarely old bean . You probably vote for yourself . Woodgnome
  • Score: -6

3:40pm Tue 18 Feb 14

GardenVarietyMushroom says...

Woodgnome wrote:
GardenVarietyMushroo

m
wrote:
Woodgnome wrote:
county mad wrote:
GardenVarietyMushroo




m
wrote:
Frankly, in a country where our government are paying sex clubs to employ teenage girls to work for their benefits - I think there are higher priorities than video games....
Would you like to clarify that absurd assertion you deluded dimwit,I was going to call you a labour troll but even they wouldnt make up such a vile thing,would they??
Careful county mad - calling the dimwit a dimwit will make him threaten to break your nose!! I'm afraid you are wasting your time - GVM lives in a bubble of delusions all on his own.
And yet my comments get positive votes, and yours don't.....
ha ha ha - but rarely old bean . You probably vote for yourself .
Riiight because if I disagree with you then endorsement from others is obviously a forgery. Do you realise how pathetic and small minded that makes you sound?
[quote][p][bold]Woodgnome[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]GardenVarietyMushroo m[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Woodgnome[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]county mad[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]GardenVarietyMushroo m[/bold] wrote: Frankly, in a country where our government are paying sex clubs to employ teenage girls to work for their benefits - I think there are higher priorities than video games....[/p][/quote]Would you like to clarify that absurd assertion you deluded dimwit,I was going to call you a labour troll but even they wouldnt make up such a vile thing,would they??[/p][/quote]Careful county mad - calling the dimwit a dimwit will make him threaten to break your nose!! I'm afraid you are wasting your time - GVM lives in a bubble of delusions all on his own.[/p][/quote]And yet my comments get positive votes, and yours don't.....[/p][/quote]ha ha ha - but rarely old bean . You probably vote for yourself .[/p][/quote]Riiight because if I disagree with you then endorsement from others is obviously a forgery. Do you realise how pathetic and small minded that makes you sound? GardenVarietyMushroom
  • Score: 6

3:42pm Tue 18 Feb 14

Woodgnome says...

GardenVarietyMushroo
m
wrote:
Woodgnome wrote:
GardenVarietyMushroo


m
wrote:
Woodgnome wrote:
county mad wrote:
GardenVarietyMushroo





m
wrote:
Frankly, in a country where our government are paying sex clubs to employ teenage girls to work for their benefits - I think there are higher priorities than video games....
Would you like to clarify that absurd assertion you deluded dimwit,I was going to call you a labour troll but even they wouldnt make up such a vile thing,would they??
Careful county mad - calling the dimwit a dimwit will make him threaten to break your nose!! I'm afraid you are wasting your time - GVM lives in a bubble of delusions all on his own.
And yet my comments get positive votes, and yours don't.....
ha ha ha - but rarely old bean . You probably vote for yourself .
Riiight because if I disagree with you then endorsement from others is obviously a forgery. Do you realise how pathetic and small minded that makes you sound?
I've picked up a troll!!
[quote][p][bold]GardenVarietyMushroo m[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Woodgnome[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]GardenVarietyMushroo m[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Woodgnome[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]county mad[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]GardenVarietyMushroo m[/bold] wrote: Frankly, in a country where our government are paying sex clubs to employ teenage girls to work for their benefits - I think there are higher priorities than video games....[/p][/quote]Would you like to clarify that absurd assertion you deluded dimwit,I was going to call you a labour troll but even they wouldnt make up such a vile thing,would they??[/p][/quote]Careful county mad - calling the dimwit a dimwit will make him threaten to break your nose!! I'm afraid you are wasting your time - GVM lives in a bubble of delusions all on his own.[/p][/quote]And yet my comments get positive votes, and yours don't.....[/p][/quote]ha ha ha - but rarely old bean . You probably vote for yourself .[/p][/quote]Riiight because if I disagree with you then endorsement from others is obviously a forgery. Do you realise how pathetic and small minded that makes you sound?[/p][/quote]I've picked up a troll!! Woodgnome
  • Score: -6

3:56pm Tue 18 Feb 14

GardenVarietyMushroom says...

Not at all. You said something and I responded. It's called conversation.

Now, following me round all the places I comment just to have a dig at me for making you look like a numpty - THAT'S trolling.
Not at all. You said something and I responded. It's called conversation. Now, following me round all the places I comment just to have a dig at me for making you look like a numpty - THAT'S trolling. GardenVarietyMushroom
  • Score: 6

4:42pm Tue 18 Feb 14

Lliswerry Man says...

inkyskin wrote:
how many times must it be repeated! there is NO rape scene in GTA! it's stupid blaming video games/rock music etc on the way children act!
Then you sir, need to recheck with your local opticians.

IT is clearly in the game and as part of a chain of events you follow. There are two men "Raping" a woman on the roadside, and you as the HERO come to her rescue.

Obviously if you have never played a game ALL the way through correctly, you have probably missed it, or maybe you are so engrossed in it you missed it, or maybe you have made yourself so "USED" to utter vile scenes your Brain dismissed it happening.
BUT it is there.... and in reality Rockstar did not have to put it in, they know full well youngster play the game, YOU only have to listen to all the headset chat within the game... KIDS.
[quote][p][bold]inkyskin[/bold] wrote: how many times must it be repeated! there is NO rape scene in GTA! it's stupid blaming video games/rock music etc on the way children act![/p][/quote]Then you sir, need to recheck with your local opticians. IT is clearly in the game and as part of a chain of events you follow. There are two men "Raping" a woman on the roadside, and you as the HERO come to her rescue. Obviously if you have never played a game ALL the way through correctly, you have probably missed it, or maybe you are so engrossed in it you missed it, or maybe you have made yourself so "USED" to utter vile scenes your Brain dismissed it happening. BUT it is there.... and in reality Rockstar did not have to put it in, they know full well youngster play the game, YOU only have to listen to all the headset chat within the game... KIDS. Lliswerry Man
  • Score: -5

4:59pm Tue 18 Feb 14

Woodgnome says...

GardenVarietyMushroo
m
wrote:
Not at all. You said something and I responded. It's called conversation.

Now, following me round all the places I comment just to have a dig at me for making you look like a numpty - THAT'S trolling.
You certainly have a good opinion of yourself in that I would actually want a conversation with you - the trouble is you comment on nearly every wretched topic on here (sometimes a multiplicity on the same story) so it's not hard to come across your ramblings. How would you describe threatening to break a nose - is that trolling or something more sinister?? Do try not to be such a conceited bore - there's a good boy.
[quote][p][bold]GardenVarietyMushroo m[/bold] wrote: Not at all. You said something and I responded. It's called conversation. Now, following me round all the places I comment just to have a dig at me for making you look like a numpty - THAT'S trolling.[/p][/quote]You certainly have a good opinion of yourself in that I would actually want a conversation with you - the trouble is you comment on nearly every wretched topic on here (sometimes a multiplicity on the same story) so it's not hard to come across your ramblings. How would you describe threatening to break a nose - is that trolling or something more sinister?? Do try not to be such a conceited bore - there's a good boy. Woodgnome
  • Score: -6

5:20pm Tue 18 Feb 14

GardenVarietyMushroom says...

Woodgnome wrote:
GardenVarietyMushroo

m
wrote:
Not at all. You said something and I responded. It's called conversation.

Now, following me round all the places I comment just to have a dig at me for making you look like a numpty - THAT'S trolling.
You certainly have a good opinion of yourself in that I would actually want a conversation with you - the trouble is you comment on nearly every wretched topic on here (sometimes a multiplicity on the same story) so it's not hard to come across your ramblings. How would you describe threatening to break a nose - is that trolling or something more sinister?? Do try not to be such a conceited bore - there's a good boy.
Perhaps if you weren't such an obnoxious little prig to begin with then I wouldn't have needed to remind you of your manners.
[quote][p][bold]Woodgnome[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]GardenVarietyMushroo m[/bold] wrote: Not at all. You said something and I responded. It's called conversation. Now, following me round all the places I comment just to have a dig at me for making you look like a numpty - THAT'S trolling.[/p][/quote]You certainly have a good opinion of yourself in that I would actually want a conversation with you - the trouble is you comment on nearly every wretched topic on here (sometimes a multiplicity on the same story) so it's not hard to come across your ramblings. How would you describe threatening to break a nose - is that trolling or something more sinister?? Do try not to be such a conceited bore - there's a good boy.[/p][/quote]Perhaps if you weren't such an obnoxious little prig to begin with then I wouldn't have needed to remind you of your manners. GardenVarietyMushroom
  • Score: 6

6:02pm Tue 18 Feb 14

Woodgnome says...

GardenVarietyMushroo
m
wrote:
Woodgnome wrote:
GardenVarietyMushroo


m
wrote:
Not at all. You said something and I responded. It's called conversation.

Now, following me round all the places I comment just to have a dig at me for making you look like a numpty - THAT'S trolling.
You certainly have a good opinion of yourself in that I would actually want a conversation with you - the trouble is you comment on nearly every wretched topic on here (sometimes a multiplicity on the same story) so it's not hard to come across your ramblings. How would you describe threatening to break a nose - is that trolling or something more sinister?? Do try not to be such a conceited bore - there's a good boy.
Perhaps if you weren't such an obnoxious little prig to begin with then I wouldn't have needed to remind you of your manners.
LOL!!
[quote][p][bold]GardenVarietyMushroo m[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Woodgnome[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]GardenVarietyMushroo m[/bold] wrote: Not at all. You said something and I responded. It's called conversation. Now, following me round all the places I comment just to have a dig at me for making you look like a numpty - THAT'S trolling.[/p][/quote]You certainly have a good opinion of yourself in that I would actually want a conversation with you - the trouble is you comment on nearly every wretched topic on here (sometimes a multiplicity on the same story) so it's not hard to come across your ramblings. How would you describe threatening to break a nose - is that trolling or something more sinister?? Do try not to be such a conceited bore - there's a good boy.[/p][/quote]Perhaps if you weren't such an obnoxious little prig to begin with then I wouldn't have needed to remind you of your manners.[/p][/quote]LOL!! Woodgnome
  • Score: -7

9:26pm Tue 18 Feb 14

GardenVarietyMushroom says...

county mad wrote:
GardenVarietyMushroo

m
wrote:
Frankly, in a country where our government are paying sex clubs to employ teenage girls to work for their benefits - I think there are higher priorities than video games....
Would you like to clarify that absurd assertion you deluded dimwit,I was going to call you a labour troll but even they wouldnt make up such a vile thing,would they??
Hedre's some more for you

http://www.ibtimes.c
o.uk/uk-government-p
ays-sex-clubs-employ
-teenage-girls-14366
37

http://www.thesunday
times.co.uk/sto/news
/uk_news/National/ar
ticle1376579.ece
[quote][p][bold]county mad[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]GardenVarietyMushroo m[/bold] wrote: Frankly, in a country where our government are paying sex clubs to employ teenage girls to work for their benefits - I think there are higher priorities than video games....[/p][/quote]Would you like to clarify that absurd assertion you deluded dimwit,I was going to call you a labour troll but even they wouldnt make up such a vile thing,would they??[/p][/quote]Hedre's some more for you http://www.ibtimes.c o.uk/uk-government-p ays-sex-clubs-employ -teenage-girls-14366 37 http://www.thesunday times.co.uk/sto/news /uk_news/National/ar ticle1376579.ece GardenVarietyMushroom
  • Score: 2

9:29pm Tue 18 Feb 14

GardenVarietyMushroom says...

By the way county mad - feel free to apologise (like a man) anytime you like...
By the way county mad - feel free to apologise (like a man) anytime you like... GardenVarietyMushroom
  • Score: 3

10:47pm Tue 18 Feb 14

BigAng says...

Good grief! I feel as if I've just walked in on a scene from Rocky IV.
It'll take me a while to ascertain who's who though....I'm at the scoring stage right now. I'm thinking that GVM may well be Balboa & WG potentially Drago?
Ding Ding!
Good grief! I feel as if I've just walked in on a scene from Rocky IV. It'll take me a while to ascertain who's who though....I'm at the scoring stage right now. I'm thinking that GVM may well be Balboa & WG potentially Drago? Ding Ding! BigAng
  • Score: 3

3:39pm Wed 19 Feb 14

welshmen says...

GardenVarietyMushroo
m
wrote:
Frankly, in a country where our government are paying sex clubs to employ teenage girls to work for their benefits - I think there are higher priorities than video games....
Would that be legal sex clubs for eighteen to twenty four year old's to work for, Male or Female
jobs that the DWP pay that benefit are: key word AUXILIARY....

* those involved in the sale, manufacture, distribution, and display of sex related products:

* auxiliary workers in lap/pole dancing clubs - e.g. bar staff, door staff, receptionists or cleaners:

*auxiliary workers in strip clubs - e.g. bar staff, door staff, receptionist, or cleaners:

*auxiliary workers in saunas/massage parlours e.g. bar staff, door staff, receptionist or cleaners:

* glamour mode photographers:

*web-cam operators:

* TV camera operators etc

"there are higher priorities than video games" your right there:

And that's the media hiding those that facilitate the sex grooming of young children 11-13 year old's, a bottle of vodka drugs and raped by 15-20 cowards a night, all because they might offend the mighty Religion of Peace... or Catholicism even younger children, this needs bringing to the attention of the public every time there's an arrest, and just to clear the air, paedophiles and rapists if found guilty should be executed WHAT ever COLOUR or WHAT ever RELIGION....but that's just my opinion....
[quote][p][bold]GardenVarietyMushroo m[/bold] wrote: Frankly, in a country where our government are paying sex clubs to employ teenage girls to work for their benefits - I think there are higher priorities than video games....[/p][/quote]Would that be legal sex clubs for eighteen to twenty four year old's to work for, Male or Female jobs that the DWP pay that benefit are: key word AUXILIARY.... * those involved in the sale, manufacture, distribution, and display of sex related products: * auxiliary workers in lap/pole dancing clubs - e.g. bar staff, door staff, receptionists or cleaners: *auxiliary workers in strip clubs - e.g. bar staff, door staff, receptionist, or cleaners: *auxiliary workers in saunas/massage parlours e.g. bar staff, door staff, receptionist or cleaners: * glamour mode photographers: *web-cam operators: * TV camera operators etc "there are higher priorities than video games" your right there: And that's the media hiding those that facilitate the sex grooming of young children 11-13 year old's, a bottle of vodka drugs and raped by 15-20 cowards a night, all because they might offend the mighty Religion of Peace... or Catholicism even younger children, this needs bringing to the attention of the public every time there's an arrest, and just to clear the air, paedophiles and rapists if found guilty should be executed WHAT ever COLOUR or WHAT ever RELIGION....but that's just my opinion.... welshmen
  • Score: 0

4:07pm Wed 19 Feb 14

welshmen says...

welshmen wrote:
GardenVarietyMushroo

m
wrote:
Frankly, in a country where our government are paying sex clubs to employ teenage girls to work for their benefits - I think there are higher priorities than video games....
Would that be legal sex clubs for eighteen to twenty four year old's to work for, Male or Female
jobs that the DWP pay that benefit are: key word AUXILIARY....

* those involved in the sale, manufacture, distribution, and display of sex related products:

* auxiliary workers in lap/pole dancing clubs - e.g. bar staff, door staff, receptionists or cleaners:

*auxiliary workers in strip clubs - e.g. bar staff, door staff, receptionist, or cleaners:

*auxiliary workers in saunas/massage parlours e.g. bar staff, door staff, receptionist or cleaners:

* glamour mode photographers:

*web-cam operators:

* TV camera operators etc

"there are higher priorities than video games" your right there:

And that's the media hiding those that facilitate the sex grooming of young children 11-13 year old's, a bottle of vodka drugs and raped by 15-20 cowards a night, all because they might offend the mighty Religion of Peace... or Catholicism even younger children, this needs bringing to the attention of the public every time there's an arrest, and just to clear the air, paedophiles and rapists if found guilty should be executed WHAT ever COLOUR or WHAT ever RELIGION....but that's just my opinion....
GVM: have a look, I know it's not your favourite rag, what's your opinion on this article, if you have one,

http://www.dailymail
.co.uk/news/article-
2562555/Labour's-chi
ld-sex-apologists-Ho
w-three-partys-senio
r-figures-campaigned
-vile-paedophile-gro
up-probed-police-abu
sing-children-indust
rial-scale.htlm

also: http://www.dailymail
.co.uk/news/article-
2562518/The-truth-La
bour-apologists-paed
ophile-police-probe-
child-sex-group-link
ed-party-officials-w
ake-Savile.htlm
[quote][p][bold]welshmen[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]GardenVarietyMushroo m[/bold] wrote: Frankly, in a country where our government are paying sex clubs to employ teenage girls to work for their benefits - I think there are higher priorities than video games....[/p][/quote]Would that be legal sex clubs for eighteen to twenty four year old's to work for, Male or Female jobs that the DWP pay that benefit are: key word AUXILIARY.... * those involved in the sale, manufacture, distribution, and display of sex related products: * auxiliary workers in lap/pole dancing clubs - e.g. bar staff, door staff, receptionists or cleaners: *auxiliary workers in strip clubs - e.g. bar staff, door staff, receptionist, or cleaners: *auxiliary workers in saunas/massage parlours e.g. bar staff, door staff, receptionist or cleaners: * glamour mode photographers: *web-cam operators: * TV camera operators etc "there are higher priorities than video games" your right there: And that's the media hiding those that facilitate the sex grooming of young children 11-13 year old's, a bottle of vodka drugs and raped by 15-20 cowards a night, all because they might offend the mighty Religion of Peace... or Catholicism even younger children, this needs bringing to the attention of the public every time there's an arrest, and just to clear the air, paedophiles and rapists if found guilty should be executed WHAT ever COLOUR or WHAT ever RELIGION....but that's just my opinion....[/p][/quote]GVM: have a look, I know it's not your favourite rag, what's your opinion on this article, if you have one, http://www.dailymail .co.uk/news/article- 2562555/Labour's-chi ld-sex-apologists-Ho w-three-partys-senio r-figures-campaigned -vile-paedophile-gro up-probed-police-abu sing-children-indust rial-scale.htlm also: http://www.dailymail .co.uk/news/article- 2562518/The-truth-La bour-apologists-paed ophile-police-probe- child-sex-group-link ed-party-officials-w ake-Savile.htlm welshmen
  • Score: 0

Comments are closed on this article.

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