Families ‘appalled’ over binned grave memorials

Families in Torfaen are opposed to plans by the council to remove personal items from graves and have collected a 5,000 signature petition (6970075)

Families in Torfaen are opposed to plans by the council to remove personal items from graves and have collected a 5,000 signature petition (6970075)

First published in News

FRESH outrage has been caused over a borough’s cemetery rules after workers sent mementoes placed on children’s graves to landfill.

Labour-led Torfaen council sparked fury earlier this year when it pledged to remove items like chimes and windmills to comply with cemetery rules and regulations produced in 2011.

It had set a date of Saturday, May 31 for the removal of prohibited items.

The local authority began its purge the very next day by binning items.

But it has now been suggested the council has broken its own rules by binning items which should have been stored for collection for a month.

Mum-of-two Gaynor Carr, 57, was told mementoes left on the grave of her week-old son Andrew at Panteg Cemetery had been sent to a tip at the weekend.

Ms Carr, of Griffithstown, said: “I’m absolutely devas-tated.

“To visit your son’s grave and see items have been removed is absolutely appalling. It’s a baby’s grave which has been there for 30 years.

“To hear it’s gone to a tip is so degrading. It’s the lowest of the low.”

In cemetery rules produced in 2011, Torfaen council said it would store “non authorised” items for four weeks so relatives could collect them.

Mother-of-seven Catherine Bishop, whose stillborn son Andrew is buried at Cwmbran Cemetery, has spearhea-ded a campaign which has seen 5,000 people sign a petition against the cemetery regulations.

Ms Bishop said: “I think it is stupid, hurtful and disrespectful. They are children at the end of the day.

“The amount of grief and hurt this is causing is beyond the pale.

“Not everybody can get down to the cemetery. I still think they should keep them for 28 days.”

Independent Torfaen councillor Elizabeth Haynes has endorsed the petition which is to be presented to a full council meeting on Tuesday, June 24.

She said: “I feel for the parents who have been allowed to personalise graves all this time and are now being told they can’t. It really touches a nerve.”

Torfaen council confirmed yesterday it had begun a “targeted clear up”, having given families a two-month notice.

A council spokesman said: “If any non-authorised items are identified as part of our routine grounds maintenance programme, they are removed in accordance with the rules and regulations, the owner is then notified and given a period of a month to collect them if they wish.

“On this occasion, we felt it necessary to undertake a targeted clear up of all of our cemeteries to address the over-personalisation of some graves. We are responsible for 38,000 burials and given the scale of the work, it was not possible to write to all grave owners.”

Comments (42)

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4:44pm Thu 12 Jun 14

-trigg- says...

How much notice do these people need?

As the article states, the rules were produced in 2011, so they can hardly claim they haven't had plenty of time to ensure they comply with them.
How much notice do these people need? As the article states, the rules were produced in 2011, so they can hardly claim they haven't had plenty of time to ensure they comply with them. -trigg-
  • Score: 19

4:58pm Thu 12 Jun 14

Freedomguy2014 says...

-trigg- wrote:
How much notice do these people need?

As the article states, the rules were produced in 2011, so they can hardly claim they haven't had plenty of time to ensure they comply with them.
how would you feel if you had items that could not be replaced taken off of your family members grave and Thrown in the Bin

it is disgusting

It is not doing any harm they are not in the way and like i said some items cannot be replaced. Even if they take them off they should not throw them away.

if they had a heart and soul and stopped to think what if it was their family grave how would they feel. They would understand what they are doing is inhumane.

all they care about is the money in their pockets.

Matt..
[quote][p][bold]-trigg-[/bold] wrote: How much notice do these people need? As the article states, the rules were produced in 2011, so they can hardly claim they haven't had plenty of time to ensure they comply with them.[/p][/quote]how would you feel if you had items that could not be replaced taken off of your family members grave and Thrown in the Bin it is disgusting It is not doing any harm they are not in the way and like i said some items cannot be replaced. Even if they take them off they should not throw them away. if they had a heart and soul and stopped to think what if it was their family grave how would they feel. They would understand what they are doing is inhumane. all they care about is the money in their pockets. Matt.. Freedomguy2014
  • Score: -14

8:25pm Thu 12 Jun 14

indy2012 says...

"A council spokesman " John Cunningham not available for comment then!
When the going gets tough the councillors shy away, god forbid that they're names a linked with this.
"A council spokesman " John Cunningham not available for comment then! When the going gets tough the councillors shy away, god forbid that they're names a linked with this. indy2012
  • Score: 5

8:57pm Thu 12 Jun 14

Woodgnome says...

Torfaen are correct and in time, those now upset and outraged will come to accept the cemetery will look uncluttered and peaceful.
Torfaen are correct and in time, those now upset and outraged will come to accept the cemetery will look uncluttered and peaceful. Woodgnome
  • Score: 13

8:02am Fri 13 Jun 14

Realist UK says...

What on earth is this country coming to? What next, flashing lights on the Cenotaph? Funeral processions with carnival-type floats? Please, try as best as possible to keep some sort of decorum.
What on earth is this country coming to? What next, flashing lights on the Cenotaph? Funeral processions with carnival-type floats? Please, try as best as possible to keep some sort of decorum. Realist UK
  • Score: 18

9:34am Fri 13 Jun 14

Floppy backed says...

A cemetery is for stones and plaques only. It is not the suitable place for items that can be blown about, cause grass cutting problems and turn the place into a disney shop. As much as I feel for those grieving the cemetery is a place for everyone to visit and should conform to rules and regulations. At home you can do what you want. Torfaen are correct on this occasion.
A cemetery is for stones and plaques only. It is not the suitable place for items that can be blown about, cause grass cutting problems and turn the place into a disney shop. As much as I feel for those grieving the cemetery is a place for everyone to visit and should conform to rules and regulations. At home you can do what you want. Torfaen are correct on this occasion. Floppy backed
  • Score: 15

9:37am Fri 13 Jun 14

-trigg- says...

Freedomguy2014 wrote:
-trigg- wrote: How much notice do these people need? As the article states, the rules were produced in 2011, so they can hardly claim they haven't had plenty of time to ensure they comply with them.
how would you feel if you had items that could not be replaced taken off of your family members grave and Thrown in the Bin it is disgusting It is not doing any harm they are not in the way and like i said some items cannot be replaced. Even if they take them off they should not throw them away. if they had a heart and soul and stopped to think what if it was their family grave how would they feel. They would understand what they are doing is inhumane. all they care about is the money in their pockets. Matt..
If the items in question are that treasured and that irreplaceable, then they should have been kept somewhere where they could be properly looked after, rather than on council property in contravention of the rules.
[quote][p][bold]Freedomguy2014[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]-trigg-[/bold] wrote: How much notice do these people need? As the article states, the rules were produced in 2011, so they can hardly claim they haven't had plenty of time to ensure they comply with them.[/p][/quote]how would you feel if you had items that could not be replaced taken off of your family members grave and Thrown in the Bin it is disgusting It is not doing any harm they are not in the way and like i said some items cannot be replaced. Even if they take them off they should not throw them away. if they had a heart and soul and stopped to think what if it was their family grave how would they feel. They would understand what they are doing is inhumane. all they care about is the money in their pockets. Matt..[/p][/quote]If the items in question are that treasured and that irreplaceable, then they should have been kept somewhere where they could be properly looked after, rather than on council property in contravention of the rules. -trigg-
  • Score: 6

1:01pm Fri 13 Jun 14

anton88 says...

I don't see a problem with people putting personal items on graves, you see graves that are kept tidy and looked after by family members and others that are all run down. Why cant they keep their graves the way they want them without people getting involved and let them grieve in peace.
I don't see a problem with people putting personal items on graves, you see graves that are kept tidy and looked after by family members and others that are all run down. Why cant they keep their graves the way they want them without people getting involved and let them grieve in peace. anton88
  • Score: -3

1:53pm Fri 13 Jun 14

Woodgnome says...

anton88 wrote:
I don't see a problem with people putting personal items on graves, you see graves that are kept tidy and looked after by family members and others that are all run down. Why cant they keep their graves the way they want them without people getting involved and let them grieve in peace.
Because it's a PUBLIC cemetery Anton.
[quote][p][bold]anton88[/bold] wrote: I don't see a problem with people putting personal items on graves, you see graves that are kept tidy and looked after by family members and others that are all run down. Why cant they keep their graves the way they want them without people getting involved and let them grieve in peace.[/p][/quote]Because it's a PUBLIC cemetery Anton. Woodgnome
  • Score: 17

2:07pm Fri 13 Jun 14

maryjj says...

I think the South Wales Argus should stop sensationalising this story and offer a balanced argument. The photograph used with this article is very clever, only showing a tiny portion of the cemetery and oddly enough an area which is mainly grass. It fails to show the graves that are overgrown, the adornments which are huge and leave no space between graves to walk, let alone maintain and the weeds etc., etc.. Some of the encroachment is so bad that you have to tip toe over things to reach some graves and my father in law who struggles to walk even with the use of an aid cannot even get there for fear of falling and breaking his neck, so maybe this is something that should be considered! Whilst I believe the council could have handled this in a better manner, I back them all the way and judging by the majority of comments so do many others.

I would also suggest that responsible journalism should prevail here and instead of stoking the fire of grief and prolonging the agony, this paper should help the mourning understand that rules are rules for a reason, for the majority and not just the few, to provide a peaceful and well maintained area for all of the grief stricken to use.

I look forward to your balanced article looking at the pro's of this council action.
I think the South Wales Argus should stop sensationalising this story and offer a balanced argument. The photograph used with this article is very clever, only showing a tiny portion of the cemetery and oddly enough an area which is mainly grass. It fails to show the graves that are overgrown, the adornments which are huge and leave no space between graves to walk, let alone maintain and the weeds etc., etc.. Some of the encroachment is so bad that you have to tip toe over things to reach some graves and my father in law who struggles to walk even with the use of an aid cannot even get there for fear of falling and breaking his neck, so maybe this is something that should be considered! Whilst I believe the council could have handled this in a better manner, I back them all the way and judging by the majority of comments so do many others. I would also suggest that responsible journalism should prevail here and instead of stoking the fire of grief and prolonging the agony, this paper should help the mourning understand that rules are rules for a reason, for the majority and not just the few, to provide a peaceful and well maintained area for all of the grief stricken to use. I look forward to your balanced article looking at the pro's of this council action. maryjj
  • Score: 20

2:11pm Fri 13 Jun 14

:( :( :( says...

To all you heartless ones who are writting sad stuff just to get more likes!
How would you feel if you had to bury your child?
how would you feel if you couldnt buy that child anything every again?
how would you feel if some1 came a threw all you childrens toys in the bin?

not once have i had a letter asking me to remove items!
not once have anyone phoned me to remove items!
not once has anyone sent me a copy of the new rules since they came out in 2011! so before you come on here shouting you big mouth off get your FACTS right !!!!
To all you heartless ones who are writting sad stuff just to get more likes! How would you feel if you had to bury your child? how would you feel if you couldnt buy that child anything every again? how would you feel if some1 came a threw all you childrens toys in the bin? not once have i had a letter asking me to remove items! not once have anyone phoned me to remove items! not once has anyone sent me a copy of the new rules since they came out in 2011! so before you come on here shouting you big mouth off get your FACTS right !!!! :( :( :(
  • Score: 5

2:14pm Fri 13 Jun 14

:( :( :( says...

Floppy backed wrote:
A cemetery is for stones and plaques only. It is not the suitable place for items that can be blown about, cause grass cutting problems and turn the place into a disney shop. As much as I feel for those grieving the cemetery is a place for everyone to visit and should conform to rules and regulations. At home you can do what you want. Torfaen are correct on this occasion.
how can we do what we want at home if our children and loved ones are no longer with us ????
[quote][p][bold]Floppy backed[/bold] wrote: A cemetery is for stones and plaques only. It is not the suitable place for items that can be blown about, cause grass cutting problems and turn the place into a disney shop. As much as I feel for those grieving the cemetery is a place for everyone to visit and should conform to rules and regulations. At home you can do what you want. Torfaen are correct on this occasion.[/p][/quote]how can we do what we want at home if our children and loved ones are no longer with us ???? :( :( :(
  • Score: 2

2:51pm Fri 13 Jun 14

maryjj says...

:( :( :( wrote:
To all you heartless ones who are writting sad stuff just to get more likes!
How would you feel if you had to bury your child?
how would you feel if you couldnt buy that child anything every again?
how would you feel if some1 came a threw all you childrens toys in the bin?

not once have i had a letter asking me to remove items!
not once have anyone phoned me to remove items!
not once has anyone sent me a copy of the new rules since they came out in 2011! so before you come on here shouting you big mouth off get your FACTS right !!!!
People are not being heartless, just realistic and I for one know exactly what it is like to bury a child. In fact I buried two. Every day I talk to them and wish they were here and I deal with the pain that will last until the day I take my final breath but they are dead and no amount of toys on their graves will bring them back or keep them company. They live with us in our souls and we should get comfort from that. It took me over ten years to pull myself out the quagmire of depression and start living again. When they were buried, there were few graves in the cemetery and now they are surrounded. Unfortunately, because there is no clear regulation about the size of monument or adornments or size of gravel bed put over our children by some, I now struggle to reach my children and in recent years have stopped visiting the cemetery as often as I would like because of the state it is in.In my opinion it looks dreadful and is not peaceful or serene or respectful. This is not a matter where emotion should take precedence. It is simply about maintenance and common sense. Maybe I feel differently because I never wanted my children covered in toys and gravel. I prefer flowers and simple mementos placed on the gravestone. I feel it is more fitting to the gentle souls that rest there. But this is the problem. We all have different tastes and ideas. Therefore, rules are put in place to ensure that there is uniformity. I do agree however that the whole issue should have been handled better by the council and all newly bereaved parents should be informed by funeral directors or monument erectors about the regulations and this would have saved a lot of pain.
[quote][p][bold]:( :( :([/bold] wrote: To all you heartless ones who are writting sad stuff just to get more likes! How would you feel if you had to bury your child? how would you feel if you couldnt buy that child anything every again? how would you feel if some1 came a threw all you childrens toys in the bin? not once have i had a letter asking me to remove items! not once have anyone phoned me to remove items! not once has anyone sent me a copy of the new rules since they came out in 2011! so before you come on here shouting you big mouth off get your FACTS right !!!![/p][/quote]People are not being heartless, just realistic and I for one know exactly what it is like to bury a child. In fact I buried two. Every day I talk to them and wish they were here and I deal with the pain that will last until the day I take my final breath but they are dead and no amount of toys on their graves will bring them back or keep them company. They live with us in our souls and we should get comfort from that. It took me over ten years to pull myself out the quagmire of depression and start living again. When they were buried, there were few graves in the cemetery and now they are surrounded. Unfortunately, because there is no clear regulation about the size of monument or adornments or size of gravel bed put over our children by some, I now struggle to reach my children and in recent years have stopped visiting the cemetery as often as I would like because of the state it is in.In my opinion it looks dreadful and is not peaceful or serene or respectful. This is not a matter where emotion should take precedence. It is simply about maintenance and common sense. Maybe I feel differently because I never wanted my children covered in toys and gravel. I prefer flowers and simple mementos placed on the gravestone. I feel it is more fitting to the gentle souls that rest there. But this is the problem. We all have different tastes and ideas. Therefore, rules are put in place to ensure that there is uniformity. I do agree however that the whole issue should have been handled better by the council and all newly bereaved parents should be informed by funeral directors or monument erectors about the regulations and this would have saved a lot of pain. maryjj
  • Score: 28

3:02pm Fri 13 Jun 14

maryjj says...

Woodgnome wrote:
anton88 wrote:
I don't see a problem with people putting personal items on graves, you see graves that are kept tidy and looked after by family members and others that are all run down. Why cant they keep their graves the way they want them without people getting involved and let them grieve in peace.
Because it's a PUBLIC cemetery Anton.
I think it is fine for people to put items on the gravestone base but in Cwmbran children's cemetery people have taken it upon themselves to lay down gravelled areas. Some have wooden fences, wire fences, stone fences, plastic fences, blue stones, white stones, glass beads, astro turf to name but a few variations, On top of this are the toys, solar lights, lanterns, windmills, cards, train sets, teddy bears, dolls, plastic flowers, silk flowers, moving toys, musical toys and I could probably go on, These areas in most cases are not the size of a babies coffin but the size a bed! I would imagine the purpose of this is to ensure that no one stands on their child but by placing something down, just because it makes you feel better, means that space is no longer available to walk to graves. It also means that over time the areas become engulfed in long grass and weeds and look like neglected tufts of earth. Staff cannot maintain areas to a good enough standard and it is only a matter of time before someone comes to injury falling over.
[quote][p][bold]Woodgnome[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]anton88[/bold] wrote: I don't see a problem with people putting personal items on graves, you see graves that are kept tidy and looked after by family members and others that are all run down. Why cant they keep their graves the way they want them without people getting involved and let them grieve in peace.[/p][/quote]Because it's a PUBLIC cemetery Anton.[/p][/quote]I think it is fine for people to put items on the gravestone base but in Cwmbran children's cemetery people have taken it upon themselves to lay down gravelled areas. Some have wooden fences, wire fences, stone fences, plastic fences, blue stones, white stones, glass beads, astro turf to name but a few variations, On top of this are the toys, solar lights, lanterns, windmills, cards, train sets, teddy bears, dolls, plastic flowers, silk flowers, moving toys, musical toys and I could probably go on, These areas in most cases are not the size of a babies coffin but the size a bed! I would imagine the purpose of this is to ensure that no one stands on their child but by placing something down, just because it makes you feel better, means that space is no longer available to walk to graves. It also means that over time the areas become engulfed in long grass and weeds and look like neglected tufts of earth. Staff cannot maintain areas to a good enough standard and it is only a matter of time before someone comes to injury falling over. maryjj
  • Score: 15

3:11pm Fri 13 Jun 14

-trigg- says...

:( :( :( wrote:
To all you heartless ones who are writting sad stuff just to get more likes! How would you feel if you had to bury your child? how would you feel if you couldnt buy that child anything every again? how would you feel if some1 came a threw all you childrens toys in the bin? not once have i had a letter asking me to remove items! not once have anyone phoned me to remove items! not once has anyone sent me a copy of the new rules since they came out in 2011! so before you come on here shouting you big mouth off get your FACTS right !!!!
Of course I would feel terrible if I had to bury a child. Its even quite possible that I would construct a shrine to their memory from cuddly toys, solar powered lights, photographs and tacky ornaments from poundland.

However, if I were to do so, I would construct said shrine in the privacy of my own garden, rather than knowingly flouting the rules that are in place governing appropriate graveside decorations, and which have to be agreed to when arranging a burial plot. Further, I wouldn't then launch a misguided appeal for sympathy through the local newspaper.
[quote][p][bold]:( :( :([/bold] wrote: To all you heartless ones who are writting sad stuff just to get more likes! How would you feel if you had to bury your child? how would you feel if you couldnt buy that child anything every again? how would you feel if some1 came a threw all you childrens toys in the bin? not once have i had a letter asking me to remove items! not once have anyone phoned me to remove items! not once has anyone sent me a copy of the new rules since they came out in 2011! so before you come on here shouting you big mouth off get your FACTS right !!!![/p][/quote]Of course I would feel terrible if I had to bury a child. Its even quite possible that I would construct a shrine to their memory from cuddly toys, solar powered lights, photographs and tacky ornaments from poundland. However, if I were to do so, I would construct said shrine in the privacy of my own garden, rather than knowingly flouting the rules that are in place governing appropriate graveside decorations, and which have to be agreed to when arranging a burial plot. Further, I wouldn't then launch a misguided appeal for sympathy through the local newspaper. -trigg-
  • Score: 11

4:46pm Fri 13 Jun 14

HMarie says...

Woodgnome wrote:
anton88 wrote:
I don't see a problem with people putting personal items on graves, you see graves that are kept tidy and looked after by family members and others that are all run down. Why cant they keep their graves the way they want them without people getting involved and let them grieve in peace.
Because it's a PUBLIC cemetery Anton.
So look at the grave your visiting not the childrens! Most babies and children are buried seperately so what business is it off yours to take a walk over and have a look? None!
[quote][p][bold]Woodgnome[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]anton88[/bold] wrote: I don't see a problem with people putting personal items on graves, you see graves that are kept tidy and looked after by family members and others that are all run down. Why cant they keep their graves the way they want them without people getting involved and let them grieve in peace.[/p][/quote]Because it's a PUBLIC cemetery Anton.[/p][/quote]So look at the grave your visiting not the childrens! Most babies and children are buried seperately so what business is it off yours to take a walk over and have a look? None! HMarie
  • Score: -15

4:59pm Fri 13 Jun 14

HMarie says...

maryjj wrote:
:( :( :( wrote:
To all you heartless ones who are writting sad stuff just to get more likes!
How would you feel if you had to bury your child?
how would you feel if you couldnt buy that child anything every again?
how would you feel if some1 came a threw all you childrens toys in the bin?

not once have i had a letter asking me to remove items!
not once have anyone phoned me to remove items!
not once has anyone sent me a copy of the new rules since they came out in 2011! so before you come on here shouting you big mouth off get your FACTS right !!!!
People are not being heartless, just realistic and I for one know exactly what it is like to bury a child. In fact I buried two. Every day I talk to them and wish they were here and I deal with the pain that will last until the day I take my final breath but they are dead and no amount of toys on their graves will bring them back or keep them company. They live with us in our souls and we should get comfort from that. It took me over ten years to pull myself out the quagmire of depression and start living again. When they were buried, there were few graves in the cemetery and now they are surrounded. Unfortunately, because there is no clear regulation about the size of monument or adornments or size of gravel bed put over our children by some, I now struggle to reach my children and in recent years have stopped visiting the cemetery as often as I would like because of the state it is in.In my opinion it looks dreadful and is not peaceful or serene or respectful. This is not a matter where emotion should take precedence. It is simply about maintenance and common sense. Maybe I feel differently because I never wanted my children covered in toys and gravel. I prefer flowers and simple mementos placed on the gravestone. I feel it is more fitting to the gentle souls that rest there. But this is the problem. We all have different tastes and ideas. Therefore, rules are put in place to ensure that there is uniformity. I do agree however that the whole issue should have been handled better by the council and all newly bereaved parents should be informed by funeral directors or monument erectors about the regulations and this would have saved a lot of pain.
Thats crap. I go there on a weekly basis and there is nothing hanging over your daughters graves. And there is just as much room around their graves as everyone else's. I wipe down your daughters headstones every now and againg to tidy them up. Most of us mums do that for each other. My daughter has been there for 8 years, which i appreciate is less than your children, but never the less i have never had a copy or even been informed of these new rules. Grief is a process, many people like myself NEED to leave pretty little items for their babies. As time passes and hearts begin to heal a little we feel less of a need. I myself removed the stones and edging off my daughters grave last year because i didnt feel i needed it anymore. Which may i add was laid by petersons so im **** sure it was the correct perimiter. Also, some babys are still born, my girl was 8 months, alot bigger than a newborn, bobbie was 3, again bigger, same for amber. So how can you say they only should be allowed a small area, meaning people would infact be walking over their bodies??? The council have gone about this completely the wrong way. Penalising parents who maintain their graves, why not approch the families off the graves that are kept untidy, ask them to sort it, if thwy dont then clear it away! Much easier and kinder!!
[quote][p][bold]maryjj[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]:( :( :([/bold] wrote: To all you heartless ones who are writting sad stuff just to get more likes! How would you feel if you had to bury your child? how would you feel if you couldnt buy that child anything every again? how would you feel if some1 came a threw all you childrens toys in the bin? not once have i had a letter asking me to remove items! not once have anyone phoned me to remove items! not once has anyone sent me a copy of the new rules since they came out in 2011! so before you come on here shouting you big mouth off get your FACTS right !!!![/p][/quote]People are not being heartless, just realistic and I for one know exactly what it is like to bury a child. In fact I buried two. Every day I talk to them and wish they were here and I deal with the pain that will last until the day I take my final breath but they are dead and no amount of toys on their graves will bring them back or keep them company. They live with us in our souls and we should get comfort from that. It took me over ten years to pull myself out the quagmire of depression and start living again. When they were buried, there were few graves in the cemetery and now they are surrounded. Unfortunately, because there is no clear regulation about the size of monument or adornments or size of gravel bed put over our children by some, I now struggle to reach my children and in recent years have stopped visiting the cemetery as often as I would like because of the state it is in.In my opinion it looks dreadful and is not peaceful or serene or respectful. This is not a matter where emotion should take precedence. It is simply about maintenance and common sense. Maybe I feel differently because I never wanted my children covered in toys and gravel. I prefer flowers and simple mementos placed on the gravestone. I feel it is more fitting to the gentle souls that rest there. But this is the problem. We all have different tastes and ideas. Therefore, rules are put in place to ensure that there is uniformity. I do agree however that the whole issue should have been handled better by the council and all newly bereaved parents should be informed by funeral directors or monument erectors about the regulations and this would have saved a lot of pain.[/p][/quote]Thats crap. I go there on a weekly basis and there is nothing hanging over your daughters graves. And there is just as much room around their graves as everyone else's. I wipe down your daughters headstones every now and againg to tidy them up. Most of us mums do that for each other. My daughter has been there for 8 years, which i appreciate is less than your children, but never the less i have never had a copy or even been informed of these new rules. Grief is a process, many people like myself NEED to leave pretty little items for their babies. As time passes and hearts begin to heal a little we feel less of a need. I myself removed the stones and edging off my daughters grave last year because i didnt feel i needed it anymore. Which may i add was laid by petersons so im **** sure it was the correct perimiter. Also, some babys are still born, my girl was 8 months, alot bigger than a newborn, bobbie was 3, again bigger, same for amber. So how can you say they only should be allowed a small area, meaning people would infact be walking over their bodies??? The council have gone about this completely the wrong way. Penalising parents who maintain their graves, why not approch the families off the graves that are kept untidy, ask them to sort it, if thwy dont then clear it away! Much easier and kinder!! HMarie
  • Score: -4

5:02pm Fri 13 Jun 14

HMarie says...

-trigg- wrote:
:( :( :( wrote:
To all you heartless ones who are writting sad stuff just to get more likes! How would you feel if you had to bury your child? how would you feel if you couldnt buy that child anything every again? how would you feel if some1 came a threw all you childrens toys in the bin? not once have i had a letter asking me to remove items! not once have anyone phoned me to remove items! not once has anyone sent me a copy of the new rules since they came out in 2011! so before you come on here shouting you big mouth off get your FACTS right !!!!
Of course I would feel terrible if I had to bury a child. Its even quite possible that I would construct a shrine to their memory from cuddly toys, solar powered lights, photographs and tacky ornaments from poundland.

However, if I were to do so, I would construct said shrine in the privacy of my own garden, rather than knowingly flouting the rules that are in place governing appropriate graveside decorations, and which have to be agreed to when arranging a burial plot. Further, I wouldn't then launch a misguided appeal for sympathy through the local newspaper.
My childs been buried for 8 years, the only reason i know about the rules is via facebook. My cousin however died 9 weeks ago, his mother never once rwvieved any
[quote][p][bold]-trigg-[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]:( :( :([/bold] wrote: To all you heartless ones who are writting sad stuff just to get more likes! How would you feel if you had to bury your child? how would you feel if you couldnt buy that child anything every again? how would you feel if some1 came a threw all you childrens toys in the bin? not once have i had a letter asking me to remove items! not once have anyone phoned me to remove items! not once has anyone sent me a copy of the new rules since they came out in 2011! so before you come on here shouting you big mouth off get your FACTS right !!!![/p][/quote]Of course I would feel terrible if I had to bury a child. Its even quite possible that I would construct a shrine to their memory from cuddly toys, solar powered lights, photographs and tacky ornaments from poundland. However, if I were to do so, I would construct said shrine in the privacy of my own garden, rather than knowingly flouting the rules that are in place governing appropriate graveside decorations, and which have to be agreed to when arranging a burial plot. Further, I wouldn't then launch a misguided appeal for sympathy through the local newspaper.[/p][/quote]My childs been buried for 8 years, the only reason i know about the rules is via facebook. My cousin however died 9 weeks ago, his mother never once rwvieved any HMarie
  • Score: -2

5:04pm Fri 13 Jun 14

HMarie says...

-trigg- wrote:
:( :( :( wrote:
To all you heartless ones who are writting sad stuff just to get more likes! How would you feel if you had to bury your child? how would you feel if you couldnt buy that child anything every again? how would you feel if some1 came a threw all you childrens toys in the bin? not once have i had a letter asking me to remove items! not once have anyone phoned me to remove items! not once has anyone sent me a copy of the new rules since they came out in 2011! so before you come on here shouting you big mouth off get your FACTS right !!!!
Of course I would feel terrible if I had to bury a child. Its even quite possible that I would construct a shrine to their memory from cuddly toys, solar powered lights, photographs and tacky ornaments from poundland.

However, if I were to do so, I would construct said shrine in the privacy of my own garden, rather than knowingly flouting the rules that are in place governing appropriate graveside decorations, and which have to be agreed to when arranging a burial plot. Further, I wouldn't then launch a misguided appeal for sympathy through the local newspaper.
My cousin however passed away 9 weeks ago, not once through the funeral process was his mother informed of the rules. Infact she only new about them 5 days after he was buried telling her to remove the items listed...
[quote][p][bold]-trigg-[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]:( :( :([/bold] wrote: To all you heartless ones who are writting sad stuff just to get more likes! How would you feel if you had to bury your child? how would you feel if you couldnt buy that child anything every again? how would you feel if some1 came a threw all you childrens toys in the bin? not once have i had a letter asking me to remove items! not once have anyone phoned me to remove items! not once has anyone sent me a copy of the new rules since they came out in 2011! so before you come on here shouting you big mouth off get your FACTS right !!!![/p][/quote]Of course I would feel terrible if I had to bury a child. Its even quite possible that I would construct a shrine to their memory from cuddly toys, solar powered lights, photographs and tacky ornaments from poundland. However, if I were to do so, I would construct said shrine in the privacy of my own garden, rather than knowingly flouting the rules that are in place governing appropriate graveside decorations, and which have to be agreed to when arranging a burial plot. Further, I wouldn't then launch a misguided appeal for sympathy through the local newspaper.[/p][/quote]My cousin however passed away 9 weeks ago, not once through the funeral process was his mother informed of the rules. Infact she only new about them 5 days after he was buried telling her to remove the items listed... HMarie
  • Score: 0

5:42pm Fri 13 Jun 14

Woodgnome says...

HMarie wrote:
Woodgnome wrote:
anton88 wrote:
I don't see a problem with people putting personal items on graves, you see graves that are kept tidy and looked after by family members and others that are all run down. Why cant they keep their graves the way they want them without people getting involved and let them grieve in peace.
Because it's a PUBLIC cemetery Anton.
So look at the grave your visiting not the childrens! Most babies and children are buried seperately so what business is it off yours to take a walk over and have a look? None!
It's a PUBLIC place and there are no private areas. All areas are visible from most places. Do you expect visitors to wear blinkers? Be realistic.
[quote][p][bold]HMarie[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Woodgnome[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]anton88[/bold] wrote: I don't see a problem with people putting personal items on graves, you see graves that are kept tidy and looked after by family members and others that are all run down. Why cant they keep their graves the way they want them without people getting involved and let them grieve in peace.[/p][/quote]Because it's a PUBLIC cemetery Anton.[/p][/quote]So look at the grave your visiting not the childrens! Most babies and children are buried seperately so what business is it off yours to take a walk over and have a look? None![/p][/quote]It's a PUBLIC place and there are no private areas. All areas are visible from most places. Do you expect visitors to wear blinkers? Be realistic. Woodgnome
  • Score: 14

5:49pm Fri 13 Jun 14

maryjj says...

HMarie wrote:
maryjj wrote:
:( :( :( wrote:
To all you heartless ones who are writting sad stuff just to get more likes!
How would you feel if you had to bury your child?
how would you feel if you couldnt buy that child anything every again?
how would you feel if some1 came a threw all you childrens toys in the bin?

not once have i had a letter asking me to remove items!
not once have anyone phoned me to remove items!
not once has anyone sent me a copy of the new rules since they came out in 2011! so before you come on here shouting you big mouth off get your FACTS right !!!!
People are not being heartless, just realistic and I for one know exactly what it is like to bury a child. In fact I buried two. Every day I talk to them and wish they were here and I deal with the pain that will last until the day I take my final breath but they are dead and no amount of toys on their graves will bring them back or keep them company. They live with us in our souls and we should get comfort from that. It took me over ten years to pull myself out the quagmire of depression and start living again. When they were buried, there were few graves in the cemetery and now they are surrounded. Unfortunately, because there is no clear regulation about the size of monument or adornments or size of gravel bed put over our children by some, I now struggle to reach my children and in recent years have stopped visiting the cemetery as often as I would like because of the state it is in.In my opinion it looks dreadful and is not peaceful or serene or respectful. This is not a matter where emotion should take precedence. It is simply about maintenance and common sense. Maybe I feel differently because I never wanted my children covered in toys and gravel. I prefer flowers and simple mementos placed on the gravestone. I feel it is more fitting to the gentle souls that rest there. But this is the problem. We all have different tastes and ideas. Therefore, rules are put in place to ensure that there is uniformity. I do agree however that the whole issue should have been handled better by the council and all newly bereaved parents should be informed by funeral directors or monument erectors about the regulations and this would have saved a lot of pain.
Thats crap. I go there on a weekly basis and there is nothing hanging over your daughters graves. And there is just as much room around their graves as everyone else's. I wipe down your daughters headstones every now and againg to tidy them up. Most of us mums do that for each other. My daughter has been there for 8 years, which i appreciate is less than your children, but never the less i have never had a copy or even been informed of these new rules. Grief is a process, many people like myself NEED to leave pretty little items for their babies. As time passes and hearts begin to heal a little we feel less of a need. I myself removed the stones and edging off my daughters grave last year because i didnt feel i needed it anymore. Which may i add was laid by petersons so im **** sure it was the correct perimiter. Also, some babys are still born, my girl was 8 months, alot bigger than a newborn, bobbie was 3, again bigger, same for amber. So how can you say they only should be allowed a small area, meaning people would infact be walking over their bodies??? The council have gone about this completely the wrong way. Penalising parents who maintain their graves, why not approch the families off the graves that are kept untidy, ask them to sort it, if thwy dont then clear it away! Much easier and kinder!!
I am sorry you feel the need to be rude and offensive. I have kept my comment very polite and not referred to any particular grave but tried to be as objective as possible whilst passing on my opinions which are personal to my feelings. It seems that people like me are okay to upset and offend just because I would prefer a cemetery with grass and headstones. I do not know who you are but feel your comments very personal and hurtful and there was no need to use such language. Why should my opinion not matter in this case?? After all I should be allowed to have a say without being insulted.
[quote][p][bold]HMarie[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]maryjj[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]:( :( :([/bold] wrote: To all you heartless ones who are writting sad stuff just to get more likes! How would you feel if you had to bury your child? how would you feel if you couldnt buy that child anything every again? how would you feel if some1 came a threw all you childrens toys in the bin? not once have i had a letter asking me to remove items! not once have anyone phoned me to remove items! not once has anyone sent me a copy of the new rules since they came out in 2011! so before you come on here shouting you big mouth off get your FACTS right !!!![/p][/quote]People are not being heartless, just realistic and I for one know exactly what it is like to bury a child. In fact I buried two. Every day I talk to them and wish they were here and I deal with the pain that will last until the day I take my final breath but they are dead and no amount of toys on their graves will bring them back or keep them company. They live with us in our souls and we should get comfort from that. It took me over ten years to pull myself out the quagmire of depression and start living again. When they were buried, there were few graves in the cemetery and now they are surrounded. Unfortunately, because there is no clear regulation about the size of monument or adornments or size of gravel bed put over our children by some, I now struggle to reach my children and in recent years have stopped visiting the cemetery as often as I would like because of the state it is in.In my opinion it looks dreadful and is not peaceful or serene or respectful. This is not a matter where emotion should take precedence. It is simply about maintenance and common sense. Maybe I feel differently because I never wanted my children covered in toys and gravel. I prefer flowers and simple mementos placed on the gravestone. I feel it is more fitting to the gentle souls that rest there. But this is the problem. We all have different tastes and ideas. Therefore, rules are put in place to ensure that there is uniformity. I do agree however that the whole issue should have been handled better by the council and all newly bereaved parents should be informed by funeral directors or monument erectors about the regulations and this would have saved a lot of pain.[/p][/quote]Thats crap. I go there on a weekly basis and there is nothing hanging over your daughters graves. And there is just as much room around their graves as everyone else's. I wipe down your daughters headstones every now and againg to tidy them up. Most of us mums do that for each other. My daughter has been there for 8 years, which i appreciate is less than your children, but never the less i have never had a copy or even been informed of these new rules. Grief is a process, many people like myself NEED to leave pretty little items for their babies. As time passes and hearts begin to heal a little we feel less of a need. I myself removed the stones and edging off my daughters grave last year because i didnt feel i needed it anymore. Which may i add was laid by petersons so im **** sure it was the correct perimiter. Also, some babys are still born, my girl was 8 months, alot bigger than a newborn, bobbie was 3, again bigger, same for amber. So how can you say they only should be allowed a small area, meaning people would infact be walking over their bodies??? The council have gone about this completely the wrong way. Penalising parents who maintain their graves, why not approch the families off the graves that are kept untidy, ask them to sort it, if thwy dont then clear it away! Much easier and kinder!![/p][/quote]I am sorry you feel the need to be rude and offensive. I have kept my comment very polite and not referred to any particular grave but tried to be as objective as possible whilst passing on my opinions which are personal to my feelings. It seems that people like me are okay to upset and offend just because I would prefer a cemetery with grass and headstones. I do not know who you are but feel your comments very personal and hurtful and there was no need to use such language. Why should my opinion not matter in this case?? After all I should be allowed to have a say without being insulted. maryjj
  • Score: 23

5:55pm Fri 13 Jun 14

Woodgnome says...

Quite right maryjj. Sometimes less is more - and HMarie should try respecting other opinions without resorting to abuse.
Quite right maryjj. Sometimes less is more - and HMarie should try respecting other opinions without resorting to abuse. Woodgnome
  • Score: 22

9:40pm Fri 13 Jun 14

manager111 says...

It has been advised in this newspaper for at least the past 9 months, so you can not tell me that these people did not know the rules. It is a cemetery, not a playground.
It has been advised in this newspaper for at least the past 9 months, so you can not tell me that these people did not know the rules. It is a cemetery, not a playground. manager111
  • Score: 12

11:58pm Fri 13 Jun 14

HMarie says...

Woodgnome wrote:
HMarie wrote:
Woodgnome wrote:
anton88 wrote:
I don't see a problem with people putting personal items on graves, you see graves that are kept tidy and looked after by family members and others that are all run down. Why cant they keep their graves the way they want them without people getting involved and let them grieve in peace.
Because it's a PUBLIC cemetery Anton.
So look at the grave your visiting not the childrens! Most babies and children are buried seperately so what business is it off yours to take a walk over and have a look? None!
It's a PUBLIC place and there are no private areas. All areas are visible from most places. Do you expect visitors to wear blinkers? Be realistic.
Cwmbran and hollybush are hedged off!! Especially cwmbran youd have to go out of your way to see them!
[quote][p][bold]Woodgnome[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]HMarie[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Woodgnome[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]anton88[/bold] wrote: I don't see a problem with people putting personal items on graves, you see graves that are kept tidy and looked after by family members and others that are all run down. Why cant they keep their graves the way they want them without people getting involved and let them grieve in peace.[/p][/quote]Because it's a PUBLIC cemetery Anton.[/p][/quote]So look at the grave your visiting not the childrens! Most babies and children are buried seperately so what business is it off yours to take a walk over and have a look? None![/p][/quote]It's a PUBLIC place and there are no private areas. All areas are visible from most places. Do you expect visitors to wear blinkers? Be realistic.[/p][/quote]Cwmbran and hollybush are hedged off!! Especially cwmbran youd have to go out of your way to see them! HMarie
  • Score: 0

12:05am Sat 14 Jun 14

HMarie says...

maryjj wrote:
HMarie wrote:
maryjj wrote:
:( :( :( wrote:
To all you heartless ones who are writting sad stuff just to get more likes!
How would you feel if you had to bury your child?
how would you feel if you couldnt buy that child anything every again?
how would you feel if some1 came a threw all you childrens toys in the bin?

not once have i had a letter asking me to remove items!
not once have anyone phoned me to remove items!
not once has anyone sent me a copy of the new rules since they came out in 2011! so before you come on here shouting you big mouth off get your FACTS right !!!!
People are not being heartless, just realistic and I for one know exactly what it is like to bury a child. In fact I buried two. Every day I talk to them and wish they were here and I deal with the pain that will last until the day I take my final breath but they are dead and no amount of toys on their graves will bring them back or keep them company. They live with us in our souls and we should get comfort from that. It took me over ten years to pull myself out the quagmire of depression and start living again. When they were buried, there were few graves in the cemetery and now they are surrounded. Unfortunately, because there is no clear regulation about the size of monument or adornments or size of gravel bed put over our children by some, I now struggle to reach my children and in recent years have stopped visiting the cemetery as often as I would like because of the state it is in.In my opinion it looks dreadful and is not peaceful or serene or respectful. This is not a matter where emotion should take precedence. It is simply about maintenance and common sense. Maybe I feel differently because I never wanted my children covered in toys and gravel. I prefer flowers and simple mementos placed on the gravestone. I feel it is more fitting to the gentle souls that rest there. But this is the problem. We all have different tastes and ideas. Therefore, rules are put in place to ensure that there is uniformity. I do agree however that the whole issue should have been handled better by the council and all newly bereaved parents should be informed by funeral directors or monument erectors about the regulations and this would have saved a lot of pain.
Thats crap. I go there on a weekly basis and there is nothing hanging over your daughters graves. And there is just as much room around their graves as everyone else's. I wipe down your daughters headstones every now and againg to tidy them up. Most of us mums do that for each other. My daughter has been there for 8 years, which i appreciate is less than your children, but never the less i have never had a copy or even been informed of these new rules. Grief is a process, many people like myself NEED to leave pretty little items for their babies. As time passes and hearts begin to heal a little we feel less of a need. I myself removed the stones and edging off my daughters grave last year because i didnt feel i needed it anymore. Which may i add was laid by petersons so im **** sure it was the correct perimiter. Also, some babys are still born, my girl was 8 months, alot bigger than a newborn, bobbie was 3, again bigger, same for amber. So how can you say they only should be allowed a small area, meaning people would infact be walking over their bodies??? The council have gone about this completely the wrong way. Penalising parents who maintain their graves, why not approch the families off the graves that are kept untidy, ask them to sort it, if thwy dont then clear it away! Much easier and kinder!!
I am sorry you feel the need to be rude and offensive. I have kept my comment very polite and not referred to any particular grave but tried to be as objective as possible whilst passing on my opinions which are personal to my feelings. It seems that people like me are okay to upset and offend just because I would prefer a cemetery with grass and headstones. I do not know who you are but feel your comments very personal and hurtful and there was no need to use such language. Why should my opinion not matter in this case?? After all I should be allowed to have a say without being insulted.
Where in my comment is abusive?? If your refering to the *** i believe thats there because of it being a broken sentence. I didnt say your opinion is wrong, my daughters grave is exactly the same as yours. But in the same resoect why should other people be made to think the same way as us. Its not right. We are talking windmills and solar lights? Really how offensive are they? I find the headstones that have fallen over an sunken or the ones covered in brambles alot more offensive yet nothings being done about those. No one has the right to say whats ok and whats not when it comes to a greiving process.
[quote][p][bold]maryjj[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]HMarie[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]maryjj[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]:( :( :([/bold] wrote: To all you heartless ones who are writting sad stuff just to get more likes! How would you feel if you had to bury your child? how would you feel if you couldnt buy that child anything every again? how would you feel if some1 came a threw all you childrens toys in the bin? not once have i had a letter asking me to remove items! not once have anyone phoned me to remove items! not once has anyone sent me a copy of the new rules since they came out in 2011! so before you come on here shouting you big mouth off get your FACTS right !!!![/p][/quote]People are not being heartless, just realistic and I for one know exactly what it is like to bury a child. In fact I buried two. Every day I talk to them and wish they were here and I deal with the pain that will last until the day I take my final breath but they are dead and no amount of toys on their graves will bring them back or keep them company. They live with us in our souls and we should get comfort from that. It took me over ten years to pull myself out the quagmire of depression and start living again. When they were buried, there were few graves in the cemetery and now they are surrounded. Unfortunately, because there is no clear regulation about the size of monument or adornments or size of gravel bed put over our children by some, I now struggle to reach my children and in recent years have stopped visiting the cemetery as often as I would like because of the state it is in.In my opinion it looks dreadful and is not peaceful or serene or respectful. This is not a matter where emotion should take precedence. It is simply about maintenance and common sense. Maybe I feel differently because I never wanted my children covered in toys and gravel. I prefer flowers and simple mementos placed on the gravestone. I feel it is more fitting to the gentle souls that rest there. But this is the problem. We all have different tastes and ideas. Therefore, rules are put in place to ensure that there is uniformity. I do agree however that the whole issue should have been handled better by the council and all newly bereaved parents should be informed by funeral directors or monument erectors about the regulations and this would have saved a lot of pain.[/p][/quote]Thats crap. I go there on a weekly basis and there is nothing hanging over your daughters graves. And there is just as much room around their graves as everyone else's. I wipe down your daughters headstones every now and againg to tidy them up. Most of us mums do that for each other. My daughter has been there for 8 years, which i appreciate is less than your children, but never the less i have never had a copy or even been informed of these new rules. Grief is a process, many people like myself NEED to leave pretty little items for their babies. As time passes and hearts begin to heal a little we feel less of a need. I myself removed the stones and edging off my daughters grave last year because i didnt feel i needed it anymore. Which may i add was laid by petersons so im **** sure it was the correct perimiter. Also, some babys are still born, my girl was 8 months, alot bigger than a newborn, bobbie was 3, again bigger, same for amber. So how can you say they only should be allowed a small area, meaning people would infact be walking over their bodies??? The council have gone about this completely the wrong way. Penalising parents who maintain their graves, why not approch the families off the graves that are kept untidy, ask them to sort it, if thwy dont then clear it away! Much easier and kinder!![/p][/quote]I am sorry you feel the need to be rude and offensive. I have kept my comment very polite and not referred to any particular grave but tried to be as objective as possible whilst passing on my opinions which are personal to my feelings. It seems that people like me are okay to upset and offend just because I would prefer a cemetery with grass and headstones. I do not know who you are but feel your comments very personal and hurtful and there was no need to use such language. Why should my opinion not matter in this case?? After all I should be allowed to have a say without being insulted.[/p][/quote]Where in my comment is abusive?? If your refering to the *** i believe thats there because of it being a broken sentence. I didnt say your opinion is wrong, my daughters grave is exactly the same as yours. But in the same resoect why should other people be made to think the same way as us. Its not right. We are talking windmills and solar lights? Really how offensive are they? I find the headstones that have fallen over an sunken or the ones covered in brambles alot more offensive yet nothings being done about those. No one has the right to say whats ok and whats not when it comes to a greiving process. HMarie
  • Score: -6

12:14am Sat 14 Jun 14

HMarie says...

Woodgnome wrote:
HMarie wrote:
Woodgnome wrote:
anton88 wrote:
I don't see a problem with people putting personal items on graves, you see graves that are kept tidy and looked after by family members and others that are all run down. Why cant they keep their graves the way they want them without people getting involved and let them grieve in peace.
Because it's a PUBLIC cemetery Anton.
So look at the grave your visiting not the childrens! Most babies and children are buried seperately so what business is it off yours to take a walk over and have a look? None!
It's a PUBLIC place and there are no private areas. All areas are visible from most places. Do you expect visitors to wear blinkers? Be realistic.
Cwmbran and hollybush are hedged off!! Especially cwmbran youd have to go out of your way to see them!
[quote][p][bold]Woodgnome[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]HMarie[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Woodgnome[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]anton88[/bold] wrote: I don't see a problem with people putting personal items on graves, you see graves that are kept tidy and looked after by family members and others that are all run down. Why cant they keep their graves the way they want them without people getting involved and let them grieve in peace.[/p][/quote]Because it's a PUBLIC cemetery Anton.[/p][/quote]So look at the grave your visiting not the childrens! Most babies and children are buried seperately so what business is it off yours to take a walk over and have a look? None![/p][/quote]It's a PUBLIC place and there are no private areas. All areas are visible from most places. Do you expect visitors to wear blinkers? Be realistic.[/p][/quote]Cwmbran and hollybush are hedged off!! Especially cwmbran youd have to go out of your way to see them! HMarie
  • Score: -2

7:07am Sat 14 Jun 14

Woodgnome says...

HHMarie "No one has the right to say what's ok and what's not when it comes to a grieving process".
I agree - except when the process impacts on other people who are also grieving and don't wish to see Poundland displays. I repeat - these are PUBLIC places not a private places. Many people would say grieving is in the heart - not on display and they should also be respected.
HHMarie "No one has the right to say what's ok and what's not when it comes to a grieving process". I agree - except when the process impacts on other people who are also grieving and don't wish to see Poundland displays. I repeat - these are PUBLIC places not a private places. Many people would say grieving is in the heart - not on display and they should also be respected. Woodgnome
  • Score: 15

12:26pm Sat 14 Jun 14

HMarie says...

Woodgnome wrote:
HHMarie "No one has the right to say what's ok and what's not when it comes to a grieving process".
I agree - except when the process impacts on other people who are also grieving and don't wish to see Poundland displays. I repeat - these are PUBLIC places not a private places. Many people would say grieving is in the heart - not on display and they should also be respected.
Poundland displays?? Im confused?? Alot of people pay alot of money for the items on graves. Its costs well over £100 everytime you change gravel/stones. Windmills may cost a pound odd lovely but the majority of it doesnt.
[quote][p][bold]Woodgnome[/bold] wrote: HHMarie "No one has the right to say what's ok and what's not when it comes to a grieving process". I agree - except when the process impacts on other people who are also grieving and don't wish to see Poundland displays. I repeat - these are PUBLIC places not a private places. Many people would say grieving is in the heart - not on display and they should also be respected.[/p][/quote]Poundland displays?? Im confused?? Alot of people pay alot of money for the items on graves. Its costs well over £100 everytime you change gravel/stones. Windmills may cost a pound odd lovely but the majority of it doesnt. HMarie
  • Score: -10

1:29pm Sat 14 Jun 14

manager111 says...

What ever these windmills or solar lights cost, they look a mess, why have solar lights and windmills in a cemetery, a cemetery is a place where people go to reflect on the person that has died, the dead do not see the solar lights, and I bet that none of you that have put the solar lights on the graves, actually go to the graves at night time.

Respect other people that do not want wind chimes, windmills, and broken bits of plastic blown all across their own relatives graves. This has been public news for a long time that these tacky ornaments were to be removed, you had a chance to remove them yourselves, but didn't, so the council are removing them for you, which you were already warned they would do. End Of. Unless of course you are all looking for compensation, to pay for the tacky ornaments.
What ever these windmills or solar lights cost, they look a mess, why have solar lights and windmills in a cemetery, a cemetery is a place where people go to reflect on the person that has died, the dead do not see the solar lights, and I bet that none of you that have put the solar lights on the graves, actually go to the graves at night time. Respect other people that do not want wind chimes, windmills, and broken bits of plastic blown all across their own relatives graves. This has been public news for a long time that these tacky ornaments were to be removed, you had a chance to remove them yourselves, but didn't, so the council are removing them for you, which you were already warned they would do. End Of. Unless of course you are all looking for compensation, to pay for the tacky ornaments. manager111
  • Score: 10

1:49pm Sat 14 Jun 14

manager111 says...

:( :( :( wrote:
Floppy backed wrote:
A cemetery is for stones and plaques only. It is not the suitable place for items that can be blown about, cause grass cutting problems and turn the place into a disney shop. As much as I feel for those grieving the cemetery is a place for everyone to visit and should conform to rules and regulations. At home you can do what you want. Torfaen are correct on this occasion.
how can we do what we want at home if our children and loved ones are no longer with us ????
Well did you really need a grave, if you wanted the deceased close to you, they could have been cremated, you could have put the ashes in your garden or even living room and built a shrine there.
[quote][p][bold]:( :( :([/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Floppy backed[/bold] wrote: A cemetery is for stones and plaques only. It is not the suitable place for items that can be blown about, cause grass cutting problems and turn the place into a disney shop. As much as I feel for those grieving the cemetery is a place for everyone to visit and should conform to rules and regulations. At home you can do what you want. Torfaen are correct on this occasion.[/p][/quote]how can we do what we want at home if our children and loved ones are no longer with us ????[/p][/quote]Well did you really need a grave, if you wanted the deceased close to you, they could have been cremated, you could have put the ashes in your garden or even living room and built a shrine there. manager111
  • Score: -1

2:52pm Sat 14 Jun 14

cornucopia of crapitude says...

When I die I want to be cremated and for my ashes to be blown in councillors' faces at a full council meeting of Torfaen count your dough Council.
When I die I want to be cremated and for my ashes to be blown in councillors' faces at a full council meeting of Torfaen count your dough Council. cornucopia of crapitude
  • Score: -4

4:21pm Sat 14 Jun 14

Mo Davies says...

In my view the families have paid for the plot of ground for burial. It is their property so therefore they should be able to put memento's there if they want. It is desecration of a grave pure and simple...
In my view the families have paid for the plot of ground for burial. It is their property so therefore they should be able to put memento's there if they want. It is desecration of a grave pure and simple... Mo Davies
  • Score: -8

4:44pm Sat 14 Jun 14

cat1975 says...

I would like to just say that i had permission to do the gravel and fence 10 yrs ago around my sons grave from the council themselves!!!! So therefore i do not think it is now fair that they say no. I would also like to point out that you can infact walk past my sons easier than you can with the headstones i also cut all the grass around the grave and make sure there are no weeds on there. As i see it if they were all still alive you would not have them all dressed the same so therefore why should every grave look the same!!!! My personal argument with the council is as i said why give permission if it is not allowed and i also have never ever once received a copy of their rules and regulations and will be honest with you have never really thought i should check them every year to see if anything has altered as i assume most people wouldnt do either.
I would like to just say that i had permission to do the gravel and fence 10 yrs ago around my sons grave from the council themselves!!!! So therefore i do not think it is now fair that they say no. I would also like to point out that you can infact walk past my sons easier than you can with the headstones i also cut all the grass around the grave and make sure there are no weeds on there. As i see it if they were all still alive you would not have them all dressed the same so therefore why should every grave look the same!!!! My personal argument with the council is as i said why give permission if it is not allowed and i also have never ever once received a copy of their rules and regulations and will be honest with you have never really thought i should check them every year to see if anything has altered as i assume most people wouldnt do either. cat1975
  • Score: 4

5:07pm Sat 14 Jun 14

cat1975 says...

Could i also just mention seen as we are banging on about rules and regulations!!!! They have a rule that says should anything that is not allowed be found on a grave they will contact you and hold it for you to collect within 28 days which they are not abiding by they are throwing everything away now if there are rules and they have to be abided by then shouldnt they do the same????
Could i also just mention seen as we are banging on about rules and regulations!!!! They have a rule that says should anything that is not allowed be found on a grave they will contact you and hold it for you to collect within 28 days which they are not abiding by they are throwing everything away now if there are rules and they have to be abided by then shouldnt they do the same???? cat1975
  • Score: 0

5:22pm Sat 14 Jun 14

manager111 says...

Mo Davies wrote:
In my view the families have paid for the plot of ground for burial. It is their property so therefore they should be able to put memento's there if they want. It is desecration of a grave pure and simple...
So it would be the same as far as you are concerned, that if someone bought a field, and decorated it with gypsy caravans, windmills, and plastic bunting, and made the place look an eyesore you would not object, because this is what these people, that own these graveplots, have done. Made the cemetery look like an eyesore, and desecrating the graves of other people.
[quote][p][bold]Mo Davies[/bold] wrote: In my view the families have paid for the plot of ground for burial. It is their property so therefore they should be able to put memento's there if they want. It is desecration of a grave pure and simple...[/p][/quote]So it would be the same as far as you are concerned, that if someone bought a field, and decorated it with gypsy caravans, windmills, and plastic bunting, and made the place look an eyesore you would not object, because this is what these people, that own these graveplots, have done. Made the cemetery look like an eyesore, and desecrating the graves of other people. manager111
  • Score: 5

5:29pm Sat 14 Jun 14

manager111 says...

cat1975 wrote:
Could i also just mention seen as we are banging on about rules and regulations!!!! They have a rule that says should anything that is not allowed be found on a grave they will contact you and hold it for you to collect within 28 days which they are not abiding by they are throwing everything away now if there are rules and they have to be abided by then shouldnt they do the same????
These people have known since the end of last year that these tacky ornaments were to be removed. They had more than 28 days notice, to remove the rubbish. BUT they chose not to.
[quote][p][bold]cat1975[/bold] wrote: Could i also just mention seen as we are banging on about rules and regulations!!!! They have a rule that says should anything that is not allowed be found on a grave they will contact you and hold it for you to collect within 28 days which they are not abiding by they are throwing everything away now if there are rules and they have to be abided by then shouldnt they do the same????[/p][/quote]These people have known since the end of last year that these tacky ornaments were to be removed. They had more than 28 days notice, to remove the rubbish. BUT they chose not to. manager111
  • Score: 6

6:10pm Sat 14 Jun 14

Woodgnome says...

Mo Davies wrote:
In my view the families have paid for the plot of ground for burial. It is their property so therefore they should be able to put memento's there if they want. It is desecration of a grave pure and simple...
The whole point is it's not Mo. It's a PUBLIC cemetery not a jigsaw of private plots.
[quote][p][bold]Mo Davies[/bold] wrote: In my view the families have paid for the plot of ground for burial. It is their property so therefore they should be able to put memento's there if they want. It is desecration of a grave pure and simple...[/p][/quote]The whole point is it's not Mo. It's a PUBLIC cemetery not a jigsaw of private plots. Woodgnome
  • Score: 9

6:18pm Sat 14 Jun 14

maryjj says...

HMarie wrote:
maryjj wrote:
HMarie wrote:
maryjj wrote:
:( :( :( wrote:
To all you heartless ones who are writting sad stuff just to get more likes!
How would you feel if you had to bury your child?
how would you feel if you couldnt buy that child anything every again?
how would you feel if some1 came a threw all you childrens toys in the bin?

not once have i had a letter asking me to remove items!
not once have anyone phoned me to remove items!
not once has anyone sent me a copy of the new rules since they came out in 2011! so before you come on here shouting you big mouth off get your FACTS right !!!!
People are not being heartless, just realistic and I for one know exactly what it is like to bury a child. In fact I buried two. Every day I talk to them and wish they were here and I deal with the pain that will last until the day I take my final breath but they are dead and no amount of toys on their graves will bring them back or keep them company. They live with us in our souls and we should get comfort from that. It took me over ten years to pull myself out the quagmire of depression and start living again. When they were buried, there were few graves in the cemetery and now they are surrounded. Unfortunately, because there is no clear regulation about the size of monument or adornments or size of gravel bed put over our children by some, I now struggle to reach my children and in recent years have stopped visiting the cemetery as often as I would like because of the state it is in.In my opinion it looks dreadful and is not peaceful or serene or respectful. This is not a matter where emotion should take precedence. It is simply about maintenance and common sense. Maybe I feel differently because I never wanted my children covered in toys and gravel. I prefer flowers and simple mementos placed on the gravestone. I feel it is more fitting to the gentle souls that rest there. But this is the problem. We all have different tastes and ideas. Therefore, rules are put in place to ensure that there is uniformity. I do agree however that the whole issue should have been handled better by the council and all newly bereaved parents should be informed by funeral directors or monument erectors about the regulations and this would have saved a lot of pain.
Thats crap. I go there on a weekly basis and there is nothing hanging over your daughters graves. And there is just as much room around their graves as everyone else's. I wipe down your daughters headstones every now and againg to tidy them up. Most of us mums do that for each other. My daughter has been there for 8 years, which i appreciate is less than your children, but never the less i have never had a copy or even been informed of these new rules. Grief is a process, many people like myself NEED to leave pretty little items for their babies. As time passes and hearts begin to heal a little we feel less of a need. I myself removed the stones and edging off my daughters grave last year because i didnt feel i needed it anymore. Which may i add was laid by petersons so im **** sure it was the correct perimiter. Also, some babys are still born, my girl was 8 months, alot bigger than a newborn, bobbie was 3, again bigger, same for amber. So how can you say they only should be allowed a small area, meaning people would infact be walking over their bodies??? The council have gone about this completely the wrong way. Penalising parents who maintain their graves, why not approch the families off the graves that are kept untidy, ask them to sort it, if thwy dont then clear it away! Much easier and kinder!!
I am sorry you feel the need to be rude and offensive. I have kept my comment very polite and not referred to any particular grave but tried to be as objective as possible whilst passing on my opinions which are personal to my feelings. It seems that people like me are okay to upset and offend just because I would prefer a cemetery with grass and headstones. I do not know who you are but feel your comments very personal and hurtful and there was no need to use such language. Why should my opinion not matter in this case?? After all I should be allowed to have a say without being insulted.
Where in my comment is abusive?? If your refering to the *** i believe thats there because of it being a broken sentence. I didnt say your opinion is wrong, my daughters grave is exactly the same as yours. But in the same resoect why should other people be made to think the same way as us. Its not right. We are talking windmills and solar lights? Really how offensive are they? I find the headstones that have fallen over an sunken or the ones covered in brambles alot more offensive yet nothings being done about those. No one has the right to say whats ok and whats not when it comes to a greiving process.
When I expressed my opinion it was not to become embroiled in a tit for tat argument but to simply offer a balance to an article which personally involves me but does not reflect my view.
But, in answer to your question; by starting your reply with 'That's crap' you make it very clear that you believe my opinion to be wrong and your use of the word 'crap' is rather rude and sets an unpleasant tone for the rest of your comment. Also the use of asterisks mid sentence in computer forums usually implies a replacement for a profanity. This enables the writer to overcome the word filter South Wales Argus deploys to prevent swear words being published and causing offence. If you indeed intended a break in your sentence it really would have made no sense whatsoever.
The reason lawn cemeteries became more widely used in the UK was due to the inability to maintain and keep them bramble and weed free, around small and larger monuments popular in Victorian and Edwardian times, but which seem to be having a resurgence in recent years. Without this long term maintenance all cemeteries will eventually resemble the aged, collapsed and overgrown ones that we see around us today. Unfortunately, we are not talking about simply a few windmills and no one is dictating what is or isn't okay when it comes to the grieving process but simply how to maintain the areas to provide a cared for cemetery for every single member of this county, not just the few and one which will not only be manageable today but will also be possible in the future when we are long gone.
However, I have always agreed that the council could have handled this delicate situation in a much better fashion. Regardless of how many letters had to be written then maybe that should have been done. But, in their defence it was published in a free Torfaen Talks magazine many months ago which would have been distributed to every member of Torfaen Borough Council.
We may always have different views about what is acceptable displays in a cemetery and that is a good thing. People should be able to have different views and express them without fear of conflict.
[quote][p][bold]HMarie[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]maryjj[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]HMarie[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]maryjj[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]:( :( :([/bold] wrote: To all you heartless ones who are writting sad stuff just to get more likes! How would you feel if you had to bury your child? how would you feel if you couldnt buy that child anything every again? how would you feel if some1 came a threw all you childrens toys in the bin? not once have i had a letter asking me to remove items! not once have anyone phoned me to remove items! not once has anyone sent me a copy of the new rules since they came out in 2011! so before you come on here shouting you big mouth off get your FACTS right !!!![/p][/quote]People are not being heartless, just realistic and I for one know exactly what it is like to bury a child. In fact I buried two. Every day I talk to them and wish they were here and I deal with the pain that will last until the day I take my final breath but they are dead and no amount of toys on their graves will bring them back or keep them company. They live with us in our souls and we should get comfort from that. It took me over ten years to pull myself out the quagmire of depression and start living again. When they were buried, there were few graves in the cemetery and now they are surrounded. Unfortunately, because there is no clear regulation about the size of monument or adornments or size of gravel bed put over our children by some, I now struggle to reach my children and in recent years have stopped visiting the cemetery as often as I would like because of the state it is in.In my opinion it looks dreadful and is not peaceful or serene or respectful. This is not a matter where emotion should take precedence. It is simply about maintenance and common sense. Maybe I feel differently because I never wanted my children covered in toys and gravel. I prefer flowers and simple mementos placed on the gravestone. I feel it is more fitting to the gentle souls that rest there. But this is the problem. We all have different tastes and ideas. Therefore, rules are put in place to ensure that there is uniformity. I do agree however that the whole issue should have been handled better by the council and all newly bereaved parents should be informed by funeral directors or monument erectors about the regulations and this would have saved a lot of pain.[/p][/quote]Thats crap. I go there on a weekly basis and there is nothing hanging over your daughters graves. And there is just as much room around their graves as everyone else's. I wipe down your daughters headstones every now and againg to tidy them up. Most of us mums do that for each other. My daughter has been there for 8 years, which i appreciate is less than your children, but never the less i have never had a copy or even been informed of these new rules. Grief is a process, many people like myself NEED to leave pretty little items for their babies. As time passes and hearts begin to heal a little we feel less of a need. I myself removed the stones and edging off my daughters grave last year because i didnt feel i needed it anymore. Which may i add was laid by petersons so im **** sure it was the correct perimiter. Also, some babys are still born, my girl was 8 months, alot bigger than a newborn, bobbie was 3, again bigger, same for amber. So how can you say they only should be allowed a small area, meaning people would infact be walking over their bodies??? The council have gone about this completely the wrong way. Penalising parents who maintain their graves, why not approch the families off the graves that are kept untidy, ask them to sort it, if thwy dont then clear it away! Much easier and kinder!![/p][/quote]I am sorry you feel the need to be rude and offensive. I have kept my comment very polite and not referred to any particular grave but tried to be as objective as possible whilst passing on my opinions which are personal to my feelings. It seems that people like me are okay to upset and offend just because I would prefer a cemetery with grass and headstones. I do not know who you are but feel your comments very personal and hurtful and there was no need to use such language. Why should my opinion not matter in this case?? After all I should be allowed to have a say without being insulted.[/p][/quote]Where in my comment is abusive?? If your refering to the *** i believe thats there because of it being a broken sentence. I didnt say your opinion is wrong, my daughters grave is exactly the same as yours. But in the same resoect why should other people be made to think the same way as us. Its not right. We are talking windmills and solar lights? Really how offensive are they? I find the headstones that have fallen over an sunken or the ones covered in brambles alot more offensive yet nothings being done about those. No one has the right to say whats ok and whats not when it comes to a greiving process.[/p][/quote]When I expressed my opinion it was not to become embroiled in a tit for tat argument but to simply offer a balance to an article which personally involves me but does not reflect my view. But, in answer to your question; by starting your reply with 'That's crap' you make it very clear that you believe my opinion to be wrong and your use of the word 'crap' is rather rude and sets an unpleasant tone for the rest of your comment. Also the use of asterisks mid sentence in computer forums usually implies a replacement for a profanity. This enables the writer to overcome the word filter South Wales Argus deploys to prevent swear words being published and causing offence. If you indeed intended a break in your sentence it really would have made no sense whatsoever. The reason lawn cemeteries became more widely used in the UK was due to the inability to maintain and keep them bramble and weed free, around small and larger monuments popular in Victorian and Edwardian times, but which seem to be having a resurgence in recent years. Without this long term maintenance all cemeteries will eventually resemble the aged, collapsed and overgrown ones that we see around us today. Unfortunately, we are not talking about simply a few windmills and no one is dictating what is or isn't okay when it comes to the grieving process but simply how to maintain the areas to provide a cared for cemetery for every single member of this county, not just the few and one which will not only be manageable today but will also be possible in the future when we are long gone. However, I have always agreed that the council could have handled this delicate situation in a much better fashion. Regardless of how many letters had to be written then maybe that should have been done. But, in their defence it was published in a free Torfaen Talks magazine many months ago which would have been distributed to every member of Torfaen Borough Council. We may always have different views about what is acceptable displays in a cemetery and that is a good thing. People should be able to have different views and express them without fear of conflict. maryjj
  • Score: 9

9:32pm Sat 14 Jun 14

throwy1 says...

Maryjj, you are quite correct.
Prior to Council cemeteries the only place for a grave was the local parish graveyard. Over the years Local authorities have followed the guidelines of the Church. Local Authorities follow the guidelines of the Anglican Church and no you cannot have anything other than flowers on a grave. The only exception is made during the week that Armicedice Day falls and during the period between Remembrance Sunday and Armicedice Day falls artificial Poppy Wreathes may be laid.
Occassionally, a Bride may place her Boquete (artificial) on a grave but the item is usually removed within 24 hours
Maryjj, you are quite correct. Prior to Council cemeteries the only place for a grave was the local parish graveyard. Over the years Local authorities have followed the guidelines of the Church. Local Authorities follow the guidelines of the Anglican Church and no you cannot have anything other than flowers on a grave. The only exception is made during the week that Armicedice Day falls and during the period between Remembrance Sunday and Armicedice Day falls artificial Poppy Wreathes may be laid. Occassionally, a Bride may place her Boquete (artificial) on a grave but the item is usually removed within 24 hours throwy1
  • Score: 3

11:50pm Sat 14 Jun 14

displayed says...

This entire subject is both highly emotive an sensitive and has now resulted in lots of mud slinging an stinging personal attacks on people voicing their opinion as they r entitled to do so by this comments page!

Therefore:
If rules or recommendations cannot or will not be adhered to by the general public, what other rules are people prepared to ignore or break, because it doesn't suit them................
.......
This entire subject is both highly emotive an sensitive and has now resulted in lots of mud slinging an stinging personal attacks on people voicing their opinion as they r entitled to do so by this comments page! Therefore: If rules or recommendations cannot or will not be adhered to by the general public, what other rules are people prepared to ignore or break, because it doesn't suit them................ ....... displayed
  • Score: 4

4:30pm Sun 15 Jun 14

manager111 says...

displayed wrote:
This entire subject is both highly emotive an sensitive and has now resulted in lots of mud slinging an stinging personal attacks on people voicing their opinion as they r entitled to do so by this comments page!

Therefore:
If rules or recommendations cannot or will not be adhered to by the general public, what other rules are people prepared to ignore or break, because it doesn't suit them................

.......
Well my answer is that a lot of people think that rules should only be adhered to by everyone else, hence why this argument is going on. Some people do what they want when they want, and give no respect at all for there neighbours.
[quote][p][bold]displayed[/bold] wrote: This entire subject is both highly emotive an sensitive and has now resulted in lots of mud slinging an stinging personal attacks on people voicing their opinion as they r entitled to do so by this comments page! Therefore: If rules or recommendations cannot or will not be adhered to by the general public, what other rules are people prepared to ignore or break, because it doesn't suit them................ .......[/p][/quote]Well my answer is that a lot of people think that rules should only be adhered to by everyone else, hence why this argument is going on. Some people do what they want when they want, and give no respect at all for there neighbours. manager111
  • Score: 2

6:47pm Mon 16 Jun 14

dragonlady1 says...

You pay for the EXCLUSIVE RIGHT OF BURIAL and NOT for the plot, you never own the land, that always belong to either the Council or Church.
You pay for the EXCLUSIVE RIGHT OF BURIAL and NOT for the plot, you never own the land, that always belong to either the Council or Church. dragonlady1
  • Score: 3

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