Benefit rhetoric has Nazi tones

THE brutal rhetoric used by the Con/Dem government in demonising people on benefits during the run-up to the January 8 welfare debate in the House of Commons has been the rhetoric of a schoolyard bully. Some of the rhetoric used by Chancellor of the Exchequer Osborne and DWP Sec of State Iain Duncan Smith from “that people on benefits look through their bedroom curtains and laugh at people going to work”, to “people on benefits spend their benefits on cider, cigarettes, and satellite TV” is beyond belief.

This rhetoric is similar to that used in 1930s Germany by the Nazis in demonising the Jewish population. Capping benefits, cutting housing benefit, and later in the year paying all benefit claimants monthly instead of fortnightly at reckless breakneck speed is not the way forward. Of course the Government should be applauded for tackling the sensitive subject of benefit changesand cutting the spiralling welfare budget bill. But the only thing this will do is force people deeper into poverty and despair.

Wayne Thomas Monmouth Walk Markham Blackwood

Comments (31)

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2:30pm Tue 15 Jan 13

whatintheworld says...

The new deserving poor
The new deserving poor whatintheworld

2:58pm Tue 15 Jan 13

Dolieboy says...

DWP Sec of State Iain Duncan Smith from “that people on benefits look through their bedroom curtains and laugh at people going to work”

A total lie. They are still in bed till around 10.00 so would not see most people going to work.
DWP Sec of State Iain Duncan Smith from “that people on benefits look through their bedroom curtains and laugh at people going to work” A total lie. They are still in bed till around 10.00 so would not see most people going to work. Dolieboy

3:04pm Tue 15 Jan 13

whatintheworld says...

Dolieboy wrote:
DWP Sec of State Iain Duncan Smith from “that people on benefits look through their bedroom curtains and laugh at people going to work” A total lie. They are still in bed till around 10.00 so would not see most people going to work.
thought this was rhinestine for a second..
[quote][p][bold]Dolieboy[/bold] wrote: DWP Sec of State Iain Duncan Smith from “that people on benefits look through their bedroom curtains and laugh at people going to work” A total lie. They are still in bed till around 10.00 so would not see most people going to work.[/p][/quote]thought this was rhinestine for a second.. whatintheworld

4:54pm Tue 15 Jan 13

coalpicker says...

What can you expect with our deficit, the coalition have to get the money from somewhere to give aid to Nuclear powers India and Pakistan,give immigrants and asylum seekers Housing, Education Health services,which of course they have not contributed to. Clearly, unlike myself who as a young child picked coal off slag heaps so my mother and sister
could have a fire,my father fighting the Germans at the time. We would have starved if my grand parents had not helped us . They were the good old days seems some people want to return,work houses as well. Con/Lib
are turning the land fit for hero's back
sentyfive years, Ask not for whom the bell toll's it toll's for thee . Argus I do hope I offend a few of your readers .
What can you expect with our deficit, the coalition have to get the money from somewhere to give aid to Nuclear powers India and Pakistan,give immigrants and asylum seekers Housing, Education Health services,which of course they have not contributed to. Clearly, unlike myself who as a young child picked coal off slag heaps so my mother and sister could have a fire,my father fighting the Germans at the time. We would have starved if my grand parents had not helped us . They were the good old days seems some people want to return,work houses as well. Con/Lib are turning the land fit for hero's back sentyfive years, Ask not for whom the bell toll's it toll's for thee . Argus I do hope I offend a few of your readers . coalpicker

7:10pm Tue 15 Jan 13

Mervyn James says...

We can take some heart, we know how the Nazi's ended up. I mean, apart from running Europe anyway....
We can take some heart, we know how the Nazi's ended up. I mean, apart from running Europe anyway.... Mervyn James

10:27pm Tue 15 Jan 13

Dolieboy says...

Mervyn James wrote:
We can take some heart, we know how the Nazi's ended up. I mean, apart from running Europe anyway....
Full employment, in some form or other sometimes unpaid, maybe that's the way forward ?
[quote][p][bold]Mervyn James[/bold] wrote: We can take some heart, we know how the Nazi's ended up. I mean, apart from running Europe anyway....[/p][/quote]Full employment, in some form or other sometimes unpaid, maybe that's the way forward ? Dolieboy

9:42am Wed 16 Jan 13

Mr Angry says...

I posted this on another thread - I think its very relevant :

First they came for the Unemployed,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't Unemployed.

Then they came for the Public Sector Workers,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Public Sector Worker.

Then they came for the Low paid
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't Low paid.

Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me.
I posted this on another thread - I think its very relevant : First they came for the Unemployed, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't Unemployed. Then they came for the Public Sector Workers, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Public Sector Worker. Then they came for the Low paid and I didn't speak out because I wasn't Low paid. Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me. Mr Angry

10:29am Wed 16 Jan 13

Mervyn James says...

Dolieboy wrote:
Mervyn James wrote:
We can take some heart, we know how the Nazi's ended up. I mean, apart from running Europe anyway....
Full employment, in some form or other sometimes unpaid, maybe that's the way forward ?
Disgraceful comment, it led to the Holocaust. Already the tone is "Disabled/elderly, mentally ill, are a drain on the 'rest of us'.... Perhaps someone will explain HOW people forced to work for nothing, pay rent or bills ? Didn't Tesco take on unpaid night shift help, then try to use that to SACK full time employed staff ? careful what you wish for.
[quote][p][bold]Dolieboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Mervyn James[/bold] wrote: We can take some heart, we know how the Nazi's ended up. I mean, apart from running Europe anyway....[/p][/quote]Full employment, in some form or other sometimes unpaid, maybe that's the way forward ?[/p][/quote]Disgraceful comment, it led to the Holocaust. Already the tone is "Disabled/elderly, mentally ill, are a drain on the 'rest of us'.... Perhaps someone will explain HOW people forced to work for nothing, pay rent or bills ? Didn't Tesco take on unpaid night shift help, then try to use that to SACK full time employed staff ? careful what you wish for. Mervyn James

2:40pm Wed 16 Jan 13

Dolieboy says...

What I was getting at was the long term unemployed who have no desire to work. Somehow they mange to afford their beer, cigarettes and sky tv, yet a lot of hard working people struggle on the wages they get. I only had 2 shifts in a week last year and applied for help with my rent and council tax. I was offered £3. If I had stayed at home all week and did nothing I would have been £15 better off. So much for making work pay.
What I was getting at was the long term unemployed who have no desire to work. Somehow they mange to afford their beer, cigarettes and sky tv, yet a lot of hard working people struggle on the wages they get. I only had 2 shifts in a week last year and applied for help with my rent and council tax. I was offered £3. If I had stayed at home all week and did nothing I would have been £15 better off. So much for making work pay. Dolieboy

3:28pm Wed 16 Jan 13

coalpicker says...

Mr Angry ,right on the button . Ask not for whom the bell tolls.
Mr Angry ,right on the button . Ask not for whom the bell tolls. coalpicker

4:48pm Wed 16 Jan 13

Dee-Gee says...

Dolieboy wrote:
What I was getting at was the long term unemployed who have no desire to work. Somehow they mange to afford their beer, cigarettes and sky tv, yet a lot of hard working people struggle on the wages they get. I only had 2 shifts in a week last year and applied for help with my rent and council tax. I was offered £3. If I had stayed at home all week and did nothing I would have been £15 better off. So much for making work pay.
I've had countless unemployed people give me the old "Work is for mugs" speech. But when you get beneath the front and bravado, they're usually very proud people, much like yourself - and are desperately ashamed that they can't find work (or believe themselves to be unemployable). "Don't want to work anyway" is just their way of dealing with the shame and sense of rejection.

Well done on sticking through 2 shifts a week, that must've been really tough. There does need to be much more protection for workers with precarious hours. Hope your situation's improved since then.
[quote][p][bold]Dolieboy[/bold] wrote: What I was getting at was the long term unemployed who have no desire to work. Somehow they mange to afford their beer, cigarettes and sky tv, yet a lot of hard working people struggle on the wages they get. I only had 2 shifts in a week last year and applied for help with my rent and council tax. I was offered £3. If I had stayed at home all week and did nothing I would have been £15 better off. So much for making work pay.[/p][/quote]I've had countless unemployed people give me the old "Work is for mugs" speech. But when you get beneath the front and bravado, they're usually very proud people, much like yourself - and are desperately ashamed that they can't find work (or believe themselves to be unemployable). "Don't want to work anyway" is just their way of dealing with the shame and sense of rejection. Well done on sticking through 2 shifts a week, that must've been really tough. There does need to be much more protection for workers with precarious hours. Hope your situation's improved since then. Dee-Gee

9:24am Thu 17 Jan 13

Mervyn James says...

Unemployed - disabled, DIFFERENT sectors with quite serious differing need. The government already recognises disabled are the most determined job seekers, they have to be because employers don't want them. Will people STOP saying disabled and work shy frauds are the same people, they certainly are not. There should be a moderator here to correct posters who libel disabled people with blanket declarations. None ever name anyone else because there is no valid proof so to do, in case of doubt belt up or put up.
Unemployed - disabled, DIFFERENT sectors with quite serious differing need. The government already recognises disabled are the most determined job seekers, they have to be because employers don't want them. Will people STOP saying disabled and work shy frauds are the same people, they certainly are not. There should be a moderator here to correct posters who libel disabled people with blanket declarations. None ever name anyone else because there is no valid proof so to do, in case of doubt belt up or put up. Mervyn James

4:37pm Thu 17 Jan 13

Llanmartinangel says...

Mr Angry wrote:
I posted this on another thread - I think its very relevant :

First they came for the Unemployed,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't Unemployed.

Then they came for the Public Sector Workers,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Public Sector Worker.

Then they came for the Low paid
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't Low paid.

Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me.
Are you in the advanced stages of paranoia? Who are 'they'? The voices? The little people? The men in white coats? (Much more likely).
[quote][p][bold]Mr Angry[/bold] wrote: I posted this on another thread - I think its very relevant : First they came for the Unemployed, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't Unemployed. Then they came for the Public Sector Workers, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Public Sector Worker. Then they came for the Low paid and I didn't speak out because I wasn't Low paid. Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me.[/p][/quote]Are you in the advanced stages of paranoia? Who are 'they'? The voices? The little people? The men in white coats? (Much more likely). Llanmartinangel

10:29am Fri 18 Jan 13

coalpicker says...

In support of Mr Angry and hopfully the
the enlightenment of Llanmartinangel,
The bomb proof men in white coats are currently killing people ( The Liverpool
Care Path)if reports are correct they are also supplying donated organs to foreigners who are paying privately for the priviledge .The Welsh asembly are
now in the process of giving these people the right to remove organs from people without permission. Regardless
of the need, this is a very dubious path.
Disposing of the disabled and the unemployed does not need a giant leap
of imagination,just a desperate government and a compliant and Bovine
electorate ,which we have.
Mr Angry is right they could be coming for you next .
In support of Mr Angry and hopfully the the enlightenment of Llanmartinangel, The bomb proof men in white coats are currently killing people ( The Liverpool Care Path)if reports are correct they are also supplying donated organs to foreigners who are paying privately for the priviledge .The Welsh asembly are now in the process of giving these people the right to remove organs from people without permission. Regardless of the need, this is a very dubious path. Disposing of the disabled and the unemployed does not need a giant leap of imagination,just a desperate government and a compliant and Bovine electorate ,which we have. Mr Angry is right they could be coming for you next . coalpicker

2:11pm Fri 18 Jan 13

P C Neilson says...

Mr Angry is spot on, a 'manics' song springs to minds when I think of what might be coming while we tolerate.

So quick to scourn those 'living it up' on council estates, staying in bed till 10, before enjoying an early afternoon stella. Sounds like heaven? Of course it does.

With the way things are going it is not unreasonable to imagine that any one of us could end up enjoying such a wonderful lifestyle. You'll be one of them, they'll be your neighbours. For most of us it would only take a short run of misfortune.

As for moderators removing unpopular comments, that is a stupid idea. The commenters here are generally very good and this is great place to share and learn with one another. Only abuse would warrant removal, as I'm pretty sure that the nature of this kind forum is self moderating to certain degree, via the public beat down that a deserving comment tends to get.

This is also helpful to the offending commenter.
Mr Angry is spot on, a 'manics' song springs to minds when I think of what might be coming while we tolerate. So quick to scourn those 'living it up' on council estates, staying in bed till 10, before enjoying an early afternoon stella. Sounds like heaven? Of course it does. With the way things are going it is not unreasonable to imagine that any one of us could end up enjoying such a wonderful lifestyle. You'll be one of them, they'll be your neighbours. For most of us it would only take a short run of misfortune. As for moderators removing unpopular comments, that is a stupid idea. The commenters here are generally very good and this is great place to share and learn with one another. Only abuse would warrant removal, as I'm pretty sure that the nature of this kind forum is self moderating to certain degree, via the public beat down that a deserving comment tends to get. This is also helpful to the offending commenter. P C Neilson

4:42pm Fri 18 Jan 13

Llanmartinangel says...

coalpicker wrote:
In support of Mr Angry and hopfully the
the enlightenment of Llanmartinangel,
The bomb proof men in white coats are currently killing people ( The Liverpool
Care Path)if reports are correct they are also supplying donated organs to foreigners who are paying privately for the priviledge .The Welsh asembly are
now in the process of giving these people the right to remove organs from people without permission. Regardless
of the need, this is a very dubious path.
Disposing of the disabled and the unemployed does not need a giant leap
of imagination,just a desperate government and a compliant and Bovine
electorate ,which we have.
Mr Angry is right they could be coming for you next .
Sorry but that's advanced conspiracy theory at its worst. The stupid WAG proposal on organs is fraught with unseen issues and is a practical minefield. There are too many whistleblowers and human rights obsessives in this country to 'sell organs to foreigners' unchallenged. We can't even keep the secret services secret let alone what happens in hospitals.
[quote][p][bold]coalpicker[/bold] wrote: In support of Mr Angry and hopfully the the enlightenment of Llanmartinangel, The bomb proof men in white coats are currently killing people ( The Liverpool Care Path)if reports are correct they are also supplying donated organs to foreigners who are paying privately for the priviledge .The Welsh asembly are now in the process of giving these people the right to remove organs from people without permission. Regardless of the need, this is a very dubious path. Disposing of the disabled and the unemployed does not need a giant leap of imagination,just a desperate government and a compliant and Bovine electorate ,which we have. Mr Angry is right they could be coming for you next .[/p][/quote]Sorry but that's advanced conspiracy theory at its worst. The stupid WAG proposal on organs is fraught with unseen issues and is a practical minefield. There are too many whistleblowers and human rights obsessives in this country to 'sell organs to foreigners' unchallenged. We can't even keep the secret services secret let alone what happens in hospitals. Llanmartinangel

5:15pm Fri 18 Jan 13

coalpicker says...

WELL, think of Savile, the abuse of children in care, the inquiry ie Hilsborough,the corruption involving
police ,newspapers phone hacking.
Amputating the wrong limb, removeing the wrong kidney starving the elderly,no punishment. A gas fitter showing the same level of incompetence, causing death would very soon find himself in jail. I repeat,
ask not for whom the bell tolls
WELL, think of Savile, the abuse of children in care, the inquiry ie Hilsborough,the corruption involving police ,newspapers phone hacking. Amputating the wrong limb, removeing the wrong kidney starving the elderly,no punishment. A gas fitter showing the same level of incompetence, causing death would very soon find himself in jail. I repeat, ask not for whom the bell tolls coalpicker

4:19pm Sat 19 Jan 13

P C Neilson says...

I love that line 'ask not for whom the bell tolls' gave me goosies :-)

While I think that we don't get what we want from democracy, and some proposed laws and decisions are a foregone conclusion, I agree with Llanmartinangel on how hard it is to keep secrets in the electronic age, plus whistleblowers of course.

Usually if an explaination seems outrageous or unnecessarily convoluted, it should raise an eyebrow.

Some of the things listed above are totally about the rich and influential not getting punished by the same laws that the rest of us have to follow, selfish greed and guilt are powerful indeed.

It's not a conspiracy that the rich and influential get away with unspeakable things, it's in the open every day for all to see, ugly and disgusting, like a ballbag flapping in the wind.

See, I'm not so good at cool euphemisms. I'll be quiet now.
I love that line 'ask not for whom the bell tolls' gave me goosies :-) While I think that we don't get what we want from democracy, and some proposed laws and decisions are a foregone conclusion, I agree with Llanmartinangel on how hard it is to keep secrets in the electronic age, plus whistleblowers of course. Usually if an explaination seems outrageous or unnecessarily convoluted, it should raise an eyebrow. Some of the things listed above are totally about the rich and influential not getting punished by the same laws that the rest of us have to follow, selfish greed and guilt are powerful indeed. It's not a conspiracy that the rich and influential get away with unspeakable things, it's in the open every day for all to see, ugly and disgusting, like a ballbag flapping in the wind. See, I'm not so good at cool euphemisms. I'll be quiet now. P C Neilson

10:20am Sun 20 Jan 13

Llanmartinangel says...

http://www.thesun.co
.uk/sol/homepage/new
s/4753651/lithuanian
-immigrant-youre-a-s
oft-touch.html
Is this 'benefit rhetoric'? I don't read the Sun but picked it up on Sky News. Interesting huh?
http://www.thesun.co .uk/sol/homepage/new s/4753651/lithuanian -immigrant-youre-a-s oft-touch.html Is this 'benefit rhetoric'? I don't read the Sun but picked it up on Sky News. Interesting huh? Llanmartinangel

1:12pm Sun 20 Jan 13

P C Neilson says...

Yes this is rhetoric. Quite a few things wrong with the layout and language used, I doubt much of it is true.

If it is true, I struggle to understand why a highly educated, intelligent, over qualified, multi lingual woman with a child would publicly jeopardise her champagne (13k pffft) cushy lifestyle. People are generally not celebrating their 'under class' status, living on hand outs.

It makes no sense. I know that it is another question to get people to run themselves into the ground for say, ten or twenty pound more than they get on benefits, I can see their logic. Good morals won't restore your health or lower your stress. I think most people 'want' to work, but where are the jobs.

Nice article, unfortunately fake or not a typical example of what is really going on.
Yes this is rhetoric. Quite a few things wrong with the layout and language used, I doubt much of it is true. If it is true, I struggle to understand why a highly educated, intelligent, over qualified, multi lingual woman with a child would publicly jeopardise her champagne (13k pffft) cushy lifestyle. People are generally not celebrating their 'under class' status, living on hand outs. It makes no sense. I know that it is another question to get people to run themselves into the ground for say, ten or twenty pound more than they get on benefits, I can see their logic. Good morals won't restore your health or lower your stress. I think most people 'want' to work, but where are the jobs. Nice article, unfortunately fake or not a typical example of what is really going on. P C Neilson

8:14am Mon 21 Jan 13

Llanmartinangel says...

If true (and it looks authentic), it illustrates (a) how easy it is to get £14k without contributing at all and (b) the danger of EU immigration. What you need to bear in mind is, this lady's cost to the taxpayer doesn't stop at these benefits. There's healthcare and education on top. It may not worry those who think the treasury is a bottomless pit but it worries everyone else.
If true (and it looks authentic), it illustrates (a) how easy it is to get £14k without contributing at all and (b) the danger of EU immigration. What you need to bear in mind is, this lady's cost to the taxpayer doesn't stop at these benefits. There's healthcare and education on top. It may not worry those who think the treasury is a bottomless pit but it worries everyone else. Llanmartinangel

12:36pm Mon 21 Jan 13

whatintheworld says...

Llanmartinangel wrote:
http://www.thesun.co .uk/sol/homepage/new s/4753651/lithuanian -immigrant-youre-a-s oft-touch.html Is this 'benefit rhetoric'? I don't read the Sun but picked it up on Sky News. Interesting huh?
"i know the sun might be unreliable, but news international company sky news said it! must be true guys! guys?.."
[quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: http://www.thesun.co .uk/sol/homepage/new s/4753651/lithuanian -immigrant-youre-a-s oft-touch.html Is this 'benefit rhetoric'? I don't read the Sun but picked it up on Sky News. Interesting huh?[/p][/quote]"i know the sun might be unreliable, but news international company sky news said it! must be true guys! guys?.." whatintheworld

12:38pm Mon 21 Jan 13

whatintheworld says...

Llanmartinangel wrote:
If true (and it looks authentic), it illustrates (a) how easy it is to get £14k without contributing at all and (b) the danger of EU immigration. What you need to bear in mind is, this lady's cost to the taxpayer doesn't stop at these benefits. There's healthcare and education on top. It may not worry those who think the treasury is a bottomless pit but it worries everyone else.
ridiculous, only about 1% of the eastern europeans that came over use our benefits system/nhs. these are econmic migrants - fit, young and healthy.
[quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: If true (and it looks authentic), it illustrates (a) how easy it is to get £14k without contributing at all and (b) the danger of EU immigration. What you need to bear in mind is, this lady's cost to the taxpayer doesn't stop at these benefits. There's healthcare and education on top. It may not worry those who think the treasury is a bottomless pit but it worries everyone else.[/p][/quote]ridiculous, only about 1% of the eastern europeans that came over use our benefits system/nhs. these are econmic migrants - fit, young and healthy. whatintheworld

1:11pm Mon 21 Jan 13

let em swing says...

We would have been better off as a hitler alli, he wouldnt have had half the immigrant trouble we are fostering, and might have a showed a bit of pride in his own nation, and given the lies of government, most old soldiers will be turning in their graves and thinking they were on the wrong side.
We would have been better off as a hitler alli, he wouldnt have had half the immigrant trouble we are fostering, and might have a showed a bit of pride in his own nation, and given the lies of government, most old soldiers will be turning in their graves and thinking they were on the wrong side. let em swing

1:34pm Mon 21 Jan 13

Llanmartinangel says...

whatintheworld wrote:
Llanmartinangel wrote:
If true (and it looks authentic), it illustrates (a) how easy it is to get £14k without contributing at all and (b) the danger of EU immigration. What you need to bear in mind is, this lady's cost to the taxpayer doesn't stop at these benefits. There's healthcare and education on top. It may not worry those who think the treasury is a bottomless pit but it worries everyone else.
ridiculous, only about 1% of the eastern europeans that came over use our benefits system/nhs. these are econmic migrants - fit, young and healthy.
Where did you get 1% from?
[quote][p][bold]whatintheworld[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: If true (and it looks authentic), it illustrates (a) how easy it is to get £14k without contributing at all and (b) the danger of EU immigration. What you need to bear in mind is, this lady's cost to the taxpayer doesn't stop at these benefits. There's healthcare and education on top. It may not worry those who think the treasury is a bottomless pit but it worries everyone else.[/p][/quote]ridiculous, only about 1% of the eastern europeans that came over use our benefits system/nhs. these are econmic migrants - fit, young and healthy.[/p][/quote]Where did you get 1% from? Llanmartinangel

1:38pm Mon 21 Jan 13

Llanmartinangel says...

The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) research found:

As of February 2011, there were 5.5m people receiving working-age benefits. Some 371,000 of those were foreign nationals when they first came to the UK, representing 6.4% of the claimants.
Almost 17% of all British nationals receive these benefits compared with almost 7% of all those classed as non-UK nationals when they first arrived in the UK.
The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) research found: As of February 2011, there were 5.5m people receiving working-age benefits. Some 371,000 of those were foreign nationals when they first came to the UK, representing 6.4% of the claimants. Almost 17% of all British nationals receive these benefits compared with almost 7% of all those classed as non-UK nationals when they first arrived in the UK. Llanmartinangel

4:20pm Mon 21 Jan 13

whatintheworld says...

Llanmartinangel wrote:
whatintheworld wrote:
Llanmartinangel wrote:
If true (and it looks authentic), it illustrates (a) how easy it is to get £14k without contributing at all and (b) the danger of EU immigration. What you need to bear in mind is, this lady's cost to the taxpayer doesn't stop at these benefits. There's healthcare and education on top. It may not worry those who think the treasury is a bottomless pit but it worries everyone else.
ridiculous, only about 1% of the eastern europeans that came over use our benefits system/nhs. these are econmic migrants - fit, young and healthy.
Where did you get 1% from?
just checked,1% relates to social housing occupancy by eu immigrants, so fair enough my mistake.

http://www.guardian.
co.uk/commentisfree/
2012/jan/20/truth-ab
out-benefit-tourism

this article studies the same figures you've used in your later reply.

basically says 371,000 sounds a big number, without context. in reality immigrants from anywhere, are HALF as likely to claim benefits as a uk national.
[quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]whatintheworld[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: If true (and it looks authentic), it illustrates (a) how easy it is to get £14k without contributing at all and (b) the danger of EU immigration. What you need to bear in mind is, this lady's cost to the taxpayer doesn't stop at these benefits. There's healthcare and education on top. It may not worry those who think the treasury is a bottomless pit but it worries everyone else.[/p][/quote]ridiculous, only about 1% of the eastern europeans that came over use our benefits system/nhs. these are econmic migrants - fit, young and healthy.[/p][/quote]Where did you get 1% from?[/p][/quote]just checked,1% relates to social housing occupancy by eu immigrants, so fair enough my mistake. http://www.guardian. co.uk/commentisfree/ 2012/jan/20/truth-ab out-benefit-tourism this article studies the same figures you've used in your later reply. basically says 371,000 sounds a big number, without context. in reality immigrants from anywhere, are HALF as likely to claim benefits as a uk national. whatintheworld

6:33pm Mon 21 Jan 13

P C Neilson says...

I won't dispute that we can't afford migrants to the levels that we have taken in, and who am I to question the story that statistics tell. Statistics show that 89% of all statistics recorded are inaccurate, as shown by comparing the top leading statistics. See, I just did it to myself.

Honestly, I'm in the wilderness on this subject, I simply couldn't say how many immigrants are taking the mickey out of our benefits system or flooding here because of it, and without brazen admission (the sun article) or knowing what it's like to get work as an immigrant (not a story that the statistics relay in depth), I wouldn't be so bold as to say.

What bothers me is that the article is overly vulgar in it's unabashed use of a 'straw man argument'. It just seems unlikely behaviour for someone to 'bite the hand that feeds them'. It seems to be playing up to the nations understandable insecurities, and is ever so slightly xenophobic.

P C is my name but PC is not my game. Pragmatism is needed. If there are no jobs, we can't support immigration, skilled or otherwise. We have talented potential investors here, so that isn't an argument to my mind. So I agree in that much.

Of course it is very likely that I am talking out of my chuff, as I have already admitted, I don't know enough about it.
I won't dispute that we can't afford migrants to the levels that we have taken in, and who am I to question the story that statistics tell. Statistics show that 89% of all statistics recorded are inaccurate, as shown by comparing the top leading statistics. See, I just did it to myself. Honestly, I'm in the wilderness on this subject, I simply couldn't say how many immigrants are taking the mickey out of our benefits system or flooding here because of it, and without brazen admission (the sun article) or knowing what it's like to get work as an immigrant (not a story that the statistics relay in depth), I wouldn't be so bold as to say. What bothers me is that the article is overly vulgar in it's unabashed use of a 'straw man argument'. It just seems unlikely behaviour for someone to 'bite the hand that feeds them'. It seems to be playing up to the nations understandable insecurities, and is ever so slightly xenophobic. P C is my name but PC is not my game. Pragmatism is needed. If there are no jobs, we can't support immigration, skilled or otherwise. We have talented potential investors here, so that isn't an argument to my mind. So I agree in that much. Of course it is very likely that I am talking out of my chuff, as I have already admitted, I don't know enough about it. P C Neilson

7:44am Tue 22 Jan 13

Dai Rear says...

"demonising" : the use of this word defines someone as being from the far left. The funny thing is the way they get on their hobby horses about Nazism when there was not a fag paper's width of difference between Nazism and Communism-the only bit I can think of is that Nazism was more abstemious, but then so are the Taliban.
"demonising" : the use of this word defines someone as being from the far left. The funny thing is the way they get on their hobby horses about Nazism when there was not a fag paper's width of difference between Nazism and Communism-the only bit I can think of is that Nazism was more abstemious, but then so are the Taliban. Dai Rear

10:34am Tue 22 Jan 13

county mad says...

I do enjoy a good laugh and the labour scare merchants always tickle me . So now its the Nazis in government is it. To quote Josef Stalin tell a lie often enough and loud enough and people will believe it.
I do enjoy a good laugh and the labour scare merchants always tickle me . So now its the Nazis in government is it. To quote Josef Stalin tell a lie often enough and loud enough and people will believe it. county mad

1:02pm Tue 22 Jan 13

whatintheworld says...

county mad wrote:
I do enjoy a good laugh and the labour scare merchants always tickle me . So now its the Nazis in government is it. To quote Josef Stalin tell a lie often enough and loud enough and people will believe it.
just a tid bit, youre think of th nazi propaganda minister joseph goebbels. he said "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State."
[quote][p][bold]county mad[/bold] wrote: I do enjoy a good laugh and the labour scare merchants always tickle me . So now its the Nazis in government is it. To quote Josef Stalin tell a lie often enough and loud enough and people will believe it.[/p][/quote]just a tid bit, youre think of th nazi propaganda minister joseph goebbels. he said "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State." whatintheworld

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