COMMENT: Cwmcarn High school concerns justified

12:07pm Monday 15th October 2012 in News NEW EDITOR: Kevin Ward By Kevin Ward - Editor

COMMENT: Cwmcarn High school concerns justified COMMENT: Cwmcarn High school concerns justified

THE closure of Cwmcarn High school on Friday has resulted in a torrent of criticism from parents.

While we understand the decision was taken for safety reasons, following fears over the presence of asbestos in the building, the short-notice nature of the announcement has left many parents reeling.

Since we reported the story we have been inundated with angry comments from parents.

And we can understand at least some of their concerns.

For many, the accusation is that the decision, which was announced late afternoon, was not communicated properly to parents.

For others, the criticism is aimed at the handling of the whole issue by both Caerphilly County Borough Council and the school itself.

The closure announcement means parents of 937 pupils will undoubtedly face a headache today.

For some there will be very real childcare issues, for others the concern will be how the closure will affect their child’s education.

And they have every right to be worried. Schools are constantly ramming home the message that attendance is vital to success.

The message now coming out is that this is a temporary closure. What parents need to know is how long is temporary and whether or not alternative accommodation will be found to ensure children mis

Comments(28)

bobmech1 says...
12:32pm Mon 15 Oct 12

Shouldn't someone be asking Caerphilly why now as it was known at least 10 years ago if not more that there was asbestos in the school ax the removed huge amounts when they remodelled the dining area
Is this caerphillys chance to shut the school which they have been trying to do for ages

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RicardoP says...
12:36pm Mon 15 Oct 12

As a parent I can fully understand the very late notice on Friday, given that the school only knew very late in the day.

What is completely unsatisfactory is the further update that has been provided by the Local Authority today.

"Caerphilly County Borough Council is working with the Public Health service to analyse the findings of the structural report received by the authority on Friday afternoon. It is anticipated that the Public Health professionals will provide their views on the findings within the next 24 hours.

The council is currently working with the school’s senior leadership team and governors to explore alternative arrangements for pupils and staff, but this is unlikely to be resolved this week. Every effort is being made to accommodate pupils in years 11, 12 and 13 as a priority.

We appreciate that the situation is inconvenient, but the health and wellbeing of pupils and staff is our main priority...."

The first paragraph states that they have not yet assessed the situation, but then the second alludes to medium term arrangements for pupils. This smacks of the LA hiding something!! Also, has there are been a release of asbestos dust, that we don't know about, and should we worry about our childrens' long term health?

And as for the word "inconvenient" in the final sentence. Completely trivialises the educational impact on our children, particularly if doing their GCSEs!!

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lisann says...
12:41pm Mon 15 Oct 12

who cares about childrens education ..so long as they've got their nice council offices in Ystrad the community this end of the borough dont mind suffering, oh sorry I forgot they put up lovely Risca banners in PONTYMISTER to cheer us all up! Job done!!

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JWG1967 says...
1:16pm Mon 15 Oct 12

The deadline to pay for my year 11 childs GCSE resit is today. Admittedly he didn't give me the correct info until late last week. (Teenagers !!!!) but where does that leave him? Will there be dispensation as these events have prevented me from paying?
Will he now be prevented from doing his resit through no fault of his or mine?
They have extra lessons for year 11s on top of normal lessons - how are they going to catch up on their usual lessons let alone the extra tuition sessions.
Do they have deadlines for course work or assessments that will now be missed.
Yes we certainly don't want our children or staff at the school put at risk but we need answers to these issues and we need them soon.
Come on Caerphilly Council you've stepped in over the Head so step up and sort it out.

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cwmbran man says...
1:32pm Mon 15 Oct 12

Welsh schools are full of asbestos, places like cwmbran are particularly prone to it, with thousands of homes here full of it too, it is however totally safe is not disturbed, you are probably coming to contact with it far more in everyday life than you are in school, where its predominantly in cladding and fireproof boards, removal culd have been done perfectly safely in parts of the school at a time and there is no need for a full closure.

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cwmbran man says...
1:34pm Mon 15 Oct 12

Also if its already been there many years, a planned removal during the 6 weeks school holidays next year would be the easiest option.

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lisann says...
1:53pm Mon 15 Oct 12

They've wanted to close a Caerphilly school for ages, now's they have their chance! how it affects the pupils is the last thing on their minds! Cleaners are sacked so this confirms it in my eyes!

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Becca1970 says...
2:01pm Mon 15 Oct 12

bobmech1 wrote:
Shouldn't someone be asking Caerphilly why now as it was known at least 10 years ago if not more that there was asbestos in the school ax the removed huge amounts when they remodelled the dining area
Is this caerphillys chance to shut the school which they have been trying to do for ages
I totally agree. The in-take at Risca Comp is at its lowest for years. People choose Cwmcarn for many reasons and I hope this can be resolved without the LEA twisting my arm and sending my children to a school I have no confidence in.

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alexman1 says...
2:10pm Mon 15 Oct 12

Well I just watched the BBC news and the school have sacked all of the cleaners! It's not likely to be closed for a temporary amount of time without them is it! Another thing is Mrs Plepinski has stated she didn't know about the asbestos since Friday, my son has said they have closed one of the departments for 2-3 weeks because of it. Something else going on I beleive.

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darky69 says...
2:49pm Mon 15 Oct 12

I am furious in the way that this matter has been dealt with, my daughter is currently in Year 13 and is about to resit A levels! Which I paid £40 for on Thursday!

I have rang both the school and CCBC for information, with regards to the school there is no one there to even take your call NOT EVEN THE HEADTEACHER!!! I am disgusted in the fact that they did not even have the hindsight to redirect phonecalls somewhere else in order for parents to speak to the SMT of the school for answers.

I am also appalled at the fact that a meeting was held this morning and not Friday evening or over the weekend; to discuss the future of the pupils of the school. The phonecall I had with CCBC was no more helpful as they have no idea what they are doing and have no solution to the problem!

As for only realising there was a problem late Friday afternoon, I find this very hard to believe as my daughter had told me that there were areas they were not allowed in and classrooms were no go!

My daughter also has to complete her UCAS form by the end of October and this was to be done in school, so where does that leave her?

There seems to be no solution to this matter, but more to the point no one seems to care about what is going to happen to the pupils and the affect it may have on their future!!

Here's an idea for you..why don't they send pupils to other schools with space with staff from Cwmcarn so they can be taught. Priority should be Key Stage 4 & 5 first and then KS3...don't really think it's that hard to find a temporary solution!!

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marie morris says...
4:09pm Mon 15 Oct 12

my daughter is in her final yr in a levels , part of the humanities department has been closed for weeks , my daughter has lost work which has been destroyed over the last 2 weeks , we told her to go to school last week and demand to see the asbestos register she was told she had to go through the council to see it as they dont have one on the premises ,Dinner time friday she told the school that her father was going to the hse , coinidence within hours the school was closed ?

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macbumble says...
4:18pm Mon 15 Oct 12

Someone can correct me if they want,I am not sure of the situation but if the asbestos has not been handled or cut it should be no problem it's only when you start working on it it becomes dangerous, my son and hundreds of other children have been through that school with no problems so what's the worry.

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everdeens says...
4:57pm Mon 15 Oct 12

I'm a student at Cwmcarn (Year 12) and when the headmistress said she'd only just found out about the asbestos she was definitely lying. People have known about it for years, my grandmother said that her friend's child was told not to bang the walls because of the asbestos and that was years ago. They've had the R.E & History department boarded off for weeks and all our lessons have been disrupted because of it. They sacked all the cleaners because they needed someone to blame and I think it's just pathetic. Their communication was awful; most of us found out about it through Facebook and the Argus, BBC & ITV all posted news reports on it hours before the school bothered to update their website.

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marie morris says...
5:19pm Mon 15 Oct 12

macbumble wrote:
Someone can correct me if they want,I am not sure of the situation but if the asbestos has not been handled or cut it should be no problem it's only when you start working on it it becomes dangerous, my son and hundreds of other children have been through that school with no problems so what's the worry.
ceiling tiles have been falling from the ceilings for years ,work was not carried out over the last 3 weeks safely ,my daughter was told her belonging were destroyed thursday because of the asbestos , it a huge coverup

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cwmbran man says...
6:26pm Mon 15 Oct 12

Asbestos will not eat coursework, it can be removed with a cleaner, ask the contractors to return it.

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marie morris says...
6:56pm Mon 15 Oct 12

cwmbran man wrote:
Asbestos will not eat coursework, it can be removed with a cleaner, ask the contractors to return it.
my daughters course work was destroyed as it was in the room the asbestos was distrubed in , she has been told to give a value ,

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jesswady says...
7:52pm Mon 15 Oct 12

cwmbran man wrote:
Also if its already been there many years, a planned removal during the 6 weeks school holidays next year would be the easiest option.
The immediate closure of the school obviously suggests that the asbestos has been disturbed !

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TanyaW says...
7:54pm Mon 15 Oct 12

I have 3 children in Cwmcarn High, as I have previously stated. My nephew left Cwmcarn High 2 years ago and when I was talking to him about it he said " when I was there , there were semi circle stickers in every classroom with asbestos printed on and they had been painted over!" Hmmm !

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TanyaW says...
7:55pm Mon 15 Oct 12

jesswady wrote:
cwmbran man wrote:
Also if its already been there many years, a planned removal during the 6 weeks school holidays next year would be the easiest option.
The immediate closure of the school obviously suggests that the asbestos has been disturbed !
Total agreement Jess

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gingertom says...
9:07pm Mon 15 Oct 12

Cwmcarn is not the only caerphilly school that has asbestos problems. Caerphilly should be well aware of other schools aswell.
Priorities need to be sorted out we don't need artwork in villages education and safe buildings should be more important.

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JWG1967 says...
7:52am Tue 16 Oct 12

Remember Cwmcarn is the lowest funded school in the Authority and the third lowest in Wales.
Caerphilly has committed millions to a new welsh comprehensive. Perhaps they could save a few £ on Weish education and put it into their poor relations in English medium.

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rlewis says...
8:16pm Wed 17 Oct 12

macbumble wrote:
Someone can correct me if they want,I am not sure of the situation but if the asbestos has not been handled or cut it should be no problem it's only when you start working on it it becomes dangerous, my son and hundreds of other children have been through that school with no problems so what's the worry.
People seem to be unaware that after asbestos particles have been inhaled by an individual, it takes 20 - 30 years for those particles to develop into a fatal illness. It does not happen instantly, or even within in a few years. It would not affect the children that are in the school now until they are in their 40's.

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Careful says...
10:38pm Sun 21 Oct 12

Please let's stick to the facts, and avoid the temptation to speculate generally about a specific incident for which little has been publicised since the announcement on the 12th. Most concerned people are all too aware of the general health risks that coming into contact with certain asbestos fibres may cause in the long term, as this has been widely publicised in the British media. However, as a concerned parent I have now read the report that CCBC has issued by mail yesterday to every parent of pupils at Cwmcarn High School. The facts (quoted below is a small but relevant extract, from an informative four page report to parents) as written include:

"The majority of the asbestos levels measured within the school were in the range of 0.003 to 0.008 fibres/ml.

This would suggest an excess lifetime cancer risk in the order of

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Careful says...
10:40pm Sun 21 Oct 12

Please let's stick to the facts, and avoid the temptation to speculate generally about a specific incident for which little has been publicised since the announcement on the 12th. Most concerned people are all too aware of the general health risks that coming into contact with certain asbestos fibres may cause in the long term, as this has been widely publicised in the British media. However, as a concerned parent I have now read the report that CCBC has issued by mail yesterday to every parent of pupils at Cwmcarn High School. The facts (quoted below is a small but relevant extract, from an informative four page report to parents) as written include:

"The majority of the asbestos levels measured within the school were in the range of 0.003 to 0.008 fibres/ml.

This would suggest an excess lifetime cancer risk in the order of

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Careful says...
10:42pm Sun 21 Oct 12

gremlins at play... I continue:

This would suggest an excess lifetime cancer risk in the order of

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Careful says...
10:45pm Sun 21 Oct 12

try again as not all my post is being "allowed"?

This would suggest an excess lifetime cancer risk in the order of less than 0.01 to 0.15 per thousand individuals if they were exposed to these levels over a five year period.

Taking a more conservative, worst case scenario, the excess lifetime cancer risk would be 0.2 to 1 case per thousand individuals over a 5 year period.

This assessment, based on the available data, assumes that exposure takes place 24 hours a day, 7 days a week over a 5 year period. Pupils and staff are on the school site for a far shorter period than this.

Taking into account all the available information, the health risk from potential asbestos exposure to pupils and staff at the school is considered to be LOW, ALBEIT SLIGHTLY ELEVATED."

The survey behind the findings of the report was commissioned, as the tougher CAWR regulations effective April 2012 specify, that a thorough, invasive and sometimes destructive analysis must be carried out prior to relevant refurbishment works are carried out. Cwmcarn High School may not be the the last school to get caught up in this tightening of legislation - hence I guess Leighton Andrews' call to all LA's for an urgent status report on asbestos in all schools in Wales. These historical and frankly out of date (albeit regarded as "current" by LA's) reports will by definition have not been performed to the much higher 2012 regs that Cwmcarn High has been subject to. Moreover, true and well founded comparisons and conclusions should not be drawn until each school's survey has been conducted on the same basis using the same criteria. Cwmcarn High may just be the "tip of the iceberg", and shouldn't be labelled a "bad" school for being the first to be subject to the highest standards of scrutiny! Please never forget that IMHO its not bricks and mortar that maketh a truly successful school, it is the unique combination of teaching staff, pupils, governors and parents that do, and it is this point that must continue to matter to us as caring parents, and we must do everything we can in our power to protect and promote this basic right!

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Careful says...
10:56pm Sun 21 Oct 12

Please note for some reason I had to slightly edit (but not factually) the above quotation for it to display properly. If you are reading this and are not a parent of a Cwmcarn High pupil, you will not have received the full Q&A report, and therefore will have to approach CCBC to enquire whether you are entitled/able to view a copy.

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Cwmderi says...
12:19pm Mon 22 Oct 12

lisann wrote:
They've wanted to close a Caerphilly school for ages, now's they have their chance! how it affects the pupils is the last thing on their minds! Cleaners are sacked so this confirms it in my eyes!
Like others, I too was shocked to learn via the BBC that the cleaners at the school had been summarily sacked. However, any school that chooses to opt out of cleaning or catering agreements and contracts with their local council, do so at their own risk and this is clearly a decision that has been taken by the governing body of Cwmcarn High.
My understanding is that it would have been the governing body that cancelled the contract, thereby sacking the cleaners and not Caerphilly council.

What is unacceptable is the total invisibility and lack of guidance or information from the Caerphilly Cabinet Member for Education in this whole matter. Living virtually on the doorstep of Cwmcarn school, it would have been expected that she would be the lead politician to sort out the problems facing the school as her first priority.

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