Pontypool RFC facing the end as club is handed £400,000 courts bill

9:40am Wednesday 18th July 2012 in Gwent news

FIELD OF DREAMS: Pontypool Park FIELD OF DREAMS: Pontypool Park

PONTYPOOL RFC could go into liquidation after being slapped with a £400,000 legal bill yesterday after losing its High Court bid for reinstatement to the Premiership.

Sources inside the club said it faced liquidation or of trying to come to an arrangement to pay the massive costs back over 25 years.

The legal bill is double the club’s annual running costs.

Club directors were holding a crisis meeting last night. The club has fought valiantly for months against the Welsh Rugby Union’s decision to drop it from a newly constituted 12-team top division.

But yesterday, a senior judge said it would have been better for the club to have accepted an offer from the Union to allow it to drop its case weeks ago.

The offer would have meant Pontypool, who were champions of Wales five times between 1972 and 1988, accepted it had to play in the championship, but would not have had to pay the legal bills run up by the union.

Sir Raymond Jack said: “Given the outcome of the action, it can now be said that Pontypool should have accepted the WRU’s offer of May 28 to drop hands,”

WRU lawyers estimated the costs of the case at about £400,000, with approximately £250,000 run up by the union, which was represented in court by a top QC.

Prior to last month’s hearing, Pontypool’s backers had to give an assurance that they would be able to pay the union’s costs if the judge ruled against the club.

In a statement, the WRU said: "In making his decision the Judge recognised that Pontypool had decided to commence high court litigation as the means for resolving its claim. In defending the claim, the WRU has sought to protect its position on costs, with the court holding that the WRU has a duty to protect both itself and Welsh rugby."

 

 

Bobby Windsor: It is unbelievable

PONTYPOOL and Wales legend Bobby Windsor said: “I am just astounded. It is unbelievable. I am dumbstruck.”

Windsor, who was capped 28 times by Wales and five times for the British and Irish Lions, made a call for a breakdown of the legal costs and where the money was going.

He said: “Let’s have a look at the invoice for this £400,000 and see where it’s going.”

Lynne Neagle AM said: “I’m shocked and appalled at this latest development. It shows how far the WRU are now removed from community rugby and clubs like Pontypool who were, after all, one of the union’s founding members.

“This will come as a body blow for friends and supporters of the club, who were only just coming to terms with the fact that Pontypool will not be playing Premiership rugby next season.

“I really hope that the WRU see sense, and reverse this latest move. At the end of the day clubs like Pontypool are the lifeblood of Welsh rugby, the WRU should be doing everything they can to support them, not seeking to destroy them.”

Comments(31)

Newport Dave says...
11:15am Wed 18 Jul 12

My guess is that the £400k figure includes Pontypool's costs as well, so before everyone goes asking how the Union ran up a £400k bill, let's check the facts first.

I didn't realise there was a get-out option offered back in May which wouldn't have cost Pooler a penny.

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mrh35 says...
12:07pm Wed 18 Jul 12

how ironic years ago on 2 occasions the wru helped Llanelli who had wasted money and at the same time may i add refused to help ebbw vale mmm is it a gwent thing I wonder?
I even remember cardiff in the bottom 2 and the league restructured so they didnt get relelgated basicly its a joke

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Robert Shillabeer says...
1:02pm Wed 18 Jul 12

The news is not that good for Welsh rugby. A club with Pontypool's history it would be very sad if they went to the wall over this, but feelings ran high and both sides don't come out of this well. Pontypool can surly obtain a loan spread over twenty years to pay this money off over time. They may even come to an arrangement with the WRU to pay the bill off over time. Hopefully it wont come to the club going into liquidation and the club will go on to become a future Premiership club again through the promotion avenue. There is also some hope of qualifying because Carmarthen Quins don't yet have the required standard, but that is a very weak hope.

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nolongergullible says...
2:46pm Wed 18 Jul 12

Reading the report it appears that the 250K owed to the WRU is assured leaving 150K for Pontypool to find.
Did no one seek advice about the consequences if the action was lost? This looks like a self inflicted wound by the pontypool committee.

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Cwmderi says...
7:53pm Wed 18 Jul 12

Sorry Mr Gullible
The wound was caused by the 'Establishment' of the WRU stabbing Pontypool in the back and then picking their pockets to pay for the injuries inflicted by Roger Lewis and his Cardiff based cronies.
If the WRU were so certain of winning their case, why did they pump up their staggering legal costs.
I agree with Bobby, this is an unbelievable situation and is possibly the blackest day in the history of one of the proudest clubs in Wales.
I would also beg the question, where have the WRU District Representatives been during this fiasco?
Unless the WRU are prepared to do the right thing and meet their own legal costs, then I fear for the future of Pontypool. So come on WRU, play up and play the game and don't put the boot in when your opponent is on the floor.

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troggno22 says...
9:34pm Wed 18 Jul 12

all 14 premier clubs voted to reduce and ring fence for two years this division the vote was 10 for 4 against ?

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troggno22 says...
9:45pm Wed 18 Jul 12

all 14 premier clubs voted to reduce and ring fence for two years a 10 team premiership the vote was 10 for 4 against ?

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no1poolerfan says...
9:53pm Wed 18 Jul 12

The clubs voted for a 10 team League, not a 12 team League. It should have gone back to the Clubs for any increase, not the WRU decide on their own. The Clubs need to get some power back over the WRU otherwise they will ride roughshod over the Clubs if they get away with this. As to the local WRU reps, they ought to hang their heads in shame for not looking after one of their own clubs. And to think the vice chairman of the WRU is a local rep. Disgraceful behaviour by him and others!!!

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troggno22 says...
10:25pm Wed 18 Jul 12

no1poolerfan moving goalposts springs to mind ?

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Dai the Milk says...
10:31pm Wed 18 Jul 12

troggno22 wrote:
all 14 premier clubs voted to reduce and ring fence for two years a 10 team premiership the vote was 10 for 4 against ?
Trog,

Guess which 10 voted for? Yep.......the ones assured of a place in the league by the WRU. Hmmmmmmmmm. Democracy in action.

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Robert Shillabeer says...
10:41pm Wed 18 Jul 12

Yes no1poolerfan you do seem to be changing the rules of this debate as it goes along simple because you are losing it. Pontypool will not go to the wall hopefully as long as they can keep thier support and they must now simply get on and win games. The better they perform the more robust thier original argument holds. Hopefully we will now see clubs like Ebbw Vale, Pontypool, Newbridge competing for the same title and that will be interesting.

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troggno22 says...
10:48pm Wed 18 Jul 12

the vote went for a 10 team premiership "democratic vote"?

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troggno22 says...
10:56pm Wed 18 Jul 12

robert shillabeer when a vote is cast it must be honoured its called democracy its used by most civilised nations?

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troggno22 says...
11:03pm Wed 18 Jul 12

10 teams is not 12 teams?

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no1poolerfan says...
11:07pm Wed 18 Jul 12

I have not moved the goalposts, the WRU did that!!!

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Robert Shillabeer says...
11:08pm Wed 18 Jul 12

If you want to debate. How voting works go ahead, we currently have a Goverment that no one actually voted for, but there you go. The original vote was to reduce the Premiership to ten teams, Pontypool were not included in those ten. There was a serious misbalance in the new Premiership as the Scarlets and Ospreys only had two in thier Regions and they put the case forward for three which got support and the revised Premiership went from ten to twelve sides making three in each region, level playing field comes to mind. Given the choice perhaps Pontypool would have got the place above Bedwas, whose ground in my opinion is far less capable of attracting good crowds that Pontypool's that however would have given Gwent four Premiership sides to two for each of the west Wales Regions.

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troggno22 says...
11:37pm Wed 18 Jul 12

debate i dont do gov politics liars and thieves come to mind,ospreys region swansea, neath, aberavon. scarlets,llandovery,
llanelli. blues ,cardiff,pontypridd.
dragons,bedwas,cross
keys,newport. this was the VOTE :SO CALLED CRITERIA:

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corpardguy says...
11:39pm Wed 18 Jul 12

Disgraceful state of affairs. How can a lawyer fee for a court case that took less than a week justify such a huge amount. Same pay rate as Bankers by the look of it, shouldn't the losing legal team stump up some of this, as its because of them Ponty lost!?
Too many "professional people" have an inflated sense of their value to society.
I would love to see a reality TV show with Lawyers and Estate agents (and WRU executives?) left to fend for themselves on a desert island for a week.

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CM1 says...
12:52am Thu 19 Jul 12

So Robert, are you saying that teams in division one and the premier should only change when teams from the same region finish bottom of the premier and top of division one? Otherwise, there will always be an imbalance in he numbers. I'm afraid that I find your tone a little patronising, although I'm glad that EV, Newbridge and Pontypool will provide you with a little curio first division entertainment.

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Dai the Milk says...
12:53am Thu 19 Jul 12

troggno22 wrote:
the vote went for a 10 team premiership "democratic vote"?
Yes.........the 10 who voted 'for' did their maths, realised they were 'safe' and then stuck their hands in the air. It could only happen in Wales.

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Tall Pruner says...
8:32am Thu 19 Jul 12

No need for "Meritocracy" if the Criteria was worth the paper it was written on.....As the league was being ringfenced surely ALL member clubs had the right to vote on it especially those seeking promotion from Division 1?

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Cwmderi says...
12:31pm Thu 19 Jul 12

Tall
You really don't think that the control freaks at the WRU would allow a free vote to clubs outside the ring fenced protection they have crated. That would be far too democratic and the rank and file clubs that make up the WRU would not have the knowledge or understanding to make such a complex decision. Only those clubs with the self interest in their own closed shop can be trusted to deliver such a democratic decision.
I remember a former President of the WRU addressing the AGM and stating "The clubs are the WRU and we manage on their behalf" How shallow those comments are today.
Sounds more like the CEO of the City Banks and the fraternity of High Court Judges.

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Cwmderi says...
1:21pm Thu 19 Jul 12

Just did a little research on Judge Sir Raymond Jacks and wonder why the cost of the court case could run to around £400,000 when it was heard by a Judge who actually retired in Jan 2011, but has continued to sit regularly in the High Court on a part time basis? (nice little earner)
If it costs this much for a part timer, then Pontypool can be grateful that they didn't have a full time judge to hear the case.
Perhaps he was chosen to hear this case because he attended 'Rugby' Public School before going on to Cambridge.

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high x boy says...
1:51pm Thu 19 Jul 12

Pontypool knew about these in advance.the court told them before the case could go ahead

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dragons boy says...
6:48pm Thu 19 Jul 12

We should not forget who started this Court action?

"It was Pontypool."

The Wru gave an option to walk away in May.

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CM1 says...
10:02pm Thu 19 Jul 12

Why would you walk away from the court case you have brought, when you believe you have a case? Are you happy that only the wealthy can test the full course of the law? If the judge was not happy with Pontypool's level of commitment on costs, why did he allow the case to go to court, given that assurances regarding costs were at his request?

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troggno22 says...
10:33pm Thu 19 Jul 12

dragons boy you are a founder member of the wru you produce players for wales ,british lions you have a history in the game second to none and you take on your boss.try growing a pair

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dragons boy says...
5:26pm Fri 20 Jul 12

There wasnt only 1 founder member of the Wru.


But some seem Better Advised than others.

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gwentfan says...
5:53pm Fri 20 Jul 12

dragons boy

a very good post.

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CM1 says...
10:16pm Fri 20 Jul 12

Blinding intellect. Don't give up the day job.

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Regionalist says...
12:40pm Sun 22 Jul 12

How come Pontypool RFC can scrape together £80,000 to take a case to court and be reasonably confident of getting the £250,000 they need to fork out to the WRU's London solicitors as a result of this fiasco, but can't find the nominal £1 they'd need to buy out the WRU from their half of the Dragons. If I wanted to make sure I stayed in the top flight of semi-pro rugby I'd have spent the quid personally...

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