Ann Clwyd has produced 'no evidence' on Welsh NHS 'crisis' - Carwyn Jones

South Wales Argus: ACCUSATION: Lynne Neagle ACCUSATION: Lynne Neagle

THE first minister attacked veteran Labour MP Ann Clwyd’s campaign on the Welsh NHS yesterday, saying she had produced no facts and no evidence.

Carwyn Jones said its important a report on Ms Clwyd’s husband should be made public and claimed she has produced nothing but anonymous comments that can’t be investigated.

It came after the leader of the opposition, Andrew RT Davies, asked him if he agreed with comments made by Torfaen AM Lynne Neagle that Mrs Clwyd should stop denigrating the Welsh NHS, made in the Assembly earlier in March.

Ms Neagle later accused Mr Davies of misrepresenting her and leading a smear campaign against the country’s health service, before being called to order by the presiding officer.

Mr Jones, who spoke during First Minister’s Questions in the Senedd, told AMs: “Ann has based her allegations on the way her husband was treated – she has refused permission for the report surrounding her husband’s treatment to be made public.

“I think its important for people to make a judgement on what happened that that report is made public, but that of course is a matter for others.

He continued: “Ann Clwyd has produced no evidence and no facts... She has produced nothing but anonymous comments that are unattributable - we don’t know where they are from, we don’t know whether they are correct or not, they can’t be investigated.

“I’m afraid we have asked her on more than one occasion to produce the evidence to back up her claims.”

The comments were prompted by Welsh Tory leader Mr Davies, who asked if Mr Jones thought Ann Clwyd should stop her campaign for better standards for patient care in the Welsh NHS “as the member for Torfaen indicated some two weeks ago.”

Later on Lynne Neagle accused Mr Davies of misrepresenting her comments, saying she didn’t call on Mrs Clwyd to stop campaigning but had said “that all cases of poor case are unacceptable but that doesn’t not give anyone the right to denigrate the entire Welsh NHS.”

She said she very much regretted the cheap shot from the leader of the Welsh Conservatives and accused him of leading his own “smear campaign” against the Welsh NHS.

Rosemary Butler called Ms Neagle, who had raised her voice over the heckling in the Senedd, to order, and the Torfaen AM’s microphone dropped out.

Comments (44)

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8:35pm Tue 18 Mar 14

gingertom says...

Carwyn jones should hang his head in shame anne clwyd is not only an experienced MP but she is still grieving for her husband. He nor rhodri morgan have done anything to make the welsh nhs efficient, effective or productive. The WAG has wasted time on passing laws on carrier bags instead of sorting out the shambles of an ambulance service, the availability of 21st century treatments for patients and state of the art equipment in the welsh nhs. These AM's are on the gravy train and couldn't care less about the service welsh people are tolerating at this time.
Carwyn jones should hang his head in shame anne clwyd is not only an experienced MP but she is still grieving for her husband. He nor rhodri morgan have done anything to make the welsh nhs efficient, effective or productive. The WAG has wasted time on passing laws on carrier bags instead of sorting out the shambles of an ambulance service, the availability of 21st century treatments for patients and state of the art equipment in the welsh nhs. These AM's are on the gravy train and couldn't care less about the service welsh people are tolerating at this time. gingertom
  • Score: 20

8:42pm Tue 18 Mar 14

Llanmartinangel says...

Carwyn illustrates the dangers of a one party state like no other. In abject denial and treating all opposition like idiots.
Carwyn illustrates the dangers of a one party state like no other. In abject denial and treating all opposition like idiots. Llanmartinangel
  • Score: 20

9:12pm Tue 18 Mar 14

Ollie254 says...

Anne Clwyd has her own personal experience to draw on and that is much better than producing evidence from patient forums or focus groups. She has the T shirt and the experience,so touchingly documented, is still raw and deep. If ever there was someone who should be listened too re the NHS experience then it is her.
Anne Clwyd has her own personal experience to draw on and that is much better than producing evidence from patient forums or focus groups. She has the T shirt and the experience,so touchingly documented, is still raw and deep. If ever there was someone who should be listened too re the NHS experience then it is her. Ollie254
  • Score: 20

9:28pm Tue 18 Mar 14

paddyparry says...

They can't even take criticism from their own MP. Why do they think that people can't see that there is anything wrong? Carwyn Jones should hang his head in shame. How long before they blame the UK government for this mess. Then again people voted for this bunch of Muppets.
They can't even take criticism from their own MP. Why do they think that people can't see that there is anything wrong? Carwyn Jones should hang his head in shame. How long before they blame the UK government for this mess. Then again people voted for this bunch of Muppets. paddyparry
  • Score: 17

9:44pm Tue 18 Mar 14

varteg1 says...

I don't wish to comment on the NHS as such, which I find personally to be very good, I may have to wait a while for appointments etc, but am fortunate to not be in urgent need, however, our gobby leader seems to demand 'evidence,' so I likewise demand he provide evidence of just what this so called Assembly have actually done since being conceived that would not have been done anyway..
I don't wish to comment on the NHS as such, which I find personally to be very good, I may have to wait a while for appointments etc, but am fortunate to not be in urgent need, however, our gobby leader seems to demand 'evidence,' so I likewise demand he provide evidence of just what this so called Assembly have actually done since being conceived that would not have been done anyway.. varteg1
  • Score: 18

9:50pm Tue 18 Mar 14

On the inside says...

And yet all the above demand evidence when anyone points out that the rich scum that floats on the top of the tory party are accused of robbing the poor to pay the rich.
And yet all the above demand evidence when anyone points out that the rich scum that floats on the top of the tory party are accused of robbing the poor to pay the rich. On the inside
  • Score: -17

10:06pm Tue 18 Mar 14

Dipole says...

If he wants to see proof of the crisis his party has put the Welsh NHS in he just needs,to go out and speak to those who work in it on a daily basis. But he won't he will spend his time pretending everything is wonderful and scoring cheap shots against a grieving widow
If he wants to see proof of the crisis his party has put the Welsh NHS in he just needs,to go out and speak to those who work in it on a daily basis. But he won't he will spend his time pretending everything is wonderful and scoring cheap shots against a grieving widow Dipole
  • Score: 16

10:40pm Tue 18 Mar 14

Llanmartinangel says...

On the inside wrote:
And yet all the above demand evidence when anyone points out that the rich scum that floats on the top of the tory party are accused of robbing the poor to pay the rich.
And speaking of 'denial', a mindless party hack weighs in.
[quote][p][bold]On the inside[/bold] wrote: And yet all the above demand evidence when anyone points out that the rich scum that floats on the top of the tory party are accused of robbing the poor to pay the rich.[/p][/quote]And speaking of 'denial', a mindless party hack weighs in. Llanmartinangel
  • Score: 12

11:00pm Tue 18 Mar 14

The Red Claw says...

Jones has spoken with the arrogance and confidence of a person who knows that if he or his need urgent medical treatment, he or his will be ‘going private’.
Jones has spoken with the arrogance and confidence of a person who knows that if he or his need urgent medical treatment, he or his will be ‘going private’. The Red Claw
  • Score: 15

12:00am Wed 19 Mar 14

Frankfurt says...

I find the NHS very good as well. But there do seem to be people who are hell bent on destroying it and if we allow them we will regret losing a service which is precious to us. Anne Clwyd has gone on and on about her husband and complains that he treated "like a battery hen" and attacked the nurses who looked after him. Yet she will not allow the report into his treatment to be made public. Why? Surely if she is really that concerned she would allow an open debate. This is part of the problem. The critics say what they like but the NHS have their hands tied behind their backs because of patient confidentiality. So we have little idea of the truth and are unlikely ever to find out.
I find the NHS very good as well. But there do seem to be people who are hell bent on destroying it and if we allow them we will regret losing a service which is precious to us. Anne Clwyd has gone on and on about her husband and complains that he treated "like a battery hen" and attacked the nurses who looked after him. Yet she will not allow the report into his treatment to be made public. Why? Surely if she is really that concerned she would allow an open debate. This is part of the problem. The critics say what they like but the NHS have their hands tied behind their backs because of patient confidentiality. So we have little idea of the truth and are unlikely ever to find out. Frankfurt
  • Score: -9

7:17am Wed 19 Mar 14

Llanmartinangel says...

Frankfurt wrote:
I find the NHS very good as well. But there do seem to be people who are hell bent on destroying it and if we allow them we will regret losing a service which is precious to us. Anne Clwyd has gone on and on about her husband and complains that he treated "like a battery hen" and attacked the nurses who looked after him. Yet she will not allow the report into his treatment to be made public. Why? Surely if she is really that concerned she would allow an open debate. This is part of the problem. The critics say what they like but the NHS have their hands tied behind their backs because of patient confidentiality. So we have little idea of the truth and are unlikely ever to find out.
Was the report on how many heart patients died on waiting lists not evidence? The patients stuck in ambulances outside A&E for hours on end? The ludicrous length of orthopaedic treatment waiting lists? The waits for diagnostic tests?
[quote][p][bold]Frankfurt[/bold] wrote: I find the NHS very good as well. But there do seem to be people who are hell bent on destroying it and if we allow them we will regret losing a service which is precious to us. Anne Clwyd has gone on and on about her husband and complains that he treated "like a battery hen" and attacked the nurses who looked after him. Yet she will not allow the report into his treatment to be made public. Why? Surely if she is really that concerned she would allow an open debate. This is part of the problem. The critics say what they like but the NHS have their hands tied behind their backs because of patient confidentiality. So we have little idea of the truth and are unlikely ever to find out.[/p][/quote]Was the report on how many heart patients died on waiting lists not evidence? The patients stuck in ambulances outside A&E for hours on end? The ludicrous length of orthopaedic treatment waiting lists? The waits for diagnostic tests? Llanmartinangel
  • Score: 14

8:06am Wed 19 Mar 14

Frankfurt says...

Llanmartinangel wrote:
Frankfurt wrote:
I find the NHS very good as well. But there do seem to be people who are hell bent on destroying it and if we allow them we will regret losing a service which is precious to us. Anne Clwyd has gone on and on about her husband and complains that he treated "like a battery hen" and attacked the nurses who looked after him. Yet she will not allow the report into his treatment to be made public. Why? Surely if she is really that concerned she would allow an open debate. This is part of the problem. The critics say what they like but the NHS have their hands tied behind their backs because of patient confidentiality. So we have little idea of the truth and are unlikely ever to find out.
Was the report on how many heart patients died on waiting lists not evidence? The patients stuck in ambulances outside A&E for hours on end? The ludicrous length of orthopaedic treatment waiting lists? The waits for diagnostic tests?
Yes they are and there are obvious problems shown by these figures though my own experience of the NHS has that of my family has been positive. What I find irritating is people making generalised comments which can't be refuted without examining individual cases and revealing patient information. So it is very difficult for the NHS to fight back. It is also obvious that Anne Clwyd is being used for party political purposes by people in London to attack public services in Wales. These waiting lists have grown since the coalition government came into power and started to cut the money for public services. Prior to 20009 no-one was waiting longer than 36 weeks for treatment in Wales.
[quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Frankfurt[/bold] wrote: I find the NHS very good as well. But there do seem to be people who are hell bent on destroying it and if we allow them we will regret losing a service which is precious to us. Anne Clwyd has gone on and on about her husband and complains that he treated "like a battery hen" and attacked the nurses who looked after him. Yet she will not allow the report into his treatment to be made public. Why? Surely if she is really that concerned she would allow an open debate. This is part of the problem. The critics say what they like but the NHS have their hands tied behind their backs because of patient confidentiality. So we have little idea of the truth and are unlikely ever to find out.[/p][/quote]Was the report on how many heart patients died on waiting lists not evidence? The patients stuck in ambulances outside A&E for hours on end? The ludicrous length of orthopaedic treatment waiting lists? The waits for diagnostic tests?[/p][/quote]Yes they are and there are obvious problems shown by these figures though my own experience of the NHS has that of my family has been positive. What I find irritating is people making generalised comments which can't be refuted without examining individual cases and revealing patient information. So it is very difficult for the NHS to fight back. It is also obvious that Anne Clwyd is being used for party political purposes by people in London to attack public services in Wales. These waiting lists have grown since the coalition government came into power and started to cut the money for public services. Prior to 20009 no-one was waiting longer than 36 weeks for treatment in Wales. Frankfurt
  • Score: -9

8:22am Wed 19 Mar 14

Llanmartinangel says...

Frankfurt wrote:
Llanmartinangel wrote:
Frankfurt wrote:
I find the NHS very good as well. But there do seem to be people who are hell bent on destroying it and if we allow them we will regret losing a service which is precious to us. Anne Clwyd has gone on and on about her husband and complains that he treated "like a battery hen" and attacked the nurses who looked after him. Yet she will not allow the report into his treatment to be made public. Why? Surely if she is really that concerned she would allow an open debate. This is part of the problem. The critics say what they like but the NHS have their hands tied behind their backs because of patient confidentiality. So we have little idea of the truth and are unlikely ever to find out.
Was the report on how many heart patients died on waiting lists not evidence? The patients stuck in ambulances outside A&E for hours on end? The ludicrous length of orthopaedic treatment waiting lists? The waits for diagnostic tests?
Yes they are and there are obvious problems shown by these figures though my own experience of the NHS has that of my family has been positive. What I find irritating is people making generalised comments which can't be refuted without examining individual cases and revealing patient information. So it is very difficult for the NHS to fight back. It is also obvious that Anne Clwyd is being used for party political purposes by people in London to attack public services in Wales. These waiting lists have grown since the coalition government came into power and started to cut the money for public services. Prior to 20009 no-one was waiting longer than 36 weeks for treatment in Wales.
It's a devolved issue. WAG's responsibility. They manage to find money to throw at Welsh special interest groups, airports, recruiting 400 more civil servants and refurbishing their own palace, funding commercial ventures like another film studio. It's a question of priorities.
[quote][p][bold]Frankfurt[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Frankfurt[/bold] wrote: I find the NHS very good as well. But there do seem to be people who are hell bent on destroying it and if we allow them we will regret losing a service which is precious to us. Anne Clwyd has gone on and on about her husband and complains that he treated "like a battery hen" and attacked the nurses who looked after him. Yet she will not allow the report into his treatment to be made public. Why? Surely if she is really that concerned she would allow an open debate. This is part of the problem. The critics say what they like but the NHS have their hands tied behind their backs because of patient confidentiality. So we have little idea of the truth and are unlikely ever to find out.[/p][/quote]Was the report on how many heart patients died on waiting lists not evidence? The patients stuck in ambulances outside A&E for hours on end? The ludicrous length of orthopaedic treatment waiting lists? The waits for diagnostic tests?[/p][/quote]Yes they are and there are obvious problems shown by these figures though my own experience of the NHS has that of my family has been positive. What I find irritating is people making generalised comments which can't be refuted without examining individual cases and revealing patient information. So it is very difficult for the NHS to fight back. It is also obvious that Anne Clwyd is being used for party political purposes by people in London to attack public services in Wales. These waiting lists have grown since the coalition government came into power and started to cut the money for public services. Prior to 20009 no-one was waiting longer than 36 weeks for treatment in Wales.[/p][/quote]It's a devolved issue. WAG's responsibility. They manage to find money to throw at Welsh special interest groups, airports, recruiting 400 more civil servants and refurbishing their own palace, funding commercial ventures like another film studio. It's a question of priorities. Llanmartinangel
  • Score: 13

8:32am Wed 19 Mar 14

Anne teak says...

Frankfurt wrote:
I find the NHS very good as well. But there do seem to be people who are hell bent on destroying it and if we allow them we will regret losing a service which is precious to us. Anne Clwyd has gone on and on about her husband and complains that he treated "like a battery hen" and attacked the nurses who looked after him. Yet she will not allow the report into his treatment to be made public. Why? Surely if she is really that concerned she would allow an open debate. This is part of the problem. The critics say what they like but the NHS have their hands tied behind their backs because of patient confidentiality. So we have little idea of the truth and are unlikely ever to find out.
Do you really think that any report on his treatment is going to be impartial?

If you do, then you can have obviously never complained about NHS treatment. As for truth, if you dare complain, the NHS employs external companies to shut you up.

The Welsh Health Inspectorate is next to useless.. Likes to keep civil service hours .....and only investigates a year after a negligent death case has been proved.
[quote][p][bold]Frankfurt[/bold] wrote: I find the NHS very good as well. But there do seem to be people who are hell bent on destroying it and if we allow them we will regret losing a service which is precious to us. Anne Clwyd has gone on and on about her husband and complains that he treated "like a battery hen" and attacked the nurses who looked after him. Yet she will not allow the report into his treatment to be made public. Why? Surely if she is really that concerned she would allow an open debate. This is part of the problem. The critics say what they like but the NHS have their hands tied behind their backs because of patient confidentiality. So we have little idea of the truth and are unlikely ever to find out.[/p][/quote]Do you really think that any report on his treatment is going to be impartial? If you do, then you can have obviously never complained about NHS treatment. As for truth, if you dare complain, the NHS employs external companies to shut you up. The Welsh Health Inspectorate is next to useless.. Likes to keep civil service hours .....and only investigates a year after a negligent death case has been proved. Anne teak
  • Score: 13

1:06pm Wed 19 Mar 14

museumpiece says...

Carwyn Jones cannot divert attention away from the appalling lack of hospital beds by making an appalling attack on Anne Clwyd.
Carwyn Jones cannot divert attention away from the appalling lack of hospital beds by making an appalling attack on Anne Clwyd. museumpiece
  • Score: 9

1:07pm Wed 19 Mar 14

gingertom says...

Llanmartinangel says...


Frankfurt wrote:

Llanmartinangel wrote:

Frankfurt wrote:
I find the NHS very good as well. But there do seem to be people who are hell bent on destroying it and if we allow them we will regret losing a service which is precious to us. Anne Clwyd has gone on and on about her husband and complains that he treated "like a battery hen" and attacked the nurses who looked after him. Yet she will not allow the report into his treatment to be made public. Why? Surely if she is really that concerned she would allow an open debate. This is part of the problem. The critics say what they like but the NHS have their hands tied behind their backs because of patient confidentiality. So we have little idea of the truth and are unlikely ever to find out.
Was the report on how many heart patients died on waiting lists not evidence? The patients stuck in ambulances outside A&E for hours on end? The ludicrous length of orthopaedic treatment waiting lists? The waits for diagnostic tests?Yes they are and there are obvious problems shown by these figures though my own experience of the NHS has that of my family has been positive. What I find irritating is people making generalised comments which can't be refuted without examining individual cases and revealing patient information. So it is very difficult for the NHS to fight back. It is also obvious that Anne Clwyd is being used for party political purposes by people in London to attack public services in Wales. These waiting lists have grown since the coalition government came into power and started to cut the money for public services. Prior to 20009 no-one was waiting longer than 36 weeks for treatment in Wales.It's a devolved issue. WAG's responsibility. They manage to find money to throw at Welsh special interest groups, airports, recruiting 400 more civil servants and refurbishing their own palace, funding commercial ventures like another film studio. It's a question of priorities.

TOTALLY AGREE WITH LLANMARTINANGEL
Llanmartinangel says... Frankfurt wrote: Llanmartinangel wrote: Frankfurt wrote: I find the NHS very good as well. But there do seem to be people who are hell bent on destroying it and if we allow them we will regret losing a service which is precious to us. Anne Clwyd has gone on and on about her husband and complains that he treated "like a battery hen" and attacked the nurses who looked after him. Yet she will not allow the report into his treatment to be made public. Why? Surely if she is really that concerned she would allow an open debate. This is part of the problem. The critics say what they like but the NHS have their hands tied behind their backs because of patient confidentiality. So we have little idea of the truth and are unlikely ever to find out. Was the report on how many heart patients died on waiting lists not evidence? The patients stuck in ambulances outside A&E for hours on end? The ludicrous length of orthopaedic treatment waiting lists? The waits for diagnostic tests?Yes they are and there are obvious problems shown by these figures though my own experience of the NHS has that of my family has been positive. What I find irritating is people making generalised comments which can't be refuted without examining individual cases and revealing patient information. So it is very difficult for the NHS to fight back. It is also obvious that Anne Clwyd is being used for party political purposes by people in London to attack public services in Wales. These waiting lists have grown since the coalition government came into power and started to cut the money for public services. Prior to 20009 no-one was waiting longer than 36 weeks for treatment in Wales.It's a devolved issue. WAG's responsibility. They manage to find money to throw at Welsh special interest groups, airports, recruiting 400 more civil servants and refurbishing their own palace, funding commercial ventures like another film studio. It's a question of priorities. TOTALLY AGREE WITH LLANMARTINANGEL gingertom
  • Score: 4

1:14pm Wed 19 Mar 14

gingertom says...

Anne teak says...


Frankfurt wrote:

I find the NHS very good as well. But there do seem to be people who are hell bent on destroying it and if we allow them we will regret losing a service which is precious to us. Anne Clwyd has gone on and on about her husband and complains that he treated "like a battery hen" and attacked the nurses who looked after him. Yet she will not allow the report into his treatment to be made public. Why? Surely if she is really that concerned she would allow an open debate. This is part of the problem. The critics say what they like but the NHS have their hands tied behind their backs because of patient confidentiality. So we have little idea of the truth and are unlikely ever to find out.

Do you really think that any report on his treatment is going to be impartial?

If you do, then you can have obviously never complained about NHS treatment. As for truth, if you dare complain, the NHS employs external companies to shut you up.

The Welsh Health Inspectorate is next to useless.. Likes to keep civil service hours .....and only investigates a year after a negligent death case has been proved

TOTALLY AGREE WITH ANNE TEAK

We need some proper investigative journalism in wales we have no newspapers with any bottle to stand up for the general public. Our only hope is tim rogers and week in week out programme but the WAG totally bluffs his questions anyway. Audit office, ombudsman, GMC, HIW, CSSIW, et al do nothing for the general public against doctors or hospital trusts. Therefore it is obvious why anne clwyd cannot hand over people's identity willy nilly. The bully boys would have a field day.

SHAME ON CARWYN AND SHAME ON THE WAG!
Anne teak says... Frankfurt wrote: I find the NHS very good as well. But there do seem to be people who are hell bent on destroying it and if we allow them we will regret losing a service which is precious to us. Anne Clwyd has gone on and on about her husband and complains that he treated "like a battery hen" and attacked the nurses who looked after him. Yet she will not allow the report into his treatment to be made public. Why? Surely if she is really that concerned she would allow an open debate. This is part of the problem. The critics say what they like but the NHS have their hands tied behind their backs because of patient confidentiality. So we have little idea of the truth and are unlikely ever to find out. Do you really think that any report on his treatment is going to be impartial? If you do, then you can have obviously never complained about NHS treatment. As for truth, if you dare complain, the NHS employs external companies to shut you up. The Welsh Health Inspectorate is next to useless.. Likes to keep civil service hours .....and only investigates a year after a negligent death case has been proved TOTALLY AGREE WITH ANNE TEAK We need some proper investigative journalism in wales we have no newspapers with any bottle to stand up for the general public. Our only hope is tim rogers and week in week out programme but the WAG totally bluffs his questions anyway. Audit office, ombudsman, GMC, HIW, CSSIW, et al do nothing for the general public against doctors or hospital trusts. Therefore it is obvious why anne clwyd cannot hand over people's identity willy nilly. The bully boys would have a field day. SHAME ON CARWYN AND SHAME ON THE WAG! gingertom
  • Score: 3

3:03pm Wed 19 Mar 14

varteg1 says...

gingertom says.....

"We need some proper investigative journalism in wales we have no newspapers with any bottle to stand up for the general public. ...."

I suggest there are extremely few hacks today who would dare to scribe anti establishment prose, unless there are compelling reasons such as the News of the World phone hacking matter.

Newspapers and the media in general are all in the hands of wealthy owners who refuse to let the journo's rock their very stable yachts Or worse, create a small hole ion their ample banks balances..

What editor will "publish and be damned" as would one of the old guys, sadly they no longer exist unless they have an army of lawyers reading and approving every written word, in case some minor inflection should breach some part of the Civil code of law.

Sorry old son, but unless you publish off shore, and with your own dosh, all you can do is write relatively mild comments on the likes of the Argus web blog.
gingertom says..... "We need some proper investigative journalism in wales we have no newspapers with any bottle to stand up for the general public. ...." I suggest there are extremely few hacks today who would dare to scribe anti establishment prose, unless there are compelling reasons such as the News of the World phone hacking matter. Newspapers and the media in general are all in the hands of wealthy owners who refuse to let the journo's rock their very stable yachts Or worse, create a small hole ion their ample banks balances.. What editor will "publish and be damned" as would one of the old guys, sadly they no longer exist unless they have an army of lawyers reading and approving every written word, in case some minor inflection should breach some part of the Civil code of law. Sorry old son, but unless you publish off shore, and with your own dosh, all you can do is write relatively mild comments on the likes of the Argus web blog. varteg1
  • Score: 0

4:22pm Wed 19 Mar 14

gingertom says...

Varteg1 I see exactly what you say but it is not morally correct is it? Yes the argus blog might be a piddling thing that everyone ignores but free speech is supposed to a human right even if MP'S, AM'S, LOCAL COUNCILLORS,BANKERS, TV, SOME NEWSPAPERS et al, don't give a ****. Whether you believe it or not I have always thought what goes around comes around and I treat people the way I wish to be treated myself so when gingertom puts her head on the pillow at night she knows she has done her best that she could for herself and others. Im not interested in PR spin
From anyone just the facts but there you go too many politicians are out for the money and golden pensions and not helping the public who elected them. Sadly, that's life today!
Varteg1 I see exactly what you say but it is not morally correct is it? Yes the argus blog might be a piddling thing that everyone ignores but free speech is supposed to a human right even if MP'S, AM'S, LOCAL COUNCILLORS,BANKERS, TV, SOME NEWSPAPERS et al, don't give a ****. Whether you believe it or not I have always thought what goes around comes around and I treat people the way I wish to be treated myself so when gingertom puts her head on the pillow at night she knows she has done her best that she could for herself and others. Im not interested in PR spin From anyone just the facts but there you go too many politicians are out for the money and golden pensions and not helping the public who elected them. Sadly, that's life today! gingertom
  • Score: 2

4:38pm Wed 19 Mar 14

gingertom says...

Likewise I will give praise and credit when it is due and therefore I congratulate the south wales argus on their effort in getting behind jacks appeal it is amazing that they are bringing an awareness to the general public of heart related sudden adult death which happens to 12 people every week in the UK between the ages of 14-35. Without such coverage the general public would never realise how common this is in the UK and that it is happening frequently.
Likewise I will give praise and credit when it is due and therefore I congratulate the south wales argus on their effort in getting behind jacks appeal it is amazing that they are bringing an awareness to the general public of heart related sudden adult death which happens to 12 people every week in the UK between the ages of 14-35. Without such coverage the general public would never realise how common this is in the UK and that it is happening frequently. gingertom
  • Score: 1

10:39pm Wed 19 Mar 14

gingertom says...

http://www.walesonli
ne.co.uk/news/wales-
news/ann-clwyd-calls
-resignation-officia
ls-6853397. How much spite has Anne Clwyd got to tolerate?
http://www.walesonli ne.co.uk/news/wales- news/ann-clwyd-calls -resignation-officia ls-6853397. How much spite has Anne Clwyd got to tolerate? gingertom
  • Score: 2

9:10am Thu 20 Mar 14

Cymru Am Beth says...

paddyparry wrote:
They can't even take criticism from their own MP. Why do they think that people can't see that there is anything wrong? Carwyn Jones should hang his head in shame. How long before they blame the UK government for this mess. Then again people voted for this bunch of Muppets.
They will probably blame Margaret Thatcher.
[quote][p][bold]paddyparry[/bold] wrote: They can't even take criticism from their own MP. Why do they think that people can't see that there is anything wrong? Carwyn Jones should hang his head in shame. How long before they blame the UK government for this mess. Then again people voted for this bunch of Muppets.[/p][/quote]They will probably blame Margaret Thatcher. Cymru Am Beth
  • Score: 6

9:12am Thu 20 Mar 14

Cymru Am Beth says...

Llanmartinangel wrote:
On the inside wrote:
And yet all the above demand evidence when anyone points out that the rich scum that floats on the top of the tory party are accused of robbing the poor to pay the rich.
And speaking of 'denial', a mindless party hack weighs in.
Quite.
And maybe if he or she got off his or her backside and did something with their lives, they may become rich too.
[quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]On the inside[/bold] wrote: And yet all the above demand evidence when anyone points out that the rich scum that floats on the top of the tory party are accused of robbing the poor to pay the rich.[/p][/quote]And speaking of 'denial', a mindless party hack weighs in.[/p][/quote]Quite. And maybe if he or she got off his or her backside and did something with their lives, they may become rich too. Cymru Am Beth
  • Score: 4

9:15am Thu 20 Mar 14

Cymru Am Beth says...

Llanmartinangel wrote:
Frankfurt wrote:
I find the NHS very good as well. But there do seem to be people who are hell bent on destroying it and if we allow them we will regret losing a service which is precious to us. Anne Clwyd has gone on and on about her husband and complains that he treated "like a battery hen" and attacked the nurses who looked after him. Yet she will not allow the report into his treatment to be made public. Why? Surely if she is really that concerned she would allow an open debate. This is part of the problem. The critics say what they like but the NHS have their hands tied behind their backs because of patient confidentiality. So we have little idea of the truth and are unlikely ever to find out.
Was the report on how many heart patients died on waiting lists not evidence? The patients stuck in ambulances outside A&E for hours on end? The ludicrous length of orthopaedic treatment waiting lists? The waits for diagnostic tests?
Exactly, 'res ipsa loquitur'.
[quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Frankfurt[/bold] wrote: I find the NHS very good as well. But there do seem to be people who are hell bent on destroying it and if we allow them we will regret losing a service which is precious to us. Anne Clwyd has gone on and on about her husband and complains that he treated "like a battery hen" and attacked the nurses who looked after him. Yet she will not allow the report into his treatment to be made public. Why? Surely if she is really that concerned she would allow an open debate. This is part of the problem. The critics say what they like but the NHS have their hands tied behind their backs because of patient confidentiality. So we have little idea of the truth and are unlikely ever to find out.[/p][/quote]Was the report on how many heart patients died on waiting lists not evidence? The patients stuck in ambulances outside A&E for hours on end? The ludicrous length of orthopaedic treatment waiting lists? The waits for diagnostic tests?[/p][/quote]Exactly, 'res ipsa loquitur'. Cymru Am Beth
  • Score: 4

11:32am Thu 20 Mar 14

Llanmartinangel says...

Cymru Am Beth wrote:
Llanmartinangel wrote:
On the inside wrote:
And yet all the above demand evidence when anyone points out that the rich scum that floats on the top of the tory party are accused of robbing the poor to pay the rich.
And speaking of 'denial', a mindless party hack weighs in.
Quite.
And maybe if he or she got off his or her backside and did something with their lives, they may become rich too.
No no no. On the Inside is a Socialist. What they want is for YOU to get off YOUR backside and earn lots of money so that THEY can take more than half of it off YOU with a 50% tax, plus NI and a mansion tax and THEN give it to THEM. And if YOU don't like that idea they will label you greedy. Happy with that?
[quote][p][bold]Cymru Am Beth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]On the inside[/bold] wrote: And yet all the above demand evidence when anyone points out that the rich scum that floats on the top of the tory party are accused of robbing the poor to pay the rich.[/p][/quote]And speaking of 'denial', a mindless party hack weighs in.[/p][/quote]Quite. And maybe if he or she got off his or her backside and did something with their lives, they may become rich too.[/p][/quote]No no no. On the Inside is a Socialist. What they want is for YOU to get off YOUR backside and earn lots of money so that THEY can take more than half of it off YOU with a 50% tax, plus NI and a mansion tax and THEN give it to THEM. And if YOU don't like that idea they will label you greedy. Happy with that? Llanmartinangel
  • Score: 9

7:56pm Thu 20 Mar 14

varteg1 says...

gingertom wrote:
Varteg1 I see exactly what you say but it is not morally correct is it? Yes the argus blog might be a piddling thing that everyone ignores but free speech is supposed to a human right even if MP'S, AM'S, LOCAL COUNCILLORS,BANKERS, TV, SOME NEWSPAPERS et al, don't give a ****. Whether you believe it or not I have always thought what goes around comes around and I treat people the way I wish to be treated myself so when gingertom puts her head on the pillow at night she knows she has done her best that she could for herself and others. Im not interested in PR spin
From anyone just the facts but there you go too many politicians are out for the money and golden pensions and not helping the public who elected them. Sadly, that's life today!
Putting my head besides yours on our mutual pillow would be a communal act, that exercise I gave up on some time ago after banging my head on the bastion walls these scum have built around themselves and their establishment, and receiving nothing but a dreadful migraine for my efforts

So, apart from stirring the blood of a few right wing, self centred, avaricious fascists who patrol these blogs, I stay firmly within the confines of my immediate surroundings despite it being often suggested I should take my arguments to the public arena and offer myself for election.

Election to what, the very thing I have been castigating for years, I am with Terry Barnfield, I prefer an anarchistic approach to my life, I give what I am compelled to, I obey that which in failing to obey would cause me personal grief, and I refrain from worrying about all that in my society which I am unable to influence, disease, the criminal behaviour of others, and most of all, the impositions placed upon me by the same society through the destructive and biased legal and administrative system we are expected to call democracy.
[quote][p][bold]gingertom[/bold] wrote: Varteg1 I see exactly what you say but it is not morally correct is it? Yes the argus blog might be a piddling thing that everyone ignores but free speech is supposed to a human right even if MP'S, AM'S, LOCAL COUNCILLORS,BANKERS, TV, SOME NEWSPAPERS et al, don't give a ****. Whether you believe it or not I have always thought what goes around comes around and I treat people the way I wish to be treated myself so when gingertom puts her head on the pillow at night she knows she has done her best that she could for herself and others. Im not interested in PR spin From anyone just the facts but there you go too many politicians are out for the money and golden pensions and not helping the public who elected them. Sadly, that's life today![/p][/quote]Putting my head besides yours on our mutual pillow would be a communal act, that exercise I gave up on some time ago after banging my head on the bastion walls these scum have built around themselves and their establishment, and receiving nothing but a dreadful migraine for my efforts So, apart from stirring the blood of a few right wing, self centred, avaricious fascists who patrol these blogs, I stay firmly within the confines of my immediate surroundings despite it being often suggested I should take my arguments to the public arena and offer myself for election. Election to what, the very thing I have been castigating for years, I am with Terry Barnfield, I prefer an anarchistic approach to my life, I give what I am compelled to, I obey that which in failing to obey would cause me personal grief, and I refrain from worrying about all that in my society which I am unable to influence, disease, the criminal behaviour of others, and most of all, the impositions placed upon me by the same society through the destructive and biased legal and administrative system we are expected to call democracy. varteg1
  • Score: -1

10:26pm Fri 21 Mar 14

Lord coed melyn says...

IM SORRY FOR ANNE.
I wish to know what happened and where and who she thinks did not do there job on the ward ?. Her husband attended who she complain to who was the ward manager on duty at the time of the said incident or incidents?
DId she speak to the director of the hospital. At the time .IT BEGGARS BELIEF THAT HE DID NOT KNOW POOR ANNE HUSBAND WAS IN HIS HOSPITAL.And was upset about ANYTHING IN HIS OR HER HOSPITAL.
She will meet carwyn jones ? IT WOULD BE LIKE HAVING R.T. IN FOR A CHEST COLD. THING WOULD BE DONE? mere mortals like us will never
checks would be done. so Rt and AND OTHER PARTIES. If you know something more and anne has told you the specifics of the complaint or complaints tell Carwyn AND US ALL. Because anne is keeping us all in wales. ALL IN THE DARK. If something was wrong she had the power at the time to move mountains that what being what you are who are duze,
But sometimes the power you thought you had is not good enuff to save the one you love.
my best wishes to Ann clwyd mp.
IM SORRY FOR ANNE. I wish to know what happened and where and who she thinks did not do there job on the ward ?. Her husband attended who she complain to who was the ward manager on duty at the time of the said incident or incidents? DId she speak to the director of the hospital. At the time .IT BEGGARS BELIEF THAT HE DID NOT KNOW POOR ANNE HUSBAND WAS IN HIS HOSPITAL.And was upset about ANYTHING IN HIS OR HER HOSPITAL. She will meet carwyn jones ? IT WOULD BE LIKE HAVING R.T. IN FOR A CHEST COLD. THING WOULD BE DONE? mere mortals like us will never checks would be done. so Rt and AND OTHER PARTIES. If you know something more and anne has told you the specifics of the complaint or complaints tell Carwyn AND US ALL. Because anne is keeping us all in wales. ALL IN THE DARK. If something was wrong she had the power at the time to move mountains that what being what you are who are duze, But sometimes the power you thought you had is not good enuff to save the one you love. my best wishes to Ann clwyd mp. Lord coed melyn
  • Score: 0

8:42am Sat 22 Mar 14

Llanmartinangel says...

http://www.dailymail
.co.uk/debate/articl
e-2586613/The-People
s-Republic-Wales-Soa
ring-NHS-waiting-lis
ts-plummeting-school
-standards-jobs-boyo
s-Red-Ed-hails-bluep
rint-Britain.html
http://www.dailymail .co.uk/debate/articl e-2586613/The-People s-Republic-Wales-Soa ring-NHS-waiting-lis ts-plummeting-school -standards-jobs-boyo s-Red-Ed-hails-bluep rint-Britain.html Llanmartinangel
  • Score: 3

9:51am Sat 22 Mar 14

scraptheWAG says...

gingertom wrote:
Llanmartinangel says...


Frankfurt wrote:

Llanmartinangel wrote:

Frankfurt wrote:
I find the NHS very good as well. But there do seem to be people who are hell bent on destroying it and if we allow them we will regret losing a service which is precious to us. Anne Clwyd has gone on and on about her husband and complains that he treated "like a battery hen" and attacked the nurses who looked after him. Yet she will not allow the report into his treatment to be made public. Why? Surely if she is really that concerned she would allow an open debate. This is part of the problem. The critics say what they like but the NHS have their hands tied behind their backs because of patient confidentiality. So we have little idea of the truth and are unlikely ever to find out.
Was the report on how many heart patients died on waiting lists not evidence? The patients stuck in ambulances outside A&E for hours on end? The ludicrous length of orthopaedic treatment waiting lists? The waits for diagnostic tests?Yes they are and there are obvious problems shown by these figures though my own experience of the NHS has that of my family has been positive. What I find irritating is people making generalised comments which can't be refuted without examining individual cases and revealing patient information. So it is very difficult for the NHS to fight back. It is also obvious that Anne Clwyd is being used for party political purposes by people in London to attack public services in Wales. These waiting lists have grown since the coalition government came into power and started to cut the money for public services. Prior to 20009 no-one was waiting longer than 36 weeks for treatment in Wales.It's a devolved issue. WAG's responsibility. They manage to find money to throw at Welsh special interest groups, airports, recruiting 400 more civil servants and refurbishing their own palace, funding commercial ventures like another film studio. It's a question of priorities.

TOTALLY AGREE WITH LLANMARTINANGEL
no its all the fault of the nasty coalition and their cuts lol
[quote][p][bold]gingertom[/bold] wrote: Llanmartinangel says... Frankfurt wrote: Llanmartinangel wrote: Frankfurt wrote: I find the NHS very good as well. But there do seem to be people who are hell bent on destroying it and if we allow them we will regret losing a service which is precious to us. Anne Clwyd has gone on and on about her husband and complains that he treated "like a battery hen" and attacked the nurses who looked after him. Yet she will not allow the report into his treatment to be made public. Why? Surely if she is really that concerned she would allow an open debate. This is part of the problem. The critics say what they like but the NHS have their hands tied behind their backs because of patient confidentiality. So we have little idea of the truth and are unlikely ever to find out. Was the report on how many heart patients died on waiting lists not evidence? The patients stuck in ambulances outside A&E for hours on end? The ludicrous length of orthopaedic treatment waiting lists? The waits for diagnostic tests?Yes they are and there are obvious problems shown by these figures though my own experience of the NHS has that of my family has been positive. What I find irritating is people making generalised comments which can't be refuted without examining individual cases and revealing patient information. So it is very difficult for the NHS to fight back. It is also obvious that Anne Clwyd is being used for party political purposes by people in London to attack public services in Wales. These waiting lists have grown since the coalition government came into power and started to cut the money for public services. Prior to 20009 no-one was waiting longer than 36 weeks for treatment in Wales.It's a devolved issue. WAG's responsibility. They manage to find money to throw at Welsh special interest groups, airports, recruiting 400 more civil servants and refurbishing their own palace, funding commercial ventures like another film studio. It's a question of priorities. TOTALLY AGREE WITH LLANMARTINANGEL[/p][/quote]no its all the fault of the nasty coalition and their cuts lol scraptheWAG
  • Score: 1

1:24pm Sat 22 Mar 14

coalpicker says...

If someone in Ann Clwyd's position is being pilloried in this fashion by no less a person than the first minister then my son in law who was unable to
get a dressing for a chest wound which was bleeding two days after being discharged from hospital because the surgery was not recorded on his GPs IT system, even had it been he was told, because the practice did not have a contract they would not supply.This is just one instance I could quote,
Carwyn should get out of his Ivory tower once in a while and have a chat to people in the real world .
If someone in Ann Clwyd's position is being pilloried in this fashion by no less a person than the first minister then my son in law who was unable to get a dressing for a chest wound which was bleeding two days after being discharged from hospital because the surgery was not recorded on his GPs IT system, even had it been he was told, because the practice did not have a contract they would not supply.This is just one instance I could quote, Carwyn should get out of his Ivory tower once in a while and have a chat to people in the real world . coalpicker
  • Score: 6

7:47am Sun 23 Mar 14

indy2012 says...

Cymru Am Beth wrote:
Llanmartinangel wrote:
Frankfurt wrote:
I find the NHS very good as well. But there do seem to be people who are hell bent on destroying it and if we allow them we will regret losing a service which is precious to us. Anne Clwyd has gone on and on about her husband and complains that he treated "like a battery hen" and attacked the nurses who looked after him. Yet she will not allow the report into his treatment to be made public. Why? Surely if she is really that concerned she would allow an open debate. This is part of the problem. The critics say what they like but the NHS have their hands tied behind their backs because of patient confidentiality. So we have little idea of the truth and are unlikely ever to find out.
Was the report on how many heart patients died on waiting lists not evidence? The patients stuck in ambulances outside A&E for hours on end? The ludicrous length of orthopaedic treatment waiting lists? The waits for diagnostic tests?
Exactly, 'res ipsa loquitur'.
Add...... people from Wales getting an English address so that they can get cancer drugs which are not available if you reside in Wales.
[quote][p][bold]Cymru Am Beth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Frankfurt[/bold] wrote: I find the NHS very good as well. But there do seem to be people who are hell bent on destroying it and if we allow them we will regret losing a service which is precious to us. Anne Clwyd has gone on and on about her husband and complains that he treated "like a battery hen" and attacked the nurses who looked after him. Yet she will not allow the report into his treatment to be made public. Why? Surely if she is really that concerned she would allow an open debate. This is part of the problem. The critics say what they like but the NHS have their hands tied behind their backs because of patient confidentiality. So we have little idea of the truth and are unlikely ever to find out.[/p][/quote]Was the report on how many heart patients died on waiting lists not evidence? The patients stuck in ambulances outside A&E for hours on end? The ludicrous length of orthopaedic treatment waiting lists? The waits for diagnostic tests?[/p][/quote]Exactly, 'res ipsa loquitur'.[/p][/quote]Add...... people from Wales getting an English address so that they can get cancer drugs which are not available if you reside in Wales. indy2012
  • Score: 7

12:43pm Mon 24 Mar 14

endthelies says...

I think the NHS is in crisis right across the country, not just in Wales. England isn't really any better.
I think the NHS is in crisis right across the country, not just in Wales. England isn't really any better. endthelies
  • Score: -3

12:55pm Mon 24 Mar 14

endthelies says...

scraptheWAG wrote:
gingertom wrote:
Llanmartinangel says...


Frankfurt wrote:

Llanmartinangel wrote:

Frankfurt wrote:
I find the NHS very good as well. But there do seem to be people who are hell bent on destroying it and if we allow them we will regret losing a service which is precious to us. Anne Clwyd has gone on and on about her husband and complains that he treated "like a battery hen" and attacked the nurses who looked after him. Yet she will not allow the report into his treatment to be made public. Why? Surely if she is really that concerned she would allow an open debate. This is part of the problem. The critics say what they like but the NHS have their hands tied behind their backs because of patient confidentiality. So we have little idea of the truth and are unlikely ever to find out.
Was the report on how many heart patients died on waiting lists not evidence? The patients stuck in ambulances outside A&E for hours on end? The ludicrous length of orthopaedic treatment waiting lists? The waits for diagnostic tests?Yes they are and there are obvious problems shown by these figures though my own experience of the NHS has that of my family has been positive. What I find irritating is people making generalised comments which can't be refuted without examining individual cases and revealing patient information. So it is very difficult for the NHS to fight back. It is also obvious that Anne Clwyd is being used for party political purposes by people in London to attack public services in Wales. These waiting lists have grown since the coalition government came into power and started to cut the money for public services. Prior to 20009 no-one was waiting longer than 36 weeks for treatment in Wales.It's a devolved issue. WAG's responsibility. They manage to find money to throw at Welsh special interest groups, airports, recruiting 400 more civil servants and refurbishing their own palace, funding commercial ventures like another film studio. It's a question of priorities.

TOTALLY AGREE WITH LLANMARTINANGEL
no its all the fault of the nasty coalition and their cuts lol
You're quite right scrap. It is the fault of the coalition government cuts.
[quote][p][bold]scraptheWAG[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]gingertom[/bold] wrote: Llanmartinangel says... Frankfurt wrote: Llanmartinangel wrote: Frankfurt wrote: I find the NHS very good as well. But there do seem to be people who are hell bent on destroying it and if we allow them we will regret losing a service which is precious to us. Anne Clwyd has gone on and on about her husband and complains that he treated "like a battery hen" and attacked the nurses who looked after him. Yet she will not allow the report into his treatment to be made public. Why? Surely if she is really that concerned she would allow an open debate. This is part of the problem. The critics say what they like but the NHS have their hands tied behind their backs because of patient confidentiality. So we have little idea of the truth and are unlikely ever to find out. Was the report on how many heart patients died on waiting lists not evidence? The patients stuck in ambulances outside A&E for hours on end? The ludicrous length of orthopaedic treatment waiting lists? The waits for diagnostic tests?Yes they are and there are obvious problems shown by these figures though my own experience of the NHS has that of my family has been positive. What I find irritating is people making generalised comments which can't be refuted without examining individual cases and revealing patient information. So it is very difficult for the NHS to fight back. It is also obvious that Anne Clwyd is being used for party political purposes by people in London to attack public services in Wales. These waiting lists have grown since the coalition government came into power and started to cut the money for public services. Prior to 20009 no-one was waiting longer than 36 weeks for treatment in Wales.It's a devolved issue. WAG's responsibility. They manage to find money to throw at Welsh special interest groups, airports, recruiting 400 more civil servants and refurbishing their own palace, funding commercial ventures like another film studio. It's a question of priorities. TOTALLY AGREE WITH LLANMARTINANGEL[/p][/quote]no its all the fault of the nasty coalition and their cuts lol[/p][/quote]You're quite right scrap. It is the fault of the coalition government cuts. endthelies
  • Score: -4

1:30pm Mon 24 Mar 14

Llanmartinangel says...

endthelies wrote:
scraptheWAG wrote:
gingertom wrote:
Llanmartinangel says...


Frankfurt wrote:

Llanmartinangel wrote:

Frankfurt wrote:
I find the NHS very good as well. But there do seem to be people who are hell bent on destroying it and if we allow them we will regret losing a service which is precious to us. Anne Clwyd has gone on and on about her husband and complains that he treated "like a battery hen" and attacked the nurses who looked after him. Yet she will not allow the report into his treatment to be made public. Why? Surely if she is really that concerned she would allow an open debate. This is part of the problem. The critics say what they like but the NHS have their hands tied behind their backs because of patient confidentiality. So we have little idea of the truth and are unlikely ever to find out.
Was the report on how many heart patients died on waiting lists not evidence? The patients stuck in ambulances outside A&E for hours on end? The ludicrous length of orthopaedic treatment waiting lists? The waits for diagnostic tests?Yes they are and there are obvious problems shown by these figures though my own experience of the NHS has that of my family has been positive. What I find irritating is people making generalised comments which can't be refuted without examining individual cases and revealing patient information. So it is very difficult for the NHS to fight back. It is also obvious that Anne Clwyd is being used for party political purposes by people in London to attack public services in Wales. These waiting lists have grown since the coalition government came into power and started to cut the money for public services. Prior to 20009 no-one was waiting longer than 36 weeks for treatment in Wales.It's a devolved issue. WAG's responsibility. They manage to find money to throw at Welsh special interest groups, airports, recruiting 400 more civil servants and refurbishing their own palace, funding commercial ventures like another film studio. It's a question of priorities.

TOTALLY AGREE WITH LLANMARTINANGEL
no its all the fault of the nasty coalition and their cuts lol
You're quite right scrap. It is the fault of the coalition government cuts.
Which I guess highlights the dangers of people who don't understand the concept of devolution being allowed to vote at all.
[quote][p][bold]endthelies[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]scraptheWAG[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]gingertom[/bold] wrote: Llanmartinangel says... Frankfurt wrote: Llanmartinangel wrote: Frankfurt wrote: I find the NHS very good as well. But there do seem to be people who are hell bent on destroying it and if we allow them we will regret losing a service which is precious to us. Anne Clwyd has gone on and on about her husband and complains that he treated "like a battery hen" and attacked the nurses who looked after him. Yet she will not allow the report into his treatment to be made public. Why? Surely if she is really that concerned she would allow an open debate. This is part of the problem. The critics say what they like but the NHS have their hands tied behind their backs because of patient confidentiality. So we have little idea of the truth and are unlikely ever to find out. Was the report on how many heart patients died on waiting lists not evidence? The patients stuck in ambulances outside A&E for hours on end? The ludicrous length of orthopaedic treatment waiting lists? The waits for diagnostic tests?Yes they are and there are obvious problems shown by these figures though my own experience of the NHS has that of my family has been positive. What I find irritating is people making generalised comments which can't be refuted without examining individual cases and revealing patient information. So it is very difficult for the NHS to fight back. It is also obvious that Anne Clwyd is being used for party political purposes by people in London to attack public services in Wales. These waiting lists have grown since the coalition government came into power and started to cut the money for public services. Prior to 20009 no-one was waiting longer than 36 weeks for treatment in Wales.It's a devolved issue. WAG's responsibility. They manage to find money to throw at Welsh special interest groups, airports, recruiting 400 more civil servants and refurbishing their own palace, funding commercial ventures like another film studio. It's a question of priorities. TOTALLY AGREE WITH LLANMARTINANGEL[/p][/quote]no its all the fault of the nasty coalition and their cuts lol[/p][/quote]You're quite right scrap. It is the fault of the coalition government cuts.[/p][/quote]Which I guess highlights the dangers of people who don't understand the concept of devolution being allowed to vote at all. Llanmartinangel
  • Score: 5

1:57pm Mon 24 Mar 14

Cymru Am Beth says...

Llanmartinangel wrote:
endthelies wrote:
scraptheWAG wrote:
gingertom wrote:
Llanmartinangel says...


Frankfurt wrote:

Llanmartinangel wrote:

Frankfurt wrote:
I find the NHS very good as well. But there do seem to be people who are hell bent on destroying it and if we allow them we will regret losing a service which is precious to us. Anne Clwyd has gone on and on about her husband and complains that he treated "like a battery hen" and attacked the nurses who looked after him. Yet she will not allow the report into his treatment to be made public. Why? Surely if she is really that concerned she would allow an open debate. This is part of the problem. The critics say what they like but the NHS have their hands tied behind their backs because of patient confidentiality. So we have little idea of the truth and are unlikely ever to find out.
Was the report on how many heart patients died on waiting lists not evidence? The patients stuck in ambulances outside A&E for hours on end? The ludicrous length of orthopaedic treatment waiting lists? The waits for diagnostic tests?Yes they are and there are obvious problems shown by these figures though my own experience of the NHS has that of my family has been positive. What I find irritating is people making generalised comments which can't be refuted without examining individual cases and revealing patient information. So it is very difficult for the NHS to fight back. It is also obvious that Anne Clwyd is being used for party political purposes by people in London to attack public services in Wales. These waiting lists have grown since the coalition government came into power and started to cut the money for public services. Prior to 20009 no-one was waiting longer than 36 weeks for treatment in Wales.It's a devolved issue. WAG's responsibility. They manage to find money to throw at Welsh special interest groups, airports, recruiting 400 more civil servants and refurbishing their own palace, funding commercial ventures like another film studio. It's a question of priorities.

TOTALLY AGREE WITH LLANMARTINANGEL
no its all the fault of the nasty coalition and their cuts lol
You're quite right scrap. It is the fault of the coalition government cuts.
Which I guess highlights the dangers of people who don't understand the concept of devolution being allowed to vote at all.
As Scrap the Wag so eloquently put it before.
I Vote Labour as my father voted Labour.
[quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]endthelies[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]scraptheWAG[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]gingertom[/bold] wrote: Llanmartinangel says... Frankfurt wrote: Llanmartinangel wrote: Frankfurt wrote: I find the NHS very good as well. But there do seem to be people who are hell bent on destroying it and if we allow them we will regret losing a service which is precious to us. Anne Clwyd has gone on and on about her husband and complains that he treated "like a battery hen" and attacked the nurses who looked after him. Yet she will not allow the report into his treatment to be made public. Why? Surely if she is really that concerned she would allow an open debate. This is part of the problem. The critics say what they like but the NHS have their hands tied behind their backs because of patient confidentiality. So we have little idea of the truth and are unlikely ever to find out. Was the report on how many heart patients died on waiting lists not evidence? The patients stuck in ambulances outside A&E for hours on end? The ludicrous length of orthopaedic treatment waiting lists? The waits for diagnostic tests?Yes they are and there are obvious problems shown by these figures though my own experience of the NHS has that of my family has been positive. What I find irritating is people making generalised comments which can't be refuted without examining individual cases and revealing patient information. So it is very difficult for the NHS to fight back. It is also obvious that Anne Clwyd is being used for party political purposes by people in London to attack public services in Wales. These waiting lists have grown since the coalition government came into power and started to cut the money for public services. Prior to 20009 no-one was waiting longer than 36 weeks for treatment in Wales.It's a devolved issue. WAG's responsibility. They manage to find money to throw at Welsh special interest groups, airports, recruiting 400 more civil servants and refurbishing their own palace, funding commercial ventures like another film studio. It's a question of priorities. TOTALLY AGREE WITH LLANMARTINANGEL[/p][/quote]no its all the fault of the nasty coalition and their cuts lol[/p][/quote]You're quite right scrap. It is the fault of the coalition government cuts.[/p][/quote]Which I guess highlights the dangers of people who don't understand the concept of devolution being allowed to vote at all.[/p][/quote]As Scrap the Wag so eloquently put it before. I Vote Labour as my father voted Labour. Cymru Am Beth
  • Score: 5

4:58pm Mon 24 Mar 14

endthelies says...

Glad to hear it cymru :)
Glad to hear it cymru :) endthelies
  • Score: -5

5:04pm Mon 24 Mar 14

Llanmartinangel says...

endthelies wrote:
Glad to hear it cymru :)
The 'nodding donkey' attitude to voting? The suffragettes would be thrilled.
[quote][p][bold]endthelies[/bold] wrote: Glad to hear it cymru :)[/p][/quote]The 'nodding donkey' attitude to voting? The suffragettes would be thrilled. Llanmartinangel
  • Score: 3

5:14pm Mon 24 Mar 14

coalpicker says...

gingertom wrote:
Varteg1 I see exactly what you say but it is not morally correct is it? Yes the argus blog might be a piddling thing that everyone ignores but free speech is supposed to a human right even if MP'S, AM'S, LOCAL COUNCILLORS,BANKERS, TV, SOME NEWSPAPERS et al, don't give a ****. Whether you believe it or not I have always thought what goes around comes around and I treat people the way I wish to be treated myself so when gingertom puts her head on the pillow at night she knows she has done her best that she could for herself and others. Im not interested in PR spin
From anyone just the facts but there you go too many politicians are out for the money and golden pensions and not helping the public who elected them. Sadly, that's life today!
To concur with your point have you noted that another Kinnock is about to get a ticket from wales to board the gravy train. As the son of the man who was going to sort out the house of lords and married to the danish PM young Mr Kinnock is about to emulate is old man trying to bring down the lords by
wearing out the seats in the members room and restaurant .
[quote][p][bold]gingertom[/bold] wrote: Varteg1 I see exactly what you say but it is not morally correct is it? Yes the argus blog might be a piddling thing that everyone ignores but free speech is supposed to a human right even if MP'S, AM'S, LOCAL COUNCILLORS,BANKERS, TV, SOME NEWSPAPERS et al, don't give a ****. Whether you believe it or not I have always thought what goes around comes around and I treat people the way I wish to be treated myself so when gingertom puts her head on the pillow at night she knows she has done her best that she could for herself and others. Im not interested in PR spin From anyone just the facts but there you go too many politicians are out for the money and golden pensions and not helping the public who elected them. Sadly, that's life today![/p][/quote]To concur with your point have you noted that another Kinnock is about to get a ticket from wales to board the gravy train. As the son of the man who was going to sort out the house of lords and married to the danish PM young Mr Kinnock is about to emulate is old man trying to bring down the lords by wearing out the seats in the members room and restaurant . coalpicker
  • Score: 4

6:40pm Mon 24 Mar 14

merlin the silure says...

I know-lets not improve a failing health service in Wales-lets buy a lame duck airport instead .
I know-lets not improve a failing health service in Wales-lets buy a lame duck airport instead . merlin the silure
  • Score: 0

6:56pm Mon 24 Mar 14

endthelies says...

Llanmartinangel wrote:
endthelies wrote:
Glad to hear it cymru :)
The 'nodding donkey' attitude to voting? The suffragettes would be thrilled.
Yup and it would seem that Cymru, by his/her own admission is one of them. I myself vote for who I decide is in MY opinion, no one elses, deserving of that vote. It seems to me that you are also sheep to the Tory party.
[quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]endthelies[/bold] wrote: Glad to hear it cymru :)[/p][/quote]The 'nodding donkey' attitude to voting? The suffragettes would be thrilled.[/p][/quote]Yup and it would seem that Cymru, by his/her own admission is one of them. I myself vote for who I decide is in MY opinion, no one elses, deserving of that vote. It seems to me that you are also sheep to the Tory party. endthelies
  • Score: -2

11:29am Tue 25 Mar 14

Cymru Am Beth says...

endthelies wrote:
Llanmartinangel wrote:
endthelies wrote:
Glad to hear it cymru :)
The 'nodding donkey' attitude to voting? The suffragettes would be thrilled.
Yup and it would seem that Cymru, by his/her own admission is one of them. I myself vote for who I decide is in MY opinion, no one elses, deserving of that vote. It seems to me that you are also sheep to the Tory party.
Absolutely not.
It was said 'tongue in cheek'.
[quote][p][bold]endthelies[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]endthelies[/bold] wrote: Glad to hear it cymru :)[/p][/quote]The 'nodding donkey' attitude to voting? The suffragettes would be thrilled.[/p][/quote]Yup and it would seem that Cymru, by his/her own admission is one of them. I myself vote for who I decide is in MY opinion, no one elses, deserving of that vote. It seems to me that you are also sheep to the Tory party.[/p][/quote]Absolutely not. It was said 'tongue in cheek'. Cymru Am Beth
  • Score: 0

11:41am Tue 25 Mar 14

endthelies says...

Cymru Am Beth wrote:
endthelies wrote:
Llanmartinangel wrote:
endthelies wrote:
Glad to hear it cymru :)
The 'nodding donkey' attitude to voting? The suffragettes would be thrilled.
Yup and it would seem that Cymru, by his/her own admission is one of them. I myself vote for who I decide is in MY opinion, no one elses, deserving of that vote. It seems to me that you are also sheep to the Tory party.
Absolutely not.
It was said 'tongue in cheek'.
you don't say !!
[quote][p][bold]Cymru Am Beth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]endthelies[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]endthelies[/bold] wrote: Glad to hear it cymru :)[/p][/quote]The 'nodding donkey' attitude to voting? The suffragettes would be thrilled.[/p][/quote]Yup and it would seem that Cymru, by his/her own admission is one of them. I myself vote for who I decide is in MY opinion, no one elses, deserving of that vote. It seems to me that you are also sheep to the Tory party.[/p][/quote]Absolutely not. It was said 'tongue in cheek'.[/p][/quote]you don't say !! endthelies
  • Score: -2

6:15pm Tue 25 Mar 14

Nig says...

Cymru Am Beth wrote:
paddyparry wrote:
They can't even take criticism from their own MP. Why do they think that people can't see that there is anything wrong? Carwyn Jones should hang his head in shame. How long before they blame the UK government for this mess. Then again people voted for this bunch of Muppets.
They will probably blame Margaret Thatcher.
they need to stop wasting hundreds of Millions of pounds a year on welsh, and put services first , you could employ a lot of Doctors and nurses with the money spent on a tiny minority of people. The assembly employs interpreters to translate welsh at a cost of £35K a year the total cost across local government and the bay is £300 million a year , its Wales biggest growth industry that produces NOTHING
[quote][p][bold]Cymru Am Beth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]paddyparry[/bold] wrote: They can't even take criticism from their own MP. Why do they think that people can't see that there is anything wrong? Carwyn Jones should hang his head in shame. How long before they blame the UK government for this mess. Then again people voted for this bunch of Muppets.[/p][/quote]They will probably blame Margaret Thatcher.[/p][/quote]they need to stop wasting hundreds of Millions of pounds a year on welsh, and put services first , you could employ a lot of Doctors and nurses with the money spent on a tiny minority of people. The assembly employs interpreters to translate welsh at a cost of £35K a year the total cost across local government and the bay is £300 million a year , its Wales biggest growth industry that produces NOTHING Nig
  • Score: 0

6:17pm Tue 25 Mar 14

Nig says...

Doctors do not come to Wales as the Assembly is not interested on how good a Dr you are, they just want know if you can speak welsh ,
Doctors do not come to Wales as the Assembly is not interested on how good a Dr you are, they just want know if you can speak welsh , Nig
  • Score: 0

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