Newport cannabis producer spared a jail term

A DRUG dealer who ran a cannabis farm in an attempt to clear thousands of pounds of debts was spared jail.

Andrew Hoare, 38, had the “sophisticated” facility inside his home with 25 plants able to yield more than £8,000 of the drug, Newport Crown Court heard.

The mechanical engineer of Cotswold Close, Newport, sold the drug after racking up debts including £12,000 on a bank account, the court heard.

Judge Robert Craven gave him a suspended 12-month custodial sentence after hearing he had a “fragile” state of mind and any prison time could have an impact on an autistic relative.

Judge Craven told him: “In my view, a custodial sentence is appropriate, but in the circumstances it is one, in my judgment, that can be suspended.”

Police found 24 cannabis plants and a “mother plant” able to produce better quality cannabis in his garage and home during a raid July, said prosecutor Gareth James.

Judge Craven told the court the “sophisticated” facility spread over several rooms must have required some expense to set up.

Hoare pleaded guilty to two charges of producing the class B drug and a further charge of possessing a class B drug with intent to supply.

His barrister, Mark Pattrick, said that his client had admitted that dealing had taken place and that he was himself a “heavy” cannabis user.

He stressed that Hoare had helped his autistic relative with transport and had referred himself to the Kaleidoscope project, which assists people with substance misuse problems.

The probation service added that he had been diagnosed with depression and received medication for the condition.

Judge Craven gave him a one-year jail term, suspended for 18 months, for all three offences to run concurrently.

He also gave him a three-month overnight curfew, a 12-month supervision order and set up a timetable to examine the possibility of recovering funds gained through the sale of the drug under the Proceeds of Crime Act.

Comments (33)

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5:12pm Wed 26 Feb 14

Abertillery29 says...

We all have pressures in our lives but we don't use our relatives as excuses why we shouldn't go to prison whilst we produce cannabis plants to fund a life style. We also do not have the probation service saying we are 'fragile'.
Another criminal who should have gone to prison.
We all have pressures in our lives but we don't use our relatives as excuses why we shouldn't go to prison whilst we produce cannabis plants to fund a life style. We also do not have the probation service saying we are 'fragile'. Another criminal who should have gone to prison. Abertillery29
  • Score: 8

6:00pm Wed 26 Feb 14

richie55 says...

This is the second drug dealer reported in the Argus today who has not been sent to prison. It must make the police wonder why they bother and what does it say about our weak courts and our City in general.
This is the second drug dealer reported in the Argus today who has not been sent to prison. It must make the police wonder why they bother and what does it say about our weak courts and our City in general. richie55
  • Score: 6

6:22pm Wed 26 Feb 14

Forgive Me If I'm Wrong says...

A drug dealer with depression and a needy relative, another wanting to buy a tombstone and a dangerous drunk driver who couldn't comprehend the consequences of her actions. Newport Crown Court - where they don't like to 'offend' the offenders! You couldn't make it up
A drug dealer with depression and a needy relative, another wanting to buy a tombstone and a dangerous drunk driver who couldn't comprehend the consequences of her actions. Newport Crown Court - where they don't like to 'offend' the offenders! You couldn't make it up Forgive Me If I'm Wrong
  • Score: 10

6:30pm Wed 26 Feb 14

GardenVarietyMushroom says...

Okay, you three need to remember that it costs anywhere from around £25,000-£35,000 to keep a prisoner in jail for a year. You might be happy for the judge to waste taxpayer's money on such a (non) crime like this - but I'd rather that money got spent on more important things myself.

In addition, there's absolutely no justification, moral or otherwise, for the illegality of this particular plant, and it's about time the law was changed to reflect that.
Okay, you three need to remember that it costs anywhere from around £25,000-£35,000 to keep a prisoner in jail for a year. You might be happy for the judge to waste taxpayer's money on such a (non) crime like this - but I'd rather that money got spent on more important things myself. In addition, there's absolutely no justification, moral or otherwise, for the illegality of this particular plant, and it's about time the law was changed to reflect that. GardenVarietyMushroom
  • Score: 0

6:49pm Wed 26 Feb 14

cantbelieveitsnotbetter says...

Some sense from the courts,, does no good clogging up prison with people luke this. technically hes a drug dealer, but he could have sold harder stuff and made more money and quicker. I'm not sure about decriminalising cannabis etc. but as it stands millions each year is spent following the letter of the law, identifying, gathering evidence, preparing for court, going to court etc. etc.
I bet most police feel the same, thats its a waste of time and money chasing this class of law breaker, and I doubt many actually want to chase and prosicute because on moral/ethical grounds, its because they have to and it is easier to identify/charge and prosicute (regardless of sentencing outcome) itsstill figures.
I would like to see such drugs ccontrolled, save the money, stigmatisation and labelling of people as criminals for something thats is less harmfull than legal drugs, tobacco, alcohol, synthetic 'legal highs' and the like.
In a perfect world (imagine that) no one would harm themselves by taking ant kind of drug, but the horse has bolted, we have limited resources to do what we can to rwduce harm, so choose your battles. thw 'war on drugs' method spreads to thinly our efforts. and by taking this view, doesnt mean we agree wirh or condone such behaviour, it just means we are strategic in our approach to reduce harm, and focus on more severe crimes- I don't think there would be to many people who given the choice, would persue cannabis criminals over violent, theiving, raping, abusive or predatory criminals that do wreck lives, communities and wider society and therefore warrent additional resources.
if the guy is reading this, realise how 'lucky' you are to not be inside and better yourself. Good luck.
Some sense from the courts,, does no good clogging up prison with people luke this. technically hes a drug dealer, but he could have sold harder stuff and made more money and quicker. I'm not sure about decriminalising cannabis etc. but as it stands millions each year is spent following the letter of the law, identifying, gathering evidence, preparing for court, going to court etc. etc. I bet most police feel the same, thats its a waste of time and money chasing this class of law breaker, and I doubt many actually want to chase and prosicute because on moral/ethical grounds, its because they have to and it is easier to identify/charge and prosicute (regardless of sentencing outcome) itsstill figures. I would like to see such drugs ccontrolled, save the money, stigmatisation and labelling of people as criminals for something thats is less harmfull than legal drugs, tobacco, alcohol, synthetic 'legal highs' and the like. In a perfect world (imagine that) no one would harm themselves by taking ant kind of drug, but the horse has bolted, we have limited resources to do what we can to rwduce harm, so choose your battles. thw 'war on drugs' method spreads to thinly our efforts. and by taking this view, doesnt mean we agree wirh or condone such behaviour, it just means we are strategic in our approach to reduce harm, and focus on more severe crimes- I don't think there would be to many people who given the choice, would persue cannabis criminals over violent, theiving, raping, abusive or predatory criminals that do wreck lives, communities and wider society and therefore warrent additional resources. if the guy is reading this, realise how 'lucky' you are to not be inside and better yourself. Good luck. cantbelieveitsnotbetter
  • Score: 0

10:23pm Wed 26 Feb 14

emlynkide says...

Abertillery29 wrote:
We all have pressures in our lives but we don't use our relatives as excuses why we shouldn't go to prison whilst we produce cannabis plants to fund a life style. We also do not have the probation service saying we are 'fragile'.
Another criminal who should have gone to prison.
this should open the door for any dealer.
[quote][p][bold]Abertillery29[/bold] wrote: We all have pressures in our lives but we don't use our relatives as excuses why we shouldn't go to prison whilst we produce cannabis plants to fund a life style. We also do not have the probation service saying we are 'fragile'. Another criminal who should have gone to prison.[/p][/quote]this should open the door for any dealer. emlynkide
  • Score: 3

8:52am Thu 27 Feb 14

Dai Rear says...

"His barrister, Mark Pattrick, said that his client had admitted that dealing had taken place and that he was himself a “heavy” cannabis user. The probation service added that he had been diagnosed with depression and received medication for the condition." His poor old GP probably wonders why he bothers. Prescribe an anti depressant and the idiot immediately nullifies its effect with a psychotropic drug of unknown effect. We must expect an infestation of "legalisers" now. Well, let's watch the Colorado experiment-and remind ourselves that probably the top cannabis consuming country of the world, Jamaica, is a very dangerous place indeed.
"His barrister, Mark Pattrick, said that his client had admitted that dealing had taken place and that he was himself a “heavy” cannabis user. The probation service added that he had been diagnosed with depression and received medication for the condition." His poor old GP probably wonders why he bothers. Prescribe an anti depressant and the idiot immediately nullifies its effect with a psychotropic drug of unknown effect. We must expect an infestation of "legalisers" now. Well, let's watch the Colorado experiment-and remind ourselves that probably the top cannabis consuming country of the world, Jamaica, is a very dangerous place indeed. Dai Rear
  • Score: 8

11:31am Thu 27 Feb 14

mikewelsh says...

GardenVarietyMushroo
m
wrote:
Okay, you three need to remember that it costs anywhere from around £25,000-£35,000 to keep a prisoner in jail for a year. You might be happy for the judge to waste taxpayer's money on such a (non) crime like this - but I'd rather that money got spent on more important things myself.

In addition, there's absolutely no justification, moral or otherwise, for the illegality of this particular plant, and it's about time the law was changed to reflect that.
Fact, it damages the brain. St Cadocs is full of young weed smokers, shortage of beds as there's that many, how much does it cost the Nhs? maybe cheaper to imprison the dealers and rid our streets of the misery the dealers are creating. Simple, If its not there They cant take it. Fact is, This guy admitted to buying the equipment for produceing, selling and using. Pre.meditated crime, should be jail.
[quote][p][bold]GardenVarietyMushroo m[/bold] wrote: Okay, you three need to remember that it costs anywhere from around £25,000-£35,000 to keep a prisoner in jail for a year. You might be happy for the judge to waste taxpayer's money on such a (non) crime like this - but I'd rather that money got spent on more important things myself. In addition, there's absolutely no justification, moral or otherwise, for the illegality of this particular plant, and it's about time the law was changed to reflect that.[/p][/quote]Fact, it damages the brain. St Cadocs is full of young weed smokers, shortage of beds as there's that many, how much does it cost the Nhs? maybe cheaper to imprison the dealers and rid our streets of the misery the dealers are creating. Simple, If its not there They cant take it. Fact is, This guy admitted to buying the equipment for produceing, selling and using. Pre.meditated crime, should be jail. mikewelsh
  • Score: 3

12:24pm Thu 27 Feb 14

whatintheworld says...

Dai Rear wrote:
"His barrister, Mark Pattrick, said that his client had admitted that dealing had taken place and that he was himself a “heavy” cannabis user. The probation service added that he had been diagnosed with depression and received medication for the condition." His poor old GP probably wonders why he bothers. Prescribe an anti depressant and the idiot immediately nullifies its effect with a psychotropic drug of unknown effect. We must expect an infestation of "legalisers" now. Well, let's watch the Colorado experiment-and remind ourselves that probably the top cannabis consuming country of the world, Jamaica, is a very dangerous place indeed.
cannabis has a - proven - positive effect on some mental disorders such as depression. his gp is probably glad hes medicating himself!

anti depressants are not "nulified" by cannabis. do you have any proof for this claim?

the effects of cannabis are hardly "unknown". as a species, we've been using it for hundreds, if not thousands of years.

we do not have to wait for the results of the "colorado experiment". there are plenty of contries in the world who have already proved you can safley regulate cannabis. see portugal and netherlands.

politicians in colorado are gob smacked at the amount of tax their approach has brought in, with other states looking to replicate colorado's system.

italy, spain, usa, new zealand, canada and australia all have higher rates of consumtion of cannabis than jamaica. by a LONG way.
[quote][p][bold]Dai Rear[/bold] wrote: "His barrister, Mark Pattrick, said that his client had admitted that dealing had taken place and that he was himself a “heavy” cannabis user. The probation service added that he had been diagnosed with depression and received medication for the condition." His poor old GP probably wonders why he bothers. Prescribe an anti depressant and the idiot immediately nullifies its effect with a psychotropic drug of unknown effect. We must expect an infestation of "legalisers" now. Well, let's watch the Colorado experiment-and remind ourselves that probably the top cannabis consuming country of the world, Jamaica, is a very dangerous place indeed.[/p][/quote]cannabis has a - proven - positive effect on some mental disorders such as depression. his gp is probably glad hes medicating himself! anti depressants are not "nulified" by cannabis. do you have any proof for this claim? the effects of cannabis are hardly "unknown". as a species, we've been using it for hundreds, if not thousands of years. we do not have to wait for the results of the "colorado experiment". there are plenty of contries in the world who have already proved you can safley regulate cannabis. see portugal and netherlands. politicians in colorado are gob smacked at the amount of tax their approach has brought in, with other states looking to replicate colorado's system. italy, spain, usa, new zealand, canada and australia all have higher rates of consumtion of cannabis than jamaica. by a LONG way. whatintheworld
  • Score: -1

1:13pm Thu 27 Feb 14

GardenVarietyMushroom says...

mikewelsh wrote:
GardenVarietyMushroo

m
wrote:
Okay, you three need to remember that it costs anywhere from around £25,000-£35,000 to keep a prisoner in jail for a year. You might be happy for the judge to waste taxpayer's money on such a (non) crime like this - but I'd rather that money got spent on more important things myself.

In addition, there's absolutely no justification, moral or otherwise, for the illegality of this particular plant, and it's about time the law was changed to reflect that.
Fact, it damages the brain. St Cadocs is full of young weed smokers, shortage of beds as there's that many, how much does it cost the Nhs? maybe cheaper to imprison the dealers and rid our streets of the misery the dealers are creating. Simple, If its not there They cant take it. Fact is, This guy admitted to buying the equipment for produceing, selling and using. Pre.meditated crime, should be jail.
Damages the brain? So does boxing - let's lock all the boxers up eh? Sorry to be so trite, but so what? There are only about a bazillion other things in daily and common use in our lives that 'damage the brain'. And if St. Cadoc's is full of such people (is that fact or just supposition?) then for every one person in there, I'd imagine there are possibly hundreds, or thousands, or more that aren't. And those that are in there will not be in there solely because they're cannabis users. There are complex phsycological, physiological and sociological factors that contribute to the mental health of these poor unfortunates. Blaming it all on cannabis consumption is just pathetic.
[quote][p][bold]mikewelsh[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]GardenVarietyMushroo m[/bold] wrote: Okay, you three need to remember that it costs anywhere from around £25,000-£35,000 to keep a prisoner in jail for a year. You might be happy for the judge to waste taxpayer's money on such a (non) crime like this - but I'd rather that money got spent on more important things myself. In addition, there's absolutely no justification, moral or otherwise, for the illegality of this particular plant, and it's about time the law was changed to reflect that.[/p][/quote]Fact, it damages the brain. St Cadocs is full of young weed smokers, shortage of beds as there's that many, how much does it cost the Nhs? maybe cheaper to imprison the dealers and rid our streets of the misery the dealers are creating. Simple, If its not there They cant take it. Fact is, This guy admitted to buying the equipment for produceing, selling and using. Pre.meditated crime, should be jail.[/p][/quote]Damages the brain? So does boxing - let's lock all the boxers up eh? Sorry to be so trite, but so what? There are only about a bazillion other things in daily and common use in our lives that 'damage the brain'. And if St. Cadoc's is full of such people (is that fact or just supposition?) then for every one person in there, I'd imagine there are possibly hundreds, or thousands, or more that aren't. And those that are in there will not be in there solely because they're cannabis users. There are complex phsycological, physiological and sociological factors that contribute to the mental health of these poor unfortunates. Blaming it all on cannabis consumption is just pathetic. GardenVarietyMushroom
  • Score: -1

3:15pm Thu 27 Feb 14

mikewelsh says...

GardenVarietyMushroo
m
wrote:
mikewelsh wrote:
GardenVarietyMushroo


m
wrote:
Okay, you three need to remember that it costs anywhere from around £25,000-£35,000 to keep a prisoner in jail for a year. You might be happy for the judge to waste taxpayer's money on such a (non) crime like this - but I'd rather that money got spent on more important things myself.

In addition, there's absolutely no justification, moral or otherwise, for the illegality of this particular plant, and it's about time the law was changed to reflect that.
Fact, it damages the brain. St Cadocs is full of young weed smokers, shortage of beds as there's that many, how much does it cost the Nhs? maybe cheaper to imprison the dealers and rid our streets of the misery the dealers are creating. Simple, If its not there They cant take it. Fact is, This guy admitted to buying the equipment for produceing, selling and using. Pre.meditated crime, should be jail.
Damages the brain? So does boxing - let's lock all the boxers up eh? Sorry to be so trite, but so what? There are only about a bazillion other things in daily and common use in our lives that 'damage the brain'. And if St. Cadoc's is full of such people (is that fact or just supposition?) then for every one person in there, I'd imagine there are possibly hundreds, or thousands, or more that aren't. And those that are in there will not be in there solely because they're cannabis users. There are complex phsycological, physiological and sociological factors that contribute to the mental health of these poor unfortunates. Blaming it all on cannabis consumption is just pathetic.
I have worked at st cadocs as recent as 6months ago, if you ever go to the wards, they will tell you there is an increase in section 2 and 3's due to the strength of the skunk they smoke, we are not dealing with the mild 60's stuff anymore, you can even ask at central police station they will tell you the cells hold them regulary as there arnt enough beds at st cadocs. Youngters are at big risk, due to the brain chemistry... Using Boxers for brain damage is a poor arguement.
[quote][p][bold]GardenVarietyMushroo m[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mikewelsh[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]GardenVarietyMushroo m[/bold] wrote: Okay, you three need to remember that it costs anywhere from around £25,000-£35,000 to keep a prisoner in jail for a year. You might be happy for the judge to waste taxpayer's money on such a (non) crime like this - but I'd rather that money got spent on more important things myself. In addition, there's absolutely no justification, moral or otherwise, for the illegality of this particular plant, and it's about time the law was changed to reflect that.[/p][/quote]Fact, it damages the brain. St Cadocs is full of young weed smokers, shortage of beds as there's that many, how much does it cost the Nhs? maybe cheaper to imprison the dealers and rid our streets of the misery the dealers are creating. Simple, If its not there They cant take it. Fact is, This guy admitted to buying the equipment for produceing, selling and using. Pre.meditated crime, should be jail.[/p][/quote]Damages the brain? So does boxing - let's lock all the boxers up eh? Sorry to be so trite, but so what? There are only about a bazillion other things in daily and common use in our lives that 'damage the brain'. And if St. Cadoc's is full of such people (is that fact or just supposition?) then for every one person in there, I'd imagine there are possibly hundreds, or thousands, or more that aren't. And those that are in there will not be in there solely because they're cannabis users. There are complex phsycological, physiological and sociological factors that contribute to the mental health of these poor unfortunates. Blaming it all on cannabis consumption is just pathetic.[/p][/quote]I have worked at st cadocs as recent as 6months ago, if you ever go to the wards, they will tell you there is an increase in section 2 and 3's due to the strength of the skunk they smoke, we are not dealing with the mild 60's stuff anymore, you can even ask at central police station they will tell you the cells hold them regulary as there arnt enough beds at st cadocs. Youngters are at big risk, due to the brain chemistry... Using Boxers for brain damage is a poor arguement. mikewelsh
  • Score: 6

3:26pm Thu 27 Feb 14

Dai Rear says...

Psychosis and heavy cannabis use are not related. Have it your way. There is, after all, probably only one bullet in the chamber of the revolver pointing at your head.
Psychosis and heavy cannabis use are not related. Have it your way. There is, after all, probably only one bullet in the chamber of the revolver pointing at your head. Dai Rear
  • Score: -1

6:13pm Thu 27 Feb 14

cantbelieveitsnotbetter says...

more people end up in hospital or in the care of mental health ( as well as countless others who should be but resources dont allow) for alcohol use than any orher drug.
there's no getting away from the fact that cannabis is bad for you but so is caffine and dont get me started on fast/ junk food.
if people are pre disposed to or have mental health issues then cannabis in the majority will add to problems etc. but the same is said for alcohol, cells filled up with drunks, hospital beds and a&e the same.
there are now stronger strains of cannabis of course wirh hybridisation and ease of access, st cadocs and the like are not filled with people because of cannabis use, they might however be using the drug but its not attributable as the cause of mental ill health alone or in any high facoring. It would be a class a if that were the case.if all the alcoholics were infact addicted to cannabis rather than drink the world would be a better place, they and society would still have a problem but not as severe or individually and familiarly devastating.
the point was not weather cannabis is good, of course its not, some just feel that its no way near as harmful as legal drugs like alcohol and therfore locking people up for it is not only harmfull to the economy and their personal lives but is hypocrisy of the highest order.
more people end up in hospital or in the care of mental health ( as well as countless others who should be but resources dont allow) for alcohol use than any orher drug. there's no getting away from the fact that cannabis is bad for you but so is caffine and dont get me started on fast/ junk food. if people are pre disposed to or have mental health issues then cannabis in the majority will add to problems etc. but the same is said for alcohol, cells filled up with drunks, hospital beds and a&e the same. there are now stronger strains of cannabis of course wirh hybridisation and ease of access, st cadocs and the like are not filled with people because of cannabis use, they might however be using the drug but its not attributable as the cause of mental ill health alone or in any high facoring. It would be a class a if that were the case.if all the alcoholics were infact addicted to cannabis rather than drink the world would be a better place, they and society would still have a problem but not as severe or individually and familiarly devastating. the point was not weather cannabis is good, of course its not, some just feel that its no way near as harmful as legal drugs like alcohol and therfore locking people up for it is not only harmfull to the economy and their personal lives but is hypocrisy of the highest order. cantbelieveitsnotbetter
  • Score: 2

6:34pm Thu 27 Feb 14

whatintheworld says...

Dai Rear wrote:
Psychosis and heavy cannabis use are not related. Have it your way. There is, after all, probably only one bullet in the chamber of the revolver pointing at your head.
risk of a psychotic episode is only increased if someone has a pre-existing genetic vulnerability.

http://www.rcpsych.a
c.uk/healthadvice/pr
oblemsdisorders/cann
abis.aspx
http://www.nhs.uk/Li
vewell/drugs/Pages/C
annabisdangers.aspx

in other words - if you've got no history of mental health problems in your family, you're fine.

next one dai?
[quote][p][bold]Dai Rear[/bold] wrote: Psychosis and heavy cannabis use are not related. Have it your way. There is, after all, probably only one bullet in the chamber of the revolver pointing at your head.[/p][/quote]risk of a psychotic episode is only increased if someone has a pre-existing genetic vulnerability. http://www.rcpsych.a c.uk/healthadvice/pr oblemsdisorders/cann abis.aspx http://www.nhs.uk/Li vewell/drugs/Pages/C annabisdangers.aspx in other words - if you've got no history of mental health problems in your family, you're fine. next one dai? whatintheworld
  • Score: 0

7:45pm Thu 27 Feb 14

GardenVarietyMushroom says...

mikewelsh wrote:
GardenVarietyMushroo

m
wrote:
mikewelsh wrote:
GardenVarietyMushroo



m
wrote:
Okay, you three need to remember that it costs anywhere from around £25,000-£35,000 to keep a prisoner in jail for a year. You might be happy for the judge to waste taxpayer's money on such a (non) crime like this - but I'd rather that money got spent on more important things myself.

In addition, there's absolutely no justification, moral or otherwise, for the illegality of this particular plant, and it's about time the law was changed to reflect that.
Fact, it damages the brain. St Cadocs is full of young weed smokers, shortage of beds as there's that many, how much does it cost the Nhs? maybe cheaper to imprison the dealers and rid our streets of the misery the dealers are creating. Simple, If its not there They cant take it. Fact is, This guy admitted to buying the equipment for produceing, selling and using. Pre.meditated crime, should be jail.
Damages the brain? So does boxing - let's lock all the boxers up eh? Sorry to be so trite, but so what? There are only about a bazillion other things in daily and common use in our lives that 'damage the brain'. And if St. Cadoc's is full of such people (is that fact or just supposition?) then for every one person in there, I'd imagine there are possibly hundreds, or thousands, or more that aren't. And those that are in there will not be in there solely because they're cannabis users. There are complex phsycological, physiological and sociological factors that contribute to the mental health of these poor unfortunates. Blaming it all on cannabis consumption is just pathetic.
I have worked at st cadocs as recent as 6months ago, if you ever go to the wards, they will tell you there is an increase in section 2 and 3's due to the strength of the skunk they smoke, we are not dealing with the mild 60's stuff anymore, you can even ask at central police station they will tell you the cells hold them regulary as there arnt enough beds at st cadocs. Youngters are at big risk, due to the brain chemistry... Using Boxers for brain damage is a poor arguement.
Sounds suspiciously like anecdotes and propaganda to me. I suspect even if there is, as you say, an increase, then it's nowhere near as severe as you're implying.

How is using boxers a poor argument? You said cannabis damages the brain. I was just pointing out something else that also damages the brain, that some people choose to do of their own accord, knowing full well the risks. Just so happens though that boxing is legal.
[quote][p][bold]mikewelsh[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]GardenVarietyMushroo m[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mikewelsh[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]GardenVarietyMushroo m[/bold] wrote: Okay, you three need to remember that it costs anywhere from around £25,000-£35,000 to keep a prisoner in jail for a year. You might be happy for the judge to waste taxpayer's money on such a (non) crime like this - but I'd rather that money got spent on more important things myself. In addition, there's absolutely no justification, moral or otherwise, for the illegality of this particular plant, and it's about time the law was changed to reflect that.[/p][/quote]Fact, it damages the brain. St Cadocs is full of young weed smokers, shortage of beds as there's that many, how much does it cost the Nhs? maybe cheaper to imprison the dealers and rid our streets of the misery the dealers are creating. Simple, If its not there They cant take it. Fact is, This guy admitted to buying the equipment for produceing, selling and using. Pre.meditated crime, should be jail.[/p][/quote]Damages the brain? So does boxing - let's lock all the boxers up eh? Sorry to be so trite, but so what? There are only about a bazillion other things in daily and common use in our lives that 'damage the brain'. And if St. Cadoc's is full of such people (is that fact or just supposition?) then for every one person in there, I'd imagine there are possibly hundreds, or thousands, or more that aren't. And those that are in there will not be in there solely because they're cannabis users. There are complex phsycological, physiological and sociological factors that contribute to the mental health of these poor unfortunates. Blaming it all on cannabis consumption is just pathetic.[/p][/quote]I have worked at st cadocs as recent as 6months ago, if you ever go to the wards, they will tell you there is an increase in section 2 and 3's due to the strength of the skunk they smoke, we are not dealing with the mild 60's stuff anymore, you can even ask at central police station they will tell you the cells hold them regulary as there arnt enough beds at st cadocs. Youngters are at big risk, due to the brain chemistry... Using Boxers for brain damage is a poor arguement.[/p][/quote]Sounds suspiciously like anecdotes and propaganda to me. I suspect even if there is, as you say, an increase, then it's nowhere near as severe as you're implying. How is using boxers a poor argument? You said cannabis damages the brain. I was just pointing out something else that also damages the brain, that some people choose to do of their own accord, knowing full well the risks. Just so happens though that boxing is legal. GardenVarietyMushroom
  • Score: -3

7:54pm Thu 27 Feb 14

NewportianGirl says...

GardenVarietyMushroo
m
wrote:
Okay, you three need to remember that it costs anywhere from around £25,000-£35,000 to keep a prisoner in jail for a year. You might be happy for the judge to waste taxpayer's money on such a (non) crime like this - but I'd rather that money got spent on more important things myself.

In addition, there's absolutely no justification, moral or otherwise, for the illegality of this particular plant, and it's about time the law was changed to reflect that.
How about the tax payers money paying for this wasters legal aid or the time taken by Police investigating this crime in order to get him to court? Yeah why not just let all the minor crimes off..... Next time you get punched in the face or your home is broken into don't bother with the Police, let them just deal with the murderers..... Until the law is changed, it's illegal and there should be consequences! An example needs to be made... And FYI you can die from cannabis toxins so think that's pretty important to tackle don't you?
[quote][p][bold]GardenVarietyMushroo m[/bold] wrote: Okay, you three need to remember that it costs anywhere from around £25,000-£35,000 to keep a prisoner in jail for a year. You might be happy for the judge to waste taxpayer's money on such a (non) crime like this - but I'd rather that money got spent on more important things myself. In addition, there's absolutely no justification, moral or otherwise, for the illegality of this particular plant, and it's about time the law was changed to reflect that.[/p][/quote]How about the tax payers money paying for this wasters legal aid or the time taken by Police investigating this crime in order to get him to court? Yeah why not just let all the minor crimes off..... Next time you get punched in the face or your home is broken into don't bother with the Police, let them just deal with the murderers..... Until the law is changed, it's illegal and there should be consequences! An example needs to be made... And FYI you can die from cannabis toxins so think that's pretty important to tackle don't you? NewportianGirl
  • Score: 2

8:30pm Thu 27 Feb 14

whatintheworld says...

NewportianGirl wrote:
GardenVarietyMushroo

m
wrote:
Okay, you three need to remember that it costs anywhere from around £25,000-£35,000 to keep a prisoner in jail for a year. You might be happy for the judge to waste taxpayer's money on such a (non) crime like this - but I'd rather that money got spent on more important things myself.

In addition, there's absolutely no justification, moral or otherwise, for the illegality of this particular plant, and it's about time the law was changed to reflect that.
How about the tax payers money paying for this wasters legal aid or the time taken by Police investigating this crime in order to get him to court? Yeah why not just let all the minor crimes off..... Next time you get punched in the face or your home is broken into don't bother with the Police, let them just deal with the murderers..... Until the law is changed, it's illegal and there should be consequences! An example needs to be made... And FYI you can die from cannabis toxins so think that's pretty important to tackle don't you?
assualt and robbery are crimes against other people. of course they should be investigated etc.

smoking cannabis is a personal choice (same as smoking tobacco) that can effect noone. its a waste of police time and resource.

the toxins you refer to are found in cannabis SMOKE - http://www.scienceda
ily.com/releases/200
7/12/071217110328.ht
m

as im sure you are aware, you can consume cannabis without smoking it.

btw, could people include references for their wild claims?
[quote][p][bold]NewportianGirl[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]GardenVarietyMushroo m[/bold] wrote: Okay, you three need to remember that it costs anywhere from around £25,000-£35,000 to keep a prisoner in jail for a year. You might be happy for the judge to waste taxpayer's money on such a (non) crime like this - but I'd rather that money got spent on more important things myself. In addition, there's absolutely no justification, moral or otherwise, for the illegality of this particular plant, and it's about time the law was changed to reflect that.[/p][/quote]How about the tax payers money paying for this wasters legal aid or the time taken by Police investigating this crime in order to get him to court? Yeah why not just let all the minor crimes off..... Next time you get punched in the face or your home is broken into don't bother with the Police, let them just deal with the murderers..... Until the law is changed, it's illegal and there should be consequences! An example needs to be made... And FYI you can die from cannabis toxins so think that's pretty important to tackle don't you?[/p][/quote]assualt and robbery are crimes against other people. of course they should be investigated etc. smoking cannabis is a personal choice (same as smoking tobacco) that can effect noone. its a waste of police time and resource. the toxins you refer to are found in cannabis SMOKE - http://www.scienceda ily.com/releases/200 7/12/071217110328.ht m as im sure you are aware, you can consume cannabis without smoking it. btw, could people include references for their wild claims? whatintheworld
  • Score: -1

8:44pm Thu 27 Feb 14

cantbelieveitsnotbetter says...

NewportianGirl wrote:
GardenVarietyMushroo

m
wrote:
Okay, you three need to remember that it costs anywhere from around £25,000-£35,000 to keep a prisoner in jail for a year. You might be happy for the judge to waste taxpayer's money on such a (non) crime like this - but I'd rather that money got spent on more important things myself.

In addition, there's absolutely no justification, moral or otherwise, for the illegality of this particular plant, and it's about time the law was changed to reflect that.
How about the tax payers money paying for this wasters legal aid or the time taken by Police investigating this crime in order to get him to court? Yeah why not just let all the minor crimes off..... Next time you get punched in the face or your home is broken into don't bother with the Police, let them just deal with the murderers..... Until the law is changed, it's illegal and there should be consequences! An example needs to be made... And FYI you can die from cannabis toxins so think that's pretty important to tackle don't you?
●find me more than two cases of death caused by cannabis
●burglary and abh a "minor crime"? really?
●waste of resources, tax, police etc is exactly what a few on here are complaining about- change in the law is the answer
● not sure about your legal aid argument- what happened to equality and innocent till proven guilty?
[quote][p][bold]NewportianGirl[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]GardenVarietyMushroo m[/bold] wrote: Okay, you three need to remember that it costs anywhere from around £25,000-£35,000 to keep a prisoner in jail for a year. You might be happy for the judge to waste taxpayer's money on such a (non) crime like this - but I'd rather that money got spent on more important things myself. In addition, there's absolutely no justification, moral or otherwise, for the illegality of this particular plant, and it's about time the law was changed to reflect that.[/p][/quote]How about the tax payers money paying for this wasters legal aid or the time taken by Police investigating this crime in order to get him to court? Yeah why not just let all the minor crimes off..... Next time you get punched in the face or your home is broken into don't bother with the Police, let them just deal with the murderers..... Until the law is changed, it's illegal and there should be consequences! An example needs to be made... And FYI you can die from cannabis toxins so think that's pretty important to tackle don't you?[/p][/quote]●find me more than two cases of death caused by cannabis ●burglary and abh a "minor crime"? really? ●waste of resources, tax, police etc is exactly what a few on here are complaining about- change in the law is the answer ● not sure about your legal aid argument- what happened to equality and innocent till proven guilty? cantbelieveitsnotbetter
  • Score: 0

8:46pm Thu 27 Feb 14

GardenVarietyMushroom says...

NewportianGirl wrote:
GardenVarietyMushroo

m
wrote:
Okay, you three need to remember that it costs anywhere from around £25,000-£35,000 to keep a prisoner in jail for a year. You might be happy for the judge to waste taxpayer's money on such a (non) crime like this - but I'd rather that money got spent on more important things myself.

In addition, there's absolutely no justification, moral or otherwise, for the illegality of this particular plant, and it's about time the law was changed to reflect that.
How about the tax payers money paying for this wasters legal aid or the time taken by Police investigating this crime in order to get him to court? Yeah why not just let all the minor crimes off..... Next time you get punched in the face or your home is broken into don't bother with the Police, let them just deal with the murderers..... Until the law is changed, it's illegal and there should be consequences! An example needs to be made... And FYI you can die from cannabis toxins so think that's pretty important to tackle don't you?
Oh I agree with you. It's a complete waste of money. All the more reason, surely, to legalise something that's much less harmfull than a lot of things we accept as perfectly normal. For me, it's all about perspective, consistency and not being a hypocrite.

As for getting punched or burgled - not really sure what relevence that has to the subject but I'm sure that the police could be spending their time far more productively if they weren't chasing these people.

It is illegal - but everyone breaks the law when it suits them. Even if it's just a little bit. The fact remains however that the illegality of cannabis is just not stopping people from doing it is it?

Sorry, I had to Lol a bit at 'you can die from cannabis toxins' - where on earth did you drag that little gem up from? The fact is that no one has EVER died of an overdose, and the amounts you'd have to consume to do so is astronomical. And, FYI, you can die a hell of a lot easier from water toxicity - so by your rationale we should make water illegal eh?
[quote][p][bold]NewportianGirl[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]GardenVarietyMushroo m[/bold] wrote: Okay, you three need to remember that it costs anywhere from around £25,000-£35,000 to keep a prisoner in jail for a year. You might be happy for the judge to waste taxpayer's money on such a (non) crime like this - but I'd rather that money got spent on more important things myself. In addition, there's absolutely no justification, moral or otherwise, for the illegality of this particular plant, and it's about time the law was changed to reflect that.[/p][/quote]How about the tax payers money paying for this wasters legal aid or the time taken by Police investigating this crime in order to get him to court? Yeah why not just let all the minor crimes off..... Next time you get punched in the face or your home is broken into don't bother with the Police, let them just deal with the murderers..... Until the law is changed, it's illegal and there should be consequences! An example needs to be made... And FYI you can die from cannabis toxins so think that's pretty important to tackle don't you?[/p][/quote]Oh I agree with you. It's a complete waste of money. All the more reason, surely, to legalise something that's much less harmfull than a lot of things we accept as perfectly normal. For me, it's all about perspective, consistency and not being a hypocrite. As for getting punched or burgled - not really sure what relevence that has to the subject but I'm sure that the police could be spending their time far more productively if they weren't chasing these people. It is illegal - but everyone breaks the law when it suits them. Even if it's just a little bit. The fact remains however that the illegality of cannabis is just not stopping people from doing it is it? Sorry, I had to Lol a bit at 'you can die from cannabis toxins' - where on earth did you drag that little gem up from? The fact is that no one has EVER died of an overdose, and the amounts you'd have to consume to do so is astronomical. And, FYI, you can die a hell of a lot easier from water toxicity - so by your rationale we should make water illegal eh? GardenVarietyMushroom
  • Score: -2

8:54pm Thu 27 Feb 14

NewportianGirl says...

Cannabis is getting stronger and more dangerous, it's a fact it contributes to mental health.. I agree there are more dangerous drugs out there including alcohol which is legal, but that doesn't mean legalising another one makes it ok? You all moan when the police don't do their job and yet when they try and get a drug dealer avoiding paying taxes and very likely on benefits while making more money than those that work, you defend him?

And you wonder why our society is how it is...
Cannabis is getting stronger and more dangerous, it's a fact it contributes to mental health.. I agree there are more dangerous drugs out there including alcohol which is legal, but that doesn't mean legalising another one makes it ok? You all moan when the police don't do their job and yet when they try and get a drug dealer avoiding paying taxes and very likely on benefits while making more money than those that work, you defend him? And you wonder why our society is how it is... NewportianGirl
  • Score: 1

9:04pm Thu 27 Feb 14

whatintheworld says...

NewportianGirl wrote:
Cannabis is getting stronger and more dangerous, it's a fact it contributes to mental health.. I agree there are more dangerous drugs out there including alcohol which is legal, but that doesn't mean legalising another one makes it ok? You all moan when the police don't do their job and yet when they try and get a drug dealer avoiding paying taxes and very likely on benefits while making more money than those that work, you defend him?

And you wonder why our society is how it is...
cannabis is getting stronger, but how exactly is it getting more dangerous?

cannabis can cause psychotic episodes, but only for those with a pre-disposition to suffering them already.

we have to let people decide whether they want to exasperate their own medical conditions. the same way its not ilegal for a lung cancer sufferer to buy cigarettes.
[quote][p][bold]NewportianGirl[/bold] wrote: Cannabis is getting stronger and more dangerous, it's a fact it contributes to mental health.. I agree there are more dangerous drugs out there including alcohol which is legal, but that doesn't mean legalising another one makes it ok? You all moan when the police don't do their job and yet when they try and get a drug dealer avoiding paying taxes and very likely on benefits while making more money than those that work, you defend him? And you wonder why our society is how it is...[/p][/quote]cannabis is getting stronger, but how exactly is it getting more dangerous? cannabis can cause psychotic episodes, but only for those with a pre-disposition to suffering them already. we have to let people decide whether they want to exasperate their own medical conditions. the same way its not ilegal for a lung cancer sufferer to buy cigarettes. whatintheworld
  • Score: -2

9:16pm Thu 27 Feb 14

GardenVarietyMushroom says...

NewportianGirl wrote:
Cannabis is getting stronger and more dangerous, it's a fact it contributes to mental health.. I agree there are more dangerous drugs out there including alcohol which is legal, but that doesn't mean legalising another one makes it ok? You all moan when the police don't do their job and yet when they try and get a drug dealer avoiding paying taxes and very likely on benefits while making more money than those that work, you defend him?

And you wonder why our society is how it is...
There may well be an argument against more potent strains of the drug - all the more reason IMO to legalise and regulate.

And you're right - it does contribute to mental health. Some it affects adversely, many others find it beneficial to their mental health.

I wasn't talking about just drugs, there's all sorts of things we accept that are damaging to your health. Boxing, like I said, or driving a car, crossing the street, climbing a tree, eating too much junk food, food additives, sugar, air pollution, industrial accidents... etc...etc...ad infinitum - the list really is endless.

Regarding your argument about benefits - if cannabis were legalised, many people could grow the stuff in their own homes which would reduce the need for people to claim benefits. Got a spare room? No need for a bedroom tax, just get a grow tent in there... you could even tax it - win win far as I'm concerned.
[quote][p][bold]NewportianGirl[/bold] wrote: Cannabis is getting stronger and more dangerous, it's a fact it contributes to mental health.. I agree there are more dangerous drugs out there including alcohol which is legal, but that doesn't mean legalising another one makes it ok? You all moan when the police don't do their job and yet when they try and get a drug dealer avoiding paying taxes and very likely on benefits while making more money than those that work, you defend him? And you wonder why our society is how it is...[/p][/quote]There may well be an argument against more potent strains of the drug - all the more reason IMO to legalise and regulate. And you're right - it does contribute to mental health. Some it affects adversely, many others find it beneficial to their mental health. I wasn't talking about just drugs, there's all sorts of things we accept that are damaging to your health. Boxing, like I said, or driving a car, crossing the street, climbing a tree, eating too much junk food, food additives, sugar, air pollution, industrial accidents... etc...etc...ad infinitum - the list really is endless. Regarding your argument about benefits - if cannabis were legalised, many people could grow the stuff in their own homes which would reduce the need for people to claim benefits. Got a spare room? No need for a bedroom tax, just get a grow tent in there... you could even tax it - win win far as I'm concerned. GardenVarietyMushroom
  • Score: -1

11:44pm Thu 27 Feb 14

NewportianGirl says...

GardenVarietyMushroo
m
wrote:
NewportianGirl wrote:
Cannabis is getting stronger and more dangerous, it's a fact it contributes to mental health.. I agree there are more dangerous drugs out there including alcohol which is legal, but that doesn't mean legalising another one makes it ok? You all moan when the police don't do their job and yet when they try and get a drug dealer avoiding paying taxes and very likely on benefits while making more money than those that work, you defend him?

And you wonder why our society is how it is...
There may well be an argument against more potent strains of the drug - all the more reason IMO to legalise and regulate.

And you're right - it does contribute to mental health. Some it affects adversely, many others find it beneficial to their mental health.

I wasn't talking about just drugs, there's all sorts of things we accept that are damaging to your health. Boxing, like I said, or driving a car, crossing the street, climbing a tree, eating too much junk food, food additives, sugar, air pollution, industrial accidents... etc...etc...ad infinitum - the list really is endless.

Regarding your argument about benefits - if cannabis were legalised, many people could grow the stuff in their own homes which would reduce the need for people to claim benefits. Got a spare room? No need for a bedroom tax, just get a grow tent in there... you could even tax it - win win far as I'm concerned.
One minute you talk about regulating it, the next you argue that council tenants can have a bigger house than they need just to allow them to grow cannabis in the spare room? How exactly is that going to be regulated exactly?
[quote][p][bold]GardenVarietyMushroo m[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]NewportianGirl[/bold] wrote: Cannabis is getting stronger and more dangerous, it's a fact it contributes to mental health.. I agree there are more dangerous drugs out there including alcohol which is legal, but that doesn't mean legalising another one makes it ok? You all moan when the police don't do their job and yet when they try and get a drug dealer avoiding paying taxes and very likely on benefits while making more money than those that work, you defend him? And you wonder why our society is how it is...[/p][/quote]There may well be an argument against more potent strains of the drug - all the more reason IMO to legalise and regulate. And you're right - it does contribute to mental health. Some it affects adversely, many others find it beneficial to their mental health. I wasn't talking about just drugs, there's all sorts of things we accept that are damaging to your health. Boxing, like I said, or driving a car, crossing the street, climbing a tree, eating too much junk food, food additives, sugar, air pollution, industrial accidents... etc...etc...ad infinitum - the list really is endless. Regarding your argument about benefits - if cannabis were legalised, many people could grow the stuff in their own homes which would reduce the need for people to claim benefits. Got a spare room? No need for a bedroom tax, just get a grow tent in there... you could even tax it - win win far as I'm concerned.[/p][/quote]One minute you talk about regulating it, the next you argue that council tenants can have a bigger house than they need just to allow them to grow cannabis in the spare room? How exactly is that going to be regulated exactly? NewportianGirl
  • Score: 3

6:50am Fri 28 Feb 14

GardenVarietyMushroom says...

Well dagnammit - you got me. I tried to sneak more than one idea in at a time but you were just too clever for me....
Well dagnammit - you got me. I tried to sneak more than one idea in at a time but you were just too clever for me.... GardenVarietyMushroom
  • Score: 1

8:03am Fri 28 Feb 14

Dai Rear says...

whatintheworld wrote:
Dai Rear wrote:
Psychosis and heavy cannabis use are not related. Have it your way. There is, after all, probably only one bullet in the chamber of the revolver pointing at your head.
risk of a psychotic episode is only increased if someone has a pre-existing genetic vulnerability.

http://www.rcpsych.a

c.uk/healthadvice/pr

oblemsdisorders/cann

abis.aspx
http://www.nhs.uk/Li

vewell/drugs/Pages/C

annabisdangers.aspx

in other words - if you've got no history of mental health problems in your family, you're fine.

next one dai?
"if you've got no history of mental health problems in your family, you're fine." I can't see the article so I don't know the provenance and I don't know how wide the study was but since most families have members with mental health problems, depression in particular being extremely common and nearly every one of us having minor OCD traits, does that help your case? Would you expect people to take this into account before commencing consumption of the drug? What would be your response to the proportion of the population whose paternity is uncertain?My case is that we don't know enough for the State to get gung ho about another intoxicant and that we've enough problems already with intoxicants to start adding one. Who'd have known ketamine rotted your bladder till nitwits started bathing in the stuff? Perhaps the US reason for the ban in the 20's, its effect on the African American element, was unfortunate but we have it now and there's no coherent reason to change.
[quote][p][bold]whatintheworld[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dai Rear[/bold] wrote: Psychosis and heavy cannabis use are not related. Have it your way. There is, after all, probably only one bullet in the chamber of the revolver pointing at your head.[/p][/quote]risk of a psychotic episode is only increased if someone has a pre-existing genetic vulnerability. http://www.rcpsych.a c.uk/healthadvice/pr oblemsdisorders/cann abis.aspx http://www.nhs.uk/Li vewell/drugs/Pages/C annabisdangers.aspx in other words - if you've got no history of mental health problems in your family, you're fine. next one dai?[/p][/quote]"if you've got no history of mental health problems in your family, you're fine." I can't see the article so I don't know the provenance and I don't know how wide the study was but since most families have members with mental health problems, depression in particular being extremely common and nearly every one of us having minor OCD traits, does that help your case? Would you expect people to take this into account before commencing consumption of the drug? What would be your response to the proportion of the population whose paternity is uncertain?My case is that we don't know enough for the State to get gung ho about another intoxicant and that we've enough problems already with intoxicants to start adding one. Who'd have known ketamine rotted your bladder till nitwits started bathing in the stuff? Perhaps the US reason for the ban in the 20's, its effect on the African American element, was unfortunate but we have it now and there's no coherent reason to change. Dai Rear
  • Score: 2

8:25am Fri 28 Feb 14

Dai Rear says...

"if cannabis were legalised, many people could grow the stuff in their own homes which would reduce the need for people to claim benefits"
I love it. Dolees claim welfare in order to buy cannabis. You're a hard man. Even I wouldn't say that and I've considerably less time for welfarism than IDS.
"if cannabis were legalised, many people could grow the stuff in their own homes which would reduce the need for people to claim benefits" I love it. Dolees claim welfare in order to buy cannabis. You're a hard man. Even I wouldn't say that and I've considerably less time for welfarism than IDS. Dai Rear
  • Score: 3

9:21am Fri 28 Feb 14

GardenVarietyMushroom says...

Dai Rear wrote:
"if cannabis were legalised, many people could grow the stuff in their own homes which would reduce the need for people to claim benefits"
I love it. Dolees claim welfare in order to buy cannabis. You're a hard man. Even I wouldn't say that and I've considerably less time for welfarism than IDS.
No, I'm discussing the possibility of a cottage industry, if you will, where people who are currently unable to support themselves, supply an obvious demand and maybe reduce the amount of state handouts they need.
[quote][p][bold]Dai Rear[/bold] wrote: "if cannabis were legalised, many people could grow the stuff in their own homes which would reduce the need for people to claim benefits" I love it. Dolees claim welfare in order to buy cannabis. You're a hard man. Even I wouldn't say that and I've considerably less time for welfarism than IDS.[/p][/quote]No, I'm discussing the possibility of a cottage industry, if you will, where people who are currently unable to support themselves, supply an obvious demand and maybe reduce the amount of state handouts they need. GardenVarietyMushroom
  • Score: -3

9:37am Fri 28 Feb 14

Dai Rear says...

GardenVarietyMushroo
m
wrote:
Dai Rear wrote:
"if cannabis were legalised, many people could grow the stuff in their own homes which would reduce the need for people to claim benefits"
I love it. Dolees claim welfare in order to buy cannabis. You're a hard man. Even I wouldn't say that and I've considerably less time for welfarism than IDS.
No, I'm discussing the possibility of a cottage industry, if you will, where people who are currently unable to support themselves, supply an obvious demand and maybe reduce the amount of state handouts they need.
Don't think the State will buy that one. Otherwise believe me, we home brewers, producing beer as good as the big breweries, would have been doing this for the last 5 decades since good malt and a variety of hops were widely available. Plus our product requires no greater energy input than a Sunday roast whilst if everyone started growing high THC cannabis it'd take a bit more than the collection of useless windmills we've got to keep the lights on.
[quote][p][bold]GardenVarietyMushroo m[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dai Rear[/bold] wrote: "if cannabis were legalised, many people could grow the stuff in their own homes which would reduce the need for people to claim benefits" I love it. Dolees claim welfare in order to buy cannabis. You're a hard man. Even I wouldn't say that and I've considerably less time for welfarism than IDS.[/p][/quote]No, I'm discussing the possibility of a cottage industry, if you will, where people who are currently unable to support themselves, supply an obvious demand and maybe reduce the amount of state handouts they need.[/p][/quote]Don't think the State will buy that one. Otherwise believe me, we home brewers, producing beer as good as the big breweries, would have been doing this for the last 5 decades since good malt and a variety of hops were widely available. Plus our product requires no greater energy input than a Sunday roast whilst if everyone started growing high THC cannabis it'd take a bit more than the collection of useless windmills we've got to keep the lights on. Dai Rear
  • Score: 4

10:57am Fri 28 Feb 14

whatintheworld says...

Dai Rear wrote:
whatintheworld wrote:
Dai Rear wrote: Psychosis and heavy cannabis use are not related. Have it your way. There is, after all, probably only one bullet in the chamber of the revolver pointing at your head.
risk of a psychotic episode is only increased if someone has a pre-existing genetic vulnerability. http://www.rcpsych.a c.uk/healthadvice/pr oblemsdisorders/cann abis.aspx http://www.nhs.uk/Li vewell/drugs/Pages/C annabisdangers.aspx in other words - if you've got no history of mental health problems in your family, you're fine. next one dai?
"if you've got no history of mental health problems in your family, you're fine." I can't see the article so I don't know the provenance and I don't know how wide the study was but since most families have members with mental health problems, depression in particular being extremely common and nearly every one of us having minor OCD traits, does that help your case? Would you expect people to take this into account before commencing consumption of the drug? What would be your response to the proportion of the population whose paternity is uncertain?My case is that we don't know enough for the State to get gung ho about another intoxicant and that we've enough problems already with intoxicants to start adding one. Who'd have known ketamine rotted your bladder till nitwits started bathing in the stuff? Perhaps the US reason for the ban in the 20's, its effect on the African American element, was unfortunate but we have it now and there's no coherent reason to change.
you mentioned you cant see the articles. they are from a royal college and the nhs. take it from me, theyre reliable.

you make an excellent point regarding ketamine. and the fact a lot of people arent going to know their family history on mental health.

but id argue that so long as you make people aware of the risks to their health, they should be allowed to use cannabis. same way we have giant warnings on the front of cigarette packaging.

btw, "minor OCD traits" is not a medical condition. even if it was, cannabis use would not have any adverse effects to someone suffering from it. a family history of major conditions such as schizophrenia is where risk of psychosis is increased.

this has been an interesting debate. i (perhaps naively) hope ive been able to quash a few mis-truths you held as fact.
[quote][p][bold]Dai Rear[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]whatintheworld[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dai Rear[/bold] wrote: Psychosis and heavy cannabis use are not related. Have it your way. There is, after all, probably only one bullet in the chamber of the revolver pointing at your head.[/p][/quote]risk of a psychotic episode is only increased if someone has a pre-existing genetic vulnerability. http://www.rcpsych.a c.uk/healthadvice/pr oblemsdisorders/cann abis.aspx http://www.nhs.uk/Li vewell/drugs/Pages/C annabisdangers.aspx in other words - if you've got no history of mental health problems in your family, you're fine. next one dai?[/p][/quote]"if you've got no history of mental health problems in your family, you're fine." I can't see the article so I don't know the provenance and I don't know how wide the study was but since most families have members with mental health problems, depression in particular being extremely common and nearly every one of us having minor OCD traits, does that help your case? Would you expect people to take this into account before commencing consumption of the drug? What would be your response to the proportion of the population whose paternity is uncertain?My case is that we don't know enough for the State to get gung ho about another intoxicant and that we've enough problems already with intoxicants to start adding one. Who'd have known ketamine rotted your bladder till nitwits started bathing in the stuff? Perhaps the US reason for the ban in the 20's, its effect on the African American element, was unfortunate but we have it now and there's no coherent reason to change.[/p][/quote]you mentioned you cant see the articles. they are from a royal college and the nhs. take it from me, theyre reliable. you make an excellent point regarding ketamine. and the fact a lot of people arent going to know their family history on mental health. but id argue that so long as you make people aware of the risks to their health, they should be allowed to use cannabis. same way we have giant warnings on the front of cigarette packaging. btw, "minor OCD traits" is not a medical condition. even if it was, cannabis use would not have any adverse effects to someone suffering from it. a family history of major conditions such as schizophrenia is where risk of psychosis is increased. this has been an interesting debate. i (perhaps naively) hope ive been able to quash a few mis-truths you held as fact. whatintheworld
  • Score: -3

6:39pm Fri 28 Feb 14

NewportianGirl says...

Check it out, the same judge as above "A HEROIN dealer who planned to sell the class A drug to buy a headstone for his deceased father was spared jail"........ Judge Robert Craven has a lot to answer for in Newport..... Or should heroin also be legalised????
Check it out, the same judge as above "A HEROIN dealer who planned to sell the class A drug to buy a headstone for his deceased father was spared jail"........ Judge Robert Craven has a lot to answer for in Newport..... Or should heroin also be legalised???? NewportianGirl
  • Score: 1

8:32pm Fri 28 Feb 14

GardenVarietyMushroom says...

NewportianGirl wrote:
Check it out, the same judge as above "A HEROIN dealer who planned to sell the class A drug to buy a headstone for his deceased father was spared jail"........ Judge Robert Craven has a lot to answer for in Newport..... Or should heroin also be legalised????
Nope, agree with you there. Heroin is highly addictive and turns a lot of addicts into junkie scumbags.
[quote][p][bold]NewportianGirl[/bold] wrote: Check it out, the same judge as above "A HEROIN dealer who planned to sell the class A drug to buy a headstone for his deceased father was spared jail"........ Judge Robert Craven has a lot to answer for in Newport..... Or should heroin also be legalised????[/p][/quote]Nope, agree with you there. Heroin is highly addictive and turns a lot of addicts into junkie scumbags. GardenVarietyMushroom
  • Score: -4

10:55pm Fri 28 Feb 14

cantbelieveitsnotbetter says...

GardenVarietyMushroo
m
wrote:
NewportianGirl wrote:
Check it out, the same judge as above "A HEROIN dealer who planned to sell the class A drug to buy a headstone for his deceased father was spared jail"........ Judge Robert Craven has a lot to answer for in Newport..... Or should heroin also be legalised????
Nope, agree with you there. Heroin is highly addictive and turns a lot of addicts into junkie scumbags.
" Nope, agree with you there. Heroin is highly addictive and turns a lot of addicts into junkie scumbags". comedic genius, well said
[quote][p][bold]GardenVarietyMushroo m[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]NewportianGirl[/bold] wrote: Check it out, the same judge as above "A HEROIN dealer who planned to sell the class A drug to buy a headstone for his deceased father was spared jail"........ Judge Robert Craven has a lot to answer for in Newport..... Or should heroin also be legalised????[/p][/quote]Nope, agree with you there. Heroin is highly addictive and turns a lot of addicts into junkie scumbags.[/p][/quote]" Nope, agree with you there. Heroin is highly addictive and turns a lot of addicts into junkie scumbags". comedic genius, well said cantbelieveitsnotbetter
  • Score: 0

9:44pm Tue 4 Mar 14

BigAng says...

There is the argument that using cannabis (especially for those with a predisposition to a psychiatric illness, mainly schitzoprehina) has a detrimental impact on levels of motivation & that it could cause elements of paranoia. Having worked with young people for many years I've seen the impact that cannabis use can have of an individuals ability to 'function' in society. These issues have mainly been around the negative impacts on relationships in general with family & friends due to the negative behaviours that can often come with the effects of cannabis use. Structure is often lost in a young persons life, sometimes due to low levels of motivation & self esteem & often cannabis use can lead to a blunting of emotions & a general apathetic response to circumstances/situat
ions. Many who I've supported have disengaged from education & have become involved in prolific offending to fund their cannabis use. Sadly, I have also come in to contact with young people who have become floridly psychotic & have then required support from the Child & Adolescent MH & even ended up ion psychiatric intensive care units. Many adults who I have also worked with who have chronic substance misuse issues have started out using a "bit of weed" & have moved on to then use opiates etc. In fact, I would say that 90% of heroin users who I have supported have told me that they started off using weed, then used amphetamines & then moved on to smoking injecting heroin & crack. I genuinely appreciate that my observations are not supported by clinical based evidence or findings from NICE etc, but they are based on first hand experience of being a frontline worker day in & day out & seeing the chaos that cannabis use can often cause....
There is the argument that using cannabis (especially for those with a predisposition to a psychiatric illness, mainly schitzoprehina) has a detrimental impact on levels of motivation & that it could cause elements of paranoia. Having worked with young people for many years I've seen the impact that cannabis use can have of an individuals ability to 'function' in society. These issues have mainly been around the negative impacts on relationships in general with family & friends due to the negative behaviours that can often come with the effects of cannabis use. Structure is often lost in a young persons life, sometimes due to low levels of motivation & self esteem & often cannabis use can lead to a blunting of emotions & a general apathetic response to circumstances/situat ions. Many who I've supported have disengaged from education & have become involved in prolific offending to fund their cannabis use. Sadly, I have also come in to contact with young people who have become floridly psychotic & have then required support from the Child & Adolescent MH & even ended up ion psychiatric intensive care units. Many adults who I have also worked with who have chronic substance misuse issues have started out using a "bit of weed" & have moved on to then use opiates etc. In fact, I would say that 90% of heroin users who I have supported have told me that they started off using weed, then used amphetamines & then moved on to smoking injecting heroin & crack. I genuinely appreciate that my observations are not supported by clinical based evidence or findings from NICE etc, but they are based on first hand experience of being a frontline worker day in & day out & seeing the chaos that cannabis use can often cause.... BigAng
  • Score: 5

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