Girls arrested for Cwmcarn school 'murder plot'

South Wales Argus: Schoolgirls arrested in plot to murder teacher Schoolgirls arrested in plot to murder teacher

UPDATE: 8.20pm

It is understood the girls were arrested after concerns about behaviour were reported, and a knife was discovered in a bag. It is also understood the threat to kill allegation involved a teacher, named locally as maths teacher Alison Cray, but that no confrontation took place

 

UPDATE: 4.34pm

Cwmcarn resident, Gary Lewis, told the Argus: "Living near the school, I see pupils all the time and you would never expect them to be carrying any sort of weapon as it's generally a good school."

His wife, Angela, added: "Both of our children are training to be teachers and I would be scared for their safety if schools don't introduce ways of preventing pupils from carrying weapons.

"Schools need to stop burying their heads in the sand and become more like American schools before another incident occurs."

UPDATE: 4.01pm

A statement on Cwmcarn High school's website, posted at 4pm today said the following:

"You may be aware that concerns were raised about a pupil in the school yesterday.

"Please be assured that that the concerns were dealt with swiftly. There was no risk to any staff or learner and the relevant support services were contacted as a precautionary measure.

"Cwmcarn High is a caring and safe environment and we are committed to everyone’s safety. Please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any concerns."

UPDATE: 3.26pm

TWO TEENAGE girls were arrested at Cwmcarn High school yesterday for conspiracy to commit murder.

A Gwent police spokeswoman said: "Officers were called to Cwmcarn High School at approximately 11:54am, Thursday May 1, following concerns being raised about the behaviour of two pupils.

"Officers attended and arrested a 15-year-old girl from Newbridge and a 14-year-old girl from Risca.

"They have since both been released on police bail pending further enquiries.

"Nobody was harmed as a result of the incident, and the matter was resolved peacefully."

The 15-year-old girl from Newbridge was arrested on suspicion of threats to kill, possession of a bladed article on a school premises and conspiracy to commit murder. The 14-year-old girl from Risca was arrested on suspicion of conspiracy to commit murder.

A spokesman for Caerphilly County Borough Council and Cwmcarn High School said: "We can confirm that concerns were raised about a pupil at Cwmcarn High School yesterday which were swiftly dealt with by staff and Gwent Police.

“Support is now in place for both pupils and staff and we would like to assure parents that all appropriate steps were taken to respond effectively to the situation. We are now helping the Police with their enquiries."

Comments (33)

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7:21pm Fri 2 May 14

displayed says...

Pubescent schoolgirls are a dangerous combination, as jealousy an insecurity can b a real killer!
Their on the road to destruction!
Pubescent schoolgirls are a dangerous combination, as jealousy an insecurity can b a real killer! Their on the road to destruction! displayed
  • Score: -6

7:37pm Fri 2 May 14

Realist UK says...

Are schools obliged to contact the police in all circumstances involving a knife? Or does the Head have the authority to use discretion? I'd really like to know the answer to this question.
Are schools obliged to contact the police in all circumstances involving a knife? Or does the Head have the authority to use discretion? I'd really like to know the answer to this question. Realist UK
  • Score: -14

9:15pm Fri 2 May 14

hazellboy says...

Realist UK wrote:
Are schools obliged to contact the police in all circumstances involving a knife? Or does the Head have the authority to use discretion? I'd really like to know the answer to this question.
of course they should contact police, recent events should endorse this, if I had my way I would name/show photographs of these girls , same with the Leeds killer
[quote][p][bold]Realist UK[/bold] wrote: Are schools obliged to contact the police in all circumstances involving a knife? Or does the Head have the authority to use discretion? I'd really like to know the answer to this question.[/p][/quote]of course they should contact police, recent events should endorse this, if I had my way I would name/show photographs of these girls , same with the Leeds killer hazellboy
  • Score: 23

9:31pm Fri 2 May 14

displayed says...

No mention of who the intended victim was to be, teacher or pupil!
The school and the parents need to know!
No mention of who the intended victim was to be, teacher or pupil! The school and the parents need to know! displayed
  • Score: -13

9:58pm Fri 2 May 14

slimboy88 says...

displayed wrote:
No mention of who the intended victim was to be, teacher or pupil!
The school and the parents need to know!
First paragraph updated at 8.20pm gives the name of a teacher who was the alleged intended victim. This was an hour or so before your comment.
[quote][p][bold]displayed[/bold] wrote: No mention of who the intended victim was to be, teacher or pupil! The school and the parents need to know![/p][/quote]First paragraph updated at 8.20pm gives the name of a teacher who was the alleged intended victim. This was an hour or so before your comment. slimboy88
  • Score: 17

10:16pm Fri 2 May 14

displayed says...

"paragraph updated at 8.20pm gives the name of a teacher"

Well there u go then, another teacher under threat of their life, unlike the other lady who lost hers in such a savage, brutal an inhumane way!
"paragraph updated at 8.20pm gives the name of a teacher" Well there u go then, another teacher under threat of their life, unlike the other lady who lost hers in such a savage, brutal an inhumane way! displayed
  • Score: 7

10:20pm Fri 2 May 14

displayed says...

From the Mail:
"They have since both been released on police bail pending further enquiries.
A decision will be made next week if the girls will be allowed back to school."

So they are free to plot an plan again..........
From the Mail: "They have since both been released on police bail pending further enquiries. A decision will be made next week if the girls will be allowed back to school." So they are free to plot an plan again.......... displayed
  • Score: 1

10:38pm Fri 2 May 14

Bobevans says...

displayed wrote:
From the Mail:
"They have since both been released on police bail pending further enquiries.
A decision will be made next week if the girls will be allowed back to school."

So they are free to plot an plan again..........
Seems pretty daft to allow them back in school before a full investigation has been carried out and that would take far more than a week. They would also need to carry out a full medical assessment as to their mental health etc
[quote][p][bold]displayed[/bold] wrote: From the Mail: "They have since both been released on police bail pending further enquiries. A decision will be made next week if the girls will be allowed back to school." So they are free to plot an plan again..........[/p][/quote]Seems pretty daft to allow them back in school before a full investigation has been carried out and that would take far more than a week. They would also need to carry out a full medical assessment as to their mental health etc Bobevans
  • Score: 13

10:41pm Fri 2 May 14

Bobevans says...

displayed wrote:
From the Mail:
"They have since both been released on police bail pending further enquiries.
A decision will be made next week if the girls will be allowed back to school."

So they are free to plot an plan again..........
The daft Head Mistress says there was no risk. That is the most stupid and daft statement ever. There was a plot so there was a risk
[quote][p][bold]displayed[/bold] wrote: From the Mail: "They have since both been released on police bail pending further enquiries. A decision will be made next week if the girls will be allowed back to school." So they are free to plot an plan again..........[/p][/quote]The daft Head Mistress says there was no risk. That is the most stupid and daft statement ever. There was a plot so there was a risk Bobevans
  • Score: 13

11:29pm Fri 2 May 14

displayed says...

From the school website:
2nd May 2014

Dear parents/carers,

You may be aware that concerns were raised about a pupil in the school yesterday.

Please be assured that that the concerns were dealt with swiftly. There was no risk to any staff or learner and the relevant support services were contacted as a precautionary measure.

Cwmcarn High is a caring and safe environment and we are committed to everyone’s safety. Please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any concerns.

Yours sincerely,

Mrs Peplinski

Headteacher

********************
********************
********************
********************
**
"You may be aware that concerns were raised about a pupil in the school yesterday."
"There was no risk to any staff or learner"
What are they teaching their staff an pupils in that school to believe that an attempted murder threat made against a member of staff wasn't a real concern!
From the school website: 2nd May 2014 Dear parents/carers, You may be aware that concerns were raised about a pupil in the school yesterday. Please be assured that that the concerns were dealt with swiftly. There was no risk to any staff or learner and the relevant support services were contacted as a precautionary measure. Cwmcarn High is a caring and safe environment and we are committed to everyone’s safety. Please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any concerns. Yours sincerely, Mrs Peplinski Headteacher ******************** ******************** ******************** ******************** ** "You may be aware that concerns were raised about a pupil in the school yesterday." "There was no risk to any staff or learner" What are they teaching their staff an pupils in that school to believe that an attempted murder threat made against a member of staff wasn't a real concern! displayed
  • Score: 3

7:02am Sat 3 May 14

Bem1978 says...

The daily mail gives a balanced article worth reading to allay fears
The daily mail gives a balanced article worth reading to allay fears Bem1978
  • Score: 4

7:52am Sat 3 May 14

Bobevans says...

Bem1978 wrote:
The daily mail gives a balanced article worth reading to allay fears
You are just demonstrating that you are as daft as this headmistress and have just as much poor judgement that she has. Since when has the Daily Mail been an official source of police information?

At the moment we know that two girls have been arrested for an attempted plot to murder a teacher. That's a very serious charge. The matter has not been fully investigated so at present there is potentially a high risk and as such caution should be excercised
[quote][p][bold]Bem1978[/bold] wrote: The daily mail gives a balanced article worth reading to allay fears[/p][/quote]You are just demonstrating that you are as daft as this headmistress and have just as much poor judgement that she has. Since when has the Daily Mail been an official source of police information? At the moment we know that two girls have been arrested for an attempted plot to murder a teacher. That's a very serious charge. The matter has not been fully investigated so at present there is potentially a high risk and as such caution should be excercised Bobevans
  • Score: 12

8:04am Sat 3 May 14

regaturn says...

The girls were arrested at midday and released by 6pm on allegations of threats to kill and conspiracy to murder? I would imagine that this was a total over reaction to the facts by Gwent Police, and tell will tell!
The girls were arrested at midday and released by 6pm on allegations of threats to kill and conspiracy to murder? I would imagine that this was a total over reaction to the facts by Gwent Police, and tell will tell! regaturn
  • Score: -2

8:12am Sat 3 May 14

Ceri says...

Experiencing acts of the "local kids" in my area, nothing surprises me!
Experiencing acts of the "local kids" in my area, nothing surprises me! Ceri
  • Score: 14

10:24am Sat 3 May 14

Realist UK says...

hazellboy wrote:
Realist UK wrote: Are schools obliged to contact the police in all circumstances involving a knife? Or does the Head have the authority to use discretion? I'd really like to know the answer to this question.
of course they should contact police, recent events should endorse this, if I had my way I would name/show photographs of these girls , same with the Leeds killer
It wasn't a rhetorical question. I wanted to know if they are duty bound or not in contacting the police. Personal opinions aside, does anyone know for sure?
[quote][p][bold]hazellboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Realist UK[/bold] wrote: Are schools obliged to contact the police in all circumstances involving a knife? Or does the Head have the authority to use discretion? I'd really like to know the answer to this question.[/p][/quote]of course they should contact police, recent events should endorse this, if I had my way I would name/show photographs of these girls , same with the Leeds killer[/p][/quote]It wasn't a rhetorical question. I wanted to know if they are duty bound or not in contacting the police. Personal opinions aside, does anyone know for sure? Realist UK
  • Score: -1

10:34am Sat 3 May 14

displayed says...

Possession of Blades/Points

Section 139 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 prohibits having with you, in a public place of any article which has a blade or is sharply pointed, (including a folding pocket knife if the cutting edge of its blade exceeds 7.62cm/3 inches) (Archbold 24-125).

Section 139A of the 1988 Act extends the geographical scope of both of the above offences to school premises.

For the purposes of sections 139 and 139A of the Act:

a butterknife, with no cutting edge and no point is a bladed article; (Booker v DPP 169).P.368, DC);
a screwdriver is not a bladed article; R v Davis Crim L.R. 564 CA);
a "lock knife" doe not come into the category of "folding pocket knife2 because it is not immediately foldable at all times; (R v Deegan 2 Cr. App. R. 121 CA).
Section 139AA of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 makes it an offence to unlawfully and intentionally threaten another person with an offensive weapon or bladed article in a public place or on school premises, in such a way that there is an immediate risk of serious physical harm to that other person.

For the purpose of this section, serious physical harm is defined as grevous bodily harm. The term 'public place' has the same meaning as in section 139 above and 'school premises' has the same meaning as in section 139A above.

Unlike an offence contrary to section 139, it matters not whether a person was initially in lawful possession.

Where a person is convicted of an offence contrary to section 139AA the court must (in the case of an adult) impose a custodial sentence of at least 6 months, unless it would be unjust to do so. the power to impose a community order is not exercisable where the mandatory minimum sentence condition is met.

In the case of a youth aged 16 or 17 when convicted, the court must impose a detention and training order of at least 4 months. The power to impose a youth rehabilitation order is not exercisable where the mandatory minimum sentence condition is met.

in addition, if a person is found not guilty (whether on indictment or not) of an offence contrary to section 139AA, but it is proved that they committeed an offence contrary to section 139 or 139A they can be convicted of the basic offence in the alternative.

Powers to search for blades/points

The police power to search school premises for bladed and pointed article and offensive weapons was amended by section 48 Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006 with effect from 31 May 2007 and allows the police to exercise this power if there are reasonable grounds for suspecting that an offence under section 139A (having a bladed or pointed article or offensive weapon on school premises) is being committed.

Section 550AA Education Act 1996 gives members of staff power to search school pupils for bladed and pointed articles and offensive weapons.

Section 85B Further and Higher Education Act 1992 gives members of staff power to search students at an institute for further education for bladed and pointed articles and offensive weapons. Section 47 Violent Crime Reduction Act 2007 extends this power to search to staff at attendance centres with effect from 1 October 2007.
Possession of Blades/Points Section 139 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 prohibits having with you, in a public place of any article which has a blade or is sharply pointed, (including a folding pocket knife if the cutting edge of its blade exceeds 7.62cm/3 inches) (Archbold 24-125). Section 139A of the 1988 Act extends the geographical scope of both of the above offences to school premises. For the purposes of sections 139 and 139A of the Act: a butterknife, with no cutting edge and no point is a bladed article; (Booker v DPP 169).P.368, DC); a screwdriver is not a bladed article; R v Davis [1998] Crim L.R. 564 CA); a "lock knife" doe not come into the category of "folding pocket knife2 because it is not immediately foldable at all times; (R v Deegan [1998] 2 Cr. App. R. 121 CA). Section 139AA of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 makes it an offence to unlawfully and intentionally threaten another person with an offensive weapon or bladed article in a public place or on school premises, in such a way that there is an immediate risk of serious physical harm to that other person. For the purpose of this section, serious physical harm is defined as grevous bodily harm. The term 'public place' has the same meaning as in section 139 above and 'school premises' has the same meaning as in section 139A above. Unlike an offence contrary to section 139, it matters not whether a person was initially in lawful possession. Where a person is convicted of an offence contrary to section 139AA the court must (in the case of an adult) impose a custodial sentence of at least 6 months, unless it would be unjust to do so. the power to impose a community order is not exercisable where the mandatory minimum sentence condition is met. In the case of a youth aged 16 or 17 when convicted, the court must impose a detention and training order of at least 4 months. The power to impose a youth rehabilitation order is not exercisable where the mandatory minimum sentence condition is met. in addition, if a person is found not guilty (whether on indictment or not) of an offence contrary to section 139AA, but it is proved that they committeed an offence contrary to section 139 or 139A they can be convicted of the basic offence in the alternative. Powers to search for blades/points The police power to search school premises for bladed and pointed article and offensive weapons was amended by section 48 Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006 with effect from 31 May 2007 and allows the police to exercise this power if there are reasonable grounds for suspecting that an offence under section 139A (having a bladed or pointed article or offensive weapon on school premises) is being committed. Section 550AA Education Act 1996 gives members of staff power to search school pupils for bladed and pointed articles and offensive weapons. Section 85B Further and Higher Education Act 1992 gives members of staff power to search students at an institute for further education for bladed and pointed articles and offensive weapons. Section 47 Violent Crime Reduction Act 2007 extends this power to search to staff at attendance centres with effect from 1 October 2007. displayed
  • Score: -1

10:48am Sat 3 May 14

displayed says...

Whether schools should be obligated to inform the police if a knife is found on school premises is a moot point.
It would seem depend on the discretion of the school an their response to the perceived threat:

Possession of Blades/Points:
The guidelines provide three categories of seriousness:

Level One applies where a person has a weapon or bladed article, is not in a "dangerous circumstance" and the weapon or bladed article is not used to threaten or cause fear.

Level Two applies where a weapon is in the possession of the offender in "dangerous circumstances" but is not used to threaten or cause fear.

Level Three applies where a weapon is used in "dangerous circumstances" to threaten or cause fear.

"Dangerous circumstance" has not been judicially defined but was used in the previous Court of Appeal guideline judgment in Celaire and Poulton. In relation to a knife, a circumstance is likely to be dangerous if there is a real possibility that it could be used.

In making its decision on sentence, the magistrates' court is required to consider offence seriousness, (culpability and harm) and aggravating features and then go on to consider offender mitigating features.

Offence seriousness (culpability and harm) A.

Identify the appropriate starting point.

Starting points based on first time offender pleading not guilty.

Example of nature of activity: Weapon no used to threaten or cause fear
Starting Point: High level community order where the offensive weapon is not a knife. Close to 12 weeks custody where the weapon is a knife
Range: Band C fine to 12 weeks custody

Example of nature of activity: Weapon not used to threaten or cause fear but offence committed in dangerous circumstances
Starting Point: 6 weeks custody where the weapon is not a knife. A custodial sentence in excess of 6 months where the weapon is a knife
Range: High level community order to Crown Court

Example of nature of activity: Weapon used to threaten or cause fear; and offence committed in dangerous circumstances
Starting Point: A custodial sentence in excess of 6 months (Crown Court)
Range: Crown Court

Offence Seriousness (culpability and harm) B

Consider the effect of aggravating and mitigating factors (other than those within examples above).

Common aggravating and mitigating factors - the following may be particularly relevant but these lists are not exhaustive.

Factors indicating higher culpability:

Particularly dangerous weapon
Specifically planned use of weapon to commit violence, threaten violence or intimidate
Offence motivated by hostility towards minority individual or group
Offender under influence of drink or drugs
Offender operating in group or gang.
Factors indicating greater degree of harm:

Offence committed at school, hospital or other place where vulnerable persons may be present.
********************
********************
********************
******************
Perhaps a police spokesman would care to offer an opinion.............
Whether schools should be obligated to inform the police if a knife is found on school premises is a moot point. It would seem depend on the discretion of the school an their response to the perceived threat: Possession of Blades/Points: The guidelines provide three categories of seriousness: Level One applies where a person has a weapon or bladed article, is not in a "dangerous circumstance" and the weapon or bladed article is not used to threaten or cause fear. Level Two applies where a weapon is in the possession of the offender in "dangerous circumstances" but is not used to threaten or cause fear. Level Three applies where a weapon is used in "dangerous circumstances" to threaten or cause fear. "Dangerous circumstance" has not been judicially defined but was used in the previous Court of Appeal guideline judgment in Celaire and Poulton. In relation to a knife, a circumstance is likely to be dangerous if there is a real possibility that it could be used. In making its decision on sentence, the magistrates' court is required to consider offence seriousness, (culpability and harm) and aggravating features and then go on to consider offender mitigating features. Offence seriousness (culpability and harm) A. Identify the appropriate starting point. Starting points based on first time offender pleading not guilty. Example of nature of activity: Weapon no used to threaten or cause fear Starting Point: High level community order where the offensive weapon is not a knife. Close to 12 weeks custody where the weapon is a knife Range: Band C fine to 12 weeks custody Example of nature of activity: Weapon not used to threaten or cause fear but offence committed in dangerous circumstances Starting Point: 6 weeks custody where the weapon is not a knife. A custodial sentence in excess of 6 months where the weapon is a knife Range: High level community order to Crown Court Example of nature of activity: Weapon used to threaten or cause fear; and offence committed in dangerous circumstances Starting Point: A custodial sentence in excess of 6 months (Crown Court) Range: Crown Court Offence Seriousness (culpability and harm) B Consider the effect of aggravating and mitigating factors (other than those within examples above). Common aggravating and mitigating factors - the following may be particularly relevant but these lists are not exhaustive. Factors indicating higher culpability: Particularly dangerous weapon Specifically planned use of weapon to commit violence, threaten violence or intimidate Offence motivated by hostility towards minority individual or group Offender under influence of drink or drugs Offender operating in group or gang. Factors indicating greater degree of harm: Offence committed at school, hospital or other place where vulnerable persons may be present. ******************** ******************** ******************** ****************** Perhaps a police spokesman would care to offer an opinion............. displayed
  • Score: -1

10:57am Sat 3 May 14

displayed says...

From CAB:
The police must follow certain guidelines when they search a school or someone at a school. These are called the Police and Criminal Evidence Codes of Practice.

A head teacher, or someone else authorised by the head teacher, can search a pupil if they have good reason to believe that the pupil is carrying a knife, blade or other offensive weapon. In addition, They can search the pupil, even if the pupil doesn't agree to be searched, A pupil can be searched either on school premises or somewhere else where the person doing the search is in charge of the pupil, for example, on a school trip. The staff can search their belongings, but can't ask the pupil to remove any clothing other than outer clothing.

If a knife or other weapon is found, it can be taken away from the pupil. It must be handed over to the police as soon as possible.
From CAB: The police must follow certain guidelines when they search a school or someone at a school. These are called the Police and Criminal Evidence Codes of Practice. A head teacher, or someone else authorised by the head teacher, can search a pupil if they have good reason to believe that the pupil is carrying a knife, blade or other offensive weapon. In addition, They can search the pupil, even if the pupil doesn't agree to be searched, A pupil can be searched either on school premises or somewhere else where the person doing the search is in charge of the pupil, for example, on a school trip. The staff can search their belongings, but can't ask the pupil to remove any clothing other than outer clothing. If a knife or other weapon is found, it can be taken away from the pupil. It must be handed over to the police as soon as possible. displayed
  • Score: -1

11:44am Sat 3 May 14

Realist UK says...

displayed wrote:
From CAB: The police must follow certain guidelines when they search a school or someone at a school. These are called the Police and Criminal Evidence Codes of Practice. A head teacher, or someone else authorised by the head teacher, can search a pupil if they have good reason to believe that the pupil is carrying a knife, blade or other offensive weapon. In addition, They can search the pupil, even if the pupil doesn't agree to be searched, A pupil can be searched either on school premises or somewhere else where the person doing the search is in charge of the pupil, for example, on a school trip. The staff can search their belongings, but can't ask the pupil to remove any clothing other than outer clothing. If a knife or other weapon is found, it can be taken away from the pupil. It must be handed over to the police as soon as possible.
This is interesting. I've been made aware that such an incident, whereby a pupil threatened other pupils with a knife, happened in a Gwent Comprehensive. I know the police were not called so assume the school used discretion. However, if a child of mine attended such a school I'd be extremely concerned, as a parent, if it was dealt with without the involvement of the police & local authority.
[quote][p][bold]displayed[/bold] wrote: From CAB: The police must follow certain guidelines when they search a school or someone at a school. These are called the Police and Criminal Evidence Codes of Practice. A head teacher, or someone else authorised by the head teacher, can search a pupil if they have good reason to believe that the pupil is carrying a knife, blade or other offensive weapon. In addition, They can search the pupil, even if the pupil doesn't agree to be searched, A pupil can be searched either on school premises or somewhere else where the person doing the search is in charge of the pupil, for example, on a school trip. The staff can search their belongings, but can't ask the pupil to remove any clothing other than outer clothing. If a knife or other weapon is found, it can be taken away from the pupil. It must be handed over to the police as soon as possible.[/p][/quote]This is interesting. I've been made aware that such an incident, whereby a pupil threatened other pupils with a knife, happened in a Gwent Comprehensive. I know the police were not called so assume the school used discretion. However, if a child of mine attended such a school I'd be extremely concerned, as a parent, if it was dealt with without the involvement of the police & local authority. Realist UK
  • Score: 3

11:58am Sat 3 May 14

Bobevans says...

Realist UK wrote:
displayed wrote:
From CAB: The police must follow certain guidelines when they search a school or someone at a school. These are called the Police and Criminal Evidence Codes of Practice. A head teacher, or someone else authorised by the head teacher, can search a pupil if they have good reason to believe that the pupil is carrying a knife, blade or other offensive weapon. In addition, They can search the pupil, even if the pupil doesn't agree to be searched, A pupil can be searched either on school premises or somewhere else where the person doing the search is in charge of the pupil, for example, on a school trip. The staff can search their belongings, but can't ask the pupil to remove any clothing other than outer clothing. If a knife or other weapon is found, it can be taken away from the pupil. It must be handed over to the police as soon as possible.
This is interesting. I've been made aware that such an incident, whereby a pupil threatened other pupils with a knife, happened in a Gwent Comprehensive. I know the police were not called so assume the school used discretion. However, if a child of mine attended such a school I'd be extremely concerned, as a parent, if it was dealt with without the involvement of the police & local authority.
If the law does not currently require it, it should changed so that if any offensive weapon is found on a pupil then the schools has a legal duty to report it to the police & education authority & social services and the incident has to be formally logged and recorded in the schools records.
[quote][p][bold]Realist UK[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]displayed[/bold] wrote: From CAB: The police must follow certain guidelines when they search a school or someone at a school. These are called the Police and Criminal Evidence Codes of Practice. A head teacher, or someone else authorised by the head teacher, can search a pupil if they have good reason to believe that the pupil is carrying a knife, blade or other offensive weapon. In addition, They can search the pupil, even if the pupil doesn't agree to be searched, A pupil can be searched either on school premises or somewhere else where the person doing the search is in charge of the pupil, for example, on a school trip. The staff can search their belongings, but can't ask the pupil to remove any clothing other than outer clothing. If a knife or other weapon is found, it can be taken away from the pupil. It must be handed over to the police as soon as possible.[/p][/quote]This is interesting. I've been made aware that such an incident, whereby a pupil threatened other pupils with a knife, happened in a Gwent Comprehensive. I know the police were not called so assume the school used discretion. However, if a child of mine attended such a school I'd be extremely concerned, as a parent, if it was dealt with without the involvement of the police & local authority.[/p][/quote]If the law does not currently require it, it should changed so that if any offensive weapon is found on a pupil then the schools has a legal duty to report it to the police & education authority & social services and the incident has to be formally logged and recorded in the schools records. Bobevans
  • Score: 7

12:12pm Sat 3 May 14

Realist UK says...

Bobevans wrote:
Realist UK wrote:
displayed wrote: From CAB: The police must follow certain guidelines when they search a school or someone at a school. These are called the Police and Criminal Evidence Codes of Practice. A head teacher, or someone else authorised by the head teacher, can search a pupil if they have good reason to believe that the pupil is carrying a knife, blade or other offensive weapon. In addition, They can search the pupil, even if the pupil doesn't agree to be searched, A pupil can be searched either on school premises or somewhere else where the person doing the search is in charge of the pupil, for example, on a school trip. The staff can search their belongings, but can't ask the pupil to remove any clothing other than outer clothing. If a knife or other weapon is found, it can be taken away from the pupil. It must be handed over to the police as soon as possible.
This is interesting. I've been made aware that such an incident, whereby a pupil threatened other pupils with a knife, happened in a Gwent Comprehensive. I know the police were not called so assume the school used discretion. However, if a child of mine attended such a school I'd be extremely concerned, as a parent, if it was dealt with without the involvement of the police & local authority.
If the law does not currently require it, it should changed so that if any offensive weapon is found on a pupil then the schools has a legal duty to report it to the police & education authority & social services and the incident has to be formally logged and recorded in the schools records.
This is my question. Do they currently have a duty to report?
[quote][p][bold]Bobevans[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Realist UK[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]displayed[/bold] wrote: From CAB: The police must follow certain guidelines when they search a school or someone at a school. These are called the Police and Criminal Evidence Codes of Practice. A head teacher, or someone else authorised by the head teacher, can search a pupil if they have good reason to believe that the pupil is carrying a knife, blade or other offensive weapon. In addition, They can search the pupil, even if the pupil doesn't agree to be searched, A pupil can be searched either on school premises or somewhere else where the person doing the search is in charge of the pupil, for example, on a school trip. The staff can search their belongings, but can't ask the pupil to remove any clothing other than outer clothing. If a knife or other weapon is found, it can be taken away from the pupil. It must be handed over to the police as soon as possible.[/p][/quote]This is interesting. I've been made aware that such an incident, whereby a pupil threatened other pupils with a knife, happened in a Gwent Comprehensive. I know the police were not called so assume the school used discretion. However, if a child of mine attended such a school I'd be extremely concerned, as a parent, if it was dealt with without the involvement of the police & local authority.[/p][/quote]If the law does not currently require it, it should changed so that if any offensive weapon is found on a pupil then the schools has a legal duty to report it to the police & education authority & social services and the incident has to be formally logged and recorded in the schools records.[/p][/quote]This is my question. Do they currently have a duty to report? Realist UK
  • Score: 1

2:31pm Sat 3 May 14

-trigg- says...

I'm going to assume that these threats went somewhere beyond the usual teenager gripes of "If she gives me one more piece of homework to do this weekend...."
I'm going to assume that these threats went somewhere beyond the usual teenager gripes of "If she gives me one more piece of homework to do this weekend...." -trigg-
  • Score: 1

2:36pm Sat 3 May 14

The Red Claw says...

Bobevans wrote:
displayed wrote:
From the Mail:
"They have since both been released on police bail pending further enquiries.
A decision will be made next week if the girls will be allowed back to school."

So they are free to plot an plan again..........
The daft Head Mistress says there was no risk. That is the most stupid and daft statement ever. There was a plot so there was a risk
If it ever gets to court, the author of that statement may well have already unknowingly booked themselves in to have a chance to explain it as a star witness……..for the defence!
[quote][p][bold]Bobevans[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]displayed[/bold] wrote: From the Mail: "They have since both been released on police bail pending further enquiries. A decision will be made next week if the girls will be allowed back to school." So they are free to plot an plan again..........[/p][/quote]The daft Head Mistress says there was no risk. That is the most stupid and daft statement ever. There was a plot so there was a risk[/p][/quote]If it ever gets to court, the author of that statement may well have already unknowingly booked themselves in to have a chance to explain it as a star witness……..for the defence! The Red Claw
  • Score: 3

2:49pm Sat 3 May 14

Bobevans says...

There is now further information on the BBC Web site. One girl has been arrested on suspicion of threats to kill, possession of a bladed article on school premises and conspiracy to commit murder. The second girl was arrested on suspicion of conspiracy to commit murder.Both have been released on bail while the police continue their investigation

This is clearly a very serious incident and not some silly social network stunt

One has to doubt the judgement of the head in saying that the girls could be allowed back in school next week when enquires are still going on and she does not have any real knowledge of any potential risk. A bladed weapon was involved as well
There is now further information on the BBC Web site. One girl has been arrested on suspicion of threats to kill, possession of a bladed article on school premises and conspiracy to commit murder. The second girl was arrested on suspicion of conspiracy to commit murder.Both have been released on bail while the police continue their investigation This is clearly a very serious incident and not some silly social network stunt One has to doubt the judgement of the head in saying that the girls could be allowed back in school next week when enquires are still going on and she does not have any real knowledge of any potential risk. A bladed weapon was involved as well Bobevans
  • Score: 1

9:14pm Sat 3 May 14

displayed says...

Bobevans wrote:
There is now further information on the BBC Web site. One girl has been arrested on suspicion of threats to kill, possession of a bladed article on school premises and conspiracy to commit murder. The second girl was arrested on suspicion of conspiracy to commit murder.Both have been released on bail while the police continue their investigation

This is clearly a very serious incident and not some silly social network stunt

One has to doubt the judgement of the head in saying that the girls could be allowed back in school next week when enquires are still going on and she does not have any real knowledge of any potential risk. A bladed weapon was involved as well
One wonders how did she get the job as head in the first place, she clearly has no understanding of what constitutes a threat to her school, staff or pupils.
Therefore she should b replaced before someone really gets killed!
[quote][p][bold]Bobevans[/bold] wrote: There is now further information on the BBC Web site. One girl has been arrested on suspicion of threats to kill, possession of a bladed article on school premises and conspiracy to commit murder. The second girl was arrested on suspicion of conspiracy to commit murder.Both have been released on bail while the police continue their investigation This is clearly a very serious incident and not some silly social network stunt One has to doubt the judgement of the head in saying that the girls could be allowed back in school next week when enquires are still going on and she does not have any real knowledge of any potential risk. A bladed weapon was involved as well[/p][/quote]One wonders how did she get the job as head in the first place, she clearly has no understanding of what constitutes a threat to her school, staff or pupils. Therefore she should b replaced before someone really gets killed! displayed
  • Score: -7

12:03am Sun 4 May 14

gingertom says...

When I was young I was taught manners and to respect my elders. If I thought an elder was in the wrong I would discuss it with my parents. If I had tried anything like this my parents would have come down on me like a ton of bricks. Should such children be sent to army boot camps perhaps with the parents as well. Teachers are expected to teach children right from wrong these days and they have not got the time.
When I was young I was taught manners and to respect my elders. If I thought an elder was in the wrong I would discuss it with my parents. If I had tried anything like this my parents would have come down on me like a ton of bricks. Should such children be sent to army boot camps perhaps with the parents as well. Teachers are expected to teach children right from wrong these days and they have not got the time. gingertom
  • Score: 3

6:44pm Sun 4 May 14

displayed says...

Parents are bringing children into the world where they learn to hate and they cannot communicate any other way except using violence!
This will increase until parents take their role seriously an ban social media for under 15s.

Kids kill kids because:
there born to it
they have no choice
its their lifestyle
culture
environment
peer presure
their faith
parents
siblings
uncles
aunts
school
computers
web site
cos its fun
they dont y...................
.........

Just pick a reason!
They will justify it!
Parents are bringing children into the world where they learn to hate and they cannot communicate any other way except using violence! This will increase until parents take their role seriously an ban social media for under 15s. Kids kill kids because: there born to it they have no choice its their lifestyle culture environment peer presure their faith parents siblings uncles aunts school computers web site cos its fun they dont y................... ......... Just pick a reason! They will justify it! displayed
  • Score: 0

4:46pm Mon 5 May 14

displayed says...

http://metro.co.uk/2
014/05/05/police-cal
led-after-schoolboys
-10-spike-teachers-c
offee-with-bleach-li
ke-liquid-4718467

Another group of disgruntled pupils with a grudge!
Yeh, rite!

What did u do at the age of ten.................
.........
http://metro.co.uk/2 014/05/05/police-cal led-after-schoolboys -10-spike-teachers-c offee-with-bleach-li ke-liquid-4718467 Another group of disgruntled pupils with a grudge! Yeh, rite! What did u do at the age of ten................. ......... displayed
  • Score: 0

8:06am Tue 6 May 14

Bobevans says...

I find it strange that a pupil can be suspended fro school for quite minor things but for plotting a murder it is almost welcoming them back within days and in my view without any real knowledge of the risk involved in doing so and that's without the sort of message it sends out
I find it strange that a pupil can be suspended fro school for quite minor things but for plotting a murder it is almost welcoming them back within days and in my view without any real knowledge of the risk involved in doing so and that's without the sort of message it sends out Bobevans
  • Score: 2

8:52am Tue 6 May 14

Mervyn James says...

And not long ago they were putting kids in the same school with loads of asbestos. In the USA they have searches of pupils every day in many schools, metal detectors etc. We don't want to turn schools into prisons but there are few other ways than just preventing them bringing weapons in. As per usual you only need a minority of idiots to ruin it for the rest. The issue is child rights, get RID ! it doesn't work. It's a licence to kill.....
And not long ago they were putting kids in the same school with loads of asbestos. In the USA they have searches of pupils every day in many schools, metal detectors etc. We don't want to turn schools into prisons but there are few other ways than just preventing them bringing weapons in. As per usual you only need a minority of idiots to ruin it for the rest. The issue is child rights, get RID ! it doesn't work. It's a licence to kill..... Mervyn James
  • Score: 1

4:56pm Tue 6 May 14

Bobevans says...

It seems the council have now acted sensibly and have overruled the headmistress and the girls will not be retuning to school this week
It seems the council have now acted sensibly and have overruled the headmistress and the girls will not be retuning to school this week Bobevans
  • Score: 1

6:04pm Tue 6 May 14

Floppy backed says...

Should the teacher be named - not sure I would want my name in the media for something I didnt know was going on! Surely, its not necessary. She must feel very vulnerable and its not doing a lot for the day to day teaching.

No doubt more children under special needs, unable to socialise in the mainstream. Give me strength, first thing social services should be scrutinising the the home life, we were all wild at that age but this is rather extreme. Put money on it disruptive homelife ie s@@t parenting again!
Should the teacher be named - not sure I would want my name in the media for something I didnt know was going on! Surely, its not necessary. She must feel very vulnerable and its not doing a lot for the day to day teaching. No doubt more children under special needs, unable to socialise in the mainstream. Give me strength, first thing social services should be scrutinising the the home life, we were all wild at that age but this is rather extreme. Put money on it disruptive homelife ie s@@t parenting again! Floppy backed
  • Score: 3

6:08pm Tue 6 May 14

displayed says...

Her name has been published in other newspapers.....
It would serve no useful purpose to include it in this rag...........
The miscreants in question have been dealt with, heaven help their next school!
Her name has been published in other newspapers..... It would serve no useful purpose to include it in this rag........... The miscreants in question have been dealt with, heaven help their next school! displayed
  • Score: 0

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