Welsh-medium education plans 'too vague'

A TEACHING union and a pro-Welsh education campaign group have blasted draft council plans for the future of Welsh-medium education as too vague and lacking in targets.

Their comments come as Gwent councils insist "urgent" work is being done to ensure there are enough Welsh-medium secondary school places in 2016, when Ysgol Gyfun Gwynllyw in Pontypool will be full.

But almost a year on from when the Argus first revealed the school was reaching capacity, neither the authorities nor Welsh Government have released any specific details about how they may achieve this, such as opening a new school.

This is despite plans in Torfaen to expand Welsh-medium primary school places.

Every Welsh council must produce a Welsh in Education Strategic Plan by June 1, for approval by Welsh ministers. Consultation on the draft plans ended yesterday.

After reviewing all 22 plans from across Wales, the group RhAG (Rhieni dros Addysg Gymraeg or Parents for Welsh Medium Education) and the union UCAC (Undeb Cenedlaethol Athrawon Cymru or National Union of Teachers of Wales) found a significant proportion were generally inadequate, lacking in ambition and tangible and measurable targets.

Last May the Argus reported that Ysgol Gyfun Gwynllyw, which had undergone a £12 million revamp to make room for more pupils, will reach its 1,100-pupil capacity by 2016/17.

It is Gwent’s only Welsh-medium secondary school which accepts pupils from neighbouring counties, not just Torfaen.

Caerphilly council opened a new 900-place Welsh school on the former St Illan site in September, as Ysgol Gyfun Cwm Rhymni is set to be well over capacity by 2021, but this only accepts students from that local authority.

Ceri Owen, RhAG development officer called on Welsh Government to adopt a tough stance on this matter and urged the education minister to "use the new powers in his possession to reject all plans which are too weak, general and vague".

Elin Maher, parent and chairwoman of RhAG Newport, said education minister Huw Lewis has promised to be "Stalinistic" if, come June 1, councils' final plans do not spell out exactly what they plan to do to meet demand.

She said that the timeline of opening a new school by September 2016 is doable but "it's still not good enough that we haven't got any information at all" in these draft strategic plans.

Any decision made by the five authorities would still have to go through full public consultation.

Comments (24)

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12:28pm Sat 5 Apr 14

Grüngemüse says...

Huw Lewis Minister for Education
Welsh Assembly Government Cardiff

Dear Minister

How bad do things have to get before you acknowledge the Elephant-in-the-room
,
The dog-in-the-manger, The Sacred cow?

I refer, of course, to Welsh language policies. There needs to be a realisation of the extend to which Welsh Medium Schools (WMS) are dragging down education standards in Wales.

As you know, they get disproportionate funds and support at the expense of mainstream schools.

WMS dump their failures into the mainstream system further depressing their figures. There are typically 50 WMS pupils dumped, damaged, in Caerphilly county every year.

Another false claim by WMS is that their pupils are better equipped to learn more languages. In reality only around a third of pupils at WMS go on to study a modern foreign language, compared with about a half in mainstream schools.

There is a growing industry where parents of pupils at WMS are having to pay for private remedial teaching to make up for the deficiencies of WMS.

After all this, achievement in WMS can only achieve a percentage point or so either way of the figures for mainstream schools.

The 2011 census showed that of the children who were at school in the 2001 census a large proportion no longer identified themselves as Welsh speakers. Which begs the question - what did they learn at school.

There is a glimmer of hope in that compulsory Welsh GCSEs are being reviewed. The whole compulsory teaching of Welsh has degenerated to a forlorn farce. As an additional compulsory subject, over and above those taken in England, it detracts further from potential achievement in Wales. It is high time that this discredited policy is abandoned.

So please don't insult me with some word-processed fob-off about the WAG being fully committed to the Welsh language. After 30 years of legal compulsion and Billions of pounds of support the Welsh language continues to drift out of use. Wales deserves better.

Yours

Still awaiting a reply
Huw Lewis Minister for Education Welsh Assembly Government Cardiff Dear Minister How bad do things have to get before you acknowledge the Elephant-in-the-room , The dog-in-the-manger, The Sacred cow? I refer, of course, to Welsh language policies. There needs to be a realisation of the extend to which Welsh Medium Schools (WMS) are dragging down education standards in Wales. As you know, they get disproportionate funds and support at the expense of mainstream schools. WMS dump their failures into the mainstream system further depressing their figures. There are typically 50 WMS pupils dumped, damaged, in Caerphilly county every year. Another false claim by WMS is that their pupils are better equipped to learn more languages. In reality only around a third of pupils at WMS go on to study a modern foreign language, compared with about a half in mainstream schools. There is a growing industry where parents of pupils at WMS are having to pay for private remedial teaching to make up for the deficiencies of WMS. After all this, achievement in WMS can only achieve a percentage point or so either way of the figures for mainstream schools. The 2011 census showed that of the children who were at school in the 2001 census a large proportion no longer identified themselves as Welsh speakers. Which begs the question - what did they learn at school. There is a glimmer of hope in that compulsory Welsh GCSEs are being reviewed. The whole compulsory teaching of Welsh has degenerated to a forlorn farce. As an additional compulsory subject, over and above those taken in England, it detracts further from potential achievement in Wales. It is high time that this discredited policy is abandoned. So please don't insult me with some word-processed fob-off about the WAG being fully committed to the Welsh language. After 30 years of legal compulsion and Billions of pounds of support the Welsh language continues to drift out of use. Wales deserves better. Yours Still awaiting a reply Grüngemüse
  • Score: 3

1:32pm Sat 5 Apr 14

theviking666 says...

Grüngemüse says...

Huw Lewis Minister for Education
Welsh Assembly Government Cardiff

Dear Minister

How bad do things have to get before you acknowledge the Elephant-in-the-room

,
The dog-in-the-manger, The Sacred cow?

I refer, of course, to Welsh language policies. There needs to be a realisation of the extend to which Welsh Medium Schools (WMS) are dragging down education standards in Wales.

As you know, they get disproportionate funds and support at the expense of mainstream schools.

WMS dump their failures into the mainstream system further depressing their figures. There are typically 50 WMS pupils dumped, damaged, in Caerphilly county every year.

Another false claim by WMS is that their pupils are better equipped to learn more languages. In reality only around a third of pupils at WMS go on to study a modern foreign language, compared with about a half in mainstream schools.

There is a growing industry where parents of pupils at WMS are having to pay for private remedial teaching to make up for the deficiencies of WMS.

After all this, achievement in WMS can only achieve a percentage point or so either way of the figures for mainstream schools.

The 2011 census showed that of the children who were at school in the 2001 census a large proportion no longer identified themselves as Welsh speakers. Which begs the question - what did they learn at school.

There is a glimmer of hope in that compulsory Welsh GCSEs are being reviewed. The whole compulsory teaching of Welsh has degenerated to a forlorn farce. As an additional compulsory subject, over and above those taken in England, it detracts further from potential achievement in Wales. It is high time that this discredited policy is abandoned.

So please don't insult me with some word-processed fob-off about the WAG being fully committed to the Welsh language. After 30 years of legal compulsion and Billions of pounds of support the Welsh language continues to drift out of use. Wales deserves better.

Yours
try sending it in Welsh, see if he answers then.
Grüngemüse says... Huw Lewis Minister for Education Welsh Assembly Government Cardiff Dear Minister How bad do things have to get before you acknowledge the Elephant-in-the-room , The dog-in-the-manger, The Sacred cow? I refer, of course, to Welsh language policies. There needs to be a realisation of the extend to which Welsh Medium Schools (WMS) are dragging down education standards in Wales. As you know, they get disproportionate funds and support at the expense of mainstream schools. WMS dump their failures into the mainstream system further depressing their figures. There are typically 50 WMS pupils dumped, damaged, in Caerphilly county every year. Another false claim by WMS is that their pupils are better equipped to learn more languages. In reality only around a third of pupils at WMS go on to study a modern foreign language, compared with about a half in mainstream schools. There is a growing industry where parents of pupils at WMS are having to pay for private remedial teaching to make up for the deficiencies of WMS. After all this, achievement in WMS can only achieve a percentage point or so either way of the figures for mainstream schools. The 2011 census showed that of the children who were at school in the 2001 census a large proportion no longer identified themselves as Welsh speakers. Which begs the question - what did they learn at school. There is a glimmer of hope in that compulsory Welsh GCSEs are being reviewed. The whole compulsory teaching of Welsh has degenerated to a forlorn farce. As an additional compulsory subject, over and above those taken in England, it detracts further from potential achievement in Wales. It is high time that this discredited policy is abandoned. So please don't insult me with some word-processed fob-off about the WAG being fully committed to the Welsh language. After 30 years of legal compulsion and Billions of pounds of support the Welsh language continues to drift out of use. Wales deserves better. Yours try sending it in Welsh, see if he answers then. theviking666
  • Score: -2

1:48pm Sat 5 Apr 14

lyndon666 says...

Grüngemüse wrote:
Huw Lewis Minister for Education
Welsh Assembly Government Cardiff

Dear Minister

How bad do things have to get before you acknowledge the Elephant-in-the-room

,
The dog-in-the-manger, The Sacred cow?

I refer, of course, to Welsh language policies. There needs to be a realisation of the extend to which Welsh Medium Schools (WMS) are dragging down education standards in Wales.

As you know, they get disproportionate funds and support at the expense of mainstream schools.

WMS dump their failures into the mainstream system further depressing their figures. There are typically 50 WMS pupils dumped, damaged, in Caerphilly county every year.

Another false claim by WMS is that their pupils are better equipped to learn more languages. In reality only around a third of pupils at WMS go on to study a modern foreign language, compared with about a half in mainstream schools.

There is a growing industry where parents of pupils at WMS are having to pay for private remedial teaching to make up for the deficiencies of WMS.

After all this, achievement in WMS can only achieve a percentage point or so either way of the figures for mainstream schools.

The 2011 census showed that of the children who were at school in the 2001 census a large proportion no longer identified themselves as Welsh speakers. Which begs the question - what did they learn at school.

There is a glimmer of hope in that compulsory Welsh GCSEs are being reviewed. The whole compulsory teaching of Welsh has degenerated to a forlorn farce. As an additional compulsory subject, over and above those taken in England, it detracts further from potential achievement in Wales. It is high time that this discredited policy is abandoned.

So please don't insult me with some word-processed fob-off about the WAG being fully committed to the Welsh language. After 30 years of legal compulsion and Billions of pounds of support the Welsh language continues to drift out of use. Wales deserves better.

Yours

Still awaiting a reply
What point are you trying to make exactly in this tedious, rambling and verbose letter? Welsh Medium schools are expanding rapidly due to parental demand, children aren't conscripted into them.

The teaching of Welsh Second Language in English Medium schools is an entirely separate issue, and I hope the imminent review into its teaching will result in the scrapping of the short course GCSE and the full course being made compulsory.
[quote][p][bold]Grüngemüse[/bold] wrote: Huw Lewis Minister for Education Welsh Assembly Government Cardiff Dear Minister How bad do things have to get before you acknowledge the Elephant-in-the-room , The dog-in-the-manger, The Sacred cow? I refer, of course, to Welsh language policies. There needs to be a realisation of the extend to which Welsh Medium Schools (WMS) are dragging down education standards in Wales. As you know, they get disproportionate funds and support at the expense of mainstream schools. WMS dump their failures into the mainstream system further depressing their figures. There are typically 50 WMS pupils dumped, damaged, in Caerphilly county every year. Another false claim by WMS is that their pupils are better equipped to learn more languages. In reality only around a third of pupils at WMS go on to study a modern foreign language, compared with about a half in mainstream schools. There is a growing industry where parents of pupils at WMS are having to pay for private remedial teaching to make up for the deficiencies of WMS. After all this, achievement in WMS can only achieve a percentage point or so either way of the figures for mainstream schools. The 2011 census showed that of the children who were at school in the 2001 census a large proportion no longer identified themselves as Welsh speakers. Which begs the question - what did they learn at school. There is a glimmer of hope in that compulsory Welsh GCSEs are being reviewed. The whole compulsory teaching of Welsh has degenerated to a forlorn farce. As an additional compulsory subject, over and above those taken in England, it detracts further from potential achievement in Wales. It is high time that this discredited policy is abandoned. So please don't insult me with some word-processed fob-off about the WAG being fully committed to the Welsh language. After 30 years of legal compulsion and Billions of pounds of support the Welsh language continues to drift out of use. Wales deserves better. Yours Still awaiting a reply[/p][/quote]What point are you trying to make exactly in this tedious, rambling and verbose letter? Welsh Medium schools are expanding rapidly due to parental demand, children aren't conscripted into them. The teaching of Welsh Second Language in English Medium schools is an entirely separate issue, and I hope the imminent review into its teaching will result in the scrapping of the short course GCSE and the full course being made compulsory. lyndon666
  • Score: 4

2:11pm Sat 5 Apr 14

Dai Rear says...

"What point are you trying to make exactly in this tedious, rambling and verbose letter? "
Abuse. Is there really no argument on your side? Those without a point invariably sink to abuse. Are you the product of one of these Wunderkind Schulen?
"Welsh Medium schools are expanding rapidly due to parental demand, "
Not much choice west of Bristol is there really (thank you Crosland, lower than vermin) unless like me you'd a decent job and were able to send your children to Independents.
"What point are you trying to make exactly in this tedious, rambling and verbose letter? " Abuse. Is there really no argument on your side? Those without a point invariably sink to abuse. Are you the product of one of these Wunderkind Schulen? "Welsh Medium schools are expanding rapidly due to parental demand, " Not much choice west of Bristol is there really (thank you Crosland, lower than vermin) unless like me you'd a decent job and were able to send your children to Independents. Dai Rear
  • Score: -2

2:27pm Sat 5 Apr 14

Grüngemüse says...

Just listened to "Any Questions" on Radio 4.

In response to a question on the money spent supporting the old language the entire panel of politicians were "fully supportive" of the Welsh language.
In Jonathon Dimbleby's straw poll he was taken aback when the entire audience were against the panel.

After 25 years of compulsory Welsh language education the use of the old language continues to decline. True to form the language enthusiasts demand even more compulsion.
Just listened to "Any Questions" on Radio 4. In response to a question on the money spent supporting the old language the entire panel of politicians were "fully supportive" of the Welsh language. In Jonathon Dimbleby's straw poll he was taken aback when the entire audience were against the panel. After 25 years of compulsory Welsh language education the use of the old language continues to decline. True to form the language enthusiasts demand even more compulsion. Grüngemüse
  • Score: 6

5:18pm Sat 5 Apr 14

Mwy Eira says...

This is Wales, we speak Welsh. Just like you, I can send my child to whatever school I like it is no one else's business. Do I constantly criticise parents who choose English medium? No, I don't as it is none of my business. To constantly make derogatory remarks about someone's first language, whatever that may be, is not acceptable.
This is Wales, we speak Welsh. Just like you, I can send my child to whatever school I like it is no one else's business. Do I constantly criticise parents who choose English medium? No, I don't as it is none of my business. To constantly make derogatory remarks about someone's first language, whatever that may be, is not acceptable. Mwy Eira
  • Score: -2

5:41pm Sat 5 Apr 14

Dai Rear says...

Mwy Eira wrote:
This is Wales, we speak Welsh. Just like you, I can send my child to whatever school I like it is no one else's business. Do I constantly criticise parents who choose English medium? No, I don't as it is none of my business. To constantly make derogatory remarks about someone's first language, whatever that may be, is not acceptable.
On the contrary. There's nothing "organic" about it. Viz "Every Welsh council MUST produce a Welsh in Education Strategic Plan by June 1, for approval by Welsh ministers." Sounds more like "whatever I like" is "whatever I compel"
[quote][p][bold]Mwy Eira[/bold] wrote: This is Wales, we speak Welsh. Just like you, I can send my child to whatever school I like it is no one else's business. Do I constantly criticise parents who choose English medium? No, I don't as it is none of my business. To constantly make derogatory remarks about someone's first language, whatever that may be, is not acceptable.[/p][/quote]On the contrary. There's nothing "organic" about it. Viz "Every Welsh council MUST produce a Welsh in Education Strategic Plan by June 1, for approval by Welsh ministers." Sounds more like "whatever I like" is "whatever I compel" Dai Rear
  • Score: 5

6:27pm Sat 5 Apr 14

BUDDAH WELSH says...

Dai Rear I wonder what that stands for? so many nasty comments made about our own language. I sometimes think that this is not actually Welsh peoples comments and we have the right to speak whatever language we choose to like all they immigrants that flood the UK and cost us millions in translators NHS staff will tell about ambulances times when it takes so long to deal with an immigrant who can't speak English. And if we in Wales can waste money on them, then why not the Welsh language I for one support the growth in Welsh Medium Education and any organisation that is connected to it. And for my final few words WME is more regimental than mainstream schools and I worked with both in the past and the WME school have better discipline form reception to 6th form pupils.
Dai Rear I wonder what that stands for? so many nasty comments made about our own language. I sometimes think that this is not actually Welsh peoples comments and we have the right to speak whatever language we choose to like all they immigrants that flood the UK and cost us millions in translators NHS staff will tell about ambulances times when it takes so long to deal with an immigrant who can't speak English. And if we in Wales can waste money on them, then why not the Welsh language I for one support the growth in Welsh Medium Education and any organisation that is connected to it. And for my final few words WME is more regimental than mainstream schools and I worked with both in the past and the WME school have better discipline form reception to 6th form pupils. BUDDAH WELSH
  • Score: -1

6:31pm Sat 5 Apr 14

Mwy Eira says...

Back to the actual subject of this article! Newport haven't submitted a plan though at all. A plan should have implementation dates etc. This document reads more like a policy document. So vague and full of holes and tells us absolutely nothing. We were promised details of the plan for secondary education provision in 2016 would be in this document. Lied to yet again!
Back to the actual subject of this article! Newport haven't submitted a plan though at all. A plan should have implementation dates etc. This document reads more like a policy document. So vague and full of holes and tells us absolutely nothing. We were promised details of the plan for secondary education provision in 2016 would be in this document. Lied to yet again! Mwy Eira
  • Score: -1

6:40pm Sat 5 Apr 14

Mwy Eira says...

They seem to be able plan for children that haven't even been born and on housing developments that have not even been built but seem to be totally incapable of planning for children that actually and are already in the WM system.
They seem to be able plan for children that haven't even been born and on housing developments that have not even been built but seem to be totally incapable of planning for children that actually and are already in the WM system. Mwy Eira
  • Score: 0

6:44pm Sat 5 Apr 14

Dai Rear says...

BUDDAH WELSH wrote:
Dai Rear I wonder what that stands for? so many nasty comments made about our own language. I sometimes think that this is not actually Welsh peoples comments and we have the right to speak whatever language we choose to like all they immigrants that flood the UK and cost us millions in translators NHS staff will tell about ambulances times when it takes so long to deal with an immigrant who can't speak English. And if we in Wales can waste money on them, then why not the Welsh language I for one support the growth in Welsh Medium Education and any organisation that is connected to it. And for my final few words WME is more regimental than mainstream schools and I worked with both in the past and the WME school have better discipline form reception to 6th form pupils.
It's a pseudonym. Hope that helps. I don't think people would say such naughty things if the subject were Catalan, but Welsh has, sadly, for I like it, been in intensive care since before the days of Ms. Waddington, Lady Llanover, who'd have much approved of the bureaucratic apparatus set up now to ventilate the poor old thing.
[quote][p][bold]BUDDAH WELSH[/bold] wrote: Dai Rear I wonder what that stands for? so many nasty comments made about our own language. I sometimes think that this is not actually Welsh peoples comments and we have the right to speak whatever language we choose to like all they immigrants that flood the UK and cost us millions in translators NHS staff will tell about ambulances times when it takes so long to deal with an immigrant who can't speak English. And if we in Wales can waste money on them, then why not the Welsh language I for one support the growth in Welsh Medium Education and any organisation that is connected to it. And for my final few words WME is more regimental than mainstream schools and I worked with both in the past and the WME school have better discipline form reception to 6th form pupils.[/p][/quote]It's a pseudonym. Hope that helps. I don't think people would say such naughty things if the subject were Catalan, but Welsh has, sadly, for I like it, been in intensive care since before the days of Ms. Waddington, Lady Llanover, who'd have much approved of the bureaucratic apparatus set up now to ventilate the poor old thing. Dai Rear
  • Score: -1

6:45pm Sat 5 Apr 14

Mwy Eira says...

*that actually exist*
*that actually exist* Mwy Eira
  • Score: -1

6:57pm Sat 5 Apr 14

Mwy Eira says...

It is has been in intensive care because of comments and attitudes like yours almost hounding out of existence. Yet it is still here despite of those efforts.
It is has been in intensive care because of comments and attitudes like yours almost hounding out of existence. Yet it is still here despite of those efforts. Mwy Eira
  • Score: -4

7:08pm Sat 5 Apr 14

Dai Rear says...

Mwy Eira wrote:
It is has been in intensive care because of comments and attitudes like yours almost hounding out of existence. Yet it is still here despite of those efforts.
Well no, not really. Languages are like anything else evolutionary. They rise and they fall. The funny old language we use has been a great success. Much like the mosquito and the rat I hear you say, and I can't argue with that. The Welsh Knot was a factor but we both know it would have happened anyway. If you look at "textspeak" and the other weird stuff of the 'net, you know that the English we speak is going to mutate massively in the next 30 years. Welsh isn't used enough to mutate. That's how it is, sadly.
[quote][p][bold]Mwy Eira[/bold] wrote: It is has been in intensive care because of comments and attitudes like yours almost hounding out of existence. Yet it is still here despite of those efforts.[/p][/quote]Well no, not really. Languages are like anything else evolutionary. They rise and they fall. The funny old language we use has been a great success. Much like the mosquito and the rat I hear you say, and I can't argue with that. The Welsh Knot was a factor but we both know it would have happened anyway. If you look at "textspeak" and the other weird stuff of the 'net, you know that the English we speak is going to mutate massively in the next 30 years. Welsh isn't used enough to mutate. That's how it is, sadly. Dai Rear
  • Score: 0

7:33pm Sat 5 Apr 14

Mwy Eira says...

And why has English a great success? Because of propoganda that it is more civilised. It was forced on other cultures. I love English, its idiosyncrasies etc but it is not better than any other language just because more people speak it. Every language should be valued whatever it is. No one should be belittled for the language they speak. Parents were up in arms in one school in Newport when it was suggested that Urdu classes should be offered to all pupils on a Saturday at the school. Parents immediately interpreted that it would be compulsory, and the rants were pathetic. I'd be quite happy for mine to have a go.
And why has English a great success? Because of propoganda that it is more civilised. It was forced on other cultures. I love English, its idiosyncrasies etc but it is not better than any other language just because more people speak it. Every language should be valued whatever it is. No one should be belittled for the language they speak. Parents were up in arms in one school in Newport when it was suggested that Urdu classes should be offered to all pupils on a Saturday at the school. Parents immediately interpreted that it would be compulsory, and the rants were pathetic. I'd be quite happy for mine to have a go. Mwy Eira
  • Score: -4

7:41pm Sat 5 Apr 14

Dai Rear says...

Mwy Eira wrote:
And why has English a great success? Because of propoganda that it is more civilised. It was forced on other cultures. I love English, its idiosyncrasies etc but it is not better than any other language just because more people speak it. Every language should be valued whatever it is. No one should be belittled for the language they speak. Parents were up in arms in one school in Newport when it was suggested that Urdu classes should be offered to all pupils on a Saturday at the school. Parents immediately interpreted that it would be compulsory, and the rants were pathetic. I'd be quite happy for mine to have a go.
Probably not propaganda but imperialism. I don't think anyone suggested it had anything to do with "cives". There is no order of merit in languages and no one would suggest there is. You wear a tie, your father wore a bow tie. Your son doesn't wear either. How it is. I'd not bother with Urdu. Mandarin or Cantonese would make more sense. Good luck!
[quote][p][bold]Mwy Eira[/bold] wrote: And why has English a great success? Because of propoganda that it is more civilised. It was forced on other cultures. I love English, its idiosyncrasies etc but it is not better than any other language just because more people speak it. Every language should be valued whatever it is. No one should be belittled for the language they speak. Parents were up in arms in one school in Newport when it was suggested that Urdu classes should be offered to all pupils on a Saturday at the school. Parents immediately interpreted that it would be compulsory, and the rants were pathetic. I'd be quite happy for mine to have a go.[/p][/quote]Probably not propaganda but imperialism. I don't think anyone suggested it had anything to do with "cives". There is no order of merit in languages and no one would suggest there is. You wear a tie, your father wore a bow tie. Your son doesn't wear either. How it is. I'd not bother with Urdu. Mandarin or Cantonese would make more sense. Good luck! Dai Rear
  • Score: -1

7:50pm Sat 5 Apr 14

Mwy Eira says...

Dai Rear wrote:
Mwy Eira wrote:
And why has English a great success? Because of propoganda that it is more civilised. It was forced on other cultures. I love English, its idiosyncrasies etc but it is not better than any other language just because more people speak it. Every language should be valued whatever it is. No one should be belittled for the language they speak. Parents were up in arms in one school in Newport when it was suggested that Urdu classes should be offered to all pupils on a Saturday at the school. Parents immediately interpreted that it would be compulsory, and the rants were pathetic. I'd be quite happy for mine to have a go.
Probably not propaganda but imperialism. I don't think anyone suggested it had anything to do with "cives". There is no order of merit in languages and no one would suggest there is. You wear a tie, your father wore a bow tie. Your son doesn't wear either. How it is. I'd not bother with Urdu. Mandarin or Cantonese would make more sense. Good luck!
Quite. And you have proved a point that it is possible to express an opinion and have a reasoned debate without being rude and resorting to insulting comments about the Welsh language. Shame others on here can't do the same.
[quote][p][bold]Dai Rear[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Mwy Eira[/bold] wrote: And why has English a great success? Because of propoganda that it is more civilised. It was forced on other cultures. I love English, its idiosyncrasies etc but it is not better than any other language just because more people speak it. Every language should be valued whatever it is. No one should be belittled for the language they speak. Parents were up in arms in one school in Newport when it was suggested that Urdu classes should be offered to all pupils on a Saturday at the school. Parents immediately interpreted that it would be compulsory, and the rants were pathetic. I'd be quite happy for mine to have a go.[/p][/quote]Probably not propaganda but imperialism. I don't think anyone suggested it had anything to do with "cives". There is no order of merit in languages and no one would suggest there is. You wear a tie, your father wore a bow tie. Your son doesn't wear either. How it is. I'd not bother with Urdu. Mandarin or Cantonese would make more sense. Good luck![/p][/quote]Quite. And you have proved a point that it is possible to express an opinion and have a reasoned debate without being rude and resorting to insulting comments about the Welsh language. Shame others on here can't do the same. Mwy Eira
  • Score: 0

8:47pm Sat 5 Apr 14

sylwebydd says...

We're Welsh. This is Wales. We speak Welsh. Get over it. Oh, and some of you don't actually have a very strong command of the English language, unlike those of us who have been through Welsh medium education.
We're Welsh. This is Wales. We speak Welsh. Get over it. Oh, and some of you don't actually have a very strong command of the English language, unlike those of us who have been through Welsh medium education. sylwebydd
  • Score: -2

8:52pm Sat 5 Apr 14

Anloukh says...

Rhetoric aside, there are children in the Welsh medium school system that will not have appropriate High School provision come 2016. They should be our concern and focus. As a parent of such a child I feel let down terribly by officials that promised from nursery age that she would be taken care of. I am only one of many parents who feel this way. Sense needs to prevail here and solutions found.
I'm Welsh and proud of it but I'm ashamed of those who have made promises and not followed through.
Rhetoric aside, there are children in the Welsh medium school system that will not have appropriate High School provision come 2016. They should be our concern and focus. As a parent of such a child I feel let down terribly by officials that promised from nursery age that she would be taken care of. I am only one of many parents who feel this way. Sense needs to prevail here and solutions found. I'm Welsh and proud of it but I'm ashamed of those who have made promises and not followed through. Anloukh
  • Score: -1

9:54pm Sat 5 Apr 14

Llanmartinangel says...

Anloukh wrote:
Rhetoric aside, there are children in the Welsh medium school system that will not have appropriate High School provision come 2016. They should be our concern and focus. As a parent of such a child I feel let down terribly by officials that promised from nursery age that she would be taken care of. I am only one of many parents who feel this way. Sense needs to prevail here and solutions found.
I'm Welsh and proud of it but I'm ashamed of those who have made promises and not followed through.
'As a parent of such a child I feel let down terribly by officials that promised from nursery age that she would be taken care of'.

If you want your child educated in Welsh there's nothing stopping you paying for it. The main language of Wales is English. As long as your child is given an education then the state has met its obligation surely?
[quote][p][bold]Anloukh[/bold] wrote: Rhetoric aside, there are children in the Welsh medium school system that will not have appropriate High School provision come 2016. They should be our concern and focus. As a parent of such a child I feel let down terribly by officials that promised from nursery age that she would be taken care of. I am only one of many parents who feel this way. Sense needs to prevail here and solutions found. I'm Welsh and proud of it but I'm ashamed of those who have made promises and not followed through.[/p][/quote]'As a parent of such a child I feel let down terribly by officials that promised from nursery age that she would be taken care of'. If you want your child educated in Welsh there's nothing stopping you paying for it. The main language of Wales is English. As long as your child is given an education then the state has met its obligation surely? Llanmartinangel
  • Score: 1

8:46am Sun 6 Apr 14

Dai Rear says...

sylwebydd wrote:
We're Welsh. This is Wales. We speak Welsh. Get over it. Oh, and some of you don't actually have a very strong command of the English language, unlike those of us who have been through Welsh medium education.
Oh dear. Spouting the silly homosexual slogan emblazoned on London buses does absolutely nothing to further the cause, does it? And I fear you will find that very few experts on English have been anywhere near any Welsh medium education. So, not very good. Try again?
[quote][p][bold]sylwebydd[/bold] wrote: We're Welsh. This is Wales. We speak Welsh. Get over it. Oh, and some of you don't actually have a very strong command of the English language, unlike those of us who have been through Welsh medium education.[/p][/quote]Oh dear. Spouting the silly homosexual slogan emblazoned on London buses does absolutely nothing to further the cause, does it? And I fear you will find that very few experts on English have been anywhere near any Welsh medium education. So, not very good. Try again? Dai Rear
  • Score: 3

4:09pm Sun 6 Apr 14

Llanmartinangel says...

sylwebydd wrote:
We're Welsh. This is Wales. We speak Welsh. Get over it. Oh, and some of you don't actually have a very strong command of the English language, unlike those of us who have been through Welsh medium education.
'We' don't speak Welsh actually. Check out why National Savings dropped their Welsh service because virtually no Welsh savers (only 107) used it. Or why Barclays revealed that less than 3% of users of cash machines here press the Welsh Language' option button. The (falling) 20% claimed on census forms is wannabe bravado not actuality.

http://m.bbc.com/new
s/uk-wales-21993724
[quote][p][bold]sylwebydd[/bold] wrote: We're Welsh. This is Wales. We speak Welsh. Get over it. Oh, and some of you don't actually have a very strong command of the English language, unlike those of us who have been through Welsh medium education.[/p][/quote]'We' don't speak Welsh actually. Check out why National Savings dropped their Welsh service because virtually no Welsh savers (only 107) used it. Or why Barclays revealed that less than 3% of users of cash machines here press the Welsh Language' option button. The (falling) 20% claimed on census forms is wannabe bravado not actuality. http://m.bbc.com/new s/uk-wales-21993724 Llanmartinangel
  • Score: 4

5:08pm Sun 6 Apr 14

varteg1 says...

quote..... lyndon666

...."Welsh Medium schools are expanding rapidly due to parental demand, children aren't conscripted into them....."


That is exactly the point, kids ARE being conscripted in to them. and parents usually make sure they start at an age early enough to not realise what they are being 'conscripted' into.



quote..... BW.....



...."Dai Rear I wonder what that stands for? so many nasty comments made about our own language. ....

Our own language?

If the majority were fluent in it, were supportive of, and it was the basic language of commerce, daily intercourse, and the base on which the educational curriculum was constructed, it may be called 'our own language' it meets none of the criteria to be so called, therefore you entitle it incorrectly..

After some of the comments you have made on this forum I wonder just how competent you are in 'OUR OWN' language?
quote..... lyndon666 ...."Welsh Medium schools are expanding rapidly due to parental demand, children aren't conscripted into them....." That is exactly the point, kids ARE being conscripted in to them. and parents usually make sure they start at an age early enough to not realise what they are being 'conscripted' into. quote..... BW..... ...."Dai Rear I wonder what that stands for? so many nasty comments made about our own language. .... Our own language? If the majority were fluent in it, were supportive of, and it was the basic language of commerce, daily intercourse, and the base on which the educational curriculum was constructed, it may be called 'our own language' it meets none of the criteria to be so called, therefore you entitle it incorrectly.. After some of the comments you have made on this forum I wonder just how competent you are in 'OUR OWN' language? varteg1
  • Score: 4

5:26pm Sun 6 Apr 14

varteg1 says...

Mwy Eira wrote:
And why has English a great success? Because of propoganda that it is more civilised. It was forced on other cultures. I love English, its idiosyncrasies etc but it is not better than any other language just because more people speak it. Every language should be valued whatever it is. No one should be belittled for the language they speak. Parents were up in arms in one school in Newport when it was suggested that Urdu classes should be offered to all pupils on a Saturday at the school. Parents immediately interpreted that it would be compulsory, and the rants were pathetic. I'd be quite happy for mine to have a go.
Actually English may have been 'exported'round the world when most of the map was coloured red, but if it was not for the last two world wars, it would have probably settled as a second or third language in far fewer nations than it has.

What made the difference, hence the global take up, was the advent of radio communications. especially in the matter of air transport.
latterly of course came the Internet which has spread English even further as younger and younger people got on line.

It displaces other languages for the simple reason it is far more expressive and comprehensive than most. A factor that any language teacher can confirm.
The main reason why Cymraeg is dying out, despite all the vast sums thrown at it, is because the language is unplaced in world requirements.

Beyond the Marches and the Dee and Severn it is defunct, and even in Wales it cannot hold it's own. Here it has to be forced into the social fabric via the educational system. It is a phony demand set in motion, and fallen for by a few thousand parents, political smart **** and their sycophants.

Sooner or later intelligence will come to the fore and it will,once again sink in to the oblivion it really deserves.
I repeat the oft quoted mantra. "if you want it, pay for it yourself", just as I have to do if I want to become the owner of something.
[quote][p][bold]Mwy Eira[/bold] wrote: And why has English a great success? Because of propoganda that it is more civilised. It was forced on other cultures. I love English, its idiosyncrasies etc but it is not better than any other language just because more people speak it. Every language should be valued whatever it is. No one should be belittled for the language they speak. Parents were up in arms in one school in Newport when it was suggested that Urdu classes should be offered to all pupils on a Saturday at the school. Parents immediately interpreted that it would be compulsory, and the rants were pathetic. I'd be quite happy for mine to have a go.[/p][/quote]Actually English may have been 'exported'round the world when most of the map was coloured red, but if it was not for the last two world wars, it would have probably settled as a second or third language in far fewer nations than it has. What made the difference, hence the global take up, was the advent of radio communications. especially in the matter of air transport. latterly of course came the Internet which has spread English even further as younger and younger people got on line. It displaces other languages for the simple reason it is far more expressive and comprehensive than most. A factor that any language teacher can confirm. The main reason why Cymraeg is dying out, despite all the vast sums thrown at it, is because the language is unplaced in world requirements. Beyond the Marches and the Dee and Severn it is defunct, and even in Wales it cannot hold it's own. Here it has to be forced into the social fabric via the educational system. It is a phony demand set in motion, and fallen for by a few thousand parents, political smart **** and their sycophants. Sooner or later intelligence will come to the fore and it will,once again sink in to the oblivion it really deserves. I repeat the oft quoted mantra. "if you want it, pay for it yourself", just as I have to do if I want to become the owner of something. varteg1
  • Score: 1

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