Newport council can’t provide service in Welsh

South Wales Argus: Newport council can’t provide service in Welsh Newport council can’t provide service in Welsh

IT WOULD be impossible for Newport council to deliver telephone services equally in Welsh and English, a council document has claimed.

The authority has made the comments in a response, yet to be signed off by cabinet, to the Welsh Language Commissioner’s investigation into proposed standards for the language in councils.

The authority has said that a number of the standards wouldn’t be reasonable or proportionate – including nine that cover how telephone calls are handled.

These include that incoming calls must be dealt with in Welsh by the switchboard when the service is open, and says that outgoing phone calls must be conducted in Welsh where the language preference of the person concerned has been recorded that they want to receive such calls.

But Newport council says it wouldn’t be reasonable or proportionate for those standards to be applied to the authority.

“Whilst Newport City Council will make every effort to meet this standard current staff Welsh language skills would make it impossible to deliver an equal offer in Welsh and English,” the response says.

“The prospects to rectify this situation are very limited given the demographics of our travel to work area and the current financial situation which significantly limits the number of external vacancies.”

The response does say that proposed standards relating to helplines and call centres – including that incoming calls to helplines and call centres must be dealt with in Welsh when the service is open – would be reasonable and proportionate.

But it is believed that the organisation wouldn’t be able to currently provide automated telephone response systems completely in Welsh.

Proposals for personal meetings to be conducted in Welsh where requested were also considered unreasonable, as was a standard that would require public meetings to be simultaneously translated.

Asked for information on any assessment of current opportunities available to use the Welsh language, the authority says: “We have not undertaken analysis of the current opportunities to use the language either within the organisation or across Newport.”

The Welsh Language Commissioner is expected to report back on the standards to Welsh ministers in May with recommendations on how the standards should apply to each public body.

It would then be up to the Assembly to pass draft regulations over the issue.

Senior councillors in Newport council’s cabinet will vote on whether the response should be submitted to the investigation when they meet today.

UPDATE 12.20pm: Newport council's Labour cabinet agreed the proposed consultation response this morning.

The response was passed with little discussion - however Cllr Ray Truman, deputy leader, expressed concernes over how many of the standards would come into fruition, and over their practicality and financial implications.

Comments (32)

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11:10am Thu 17 Apr 14

DDDog1 says...

Newport's not a Welsh speaking town so why waste the money anyway?
Newport's not a Welsh speaking town so why waste the money anyway? DDDog1
  • Score: 33

11:50am Thu 17 Apr 14

-trigg- says...

How many thousands will the council have spent on this purely to tick a box for the language commissioner which could be better spent elsewhere?

I would be interested to know if there is anyone at all in Newport who can speak fluent Welsh but is unable to speak English. We don't have any visitors from Patagonia do we?
How many thousands will the council have spent on this purely to tick a box for the language commissioner which could be better spent elsewhere? I would be interested to know if there is anyone at all in Newport who can speak fluent Welsh but is unable to speak English. We don't have any visitors from Patagonia do we? -trigg-
  • Score: 21

12:03pm Thu 17 Apr 14

John Nicholson says...

At last one brave council will see reason and cut the spending of public money providing Welsh Language services to people who already speak English. Public money should not be used to promote or force people to use a minority language. At the same time, nothing should prevent any two people from communicating together in any language they both share.
At last one brave council will see reason and cut the spending of public money providing Welsh Language services to people who already speak English. Public money should not be used to promote or force people to use a minority language. At the same time, nothing should prevent any two people from communicating together in any language they both share. John Nicholson
  • Score: 26

12:52pm Thu 17 Apr 14

Sometimes says...

The sooner South East Wales declares independence from the WAG the better, why should the majority have to put up with these crack pot decisions that only favour a few at the expense of other services like Education and Health.
The sooner South East Wales declares independence from the WAG the better, why should the majority have to put up with these crack pot decisions that only favour a few at the expense of other services like Education and Health. Sometimes
  • Score: 27

1:12pm Thu 17 Apr 14

John Nicholson says...

-trigg- wrote:
How many thousands will the council have spent on this purely to tick a box for the language commissioner which could be better spent elsewhere?

I would be interested to know if there is anyone at all in Newport who can speak fluent Welsh but is unable to speak English. We don't have any visitors from Patagonia do we?
Welsh Councils do not have any duty to serve the people of patagonia - they do have a duty to serve the people of their own County.
[quote][p][bold]-trigg-[/bold] wrote: How many thousands will the council have spent on this purely to tick a box for the language commissioner which could be better spent elsewhere? I would be interested to know if there is anyone at all in Newport who can speak fluent Welsh but is unable to speak English. We don't have any visitors from Patagonia do we?[/p][/quote]Welsh Councils do not have any duty to serve the people of patagonia - they do have a duty to serve the people of their own County. John Nicholson
  • Score: 8

1:18pm Thu 17 Apr 14

Royal42 says...

You want to compare the standard of English in Newport schools with schools in Gwynedd and then decide what you really want. Oh sorry, you don't have a choice, there is only one direction your education system is going and that is down. This will be followed by inward investment, again look at Gwynedd then the problems recruiting senior hospital staff and keeping high standards.
These are all facts and just a couple of examples: premature babies from South Gwynedd have to travel to England because we can't recruit staff who will agree to learn Welsh or move their young families to an area where they don't have a choice of an English education. Don't get me wrong, I support the Welsh language, my 6 year old grandson is one of the very few simultaneous bi-linguals in Gwynedd but they have not started to teach him English in school and they won't to any degree until he is almost eight, his English education is down to family but the school will get the credit.
You want to compare the standard of English in Newport schools with schools in Gwynedd and then decide what you really want. Oh sorry, you don't have a choice, there is only one direction your education system is going and that is down. This will be followed by inward investment, again look at Gwynedd then the problems recruiting senior hospital staff and keeping high standards. These are all facts and just a couple of examples: premature babies from South Gwynedd have to travel to England because we can't recruit staff who will agree to learn Welsh or move their young families to an area where they don't have a choice of an English education. Don't get me wrong, I support the Welsh language, my 6 year old grandson is one of the very few simultaneous bi-linguals in Gwynedd but they have not started to teach him English in school and they won't to any degree until he is almost eight, his English education is down to family but the school will get the credit. Royal42
  • Score: 13

2:02pm Thu 17 Apr 14

varteg1 says...

John Nicholson wrote:
-trigg- wrote:
How many thousands will the council have spent on this purely to tick a box for the language commissioner which could be better spent elsewhere?

I would be interested to know if there is anyone at all in Newport who can speak fluent Welsh but is unable to speak English. We don't have any visitors from Patagonia do we?
Welsh Councils do not have any duty to serve the people of patagonia - they do have a duty to serve the people of their own County.
Depends on how you interpret the word 'duty'.

I interpret it as doing something that is a necessity, I do not see it as an imposed requirement to expend finances paid by the ratepayer on an invented 'communal service' that was not wanted in the first place.
[quote][p][bold]John Nicholson[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]-trigg-[/bold] wrote: How many thousands will the council have spent on this purely to tick a box for the language commissioner which could be better spent elsewhere? I would be interested to know if there is anyone at all in Newport who can speak fluent Welsh but is unable to speak English. We don't have any visitors from Patagonia do we?[/p][/quote]Welsh Councils do not have any duty to serve the people of patagonia - they do have a duty to serve the people of their own County.[/p][/quote]Depends on how you interpret the word 'duty'. I interpret it as doing something that is a necessity, I do not see it as an imposed requirement to expend finances paid by the ratepayer on an invented 'communal service' that was not wanted in the first place. varteg1
  • Score: 17

2:15pm Thu 17 Apr 14

-trigg- says...

John Nicholson wrote:
-trigg- wrote: How many thousands will the council have spent on this purely to tick a box for the language commissioner which could be better spent elsewhere? I would be interested to know if there is anyone at all in Newport who can speak fluent Welsh but is unable to speak English. We don't have any visitors from Patagonia do we?
Welsh Councils do not have any duty to serve the people of patagonia - they do have a duty to serve the people of their own County.
Just to clarify, Patagonia was mentioned purely as a region where a significant proportion of the population speak Welsh but not English.
[quote][p][bold]John Nicholson[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]-trigg-[/bold] wrote: How many thousands will the council have spent on this purely to tick a box for the language commissioner which could be better spent elsewhere? I would be interested to know if there is anyone at all in Newport who can speak fluent Welsh but is unable to speak English. We don't have any visitors from Patagonia do we?[/p][/quote]Welsh Councils do not have any duty to serve the people of patagonia - they do have a duty to serve the people of their own County.[/p][/quote]Just to clarify, Patagonia was mentioned purely as a region where a significant proportion of the population speak Welsh but not English. -trigg-
  • Score: 12

3:06pm Thu 17 Apr 14

real comment says...

WELL DONE NEWPORT COUNCIL. IT IS ALL JUST A WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY. TOO MANY PEOPLE HAVE INSULAR THINKING
WELL DONE NEWPORT COUNCIL. IT IS ALL JUST A WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY. TOO MANY PEOPLE HAVE INSULAR THINKING real comment
  • Score: 10

3:25pm Thu 17 Apr 14

Llanmartinangel says...

Why would they? National Savings stopped their Welsh language service after only 107 people in the whole of Wales elected to be dealt with through the medium of Welsh. It was costing £900 per customer. Barclays revealed that only 3% of people press the Welsh option button on cash machines. If that's the average take up for the whole of Wales then the number of speakers in Newport must be negligible if that.
Why would they? National Savings stopped their Welsh language service after only 107 people in the whole of Wales elected to be dealt with through the medium of Welsh. It was costing £900 per customer. Barclays revealed that only 3% of people press the Welsh option button on cash machines. If that's the average take up for the whole of Wales then the number of speakers in Newport must be negligible if that. Llanmartinangel
  • Score: 20

3:52pm Thu 17 Apr 14

Daffodil29 says...

O'r diwedd, mae Cyngor Dinas Casnewydd yn cymryd eu dyletswyddau o ddifrif. I ni'r Cymry Cymraeg a'r dysgwyr sydd yn byw y ddinas mae'n hen bryd ein bod yn cael y gwasanaethau yn ein mamiaith. Mae cydnabod hyn yn gyhoeddus yn gam allweddol. Mae nawr angen gweithredu.
Dwi wedi blino gwrando ar rethreg negyddol "cost ychwnaegol" a "gwastraff arian". Mae Cymru yn wlad ddwyieithog lle mae'r Gymraeg a'r Saesneg yn gyfartal. Mae Casnewydd yng Nghymru ac felly mae'r ddwy iaith i fod ar gael i BAWB yng Nghasnewydd. Trueni fod yna bobl o hyd ddim yn gweld gwerth dwyieithrwydd ond fe gawn weld pan fydd y Gymraeg yn ennill tir yn y ddinas arbennig hon. Mae Casnewydd yn ddinas hollol unigryw. Mae iddi ddiwylliant a threftadaeth hollol unigryw a dwi'n falch iawn o fod yn ddinesydd yma.
O'r diwedd, mae Cyngor Dinas Casnewydd yn cymryd eu dyletswyddau o ddifrif. I ni'r Cymry Cymraeg a'r dysgwyr sydd yn byw y ddinas mae'n hen bryd ein bod yn cael y gwasanaethau yn ein mamiaith. Mae cydnabod hyn yn gyhoeddus yn gam allweddol. Mae nawr angen gweithredu. Dwi wedi blino gwrando ar rethreg negyddol "cost ychwnaegol" a "gwastraff arian". Mae Cymru yn wlad ddwyieithog lle mae'r Gymraeg a'r Saesneg yn gyfartal. Mae Casnewydd yng Nghymru ac felly mae'r ddwy iaith i fod ar gael i BAWB yng Nghasnewydd. Trueni fod yna bobl o hyd ddim yn gweld gwerth dwyieithrwydd ond fe gawn weld pan fydd y Gymraeg yn ennill tir yn y ddinas arbennig hon. Mae Casnewydd yn ddinas hollol unigryw. Mae iddi ddiwylliant a threftadaeth hollol unigryw a dwi'n falch iawn o fod yn ddinesydd yma. Daffodil29
  • Score: -17

3:56pm Thu 17 Apr 14

The Red Claw says...

Llanmartinangel wrote:
Why would they? National Savings stopped their Welsh language service after only 107 people in the whole of Wales elected to be dealt with through the medium of Welsh. It was costing £900 per customer. Barclays revealed that only 3% of people press the Welsh option button on cash machines. If that's the average take up for the whole of Wales then the number of speakers in Newport must be negligible if that.
Well said. Even the most ardent language extremist will find it hard to argue with the facts.
[quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: Why would they? National Savings stopped their Welsh language service after only 107 people in the whole of Wales elected to be dealt with through the medium of Welsh. It was costing £900 per customer. Barclays revealed that only 3% of people press the Welsh option button on cash machines. If that's the average take up for the whole of Wales then the number of speakers in Newport must be negligible if that.[/p][/quote]Well said. Even the most ardent language extremist will find it hard to argue with the facts. The Red Claw
  • Score: 16

4:01pm Thu 17 Apr 14

The Red Claw says...

Daffodil29 wrote:
O'r diwedd, mae Cyngor Dinas Casnewydd yn cymryd eu dyletswyddau o ddifrif. I ni'r Cymry Cymraeg a'r dysgwyr sydd yn byw y ddinas mae'n hen bryd ein bod yn cael y gwasanaethau yn ein mamiaith. Mae cydnabod hyn yn gyhoeddus yn gam allweddol. Mae nawr angen gweithredu.
Dwi wedi blino gwrando ar rethreg negyddol "cost ychwnaegol" a "gwastraff arian". Mae Cymru yn wlad ddwyieithog lle mae'r Gymraeg a'r Saesneg yn gyfartal. Mae Casnewydd yng Nghymru ac felly mae'r ddwy iaith i fod ar gael i BAWB yng Nghasnewydd. Trueni fod yna bobl o hyd ddim yn gweld gwerth dwyieithrwydd ond fe gawn weld pan fydd y Gymraeg yn ennill tir yn y ddinas arbennig hon. Mae Casnewydd yn ddinas hollol unigryw. Mae iddi ddiwylliant a threftadaeth hollol unigryw a dwi'n falch iawn o fod yn ddinesydd yma.
I commend both your tenacity and optimism for wasting five minutes of your life typing the above on the comment forum of a South East Wales news publication.
[quote][p][bold]Daffodil29[/bold] wrote: O'r diwedd, mae Cyngor Dinas Casnewydd yn cymryd eu dyletswyddau o ddifrif. I ni'r Cymry Cymraeg a'r dysgwyr sydd yn byw y ddinas mae'n hen bryd ein bod yn cael y gwasanaethau yn ein mamiaith. Mae cydnabod hyn yn gyhoeddus yn gam allweddol. Mae nawr angen gweithredu. Dwi wedi blino gwrando ar rethreg negyddol "cost ychwnaegol" a "gwastraff arian". Mae Cymru yn wlad ddwyieithog lle mae'r Gymraeg a'r Saesneg yn gyfartal. Mae Casnewydd yng Nghymru ac felly mae'r ddwy iaith i fod ar gael i BAWB yng Nghasnewydd. Trueni fod yna bobl o hyd ddim yn gweld gwerth dwyieithrwydd ond fe gawn weld pan fydd y Gymraeg yn ennill tir yn y ddinas arbennig hon. Mae Casnewydd yn ddinas hollol unigryw. Mae iddi ddiwylliant a threftadaeth hollol unigryw a dwi'n falch iawn o fod yn ddinesydd yma.[/p][/quote]I commend both your tenacity and optimism for wasting five minutes of your life typing the above on the comment forum of a South East Wales news publication. The Red Claw
  • Score: 9

4:10pm Thu 17 Apr 14

Daffodil29 says...

Diolch Crafanc Goch. Nid ywr Gymraeg yn wastraff amser i mi o gwbwl. Mae'n ffordd o fyw.
Diolch Crafanc Goch. Nid ywr Gymraeg yn wastraff amser i mi o gwbwl. Mae'n ffordd o fyw. Daffodil29
  • Score: -12

4:19pm Thu 17 Apr 14

Daffodil29 says...

Diolch hefyd wrth gwrs i'r Argus am y cyfle i ysgrifennu'n gyhoeddus yn fy iaith fy hun, mewn papur newyddion yn y De Ddwyrain. Och a gwae! Pwy feddylia'! Rhywun yn siarad Cymraeg yng Nghasnewydd!
Syniad am golofn newydd i'r golygydd efallai?
Diddorol i'm sylwad uchod dderbyn dau fawdyn i lawr...hyd yn hyn. A ddeallodd y ddau fawdyn i lawr fy neges 'sgwn i?
Diolch hefyd wrth gwrs i'r Argus am y cyfle i ysgrifennu'n gyhoeddus yn fy iaith fy hun, mewn papur newyddion yn y De Ddwyrain. Och a gwae! Pwy feddylia'! Rhywun yn siarad Cymraeg yng Nghasnewydd! Syniad am golofn newydd i'r golygydd efallai? Diddorol i'm sylwad uchod dderbyn dau fawdyn i lawr...hyd yn hyn. A ddeallodd y ddau fawdyn i lawr fy neges 'sgwn i? Daffodil29
  • Score: -18

4:51pm Thu 17 Apr 14

Llanmartinangel says...

The Red Claw wrote:
Llanmartinangel wrote:
Why would they? National Savings stopped their Welsh language service after only 107 people in the whole of Wales elected to be dealt with through the medium of Welsh. It was costing £900 per customer. Barclays revealed that only 3% of people press the Welsh option button on cash machines. If that's the average take up for the whole of Wales then the number of speakers in Newport must be negligible if that.
Well said. Even the most ardent language extremist will find it hard to argue with the facts.
I wish I shared your optimism but thanks for the comment. Sadly the activist will still be asking for millions for lifeboats long after the ship has sunk without a trace.
[quote][p][bold]The Red Claw[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: Why would they? National Savings stopped their Welsh language service after only 107 people in the whole of Wales elected to be dealt with through the medium of Welsh. It was costing £900 per customer. Barclays revealed that only 3% of people press the Welsh option button on cash machines. If that's the average take up for the whole of Wales then the number of speakers in Newport must be negligible if that.[/p][/quote]Well said. Even the most ardent language extremist will find it hard to argue with the facts.[/p][/quote]I wish I shared your optimism but thanks for the comment. Sadly the activist will still be asking for millions for lifeboats long after the ship has sunk without a trace. Llanmartinangel
  • Score: 10

5:26pm Thu 17 Apr 14

theviking666 says...

Syniad am golofn newydd i'r golygydd efallai . Good idea, it would be interesting to see how many people used it.
Syniad am golofn newydd i'r golygydd efallai . Good idea, it would be interesting to see how many people used it. theviking666
  • Score: 9

5:40pm Thu 17 Apr 14

Newportonian84 says...

As a Welsh speaker, born in Newport to parents from Gwent who don't speak Welsh, educated in Gwent, working in Gwent, using Welsh with people from Gwent on a daily basis, I'm proud that Newport Council is at last taking steps in the right direction - not perfect yet I know, but any positive development is welcome.
As a Welsh speaker, born in Newport to parents from Gwent who don't speak Welsh, educated in Gwent, working in Gwent, using Welsh with people from Gwent on a daily basis, I'm proud that Newport Council is at last taking steps in the right direction - not perfect yet I know, but any positive development is welcome. Newportonian84
  • Score: 12

6:27pm Thu 17 Apr 14

Cymreigiwr says...

I speak from experience, and it's complete nonsense that it's not achievable, or even that it's particularly expensive! It only requires proper planning and organisation. You don't need to pay significantly more to employ a Welsh speaker, who can then be fully utilised in either language, and as long as you have plenty, a decent service in both is very easy to achieve. And there are plenty to recruit too: At least 150 to 200 Welsh speaking Gwent kids leave secondary school every year and will need jobs, and this figure is increasing over time. The census tells us 75000 Gwent residents have Welsh skills, with 18000 in Newport itself. The fact is that all Newport Council need to do is stop under-recruiting Welsh skills and they'd have plenty of manpower to provide this service properly in future. We Welsh speakers are a small but significant minority who provide a proportionate share of the revenue they receive, so where's our service in return?

The existing Welsh language contact centre option offers notoriously poor service and would put anyone off from bothering in future (you wait for ages only to be put though to someone who can't speak Welsh offering to get a Welsh speaker to call you back later - who's going to want that? It might as well be designed to put people off).

The point of the standards is to establish what level of service we can expect, and stop them providing something useless and claiming it's adequate.

Small surprise to see the clueless anti-Welsh brigade with no empathy for people different to themselves feeling threatened that they might provide something for us. Try for a second to imagine how it'll be for you when they push not to support things you use and want, despite you contributing just as much as everyone else.
I speak from experience, and it's complete nonsense that it's not achievable, or even that it's particularly expensive! It only requires proper planning and organisation. You don't need to pay significantly more to employ a Welsh speaker, who can then be fully utilised in either language, and as long as you have plenty, a decent service in both is very easy to achieve. And there are plenty to recruit too: At least 150 to 200 Welsh speaking Gwent kids leave secondary school every year and will need jobs, and this figure is increasing over time. The census tells us 75000 Gwent residents have Welsh skills, with 18000 in Newport itself. The fact is that all Newport Council need to do is stop under-recruiting Welsh skills and they'd have plenty of manpower to provide this service properly in future. We Welsh speakers are a small but significant minority who provide a proportionate share of the revenue they receive, so where's our service in return? The existing Welsh language contact centre option offers notoriously poor service and would put anyone off from bothering in future (you wait for ages only to be put though to someone who can't speak Welsh offering to get a Welsh speaker to call you back later - who's going to want that? It might as well be designed to put people off). The point of the standards is to establish what level of service we can expect, and stop them providing something useless and claiming it's adequate. Small surprise to see the clueless anti-Welsh brigade with no empathy for people different to themselves feeling threatened that they might provide something for us. Try for a second to imagine how it'll be for you when they push not to support things you use and want, despite you contributing just as much as everyone else. Cymreigiwr
  • Score: -11

8:26pm Thu 17 Apr 14

jonesjr says...

In better financial times, the solution might be to be employ more bilingual staff. These days though, surely the solution lies in staff training? Not everyone wants to learn Welsh of course, but if Newport employs 3000 people, surely a good 5% of them would jump at the opportunity to get some seriously intensive Welsh language training? That could mean 150 staff to near-fluent level in 6 months, at minimal cost.

The language shouldn't be some big divide between us. Anyone can learn, and everyone should get the opportunity to do so.
In better financial times, the solution might be to be employ more bilingual staff. These days though, surely the solution lies in staff training? Not everyone wants to learn Welsh of course, but if Newport employs 3000 people, surely a good 5% of them would jump at the opportunity to get some seriously intensive Welsh language training? That could mean 150 staff to near-fluent level in 6 months, at minimal cost. The language shouldn't be some big divide between us. Anyone can learn, and everyone should get the opportunity to do so. jonesjr
  • Score: -7

10:46pm Thu 17 Apr 14

Llanmartinangel says...

Cymreigiwr wrote:
I speak from experience, and it's complete nonsense that it's not achievable, or even that it's particularly expensive! It only requires proper planning and organisation. You don't need to pay significantly more to employ a Welsh speaker, who can then be fully utilised in either language, and as long as you have plenty, a decent service in both is very easy to achieve. And there are plenty to recruit too: At least 150 to 200 Welsh speaking Gwent kids leave secondary school every year and will need jobs, and this figure is increasing over time. The census tells us 75000 Gwent residents have Welsh skills, with 18000 in Newport itself. The fact is that all Newport Council need to do is stop under-recruiting Welsh skills and they'd have plenty of manpower to provide this service properly in future. We Welsh speakers are a small but significant minority who provide a proportionate share of the revenue they receive, so where's our service in return?

The existing Welsh language contact centre option offers notoriously poor service and would put anyone off from bothering in future (you wait for ages only to be put though to someone who can't speak Welsh offering to get a Welsh speaker to call you back later - who's going to want that? It might as well be designed to put people off).

The point of the standards is to establish what level of service we can expect, and stop them providing something useless and claiming it's adequate.

Small surprise to see the clueless anti-Welsh brigade with no empathy for people different to themselves feeling threatened that they might provide something for us. Try for a second to imagine how it'll be for you when they push not to support things you use and want, despite you contributing just as much as everyone else.
'The census tells us 75000 Gwent residents have Welsh skills, with 18000 in Newport itself'

Utter nonsense. See my earlier post re stats from National Savings and Barclays.
[quote][p][bold]Cymreigiwr[/bold] wrote: I speak from experience, and it's complete nonsense that it's not achievable, or even that it's particularly expensive! It only requires proper planning and organisation. You don't need to pay significantly more to employ a Welsh speaker, who can then be fully utilised in either language, and as long as you have plenty, a decent service in both is very easy to achieve. And there are plenty to recruit too: At least 150 to 200 Welsh speaking Gwent kids leave secondary school every year and will need jobs, and this figure is increasing over time. The census tells us 75000 Gwent residents have Welsh skills, with 18000 in Newport itself. The fact is that all Newport Council need to do is stop under-recruiting Welsh skills and they'd have plenty of manpower to provide this service properly in future. We Welsh speakers are a small but significant minority who provide a proportionate share of the revenue they receive, so where's our service in return? The existing Welsh language contact centre option offers notoriously poor service and would put anyone off from bothering in future (you wait for ages only to be put though to someone who can't speak Welsh offering to get a Welsh speaker to call you back later - who's going to want that? It might as well be designed to put people off). The point of the standards is to establish what level of service we can expect, and stop them providing something useless and claiming it's adequate. Small surprise to see the clueless anti-Welsh brigade with no empathy for people different to themselves feeling threatened that they might provide something for us. Try for a second to imagine how it'll be for you when they push not to support things you use and want, despite you contributing just as much as everyone else.[/p][/quote]'The census tells us 75000 Gwent residents have Welsh skills, with 18000 in Newport itself' Utter nonsense. See my earlier post re stats from National Savings and Barclays. Llanmartinangel
  • Score: 12

1:10pm Fri 18 Apr 14

Mr Newport says...

Let's have a referendum about this and stop all this money wasting nonsense
Let's have a referendum about this and stop all this money wasting nonsense Mr Newport
  • Score: 12

1:29pm Fri 18 Apr 14

-trigg- says...

Newportonian84 wrote:
As a Welsh speaker, born in Newport to parents from Gwent who don't speak Welsh, educated in Gwent, working in Gwent, using Welsh with people from Gwent on a daily basis, I'm proud that Newport Council is at last taking steps in the right direction - not perfect yet I know, but any positive development is welcome.
And yet as your comment shows, you are fluent in English and as such are fully capable of communicating in that language rather than requiring the council to waste countless thousands of pounds to train staff to speak a dead language.
[quote][p][bold]Newportonian84[/bold] wrote: As a Welsh speaker, born in Newport to parents from Gwent who don't speak Welsh, educated in Gwent, working in Gwent, using Welsh with people from Gwent on a daily basis, I'm proud that Newport Council is at last taking steps in the right direction - not perfect yet I know, but any positive development is welcome.[/p][/quote]And yet as your comment shows, you are fluent in English and as such are fully capable of communicating in that language rather than requiring the council to waste countless thousands of pounds to train staff to speak a dead language. -trigg-
  • Score: 12

4:30pm Fri 18 Apr 14

Cymreigiwr says...

Llanmartinangel wrote:
Cymreigiwr wrote:
I speak from experience, and it's complete nonsense that it's not achievable, or even that it's particularly expensive! It only requires proper planning and organisation. You don't need to pay significantly more to employ a Welsh speaker, who can then be fully utilised in either language, and as long as you have plenty, a decent service in both is very easy to achieve. And there are plenty to recruit too: At least 150 to 200 Welsh speaking Gwent kids leave secondary school every year and will need jobs, and this figure is increasing over time. The census tells us 75000 Gwent residents have Welsh skills, with 18000 in Newport itself. The fact is that all Newport Council need to do is stop under-recruiting Welsh skills and they'd have plenty of manpower to provide this service properly in future. We Welsh speakers are a small but significant minority who provide a proportionate share of the revenue they receive, so where's our service in return?

The existing Welsh language contact centre option offers notoriously poor service and would put anyone off from bothering in future (you wait for ages only to be put though to someone who can't speak Welsh offering to get a Welsh speaker to call you back later - who's going to want that? It might as well be designed to put people off).

The point of the standards is to establish what level of service we can expect, and stop them providing something useless and claiming it's adequate.

Small surprise to see the clueless anti-Welsh brigade with no empathy for people different to themselves feeling threatened that they might provide something for us. Try for a second to imagine how it'll be for you when they push not to support things you use and want, despite you contributing just as much as everyone else.
'The census tells us 75000 Gwent residents have Welsh skills, with 18000 in Newport itself'

Utter nonsense. See my earlier post re stats from National Savings and Barclays.
Llanmartinangel wrote: 'The census tells us 75000 Gwent residents have Welsh skills, with 18000 in Newport itself'
Utter nonsense.

Well, Llanmartinangel, those are official figures - perhaps you know better than the Office of National Statistics? Perhaps I'm also imagining all the Welsh speakers I interact with locally all the time...

No matter how much you might wish we didn't, we do exist, and our language is very much alive - yes, even here in Gwent. We are a small but quite significant minority who contribute just like everyone else. I don't understand why there's quite such bad feeling towards us getting a little fairness and respect in return. It's not as if we threaten English language services in any way. It's not as if we're not paying for it ourselves through our taxes either.

If Newport Council considered the language properly in the first place, planned to succeed in providing the services it's obliged to, and recruited a proportionate number of Welsh speakers to match the local population, costs would be minimal, and there would be no issue.

Ni ond moyn tegwch - nid yw ein hiaith yn niweidio neb.
[quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Cymreigiwr[/bold] wrote: I speak from experience, and it's complete nonsense that it's not achievable, or even that it's particularly expensive! It only requires proper planning and organisation. You don't need to pay significantly more to employ a Welsh speaker, who can then be fully utilised in either language, and as long as you have plenty, a decent service in both is very easy to achieve. And there are plenty to recruit too: At least 150 to 200 Welsh speaking Gwent kids leave secondary school every year and will need jobs, and this figure is increasing over time. The census tells us 75000 Gwent residents have Welsh skills, with 18000 in Newport itself. The fact is that all Newport Council need to do is stop under-recruiting Welsh skills and they'd have plenty of manpower to provide this service properly in future. We Welsh speakers are a small but significant minority who provide a proportionate share of the revenue they receive, so where's our service in return? The existing Welsh language contact centre option offers notoriously poor service and would put anyone off from bothering in future (you wait for ages only to be put though to someone who can't speak Welsh offering to get a Welsh speaker to call you back later - who's going to want that? It might as well be designed to put people off). The point of the standards is to establish what level of service we can expect, and stop them providing something useless and claiming it's adequate. Small surprise to see the clueless anti-Welsh brigade with no empathy for people different to themselves feeling threatened that they might provide something for us. Try for a second to imagine how it'll be for you when they push not to support things you use and want, despite you contributing just as much as everyone else.[/p][/quote]'The census tells us 75000 Gwent residents have Welsh skills, with 18000 in Newport itself' Utter nonsense. See my earlier post re stats from National Savings and Barclays.[/p][/quote][quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: 'The census tells us 75000 Gwent residents have Welsh skills, with 18000 in Newport itself' Utter nonsense.[/p][/quote] Well, [bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold], those are official figures - perhaps you know better than the Office of National Statistics? Perhaps I'm also imagining all the Welsh speakers I interact with locally all the time... No matter how much you might wish we didn't, we do exist, and our language is very much alive - yes, even here in Gwent. We are a small but quite significant minority who contribute just like everyone else. I don't understand why there's quite such bad feeling towards us getting a little fairness and respect in return. It's not as if we threaten English language services in any way. It's not as if we're not paying for it ourselves through our taxes either. If Newport Council considered the language properly in the first place, planned to succeed in providing the services it's obliged to, and recruited a proportionate number of Welsh speakers to match the local population, costs would be minimal, and there would be no issue. Ni ond moyn tegwch - nid yw ein hiaith yn niweidio neb. Cymreigiwr
  • Score: -11

5:17pm Fri 18 Apr 14

Llanmartinangel says...

Cymreigiwr wrote:
Llanmartinangel wrote:
Cymreigiwr wrote:
I speak from experience, and it's complete nonsense that it's not achievable, or even that it's particularly expensive! It only requires proper planning and organisation. You don't need to pay significantly more to employ a Welsh speaker, who can then be fully utilised in either language, and as long as you have plenty, a decent service in both is very easy to achieve. And there are plenty to recruit too: At least 150 to 200 Welsh speaking Gwent kids leave secondary school every year and will need jobs, and this figure is increasing over time. The census tells us 75000 Gwent residents have Welsh skills, with 18000 in Newport itself. The fact is that all Newport Council need to do is stop under-recruiting Welsh skills and they'd have plenty of manpower to provide this service properly in future. We Welsh speakers are a small but significant minority who provide a proportionate share of the revenue they receive, so where's our service in return?

The existing Welsh language contact centre option offers notoriously poor service and would put anyone off from bothering in future (you wait for ages only to be put though to someone who can't speak Welsh offering to get a Welsh speaker to call you back later - who's going to want that? It might as well be designed to put people off).

The point of the standards is to establish what level of service we can expect, and stop them providing something useless and claiming it's adequate.

Small surprise to see the clueless anti-Welsh brigade with no empathy for people different to themselves feeling threatened that they might provide something for us. Try for a second to imagine how it'll be for you when they push not to support things you use and want, despite you contributing just as much as everyone else.
'The census tells us 75000 Gwent residents have Welsh skills, with 18000 in Newport itself'

Utter nonsense. See my earlier post re stats from National Savings and Barclays.
Llanmartinangel wrote: 'The census tells us 75000 Gwent residents have Welsh skills, with 18000 in Newport itself'
Utter nonsense.

Well, Llanmartinangel, those are official figures - perhaps you know better than the Office of National Statistics? Perhaps I'm also imagining all the Welsh speakers I interact with locally all the time...

No matter how much you might wish we didn't, we do exist, and our language is very much alive - yes, even here in Gwent. We are a small but quite significant minority who contribute just like everyone else. I don't understand why there's quite such bad feeling towards us getting a little fairness and respect in return. It's not as if we threaten English language services in any way. It's not as if we're not paying for it ourselves through our taxes either.

If Newport Council considered the language properly in the first place, planned to succeed in providing the services it's obliged to, and recruited a proportionate number of Welsh speakers to match the local population, costs would be minimal, and there would be no issue.

Ni ond moyn tegwch - nid yw ein hiaith yn niweidio neb.
If your language was 'alive' why do you need a Language Minister on £104k pa with her own department? Why is it not the language of commerce here? Are you suggesting that Barclays and National Savings made those figures up? The (declining) census figures often quoted are based on how people answer a question on a form. Their competency in it is therefore easily exaggerated.
[quote][p][bold]Cymreigiwr[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Cymreigiwr[/bold] wrote: I speak from experience, and it's complete nonsense that it's not achievable, or even that it's particularly expensive! It only requires proper planning and organisation. You don't need to pay significantly more to employ a Welsh speaker, who can then be fully utilised in either language, and as long as you have plenty, a decent service in both is very easy to achieve. And there are plenty to recruit too: At least 150 to 200 Welsh speaking Gwent kids leave secondary school every year and will need jobs, and this figure is increasing over time. The census tells us 75000 Gwent residents have Welsh skills, with 18000 in Newport itself. The fact is that all Newport Council need to do is stop under-recruiting Welsh skills and they'd have plenty of manpower to provide this service properly in future. We Welsh speakers are a small but significant minority who provide a proportionate share of the revenue they receive, so where's our service in return? The existing Welsh language contact centre option offers notoriously poor service and would put anyone off from bothering in future (you wait for ages only to be put though to someone who can't speak Welsh offering to get a Welsh speaker to call you back later - who's going to want that? It might as well be designed to put people off). The point of the standards is to establish what level of service we can expect, and stop them providing something useless and claiming it's adequate. Small surprise to see the clueless anti-Welsh brigade with no empathy for people different to themselves feeling threatened that they might provide something for us. Try for a second to imagine how it'll be for you when they push not to support things you use and want, despite you contributing just as much as everyone else.[/p][/quote]'The census tells us 75000 Gwent residents have Welsh skills, with 18000 in Newport itself' Utter nonsense. See my earlier post re stats from National Savings and Barclays.[/p][/quote][quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: 'The census tells us 75000 Gwent residents have Welsh skills, with 18000 in Newport itself' Utter nonsense.[/p][/quote] Well, [bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold], those are official figures - perhaps you know better than the Office of National Statistics? Perhaps I'm also imagining all the Welsh speakers I interact with locally all the time... No matter how much you might wish we didn't, we do exist, and our language is very much alive - yes, even here in Gwent. We are a small but quite significant minority who contribute just like everyone else. I don't understand why there's quite such bad feeling towards us getting a little fairness and respect in return. It's not as if we threaten English language services in any way. It's not as if we're not paying for it ourselves through our taxes either. If Newport Council considered the language properly in the first place, planned to succeed in providing the services it's obliged to, and recruited a proportionate number of Welsh speakers to match the local population, costs would be minimal, and there would be no issue. Ni ond moyn tegwch - nid yw ein hiaith yn niweidio neb.[/p][/quote]If your language was 'alive' why do you need a Language Minister on £104k pa with her own department? Why is it not the language of commerce here? Are you suggesting that Barclays and National Savings made those figures up? The (declining) census figures often quoted are based on how people answer a question on a form. Their competency in it is therefore easily exaggerated. Llanmartinangel
  • Score: 14

8:45pm Fri 18 Apr 14

real comment says...

Cymreigiwr wrote:
Llanmartinangel wrote:
Cymreigiwr wrote:
I speak from experience, and it's complete nonsense that it's not achievable, or even that it's particularly expensive! It only requires proper planning and organisation. You don't need to pay significantly more to employ a Welsh speaker, who can then be fully utilised in either language, and as long as you have plenty, a decent service in both is very easy to achieve. And there are plenty to recruit too: At least 150 to 200 Welsh speaking Gwent kids leave secondary school every year and will need jobs, and this figure is increasing over time. The census tells us 75000 Gwent residents have Welsh skills, with 18000 in Newport itself. The fact is that all Newport Council need to do is stop under-recruiting Welsh skills and they'd have plenty of manpower to provide this service properly in future. We Welsh speakers are a small but significant minority who provide a proportionate share of the revenue they receive, so where's our service in return?

The existing Welsh language contact centre option offers notoriously poor service and would put anyone off from bothering in future (you wait for ages only to be put though to someone who can't speak Welsh offering to get a Welsh speaker to call you back later - who's going to want that? It might as well be designed to put people off).

The point of the standards is to establish what level of service we can expect, and stop them providing something useless and claiming it's adequate.

Small surprise to see the clueless anti-Welsh brigade with no empathy for people different to themselves feeling threatened that they might provide something for us. Try for a second to imagine how it'll be for you when they push not to support things you use and want, despite you contributing just as much as everyone else.
'The census tells us 75000 Gwent residents have Welsh skills, with 18000 in Newport itself'

Utter nonsense. See my earlier post re stats from National Savings and Barclays.
Llanmartinangel wrote: 'The census tells us 75000 Gwent residents have Welsh skills, with 18000 in Newport itself'
Utter nonsense.

Well, Llanmartinangel, those are official figures - perhaps you know better than the Office of National Statistics? Perhaps I'm also imagining all the Welsh speakers I interact with locally all the time...

No matter how much you might wish we didn't, we do exist, and our language is very much alive - yes, even here in Gwent. We are a small but quite significant minority who contribute just like everyone else. I don't understand why there's quite such bad feeling towards us getting a little fairness and respect in return. It's not as if we threaten English language services in any way. It's not as if we're not paying for it ourselves through our taxes either.

If Newport Council considered the language properly in the first place, planned to succeed in providing the services it's obliged to, and recruited a proportionate number of Welsh speakers to match the local population, costs would be minimal, and there would be no issue.

Ni ond moyn tegwch - nid yw ein hiaith yn niweidio neb.
JUST WHAT PRACTICAL USE IS THE WELSH LANGUAGE IN MODERN SOCIETY ????
IT HAS NOTHING TO CONTRIBUTE AT ALL
[quote][p][bold]Cymreigiwr[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Cymreigiwr[/bold] wrote: I speak from experience, and it's complete nonsense that it's not achievable, or even that it's particularly expensive! It only requires proper planning and organisation. You don't need to pay significantly more to employ a Welsh speaker, who can then be fully utilised in either language, and as long as you have plenty, a decent service in both is very easy to achieve. And there are plenty to recruit too: At least 150 to 200 Welsh speaking Gwent kids leave secondary school every year and will need jobs, and this figure is increasing over time. The census tells us 75000 Gwent residents have Welsh skills, with 18000 in Newport itself. The fact is that all Newport Council need to do is stop under-recruiting Welsh skills and they'd have plenty of manpower to provide this service properly in future. We Welsh speakers are a small but significant minority who provide a proportionate share of the revenue they receive, so where's our service in return? The existing Welsh language contact centre option offers notoriously poor service and would put anyone off from bothering in future (you wait for ages only to be put though to someone who can't speak Welsh offering to get a Welsh speaker to call you back later - who's going to want that? It might as well be designed to put people off). The point of the standards is to establish what level of service we can expect, and stop them providing something useless and claiming it's adequate. Small surprise to see the clueless anti-Welsh brigade with no empathy for people different to themselves feeling threatened that they might provide something for us. Try for a second to imagine how it'll be for you when they push not to support things you use and want, despite you contributing just as much as everyone else.[/p][/quote]'The census tells us 75000 Gwent residents have Welsh skills, with 18000 in Newport itself' Utter nonsense. See my earlier post re stats from National Savings and Barclays.[/p][/quote][quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: 'The census tells us 75000 Gwent residents have Welsh skills, with 18000 in Newport itself' Utter nonsense.[/p][/quote] Well, [bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold], those are official figures - perhaps you know better than the Office of National Statistics? Perhaps I'm also imagining all the Welsh speakers I interact with locally all the time... No matter how much you might wish we didn't, we do exist, and our language is very much alive - yes, even here in Gwent. We are a small but quite significant minority who contribute just like everyone else. I don't understand why there's quite such bad feeling towards us getting a little fairness and respect in return. It's not as if we threaten English language services in any way. It's not as if we're not paying for it ourselves through our taxes either. If Newport Council considered the language properly in the first place, planned to succeed in providing the services it's obliged to, and recruited a proportionate number of Welsh speakers to match the local population, costs would be minimal, and there would be no issue. Ni ond moyn tegwch - nid yw ein hiaith yn niweidio neb.[/p][/quote]JUST WHAT PRACTICAL USE IS THE WELSH LANGUAGE IN MODERN SOCIETY ???? IT HAS NOTHING TO CONTRIBUTE AT ALL real comment
  • Score: 5

8:52pm Fri 18 Apr 14

grumpyandopinionated says...

I am all for the welsh language, however I do not agree that there should be such a thing as having to spend so much money on having to provide dual languages, I think that this is crazy, especially in newport where there aren't many people that speak it fluently enough to provide telephone support. In areas like Gwynedd and west wales then yes there are people that speak it fluently so it's not going to cost any more money as it's just another person on the phone that can speak either welsh or english. As for all of the councils having to provide the web sites in english and welsh then why don't they use something similar to wikipedia in which those that feel strongly enough can interperate the english pages into welsh and therefore not have to spend money translating it.

The issues people have with the language is that those that don't speak it feel that why should they pay the extra, and the fluent speakers feel that they are being left out because the service isn't there, which in all honestly it should be people don't make as much fuss over the millions spent on translation services into other languages which I'm pretty sure is costing us alot more than the welsh interperation eg when someone for example and not profiling a polish guy is arrested he has the right to have an interperator translate what the police are saying to him. The biggest difference is that we are not being forced to provide these languages on publications, and those that speak welsh should do more to help themselves because the more they force the dual language eventually all languages will have to be covered so that everyone who doesn't speak english as a first langue is equal. God knows how much more that will cost.
I am all for the welsh language, however I do not agree that there should be such a thing as having to spend so much money on having to provide dual languages, I think that this is crazy, especially in newport where there aren't many people that speak it fluently enough to provide telephone support. In areas like Gwynedd and west wales then yes there are people that speak it fluently so it's not going to cost any more money as it's just another person on the phone that can speak either welsh or english. As for all of the councils having to provide the web sites in english and welsh then why don't they use something similar to wikipedia in which those that feel strongly enough can interperate the english pages into welsh and therefore not have to spend money translating it. The issues people have with the language is that those that don't speak it feel that why should they pay the extra, and the fluent speakers feel that they are being left out because the service isn't there, which in all honestly it should be people don't make as much fuss over the millions spent on translation services into other languages which I'm pretty sure is costing us alot more than the welsh interperation eg when someone for example and not profiling a polish guy is arrested he has the right to have an interperator translate what the police are saying to him. The biggest difference is that we are not being forced to provide these languages on publications, and those that speak welsh should do more to help themselves because the more they force the dual language eventually all languages will have to be covered so that everyone who doesn't speak english as a first langue is equal. God knows how much more that will cost. grumpyandopinionated
  • Score: 3

8:32am Sat 19 Apr 14

Dave on his Soapbox says...

well said grumpyandopinionated ...
Having been born in Wales consider myself Welsh....but in the days when Latin was still taught in Wales' schools...and where is that language.....you never hear it anymore in Caerleon.

Yes we'd all like something that provides us with a more personalised service....but when the majority of people in Wales can speak English....and when times are hard for local authorities...spendi
ng money on these services and the paper waste generated by everyone having to send things out in Welsh....there is a huge cost in administering and disposing of the waste that is created....

Why doesn't the WAG allow local democracy.......and let councils have a tick box on their web based service and on forms....where you can opt for one language.
The reason they won't.... is that it will become apparent that there are few who really care about the language of Wales that much.

And in a globalised world there is a common language - English..... imposing the use of Welsh puts barriers in tourism... employment.... business.

Forcing councils and businesses to have Welsh language documents and web sites put extra costs onto those companies.
well said grumpyandopinionated ... Having been born in Wales consider myself Welsh....but in the days when Latin was still taught in Wales' schools...and where is that language.....you never hear it anymore in Caerleon. Yes we'd all like something that provides us with a more personalised service....but when the majority of people in Wales can speak English....and when times are hard for local authorities...spendi ng money on these services and the paper waste generated by everyone having to send things out in Welsh....there is a huge cost in administering and disposing of the waste that is created.... Why doesn't the WAG allow local democracy.......and let councils have a tick box on their web based service and on forms....where you can opt for one language. The reason they won't.... is that it will become apparent that there are few who really care about the language of Wales that much. And in a globalised world there is a common language - English..... imposing the use of Welsh puts barriers in tourism... employment.... business. Forcing councils and businesses to have Welsh language documents and web sites put extra costs onto those companies. Dave on his Soapbox
  • Score: 12

12:44pm Sun 20 Apr 14

Mervyn James says...

Sometimes wrote:
The sooner South East Wales declares independence from the WAG the better, why should the majority have to put up with these crack pot decisions that only favour a few at the expense of other services like Education and Health.
We've put up with 400 years of English indoctrination, anyone who thinks that was a peaceful and welcome walk over obviously never reads their history. It was only in the 1970s Welsh History was accepted as a valid lesson in our schools, up until then it as ignored in favour of 'English Kings and Queens' totally ignoring the Tudors who weer in fact welsh. I think if a few here read 'Hanes Cymru' they would be amazed at the depth of welsh history, and it's richness of welsh culture, instead we get the whines of the disaffected who object to the language being spoken or used,. Hence the origin of 'Welching', which just shows us, our biggest enemies were, ourselves. We have a history of attacking each other, nice to see this still goes on.... some traditions simply won't die.
[quote][p][bold]Sometimes[/bold] wrote: The sooner South East Wales declares independence from the WAG the better, why should the majority have to put up with these crack pot decisions that only favour a few at the expense of other services like Education and Health.[/p][/quote]We've put up with 400 years of English indoctrination, anyone who thinks that was a peaceful and welcome walk over obviously never reads their history. It was only in the 1970s Welsh History was accepted as a valid lesson in our schools, up until then it as ignored in favour of 'English Kings and Queens' totally ignoring the Tudors who weer in fact welsh. I think if a few here read 'Hanes Cymru' they would be amazed at the depth of welsh history, and it's richness of welsh culture, instead we get the whines of the disaffected who object to the language being spoken or used,. Hence the origin of 'Welching', which just shows us, our biggest enemies were, ourselves. We have a history of attacking each other, nice to see this still goes on.... some traditions simply won't die. Mervyn James
  • Score: -6

9:43am Tue 22 Apr 14

Cymru Am Beth says...

Dave on his Soapbox wrote:
well said grumpyandopinionated ...
Having been born in Wales consider myself Welsh....but in the days when Latin was still taught in Wales' schools...and where is that language.....you never hear it anymore in Caerleon.

Yes we'd all like something that provides us with a more personalised service....but when the majority of people in Wales can speak English....and when times are hard for local authorities...spendi

ng money on these services and the paper waste generated by everyone having to send things out in Welsh....there is a huge cost in administering and disposing of the waste that is created....

Why doesn't the WAG allow local democracy.......and let councils have a tick box on their web based service and on forms....where you can opt for one language.
The reason they won't.... is that it will become apparent that there are few who really care about the language of Wales that much.

And in a globalised world there is a common language - English..... imposing the use of Welsh puts barriers in tourism... employment.... business.

Forcing councils and businesses to have Welsh language documents and web sites put extra costs onto those companies.
Intelligent comment Dave.
[quote][p][bold]Dave on his Soapbox[/bold] wrote: well said grumpyandopinionated ... Having been born in Wales consider myself Welsh....but in the days when Latin was still taught in Wales' schools...and where is that language.....you never hear it anymore in Caerleon. Yes we'd all like something that provides us with a more personalised service....but when the majority of people in Wales can speak English....and when times are hard for local authorities...spendi ng money on these services and the paper waste generated by everyone having to send things out in Welsh....there is a huge cost in administering and disposing of the waste that is created.... Why doesn't the WAG allow local democracy.......and let councils have a tick box on their web based service and on forms....where you can opt for one language. The reason they won't.... is that it will become apparent that there are few who really care about the language of Wales that much. And in a globalised world there is a common language - English..... imposing the use of Welsh puts barriers in tourism... employment.... business. Forcing councils and businesses to have Welsh language documents and web sites put extra costs onto those companies.[/p][/quote]Intelligent comment Dave. Cymru Am Beth
  • Score: 5

9:21pm Tue 22 Apr 14

scraptheWAG says...

Llanmartinangel wrote:
Cymreigiwr wrote:
Llanmartinangel wrote:
Cymreigiwr wrote:
I speak from experience, and it's complete nonsense that it's not achievable, or even that it's particularly expensive! It only requires proper planning and organisation. You don't need to pay significantly more to employ a Welsh speaker, who can then be fully utilised in either language, and as long as you have plenty, a decent service in both is very easy to achieve. And there are plenty to recruit too: At least 150 to 200 Welsh speaking Gwent kids leave secondary school every year and will need jobs, and this figure is increasing over time. The census tells us 75000 Gwent residents have Welsh skills, with 18000 in Newport itself. The fact is that all Newport Council need to do is stop under-recruiting Welsh skills and they'd have plenty of manpower to provide this service properly in future. We Welsh speakers are a small but significant minority who provide a proportionate share of the revenue they receive, so where's our service in return?

The existing Welsh language contact centre option offers notoriously poor service and would put anyone off from bothering in future (you wait for ages only to be put though to someone who can't speak Welsh offering to get a Welsh speaker to call you back later - who's going to want that? It might as well be designed to put people off).

The point of the standards is to establish what level of service we can expect, and stop them providing something useless and claiming it's adequate.

Small surprise to see the clueless anti-Welsh brigade with no empathy for people different to themselves feeling threatened that they might provide something for us. Try for a second to imagine how it'll be for you when they push not to support things you use and want, despite you contributing just as much as everyone else.
'The census tells us 75000 Gwent residents have Welsh skills, with 18000 in Newport itself'

Utter nonsense. See my earlier post re stats from National Savings and Barclays.
Llanmartinangel wrote: 'The census tells us 75000 Gwent residents have Welsh skills, with 18000 in Newport itself'
Utter nonsense.

Well, Llanmartinangel, those are official figures - perhaps you know better than the Office of National Statistics? Perhaps I'm also imagining all the Welsh speakers I interact with locally all the time...

No matter how much you might wish we didn't, we do exist, and our language is very much alive - yes, even here in Gwent. We are a small but quite significant minority who contribute just like everyone else. I don't understand why there's quite such bad feeling towards us getting a little fairness and respect in return. It's not as if we threaten English language services in any way. It's not as if we're not paying for it ourselves through our taxes either.

If Newport Council considered the language properly in the first place, planned to succeed in providing the services it's obliged to, and recruited a proportionate number of Welsh speakers to match the local population, costs would be minimal, and there would be no issue.

Ni ond moyn tegwch - nid yw ein hiaith yn niweidio neb.
If your language was 'alive' why do you need a Language Minister on £104k pa with her own department? Why is it not the language of commerce here? Are you suggesting that Barclays and National Savings made those figures up? The (declining) census figures often quoted are based on how people answer a question on a form. Their competency in it is therefore easily exaggerated.
disgusting paying someone 100k per annum a job in the private sector would pay about 18k wales could have had another GP.

So next time you are all complaining about the state of the NHS or rises to the council tax just remember its paying for this CRAP
[quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Cymreigiwr[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Cymreigiwr[/bold] wrote: I speak from experience, and it's complete nonsense that it's not achievable, or even that it's particularly expensive! It only requires proper planning and organisation. You don't need to pay significantly more to employ a Welsh speaker, who can then be fully utilised in either language, and as long as you have plenty, a decent service in both is very easy to achieve. And there are plenty to recruit too: At least 150 to 200 Welsh speaking Gwent kids leave secondary school every year and will need jobs, and this figure is increasing over time. The census tells us 75000 Gwent residents have Welsh skills, with 18000 in Newport itself. The fact is that all Newport Council need to do is stop under-recruiting Welsh skills and they'd have plenty of manpower to provide this service properly in future. We Welsh speakers are a small but significant minority who provide a proportionate share of the revenue they receive, so where's our service in return? The existing Welsh language contact centre option offers notoriously poor service and would put anyone off from bothering in future (you wait for ages only to be put though to someone who can't speak Welsh offering to get a Welsh speaker to call you back later - who's going to want that? It might as well be designed to put people off). The point of the standards is to establish what level of service we can expect, and stop them providing something useless and claiming it's adequate. Small surprise to see the clueless anti-Welsh brigade with no empathy for people different to themselves feeling threatened that they might provide something for us. Try for a second to imagine how it'll be for you when they push not to support things you use and want, despite you contributing just as much as everyone else.[/p][/quote]'The census tells us 75000 Gwent residents have Welsh skills, with 18000 in Newport itself' Utter nonsense. See my earlier post re stats from National Savings and Barclays.[/p][/quote][quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: 'The census tells us 75000 Gwent residents have Welsh skills, with 18000 in Newport itself' Utter nonsense.[/p][/quote] Well, [bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold], those are official figures - perhaps you know better than the Office of National Statistics? Perhaps I'm also imagining all the Welsh speakers I interact with locally all the time... No matter how much you might wish we didn't, we do exist, and our language is very much alive - yes, even here in Gwent. We are a small but quite significant minority who contribute just like everyone else. I don't understand why there's quite such bad feeling towards us getting a little fairness and respect in return. It's not as if we threaten English language services in any way. It's not as if we're not paying for it ourselves through our taxes either. If Newport Council considered the language properly in the first place, planned to succeed in providing the services it's obliged to, and recruited a proportionate number of Welsh speakers to match the local population, costs would be minimal, and there would be no issue. Ni ond moyn tegwch - nid yw ein hiaith yn niweidio neb.[/p][/quote]If your language was 'alive' why do you need a Language Minister on £104k pa with her own department? Why is it not the language of commerce here? Are you suggesting that Barclays and National Savings made those figures up? The (declining) census figures often quoted are based on how people answer a question on a form. Their competency in it is therefore easily exaggerated.[/p][/quote]disgusting paying someone 100k per annum a job in the private sector would pay about 18k wales could have had another GP. So next time you are all complaining about the state of the NHS or rises to the council tax just remember its paying for this CRAP scraptheWAG
  • Score: 8

2:59pm Wed 23 Apr 14

Good Job No Kids says...

It should be optional in schools as well. I would much prefer a child has extra English or Maths lessons or even some exercise rather than waste their time in a welsh class.
It should be optional in schools as well. I would much prefer a child has extra English or Maths lessons or even some exercise rather than waste their time in a welsh class. Good Job No Kids
  • Score: 5

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