Mentally ill being 'held like criminals'

THE number of people in Gwent detained by police from public places because they were thought to be mentally ill increased in 2013, it has been revealed.

Information taken from a Freedom of Information request shows by the start of December, Gwent Police had detained 194 people who they felt were in need of assessment or treatment for a mental illness under section 136 of the Mental Health Act.

It is an increase from 173 in 2012. The number of people detained in Gwent under section 136 has increased year on year since 2010.

In 2010 146 people were detained, rising to 166 people in 2011.

Under section 136, police can move a person to a place of safety if they think he or she is at risk, in need of care and in a public place.

People can be detained under the conditions of the act for 72 hours in which time police can arrange a mental health assessment for them.

Ruth Coombs, Mind Cymru's Manager for Influence and Change, said: "When someone is experiencing a mental health crisis they need care and support, not to be treated like a criminal.

Often people are detained by police because they have attempted to take their own life. A police cell is a completely inappropriate environment and would be a terrifying experience for anyone, particularly someone who is already distressed and confused.

"We know police officers have a difficult role and do not always have the skills required to provide the care and support people with mental health problems need in these situations."

A Gwent Police spokesman said: "Police stations are not the most appropriate places for detaining people suffering from mental health issues, especially as many have not committed a crime."

"All decisions taken to detain anyone are made with the aim of minimising the risk of harm to the individual and any other members of the public."

In June, a report by Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Constabulary found an excessive number of people were being taken in by police custody in the UK under Section 136.

Comments (35)

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5:56pm Sat 28 Dec 13

thats the one says...

yes police custody is not a place of safety, my son was taken into custody under 136 (no crime was committed) gwent police made the dissicion that was a place of safety, and they made the desicion to hold him in a cell for 12 hours, he died in the custody unit, his inquest concluded there was gross failings in the custody unit. and by the custody staff.
yes police custody is not a place of safety, my son was taken into custody under 136 (no crime was committed) gwent police made the dissicion that was a place of safety, and they made the desicion to hold him in a cell for 12 hours, he died in the custody unit, his inquest concluded there was gross failings in the custody unit. and by the custody staff. thats the one

8:43pm Sat 28 Dec 13

Abertillery29 says...

There is not a place in Gwent that is a place of safety other than a police station - for initial assessment. Mind etc should be trying to get such a facility instead of continually criticising the police. The police have a duty to protect the individual and the public. Damned if you - damned if you do not.
There is not a place in Gwent that is a place of safety other than a police station - for initial assessment. Mind etc should be trying to get such a facility instead of continually criticising the police. The police have a duty to protect the individual and the public. Damned if you - damned if you do not. Abertillery29

9:28pm Sat 28 Dec 13

Katie Re-Registered says...

Once a person is officially declared 'mentally ill' by the state it can expose the concept of human rights to a whole series of potential abuses. Those invested with the authority to make such a diagnosis wield a tremendous amount of power. Let's not forget that in the Soviet Union, for example, those who were political opponents (imagined or real) were often declared 'mentally ill' as a way of putting them into custody and shutting them up. Once an individual is declared mentally incapable (e.g. if they have Alzheimer's and other types of dementias) they also become extremely vulnerable to financial exploitation. If they do not have a next of kin, the state takes their estate and any money and possessions they have. The suspension of the freedom of an individual always raises serious moral questions.
Once a person is officially declared 'mentally ill' by the state it can expose the concept of human rights to a whole series of potential abuses. Those invested with the authority to make such a diagnosis wield a tremendous amount of power. Let's not forget that in the Soviet Union, for example, those who were political opponents (imagined or real) were often declared 'mentally ill' as a way of putting them into custody and shutting them up. Once an individual is declared mentally incapable (e.g. if they have Alzheimer's and other types of dementias) they also become extremely vulnerable to financial exploitation. If they do not have a next of kin, the state takes their estate and any money and possessions they have. The suspension of the freedom of an individual always raises serious moral questions. Katie Re-Registered

10:12pm Sat 28 Dec 13

Practicalmickey says...

Mentally I'll being held like criminals.

Well done argus, wrong title again! how about 'mentally being failed by health authority!'

A police cell is not the place for some one detained under the mental health act. Where then? Come on health authority this is your remit not the police.
The Police remove the person from the public place where they are a threat to them self to ensure they're safety, they need to be supports for and cared for by the health authority who can treat these people who are ill.
Mentally I'll being held like criminals. Well done argus, wrong title again! how about 'mentally being failed by health authority!' A police cell is not the place for some one detained under the mental health act. Where then? Come on health authority this is your remit not the police. The Police remove the person from the public place where they are a threat to them self to ensure they're safety, they need to be supports for and cared for by the health authority who can treat these people who are ill. Practicalmickey

10:17pm Sat 28 Dec 13

thats the one says...

Abertillery29 wrote:
There is not a place in Gwent that is a place of safety other than a police station - for initial assessment. Mind etc should be trying to get such a facility instead of continually criticising the police. The police have a duty to protect the individual and the public. Damned if you - damned if you do not.
What a load of rubbish, a police station is not a place of safety, this was confirmed by Gwent coroner, it should be used as a last resort, people with mental health problems need help and support, not locked in a police cell, yes the police are supposed to be there to serve and protect but they don't , they do what they want and get away with it,
[quote][p][bold]Abertillery29[/bold] wrote: There is not a place in Gwent that is a place of safety other than a police station - for initial assessment. Mind etc should be trying to get such a facility instead of continually criticising the police. The police have a duty to protect the individual and the public. Damned if you - damned if you do not.[/p][/quote]What a load of rubbish, a police station is not a place of safety, this was confirmed by Gwent coroner, it should be used as a last resort, people with mental health problems need help and support, not locked in a police cell, yes the police are supposed to be there to serve and protect but they don't , they do what they want and get away with it, thats the one

12:38am Sun 29 Dec 13

TK355 says...

Why doesn't the SWA sponsor a room within their offices with lots of bean bags and lots of josticks for theses unfortunate people to be "held" in until medically assessed? This may actually take a day or two depending on circumstances but clearly the SWA feels strongly about this so why not try and see if you can help out?
Why doesn't the SWA sponsor a room within their offices with lots of bean bags and lots of josticks for theses unfortunate people to be "held" in until medically assessed? This may actually take a day or two depending on circumstances but clearly the SWA feels strongly about this so why not try and see if you can help out? TK355

8:34am Sun 29 Dec 13

Dai Rear says...

Katie Re-Registered wrote:
Once a person is officially declared 'mentally ill' by the state it can expose the concept of human rights to a whole series of potential abuses. Those invested with the authority to make such a diagnosis wield a tremendous amount of power. Let's not forget that in the Soviet Union, for example, those who were political opponents (imagined or real) were often declared 'mentally ill' as a way of putting them into custody and shutting them up. Once an individual is declared mentally incapable (e.g. if they have Alzheimer's and other types of dementias) they also become extremely vulnerable to financial exploitation. If they do not have a next of kin, the state takes their estate and any money and possessions they have. The suspension of the freedom of an individual always raises serious moral questions.
Where does that one come from? What about the Court of Protection? What about the power of that Court to write a Will for a person? I'm not saying that the Cof P is perfect but I think the elderly without near relations should be spared scare stuff like this KRR.
[quote][p][bold]Katie Re-Registered[/bold] wrote: Once a person is officially declared 'mentally ill' by the state it can expose the concept of human rights to a whole series of potential abuses. Those invested with the authority to make such a diagnosis wield a tremendous amount of power. Let's not forget that in the Soviet Union, for example, those who were political opponents (imagined or real) were often declared 'mentally ill' as a way of putting them into custody and shutting them up. Once an individual is declared mentally incapable (e.g. if they have Alzheimer's and other types of dementias) they also become extremely vulnerable to financial exploitation. If they do not have a next of kin, the state takes their estate and any money and possessions they have. The suspension of the freedom of an individual always raises serious moral questions.[/p][/quote]Where does that one come from? What about the Court of Protection? What about the power of that Court to write a Will for a person? I'm not saying that the Cof P is perfect but I think the elderly without near relations should be spared scare stuff like this KRR. Dai Rear

8:47am Sun 29 Dec 13

wainfelin says...

Having first hand experience of custody suites for many years I disagree with most of the above comments,If you have somebody that's is having a breakdown waving a sword,stick etc at you your family or any one just remember to call social services and wash your hands of the situation and then see what will happen.
The Argus and some posters need to get real,These people need to be taken to a place of safety quickly and unfortunately Gwent Police are the only organisations with the facilities to deal with mental health (Sect 136 ),believe me the staff in the custody suites don't want them because if anything happens to them in custody they are responsible and can be arrested sacked etc,never mind that the detainee may have taken all sorts of medication drugs and alcohol and the like.
If you don't like whats happening contact your MP and raise the issue with him or her and while your at it also raise the issue about juveniles in custody .
I believe that Social Services should provide these services.
Having first hand experience of custody suites for many years I disagree with most of the above comments,If you have somebody that's is having a breakdown waving a sword,stick etc at you your family or any one just remember to call social services and wash your hands of the situation and then see what will happen. The Argus and some posters need to get real,These people need to be taken to a place of safety quickly and unfortunately Gwent Police are the only organisations with the facilities to deal with mental health (Sect 136 ),believe me the staff in the custody suites don't want them because if anything happens to them in custody they are responsible and can be arrested sacked etc,never mind that the detainee may have taken all sorts of medication drugs and alcohol and the like. If you don't like whats happening contact your MP and raise the issue with him or her and while your at it also raise the issue about juveniles in custody . I believe that Social Services should provide these services. wainfelin

10:28am Sun 29 Dec 13

Practicalmickey says...

Katie Re-Registered wrote:
Once a person is officially declared 'mentally ill' by the state it can expose the concept of human rights to a whole series of potential abuses. Those invested with the authority to make such a diagnosis wield a tremendous amount of power. Let's not forget that in the Soviet Union, for example, those who were political opponents (imagined or real) were often declared 'mentally ill' as a way of putting them into custody and shutting them up. Once an individual is declared mentally incapable (e.g. if they have Alzheimer's and other types of dementias) they also become extremely vulnerable to financial exploitation. If they do not have a next of kin, the state takes their estate and any money and possessions they have. The suspension of the freedom of an individual always raises serious moral questions.
???????
I think you misunderstand, S136 is for those people about to jump of a bridge. A next if kin is not suitable, if the person hurts the next if kin the police will get the blame, the argus will love that.
Alzheimer's and dementia suffers have support mechanisms in place already and only require the police to engage them, 'the suspension of freedom'? Oh ok, let's just let these people jump or hang themselves then. Again the argus would love to right that article.
Once the person has been rescued, it's a cry for help, let's give them that help, let's take them to a correct place if safety, st cadocs for example and let the health authority care for them as they should be doing and not the police.
[quote][p][bold]Katie Re-Registered[/bold] wrote: Once a person is officially declared 'mentally ill' by the state it can expose the concept of human rights to a whole series of potential abuses. Those invested with the authority to make such a diagnosis wield a tremendous amount of power. Let's not forget that in the Soviet Union, for example, those who were political opponents (imagined or real) were often declared 'mentally ill' as a way of putting them into custody and shutting them up. Once an individual is declared mentally incapable (e.g. if they have Alzheimer's and other types of dementias) they also become extremely vulnerable to financial exploitation. If they do not have a next of kin, the state takes their estate and any money and possessions they have. The suspension of the freedom of an individual always raises serious moral questions.[/p][/quote]??????? I think you misunderstand, S136 is for those people about to jump of a bridge. A next if kin is not suitable, if the person hurts the next if kin the police will get the blame, the argus will love that. Alzheimer's and dementia suffers have support mechanisms in place already and only require the police to engage them, 'the suspension of freedom'? Oh ok, let's just let these people jump or hang themselves then. Again the argus would love to right that article. Once the person has been rescued, it's a cry for help, let's give them that help, let's take them to a correct place if safety, st cadocs for example and let the health authority care for them as they should be doing and not the police. Practicalmickey

11:50am Sun 29 Dec 13

TK355 says...

Why not do some proper investigation then and find out the percentage of people detained who were actually sectioned afterwards? And then why not find out how that compares to other Welsh forces? And then why not
find out how that compares to forces in England? And then find out how that compares per capita to the rest of the forces? As usual, half a story from the Argus, wading in to put the boot into the police when you have so little knowledge of the subject you are, and I use this word loosely, reporting on.
Why not do some proper investigation then and find out the percentage of people detained who were actually sectioned afterwards? And then why not find out how that compares to other Welsh forces? And then why not find out how that compares to forces in England? And then find out how that compares per capita to the rest of the forces? As usual, half a story from the Argus, wading in to put the boot into the police when you have so little knowledge of the subject you are, and I use this word loosely, reporting on. TK355

2:10pm Sun 29 Dec 13

Ollie254 says...

Abertillery29 wrote:
There is not a place in Gwent that is a place of safety other than a police station - for initial assessment. Mind etc should be trying to get such a facility instead of continually criticising the police. The police have a duty to protect the individual and the public. Damned if you - damned if you do not.
Absolutely correct. There is no where to take people who are suffering from mental illness other than police cells and this situation is not the fault of the Police. As an ex Police Officer working in Abergavenny at a time where the town had two Specialist hospitals and one general hospital we were still obliged to use police cells because the law and the health authorities would allow nothing else. Don't blame the police.
[quote][p][bold]Abertillery29[/bold] wrote: There is not a place in Gwent that is a place of safety other than a police station - for initial assessment. Mind etc should be trying to get such a facility instead of continually criticising the police. The police have a duty to protect the individual and the public. Damned if you - damned if you do not.[/p][/quote]Absolutely correct. There is no where to take people who are suffering from mental illness other than police cells and this situation is not the fault of the Police. As an ex Police Officer working in Abergavenny at a time where the town had two Specialist hospitals and one general hospital we were still obliged to use police cells because the law and the health authorities would allow nothing else. Don't blame the police. Ollie254

2:12pm Sun 29 Dec 13

Ollie254 says...

thats the one wrote:
Abertillery29 wrote:
There is not a place in Gwent that is a place of safety other than a police station - for initial assessment. Mind etc should be trying to get such a facility instead of continually criticising the police. The police have a duty to protect the individual and the public. Damned if you - damned if you do not.
What a load of rubbish, a police station is not a place of safety, this was confirmed by Gwent coroner, it should be used as a last resort, people with mental health problems need help and support, not locked in a police cell, yes the police are supposed to be there to serve and protect but they don't , they do what they want and get away with it,
There is no where else available .........build the facility , get the health authority to accept them and the facility will be used. The health authorities refuse to accept these people.
[quote][p][bold]thats the one[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Abertillery29[/bold] wrote: There is not a place in Gwent that is a place of safety other than a police station - for initial assessment. Mind etc should be trying to get such a facility instead of continually criticising the police. The police have a duty to protect the individual and the public. Damned if you - damned if you do not.[/p][/quote]What a load of rubbish, a police station is not a place of safety, this was confirmed by Gwent coroner, it should be used as a last resort, people with mental health problems need help and support, not locked in a police cell, yes the police are supposed to be there to serve and protect but they don't , they do what they want and get away with it,[/p][/quote]There is no where else available .........build the facility , get the health authority to accept them and the facility will be used. The health authorities refuse to accept these people. Ollie254

6:47pm Sun 29 Dec 13

val d'is says...

The health authority has built a place of safety for s136's in st cadocs . Non violent detainees and those not under the influence of intoxicants are brought there for assessment.
It would be interesting to see the numbers of detainees that are taken to hospital as opposed to a police station and how the numbers have changed since the opening of the suite in st cadocs
The health authority has built a place of safety for s136's in st cadocs . Non violent detainees and those not under the influence of intoxicants are brought there for assessment. It would be interesting to see the numbers of detainees that are taken to hospital as opposed to a police station and how the numbers have changed since the opening of the suite in st cadocs val d'is

8:14pm Sun 29 Dec 13

Mervyn James says...

Katie Re-Registered wrote:
Once a person is officially declared 'mentally ill' by the state it can expose the concept of human rights to a whole series of potential abuses. Those invested with the authority to make such a diagnosis wield a tremendous amount of power. Let's not forget that in the Soviet Union, for example, those who were political opponents (imagined or real) were often declared 'mentally ill' as a way of putting them into custody and shutting them up. Once an individual is declared mentally incapable (e.g. if they have Alzheimer's and other types of dementias) they also become extremely vulnerable to financial exploitation. If they do not have a next of kin, the state takes their estate and any money and possessions they have. The suspension of the freedom of an individual always raises serious moral questions.
Yes poor MH means you they longer have any rights at all, and anyone can rip them off, abuse them, let them die of neglect etc. Privatization seems a licence to abuse in the care area, and I do know if a deaf patient suffers poor mental health they are 'deported to England for treatment since wales found out that was cheaper, of course, it makes effect treatment then not possible because patients are away from family and peer support so drugged to buggery. We treat animals better.
[quote][p][bold]Katie Re-Registered[/bold] wrote: Once a person is officially declared 'mentally ill' by the state it can expose the concept of human rights to a whole series of potential abuses. Those invested with the authority to make such a diagnosis wield a tremendous amount of power. Let's not forget that in the Soviet Union, for example, those who were political opponents (imagined or real) were often declared 'mentally ill' as a way of putting them into custody and shutting them up. Once an individual is declared mentally incapable (e.g. if they have Alzheimer's and other types of dementias) they also become extremely vulnerable to financial exploitation. If they do not have a next of kin, the state takes their estate and any money and possessions they have. The suspension of the freedom of an individual always raises serious moral questions.[/p][/quote]Yes poor MH means you they longer have any rights at all, and anyone can rip them off, abuse them, let them die of neglect etc. Privatization seems a licence to abuse in the care area, and I do know if a deaf patient suffers poor mental health they are 'deported to England for treatment since wales found out that was cheaper, of course, it makes effect treatment then not possible because patients are away from family and peer support so drugged to buggery. We treat animals better. Mervyn James

10:02am Mon 30 Dec 13

davidcp says...

thats the one wrote:
Abertillery29 wrote: There is not a place in Gwent that is a place of safety other than a police station - for initial assessment. Mind etc should be trying to get such a facility instead of continually criticising the police. The police have a duty to protect the individual and the public. Damned if you - damned if you do not.
What a load of rubbish, a police station is not a place of safety, this was confirmed by Gwent coroner, it should be used as a last resort, people with mental health problems need help and support, not locked in a police cell, yes the police are supposed to be there to serve and protect but they don't , they do what they want and get away with it,
You missed the point - there ISN'T ANYWHERE ELSE.
[quote][p][bold]thats the one[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Abertillery29[/bold] wrote: There is not a place in Gwent that is a place of safety other than a police station - for initial assessment. Mind etc should be trying to get such a facility instead of continually criticising the police. The police have a duty to protect the individual and the public. Damned if you - damned if you do not.[/p][/quote]What a load of rubbish, a police station is not a place of safety, this was confirmed by Gwent coroner, it should be used as a last resort, people with mental health problems need help and support, not locked in a police cell, yes the police are supposed to be there to serve and protect but they don't , they do what they want and get away with it,[/p][/quote]You missed the point - there ISN'T ANYWHERE ELSE. davidcp

11:27am Mon 30 Dec 13

Ollie254 says...

val d'is wrote:
The health authority has built a place of safety for s136's in st cadocs . Non violent detainees and those not under the influence of intoxicants are brought there for assessment.
It would be interesting to see the numbers of detainees that are taken to hospital as opposed to a police station and how the numbers have changed since the opening of the suite in st cadocs
But many of those suffering mental health issues requiring police attendance are violent and intoxicated resulting in detention until assessment in police cells.
[quote][p][bold]val d'is[/bold] wrote: The health authority has built a place of safety for s136's in st cadocs . Non violent detainees and those not under the influence of intoxicants are brought there for assessment. It would be interesting to see the numbers of detainees that are taken to hospital as opposed to a police station and how the numbers have changed since the opening of the suite in st cadocs[/p][/quote]But many of those suffering mental health issues requiring police attendance are violent and intoxicated resulting in detention until assessment in police cells. Ollie254

12:06pm Mon 30 Dec 13

Abertillery29 says...

Regarding comment by 'thats the one' - the coroners duties are not to make the law or decide what is and is not 'a place of safety', He or she may report on matters and can send a report/letter to the relevant authorities pointing out his/her concerns..
Regarding comment by 'thats the one' - the coroners duties are not to make the law or decide what is and is not 'a place of safety', He or she may report on matters and can send a report/letter to the relevant authorities pointing out his/her concerns.. Abertillery29

2:50pm Mon 30 Dec 13

Dr Martin says...

thats the one wrote:
yes police custody is not a place of safety, my son was taken into custody under 136 (no crime was committed) gwent police made the dissicion that was a place of safety, and they made the desicion to hold him in a cell for 12 hours, he died in the custody unit, his inquest concluded there was gross failings in the custody unit. and by the custody staff.
A place of safety can be a hospital or a police station. The police can move you between places of safety.
[quote][p][bold]thats the one[/bold] wrote: yes police custody is not a place of safety, my son was taken into custody under 136 (no crime was committed) gwent police made the dissicion that was a place of safety, and they made the desicion to hold him in a cell for 12 hours, he died in the custody unit, his inquest concluded there was gross failings in the custody unit. and by the custody staff.[/p][/quote]A place of safety can be a hospital or a police station. The police can move you between places of safety. Dr Martin

2:56pm Mon 30 Dec 13

Dr Martin says...

Practicalmickey wrote:
Mentally I'll being held like criminals.

Well done argus, wrong title again! how about 'mentally being failed by health authority!'

A police cell is not the place for some one detained under the mental health act. Where then? Come on health authority this is your remit not the police.
The Police remove the person from the public place where they are a threat to them self to ensure they're safety, they need to be supports for and cared for by the health authority who can treat these people who are ill.
A place of safety can be a hospital or a police station. The police can move you between places of safety.
[quote][p][bold]Practicalmickey[/bold] wrote: Mentally I'll being held like criminals. Well done argus, wrong title again! how about 'mentally being failed by health authority!' A police cell is not the place for some one detained under the mental health act. Where then? Come on health authority this is your remit not the police. The Police remove the person from the public place where they are a threat to them self to ensure they're safety, they need to be supports for and cared for by the health authority who can treat these people who are ill.[/p][/quote]A place of safety can be a hospital or a police station. The police can move you between places of safety. Dr Martin

6:54pm Mon 30 Dec 13

Mervyn James says...

Dr Martin wrote:
thats the one wrote:
yes police custody is not a place of safety, my son was taken into custody under 136 (no crime was committed) gwent police made the dissicion that was a place of safety, and they made the desicion to hold him in a cell for 12 hours, he died in the custody unit, his inquest concluded there was gross failings in the custody unit. and by the custody staff.
A place of safety can be a hospital or a police station. The police can move you between places of safety.
General Hospitals do not treat or admit MH patients (At least not in Gwent). The policy at the AB Trust was explained as "We treat broken bones, not broken minds..." And they cannot or won't treat them. SS policy is I gather to 'farm' out MH patients to private areas, mostly with few staff with any training, and a shed full of tranquilizers to keep patients sedated. The way we treat what is 25% of the population with MH issues is a total blight on our humanity. 1 in 4 will suffer MH issues, it could be you, or me, or anyone you know. Face up to it and deal with it properly, depression which near ALL of us suffer with at some time or other, IS an MH issue.. There is little or not real attempt to address them. We are seeing teenagers off the dole expected to manage them... 'helpers' elevated to 'pseudo-nurse' or 'carer' status with none of the qualifications.
[quote][p][bold]Dr Martin[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thats the one[/bold] wrote: yes police custody is not a place of safety, my son was taken into custody under 136 (no crime was committed) gwent police made the dissicion that was a place of safety, and they made the desicion to hold him in a cell for 12 hours, he died in the custody unit, his inquest concluded there was gross failings in the custody unit. and by the custody staff.[/p][/quote]A place of safety can be a hospital or a police station. The police can move you between places of safety.[/p][/quote]General Hospitals do not treat or admit MH patients (At least not in Gwent). The policy at the AB Trust was explained as "We treat broken bones, not broken minds..." And they cannot or won't treat them. SS policy is I gather to 'farm' out MH patients to private areas, mostly with few staff with any training, and a shed full of tranquilizers to keep patients sedated. The way we treat what is 25% of the population with MH issues is a total blight on our humanity. 1 in 4 will suffer MH issues, it could be you, or me, or anyone you know. Face up to it and deal with it properly, depression which near ALL of us suffer with at some time or other, IS an MH issue.. There is little or not real attempt to address them. We are seeing teenagers off the dole expected to manage them... 'helpers' elevated to 'pseudo-nurse' or 'carer' status with none of the qualifications. Mervyn James

8:01pm Mon 30 Dec 13

Dr Martin says...

Mervyn James wrote:
Dr Martin wrote:
thats the one wrote:
yes police custody is not a place of safety, my son was taken into custody under 136 (no crime was committed) gwent police made the dissicion that was a place of safety, and they made the desicion to hold him in a cell for 12 hours, he died in the custody unit, his inquest concluded there was gross failings in the custody unit. and by the custody staff.
A place of safety can be a hospital or a police station. The police can move you between places of safety.
General Hospitals do not treat or admit MH patients (At least not in Gwent). The policy at the AB Trust was explained as "We treat broken bones, not broken minds..." And they cannot or won't treat them. SS policy is I gather to 'farm' out MH patients to private areas, mostly with few staff with any training, and a shed full of tranquilizers to keep patients sedated. The way we treat what is 25% of the population with MH issues is a total blight on our humanity. 1 in 4 will suffer MH issues, it could be you, or me, or anyone you know. Face up to it and deal with it properly, depression which near ALL of us suffer with at some time or other, IS an MH issue.. There is little or not real attempt to address them. We are seeing teenagers off the dole expected to manage them... 'helpers' elevated to 'pseudo-nurse' or 'carer' status with none of the qualifications.
The one in 4 figure can be taken as a general term and could be true for the past say 60 years and yet in that time frame we have lost "over" 100,000 psychiatric beds.

I work in psychiatry so I do agree in what you have to say overall, however In what I have experienced about Section 136 patients (a fair few taken from the local suicide spot), it is usually not a mental health problem that is the reason that they are there
[quote][p][bold]Mervyn James[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dr Martin[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thats the one[/bold] wrote: yes police custody is not a place of safety, my son was taken into custody under 136 (no crime was committed) gwent police made the dissicion that was a place of safety, and they made the desicion to hold him in a cell for 12 hours, he died in the custody unit, his inquest concluded there was gross failings in the custody unit. and by the custody staff.[/p][/quote]A place of safety can be a hospital or a police station. The police can move you between places of safety.[/p][/quote]General Hospitals do not treat or admit MH patients (At least not in Gwent). The policy at the AB Trust was explained as "We treat broken bones, not broken minds..." And they cannot or won't treat them. SS policy is I gather to 'farm' out MH patients to private areas, mostly with few staff with any training, and a shed full of tranquilizers to keep patients sedated. The way we treat what is 25% of the population with MH issues is a total blight on our humanity. 1 in 4 will suffer MH issues, it could be you, or me, or anyone you know. Face up to it and deal with it properly, depression which near ALL of us suffer with at some time or other, IS an MH issue.. There is little or not real attempt to address them. We are seeing teenagers off the dole expected to manage them... 'helpers' elevated to 'pseudo-nurse' or 'carer' status with none of the qualifications.[/p][/quote]The one in 4 figure can be taken as a general term and could be true for the past say 60 years and yet in that time frame we have lost "over" 100,000 psychiatric beds. I work in psychiatry so I do agree in what you have to say overall, however In what I have experienced about Section 136 patients (a fair few taken from the local suicide spot), it is usually not a mental health problem that is the reason that they are there Dr Martin

11:17am Tue 31 Dec 13

Mervyn James says...

The stigma needs to be addressed. It is hard to believe in 2013/14 we are STILL at Victorian standards in helping those with MH issues. 60 years with no change, and even less beds and support ? it can only get a lot worse.... If we didn't waste resources on drunks, over-eaters, and drug addicts, genuine need would get real support that is at least. non-inflicted. Like most I'm tired of the excuses being used to help those who won't help themselves.
The stigma needs to be addressed. It is hard to believe in 2013/14 we are STILL at Victorian standards in helping those with MH issues. 60 years with no change, and even less beds and support ? it can only get a lot worse.... If we didn't waste resources on drunks, over-eaters, and drug addicts, genuine need would get real support that is at least. non-inflicted. Like most I'm tired of the excuses being used to help those who won't help themselves. Mervyn James

2:36pm Tue 31 Dec 13

Dr Martin says...

Mervyn a tremendous amount has changed in the past 10 years let alone the past 60 years, just imagine 150.000 were held in huge asylums for many years around the mid 1950’s,
Therapies, medications, service accessibility and facilities and improved dramatically as well.
Unfortunately too much of the budget is taken up paying the PFI costs of these new mental health facilities.
I would agree with you that there are too many people who’s mental illness is exacerbated by legal and illegal substances that why I get annoyed by the “Pro-pot” brigade who seemed very determined that the government legalises their righteous herb.
Mervyn a tremendous amount has changed in the past 10 years let alone the past 60 years, just imagine 150.000 were held in huge asylums for many years around the mid 1950’s, Therapies, medications, service accessibility and facilities and improved dramatically as well. Unfortunately too much of the budget is taken up paying the PFI costs of these new mental health facilities. I would agree with you that there are too many people who’s mental illness is exacerbated by legal and illegal substances that why I get annoyed by the “Pro-pot” brigade who seemed very determined that the government legalises their righteous herb. Dr Martin

4:40pm Tue 31 Dec 13

Blodwen Puw says...

I don't think Mervyn Hughes understands the predisposing factors relating to drug and alcohol abuse and overeating.
In my experience as a Nurse they are often symptoms of mental illness eg depression, anxiety and physical and sexual abuse.
One only has to scratch the surface to reveal a whole host of complex issues. Things aren't simple at all.
I don't think Mervyn Hughes understands the predisposing factors relating to drug and alcohol abuse and overeating. In my experience as a Nurse they are often symptoms of mental illness eg depression, anxiety and physical and sexual abuse. One only has to scratch the surface to reveal a whole host of complex issues. Things aren't simple at all. Blodwen Puw

9:31pm Tue 31 Dec 13

Practicalmickey says...

Dr Martin wrote:
Practicalmickey wrote:
Mentally I'll being held like criminals.

Well done argus, wrong title again! how about 'mentally being failed by health authority!'

A police cell is not the place for some one detained under the mental health act. Where then? Come on health authority this is your remit not the police.
The Police remove the person from the public place where they are a threat to them self to ensure they're safety, they need to be supports for and cared for by the health authority who can treat these people who are ill.
A place of safety can be a hospital or a police station. The police can move you between places of safety.
Yes the POLICE can. But the HEALTH service should. MH are not criminals and shouldn't be dealt with by the police, Dr Martin.
[quote][p][bold]Dr Martin[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Practicalmickey[/bold] wrote: Mentally I'll being held like criminals. Well done argus, wrong title again! how about 'mentally being failed by health authority!' A police cell is not the place for some one detained under the mental health act. Where then? Come on health authority this is your remit not the police. The Police remove the person from the public place where they are a threat to them self to ensure they're safety, they need to be supports for and cared for by the health authority who can treat these people who are ill.[/p][/quote]A place of safety can be a hospital or a police station. The police can move you between places of safety.[/p][/quote]Yes the POLICE can. But the HEALTH service should. MH are not criminals and shouldn't be dealt with by the police, Dr Martin. Practicalmickey

9:37pm Tue 31 Dec 13

Practicalmickey says...

Dr Martin wrote:
Mervyn James wrote:
Dr Martin wrote:
thats the one wrote:
yes police custody is not a place of safety, my son was taken into custody under 136 (no crime was committed) gwent police made the dissicion that was a place of safety, and they made the desicion to hold him in a cell for 12 hours, he died in the custody unit, his inquest concluded there was gross failings in the custody unit. and by the custody staff.
A place of safety can be a hospital or a police station. The police can move you between places of safety.
General Hospitals do not treat or admit MH patients (At least not in Gwent). The policy at the AB Trust was explained as "We treat broken bones, not broken minds..." And they cannot or won't treat them. SS policy is I gather to 'farm' out MH patients to private areas, mostly with few staff with any training, and a shed full of tranquilizers to keep patients sedated. The way we treat what is 25% of the population with MH issues is a total blight on our humanity. 1 in 4 will suffer MH issues, it could be you, or me, or anyone you know. Face up to it and deal with it properly, depression which near ALL of us suffer with at some time or other, IS an MH issue.. There is little or not real attempt to address them. We are seeing teenagers off the dole expected to manage them... 'helpers' elevated to 'pseudo-nurse' or 'carer' status with none of the qualifications.
The one in 4 figure can be taken as a general term and could be true for the past say 60 years and yet in that time frame we have lost "over" 100,000 psychiatric beds.

I work in psychiatry so I do agree in what you have to say overall, however In what I have experienced about Section 136 patients (a fair few taken from the local suicide spot), it is usually not a mental health problem that is the reason that they are there
I agree, quite often it's not MH, it can often be drink/drug induced momentarily lapse in control, hence the drunken cry for help. They rarely want to hurt themself, they just don't know what else to do.
[quote][p][bold]Dr Martin[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Mervyn James[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dr Martin[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thats the one[/bold] wrote: yes police custody is not a place of safety, my son was taken into custody under 136 (no crime was committed) gwent police made the dissicion that was a place of safety, and they made the desicion to hold him in a cell for 12 hours, he died in the custody unit, his inquest concluded there was gross failings in the custody unit. and by the custody staff.[/p][/quote]A place of safety can be a hospital or a police station. The police can move you between places of safety.[/p][/quote]General Hospitals do not treat or admit MH patients (At least not in Gwent). The policy at the AB Trust was explained as "We treat broken bones, not broken minds..." And they cannot or won't treat them. SS policy is I gather to 'farm' out MH patients to private areas, mostly with few staff with any training, and a shed full of tranquilizers to keep patients sedated. The way we treat what is 25% of the population with MH issues is a total blight on our humanity. 1 in 4 will suffer MH issues, it could be you, or me, or anyone you know. Face up to it and deal with it properly, depression which near ALL of us suffer with at some time or other, IS an MH issue.. There is little or not real attempt to address them. We are seeing teenagers off the dole expected to manage them... 'helpers' elevated to 'pseudo-nurse' or 'carer' status with none of the qualifications.[/p][/quote]The one in 4 figure can be taken as a general term and could be true for the past say 60 years and yet in that time frame we have lost "over" 100,000 psychiatric beds. I work in psychiatry so I do agree in what you have to say overall, however In what I have experienced about Section 136 patients (a fair few taken from the local suicide spot), it is usually not a mental health problem that is the reason that they are there[/p][/quote]I agree, quite often it's not MH, it can often be drink/drug induced momentarily lapse in control, hence the drunken cry for help. They rarely want to hurt themself, they just don't know what else to do. Practicalmickey

1:49pm Wed 1 Jan 14

Dr Martin says...

Practicalmickey wrote:
Dr Martin wrote:
Practicalmickey wrote:
Mentally I'll being held like criminals.

Well done argus, wrong title again! how about 'mentally being failed by health authority!'

A police cell is not the place for some one detained under the mental health act. Where then? Come on health authority this is your remit not the police.
The Police remove the person from the public place where they are a threat to them self to ensure they're safety, they need to be supports for and cared for by the health authority who can treat these people who are ill.
A place of safety can be a hospital or a police station. The police can move you between places of safety.
Yes the POLICE can. But the HEALTH service should. MH are not criminals and shouldn't be dealt with by the police, Dr Martin.
Unfortunately for enough 136 suites to be available and fully staffed 24/7 would cost a fortune, unlikely to be funded under the financial constraints we are all under at the moment if ever at all
[quote][p][bold]Practicalmickey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dr Martin[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Practicalmickey[/bold] wrote: Mentally I'll being held like criminals. Well done argus, wrong title again! how about 'mentally being failed by health authority!' A police cell is not the place for some one detained under the mental health act. Where then? Come on health authority this is your remit not the police. The Police remove the person from the public place where they are a threat to them self to ensure they're safety, they need to be supports for and cared for by the health authority who can treat these people who are ill.[/p][/quote]A place of safety can be a hospital or a police station. The police can move you between places of safety.[/p][/quote]Yes the POLICE can. But the HEALTH service should. MH are not criminals and shouldn't be dealt with by the police, Dr Martin.[/p][/quote]Unfortunately for enough 136 suites to be available and fully staffed 24/7 would cost a fortune, unlikely to be funded under the financial constraints we are all under at the moment if ever at all Dr Martin

1:53pm Wed 1 Jan 14

Dr Martin says...

Practicalmickey wrote:
Dr Martin wrote:
Mervyn James wrote:
Dr Martin wrote:
thats the one wrote:
yes police custody is not a place of safety, my son was taken into custody under 136 (no crime was committed) gwent police made the dissicion that was a place of safety, and they made the desicion to hold him in a cell for 12 hours, he died in the custody unit, his inquest concluded there was gross failings in the custody unit. and by the custody staff.
A place of safety can be a hospital or a police station. The police can move you between places of safety.
General Hospitals do not treat or admit MH patients (At least not in Gwent). The policy at the AB Trust was explained as "We treat broken bones, not broken minds..." And they cannot or won't treat them. SS policy is I gather to 'farm' out MH patients to private areas, mostly with few staff with any training, and a shed full of tranquilizers to keep patients sedated. The way we treat what is 25% of the population with MH issues is a total blight on our humanity. 1 in 4 will suffer MH issues, it could be you, or me, or anyone you know. Face up to it and deal with it properly, depression which near ALL of us suffer with at some time or other, IS an MH issue.. There is little or not real attempt to address them. We are seeing teenagers off the dole expected to manage them... 'helpers' elevated to 'pseudo-nurse' or 'carer' status with none of the qualifications.
The one in 4 figure can be taken as a general term and could be true for the past say 60 years and yet in that time frame we have lost "over" 100,000 psychiatric beds.

I work in psychiatry so I do agree in what you have to say overall, however In what I have experienced about Section 136 patients (a fair few taken from the local suicide spot), it is usually not a mental health problem that is the reason that they are there
I agree, quite often it's not MH, it can often be drink/drug induced momentarily lapse in control, hence the drunken cry for help. They rarely want to hurt themself, they just don't know what else to do.
Oh I think in a fair few cases they know what they are doing, usually they are homeless or about to be evicted (or similar social problem) and expect the mental health services to put them up for a night or two.
[quote][p][bold]Practicalmickey[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dr Martin[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Mervyn James[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dr Martin[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thats the one[/bold] wrote: yes police custody is not a place of safety, my son was taken into custody under 136 (no crime was committed) gwent police made the dissicion that was a place of safety, and they made the desicion to hold him in a cell for 12 hours, he died in the custody unit, his inquest concluded there was gross failings in the custody unit. and by the custody staff.[/p][/quote]A place of safety can be a hospital or a police station. The police can move you between places of safety.[/p][/quote]General Hospitals do not treat or admit MH patients (At least not in Gwent). The policy at the AB Trust was explained as "We treat broken bones, not broken minds..." And they cannot or won't treat them. SS policy is I gather to 'farm' out MH patients to private areas, mostly with few staff with any training, and a shed full of tranquilizers to keep patients sedated. The way we treat what is 25% of the population with MH issues is a total blight on our humanity. 1 in 4 will suffer MH issues, it could be you, or me, or anyone you know. Face up to it and deal with it properly, depression which near ALL of us suffer with at some time or other, IS an MH issue.. There is little or not real attempt to address them. We are seeing teenagers off the dole expected to manage them... 'helpers' elevated to 'pseudo-nurse' or 'carer' status with none of the qualifications.[/p][/quote]The one in 4 figure can be taken as a general term and could be true for the past say 60 years and yet in that time frame we have lost "over" 100,000 psychiatric beds. I work in psychiatry so I do agree in what you have to say overall, however In what I have experienced about Section 136 patients (a fair few taken from the local suicide spot), it is usually not a mental health problem that is the reason that they are there[/p][/quote]I agree, quite often it's not MH, it can often be drink/drug induced momentarily lapse in control, hence the drunken cry for help. They rarely want to hurt themself, they just don't know what else to do.[/p][/quote]Oh I think in a fair few cases they know what they are doing, usually they are homeless or about to be evicted (or similar social problem) and expect the mental health services to put them up for a night or two. Dr Martin

3:35pm Thu 2 Jan 14

Dr Martin says...

I will go one further and say there are “small minority” who like to waste the time of the health services whether it be A&E, walk in Centre or via a 136 assessment.
These people will think of nothing of using emotional blackmail by threatening to jump off the local suicide spot to get whatever they want.
I will go one further and say there are “small minority” who like to waste the time of the health services whether it be A&E, walk in Centre or via a 136 assessment. These people will think of nothing of using emotional blackmail by threatening to jump off the local suicide spot to get whatever they want. Dr Martin

6:33pm Thu 2 Jan 14

Dixie Smith says...

Dr Martin
I'm so pleased you are 'helping' to fuel the stigma around mental health. I am one of the 1 in 4 and I can tell you for a fact the MH service is poor. I waited 2 years on a waiting list for MH assistance during which time my health deteriorated. I don't do drugs or drink and don't seek attention either.

Before you all make sweeping statements be sure you know what the hell you are talking about ... from the 'service users' point of view.
Dr Martin I'm so pleased you are 'helping' to fuel the stigma around mental health. I am one of the 1 in 4 and I can tell you for a fact the MH service is poor. I waited 2 years on a waiting list for MH assistance during which time my health deteriorated. I don't do drugs or drink and don't seek attention either. Before you all make sweeping statements be sure you know what the hell you are talking about ... from the 'service users' point of view. Dixie Smith

7:46pm Thu 2 Jan 14

Dr Martin says...

Dixie Smith wrote:
Dr Martin
I'm so pleased you are 'helping' to fuel the stigma around mental health. I am one of the 1 in 4 and I can tell you for a fact the MH service is poor. I waited 2 years on a waiting list for MH assistance during which time my health deteriorated. I don't do drugs or drink and don't seek attention either.

Before you all make sweeping statements be sure you know what the hell you are talking about ... from the 'service users' point of view.
Since when does Small Minority equate to a sweeping statement?

I would not argue that mental health delivery can be improved , but it is in better shape than it was say 10 years ago
[quote][p][bold]Dixie Smith[/bold] wrote: Dr Martin I'm so pleased you are 'helping' to fuel the stigma around mental health. I am one of the 1 in 4 and I can tell you for a fact the MH service is poor. I waited 2 years on a waiting list for MH assistance during which time my health deteriorated. I don't do drugs or drink and don't seek attention either. Before you all make sweeping statements be sure you know what the hell you are talking about ... from the 'service users' point of view.[/p][/quote]Since when does Small Minority equate to a sweeping statement? I would not argue that mental health delivery can be improved , but it is in better shape than it was say 10 years ago Dr Martin

9:54am Fri 3 Jan 14

Dixie Smith says...

Dr Martin wrote:
Dixie Smith wrote:
Dr Martin
I'm so pleased you are 'helping' to fuel the stigma around mental health. I am one of the 1 in 4 and I can tell you for a fact the MH service is poor. I waited 2 years on a waiting list for MH assistance during which time my health deteriorated. I don't do drugs or drink and don't seek attention either.

Before you all make sweeping statements be sure you know what the hell you are talking about ... from the 'service users' point of view.
Since when does Small Minority equate to a sweeping statement?

I would not argue that mental health delivery can be improved , but it is in better shape than it was say 10 years ago
You have made all the statements about drugs, drink, attention seeking and all the other misnomers about MH sufferers that make life difficult for individuals like me. If you are a Dr do you sit there in judgement of your 'patients' trying to work out which category they might fall into and THEN consider they might actually have a MH issue? Mental illness can be driven by drink and drugs but many sufferers turn to substance abuse to help alleviate what is a very distressing illness.

MH service is like a revolving door with service users having to jump through hoops. For example if you are a couple of minutes late for your appointment you are publicly humiliated in Goldtops reception by your therapist telling you to make another appointment as she is far too busy to wait for you. Therapist 1/2 hour late and you say something to them you are thrown out the door as a trouble maker. Unless you are a service user you have no right to judge those of us who are.
[quote][p][bold]Dr Martin[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dixie Smith[/bold] wrote: Dr Martin I'm so pleased you are 'helping' to fuel the stigma around mental health. I am one of the 1 in 4 and I can tell you for a fact the MH service is poor. I waited 2 years on a waiting list for MH assistance during which time my health deteriorated. I don't do drugs or drink and don't seek attention either. Before you all make sweeping statements be sure you know what the hell you are talking about ... from the 'service users' point of view.[/p][/quote]Since when does Small Minority equate to a sweeping statement? I would not argue that mental health delivery can be improved , but it is in better shape than it was say 10 years ago[/p][/quote]You have made all the statements about drugs, drink, attention seeking and all the other misnomers about MH sufferers that make life difficult for individuals like me. If you are a Dr do you sit there in judgement of your 'patients' trying to work out which category they might fall into and THEN consider they might actually have a MH issue? Mental illness can be driven by drink and drugs but many sufferers turn to substance abuse to help alleviate what is a very distressing illness. MH service is like a revolving door with service users having to jump through hoops. For example if you are a couple of minutes late for your appointment you are publicly humiliated in Goldtops reception by your therapist telling you to make another appointment as she is far too busy to wait for you. Therapist 1/2 hour late and you say something to them you are thrown out the door as a trouble maker. Unless you are a service user you have no right to judge those of us who are. Dixie Smith

1:39pm Fri 3 Jan 14

Dr Martin says...

Dixie Smith wrote:
Dr Martin wrote:
Dixie Smith wrote:
Dr Martin
I'm so pleased you are 'helping' to fuel the stigma around mental health. I am one of the 1 in 4 and I can tell you for a fact the MH service is poor. I waited 2 years on a waiting list for MH assistance during which time my health deteriorated. I don't do drugs or drink and don't seek attention either.

Before you all make sweeping statements be sure you know what the hell you are talking about ... from the 'service users' point of view.
Since when does Small Minority equate to a sweeping statement?

I would not argue that mental health delivery can be improved , but it is in better shape than it was say 10 years ago
You have made all the statements about drugs, drink, attention seeking and all the other misnomers about MH sufferers that make life difficult for individuals like me. If you are a Dr do you sit there in judgement of your 'patients' trying to work out which category they might fall into and THEN consider they might actually have a MH issue? Mental illness can be driven by drink and drugs but many sufferers turn to substance abuse to help alleviate what is a very distressing illness.

MH service is like a revolving door with service users having to jump through hoops. For example if you are a couple of minutes late for your appointment you are publicly humiliated in Goldtops reception by your therapist telling you to make another appointment as she is far too busy to wait for you. Therapist 1/2 hour late and you say something to them you are thrown out the door as a trouble maker. Unless you are a service user you have no right to judge those of us who are.
Firstly I am not a Doctor just a lowly footsoldier of the NHS, it’s the people who I mentioned in my previous posts that make life difficult for you, they take up more than their fair share of professionals time leaving less time to those who reasons to seek help are genuine.
As far as drug abuse you use the term alleviate I use the term exacerbate especially in regards to cannabis
I am not from Wales so what goes on at Goldtops, sounds as though your therapist could be a little more tolerant but on the other hand if you are saying something to get thrown out then it seems to me you are not blameless
Not a service user I have 10 years experience of Adult mental Health I am free to express my views and will continue to do so
[quote][p][bold]Dixie Smith[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dr Martin[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dixie Smith[/bold] wrote: Dr Martin I'm so pleased you are 'helping' to fuel the stigma around mental health. I am one of the 1 in 4 and I can tell you for a fact the MH service is poor. I waited 2 years on a waiting list for MH assistance during which time my health deteriorated. I don't do drugs or drink and don't seek attention either. Before you all make sweeping statements be sure you know what the hell you are talking about ... from the 'service users' point of view.[/p][/quote]Since when does Small Minority equate to a sweeping statement? I would not argue that mental health delivery can be improved , but it is in better shape than it was say 10 years ago[/p][/quote]You have made all the statements about drugs, drink, attention seeking and all the other misnomers about MH sufferers that make life difficult for individuals like me. If you are a Dr do you sit there in judgement of your 'patients' trying to work out which category they might fall into and THEN consider they might actually have a MH issue? Mental illness can be driven by drink and drugs but many sufferers turn to substance abuse to help alleviate what is a very distressing illness. MH service is like a revolving door with service users having to jump through hoops. For example if you are a couple of minutes late for your appointment you are publicly humiliated in Goldtops reception by your therapist telling you to make another appointment as she is far too busy to wait for you. Therapist 1/2 hour late and you say something to them you are thrown out the door as a trouble maker. Unless you are a service user you have no right to judge those of us who are.[/p][/quote]Firstly I am not a Doctor just a lowly footsoldier of the NHS, it’s the people who I mentioned in my previous posts that make life difficult for you, they take up more than their fair share of professionals time leaving less time to those who reasons to seek help are genuine. As far as drug abuse you use the term alleviate I use the term exacerbate especially in regards to cannabis I am not from Wales so what goes on at Goldtops, sounds as though your therapist could be a little more tolerant but on the other hand if you are saying something to get thrown out then it seems to me you are not blameless Not a service user I have 10 years experience of Adult mental Health I am free to express my views and will continue to do so Dr Martin

9:10pm Fri 3 Jan 14

Dixie Smith says...

Dr Martin wrote:
Dixie Smith wrote:
Dr Martin wrote:
Dixie Smith wrote:
Dr Martin
I'm so pleased you are 'helping' to fuel the stigma around mental health. I am one of the 1 in 4 and I can tell you for a fact the MH service is poor. I waited 2 years on a waiting list for MH assistance during which time my health deteriorated. I don't do drugs or drink and don't seek attention either.

Before you all make sweeping statements be sure you know what the hell you are talking about ... from the 'service users' point of view.
Since when does Small Minority equate to a sweeping statement?

I would not argue that mental health delivery can be improved , but it is in better shape than it was say 10 years ago
You have made all the statements about drugs, drink, attention seeking and all the other misnomers about MH sufferers that make life difficult for individuals like me. If you are a Dr do you sit there in judgement of your 'patients' trying to work out which category they might fall into and THEN consider they might actually have a MH issue? Mental illness can be driven by drink and drugs but many sufferers turn to substance abuse to help alleviate what is a very distressing illness.

MH service is like a revolving door with service users having to jump through hoops. For example if you are a couple of minutes late for your appointment you are publicly humiliated in Goldtops reception by your therapist telling you to make another appointment as she is far too busy to wait for you. Therapist 1/2 hour late and you say something to them you are thrown out the door as a trouble maker. Unless you are a service user you have no right to judge those of us who are.
Firstly I am not a Doctor just a lowly footsoldier of the NHS, it’s the people who I mentioned in my previous posts that make life difficult for you, they take up more than their fair share of professionals time leaving less time to those who reasons to seek help are genuine.
As far as drug abuse you use the term alleviate I use the term exacerbate especially in regards to cannabis
I am not from Wales so what goes on at Goldtops, sounds as though your therapist could be a little more tolerant but on the other hand if you are saying something to get thrown out then it seems to me you are not blameless
Not a service user I have 10 years experience of Adult mental Health I am free to express my views and will continue to do so
There you go again assuming. I was not the one thrown out I just had the misfortune of watching someone being berated in front of me. You certainly are entitled to express your views but not from the service user side you don't.

The only difference in MH now is at least you don't get locked up in the asylum, but rather abandoned to fend for yourself.
[quote][p][bold]Dr Martin[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dixie Smith[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dr Martin[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dixie Smith[/bold] wrote: Dr Martin I'm so pleased you are 'helping' to fuel the stigma around mental health. I am one of the 1 in 4 and I can tell you for a fact the MH service is poor. I waited 2 years on a waiting list for MH assistance during which time my health deteriorated. I don't do drugs or drink and don't seek attention either. Before you all make sweeping statements be sure you know what the hell you are talking about ... from the 'service users' point of view.[/p][/quote]Since when does Small Minority equate to a sweeping statement? I would not argue that mental health delivery can be improved , but it is in better shape than it was say 10 years ago[/p][/quote]You have made all the statements about drugs, drink, attention seeking and all the other misnomers about MH sufferers that make life difficult for individuals like me. If you are a Dr do you sit there in judgement of your 'patients' trying to work out which category they might fall into and THEN consider they might actually have a MH issue? Mental illness can be driven by drink and drugs but many sufferers turn to substance abuse to help alleviate what is a very distressing illness. MH service is like a revolving door with service users having to jump through hoops. For example if you are a couple of minutes late for your appointment you are publicly humiliated in Goldtops reception by your therapist telling you to make another appointment as she is far too busy to wait for you. Therapist 1/2 hour late and you say something to them you are thrown out the door as a trouble maker. Unless you are a service user you have no right to judge those of us who are.[/p][/quote]Firstly I am not a Doctor just a lowly footsoldier of the NHS, it’s the people who I mentioned in my previous posts that make life difficult for you, they take up more than their fair share of professionals time leaving less time to those who reasons to seek help are genuine. As far as drug abuse you use the term alleviate I use the term exacerbate especially in regards to cannabis I am not from Wales so what goes on at Goldtops, sounds as though your therapist could be a little more tolerant but on the other hand if you are saying something to get thrown out then it seems to me you are not blameless Not a service user I have 10 years experience of Adult mental Health I am free to express my views and will continue to do so[/p][/quote]There you go again assuming. I was not the one thrown out I just had the misfortune of watching someone being berated in front of me. You certainly are entitled to express your views but not from the service user side you don't. The only difference in MH now is at least you don't get locked up in the asylum, but rather abandoned to fend for yourself. Dixie Smith

12:01am Sat 4 Jan 14

Dr Martin says...

So I take it you know both sides of the argument between the therapist and the client?

I shall continue to express my views on this subject drawn from my own experiences of working in mental health, as I am not a service user my comments are unlikely to be taken as the service user side anyway.

Your last sentence is better known as care in the community it means you have more control of your life, sleep in your own bed watch your own TV, eat your own food and not have someone do that for you
So I take it you know both sides of the argument between the therapist and the client? I shall continue to express my views on this subject drawn from my own experiences of working in mental health, as I am not a service user my comments are unlikely to be taken as the service user side anyway. Your last sentence is better known as care in the community it means you have more control of your life, sleep in your own bed watch your own TV, eat your own food and not have someone do that for you Dr Martin

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