Newport home to only six Jews

First published in News by

NEWPORT’S Jewish community is among the smallest in the UK, now counting just six members.

Members of the synagogue in Newport have said they have not been able to hold a service in over a year because of the low figures.

There are now only four remaining attendees of the synagogue from Newport, and two others from Blackwood, but resident Ronnie Black said it will only get smaller.

Mr Black, 70 from Newport, said: “The community is very small. There’s myself, Abraham Davidson, two others in their 90s and a couple in Blackwood.”

“People are dying and not been replaced with younger members, who have been moving to bigger cities.”

Statistics from the 2011 census show Newport's Jewish community is in the top five smallest communities in the UK.

The community, which celebrated its 150th anniversary in 2012, used to meet in a synagogue in Queen’s Hill but moved after they could no longer afford to run it.

Mr Black said: “Since 1993 we haven’t had a rabbi or leader. Abraham was doing it for a while but we can’t do a proper service if we don’t have 10 people. For three or four of us it’s not worth it.”

Last year the historical synagogue building, near Coed-Melyn Park, organised an open doors event in association with Cadw and welcomed 15 visitors, but numbers have not increased.

Mr Black said despite the small numbers, there are around 30 paying members who have burial rites for the cemetery next door.

Mr Black said: “Obviously it’s a shame. There used to be quite a lively community here but it’s the same all over.

Comments (46)

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12:33pm Thu 7 Aug 14

Paxman's Army says...

Not all of us have disappeared.

Every year, just before Christmas, my daughter brings in the menorah to school and says the prayer. . . Baruch ata Adonai. . .and teaches her classmates about the holiday.

It would be nice to create an online site where the Jews of South Wales, young and old. . .can get together and come up with ideas on how to protect the heritage. The community hasn't gone away yet. I would be happy to join in any endeavor that would keep the community from disintegrating.
Not all of us have disappeared. Every year, just before Christmas, my daughter brings in the menorah to school and says the prayer. . . Baruch ata Adonai. . .and teaches her classmates about the holiday. It would be nice to create an online site where the Jews of South Wales, young and old. . .can get together and come up with ideas on how to protect the heritage. The community hasn't gone away yet. I would be happy to join in any endeavor that would keep the community from disintegrating. Paxman's Army
  • Score: 21

12:54pm Thu 7 Aug 14

Katie Re-Registered says...

"Newport home to only six Jews"

Well, I know for a start that's not true, as if the census counted me there would have been six and a half:)

I suspect there are a lot more than six Jewish people living in Newport because the Census is only going on the 'what religion are you?' tick box - which many people didn't fill in as it was actually optional anyway. Add to this the fact that most Jewish people marry out and (although still usually very proud of their culture) have lapsed with regard to religious practices or simply aren't religious anymore then you have a very different picture. I think this is another example of how the information from the Census presents a distorted picture of 21st century Britain.

For instance, there were only two gender tick boxes and nothing for anyone who defines outside of the gender binary. I, personally, left the gender tick box blank and put an initial instead of a forename. So they haven't got any idea what gender I am at all now - after all, ask a stupid question, eh?;)
"Newport home to only six Jews" Well, I know for a start that's not true, as if the census counted me there would have been six and a half:) I suspect there are a lot more than six Jewish people living in Newport because the Census is only going on the 'what religion are you?' tick box - which many people didn't fill in as it was actually optional anyway. Add to this the fact that most Jewish people marry out and (although still usually very proud of their culture) have lapsed with regard to religious practices or simply aren't religious anymore then you have a very different picture. I think this is another example of how the information from the Census presents a distorted picture of 21st century Britain. For instance, there were only two gender tick boxes and nothing for anyone who defines outside of the gender binary. I, personally, left the gender tick box blank and put an initial instead of a forename. So they haven't got any idea what gender I am at all now - after all, ask a stupid question, eh?;) Katie Re-Registered
  • Score: -28

12:57pm Thu 7 Aug 14

KarloMarko says...

Really surprised at this. I grew up in Newport in the 50s not far from what was called "Jews Wood", the 'Jewish" cemetery. Is this because of a conscious move away from the Jewish faith and culture rather than ethnicity or origin?
Really surprised at this. I grew up in Newport in the 50s not far from what was called "Jews Wood", the 'Jewish" cemetery. Is this because of a conscious move away from the Jewish faith and culture rather than ethnicity or origin? KarloMarko
  • Score: 5

1:02pm Thu 7 Aug 14

Katie Re-Registered says...

KarloMarko wrote:
Really surprised at this. I grew up in Newport in the 50s not far from what was called "Jews Wood", the 'Jewish" cemetery. Is this because of a conscious move away from the Jewish faith and culture rather than ethnicity or origin?
With regard to certain of my Jewish relatives, the move away from Judaism seems to have been motivated mainly because the Jewish sabbath clashed with football, betting on the horses and various other 'sporting' activities which frustratingly also took place on a Saturday:)
[quote][p][bold]KarloMarko[/bold] wrote: Really surprised at this. I grew up in Newport in the 50s not far from what was called "Jews Wood", the 'Jewish" cemetery. Is this because of a conscious move away from the Jewish faith and culture rather than ethnicity or origin?[/p][/quote]With regard to certain of my Jewish relatives, the move away from Judaism seems to have been motivated mainly because the Jewish sabbath clashed with football, betting on the horses and various other 'sporting' activities which frustratingly also took place on a Saturday:) Katie Re-Registered
  • Score: 4

1:04pm Thu 7 Aug 14

Katie Re-Registered says...

Katie Re-Registered wrote:
KarloMarko wrote:
Really surprised at this. I grew up in Newport in the 50s not far from what was called "Jews Wood", the 'Jewish" cemetery. Is this because of a conscious move away from the Jewish faith and culture rather than ethnicity or origin?
With regard to certain of my Jewish relatives, the move away from Judaism seems to have been motivated mainly because the Jewish sabbath clashed with football, betting on the horses and various other 'sporting' activities which frustratingly also took place on a Saturday:)
Plus a fondness for bacon butties and other deliciously 'un-kosher' delicacies:)
[quote][p][bold]Katie Re-Registered[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]KarloMarko[/bold] wrote: Really surprised at this. I grew up in Newport in the 50s not far from what was called "Jews Wood", the 'Jewish" cemetery. Is this because of a conscious move away from the Jewish faith and culture rather than ethnicity or origin?[/p][/quote]With regard to certain of my Jewish relatives, the move away from Judaism seems to have been motivated mainly because the Jewish sabbath clashed with football, betting on the horses and various other 'sporting' activities which frustratingly also took place on a Saturday:)[/p][/quote]Plus a fondness for bacon butties and other deliciously 'un-kosher' delicacies:) Katie Re-Registered
  • Score: 6

1:19pm Thu 7 Aug 14

KarloMarko says...

Well maybe, but most of jews I have and do know seem quite happy to work around the ground rules! Seriously, if that headline figure for Newport is true (is it?) its a loss to us all. Even to me as an atheist. Jewish culture has produced some remarkable ideas and people. Not all jews by any means are flag waving apologists for the state of Israel. Despite what the latter claims.
Well maybe, but most of jews I have and do know seem quite happy to work around the ground rules! Seriously, if that headline figure for Newport is true (is it?) its a loss to us all. Even to me as an atheist. Jewish culture has produced some remarkable ideas and people. Not all jews by any means are flag waving apologists for the state of Israel. Despite what the latter claims. KarloMarko
  • Score: 17

1:21pm Thu 7 Aug 14

Paxman's Army says...

The reasons why they have gone? There are dozens of socio-economic reasons why Jewish communities have dwindled in places all around the world. Lack of jobs. Loss of synagogue. Disinterest. Intermarriage. Loss of orthodox/conservativ
e base that keeps community anchored. Delicious bacon and sausages. There are so many reasons.

But here's a question for readers. Should we let it die? Or is the community itself like some building that needs to be CADW-cared for? I don't have the answer to that. All I know is that if it does disappear for good, then future generations of Welsh children will have to travel to places far afield to learn more.

I'd like to be a part of something here. I'd like to be a part of a Jewish community in Wales. But where does one go? When I visited the synagogue in Cardiff, with it's prison-like fence, I was met by someone upstairs who demanded to know what I was doing there. When I tried to tell him, he told me I shouldn't be there unless invited and escorted me out. It shocked me. I'd never been to a shul like that. And I will never go again.
The reasons why they have gone? There are dozens of socio-economic reasons why Jewish communities have dwindled in places all around the world. Lack of jobs. Loss of synagogue. Disinterest. Intermarriage. Loss of orthodox/conservativ e base that keeps community anchored. Delicious bacon and sausages. There are so many reasons. But here's a question for readers. Should we let it die? Or is the community itself like some building that needs to be CADW-cared for? I don't have the answer to that. All I know is that if it does disappear for good, then future generations of Welsh children will have to travel to places far afield to learn more. I'd like to be a part of something here. I'd like to be a part of a Jewish community in Wales. But where does one go? When I visited the synagogue in Cardiff, with it's prison-like fence, I was met by someone upstairs who demanded to know what I was doing there. When I tried to tell him, he told me I shouldn't be there unless invited and escorted me out. It shocked me. I'd never been to a shul like that. And I will never go again. Paxman's Army
  • Score: 10

1:42pm Thu 7 Aug 14

Katie Re-Registered says...

Katie Re-Registered wrote:
Katie Re-Registered wrote:
KarloMarko wrote:
Really surprised at this. I grew up in Newport in the 50s not far from what was called "Jews Wood", the 'Jewish" cemetery. Is this because of a conscious move away from the Jewish faith and culture rather than ethnicity or origin?
With regard to certain of my Jewish relatives, the move away from Judaism seems to have been motivated mainly because the Jewish sabbath clashed with football, betting on the horses and various other 'sporting' activities which frustratingly also took place on a Saturday:)
Plus a fondness for bacon butties and other deliciously 'un-kosher' delicacies:)
No wonder us Jews are lapsing: when you're a catholic and go to confess your sins the priest blesses you and gives you a glass of wine and a biscuit whereas when you're Jewish and you admit to giving in to temptation you get loads of 'down arrows' from the local rabbi:)!
[quote][p][bold]Katie Re-Registered[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Katie Re-Registered[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]KarloMarko[/bold] wrote: Really surprised at this. I grew up in Newport in the 50s not far from what was called "Jews Wood", the 'Jewish" cemetery. Is this because of a conscious move away from the Jewish faith and culture rather than ethnicity or origin?[/p][/quote]With regard to certain of my Jewish relatives, the move away from Judaism seems to have been motivated mainly because the Jewish sabbath clashed with football, betting on the horses and various other 'sporting' activities which frustratingly also took place on a Saturday:)[/p][/quote]Plus a fondness for bacon butties and other deliciously 'un-kosher' delicacies:)[/p][/quote]No wonder us Jews are lapsing: when you're a catholic and go to confess your sins the priest blesses you and gives you a glass of wine and a biscuit whereas when you're Jewish and you admit to giving in to temptation you get loads of 'down arrows' from the local rabbi:)! Katie Re-Registered
  • Score: -11

3:17pm Thu 7 Aug 14

Good Job No Kids says...

Religion, what a waste of time and effort.
Religion, what a waste of time and effort. Good Job No Kids
  • Score: 9

3:21pm Thu 7 Aug 14

Stevenboy says...

Paxman's Army wrote:
The reasons why they have gone? There are dozens of socio-economic reasons why Jewish communities have dwindled in places all around the world. Lack of jobs. Loss of synagogue. Disinterest. Intermarriage. Loss of orthodox/conservativ

e base that keeps community anchored. Delicious bacon and sausages. There are so many reasons.

But here's a question for readers. Should we let it die? Or is the community itself like some building that needs to be CADW-cared for? I don't have the answer to that. All I know is that if it does disappear for good, then future generations of Welsh children will have to travel to places far afield to learn more.

I'd like to be a part of something here. I'd like to be a part of a Jewish community in Wales. But where does one go? When I visited the synagogue in Cardiff, with it's prison-like fence, I was met by someone upstairs who demanded to know what I was doing there. When I tried to tell him, he told me I shouldn't be there unless invited and escorted me out. It shocked me. I'd never been to a shul like that. And I will never go again.
'I'd like to be a part of something here. I'd like to be a part of a Jewish community in Wales. But where does one go?'

Israel? Just please don't suggest spreading more taxpayer dollars on it. WAG are stupid enough to do it.
[quote][p][bold]Paxman's Army[/bold] wrote: The reasons why they have gone? There are dozens of socio-economic reasons why Jewish communities have dwindled in places all around the world. Lack of jobs. Loss of synagogue. Disinterest. Intermarriage. Loss of orthodox/conservativ e base that keeps community anchored. Delicious bacon and sausages. There are so many reasons. But here's a question for readers. Should we let it die? Or is the community itself like some building that needs to be CADW-cared for? I don't have the answer to that. All I know is that if it does disappear for good, then future generations of Welsh children will have to travel to places far afield to learn more. I'd like to be a part of something here. I'd like to be a part of a Jewish community in Wales. But where does one go? When I visited the synagogue in Cardiff, with it's prison-like fence, I was met by someone upstairs who demanded to know what I was doing there. When I tried to tell him, he told me I shouldn't be there unless invited and escorted me out. It shocked me. I'd never been to a shul like that. And I will never go again.[/p][/quote]'I'd like to be a part of something here. I'd like to be a part of a Jewish community in Wales. But where does one go?' Israel? Just please don't suggest spreading more taxpayer dollars on it. WAG are stupid enough to do it. Stevenboy
  • Score: -10

3:32pm Thu 7 Aug 14

smokintheweed says...

Good Job No Kids wrote:
Religion, what a waste of time and effort.
Then why are you wasting your time and effort making pointless comments?
[quote][p][bold]Good Job No Kids[/bold] wrote: Religion, what a waste of time and effort.[/p][/quote]Then why are you wasting your time and effort making pointless comments? smokintheweed
  • Score: 4

3:50pm Thu 7 Aug 14

County says...

The 2011 census recorded 99 Jews which is actually an increase of 12 from the 2001 census!
The 2011 census recorded 99 Jews which is actually an increase of 12 from the 2001 census! County
  • Score: 8

4:26pm Thu 7 Aug 14

Katie Re-Registered says...

Stevenboy wrote:
Paxman's Army wrote:
The reasons why they have gone? There are dozens of socio-economic reasons why Jewish communities have dwindled in places all around the world. Lack of jobs. Loss of synagogue. Disinterest. Intermarriage. Loss of orthodox/conservativ


e base that keeps community anchored. Delicious bacon and sausages. There are so many reasons.

But here's a question for readers. Should we let it die? Or is the community itself like some building that needs to be CADW-cared for? I don't have the answer to that. All I know is that if it does disappear for good, then future generations of Welsh children will have to travel to places far afield to learn more.

I'd like to be a part of something here. I'd like to be a part of a Jewish community in Wales. But where does one go? When I visited the synagogue in Cardiff, with it's prison-like fence, I was met by someone upstairs who demanded to know what I was doing there. When I tried to tell him, he told me I shouldn't be there unless invited and escorted me out. It shocked me. I'd never been to a shul like that. And I will never go again.
'I'd like to be a part of something here. I'd like to be a part of a Jewish community in Wales. But where does one go?'

Israel? Just please don't suggest spreading more taxpayer dollars on it. WAG are stupid enough to do it.
But this has nothing to do with Israel. Paxman and many other Welsh Jews are happy enough being Welsh and Jewish. They don't want to change their nationality.
[quote][p][bold]Stevenboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Paxman's Army[/bold] wrote: The reasons why they have gone? There are dozens of socio-economic reasons why Jewish communities have dwindled in places all around the world. Lack of jobs. Loss of synagogue. Disinterest. Intermarriage. Loss of orthodox/conservativ e base that keeps community anchored. Delicious bacon and sausages. There are so many reasons. But here's a question for readers. Should we let it die? Or is the community itself like some building that needs to be CADW-cared for? I don't have the answer to that. All I know is that if it does disappear for good, then future generations of Welsh children will have to travel to places far afield to learn more. I'd like to be a part of something here. I'd like to be a part of a Jewish community in Wales. But where does one go? When I visited the synagogue in Cardiff, with it's prison-like fence, I was met by someone upstairs who demanded to know what I was doing there. When I tried to tell him, he told me I shouldn't be there unless invited and escorted me out. It shocked me. I'd never been to a shul like that. And I will never go again.[/p][/quote]'I'd like to be a part of something here. I'd like to be a part of a Jewish community in Wales. But where does one go?' Israel? Just please don't suggest spreading more taxpayer dollars on it. WAG are stupid enough to do it.[/p][/quote]But this has nothing to do with Israel. Paxman and many other Welsh Jews are happy enough being Welsh and Jewish. They don't want to change their nationality. Katie Re-Registered
  • Score: 11

4:33pm Thu 7 Aug 14

Stevenboy says...

Katie Re-Registered wrote:
Stevenboy wrote:
Paxman's Army wrote:
The reasons why they have gone? There are dozens of socio-economic reasons why Jewish communities have dwindled in places all around the world. Lack of jobs. Loss of synagogue. Disinterest. Intermarriage. Loss of orthodox/conservativ



e base that keeps community anchored. Delicious bacon and sausages. There are so many reasons.

But here's a question for readers. Should we let it die? Or is the community itself like some building that needs to be CADW-cared for? I don't have the answer to that. All I know is that if it does disappear for good, then future generations of Welsh children will have to travel to places far afield to learn more.

I'd like to be a part of something here. I'd like to be a part of a Jewish community in Wales. But where does one go? When I visited the synagogue in Cardiff, with it's prison-like fence, I was met by someone upstairs who demanded to know what I was doing there. When I tried to tell him, he told me I shouldn't be there unless invited and escorted me out. It shocked me. I'd never been to a shul like that. And I will never go again.
'I'd like to be a part of something here. I'd like to be a part of a Jewish community in Wales. But where does one go?'

Israel? Just please don't suggest spreading more taxpayer dollars on it. WAG are stupid enough to do it.
But this has nothing to do with Israel. Paxman and many other Welsh Jews are happy enough being Welsh and Jewish. They don't want to change their nationality.
I know. I was being facetious. Whenever anyone complains on here about money spent on propping up Welsh we are told to 'go live in England'. Overly subtle of me l admit.
[quote][p][bold]Katie Re-Registered[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stevenboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Paxman's Army[/bold] wrote: The reasons why they have gone? There are dozens of socio-economic reasons why Jewish communities have dwindled in places all around the world. Lack of jobs. Loss of synagogue. Disinterest. Intermarriage. Loss of orthodox/conservativ e base that keeps community anchored. Delicious bacon and sausages. There are so many reasons. But here's a question for readers. Should we let it die? Or is the community itself like some building that needs to be CADW-cared for? I don't have the answer to that. All I know is that if it does disappear for good, then future generations of Welsh children will have to travel to places far afield to learn more. I'd like to be a part of something here. I'd like to be a part of a Jewish community in Wales. But where does one go? When I visited the synagogue in Cardiff, with it's prison-like fence, I was met by someone upstairs who demanded to know what I was doing there. When I tried to tell him, he told me I shouldn't be there unless invited and escorted me out. It shocked me. I'd never been to a shul like that. And I will never go again.[/p][/quote]'I'd like to be a part of something here. I'd like to be a part of a Jewish community in Wales. But where does one go?' Israel? Just please don't suggest spreading more taxpayer dollars on it. WAG are stupid enough to do it.[/p][/quote]But this has nothing to do with Israel. Paxman and many other Welsh Jews are happy enough being Welsh and Jewish. They don't want to change their nationality.[/p][/quote]I know. I was being facetious. Whenever anyone complains on here about money spent on propping up Welsh we are told to 'go live in England'. Overly subtle of me l admit. Stevenboy
  • Score: -8

4:49pm Thu 7 Aug 14

Paxman's Army says...

How'd this get to be a Welsh language argument? Oy vey.

And as for No Job up there, I agree. Debating religion IS a pointless exercise. However, I would consider this a cultural issue. . not a religious one. Being Jewish is a cultural experience, much like being Welsh. In fact, Eastern European Jews had their own language that tied them together like glue. . and they used words like "Schnook" and "Schmendrik" (among others I won't post) to direct at people who make silly comments.
How'd this get to be a Welsh language argument? Oy vey. And as for No Job up there, I agree. Debating religion IS a pointless exercise. However, I would consider this a cultural issue. . not a religious one. Being Jewish is a cultural experience, much like being Welsh. In fact, Eastern European Jews had their own language that tied them together like glue. . and they used words like "Schnook" and "Schmendrik" (among others I won't post) to direct at people who make silly comments. Paxman's Army
  • Score: 6

4:52pm Thu 7 Aug 14

Stevenboy says...

Paxman's Army wrote:
How'd this get to be a Welsh language argument? Oy vey.

And as for No Job up there, I agree. Debating religion IS a pointless exercise. However, I would consider this a cultural issue. . not a religious one. Being Jewish is a cultural experience, much like being Welsh. In fact, Eastern European Jews had their own language that tied them together like glue. . and they used words like "Schnook" and "Schmendrik" (among others I won't post) to direct at people who make silly comments.
Yes but don't we have enough trouble here with groups not merging with British life? Isn't it a problem that cultures 'ghetto-ize' themselves?
[quote][p][bold]Paxman's Army[/bold] wrote: How'd this get to be a Welsh language argument? Oy vey. And as for No Job up there, I agree. Debating religion IS a pointless exercise. However, I would consider this a cultural issue. . not a religious one. Being Jewish is a cultural experience, much like being Welsh. In fact, Eastern European Jews had their own language that tied them together like glue. . and they used words like "Schnook" and "Schmendrik" (among others I won't post) to direct at people who make silly comments.[/p][/quote]Yes but don't we have enough trouble here with groups not merging with British life? Isn't it a problem that cultures 'ghetto-ize' themselves? Stevenboy
  • Score: -1

5:18pm Thu 7 Aug 14

Paxman's Army says...

First off BoySteven. . that's a silly thing to say. Jews have been in Britain since Cromwell. And before. If you look into it, you'll see those Plantagenet castles all over Wales weren't paid for by a pleasant opening of the King's purse but a rather sad event in the Jewish history of this island. Jews have a rich history here. . .as do Muslims and Indians and people from the Caribbean and on and on. Britain, bless it, is one of the most accepting nations on Earth, and I would say most immigrants. . an overwhelming majority. ..realise that and appreciate it.

All countries have trouble with troublemakers. It's just a shame they are the ones that make the news more.

But we're not talking about if groups have a place here or not. This article was about the disintegration of a community. . once alive and rrich. . and now dwindled to just a few. How important is it to Newport and South Wales to have that heritage survive here? Is it worth remembering? Is it worth protecting? I can't answer that. But what I can say is, if I was asked to help, I would.
First off BoySteven. . that's a silly thing to say. Jews have been in Britain since Cromwell. And before. If you look into it, you'll see those Plantagenet castles all over Wales weren't paid for by a pleasant opening of the King's purse but a rather sad event in the Jewish history of this island. Jews have a rich history here. . .as do Muslims and Indians and people from the Caribbean and on and on. Britain, bless it, is one of the most accepting nations on Earth, and I would say most immigrants. . an overwhelming majority. ..realise that and appreciate it. All countries have trouble with troublemakers. It's just a shame they are the ones that make the news more. But we're not talking about if groups have a place here or not. This article was about the disintegration of a community. . once alive and rrich. . and now dwindled to just a few. How important is it to Newport and South Wales to have that heritage survive here? Is it worth remembering? Is it worth protecting? I can't answer that. But what I can say is, if I was asked to help, I would. Paxman's Army
  • Score: 16

7:59pm Thu 7 Aug 14

Katie Re-Registered says...

Stevenboy wrote:
Paxman's Army wrote:
How'd this get to be a Welsh language argument? Oy vey.

And as for No Job up there, I agree. Debating religion IS a pointless exercise. However, I would consider this a cultural issue. . not a religious one. Being Jewish is a cultural experience, much like being Welsh. In fact, Eastern European Jews had their own language that tied them together like glue. . and they used words like "Schnook" and "Schmendrik" (among others I won't post) to direct at people who make silly comments.
Yes but don't we have enough trouble here with groups not merging with British life? Isn't it a problem that cultures 'ghetto-ize' themselves?
Stevenboy, you need to visit a British military cemetery some time and take a look at the amount of graves bearing Stars of David on their headstones belonging to British soldiers of Jewish extraction who died sacrificing themselves for this country - not only as far back as the two world wars but all the way back to the 18th century. In fact, there is an anecdote about George III inspecting his troops and when curious to know how many of them had 'German'-sounding names was informed that his army contained a disproportionate number of Jewish subjects who wished to express their loyalty and patriotism by serving their king. As Paxo says Jewish people have been in this country since at least the 1650s when they were readmitted by Oliver Cromwell and have participated fully in its development since then. They died for the freedom that you have now wasting with trying to suggest British Jews are somehow not as authentically British as you feel yourself to be. Incidentally, Newport MP Paul Flynn made exactly the same mistake as you by suggesting that British Jews should not be allowed to fill certain government positions because he felt they are not of 'British ancestry'.
[quote][p][bold]Stevenboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Paxman's Army[/bold] wrote: How'd this get to be a Welsh language argument? Oy vey. And as for No Job up there, I agree. Debating religion IS a pointless exercise. However, I would consider this a cultural issue. . not a religious one. Being Jewish is a cultural experience, much like being Welsh. In fact, Eastern European Jews had their own language that tied them together like glue. . and they used words like "Schnook" and "Schmendrik" (among others I won't post) to direct at people who make silly comments.[/p][/quote]Yes but don't we have enough trouble here with groups not merging with British life? Isn't it a problem that cultures 'ghetto-ize' themselves?[/p][/quote]Stevenboy, you need to visit a British military cemetery some time and take a look at the amount of graves bearing Stars of David on their headstones belonging to British soldiers of Jewish extraction who died sacrificing themselves for this country - not only as far back as the two world wars but all the way back to the 18th century. In fact, there is an anecdote about George III inspecting his troops and when curious to know how many of them had 'German'-sounding names was informed that his army contained a disproportionate number of Jewish subjects who wished to express their loyalty and patriotism by serving their king. As Paxo says Jewish people have been in this country since at least the 1650s when they were readmitted by Oliver Cromwell and have participated fully in its development since then. They died for the freedom that you have now wasting with trying to suggest British Jews are somehow not as authentically British as you feel yourself to be. Incidentally, Newport MP Paul Flynn made exactly the same mistake as you by suggesting that British Jews should not be allowed to fill certain government positions because he felt they are not of 'British ancestry'. Katie Re-Registered
  • Score: 10

10:48pm Thu 7 Aug 14

dragonlady1 says...

Katie Re-Registered wrote:
Katie Re-Registered wrote:
Katie Re-Registered wrote:
KarloMarko wrote:
Really surprised at this. I grew up in Newport in the 50s not far from what was called "Jews Wood", the 'Jewish" cemetery. Is this because of a conscious move away from the Jewish faith and culture rather than ethnicity or origin?
With regard to certain of my Jewish relatives, the move away from Judaism seems to have been motivated mainly because the Jewish sabbath clashed with football, betting on the horses and various other 'sporting' activities which frustratingly also took place on a Saturday:)
Plus a fondness for bacon butties and other deliciously 'un-kosher' delicacies:)
No wonder us Jews are lapsing: when you're a catholic and go to confess your sins the priest blesses you and gives you a glass of wine and a biscuit whereas when you're Jewish and you admit to giving in to temptation you get loads of 'down arrows' from the local rabbi:)!
No wonder us Jews are lapsing: when you're a catholic and go to confess your sins the priest blesses you and gives you a glass of wine and a biscuit whereas when you're Jewish and you admit to giving in to temptation you get loads of 'down arrows' from the local rabbi:)! Katie Re-Registered if you are going to quote on another religion then get it right , as a Roman Catholic when you confess your sins the Priest does not give you a glass of wine and a biscuit (as it isn't a biscuit anyway), he gives you a penance.
[quote][p][bold]Katie Re-Registered[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Katie Re-Registered[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Katie Re-Registered[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]KarloMarko[/bold] wrote: Really surprised at this. I grew up in Newport in the 50s not far from what was called "Jews Wood", the 'Jewish" cemetery. Is this because of a conscious move away from the Jewish faith and culture rather than ethnicity or origin?[/p][/quote]With regard to certain of my Jewish relatives, the move away from Judaism seems to have been motivated mainly because the Jewish sabbath clashed with football, betting on the horses and various other 'sporting' activities which frustratingly also took place on a Saturday:)[/p][/quote]Plus a fondness for bacon butties and other deliciously 'un-kosher' delicacies:)[/p][/quote]No wonder us Jews are lapsing: when you're a catholic and go to confess your sins the priest blesses you and gives you a glass of wine and a biscuit whereas when you're Jewish and you admit to giving in to temptation you get loads of 'down arrows' from the local rabbi:)![/p][/quote]No wonder us Jews are lapsing: when you're a catholic and go to confess your sins the priest blesses you and gives you a glass of wine and a biscuit whereas when you're Jewish and you admit to giving in to temptation you get loads of 'down arrows' from the local rabbi:)! Katie Re-Registered if you are going to quote on another religion then get it right , as a Roman Catholic when you confess your sins the Priest does not give you a glass of wine and a biscuit (as it isn't a biscuit anyway), he gives you a penance. dragonlady1
  • Score: 2

10:52pm Thu 7 Aug 14

Stevenboy says...

Katie Re-Registered wrote:
Stevenboy wrote:
Paxman's Army wrote:
How'd this get to be a Welsh language argument? Oy vey.

And as for No Job up there, I agree. Debating religion IS a pointless exercise. However, I would consider this a cultural issue. . not a religious one. Being Jewish is a cultural experience, much like being Welsh. In fact, Eastern European Jews had their own language that tied them together like glue. . and they used words like "Schnook" and "Schmendrik" (among others I won't post) to direct at people who make silly comments.
Yes but don't we have enough trouble here with groups not merging with British life? Isn't it a problem that cultures 'ghetto-ize' themselves?
Stevenboy, you need to visit a British military cemetery some time and take a look at the amount of graves bearing Stars of David on their headstones belonging to British soldiers of Jewish extraction who died sacrificing themselves for this country - not only as far back as the two world wars but all the way back to the 18th century. In fact, there is an anecdote about George III inspecting his troops and when curious to know how many of them had 'German'-sounding names was informed that his army contained a disproportionate number of Jewish subjects who wished to express their loyalty and patriotism by serving their king. As Paxo says Jewish people have been in this country since at least the 1650s when they were readmitted by Oliver Cromwell and have participated fully in its development since then. They died for the freedom that you have now wasting with trying to suggest British Jews are somehow not as authentically British as you feel yourself to be. Incidentally, Newport MP Paul Flynn made exactly the same mistake as you by suggesting that British Jews should not be allowed to fill certain government positions because he felt they are not of 'British ancestry'.
Not what I said at all. I questioned the suggestion that Jewish communities are somehow desirable where other groups are considered ghettos. I did not not would not decry Jewish contribution to history or Western life. The comment re WAG was tongue in cheek. Lighten up.
[quote][p][bold]Katie Re-Registered[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stevenboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Paxman's Army[/bold] wrote: How'd this get to be a Welsh language argument? Oy vey. And as for No Job up there, I agree. Debating religion IS a pointless exercise. However, I would consider this a cultural issue. . not a religious one. Being Jewish is a cultural experience, much like being Welsh. In fact, Eastern European Jews had their own language that tied them together like glue. . and they used words like "Schnook" and "Schmendrik" (among others I won't post) to direct at people who make silly comments.[/p][/quote]Yes but don't we have enough trouble here with groups not merging with British life? Isn't it a problem that cultures 'ghetto-ize' themselves?[/p][/quote]Stevenboy, you need to visit a British military cemetery some time and take a look at the amount of graves bearing Stars of David on their headstones belonging to British soldiers of Jewish extraction who died sacrificing themselves for this country - not only as far back as the two world wars but all the way back to the 18th century. In fact, there is an anecdote about George III inspecting his troops and when curious to know how many of them had 'German'-sounding names was informed that his army contained a disproportionate number of Jewish subjects who wished to express their loyalty and patriotism by serving their king. As Paxo says Jewish people have been in this country since at least the 1650s when they were readmitted by Oliver Cromwell and have participated fully in its development since then. They died for the freedom that you have now wasting with trying to suggest British Jews are somehow not as authentically British as you feel yourself to be. Incidentally, Newport MP Paul Flynn made exactly the same mistake as you by suggesting that British Jews should not be allowed to fill certain government positions because he felt they are not of 'British ancestry'.[/p][/quote]Not what I said at all. I questioned the suggestion that Jewish communities are somehow desirable where other groups are considered ghettos. I did not not would not decry Jewish contribution to history or Western life. The comment re WAG was tongue in cheek. Lighten up. Stevenboy
  • Score: -1

12:12am Fri 8 Aug 14

DavidMclean says...

People need to start being realistic about religion in 21st Century Britain. Whatever the religion - be it Christianity, CofE, Catholicism, Islam, Judaiism etc -ALL of them dilute and give way to the underlying commercialism that is the REAL religion our society worships. So churches, mosques and sinagogues have fewer people, and the old guard give way to youngsters who show less commitment to the religion. Most of us are Christians on paper but never go to church apart from weddings and funerals and have happily let the Christian message of Easter and Christmas be replaced by chocolate, commercialism and hedonism. Frankly, I think that's a good thing. The sooner religion evaporates, the better.
People need to start being realistic about religion in 21st Century Britain. Whatever the religion - be it Christianity, CofE, Catholicism, Islam, Judaiism etc -ALL of them dilute and give way to the underlying commercialism that is the REAL religion our society worships. So churches, mosques and sinagogues have fewer people, and the old guard give way to youngsters who show less commitment to the religion. Most of us are Christians on paper but never go to church apart from weddings and funerals and have happily let the Christian message of Easter and Christmas be replaced by chocolate, commercialism and hedonism. Frankly, I think that's a good thing. The sooner religion evaporates, the better. DavidMclean
  • Score: -4

2:08am Fri 8 Aug 14

smokintheweed says...

DavidMclean wrote:
People need to start being realistic about religion in 21st Century Britain. Whatever the religion - be it Christianity, CofE, Catholicism, Islam, Judaiism etc -ALL of them dilute and give way to the underlying commercialism that is the REAL religion our society worships. So churches, mosques and sinagogues have fewer people, and the old guard give way to youngsters who show less commitment to the religion. Most of us are Christians on paper but never go to church apart from weddings and funerals and have happily let the Christian message of Easter and Christmas be replaced by chocolate, commercialism and hedonism. Frankly, I think that's a good thing. The sooner religion evaporates, the better.
So you are saying that people who follow an ethical code that has been taught to them from early life to try to be a good person is a bad thing? Religion rarely works out but are you telling me you have all the answers?
[quote][p][bold]DavidMclean[/bold] wrote: People need to start being realistic about religion in 21st Century Britain. Whatever the religion - be it Christianity, CofE, Catholicism, Islam, Judaiism etc -ALL of them dilute and give way to the underlying commercialism that is the REAL religion our society worships. So churches, mosques and sinagogues have fewer people, and the old guard give way to youngsters who show less commitment to the religion. Most of us are Christians on paper but never go to church apart from weddings and funerals and have happily let the Christian message of Easter and Christmas be replaced by chocolate, commercialism and hedonism. Frankly, I think that's a good thing. The sooner religion evaporates, the better.[/p][/quote]So you are saying that people who follow an ethical code that has been taught to them from early life to try to be a good person is a bad thing? Religion rarely works out but are you telling me you have all the answers? smokintheweed
  • Score: 0

6:18am Fri 8 Aug 14

Katie Re-Registered says...

dragonlady1 wrote:
Katie Re-Registered wrote:
Katie Re-Registered wrote:
Katie Re-Registered wrote:
KarloMarko wrote:
Really surprised at this. I grew up in Newport in the 50s not far from what was called "Jews Wood", the 'Jewish" cemetery. Is this because of a conscious move away from the Jewish faith and culture rather than ethnicity or origin?
With regard to certain of my Jewish relatives, the move away from Judaism seems to have been motivated mainly because the Jewish sabbath clashed with football, betting on the horses and various other 'sporting' activities which frustratingly also took place on a Saturday:)
Plus a fondness for bacon butties and other deliciously 'un-kosher' delicacies:)
No wonder us Jews are lapsing: when you're a catholic and go to confess your sins the priest blesses you and gives you a glass of wine and a biscuit whereas when you're Jewish and you admit to giving in to temptation you get loads of 'down arrows' from the local rabbi:)!
No wonder us Jews are lapsing: when you're a catholic and go to confess your sins the priest blesses you and gives you a glass of wine and a biscuit whereas when you're Jewish and you admit to giving in to temptation you get loads of 'down arrows' from the local rabbi:)! Katie Re-Registered if you are going to quote on another religion then get it right , as a Roman Catholic when you confess your sins the Priest does not give you a glass of wine and a biscuit (as it isn't a biscuit anyway), he gives you a penance.
I think it's called having a sense of humour, Dragonlady - which you obviously seem to lack.
[quote][p][bold]dragonlady1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Katie Re-Registered[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Katie Re-Registered[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Katie Re-Registered[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]KarloMarko[/bold] wrote: Really surprised at this. I grew up in Newport in the 50s not far from what was called "Jews Wood", the 'Jewish" cemetery. Is this because of a conscious move away from the Jewish faith and culture rather than ethnicity or origin?[/p][/quote]With regard to certain of my Jewish relatives, the move away from Judaism seems to have been motivated mainly because the Jewish sabbath clashed with football, betting on the horses and various other 'sporting' activities which frustratingly also took place on a Saturday:)[/p][/quote]Plus a fondness for bacon butties and other deliciously 'un-kosher' delicacies:)[/p][/quote]No wonder us Jews are lapsing: when you're a catholic and go to confess your sins the priest blesses you and gives you a glass of wine and a biscuit whereas when you're Jewish and you admit to giving in to temptation you get loads of 'down arrows' from the local rabbi:)![/p][/quote]No wonder us Jews are lapsing: when you're a catholic and go to confess your sins the priest blesses you and gives you a glass of wine and a biscuit whereas when you're Jewish and you admit to giving in to temptation you get loads of 'down arrows' from the local rabbi:)! Katie Re-Registered if you are going to quote on another religion then get it right , as a Roman Catholic when you confess your sins the Priest does not give you a glass of wine and a biscuit (as it isn't a biscuit anyway), he gives you a penance.[/p][/quote]I think it's called having a sense of humour, Dragonlady - which you obviously seem to lack. Katie Re-Registered
  • Score: -1

6:29am Fri 8 Aug 14

Katie Re-Registered says...

But, yeah, it is actually the body of Christ as opposed to the biscuit, and besides it looks more like a Pringle anyway. Always look on the bright side of life, eh? Oops I'm not the Anti-Christ just a very naughty girl;)
But, yeah, it is actually the body of Christ as opposed to the biscuit, and besides it looks more like a Pringle anyway. Always look on the bright side of life, eh? Oops I'm not the Anti-Christ just a very naughty girl;) Katie Re-Registered
  • Score: -4

9:55am Fri 8 Aug 14

Musing Militant says...

Just a few personal observations / experiences.

First, everyone needs a belief or faith. For some that is reflected through a relgion, for others bits from different religions and for some others their own personal morality and / or code to live life by.

Secondlly I feel a bit sorry for Paxman's and his / her experience at the Cardiff synagoguewhere the welcome was not pleasant quote "I was met by someone upstairs who demanded to know what I was doing there. When I tried to tell him, he told me I shouldn't be there unless invited and escorted me out. It shocked me. I'd never been to a shul like that. And I will never go again."
Now I follow no religion whatsoever but can say I am curious sometimes and a few weeks ago I came across the mosque in Butetown Cardiff on a Friday. Me being me I ventured in. I am white (most of the worshippers were not that is only why I state my colour), was wearing western clothes and obviously was unexpected. However I must say that everyone I encountered shook my hand and welcomed me in. At no point did anyone insist I take part but one or two did offer to help me in the service if I so wished to take part. I sat the service out but stayed to watch. It was it appears totally different to Paxmans encounter with people of his / her own faith. Maybe the Cardiff Jewish community (or some at least) could learn a thing or two about welcoming people from outside their own localised "community, from their Muslim counterparts!.

Thirdly. Not all Jewish people support the state of Israel despite the propaganda given out by the Israeli government..
Just a few personal observations / experiences. First, everyone needs a belief or faith. For some that is reflected through a relgion, for others bits from different religions and for some others their own personal morality and / or code to live life by. Secondlly I feel a bit sorry for Paxman's and his / her experience at the Cardiff synagoguewhere the welcome was not pleasant quote "I was met by someone upstairs who demanded to know what I was doing there. When I tried to tell him, he told me I shouldn't be there unless invited and escorted me out. It shocked me. I'd never been to a shul like that. And I will never go again." Now I follow no religion whatsoever but can say I am curious sometimes and a few weeks ago I came across the mosque in Butetown Cardiff on a Friday. Me being me I ventured in. I am white (most of the worshippers were not that is only why I state my colour), was wearing western clothes and obviously was unexpected. However I must say that everyone I encountered shook my hand and welcomed me in. At no point did anyone insist I take part but one or two did offer to help me in the service if I so wished to take part. I sat the service out but stayed to watch. It was it appears totally different to Paxmans encounter with people of his / her own faith. Maybe the Cardiff Jewish community (or some at least) could learn a thing or two about welcoming people from outside their own localised "community, from their Muslim counterparts!. Thirdly. Not all Jewish people support the state of Israel despite the propaganda given out by the Israeli government.. Musing Militant
  • Score: -3

11:12am Fri 8 Aug 14

Raymond Luxury-Yacht says...

Musing militant says "First, everyone needs a belief or faith." What? even existential nihilists?.
Musing militant says "First, everyone needs a belief or faith." What? even existential nihilists?. Raymond Luxury-Yacht
  • Score: -3

1:07pm Fri 8 Aug 14

Katie Re-Registered says...

Musing Militant wrote:
Just a few personal observations / experiences.

First, everyone needs a belief or faith. For some that is reflected through a relgion, for others bits from different religions and for some others their own personal morality and / or code to live life by.

Secondlly I feel a bit sorry for Paxman's and his / her experience at the Cardiff synagoguewhere the welcome was not pleasant quote "I was met by someone upstairs who demanded to know what I was doing there. When I tried to tell him, he told me I shouldn't be there unless invited and escorted me out. It shocked me. I'd never been to a shul like that. And I will never go again."
Now I follow no religion whatsoever but can say I am curious sometimes and a few weeks ago I came across the mosque in Butetown Cardiff on a Friday. Me being me I ventured in. I am white (most of the worshippers were not that is only why I state my colour), was wearing western clothes and obviously was unexpected. However I must say that everyone I encountered shook my hand and welcomed me in. At no point did anyone insist I take part but one or two did offer to help me in the service if I so wished to take part. I sat the service out but stayed to watch. It was it appears totally different to Paxmans encounter with people of his / her own faith. Maybe the Cardiff Jewish community (or some at least) could learn a thing or two about welcoming people from outside their own localised "community, from their Muslim counterparts!.

Thirdly. Not all Jewish people support the state of Israel despite the propaganda given out by the Israeli government..
Paxman's reception at the Cardiff synagogue sounded pretty unfriendly to say the least and I get the impression the person responsible for security there could have handled this situation a whole lot better. It's always depressing when a place of worship becomes more like a fortress protected by guards with a "who goes there?" mentality.

However, you will find tight security at many synagogues nowadays as there is a very real danger of attacks by anti-semitic fanatics of all sorts - chiefly neo-Nazi groups or Islamic fundamentalists. Indeed, there have been several murders at places of Jewish cultural or religious importance over the last few years - the most recent ones being at the Jewish Museum in Brussels.

Although statistically however, there are more instances of attacks on mosques by Islamophobes, the threat level of the relatively much smaller group of people who set out to attack synagogues is usually much higher as they really do seem to set out specifically to kill worshippers as opposed to vandalise the premises or leave disgusting graffiti. The anti-Semitic groups who plan attacks on synagogues are mostly armed and are usually either far-right or Islamist fundamentalist terrorists.

It's something of a paradox that although there was more widespread anti-semitism around 100 years' ago, one would have very rarely (if at all) found a synagogue that was protected by armed police. When I visited Berlin a few years' back there is a constant 24-hour police guard outside the synagogue there - yet ironically back in the period immediately preceding the Nazi regime there weren't. Yet anti-semitism was almost the norm back then even in relatively tolerant countries like Wales - for instance, few realise now that there was actually a pogrom in Tredegar in 1911.

It's just that now the pockets of anti-semitic groups around have a much more intense, driven desire to hurt Jewish people and their friends.
[quote][p][bold]Musing Militant[/bold] wrote: Just a few personal observations / experiences. First, everyone needs a belief or faith. For some that is reflected through a relgion, for others bits from different religions and for some others their own personal morality and / or code to live life by. Secondlly I feel a bit sorry for Paxman's and his / her experience at the Cardiff synagoguewhere the welcome was not pleasant quote "I was met by someone upstairs who demanded to know what I was doing there. When I tried to tell him, he told me I shouldn't be there unless invited and escorted me out. It shocked me. I'd never been to a shul like that. And I will never go again." Now I follow no religion whatsoever but can say I am curious sometimes and a few weeks ago I came across the mosque in Butetown Cardiff on a Friday. Me being me I ventured in. I am white (most of the worshippers were not that is only why I state my colour), was wearing western clothes and obviously was unexpected. However I must say that everyone I encountered shook my hand and welcomed me in. At no point did anyone insist I take part but one or two did offer to help me in the service if I so wished to take part. I sat the service out but stayed to watch. It was it appears totally different to Paxmans encounter with people of his / her own faith. Maybe the Cardiff Jewish community (or some at least) could learn a thing or two about welcoming people from outside their own localised "community, from their Muslim counterparts!. Thirdly. Not all Jewish people support the state of Israel despite the propaganda given out by the Israeli government..[/p][/quote]Paxman's reception at the Cardiff synagogue sounded pretty unfriendly to say the least and I get the impression the person responsible for security there could have handled this situation a whole lot better. It's always depressing when a place of worship becomes more like a fortress protected by guards with a "who goes there?" mentality. However, you will find tight security at many synagogues nowadays as there is a very real danger of attacks by anti-semitic fanatics of all sorts - chiefly neo-Nazi groups or Islamic fundamentalists. Indeed, there have been several murders at places of Jewish cultural or religious importance over the last few years - the most recent ones being at the Jewish Museum in Brussels. Although statistically however, there are more instances of attacks on mosques by Islamophobes, the threat level of the relatively much smaller group of people who set out to attack synagogues is usually much higher as they really do seem to set out specifically to kill worshippers as opposed to vandalise the premises or leave disgusting graffiti. The anti-Semitic groups who plan attacks on synagogues are mostly armed and are usually either far-right or Islamist fundamentalist terrorists. It's something of a paradox that although there was more widespread anti-semitism around 100 years' ago, one would have very rarely (if at all) found a synagogue that was protected by armed police. When I visited Berlin a few years' back there is a constant 24-hour police guard outside the synagogue there - yet ironically back in the period immediately preceding the Nazi regime there weren't. Yet anti-semitism was almost the norm back then even in relatively tolerant countries like Wales - for instance, few realise now that there was actually a pogrom in Tredegar in 1911. It's just that now the pockets of anti-semitic groups around have a much more intense, driven desire to hurt Jewish people and their friends. Katie Re-Registered
  • Score: 4

1:55pm Fri 8 Aug 14

DavidMclean says...

smokintheweed wrote:
DavidMclean wrote:
People need to start being realistic about religion in 21st Century Britain. Whatever the religion - be it Christianity, CofE, Catholicism, Islam, Judaiism etc -ALL of them dilute and give way to the underlying commercialism that is the REAL religion our society worships. So churches, mosques and sinagogues have fewer people, and the old guard give way to youngsters who show less commitment to the religion. Most of us are Christians on paper but never go to church apart from weddings and funerals and have happily let the Christian message of Easter and Christmas be replaced by chocolate, commercialism and hedonism. Frankly, I think that's a good thing. The sooner religion evaporates, the better.
So you are saying that people who follow an ethical code that has been taught to them from early life to try to be a good person is a bad thing? Religion rarely works out but are you telling me you have all the answers?
You seem to think people can only live to an ethical code if it is presented to them by a religion.

From what I see, many, if not most, of the world's religions have set ethical codes which are dubious to say the least, which stipulate that men are superior to women, that followers of other religions should be persecuted or wiped out, and plenty of other dodgy nonsense.

Ethical codes are necessary, but few of them tally with each other, so what's ethical for one religion will be unethical for another.

I live by a very strong ethical code - one which is vastly superior to the bigoted codes available through organised religions. I feel sorry for you if you feel you would be unable to establish a code without a religion defining it for you.
[quote][p][bold]smokintheweed[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DavidMclean[/bold] wrote: People need to start being realistic about religion in 21st Century Britain. Whatever the religion - be it Christianity, CofE, Catholicism, Islam, Judaiism etc -ALL of them dilute and give way to the underlying commercialism that is the REAL religion our society worships. So churches, mosques and sinagogues have fewer people, and the old guard give way to youngsters who show less commitment to the religion. Most of us are Christians on paper but never go to church apart from weddings and funerals and have happily let the Christian message of Easter and Christmas be replaced by chocolate, commercialism and hedonism. Frankly, I think that's a good thing. The sooner religion evaporates, the better.[/p][/quote]So you are saying that people who follow an ethical code that has been taught to them from early life to try to be a good person is a bad thing? Religion rarely works out but are you telling me you have all the answers?[/p][/quote]You seem to think people can only live to an ethical code if it is presented to them by a religion. From what I see, many, if not most, of the world's religions have set ethical codes which are dubious to say the least, which stipulate that men are superior to women, that followers of other religions should be persecuted or wiped out, and plenty of other dodgy nonsense. Ethical codes are necessary, but few of them tally with each other, so what's ethical for one religion will be unethical for another. I live by a very strong ethical code - one which is vastly superior to the bigoted codes available through organised religions. I feel sorry for you if you feel you would be unable to establish a code without a religion defining it for you. DavidMclean
  • Score: 1

4:26pm Fri 8 Aug 14

Mervyn James says...

"The reasons why they have gone? There are dozens of socio-economic reasons why Jewish communities have dwindled in places all around the world. "

yep they have all moved into Palestine.....
"The reasons why they have gone? There are dozens of socio-economic reasons why Jewish communities have dwindled in places all around the world. " yep they have all moved into Palestine..... Mervyn James
  • Score: -7

8:23pm Fri 8 Aug 14

walesdave says...

Wife and I just spent 30 seconds adding up the number of Jewish friends we have in Newport.
Total of 9 people over two families so guess the Argus has got the numbers a little bit wrong!
As far as Cardiff synagogue goes - which one did you have your bad experience at?
Wife and I just spent 30 seconds adding up the number of Jewish friends we have in Newport. Total of 9 people over two families so guess the Argus has got the numbers a little bit wrong! As far as Cardiff synagogue goes - which one did you have your bad experience at? walesdave
  • Score: 4

9:32pm Fri 8 Aug 14

Paxman's Army says...

walesdave wrote:
Wife and I just spent 30 seconds adding up the number of Jewish friends we have in Newport.
Total of 9 people over two families so guess the Argus has got the numbers a little bit wrong!
As far as Cardiff synagogue goes - which one did you have your bad experience at?
I did Dave. So I head in there in search of some candles for Hanukkah because. .let's face it, they ain't at Wilko's. I get inside the fortress and find out there's no one downstair. I walk upstairs and there's some guy who's doing some stuff in an office and I shock him awake with my question.

"I hear there's a shop in here. Do you have any hanukkah candles?"

"What are you doing here?" he demands. "You can't be in here." And then he escorts me out. Drove me meshuggenah.
[quote][p][bold]walesdave[/bold] wrote: Wife and I just spent 30 seconds adding up the number of Jewish friends we have in Newport. Total of 9 people over two families so guess the Argus has got the numbers a little bit wrong! As far as Cardiff synagogue goes - which one did you have your bad experience at?[/p][/quote]I did Dave. So I head in there in search of some candles for Hanukkah because. .let's face it, they ain't at Wilko's. I get inside the fortress and find out there's no one downstair. I walk upstairs and there's some guy who's doing some stuff in an office and I shock him awake with my question. "I hear there's a shop in here. Do you have any hanukkah candles?" "What are you doing here?" he demands. "You can't be in here." And then he escorts me out. Drove me meshuggenah. Paxman's Army
  • Score: 1

10:44pm Fri 8 Aug 14

walesdave says...

Yep - I know the place well....but haven't stepped foot inside in a few years. Rabbi was a great guy but the 'committee'....lets just leave it a that ;-)
There's a new Rabbi now so don't know what he's like.
FYI: Sainbury on Colchester Av. does candles, so does the Tesco Extra off the A48.
FYI x2: there is another Shul in Cardiff if you don't mind the Reform flavour...it's just down from Cardiff prison in what looks like a converted church.
BTW: I'm not one of the tribe....just had the luck to marry one :-)
Yep - I know the place well....but haven't stepped foot inside in a few years. Rabbi was a great guy but the 'committee'....lets just leave it a that ;-) There's a new Rabbi now so don't know what he's like. FYI: Sainbury on Colchester Av. does candles, so does the Tesco Extra off the A48. FYI x2: there is another Shul in Cardiff if you don't mind the Reform flavour...it's just down from Cardiff prison in what looks like a converted church. BTW: I'm not one of the tribe....just had the luck to marry one :-) walesdave
  • Score: 7

5:51pm Sat 9 Aug 14

varteg1 says...

Katie Re-Registered wrote:
KarloMarko wrote:
Really surprised at this. I grew up in Newport in the 50s not far from what was called "Jews Wood", the 'Jewish" cemetery. Is this because of a conscious move away from the Jewish faith and culture rather than ethnicity or origin?
With regard to certain of my Jewish relatives, the move away from Judaism seems to have been motivated mainly because the Jewish sabbath clashed with football, betting on the horses and various other 'sporting' activities which frustratingly also took place on a Saturday:)
Please do not see this as anti Jewish, as I told someone else, of I was not a rabid atheist, and had religious leanings, it would be towards Judaism... .....anyway, maybe this is one of those 'integration' things.

Perhaps if the Jewish community as a whole had opted to adapt to the national 'sabbath' of Britain, Sunday,...instead of retaining their choice of Saturday, much of the sidetracking events such as football and racing would not have 'attracted' their adherents away.

Of course in these modern days since sporting etc events are now more or less 7 days a week, that would put the kibosh on a sabbath no matter on what day it occurred.

But for myself, up here in Varteg, the door is always open to any Jewish folk who care to step over the threshold.

I promise and guarantee no bacon sarnies will be available.
[quote][p][bold]Katie Re-Registered[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]KarloMarko[/bold] wrote: Really surprised at this. I grew up in Newport in the 50s not far from what was called "Jews Wood", the 'Jewish" cemetery. Is this because of a conscious move away from the Jewish faith and culture rather than ethnicity or origin?[/p][/quote]With regard to certain of my Jewish relatives, the move away from Judaism seems to have been motivated mainly because the Jewish sabbath clashed with football, betting on the horses and various other 'sporting' activities which frustratingly also took place on a Saturday:)[/p][/quote]Please do not see this as anti Jewish, as I told someone else, of I was not a rabid atheist, and had religious leanings, it would be towards Judaism... .....anyway, maybe this is one of those 'integration' things. Perhaps if the Jewish community as a whole had opted to adapt to the national 'sabbath' of Britain, Sunday,...instead of retaining their choice of Saturday, much of the sidetracking events such as football and racing would not have 'attracted' their adherents away. Of course in these modern days since sporting etc events are now more or less 7 days a week, that would put the kibosh on a sabbath no matter on what day it occurred. But for myself, up here in Varteg, the door is always open to any Jewish folk who care to step over the threshold. I promise and guarantee no bacon sarnies will be available. varteg1
  • Score: 4

8:14pm Sat 9 Aug 14

Paxman's Army says...

varteg1 wrote:
Katie Re-Registered wrote:
KarloMarko wrote:
Really surprised at this. I grew up in Newport in the 50s not far from what was called "Jews Wood", the 'Jewish" cemetery. Is this because of a conscious move away from the Jewish faith and culture rather than ethnicity or origin?
With regard to certain of my Jewish relatives, the move away from Judaism seems to have been motivated mainly because the Jewish sabbath clashed with football, betting on the horses and various other 'sporting' activities which frustratingly also took place on a Saturday:)
Please do not see this as anti Jewish, as I told someone else, of I was not a rabid atheist, and had religious leanings, it would be towards Judaism... .....anyway, maybe this is one of those 'integration' things.

Perhaps if the Jewish community as a whole had opted to adapt to the national 'sabbath' of Britain, Sunday,...instead of retaining their choice of Saturday, much of the sidetracking events such as football and racing would not have 'attracted' their adherents away.

Of course in these modern days since sporting etc events are now more or less 7 days a week, that would put the kibosh on a sabbath no matter on what day it occurred.

But for myself, up here in Varteg, the door is always open to any Jewish folk who care to step over the threshold.

I promise and guarantee no bacon sarnies will be available.
Thanks for the invite Varteg. I don't consider it anti-semitic at all. I mean folks have been trying to change the quirks of the faith for many many MANY years. Will cheeseburgers be on the menu?
[quote][p][bold]varteg1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Katie Re-Registered[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]KarloMarko[/bold] wrote: Really surprised at this. I grew up in Newport in the 50s not far from what was called "Jews Wood", the 'Jewish" cemetery. Is this because of a conscious move away from the Jewish faith and culture rather than ethnicity or origin?[/p][/quote]With regard to certain of my Jewish relatives, the move away from Judaism seems to have been motivated mainly because the Jewish sabbath clashed with football, betting on the horses and various other 'sporting' activities which frustratingly also took place on a Saturday:)[/p][/quote]Please do not see this as anti Jewish, as I told someone else, of I was not a rabid atheist, and had religious leanings, it would be towards Judaism... .....anyway, maybe this is one of those 'integration' things. Perhaps if the Jewish community as a whole had opted to adapt to the national 'sabbath' of Britain, Sunday,...instead of retaining their choice of Saturday, much of the sidetracking events such as football and racing would not have 'attracted' their adherents away. Of course in these modern days since sporting etc events are now more or less 7 days a week, that would put the kibosh on a sabbath no matter on what day it occurred. But for myself, up here in Varteg, the door is always open to any Jewish folk who care to step over the threshold. I promise and guarantee no bacon sarnies will be available.[/p][/quote]Thanks for the invite Varteg. I don't consider it anti-semitic at all. I mean folks have been trying to change the quirks of the faith for many many MANY years. Will cheeseburgers be on the menu? Paxman's Army
  • Score: 2

1:10am Sun 10 Aug 14

ella02 says...

The information in this report is totally wrong,there are a number of Jewish families in Newport,my family of 6 included....the problem is that the members of the prayer house here in Newport are of a certain age,a great age of course!...but we want to be with other families with children ,and for that reason many of us are affiliated with either the reform or Orthadox communities in Cardiff.The Jewish community has deminished over the last 30 years,many moving ,but we are still a large number of families,we just dont worship here
The information in this report is totally wrong,there are a number of Jewish families in Newport,my family of 6 included....the problem is that the members of the prayer house here in Newport are of a certain age,a great age of course!...but we want to be with other families with children ,and for that reason many of us are affiliated with either the reform or Orthadox communities in Cardiff.The Jewish community has deminished over the last 30 years,many moving ,but we are still a large number of families,we just dont worship here ella02
  • Score: 4

1:20am Sun 10 Aug 14

ella02 says...

Can i also say that for Mr Black to say that there are only 6 Jews in Newport is quite a surpise to me as he well knows that there are far more than that,he certainly knows our family,unless he only counts those that are members of the Newport prayer house
Can i also say that for Mr Black to say that there are only 6 Jews in Newport is quite a surpise to me as he well knows that there are far more than that,he certainly knows our family,unless he only counts those that are members of the Newport prayer house ella02
  • Score: 3

2:37am Sun 10 Aug 14

dragonlady1 says...

Katie Re-Registered wrote:
dragonlady1 wrote:
Katie Re-Registered wrote:
Katie Re-Registered wrote:
Katie Re-Registered wrote:
KarloMarko wrote:
Really surprised at this. I grew up in Newport in the 50s not far from what was called "Jews Wood", the 'Jewish" cemetery. Is this because of a conscious move away from the Jewish faith and culture rather than ethnicity or origin?
With regard to certain of my Jewish relatives, the move away from Judaism seems to have been motivated mainly because the Jewish sabbath clashed with football, betting on the horses and various other 'sporting' activities which frustratingly also took place on a Saturday:)
Plus a fondness for bacon butties and other deliciously 'un-kosher' delicacies:)
No wonder us Jews are lapsing: when you're a catholic and go to confess your sins the priest blesses you and gives you a glass of wine and a biscuit whereas when you're Jewish and you admit to giving in to temptation you get loads of 'down arrows' from the local rabbi:)!
No wonder us Jews are lapsing: when you're a catholic and go to confess your sins the priest blesses you and gives you a glass of wine and a biscuit whereas when you're Jewish and you admit to giving in to temptation you get loads of 'down arrows' from the local rabbi:)! Katie Re-Registered if you are going to quote on another religion then get it right , as a Roman Catholic when you confess your sins the Priest does not give you a glass of wine and a biscuit (as it isn't a biscuit anyway), he gives you a penance.
I think it's called having a sense of humour, Dragonlady - which you obviously seem to lack.
I do have a sense of humour thank you, but as I said if you are going to quote about another religion other than your own then get it right and by the way it doesn't look like a pringle either, it is more like a wafer.
[quote][p][bold]Katie Re-Registered[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]dragonlady1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Katie Re-Registered[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Katie Re-Registered[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Katie Re-Registered[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]KarloMarko[/bold] wrote: Really surprised at this. I grew up in Newport in the 50s not far from what was called "Jews Wood", the 'Jewish" cemetery. Is this because of a conscious move away from the Jewish faith and culture rather than ethnicity or origin?[/p][/quote]With regard to certain of my Jewish relatives, the move away from Judaism seems to have been motivated mainly because the Jewish sabbath clashed with football, betting on the horses and various other 'sporting' activities which frustratingly also took place on a Saturday:)[/p][/quote]Plus a fondness for bacon butties and other deliciously 'un-kosher' delicacies:)[/p][/quote]No wonder us Jews are lapsing: when you're a catholic and go to confess your sins the priest blesses you and gives you a glass of wine and a biscuit whereas when you're Jewish and you admit to giving in to temptation you get loads of 'down arrows' from the local rabbi:)![/p][/quote]No wonder us Jews are lapsing: when you're a catholic and go to confess your sins the priest blesses you and gives you a glass of wine and a biscuit whereas when you're Jewish and you admit to giving in to temptation you get loads of 'down arrows' from the local rabbi:)! Katie Re-Registered if you are going to quote on another religion then get it right , as a Roman Catholic when you confess your sins the Priest does not give you a glass of wine and a biscuit (as it isn't a biscuit anyway), he gives you a penance.[/p][/quote]I think it's called having a sense of humour, Dragonlady - which you obviously seem to lack.[/p][/quote]I do have a sense of humour thank you, but as I said if you are going to quote about another religion other than your own then get it right and by the way it doesn't look like a pringle either, it is more like a wafer. dragonlady1
  • Score: 0

4:15am Sun 10 Aug 14

Dr Martin says...

Mervyn James wrote:
"The reasons why they have gone? There are dozens of socio-economic reasons why Jewish communities have dwindled in places all around the world. "

yep they have all moved into Palestine.....
Good one ;-)
[quote][p][bold]Mervyn James[/bold] wrote: "The reasons why they have gone? There are dozens of socio-economic reasons why Jewish communities have dwindled in places all around the world. " yep they have all moved into Palestine.....[/p][/quote]Good one ;-) Dr Martin
  • Score: -5

8:20am Mon 11 Aug 14

Katie Re-Registered says...

Dr Martin wrote:
Mervyn James wrote:
"The reasons why they have gone? There are dozens of socio-economic reasons why Jewish communities have dwindled in places all around the world. "

yep they have all moved into Palestine.....
Good one ;-)
Nope. It's an epic fail:(

It may be something that easily satisfied people like yourself and Dragonlady find uproariously funny but last time I checked Palestine isn't in Wales and neither is Israel. FYI This is a discussion about WELSH Jews. This article and thread had absolutely nothing to do with the Israel-Palestine crisi until certain trolls came on here and elected to make it so for their own ulterior motives.

Quite shocked to find that so many people don't consider their fellow Welsh citizens to be as equally and authentically Welsh as they are. Although it is quite intriguing to see the sorts of people who would have been traitors to Wales had the Nazis invaded in 1940. Btw. Dr Martin, on that note, the surname wouldn't happen to be Borman, would it?;)

Now, do get lost anti-semitic trolls: this is a local thread for local people - nothing for you here!:)
[quote][p][bold]Dr Martin[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Mervyn James[/bold] wrote: "The reasons why they have gone? There are dozens of socio-economic reasons why Jewish communities have dwindled in places all around the world. " yep they have all moved into Palestine.....[/p][/quote]Good one ;-)[/p][/quote]Nope. It's an epic fail:( It may be something that easily satisfied people like yourself and Dragonlady find uproariously funny but last time I checked Palestine isn't in Wales and neither is Israel. FYI This is a discussion about WELSH Jews. This article and thread had absolutely nothing to do with the Israel-Palestine crisi until certain trolls came on here and elected to make it so for their own ulterior motives. Quite shocked to find that so many people don't consider their fellow Welsh citizens to be as equally and authentically Welsh as they are. Although it is quite intriguing to see the sorts of people who would have been traitors to Wales had the Nazis invaded in 1940. Btw. Dr Martin, on that note, the surname wouldn't happen to be Borman, would it?;) Now, do get lost anti-semitic trolls: this is a local thread for local people - nothing for you here!:) Katie Re-Registered
  • Score: 5

2:45pm Tue 12 Aug 14

grandmammamia says...

Katie Re-Registered wrote:
But, yeah, it is actually the body of Christ as opposed to the biscuit, and besides it looks more like a Pringle anyway. Always look on the bright side of life, eh? Oops I'm not the Anti-Christ just a very naughty girl;)
Ok each to his/her/their own but you pulled up Dragonlady when she corrected you by saying ''sense of humour''. That may be so, but she was pointing out your misapprehension that Confession includes the Eucharist and your subsequent post confirms this.

The sacrament of Penance (which includes an act of Confession ) commonly known as making confession involves confessing your sins to a priest and the penintent making an act of contrition and following the penance given by the priest.

The biscuit/pringle which you so 'humourously' refer to is part of the Eucharist, commonly known as communion . So at least get your analogies right.

This description would undoubtedly be offensive to most Communicants Protestant or Catholic . We do have a sense of humour, I think Life of Brian is one of the best British comedies , but your post quoted is 'off colour'. I suspect if I said something as offensive about your sexuality you would castigate me and not be mollified by me claiming it to be a joke.
[quote][p][bold]Katie Re-Registered[/bold] wrote: But, yeah, it is actually the body of Christ as opposed to the biscuit, and besides it looks more like a Pringle anyway. Always look on the bright side of life, eh? Oops I'm not the Anti-Christ just a very naughty girl;)[/p][/quote]Ok each to his/her/their own but you pulled up Dragonlady when she corrected you by saying ''sense of humour''. That may be so, but she was pointing out your misapprehension that Confession includes the Eucharist and your subsequent post confirms this. The sacrament of Penance (which includes an act of Confession ) commonly known as making confession involves confessing your sins to a priest and the penintent making an act of contrition and following the penance given by the priest. The biscuit/pringle which you so 'humourously' refer to is part of the Eucharist, commonly known as communion . So at least get your analogies right. This description would undoubtedly be offensive to most Communicants Protestant or Catholic . We do have a sense of humour, I think Life of Brian is one of the best British comedies , but your post quoted is 'off colour'. I suspect if I said something as offensive about your sexuality you would castigate me and not be mollified by me claiming it to be a joke. grandmammamia
  • Score: 1

4:09pm Tue 12 Aug 14

Roger Elliot says...

One day all religions will dwindle away. You may call me a dreamer but I'm not the only one.
One day all religions will dwindle away. You may call me a dreamer but I'm not the only one. Roger Elliot
  • Score: -2

5:39pm Tue 12 Aug 14

jimmytheone2 says...

Good Job No Kids wrote:
Religion, what a waste of time and effort.
Good kids, no job - what a waste of space
[quote][p][bold]Good Job No Kids[/bold] wrote: Religion, what a waste of time and effort.[/p][/quote]Good kids, no job - what a waste of space jimmytheone2
  • Score: 1

5:41pm Tue 12 Aug 14

jimmytheone2 says...

smokintheweed wrote:
Good Job No Kids wrote:
Religion, what a waste of time and effort.
Then why are you wasting your time and effort making pointless comments?
Because that's what he does - all the time. Bit like Welshmen and his partner Dianna Rear.
[quote][p][bold]smokintheweed[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Good Job No Kids[/bold] wrote: Religion, what a waste of time and effort.[/p][/quote]Then why are you wasting your time and effort making pointless comments?[/p][/quote]Because that's what he does - all the time. Bit like Welshmen and his partner Dianna Rear. jimmytheone2
  • Score: 1

5:44pm Tue 12 Aug 14

jimmytheone2 says...

Musing Militant wrote:
Just a few personal observations / experiences.

First, everyone needs a belief or faith. For some that is reflected through a relgion, for others bits from different religions and for some others their own personal morality and / or code to live life by.

Secondlly I feel a bit sorry for Paxman's and his / her experience at the Cardiff synagoguewhere the welcome was not pleasant quote "I was met by someone upstairs who demanded to know what I was doing there. When I tried to tell him, he told me I shouldn't be there unless invited and escorted me out. It shocked me. I'd never been to a shul like that. And I will never go again."
Now I follow no religion whatsoever but can say I am curious sometimes and a few weeks ago I came across the mosque in Butetown Cardiff on a Friday. Me being me I ventured in. I am white (most of the worshippers were not that is only why I state my colour), was wearing western clothes and obviously was unexpected. However I must say that everyone I encountered shook my hand and welcomed me in. At no point did anyone insist I take part but one or two did offer to help me in the service if I so wished to take part. I sat the service out but stayed to watch. It was it appears totally different to Paxmans encounter with people of his / her own faith. Maybe the Cardiff Jewish community (or some at least) could learn a thing or two about welcoming people from outside their own localised "community, from their Muslim counterparts!.

Thirdly. Not all Jewish people support the state of Israel despite the propaganda given out by the Israeli government..
Don't tell this story to Welshmen, he'll not believe it. He'll think there was some ulterior motive. He wears blinkers you know.
[quote][p][bold]Musing Militant[/bold] wrote: Just a few personal observations / experiences. First, everyone needs a belief or faith. For some that is reflected through a relgion, for others bits from different religions and for some others their own personal morality and / or code to live life by. Secondlly I feel a bit sorry for Paxman's and his / her experience at the Cardiff synagoguewhere the welcome was not pleasant quote "I was met by someone upstairs who demanded to know what I was doing there. When I tried to tell him, he told me I shouldn't be there unless invited and escorted me out. It shocked me. I'd never been to a shul like that. And I will never go again." Now I follow no religion whatsoever but can say I am curious sometimes and a few weeks ago I came across the mosque in Butetown Cardiff on a Friday. Me being me I ventured in. I am white (most of the worshippers were not that is only why I state my colour), was wearing western clothes and obviously was unexpected. However I must say that everyone I encountered shook my hand and welcomed me in. At no point did anyone insist I take part but one or two did offer to help me in the service if I so wished to take part. I sat the service out but stayed to watch. It was it appears totally different to Paxmans encounter with people of his / her own faith. Maybe the Cardiff Jewish community (or some at least) could learn a thing or two about welcoming people from outside their own localised "community, from their Muslim counterparts!. Thirdly. Not all Jewish people support the state of Israel despite the propaganda given out by the Israeli government..[/p][/quote]Don't tell this story to Welshmen, he'll not believe it. He'll think there was some ulterior motive. He wears blinkers you know. jimmytheone2
  • Score: 1

1:33pm Wed 13 Aug 14

Ultimate Worrier says...

The comments on this thread alone are evidence enough for me that religion is a load of tripe.

All sat at your computers, warring about your various imaginary friends.

I have decided to set up a new religion worshipping dinosaurs. They are the founders of our planet, and therefore should be worshipped. I wonder how long I will be allowed to remain on the streets preaching before I am sectioned.
The comments on this thread alone are evidence enough for me that religion is a load of tripe. All sat at your computers, warring about your various imaginary friends. I have decided to set up a new religion worshipping dinosaurs. They are the founders of our planet, and therefore should be worshipped. I wonder how long I will be allowed to remain on the streets preaching before I am sectioned. Ultimate Worrier
  • Score: -1

9:19pm Wed 13 Aug 14

Spinflight says...

"Newport MP Paul Flynn made exactly the same mistake as you by suggesting that British Jews should not be allowed to fill certain government positions because he felt they are not of 'British ancestry'."

And had to make a grovelling apology to the Israeli ambassador in the house of commons due to his views as I recall.

I doubt many jews lived in George Galloway's constituency either, or more precisely fewer lived there once he had been re-elected numerous times.

At the end of the day, to an outside observer such as a potential investor, these things do count against a town or city.
"Newport MP Paul Flynn made exactly the same mistake as you by suggesting that British Jews should not be allowed to fill certain government positions because he felt they are not of 'British ancestry'." And had to make a grovelling apology to the Israeli ambassador in the house of commons due to his views as I recall. I doubt many jews lived in George Galloway's constituency either, or more precisely fewer lived there once he had been re-elected numerous times. At the end of the day, to an outside observer such as a potential investor, these things do count against a town or city. Spinflight
  • Score: 3

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