Bank’s bid to drop Welsh language scheme ‘unlawful’

First published in News

THE High Court has ruled in favour of the Welsh language commissioner after a state-owned savings bank scrapped its Welsh language policy.

In a ruling published online yesterday from a hearing in February, Mr Justice Hickinbottom and His Honour Judge Milwyn Jarman QC, sitting as a judge of the High Court, ruled savings firm NS&I’s decision to revoke its Welsh language scheme in April last year was unlawful.

The bank has more than £100 billion invested by over 25 million customers, with 1.5 million living in Wales.

NS&I adopted a Welsh language scheme in 1998, which was replaced in July 2007, and said the bank would support the use of Welsh where possible help the public in Wales use Welsh as part of their day-to-day lives.

But after 14 years, NS&I had just 107 customers who contacted it in Welsh, representing 0.007 per cent of the 1,549,577 Welsh customers, and 0.06 per cent of Welsh deposits.

“At an annual cost of £899 per Welsh speaking NS&I customer, or an additional cost of 3.78 per cent for every pound of their deposits, our Welsh language scheme is not an effective use of public funds,” its chief executive, Jane Platt, wrote to the Welsh language commissioner in February, last year.

The commissioner rejected this, filing for judicial review in July 2013.

The High Court’s ruling left the scheme in place, unless NS&I change it “after a process which is lawful within the terms of this judgment”.

Comments (16)

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6:25pm Thu 6 Mar 14

Llanmartinangel says...

Let's hope they appeal and find a judge with common sense. It reveals just how little this prehistoric nonsense is actually used. And how much it costs everyone else.
Let's hope they appeal and find a judge with common sense. It reveals just how little this prehistoric nonsense is actually used. And how much it costs everyone else. Llanmartinangel
  • Score: 14

6:36pm Thu 6 Mar 14

theviking666 says...

question, what happens in Scotland and northern Ireland about languages?
question, what happens in Scotland and northern Ireland about languages? theviking666
  • Score: 0

6:52pm Thu 6 Mar 14

blackandamber says...

theviking666 wrote:
question, what happens in Scotland and northern Ireland about languages?
You couldn't make this up could you.
[quote][p][bold]theviking666[/bold] wrote: question, what happens in Scotland and northern Ireland about languages?[/p][/quote]You couldn't make this up could you. blackandamber
  • Score: 0

6:54pm Thu 6 Mar 14

blackandamber says...

theviking666 wrote:
question, what happens in Scotland and northern Ireland about languages?
Nothing they are members of the United Kingdom like Wales . The official language of the United Kingdom is ENGLISH.
[quote][p][bold]theviking666[/bold] wrote: question, what happens in Scotland and northern Ireland about languages?[/p][/quote]Nothing they are members of the United Kingdom like Wales . The official language of the United Kingdom is ENGLISH. blackandamber
  • Score: 13

7:26pm Thu 6 Mar 14

theviking666 says...

minus score for asking the question, well done
minus score for asking the question, well done theviking666
  • Score: 2

9:37pm Thu 6 Mar 14

PoppyN15 says...

What a shed load of nonsense, the Welsh language commissioner needs their head tested - who in their right minds would rule in favour of something that is only used by 0.007% of those it serves. Sometimes I am ashamed to be Welsh when rulings like this are approved, it beggars belief.
What a shed load of nonsense, the Welsh language commissioner needs their head tested - who in their right minds would rule in favour of something that is only used by 0.007% of those it serves. Sometimes I am ashamed to be Welsh when rulings like this are approved, it beggars belief. PoppyN15
  • Score: 9

10:48pm Thu 6 Mar 14

scraptheWAG says...

its absolutely no wonder that no firms want to come to wales when they do and the grant is up they leg it accross the severn bridge good god get me out of here
its absolutely no wonder that no firms want to come to wales when they do and the grant is up they leg it accross the severn bridge good god get me out of here scraptheWAG
  • Score: 5

11:38pm Thu 6 Mar 14

grumpyandopinionated says...

I'm ashamed that my fellow welsh men are so quick to knock thier heritige and national language, or is it because they can't speak it as far as they are concerned it shouldnt exist because it makes them feel inadequate. I do however agree that the extra cost can not be justified in areas that hardly speak the language and should not be forced to spend this extra money and only provide the dual language if they wanted too. I myself do not speak it, I was born and raised in newport and there wasn't much sense in learning the language as an adult. I think that welsh should be taught in every school in wales regardless. I don't agree with all the nationalist nuts bang on about though, but I would like to see the language make an eventual comeback.
I'm ashamed that my fellow welsh men are so quick to knock thier heritige and national language, or is it because they can't speak it as far as they are concerned it shouldnt exist because it makes them feel inadequate. I do however agree that the extra cost can not be justified in areas that hardly speak the language and should not be forced to spend this extra money and only provide the dual language if they wanted too. I myself do not speak it, I was born and raised in newport and there wasn't much sense in learning the language as an adult. I think that welsh should be taught in every school in wales regardless. I don't agree with all the nationalist nuts bang on about though, but I would like to see the language make an eventual comeback. grumpyandopinionated
  • Score: -1

10:11am Fri 7 Mar 14

countyjim says...

Dew Dew! Shocking a bank doing business in Wales not wanting to use the native language

Tell you what if your not interested don't do business here simples really Init
Dew Dew! Shocking a bank doing business in Wales not wanting to use the native language Tell you what if your not interested don't do business here simples really Init countyjim
  • Score: -3

10:17am Fri 7 Mar 14

Sometimes says...

grumpyandopinionated wrote:
I'm ashamed that my fellow welsh men are so quick to knock thier heritige and national language, or is it because they can't speak it as far as they are concerned it shouldnt exist because it makes them feel inadequate. I do however agree that the extra cost can not be justified in areas that hardly speak the language and should not be forced to spend this extra money and only provide the dual language if they wanted too. I myself do not speak it, I was born and raised in newport and there wasn't much sense in learning the language as an adult. I think that welsh should be taught in every school in wales regardless. I don't agree with all the nationalist nuts bang on about though, but I would like to see the language make an eventual comeback.
If we're talking about heritage, then I'm guessing I should have paid more attention to Latin when I was in school as that has been in use in Wales longer than the current version of what we call Welsh today. As for the national language, that is still English. I'm an English speaking welsh nationalist and proud of it, but ashamed of all the Welsh speaking nationalists that is making our small country the laughing stock of the world and the poor relation to the rest of the UK by insisting that what little money we have is wasted on their own pet projects. Its about time that the WAG started to listen to the majority of Welsh English speakers about what they want their money spent on, rather than the small minded minority, if they want to watch S4C, then let them pay per view, not have the rest of us pay the bill for them, and the same for the Utility Companies, why should I have to pay more for my Gas, Electricity, Water so they can give me two copies of my bill, one in English, the other in welsh just for me to throw the welsh one away. It doesn't make any economical sense. Bring on the referendum about whether we want to keep the WAG, its long over due.
[quote][p][bold]grumpyandopinionated[/bold] wrote: I'm ashamed that my fellow welsh men are so quick to knock thier heritige and national language, or is it because they can't speak it as far as they are concerned it shouldnt exist because it makes them feel inadequate. I do however agree that the extra cost can not be justified in areas that hardly speak the language and should not be forced to spend this extra money and only provide the dual language if they wanted too. I myself do not speak it, I was born and raised in newport and there wasn't much sense in learning the language as an adult. I think that welsh should be taught in every school in wales regardless. I don't agree with all the nationalist nuts bang on about though, but I would like to see the language make an eventual comeback.[/p][/quote]If we're talking about heritage, then I'm guessing I should have paid more attention to Latin when I was in school as that has been in use in Wales longer than the current version of what we call Welsh today. As for the national language, that is still English. I'm an English speaking welsh nationalist and proud of it, but ashamed of all the Welsh speaking nationalists that is making our small country the laughing stock of the world and the poor relation to the rest of the UK by insisting that what little money we have is wasted on their own pet projects. Its about time that the WAG started to listen to the majority of Welsh English speakers about what they want their money spent on, rather than the small minded minority, if they want to watch S4C, then let them pay per view, not have the rest of us pay the bill for them, and the same for the Utility Companies, why should I have to pay more for my Gas, Electricity, Water so they can give me two copies of my bill, one in English, the other in welsh just for me to throw the welsh one away. It doesn't make any economical sense. Bring on the referendum about whether we want to keep the WAG, its long over due. Sometimes
  • Score: 6

11:44am Fri 7 Mar 14

Llanmartinangel says...

countyjim wrote:
Dew Dew! Shocking a bank doing business in Wales not wanting to use the native language

Tell you what if your not interested don't do business here simples really Init
The native language is English.
[quote][p][bold]countyjim[/bold] wrote: Dew Dew! Shocking a bank doing business in Wales not wanting to use the native language Tell you what if your not interested don't do business here simples really Init[/p][/quote]The native language is English. Llanmartinangel
  • Score: 5

1:09pm Fri 7 Mar 14

mal92 says...

Sometimes wrote:
grumpyandopinionated wrote:
I'm ashamed that my fellow welsh men are so quick to knock thier heritige and national language, or is it because they can't speak it as far as they are concerned it shouldnt exist because it makes them feel inadequate. I do however agree that the extra cost can not be justified in areas that hardly speak the language and should not be forced to spend this extra money and only provide the dual language if they wanted too. I myself do not speak it, I was born and raised in newport and there wasn't much sense in learning the language as an adult. I think that welsh should be taught in every school in wales regardless. I don't agree with all the nationalist nuts bang on about though, but I would like to see the language make an eventual comeback.
If we're talking about heritage, then I'm guessing I should have paid more attention to Latin when I was in school as that has been in use in Wales longer than the current version of what we call Welsh today. As for the national language, that is still English. I'm an English speaking welsh nationalist and proud of it, but ashamed of all the Welsh speaking nationalists that is making our small country the laughing stock of the world and the poor relation to the rest of the UK by insisting that what little money we have is wasted on their own pet projects. Its about time that the WAG started to listen to the majority of Welsh English speakers about what they want their money spent on, rather than the small minded minority, if they want to watch S4C, then let them pay per view, not have the rest of us pay the bill for them, and the same for the Utility Companies, why should I have to pay more for my Gas, Electricity, Water so they can give me two copies of my bill, one in English, the other in welsh just for me to throw the welsh one away. It doesn't make any economical sense. Bring on the referendum about whether we want to keep the WAG, its long over due.
If you have an online version it costs you nothing and there's no waste!
[quote][p][bold]Sometimes[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]grumpyandopinionated[/bold] wrote: I'm ashamed that my fellow welsh men are so quick to knock thier heritige and national language, or is it because they can't speak it as far as they are concerned it shouldnt exist because it makes them feel inadequate. I do however agree that the extra cost can not be justified in areas that hardly speak the language and should not be forced to spend this extra money and only provide the dual language if they wanted too. I myself do not speak it, I was born and raised in newport and there wasn't much sense in learning the language as an adult. I think that welsh should be taught in every school in wales regardless. I don't agree with all the nationalist nuts bang on about though, but I would like to see the language make an eventual comeback.[/p][/quote]If we're talking about heritage, then I'm guessing I should have paid more attention to Latin when I was in school as that has been in use in Wales longer than the current version of what we call Welsh today. As for the national language, that is still English. I'm an English speaking welsh nationalist and proud of it, but ashamed of all the Welsh speaking nationalists that is making our small country the laughing stock of the world and the poor relation to the rest of the UK by insisting that what little money we have is wasted on their own pet projects. Its about time that the WAG started to listen to the majority of Welsh English speakers about what they want their money spent on, rather than the small minded minority, if they want to watch S4C, then let them pay per view, not have the rest of us pay the bill for them, and the same for the Utility Companies, why should I have to pay more for my Gas, Electricity, Water so they can give me two copies of my bill, one in English, the other in welsh just for me to throw the welsh one away. It doesn't make any economical sense. Bring on the referendum about whether we want to keep the WAG, its long over due.[/p][/quote]If you have an online version it costs you nothing and there's no waste! mal92
  • Score: 0

3:36pm Fri 7 Mar 14

grumpyandopinionated says...

Sometimes wrote:
grumpyandopinionated wrote:
I'm ashamed that my fellow welsh men are so quick to knock thier heritige and national language, or is it because they can't speak it as far as they are concerned it shouldnt exist because it makes them feel inadequate. I do however agree that the extra cost can not be justified in areas that hardly speak the language and should not be forced to spend this extra money and only provide the dual language if they wanted too. I myself do not speak it, I was born and raised in newport and there wasn't much sense in learning the language as an adult. I think that welsh should be taught in every school in wales regardless. I don't agree with all the nationalist nuts bang on about though, but I would like to see the language make an eventual comeback.
If we're talking about heritage, then I'm guessing I should have paid more attention to Latin when I was in school as that has been in use in Wales longer than the current version of what we call Welsh today. As for the national language, that is still English. I'm an English speaking welsh nationalist and proud of it, but ashamed of all the Welsh speaking nationalists that is making our small country the laughing stock of the world and the poor relation to the rest of the UK by insisting that what little money we have is wasted on their own pet projects. Its about time that the WAG started to listen to the majority of Welsh English speakers about what they want their money spent on, rather than the small minded minority, if they want to watch S4C, then let them pay per view, not have the rest of us pay the bill for them, and the same for the Utility Companies, why should I have to pay more for my Gas, Electricity, Water so they can give me two copies of my bill, one in English, the other in welsh just for me to throw the welsh one away. It doesn't make any economical sense. Bring on the referendum about whether we want to keep the WAG, its long over due.
If you want to split hairs I'm pretty sure that latin was a laguage introduced from the mainland europe. So thats not an actual native language either.

How exactly is a 19% of the population that speaks welsh a small minded minority? Wales is always going to be divided by it's own laguage because of the number of those like myself that don't speak it and therefore do not see the true value of keeping it, I agree that the extra expense to business should not be a forced thing. I'm quite happy however to pay my share of the costs towards the subsidised funds to keep the language alive.

I really don't think that those that want to keep the welsh language or promote it are the ones that are making wales a laughing stock. It's the inept WA that haven't got a clue that are letting us down.

I'm pretty sure also that the magority of welsh speakers in affluent areas or the north west wales that do not recive much in the way of grants or support in thier areas like vast amounts of money we get in founding in and around the south/south east wales. Are fed up of the whining from the magority of the english speaking welsh are making over the welsh language. So is that completly finacially fair. Or do we all want to have our cake and eat it.

We are Welsh, Welsh all being a minority language is still a traditional welsh language that goes hand in hand with everything that is welsh, just like st david, the daffodil and the leek. It might not be important to most but to a few it is. Also is it not a form of Racism for a magority to force change on a minority? In keeping with that thought, forcing the welsh speakers to pay for thier own language translations or using this language would be pretty much like making Pakistani students pay for thier own education.
[quote][p][bold]Sometimes[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]grumpyandopinionated[/bold] wrote: I'm ashamed that my fellow welsh men are so quick to knock thier heritige and national language, or is it because they can't speak it as far as they are concerned it shouldnt exist because it makes them feel inadequate. I do however agree that the extra cost can not be justified in areas that hardly speak the language and should not be forced to spend this extra money and only provide the dual language if they wanted too. I myself do not speak it, I was born and raised in newport and there wasn't much sense in learning the language as an adult. I think that welsh should be taught in every school in wales regardless. I don't agree with all the nationalist nuts bang on about though, but I would like to see the language make an eventual comeback.[/p][/quote]If we're talking about heritage, then I'm guessing I should have paid more attention to Latin when I was in school as that has been in use in Wales longer than the current version of what we call Welsh today. As for the national language, that is still English. I'm an English speaking welsh nationalist and proud of it, but ashamed of all the Welsh speaking nationalists that is making our small country the laughing stock of the world and the poor relation to the rest of the UK by insisting that what little money we have is wasted on their own pet projects. Its about time that the WAG started to listen to the majority of Welsh English speakers about what they want their money spent on, rather than the small minded minority, if they want to watch S4C, then let them pay per view, not have the rest of us pay the bill for them, and the same for the Utility Companies, why should I have to pay more for my Gas, Electricity, Water so they can give me two copies of my bill, one in English, the other in welsh just for me to throw the welsh one away. It doesn't make any economical sense. Bring on the referendum about whether we want to keep the WAG, its long over due.[/p][/quote]If you want to split hairs I'm pretty sure that latin was a laguage introduced from the mainland europe. So thats not an actual native language either. How exactly is a 19% of the population that speaks welsh a small minded minority? Wales is always going to be divided by it's own laguage because of the number of those like myself that don't speak it and therefore do not see the true value of keeping it, I agree that the extra expense to business should not be a forced thing. I'm quite happy however to pay my share of the costs towards the subsidised funds to keep the language alive. I really don't think that those that want to keep the welsh language or promote it are the ones that are making wales a laughing stock. It's the inept WA that haven't got a clue that are letting us down. I'm pretty sure also that the magority of welsh speakers in affluent areas or the north west wales that do not recive much in the way of grants or support in thier areas like vast amounts of money we get in founding in and around the south/south east wales. Are fed up of the whining from the magority of the english speaking welsh are making over the welsh language. So is that completly finacially fair. Or do we all want to have our cake and eat it. We are Welsh, Welsh all being a minority language is still a traditional welsh language that goes hand in hand with everything that is welsh, just like st david, the daffodil and the leek. It might not be important to most but to a few it is. Also is it not a form of Racism for a magority to force change on a minority? In keeping with that thought, forcing the welsh speakers to pay for thier own language translations or using this language would be pretty much like making Pakistani students pay for thier own education. grumpyandopinionated
  • Score: -2

5:16pm Fri 7 Mar 14

Llanmartinangel says...

grumpyandopinionated wrote:
Sometimes wrote:
grumpyandopinionated wrote:
I'm ashamed that my fellow welsh men are so quick to knock thier heritige and national language, or is it because they can't speak it as far as they are concerned it shouldnt exist because it makes them feel inadequate. I do however agree that the extra cost can not be justified in areas that hardly speak the language and should not be forced to spend this extra money and only provide the dual language if they wanted too. I myself do not speak it, I was born and raised in newport and there wasn't much sense in learning the language as an adult. I think that welsh should be taught in every school in wales regardless. I don't agree with all the nationalist nuts bang on about though, but I would like to see the language make an eventual comeback.
If we're talking about heritage, then I'm guessing I should have paid more attention to Latin when I was in school as that has been in use in Wales longer than the current version of what we call Welsh today. As for the national language, that is still English. I'm an English speaking welsh nationalist and proud of it, but ashamed of all the Welsh speaking nationalists that is making our small country the laughing stock of the world and the poor relation to the rest of the UK by insisting that what little money we have is wasted on their own pet projects. Its about time that the WAG started to listen to the majority of Welsh English speakers about what they want their money spent on, rather than the small minded minority, if they want to watch S4C, then let them pay per view, not have the rest of us pay the bill for them, and the same for the Utility Companies, why should I have to pay more for my Gas, Electricity, Water so they can give me two copies of my bill, one in English, the other in welsh just for me to throw the welsh one away. It doesn't make any economical sense. Bring on the referendum about whether we want to keep the WAG, its long over due.
If you want to split hairs I'm pretty sure that latin was a laguage introduced from the mainland europe. So thats not an actual native language either.

How exactly is a 19% of the population that speaks welsh a small minded minority? Wales is always going to be divided by it's own laguage because of the number of those like myself that don't speak it and therefore do not see the true value of keeping it, I agree that the extra expense to business should not be a forced thing. I'm quite happy however to pay my share of the costs towards the subsidised funds to keep the language alive.

I really don't think that those that want to keep the welsh language or promote it are the ones that are making wales a laughing stock. It's the inept WA that haven't got a clue that are letting us down.

I'm pretty sure also that the magority of welsh speakers in affluent areas or the north west wales that do not recive much in the way of grants or support in thier areas like vast amounts of money we get in founding in and around the south/south east wales. Are fed up of the whining from the magority of the english speaking welsh are making over the welsh language. So is that completly finacially fair. Or do we all want to have our cake and eat it.

We are Welsh, Welsh all being a minority language is still a traditional welsh language that goes hand in hand with everything that is welsh, just like st david, the daffodil and the leek. It might not be important to most but to a few it is. Also is it not a form of Racism for a magority to force change on a minority? In keeping with that thought, forcing the welsh speakers to pay for thier own language translations or using this language would be pretty much like making Pakistani students pay for thier own education.
If 19% speak it, how come usage at NSA was so low ? Easy, the fact is 19% don't speak it. They just say they do when the census form arrives.
[quote][p][bold]grumpyandopinionated[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sometimes[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]grumpyandopinionated[/bold] wrote: I'm ashamed that my fellow welsh men are so quick to knock thier heritige and national language, or is it because they can't speak it as far as they are concerned it shouldnt exist because it makes them feel inadequate. I do however agree that the extra cost can not be justified in areas that hardly speak the language and should not be forced to spend this extra money and only provide the dual language if they wanted too. I myself do not speak it, I was born and raised in newport and there wasn't much sense in learning the language as an adult. I think that welsh should be taught in every school in wales regardless. I don't agree with all the nationalist nuts bang on about though, but I would like to see the language make an eventual comeback.[/p][/quote]If we're talking about heritage, then I'm guessing I should have paid more attention to Latin when I was in school as that has been in use in Wales longer than the current version of what we call Welsh today. As for the national language, that is still English. I'm an English speaking welsh nationalist and proud of it, but ashamed of all the Welsh speaking nationalists that is making our small country the laughing stock of the world and the poor relation to the rest of the UK by insisting that what little money we have is wasted on their own pet projects. Its about time that the WAG started to listen to the majority of Welsh English speakers about what they want their money spent on, rather than the small minded minority, if they want to watch S4C, then let them pay per view, not have the rest of us pay the bill for them, and the same for the Utility Companies, why should I have to pay more for my Gas, Electricity, Water so they can give me two copies of my bill, one in English, the other in welsh just for me to throw the welsh one away. It doesn't make any economical sense. Bring on the referendum about whether we want to keep the WAG, its long over due.[/p][/quote]If you want to split hairs I'm pretty sure that latin was a laguage introduced from the mainland europe. So thats not an actual native language either. How exactly is a 19% of the population that speaks welsh a small minded minority? Wales is always going to be divided by it's own laguage because of the number of those like myself that don't speak it and therefore do not see the true value of keeping it, I agree that the extra expense to business should not be a forced thing. I'm quite happy however to pay my share of the costs towards the subsidised funds to keep the language alive. I really don't think that those that want to keep the welsh language or promote it are the ones that are making wales a laughing stock. It's the inept WA that haven't got a clue that are letting us down. I'm pretty sure also that the magority of welsh speakers in affluent areas or the north west wales that do not recive much in the way of grants or support in thier areas like vast amounts of money we get in founding in and around the south/south east wales. Are fed up of the whining from the magority of the english speaking welsh are making over the welsh language. So is that completly finacially fair. Or do we all want to have our cake and eat it. We are Welsh, Welsh all being a minority language is still a traditional welsh language that goes hand in hand with everything that is welsh, just like st david, the daffodil and the leek. It might not be important to most but to a few it is. Also is it not a form of Racism for a magority to force change on a minority? In keeping with that thought, forcing the welsh speakers to pay for thier own language translations or using this language would be pretty much like making Pakistani students pay for thier own education.[/p][/quote]If 19% speak it, how come usage at NSA was so low ? Easy, the fact is 19% don't speak it. They just say they do when the census form arrives. Llanmartinangel
  • Score: 3

6:39pm Fri 7 Mar 14

grumpyandopinionated says...

Llanmartinangel wrote:
grumpyandopinionated wrote:
Sometimes wrote:
grumpyandopinionated wrote:
I'm ashamed that my fellow welsh men are so quick to knock thier heritige and national language, or is it because they can't speak it as far as they are concerned it shouldnt exist because it makes them feel inadequate. I do however agree that the extra cost can not be justified in areas that hardly speak the language and should not be forced to spend this extra money and only provide the dual language if they wanted too. I myself do not speak it, I was born and raised in newport and there wasn't much sense in learning the language as an adult. I think that welsh should be taught in every school in wales regardless. I don't agree with all the nationalist nuts bang on about though, but I would like to see the language make an eventual comeback.
If we're talking about heritage, then I'm guessing I should have paid more attention to Latin when I was in school as that has been in use in Wales longer than the current version of what we call Welsh today. As for the national language, that is still English. I'm an English speaking welsh nationalist and proud of it, but ashamed of all the Welsh speaking nationalists that is making our small country the laughing stock of the world and the poor relation to the rest of the UK by insisting that what little money we have is wasted on their own pet projects. Its about time that the WAG started to listen to the majority of Welsh English speakers about what they want their money spent on, rather than the small minded minority, if they want to watch S4C, then let them pay per view, not have the rest of us pay the bill for them, and the same for the Utility Companies, why should I have to pay more for my Gas, Electricity, Water so they can give me two copies of my bill, one in English, the other in welsh just for me to throw the welsh one away. It doesn't make any economical sense. Bring on the referendum about whether we want to keep the WAG, its long over due.
If you want to split hairs I'm pretty sure that latin was a laguage introduced from the mainland europe. So thats not an actual native language either.

How exactly is a 19% of the population that speaks welsh a small minded minority? Wales is always going to be divided by it's own laguage because of the number of those like myself that don't speak it and therefore do not see the true value of keeping it, I agree that the extra expense to business should not be a forced thing. I'm quite happy however to pay my share of the costs towards the subsidised funds to keep the language alive.

I really don't think that those that want to keep the welsh language or promote it are the ones that are making wales a laughing stock. It's the inept WA that haven't got a clue that are letting us down.

I'm pretty sure also that the magority of welsh speakers in affluent areas or the north west wales that do not recive much in the way of grants or support in thier areas like vast amounts of money we get in founding in and around the south/south east wales. Are fed up of the whining from the magority of the english speaking welsh are making over the welsh language. So is that completly finacially fair. Or do we all want to have our cake and eat it.

We are Welsh, Welsh all being a minority language is still a traditional welsh language that goes hand in hand with everything that is welsh, just like st david, the daffodil and the leek. It might not be important to most but to a few it is. Also is it not a form of Racism for a magority to force change on a minority? In keeping with that thought, forcing the welsh speakers to pay for thier own language translations or using this language would be pretty much like making Pakistani students pay for thier own education.
If 19% speak it, how come usage at NSA was so low ? Easy, the fact is 19% don't speak it. They just say they do when the census form arrives.
Whats the National Security Agency got to do with who speaks welsh in wales? I'm assuming that thats the NSA you mean? If not then please don't use acronyms that can mean so many other things without stating first. It might make you feel cleaver but in reallity just makes you seem arrogant.

Ok maybe even if 50% of those that say they can speak welsh actually can then thats still 9.5%

As I've said I'm not an advocate of forcing the language and I thnk that the expense to business to provide dual languages when even welsh speakers can speak english fluently is justified. But on the other hand I am far more objective about letting it die out or victimising those that do speak it and prefer that they see the use of the language.

What does fascinate me is that after all I've said the only thing that you comment on is that fact that some people lie on a census??
[quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]grumpyandopinionated[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sometimes[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]grumpyandopinionated[/bold] wrote: I'm ashamed that my fellow welsh men are so quick to knock thier heritige and national language, or is it because they can't speak it as far as they are concerned it shouldnt exist because it makes them feel inadequate. I do however agree that the extra cost can not be justified in areas that hardly speak the language and should not be forced to spend this extra money and only provide the dual language if they wanted too. I myself do not speak it, I was born and raised in newport and there wasn't much sense in learning the language as an adult. I think that welsh should be taught in every school in wales regardless. I don't agree with all the nationalist nuts bang on about though, but I would like to see the language make an eventual comeback.[/p][/quote]If we're talking about heritage, then I'm guessing I should have paid more attention to Latin when I was in school as that has been in use in Wales longer than the current version of what we call Welsh today. As for the national language, that is still English. I'm an English speaking welsh nationalist and proud of it, but ashamed of all the Welsh speaking nationalists that is making our small country the laughing stock of the world and the poor relation to the rest of the UK by insisting that what little money we have is wasted on their own pet projects. Its about time that the WAG started to listen to the majority of Welsh English speakers about what they want their money spent on, rather than the small minded minority, if they want to watch S4C, then let them pay per view, not have the rest of us pay the bill for them, and the same for the Utility Companies, why should I have to pay more for my Gas, Electricity, Water so they can give me two copies of my bill, one in English, the other in welsh just for me to throw the welsh one away. It doesn't make any economical sense. Bring on the referendum about whether we want to keep the WAG, its long over due.[/p][/quote]If you want to split hairs I'm pretty sure that latin was a laguage introduced from the mainland europe. So thats not an actual native language either. How exactly is a 19% of the population that speaks welsh a small minded minority? Wales is always going to be divided by it's own laguage because of the number of those like myself that don't speak it and therefore do not see the true value of keeping it, I agree that the extra expense to business should not be a forced thing. I'm quite happy however to pay my share of the costs towards the subsidised funds to keep the language alive. I really don't think that those that want to keep the welsh language or promote it are the ones that are making wales a laughing stock. It's the inept WA that haven't got a clue that are letting us down. I'm pretty sure also that the magority of welsh speakers in affluent areas or the north west wales that do not recive much in the way of grants or support in thier areas like vast amounts of money we get in founding in and around the south/south east wales. Are fed up of the whining from the magority of the english speaking welsh are making over the welsh language. So is that completly finacially fair. Or do we all want to have our cake and eat it. We are Welsh, Welsh all being a minority language is still a traditional welsh language that goes hand in hand with everything that is welsh, just like st david, the daffodil and the leek. It might not be important to most but to a few it is. Also is it not a form of Racism for a magority to force change on a minority? In keeping with that thought, forcing the welsh speakers to pay for thier own language translations or using this language would be pretty much like making Pakistani students pay for thier own education.[/p][/quote]If 19% speak it, how come usage at NSA was so low ? Easy, the fact is 19% don't speak it. They just say they do when the census form arrives.[/p][/quote]Whats the National Security Agency got to do with who speaks welsh in wales? I'm assuming that thats the NSA you mean? If not then please don't use acronyms that can mean so many other things without stating first. It might make you feel cleaver but in reallity just makes you seem arrogant. Ok maybe even if 50% of those that say they can speak welsh actually can then thats still 9.5% As I've said I'm not an advocate of forcing the language and I thnk that the expense to business to provide dual languages when even welsh speakers can speak english fluently is justified. But on the other hand I am far more objective about letting it die out or victimising those that do speak it and prefer that they see the use of the language. What does fascinate me is that after all I've said the only thing that you comment on is that fact that some people lie on a census?? grumpyandopinionated
  • Score: -1

6:47pm Fri 7 Mar 14

grumpyandopinionated says...

Maybe it's not the fact that 19% of people lie on the census, but 19% of people feel compelled to link the welsh language to being welsh. I always look for the welsh option on those forms that ask your ethnic origin. But alas most either are British or Irish.
Maybe it's not the fact that 19% of people lie on the census, but 19% of people feel compelled to link the welsh language to being welsh. I always look for the welsh option on those forms that ask your ethnic origin. But alas most either are British or Irish. grumpyandopinionated
  • Score: -2

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