THE NEWSDESK: The slaughter of civilians is a stain on the world

Smoke and sand rise in the air after an Israeli strike, in Gaza City, northern Gaza Strip, Saturday, Aug. 2, 2014. (AP Photo/Hatem Moussa)             (8871032)

Smoke and sand rise in the air after an Israeli strike, in Gaza City, northern Gaza Strip, Saturday, Aug. 2, 2014. (AP Photo/Hatem Moussa) (8871032)

First published in Gwent news
Last updated
by

THIS column allows me the freedom to write about whichever subject I choose - local, national and international.

Often, I choose a local subject - Newport city centre regeneration, the M4 relief road - because that is what is most close to the hearts of our readers.

This week will be different.

Seldom have I heard so much talk on the streets of Gwent about an international subject as I have this week.

What is happening in Gaza is in the thoughts of many of us, it is shocking us to the core, making a number of us lobby our politicians, making us give donations to relief agencies.

For that reason, I make no apologies for writing about it this week. To do anything else would have been crass.

It's easy to feel helpless when we watch the slaughter of children and babies.

The conflict is seemingly unsolvable, entrenched sides with a generational hatred for one another.

I am no apologist for Hamas. Any organisation which thinks more of its own political gain, the lifting of the embargo imposed by Israel in 2007, than the slaughter of innocents makes my stomach turn. And it is clear that Hamas cannot possibly win this conflict, however many rocket attacks it launches on Israel.

It is also clear that Israel has bombed UN-run schools and its shells have hit hospitals full of the already terrified and wounded. The Israeli Defence Force's firepower is overwhelming. And with that overwhelming force should come responsibility.

It says it is doing all it can to avoid civilian targets.

Yet, day after day, civilians are being killed in the bombardment.

Like in Syria and Libya, ordinary civilians are the most vulnerable and it is they who are suffering the most.

The UK's Department for International Development said that since the Israeli offensive began on July 8, 136 schools - some serving as shelters - 24 hospitals and clinics and 25 ambulances have been damaged or destroyed, while eight UN aid workers and at least two Palestinian Red Crescent volunteers have now been reported as killed.

I watched the BBC's Orla Guerin questioning an IDF pilot who was showing her the technology it says it uses to avoid civilian casualties.

She said the thing all of us have been thinking for weeks. Surely, she said to the pilot, the best way to avoid civilian casualties is to stop the bombing.

In nearly four weeks of fighting, more than 1,700 Palestinians, mainly civilians, have been killed as well as 64 Israelis, almost all soldiers. It was revealed today that Hadar Goldin, a 23-year-old infantry lieutenant feared captured in Gaza, was actually killed in battle. Three civilians have been killed on the Israeli side since hostilities began.

Around 250,000 people have been forced to flee their homes since the war began.

In a televised address, Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu suggested troops would reassess operations after completing the demolition of Hamas military tunnels under the border. Security officials said the tunnel mission was winding down.

At the same time, Mr Netanyahu warned the territory's Hamas rulers that they would pay an "intolerable price" if militants continued to fire rockets at Israel and that all options remain on the table.

While some Israeli tanks were seen leaving Gaza, the IDF said it had carried out 180 strikes today.

If there is an opportunity for an end to the fighting, the rest of the world has to do all it can to push for it.

We cannot give in to helplessness.

Now is the time for our government, and that of the United States, to act. They must make it clear that if fighting continues there will be consequences for both sides.

If there is no ceasefire, there must be an arms embargo.

French president Francois Hollande today commemorated the 100th anniversary of the First World War with an appeal to players in the Gaza conflict to put animosities aside - just as France and Germany have done.

Mr Hollande gave an impassioned speech in Vieil Armand in Alsace, marking Germany's declaration of war on France on August 3, 1914. He was joined by German president Joachim Gauck - the first time Germany's head of state has attended the event.

Mr Hollande remembered the 30,000 men killed around Vieil Armand, known in German as Hartmannswillerkopf, but pointed out that France and Germany "who were regarded as hereditary enemies", reconciled.

He appealed to the world to use Franco-German peace as a lesson in peacemaking and "to stop the suffering of the civilian population", in Gaza.

Surely tomorrow, the 100th anniversary of Britain's entry into the First World War, is a salutory lesson to anyone about the cost.

Comments (34)

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2:48pm Sun 3 Aug 14

Paxman's Army says...

I am a Zionist.

It's not easy to say that these days. The "Z" Word has become synonymous with bigotry and ethnic cleansing. And I understand why. I truly do.

I am a Zionist because I believe in the existence of Israel. As almost every Jew like me, I believe it has a right to exist. I remember, when I was very young, my parents and I helping to raise money to plant a sapling in the holy land - a symbol of growth and prosperity.

Yes, I'm a Zionist. But equally I also believe the Palestinian state has a right to exist. I believe there's a place for both nations to live in harmony with one another and its neighbors. I'm an optomist too I suppose.

I'm under no illusion that Israel has committed terrible crimes against humanity. No - not humanity. That's the wrong word. That's too impersonal. Against people. . .against families. . . against innocents and children. No Jew should be proud of that shame. "Our" state is tainted.

On the other hand I'm under no illusion that Hamas is a terrorist organisation. No one in their right mind can think those tunnels, built over many years, were made for anything other than nepharious purposes.

By pointing out how one side is worse than another trivialises the war. Both sides commit evil. Both sides are to blame. Both sides are wrong. And in the middle of this atrocity committed by both sides are innocent families.

I worry that as this conflict intensifies, and people here choose sides and affix blame, that racism and bigotry will flame up. Already we see on these posts anti-Islamic rhetoric. Anti-semitic bigotry is not far behind. It's the same thing really. Consider my fear as you post a response.

Some politicians are calling for the UK's condemnation of Israel. Or Hamas. But that's already happened. And more words from politicians I don't think will do much to stop the bloodshed.

There's no solution we can offer. But that doesn't mean we should be silent. I call on all readers to reach out to neighbors - and put any rhetoric away. Don't call people who support Israel, Nazis. Don't enrage the Muslim community with stupidity. Yes, I'm a Zionist. . .but I would like to say to my Islamic neighbors I condemn rockets and terrorism and attacks and I won't support Israel until it stops. And I won't support a free Palestine until Hamas learns to be a political organisation and not a terrorist group. I don't care who is to blame for any attack. All I care about is that it stops.

I'm all for fighting. If I had to make a stand. . .I stand with the innocents in the middle.
I am a Zionist. It's not easy to say that these days. The "Z" Word has become synonymous with bigotry and ethnic cleansing. And I understand why. I truly do. I am a Zionist because I believe in the existence of Israel. As almost every Jew like me, I believe it has a right to exist. I remember, when I was very young, my parents and I helping to raise money to plant a sapling in the holy land - a symbol of growth and prosperity. Yes, I'm a Zionist. But equally I also believe the Palestinian state has a right to exist. I believe there's a place for both nations to live in harmony with one another and its neighbors. I'm an optomist too I suppose. I'm under no illusion that Israel has committed terrible crimes against humanity. No - not humanity. That's the wrong word. That's too impersonal. Against people. . .against families. . . against innocents and children. No Jew should be proud of that shame. "Our" state is tainted. On the other hand I'm under no illusion that Hamas is a terrorist organisation. No one in their right mind can think those tunnels, built over many years, were made for anything other than nepharious purposes. By pointing out how one side is worse than another trivialises the war. Both sides commit evil. Both sides are to blame. Both sides are wrong. And in the middle of this atrocity committed by both sides are innocent families. I worry that as this conflict intensifies, and people here choose sides and affix blame, that racism and bigotry will flame up. Already we see on these posts anti-Islamic rhetoric. Anti-semitic bigotry is not far behind. It's the same thing really. Consider my fear as you post a response. Some politicians are calling for the UK's condemnation of Israel. Or Hamas. But that's already happened. And more words from politicians I don't think will do much to stop the bloodshed. There's no solution we can offer. But that doesn't mean we should be silent. I call on all readers to reach out to neighbors - and put any rhetoric away. Don't call people who support Israel, Nazis. Don't enrage the Muslim community with stupidity. Yes, I'm a Zionist. . .but I would like to say to my Islamic neighbors I condemn rockets and terrorism and attacks and I won't support Israel until it stops. And I won't support a free Palestine until Hamas learns to be a political organisation and not a terrorist group. I don't care who is to blame for any attack. All I care about is that it stops. I'm all for fighting. If I had to make a stand. . .I stand with the innocents in the middle. Paxman's Army
  • Score: 20

2:49pm Sun 3 Aug 14

Pounce says...

Thousands killed in Nigeria by Terorists...No protests in the UK

Hundreds of thousands killed in Syria by Terrorists..No protests in the Uk

Thousands killed in Yemen,Libya,Somalia,
Paksitan..No protests in the Uk.

Terrorists in their hundreds leave the Uk to carry out the above...No protests in the Uk.

Yet when Israel, fights back agaisnt the very same ideology as that used above in which to kill then its a human rights crime.

Today,the Bishop of Manchester has urged the government to offer asylum to thousands of Christians in northern Iraq. The Royal Navy is being used to evacuate British citizens from Libya. it is plain easy to see where the problem lies. Yet we continue to attack those who are on the front line agaisnt this jidadist threat. Yes it is wrong for women and children to die, in my book 1 is 1 too many. Yet ask yourself this question what is the aim of Hamas. It is the total destruction of Israel and death to all the Jews. What is Israel's aim. Its to live in peace. Something that radical Islam just does simply want to happen.
Thousands killed in Nigeria by Terorists...No protests in the UK Hundreds of thousands killed in Syria by Terrorists..No protests in the Uk Thousands killed in Yemen,Libya,Somalia, Paksitan..No protests in the Uk. Terrorists in their hundreds leave the Uk to carry out the above...No protests in the Uk. Yet when Israel, fights back agaisnt the very same ideology as that used above in which to kill then its a human rights crime. Today,the Bishop of Manchester has urged the government to offer asylum to thousands of Christians in northern Iraq. The Royal Navy is being used to evacuate British citizens from Libya. it is plain easy to see where the problem lies. Yet we continue to attack those who are on the front line agaisnt this jidadist threat. Yes it is wrong for women and children to die, in my book 1 is 1 too many. Yet ask yourself this question what is the aim of Hamas. It is the total destruction of Israel and death to all the Jews. What is Israel's aim. Its to live in peace. Something that radical Islam just does simply want to happen. Pounce
  • Score: 7

3:21pm Sun 3 Aug 14

Katie Re-Registered says...

"I am no apologist for Hamas. Any organisation which thinks more of its own political gain, the lifting of the embargo imposed by Israel in 2007, than the slaughter of innocents makes my stomach turn. And it is clear that Hamas cannot possibly win this conflict, however many rocket attacks it launches on Israel. "

*On that note Maria, please don't continue like the rest of the heterosexist and gender normative mainstream media to systematically erase the plight of LGBTQ Palestinians - who caught between the Hamas law which makes homosexuality punishable by death and the latest round of Israeli bombings - find themselves stuck between a rock and a hard place!
"I am no apologist for Hamas. Any organisation which thinks more of its own political gain, the lifting of the embargo imposed by Israel in 2007, than the slaughter of innocents makes my stomach turn. And it is clear that Hamas cannot possibly win this conflict, however many rocket attacks it launches on Israel. " *On that note Maria, please don't continue like the rest of the heterosexist and gender normative mainstream media to systematically erase the plight of LGBTQ Palestinians - who caught between the Hamas law which makes homosexuality punishable by death and the latest round of Israeli bombings - find themselves stuck between a rock and a hard place! Katie Re-Registered
  • Score: -22

3:48pm Sun 3 Aug 14

Katie Re-Registered says...

Oddly enough though, Maria wrote an editorial only a few weeks' ago praising the allied victory in WW2 against what she termed 'the fascists' - which I presume (although a bit of a misnomer which was rarely used to describe the NSDAP outside the USSR) included Hitler's Germany as well as their specifically fascist allies - Mussolini's Italy. I'd be interested therefore if she has a similar opinion of the allied bombings of cities such as Dresden and other German cities, plus the nuclear incineration of Hiroshima and Nagasaki which killed many thousands of innocent people. Perhaps she could write an article about these next week?
Oddly enough though, Maria wrote an editorial only a few weeks' ago praising the allied victory in WW2 against what she termed 'the fascists' - which I presume (although a bit of a misnomer which was rarely used to describe the NSDAP outside the USSR) included Hitler's Germany as well as their specifically fascist allies - Mussolini's Italy. I'd be interested therefore if she has a similar opinion of the allied bombings of cities such as Dresden and other German cities, plus the nuclear incineration of Hiroshima and Nagasaki which killed many thousands of innocent people. Perhaps she could write an article about these next week? Katie Re-Registered
  • Score: -9

3:59pm Sun 3 Aug 14

Dai Rear says...

Katie. it isn't funny any more, particularly in this context. Please stop it. Hamas cannot win and perhaps this is very eccentric, but at the root of the problem may it not be the Mohammedan belief that life, now, on earth, isn't "real" in some way? That there's some wonderful Euro -_Disney waiting for all the poor people who get killed in a fanciful "next world"?
You don't have to be the ghastly Dawkins to say that this, now, is all the reality we know and to keep on poking with a stick the big grizzly bear of Israel whilst it lays waste your campsite is an incredibly stupid and inhumane thing to do?
Katie. it isn't funny any more, particularly in this context. Please stop it. Hamas cannot win and perhaps this is very eccentric, but at the root of the problem may it not be the Mohammedan belief that life, now, on earth, isn't "real" in some way? That there's some wonderful Euro -_Disney waiting for all the poor people who get killed in a fanciful "next world"? You don't have to be the ghastly Dawkins to say that this, now, is all the reality we know and to keep on poking with a stick the big grizzly bear of Israel whilst it lays waste your campsite is an incredibly stupid and inhumane thing to do? Dai Rear
  • Score: 4

4:56pm Sun 3 Aug 14

Stevenboy says...

Pounce wrote:
Thousands killed in Nigeria by Terorists...No protests in the UK

Hundreds of thousands killed in Syria by Terrorists..No protests in the Uk

Thousands killed in Yemen,Libya,Somalia,

Paksitan..No protests in the Uk.

Terrorists in their hundreds leave the Uk to carry out the above...No protests in the Uk.

Yet when Israel, fights back agaisnt the very same ideology as that used above in which to kill then its a human rights crime.

Today,the Bishop of Manchester has urged the government to offer asylum to thousands of Christians in northern Iraq. The Royal Navy is being used to evacuate British citizens from Libya. it is plain easy to see where the problem lies. Yet we continue to attack those who are on the front line agaisnt this jidadist threat. Yes it is wrong for women and children to die, in my book 1 is 1 too many. Yet ask yourself this question what is the aim of Hamas. It is the total destruction of Israel and death to all the Jews. What is Israel's aim. Its to live in peace. Something that radical Islam just does simply want to happen.
A very persuasive post.
[quote][p][bold]Pounce[/bold] wrote: Thousands killed in Nigeria by Terorists...No protests in the UK Hundreds of thousands killed in Syria by Terrorists..No protests in the Uk Thousands killed in Yemen,Libya,Somalia, Paksitan..No protests in the Uk. Terrorists in their hundreds leave the Uk to carry out the above...No protests in the Uk. Yet when Israel, fights back agaisnt the very same ideology as that used above in which to kill then its a human rights crime. Today,the Bishop of Manchester has urged the government to offer asylum to thousands of Christians in northern Iraq. The Royal Navy is being used to evacuate British citizens from Libya. it is plain easy to see where the problem lies. Yet we continue to attack those who are on the front line agaisnt this jidadist threat. Yes it is wrong for women and children to die, in my book 1 is 1 too many. Yet ask yourself this question what is the aim of Hamas. It is the total destruction of Israel and death to all the Jews. What is Israel's aim. Its to live in peace. Something that radical Islam just does simply want to happen.[/p][/quote]A very persuasive post. Stevenboy
  • Score: 8

5:18pm Sun 3 Aug 14

Katie Re-Registered says...

Stevenboy wrote:
Pounce wrote:
Thousands killed in Nigeria by Terorists...No protests in the UK

Hundreds of thousands killed in Syria by Terrorists..No protests in the Uk

Thousands killed in Yemen,Libya,Somalia,


Paksitan..No protests in the Uk.

Terrorists in their hundreds leave the Uk to carry out the above...No protests in the Uk.

Yet when Israel, fights back agaisnt the very same ideology as that used above in which to kill then its a human rights crime.

Today,the Bishop of Manchester has urged the government to offer asylum to thousands of Christians in northern Iraq. The Royal Navy is being used to evacuate British citizens from Libya. it is plain easy to see where the problem lies. Yet we continue to attack those who are on the front line agaisnt this jidadist threat. Yes it is wrong for women and children to die, in my book 1 is 1 too many. Yet ask yourself this question what is the aim of Hamas. It is the total destruction of Israel and death to all the Jews. What is Israel's aim. Its to live in peace. Something that radical Islam just does simply want to happen.
A very persuasive post.
I think, Stevenboy, what tends to be underestimated is the way that far-right people with neo-Nazi sympathies who have ulterior motives like being anti-Jewish have jumped on the bandwagon and twist legitimate criticism of Israeli government policies into yet another way to bash Jewish. Unfortunately, there A LOT of them amongst the middle class snobs who dominate the media in Britain and most of their hatred of Jewish people is purely an extension of their jealousy that by contrast to them who only get on through nepotism because their wealthy mummies and daddies 'know somebody', members of the Jewish community can get on solely through their own merit, hard work, talent and ingenuity. The infiltration of such calculating elements to the debate should be a source of fury to anyone who seriously wants peace between Palestinians and Israelis.
[quote][p][bold]Stevenboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Pounce[/bold] wrote: Thousands killed in Nigeria by Terorists...No protests in the UK Hundreds of thousands killed in Syria by Terrorists..No protests in the Uk Thousands killed in Yemen,Libya,Somalia, Paksitan..No protests in the Uk. Terrorists in their hundreds leave the Uk to carry out the above...No protests in the Uk. Yet when Israel, fights back agaisnt the very same ideology as that used above in which to kill then its a human rights crime. Today,the Bishop of Manchester has urged the government to offer asylum to thousands of Christians in northern Iraq. The Royal Navy is being used to evacuate British citizens from Libya. it is plain easy to see where the problem lies. Yet we continue to attack those who are on the front line agaisnt this jidadist threat. Yes it is wrong for women and children to die, in my book 1 is 1 too many. Yet ask yourself this question what is the aim of Hamas. It is the total destruction of Israel and death to all the Jews. What is Israel's aim. Its to live in peace. Something that radical Islam just does simply want to happen.[/p][/quote]A very persuasive post.[/p][/quote]I think, Stevenboy, what tends to be underestimated is the way that far-right people with neo-Nazi sympathies who have ulterior motives like being anti-Jewish have jumped on the bandwagon and twist legitimate criticism of Israeli government policies into yet another way to bash Jewish. Unfortunately, there A LOT of them amongst the middle class snobs who dominate the media in Britain and most of their hatred of Jewish people is purely an extension of their jealousy that by contrast to them who only get on through nepotism because their wealthy mummies and daddies 'know somebody', members of the Jewish community can get on solely through their own merit, hard work, talent and ingenuity. The infiltration of such calculating elements to the debate should be a source of fury to anyone who seriously wants peace between Palestinians and Israelis. Katie Re-Registered
  • Score: -11

5:19pm Sun 3 Aug 14

Katie Re-Registered says...

Katie Re-Registered wrote:
Stevenboy wrote:
Pounce wrote:
Thousands killed in Nigeria by Terorists...No protests in the UK

Hundreds of thousands killed in Syria by Terrorists..No protests in the Uk

Thousands killed in Yemen,Libya,Somalia,



Paksitan..No protests in the Uk.

Terrorists in their hundreds leave the Uk to carry out the above...No protests in the Uk.

Yet when Israel, fights back agaisnt the very same ideology as that used above in which to kill then its a human rights crime.

Today,the Bishop of Manchester has urged the government to offer asylum to thousands of Christians in northern Iraq. The Royal Navy is being used to evacuate British citizens from Libya. it is plain easy to see where the problem lies. Yet we continue to attack those who are on the front line agaisnt this jidadist threat. Yes it is wrong for women and children to die, in my book 1 is 1 too many. Yet ask yourself this question what is the aim of Hamas. It is the total destruction of Israel and death to all the Jews. What is Israel's aim. Its to live in peace. Something that radical Islam just does simply want to happen.
A very persuasive post.
I think, Stevenboy, what tends to be underestimated is the way that far-right people with neo-Nazi sympathies who have ulterior motives like being anti-Jewish have jumped on the bandwagon and twist legitimate criticism of Israeli government policies into yet another way to bash Jewish. Unfortunately, there A LOT of them amongst the middle class snobs who dominate the media in Britain and most of their hatred of Jewish people is purely an extension of their jealousy that by contrast to them who only get on through nepotism because their wealthy mummies and daddies 'know somebody', members of the Jewish community can get on solely through their own merit, hard work, talent and ingenuity. The infiltration of such calculating elements to the debate should be a source of fury to anyone who seriously wants peace between Palestinians and Israelis.
Ps. Pardon my English:)
[quote][p][bold]Katie Re-Registered[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stevenboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Pounce[/bold] wrote: Thousands killed in Nigeria by Terorists...No protests in the UK Hundreds of thousands killed in Syria by Terrorists..No protests in the Uk Thousands killed in Yemen,Libya,Somalia, Paksitan..No protests in the Uk. Terrorists in their hundreds leave the Uk to carry out the above...No protests in the Uk. Yet when Israel, fights back agaisnt the very same ideology as that used above in which to kill then its a human rights crime. Today,the Bishop of Manchester has urged the government to offer asylum to thousands of Christians in northern Iraq. The Royal Navy is being used to evacuate British citizens from Libya. it is plain easy to see where the problem lies. Yet we continue to attack those who are on the front line agaisnt this jidadist threat. Yes it is wrong for women and children to die, in my book 1 is 1 too many. Yet ask yourself this question what is the aim of Hamas. It is the total destruction of Israel and death to all the Jews. What is Israel's aim. Its to live in peace. Something that radical Islam just does simply want to happen.[/p][/quote]A very persuasive post.[/p][/quote]I think, Stevenboy, what tends to be underestimated is the way that far-right people with neo-Nazi sympathies who have ulterior motives like being anti-Jewish have jumped on the bandwagon and twist legitimate criticism of Israeli government policies into yet another way to bash Jewish. Unfortunately, there A LOT of them amongst the middle class snobs who dominate the media in Britain and most of their hatred of Jewish people is purely an extension of their jealousy that by contrast to them who only get on through nepotism because their wealthy mummies and daddies 'know somebody', members of the Jewish community can get on solely through their own merit, hard work, talent and ingenuity. The infiltration of such calculating elements to the debate should be a source of fury to anyone who seriously wants peace between Palestinians and Israelis.[/p][/quote]Ps. Pardon my English:) Katie Re-Registered
  • Score: -6

5:28pm Sun 3 Aug 14

foxy3rd says...

As often happens the " British ", (read English), and their allies have been at the very root of this problem by giving Palestine to the Jews , almost as bad was when they created the borders of Iraq with a ruler irrespective of who lived where.
As often happens the " British ", (read English), and their allies have been at the very root of this problem by giving Palestine to the Jews , almost as bad was when they created the borders of Iraq with a ruler irrespective of who lived where. foxy3rd
  • Score: 14

5:28pm Sun 3 Aug 14

Paxman's Army says...

Katie,

Forgive me. I'm Jewish and I don't sense that at all. I've never had the feeling that the "middle class snobs who dominate the media in Britain" are targeting Jews or are in any way anti-semitic. I think rather this war is a difficult subject simply because if anyone takes the slightest side, they are considered anti-Muslim or anti-semitic. It's not the case. Being against Israel's unrelenting shelling of Gaza doesn't make one anti-Jewish. Being against radical Islam and Hamas doesn't make one anti-Muslim. But since we tend to see this conflict in such black and white contrast, none of us can debate it, much less find peaceful solutions.
Katie, Forgive me. I'm Jewish and I don't sense that at all. I've never had the feeling that the "middle class snobs who dominate the media in Britain" are targeting Jews or are in any way anti-semitic. I think rather this war is a difficult subject simply because if anyone takes the slightest side, they are considered anti-Muslim or anti-semitic. It's not the case. Being against Israel's unrelenting shelling of Gaza doesn't make one anti-Jewish. Being against radical Islam and Hamas doesn't make one anti-Muslim. But since we tend to see this conflict in such black and white contrast, none of us can debate it, much less find peaceful solutions. Paxman's Army
  • Score: 16

5:37pm Sun 3 Aug 14

Dai Rear says...

foxy3rd wrote:
As often happens the " British ", (read English), and their allies have been at the very root of this problem by giving Palestine to the Jews , almost as bad was when they created the borders of Iraq with a ruler irrespective of who lived where.
I think you'll find that Scottish and Welsh people played a big part in Empire. But you'd better include the French, hadn't you, for colonising parts of the Middle East and West Africa where Mohammedans are busily engaged in being beastly to each other ("business as usual" I think they call it ) And what about the Spanish? They conquered some places where "the usual" is occurring.
And what about Stalin? He actually lifted the Mohammedan Chechens out of one place and dumped them in another. Oh dear! So much post-colonial angst.
[quote][p][bold]foxy3rd[/bold] wrote: As often happens the " British ", (read English), and their allies have been at the very root of this problem by giving Palestine to the Jews , almost as bad was when they created the borders of Iraq with a ruler irrespective of who lived where.[/p][/quote]I think you'll find that Scottish and Welsh people played a big part in Empire. But you'd better include the French, hadn't you, for colonising parts of the Middle East and West Africa where Mohammedans are busily engaged in being beastly to each other ("business as usual" I think they call it ) And what about the Spanish? They conquered some places where "the usual" is occurring. And what about Stalin? He actually lifted the Mohammedan Chechens out of one place and dumped them in another. Oh dear! So much post-colonial angst. Dai Rear
  • Score: 8

5:49pm Sun 3 Aug 14

Stevenboy says...

Katie Re-Registered wrote:
Oddly enough though, Maria wrote an editorial only a few weeks' ago praising the allied victory in WW2 against what she termed 'the fascists' - which I presume (although a bit of a misnomer which was rarely used to describe the NSDAP outside the USSR) included Hitler's Germany as well as their specifically fascist allies - Mussolini's Italy. I'd be interested therefore if she has a similar opinion of the allied bombings of cities such as Dresden and other German cities, plus the nuclear incineration of Hiroshima and Nagasaki which killed many thousands of innocent people. Perhaps she could write an article about these next week?
Give the revisionist history a break. You have the luxury of never having had to take the decisions agonised over by leaders in WW2. If every second world wartime dilemma had been placed in the hands of armchair pacifist philosophers we'd never have fired a single shot. And you'd be speaking German if not dead from not being 'gendernormative' or whatever the PC term is.
[quote][p][bold]Katie Re-Registered[/bold] wrote: Oddly enough though, Maria wrote an editorial only a few weeks' ago praising the allied victory in WW2 against what she termed 'the fascists' - which I presume (although a bit of a misnomer which was rarely used to describe the NSDAP outside the USSR) included Hitler's Germany as well as their specifically fascist allies - Mussolini's Italy. I'd be interested therefore if she has a similar opinion of the allied bombings of cities such as Dresden and other German cities, plus the nuclear incineration of Hiroshima and Nagasaki which killed many thousands of innocent people. Perhaps she could write an article about these next week?[/p][/quote]Give the revisionist history a break. You have the luxury of never having had to take the decisions agonised over by leaders in WW2. If every second world wartime dilemma had been placed in the hands of armchair pacifist philosophers we'd never have fired a single shot. And you'd be speaking German if not dead from not being 'gendernormative' or whatever the PC term is. Stevenboy
  • Score: 10

6:12pm Sun 3 Aug 14

merlin the silure says...

OK lets have an "editorial" by the Argus on the genocide,brutality and warcrimes of ISIS-have not women been kidnapped and are god knows where? have not Christians been slaughtered and burned alive?have not opposing soldiers been beheaded and worse?
Come on Argus,stop picking on the "easy" targets such as Israel.
Let me make this quite clear,I'm not condonning the Israeli actions in Gazza,just trying to find a middle ground here that most folks understand..
OK lets have an "editorial" by the Argus on the genocide,brutality and warcrimes of ISIS-have not women been kidnapped and are god knows where? have not Christians been slaughtered and burned alive?have not opposing soldiers been beheaded and worse? Come on Argus,stop picking on the "easy" targets such as Israel. Let me make this quite clear,I'm not condonning the Israeli actions in Gazza,just trying to find a middle ground here that most folks understand.. merlin the silure
  • Score: 9

6:17pm Sun 3 Aug 14

Katie Re-Registered says...

One solution could be for the Israelis to offer to buy the land at a very favourable rate from the Palestinians. I'm sure the majority of people in Gaza would jump at the chance of the prospects of a better life elsewhere and the only ones who would be stupid enough not to take up such a generous offer would be the hard core of Hamas bigots whom most of us would want to see eradicated. Israel needs to isolate Hamas and this might prove a profitable strategy.
One solution could be for the Israelis to offer to buy the land at a very favourable rate from the Palestinians. I'm sure the majority of people in Gaza would jump at the chance of the prospects of a better life elsewhere and the only ones who would be stupid enough not to take up such a generous offer would be the hard core of Hamas bigots whom most of us would want to see eradicated. Israel needs to isolate Hamas and this might prove a profitable strategy. Katie Re-Registered
  • Score: -10

6:24pm Sun 3 Aug 14

Katie Re-Registered says...

Dai Rear wrote:
Katie. it isn't funny any more, particularly in this context. Please stop it. Hamas cannot win and perhaps this is very eccentric, but at the root of the problem may it not be the Mohammedan belief that life, now, on earth, isn't "real" in some way? That there's some wonderful Euro -_Disney waiting for all the poor people who get killed in a fanciful "next world"?
You don't have to be the ghastly Dawkins to say that this, now, is all the reality we know and to keep on poking with a stick the big grizzly bear of Israel whilst it lays waste your campsite is an incredibly stupid and inhumane thing to do?
?
[quote][p][bold]Dai Rear[/bold] wrote: Katie. it isn't funny any more, particularly in this context. Please stop it. Hamas cannot win and perhaps this is very eccentric, but at the root of the problem may it not be the Mohammedan belief that life, now, on earth, isn't "real" in some way? That there's some wonderful Euro -_Disney waiting for all the poor people who get killed in a fanciful "next world"? You don't have to be the ghastly Dawkins to say that this, now, is all the reality we know and to keep on poking with a stick the big grizzly bear of Israel whilst it lays waste your campsite is an incredibly stupid and inhumane thing to do?[/p][/quote]? Katie Re-Registered
  • Score: -2

6:57pm Sun 3 Aug 14

merlin the silure says...

Now you may not like this and consider it offensive but here goes-I have friends that are Israeli and friends that are Muslim.
Before they get into any situation that echoes WW2 and the trains of death,the Israelis will never roll over-they would use everything (yes everything) to nullify that.The Muslims somehow do not seem to grasp that-that is NO criticism of my Muslim friends but they do not seeem to appreciate that the Israelis will not go away.Neither will my Muslim pals who feel that the land is theirs.STALEMATE,and more violence
Now you may not like this and consider it offensive but here goes-I have friends that are Israeli and friends that are Muslim. Before they get into any situation that echoes WW2 and the trains of death,the Israelis will never roll over-they would use everything (yes everything) to nullify that.The Muslims somehow do not seem to grasp that-that is NO criticism of my Muslim friends but they do not seeem to appreciate that the Israelis will not go away.Neither will my Muslim pals who feel that the land is theirs.STALEMATE,and more violence merlin the silure
  • Score: 3

7:28pm Sun 3 Aug 14

Dai Rear says...

Katie Re-Registered wrote:
Dai Rear wrote:
Katie. it isn't funny any more, particularly in this context. Please stop it. Hamas cannot win and perhaps this is very eccentric, but at the root of the problem may it not be the Mohammedan belief that life, now, on earth, isn't "real" in some way? That there's some wonderful Euro -_Disney waiting for all the poor people who get killed in a fanciful "next world"?
You don't have to be the ghastly Dawkins to say that this, now, is all the reality we know and to keep on poking with a stick the big grizzly bear of Israel whilst it lays waste your campsite is an incredibly stupid and inhumane thing to do?
?
First 2 sentences addressed to you. The rest not
[quote][p][bold]Katie Re-Registered[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dai Rear[/bold] wrote: Katie. it isn't funny any more, particularly in this context. Please stop it. Hamas cannot win and perhaps this is very eccentric, but at the root of the problem may it not be the Mohammedan belief that life, now, on earth, isn't "real" in some way? That there's some wonderful Euro -_Disney waiting for all the poor people who get killed in a fanciful "next world"? You don't have to be the ghastly Dawkins to say that this, now, is all the reality we know and to keep on poking with a stick the big grizzly bear of Israel whilst it lays waste your campsite is an incredibly stupid and inhumane thing to do?[/p][/quote]?[/p][/quote]First 2 sentences addressed to you. The rest not Dai Rear
  • Score: -1

12:26am Mon 4 Aug 14

mocyoung says...

Zionists are taught from an early age they have a divine right to the land between the Med and the Jordan.

I was taught from an early age that the best thing to do to when two children are squabbling is to ignore them.

If the Jews and the Muslims want to kill each other over some 2000 year old piece of parchment and their invisible sky-friends, I say let them get on with it.
Zionists are taught from an early age they have a divine right to the land between the Med and the Jordan. I was taught from an early age that the best thing to do to when two children are squabbling is to ignore them. If the Jews and the Muslims want to kill each other over some 2000 year old piece of parchment and their invisible sky-friends, I say let them get on with it. mocyoung
  • Score: 1

12:45am Mon 4 Aug 14

Paxman's Army says...

Mo. . if it was only that easy I'd agree. But alas. . .the war has nothing to do with religion. It has to do with power and control.

And no. .I was not taught at an early age I had a divine right to the land.
Mo. . if it was only that easy I'd agree. But alas. . .the war has nothing to do with religion. It has to do with power and control. And no. .I was not taught at an early age I had a divine right to the land. Paxman's Army
  • Score: 2

12:47am Mon 4 Aug 14

Paxman's Army says...

And to ignore the misery of so many people is not in mankind's best interest.
And to ignore the misery of so many people is not in mankind's best interest. Paxman's Army
  • Score: 2

7:05am Mon 4 Aug 14

Dolieboy says...

Yes, the loss of civilian life in Gaza is tragic. This is the fault of Hamas not the IDF. Most of us know that when an area is designated as safe, Hamas see it as a perfect place from which to fire mortars or rockets nearby, endangering the civilian population.

We have seen 3 cases of rockets stored in UNWRA schools.

We all know that Hamas use ambulances to transport their fighters. Mosques and schools are used as firing points or storage of weapons.

If Hamas had invested the money they spent on tunnels etc on the infrastructure such as hospitals and schools etc Gaza would be a much better place.

All this could end so easily, but even now, with Gaza being devastated, Hamas continue their terrorist activities and firing of rockets into Israel.

It reinforces the saying that the IDF care more about the people of Gaza than Hamas.
Yes, the loss of civilian life in Gaza is tragic. This is the fault of Hamas not the IDF. Most of us know that when an area is designated as safe, Hamas see it as a perfect place from which to fire mortars or rockets nearby, endangering the civilian population. We have seen 3 cases of rockets stored in UNWRA schools. We all know that Hamas use ambulances to transport their fighters. Mosques and schools are used as firing points or storage of weapons. If Hamas had invested the money they spent on tunnels etc on the infrastructure such as hospitals and schools etc Gaza would be a much better place. All this could end so easily, but even now, with Gaza being devastated, Hamas continue their terrorist activities and firing of rockets into Israel. It reinforces the saying that the IDF care more about the people of Gaza than Hamas. Dolieboy
  • Score: 2

8:05am Mon 4 Aug 14

Katie Re-Registered says...

Paxman's Army wrote:
Katie,

Forgive me. I'm Jewish and I don't sense that at all. I've never had the feeling that the "middle class snobs who dominate the media in Britain" are targeting Jews or are in any way anti-semitic. I think rather this war is a difficult subject simply because if anyone takes the slightest side, they are considered anti-Muslim or anti-semitic. It's not the case. Being against Israel's unrelenting shelling of Gaza doesn't make one anti-Jewish. Being against radical Islam and Hamas doesn't make one anti-Muslim. But since we tend to see this conflict in such black and white contrast, none of us can debate it, much less find peaceful solutions.
Whilst I totally agree that the majority of legitimate criticism of the actions of the Israeli government are in no way anti-semitic, it would be somewhat disingenuous to assume that Neo-Nazi groups are not attempting to capitalize on what's happening in Gaza at the moment.

Indeed, the Community Service Trust has reported that there were 130 recorded anti-semitic attacks in July alone (the second highest on record). We can either confront it or, like the German Jewish community of the early 1930s, stick our heads in the sand hoping that it will go away, whilst reassuring ourselves that we are fully assimilated and that our own country is also far too 'civilized' for pogroms and persecution to happen here.

One only has to google 'Israeli-Palestine Conflict' to find a whole array of websites that may begin with legitimate condemnation of Israeli policies but will very often trail off into outright holocaust revisionism and anti-semitic conspiracy theories.

*In fact, there was a post by a commenter on these threads recently who used this issue to promote the idea that the USA wouldn't do anything against Israel because "the Jewish" (sic) control Wall Street and the President of the United States. When I used the button to report this to the editor of the SWA as I felt it violated their own terms and conditions, not only was no action taken and it is still up on there but I was not even accorded the courtesy of a reply. I respectfully reserve the right to draw my own conclusions from this.
[quote][p][bold]Paxman's Army[/bold] wrote: Katie, Forgive me. I'm Jewish and I don't sense that at all. I've never had the feeling that the "middle class snobs who dominate the media in Britain" are targeting Jews or are in any way anti-semitic. I think rather this war is a difficult subject simply because if anyone takes the slightest side, they are considered anti-Muslim or anti-semitic. It's not the case. Being against Israel's unrelenting shelling of Gaza doesn't make one anti-Jewish. Being against radical Islam and Hamas doesn't make one anti-Muslim. But since we tend to see this conflict in such black and white contrast, none of us can debate it, much less find peaceful solutions.[/p][/quote]Whilst I totally agree that the majority of legitimate criticism of the actions of the Israeli government are in no way anti-semitic, it would be somewhat disingenuous to assume that Neo-Nazi groups are not attempting to capitalize on what's happening in Gaza at the moment. Indeed, the Community Service Trust has reported that there were 130 recorded anti-semitic attacks in July alone (the second highest on record). We can either confront it or, like the German Jewish community of the early 1930s, stick our heads in the sand hoping that it will go away, whilst reassuring ourselves that we are fully assimilated and that our own country is also far too 'civilized' for pogroms and persecution to happen here. One only has to google 'Israeli-Palestine Conflict' to find a whole array of websites that may begin with legitimate condemnation of Israeli policies but will very often trail off into outright holocaust revisionism and anti-semitic conspiracy theories. *In fact, there was a post by a commenter on these threads recently who used this issue to promote the idea that the USA wouldn't do anything against Israel because "the Jewish" (sic) control Wall Street and the President of the United States. When I used the button to report this to the editor of the SWA as I felt it violated their own terms and conditions, not only was no action taken and it is still up on there but I was not even accorded the courtesy of a reply. I respectfully reserve the right to draw my own conclusions from this. Katie Re-Registered
  • Score: -1

8:30am Mon 4 Aug 14

foxy3rd says...

Dai Rear wrote:
foxy3rd wrote:
As often happens the " British ", (read English), and their allies have been at the very root of this problem by giving Palestine to the Jews , almost as bad was when they created the borders of Iraq with a ruler irrespective of who lived where.
I think you'll find that Scottish and Welsh people played a big part in Empire. But you'd better include the French, hadn't you, for colonising parts of the Middle East and West Africa where Mohammedans are busily engaged in being beastly to each other ("business as usual" I think they call it ) And what about the Spanish? They conquered some places where "the usual" is occurring.
And what about Stalin? He actually lifted the Mohammedan Chechens out of one place and dumped them in another. Oh dear! So much post-colonial angst.
I did say the British AND their allies , the English because they always make the Laws/ decisions by their 10x voting power in parliament .Yet some of them still cry for devolution!
[quote][p][bold]Dai Rear[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]foxy3rd[/bold] wrote: As often happens the " British ", (read English), and their allies have been at the very root of this problem by giving Palestine to the Jews , almost as bad was when they created the borders of Iraq with a ruler irrespective of who lived where.[/p][/quote]I think you'll find that Scottish and Welsh people played a big part in Empire. But you'd better include the French, hadn't you, for colonising parts of the Middle East and West Africa where Mohammedans are busily engaged in being beastly to each other ("business as usual" I think they call it ) And what about the Spanish? They conquered some places where "the usual" is occurring. And what about Stalin? He actually lifted the Mohammedan Chechens out of one place and dumped them in another. Oh dear! So much post-colonial angst.[/p][/quote]I did say the British AND their allies , the English because they always make the Laws/ decisions by their 10x voting power in parliament .Yet some of them still cry for devolution! foxy3rd
  • Score: 1

8:37am Mon 4 Aug 14

Katie Re-Registered says...

foxy3rd wrote:
As often happens the " British ", (read English), and their allies have been at the very root of this problem by giving Palestine to the Jews , almost as bad was when they created the borders of Iraq with a ruler irrespective of who lived where.
Curiously enough foxy, the very first Zionist was a Corsican atheist called Napoleon Bonaparte whom in 1799 (whilst a French revolutionary army occupied it) offered to re-establish Israel as a homeland for the Jewish people in return for the support of the European Jewish community.
[quote][p][bold]foxy3rd[/bold] wrote: As often happens the " British ", (read English), and their allies have been at the very root of this problem by giving Palestine to the Jews , almost as bad was when they created the borders of Iraq with a ruler irrespective of who lived where.[/p][/quote]Curiously enough foxy, the very first Zionist was a Corsican atheist called Napoleon Bonaparte whom in 1799 (whilst a French revolutionary army occupied it) offered to re-establish Israel as a homeland for the Jewish people in return for the support of the European Jewish community. Katie Re-Registered
  • Score: 1

10:33am Mon 4 Aug 14

Good Job No Kids says...

Katie Re-Registered wrote:
"I am no apologist for Hamas. Any organisation which thinks more of its own political gain, the lifting of the embargo imposed by Israel in 2007, than the slaughter of innocents makes my stomach turn. And it is clear that Hamas cannot possibly win this conflict, however many rocket attacks it launches on Israel. "

*On that note Maria, please don't continue like the rest of the heterosexist and gender normative mainstream media to systematically erase the plight of LGBTQ Palestinians - who caught between the Hamas law which makes homosexuality punishable by death and the latest round of Israeli bombings - find themselves stuck between a rock and a hard place!
Don't you mean between a Rocket and a hard place?
[quote][p][bold]Katie Re-Registered[/bold] wrote: "I am no apologist for Hamas. Any organisation which thinks more of its own political gain, the lifting of the embargo imposed by Israel in 2007, than the slaughter of innocents makes my stomach turn. And it is clear that Hamas cannot possibly win this conflict, however many rocket attacks it launches on Israel. " *On that note Maria, please don't continue like the rest of the heterosexist and gender normative mainstream media to systematically erase the plight of LGBTQ Palestinians - who caught between the Hamas law which makes homosexuality punishable by death and the latest round of Israeli bombings - find themselves stuck between a rock and a hard place![/p][/quote]Don't you mean between a Rocket and a hard place? Good Job No Kids
  • Score: 3

8:27pm Mon 4 Aug 14

foxy3rd says...

Katie Re-Registered wrote:
foxy3rd wrote:
As often happens the " British ", (read English), and their allies have been at the very root of this problem by giving Palestine to the Jews , almost as bad was when they created the borders of Iraq with a ruler irrespective of who lived where.
Curiously enough foxy, the very first Zionist was a Corsican atheist called Napoleon Bonaparte whom in 1799 (whilst a French revolutionary army occupied it) offered to re-establish Israel as a homeland for the Jewish people in return for the support of the European Jewish community.
They are all dictatorial Kate , they do everything for.their own benefit , regardless of the human cost .
[quote][p][bold]Katie Re-Registered[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]foxy3rd[/bold] wrote: As often happens the " British ", (read English), and their allies have been at the very root of this problem by giving Palestine to the Jews , almost as bad was when they created the borders of Iraq with a ruler irrespective of who lived where.[/p][/quote]Curiously enough foxy, the very first Zionist was a Corsican atheist called Napoleon Bonaparte whom in 1799 (whilst a French revolutionary army occupied it) offered to re-establish Israel as a homeland for the Jewish people in return for the support of the European Jewish community.[/p][/quote]They are all dictatorial Kate , they do everything for.their own benefit , regardless of the human cost . foxy3rd
  • Score: 0

10:52am Tue 5 Aug 14

welshmen says...

Islam, slaughter is their business, killing to rule the world, yet still trying to be friends with everyone while doing the dirty deed, the young are taught not to make friends with non-believers, friend them only to further Islam, lie, deceit, all in their teachings in their Qu'ran, Islam first, not the Country that supports them or the host people, it's their Religion that drives them,they march against Gaza where Israeli's IDF are killing hundreds of Muslims, but don't march against the ISSI in Iraq who have killed thousands and will continue to do this, 170,000 in Syria with out a single protest from the Ummah, yet chuck a brick or a can of paint at a Mosque and there's uproar, Islam is not for Democracy or our Country, Islam hasn't and never will change to accept our Culture our Laws our way of life, when's there's enough of them we are History, and to those who think they are friends with Muslims, your like the man feeding crocodiles, hoping it will eat you last....

For everlasting peace in Gaza, it' has to be a two state answer, the powers that arm these pair of Warring factions need to lay down the Law, the only way is a two state, Palestine and Israel....
Islam, slaughter is their business, killing to rule the world, yet still trying to be friends with everyone while doing the dirty deed, the young are taught not to make friends with non-believers, friend them only to further Islam, lie, deceit, all in their teachings in their Qu'ran, Islam first, not the Country that supports them or the host people, it's their Religion that drives them,they march against Gaza where Israeli's IDF are killing hundreds of Muslims, but don't march against the ISSI in Iraq who have killed thousands and will continue to do this, 170,000 in Syria with out a single protest from the Ummah, yet chuck a brick or a can of paint at a Mosque and there's uproar, Islam is not for Democracy or our Country, Islam hasn't and never will change to accept our Culture our Laws our way of life, when's there's enough of them we are History, and to those who think they are friends with Muslims, your like the man feeding crocodiles, hoping it will eat you last.... For everlasting peace in Gaza, it' has to be a two state answer, the powers that arm these pair of Warring factions need to lay down the Law, the only way is a two state, Palestine and Israel.... welshmen
  • Score: 5

11:43am Tue 5 Aug 14

Ceffyl says...

Katie Re-Registered wrote:
One solution could be for the Israelis to offer to buy the land at a very favourable rate from the Palestinians. I'm sure the majority of people in Gaza would jump at the chance of the prospects of a better life elsewhere and the only ones who would be stupid enough not to take up such a generous offer would be the hard core of Hamas bigots whom most of us would want to see eradicated. Israel needs to isolate Hamas and this might prove a profitable strategy.
I'm staggered by this. The people of Gaza don't want to leave, they want it to be free, so they can live as normal, dignified human beings, as proud Palestinians. The idea that they can be bought off is beyond patronising.

Gazans want freedom, not money.
[quote][p][bold]Katie Re-Registered[/bold] wrote: One solution could be for the Israelis to offer to buy the land at a very favourable rate from the Palestinians. I'm sure the majority of people in Gaza would jump at the chance of the prospects of a better life elsewhere and the only ones who would be stupid enough not to take up such a generous offer would be the hard core of Hamas bigots whom most of us would want to see eradicated. Israel needs to isolate Hamas and this might prove a profitable strategy.[/p][/quote]I'm staggered by this. The people of Gaza don't want to leave, they want it to be free, so they can live as normal, dignified human beings, as proud Palestinians. The idea that they can be bought off is beyond patronising. Gazans want freedom, not money. Ceffyl
  • Score: 1

11:46am Tue 5 Aug 14

Dai Rear says...

"Gazans want freedom, not money."
To achieve that, they'd have to get rid of parasitic Hamas. I hope that will happen, but fear it won't.
"Gazans want freedom, not money." To achieve that, they'd have to get rid of parasitic Hamas. I hope that will happen, but fear it won't. Dai Rear
  • Score: 4

5:24pm Wed 6 Aug 14

welshmen says...

If Galatians want freedom, to do as they please, to worship, free speech, then all they have to do is join 1.5 million Arabs in Israel, because Hamas doesn't do Democracy....
If Galatians want freedom, to do as they please, to worship, free speech, then all they have to do is join 1.5 million Arabs in Israel, because Hamas doesn't do Democracy.... welshmen
  • Score: 2

5:37pm Wed 6 Aug 14

displayed says...

"THE NEWSDESK: The slaughter of civilians is a stain on the world"

It happens all over the world, not just these 2 countries in this report.
No one batted an eyelid when Hamas (which means and stands for violence) continuously bombarded Israel with rockets from houses schools, hospitals, domestic dwellings!

Now because Isra-el is fighting back after being passive for so long, the goverments including this one (who have made a rite mess of protocol, diplomatic immunity and supply an demand) to allow these insurgents (loosely based in Gaza) to wreak havoc, as they rain down their deadly missles cos they think it belongs to them) are up in arms!

Yep, it sure is a stain, lets put our own house in order before we start to cast dispersions on the defence that Israel has now mounted against these subterranean miscreants who have nothing but hate in their hearts!

There are no winners or losers in war, H a m a s started it, Israel will finish IT!
"THE NEWSDESK: The slaughter of civilians is a stain on the world" It happens all over the world, not just these 2 countries in this report. No one batted an eyelid when Hamas (which means and stands for violence) continuously bombarded Israel with rockets from houses schools, hospitals, domestic dwellings! Now because Isra-el is fighting back after being passive for so long, the goverments including this one (who have made a rite mess of protocol, diplomatic immunity and supply an demand) to allow these insurgents (loosely based in Gaza) to wreak havoc, as they rain down their deadly missles cos they think it belongs to them) are up in arms! Yep, it sure is a stain, lets put our own house in order before we start to cast dispersions on the defence that Israel has now mounted against these subterranean miscreants who have nothing but hate in their hearts! There are no winners or losers in war, H a m a s started it, Israel will finish IT! displayed
  • Score: 1

10:01pm Wed 6 Aug 14

Katie Re-Registered says...

"I watched the BBC's Orla Guerin questioning an IDF pilot who was showing her the technology it says it uses to avoid civilian casualties."

Kind of peculiar then, that Orla Guerin rails against Israeli imperialism yet grovelled for her MBE (Member of the British Empire) award, Maria. But then, I guess that unlike 'Johnny Foreigner' the 'British Empire' never bombed anyone, eh Maria?;)
"I watched the BBC's Orla Guerin questioning an IDF pilot who was showing her the technology it says it uses to avoid civilian casualties." Kind of peculiar then, that Orla Guerin rails against Israeli imperialism yet grovelled for her MBE (Member of the British Empire) award, Maria. But then, I guess that unlike 'Johnny Foreigner' the 'British Empire' never bombed anyone, eh Maria?;) Katie Re-Registered
  • Score: 2

5:19pm Thu 7 Aug 14

Super Shinobi says...

Western intellectuals, law makers and journalists may never understand this issue that is making an ethnic cleansing of the Middle East and Africa, while they refuse to acknowledge that it's about ethnic superiority, religious bigotry, and fear of assimilation that has been driving it since it's inception.

The lack of demonstrations over the much larger and more horrific mass genocide of other ethnicities and cultures in Syria, Iraq, CAR et al, only make sense if this is the case. Why the western media cannot know a group by it's fruits is reckless at best and dangerous cowardice at worst.

It isn't a secret that the actions of the groups the western media condemns such as, Isis, Hezbollah, Al Shabab, Boko Haram, Al Qaeda, Taliban, Hamas, and so on, all have their roots in Islamic doctrine, and in almost all cases are born from countries with their constitutions built on Islamic theocracy.

It's some massive cognitive disonance for the western intellectuals and media not to recognise that people who are strongly against assimilation and pro ethnic supremacy are the same people who go off joining theses groups from all over the globe. Not because of nationalism, not because they dream of democracy, but because they agree and believe in ethno religious supremacy.

While the west claims to condemn jihad and theocracy, whilst claiming not to offend Islam and Muslims, the 100's of thousands of demonstrators across Europe refute that that non sequitur. It doesn't matter what they say, it only matters what is true on the ground, and what people believe.

No civilisation in history, on the face of the planet, has accepted gladly an errosion of their culture beliefs and values. Not with ideology, not with government coersion, not with the consent of neighbouring tribes, and not without consent.

It always, always ends in bloodshed and ongoing fueds. The Western media and politicians had better wake up to this truth and pull their heads out.
Western intellectuals, law makers and journalists may never understand this issue that is making an ethnic cleansing of the Middle East and Africa, while they refuse to acknowledge that it's about ethnic superiority, religious bigotry, and fear of assimilation that has been driving it since it's inception. The lack of demonstrations over the much larger and more horrific mass genocide of other ethnicities and cultures in Syria, Iraq, CAR et al, only make sense if this is the case. Why the western media cannot know a group by it's fruits is reckless at best and dangerous cowardice at worst. It isn't a secret that the actions of the groups the western media condemns such as, Isis, Hezbollah, Al Shabab, Boko Haram, Al Qaeda, Taliban, Hamas, and so on, all have their roots in Islamic doctrine, and in almost all cases are born from countries with their constitutions built on Islamic theocracy. It's some massive cognitive disonance for the western intellectuals and media not to recognise that people who are strongly against assimilation and pro ethnic supremacy are the same people who go off joining theses groups from all over the globe. Not because of nationalism, not because they dream of democracy, but because they agree and believe in ethno religious supremacy. While the west claims to condemn jihad and theocracy, whilst claiming not to offend Islam and Muslims, the 100's of thousands of demonstrators across Europe refute that that non sequitur. It doesn't matter what they say, it only matters what is true on the ground, and what people believe. No civilisation in history, on the face of the planet, has accepted gladly an errosion of their culture beliefs and values. Not with ideology, not with government coersion, not with the consent of neighbouring tribes, and not without consent. It always, always ends in bloodshed and ongoing fueds. The Western media and politicians had better wake up to this truth and pull their heads out. Super Shinobi
  • Score: 1

8:09am Fri 8 Aug 14

merlin the silure says...

Come on Maria-how about a comment on how ISIS are driving Iraq's christian minority from their homes and cities under threat of execution as they consider them infidels.
Or perhaps you dont want to offend our muslim communities.
Come on Maria-how about a comment on how ISIS are driving Iraq's christian minority from their homes and cities under threat of execution as they consider them infidels. Or perhaps you dont want to offend our muslim communities. merlin the silure
  • Score: 2

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