A lesson from history (From South Wales Argus)
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A lesson from history
2:51pm Monday 21st January 2013 in Letters
FOLLOWING on from Wayne Thomas in the letters page on the 15th January, I have followed the news on television and in newspapers for a while, and have noted the similarities between the government’s policies and its attempt to justify them, to the way that Hitler came to power and maintained that power for a number of years. The systematic way in which the coalition uses newspapers and television to perpetrate their idea that there is a race problem, union problem, an old person problem, disabled problem, European problem.
Setting one group of the population against another seems to be the way that this coalition is determined to create strife and disorder in order to put their policies into the statute book. There is never a bankers’ problem, management problem and financial problem that is deemed serious enough to require legislation. We cannot allow this, the most right-wing government that has ever come to power in Britain, to create a country of embitterment and jealousy.
W.D. Gange Greenhill Road Pontypool
Comments(28)
Mervyn James
says...
7:31pm Mon 21 Jan 13
Basically it is a 'divide and rule' tactic, by setting everyone against each other via 'blame' they neatly divert attention away from the fact THEY are the problem. Everyone is a fraud, everyone is denying everyone else fair play, especially the sick, the old, and vulnerable, and the elderly living too long. The tories are Hitlers children..
Mervyn James
says...
7:31pm Mon 21 Jan 13
Basically it is a 'divide and rule' tactic, by setting everyone against each other via 'blame' they neatly divert attention away from the fact THEY are the problem. Everyone is a fraud, everyone is denying everyone else fair play, especially the sick, the old, and vulnerable, and the elderly living too long. The tories are Hitlers children..
Llanmartinangel
says...
7:41pm Mon 21 Jan 13
Mr Angry
says...
8:06am Tue 22 Jan 13
The Unemployed - for not having a job.
Public Sector workers - for having a job
Builders - for cash in hand jobs
The low paid - for claiming tax credits
Pregnant women- who only get pregnant for tax credits
The EEC - for red tape ie: peoples employment rights
But no mention of the Banks, tax dodgers in the city, Vodafone Tory Donars, you get what I mean.
Mr Angry
says...
8:10am Tue 22 Jan 13
I hope that those who labled him scrounger feel proud especially that Dunacn Smith, who by the way has been a dole scrounger himself in the past.
Llanmartinangel
says...
9:38am Tue 22 Jan 13
Mr Angry wrote:This: From the Guardian in October
And not forgetting the sick and disabled. There was a person examined by atos and declared fit for work, the day after he died form his illness.
I hope that those who labled him scrounger feel proud especially that Dunacn Smith, who by the way has been a dole scrounger himself in the past.
Disability charities have given a cautious welcome to a government announcement that more claimants are receiving maximum, unconditional disability benefit payments, the apparent result of ongoing improvements to the testing system.
The percentage of new claimants receiving unconditional Employment and Support Allowance (ESA) payments has doubled since May 2010, the quarterly statistical release from the Department for Work and Pensions showed.
The quarterly statistical release showed that 54% of new claimants assessed were found to be able to work, while 46% were eligible for the benefit. Those eligible for payments fall into two categories – 26% were put into the support group, classified as too ill or disabled to work. In May 2010, just 10%-11% of claimants were put into this group.
Twenty percent of claimants were put into the work-related activity group, which means they are currently assessed as too ill or disabled to work, but will be expected to have regular Jobcentre meetings to start preparing them for an eventual return to work.
So is your point that we should just go on paying it to people for ever without ever checking if their condition has changed?
Mr Angry
says...
9:59am Tue 22 Jan 13
Llanmartinangel
says...
10:07am Tue 22 Jan 13
Mr Angry
says...
10:19am Tue 22 Jan 13
Llanmartinangel
says...
10:21am Tue 22 Jan 13
Mr Angry
says...
10:41am Tue 22 Jan 13
You should be ashamed
Llanmartinangel
says...
10:57am Tue 22 Jan 13
Llanmartinangel
says...
11:01am Tue 22 Jan 13
Mr Angry
says...
12:50pm Tue 22 Jan 13
There have been many articles regarding this.
Llanmartinangel
says...
3:06pm Tue 22 Jan 13
Mr Angry wrote:Errr, no! Can you quote where I 'demonised' anybody or made any remark regarding 'terminally ill'? I merely think that anyone who's disability isn't obviously permanent should be regularly reviewed. Everything else you made up.
No mate, its you that think that the demonisation of the sick ( who have already been examined by GPs) and the terminally ill are malingering.
You should be ashamed
Mervyn James
says...
11:17am Wed 23 Jan 13
Llanmartinangel wrote:I think quoting the Guardian blew it, they aren't a social savvy as they make out.m They have been forced to make 3 public newspaper apologies for getting disabilty articles wrong. Frankly we are all mushrooms, that is, kept in the dark and fed.....
Mr Angry wrote:This: From the Guardian in October
And not forgetting the sick and disabled. There was a person examined by atos and declared fit for work, the day after he died form his illness.
I hope that those who labled him scrounger feel proud especially that Dunacn Smith, who by the way has been a dole scrounger himself in the past.
Disability charities have given a cautious welcome to a government announcement that more claimants are receiving maximum, unconditional disability benefit payments, the apparent result of ongoing improvements to the testing system.
The percentage of new claimants receiving unconditional Employment and Support Allowance (ESA) payments has doubled since May 2010, the quarterly statistical release from the Department for Work and Pensions showed.
The quarterly statistical release showed that 54% of new claimants assessed were found to be able to work, while 46% were eligible for the benefit. Those eligible for payments fall into two categories – 26% were put into the support group, classified as too ill or disabled to work. In May 2010, just 10%-11% of claimants were put into this group.
Twenty percent of claimants were put into the work-related activity group, which means they are currently assessed as too ill or disabled to work, but will be expected to have regular Jobcentre meetings to start preparing them for an eventual return to work.
So is your point that we should just go on paying it to people for ever without ever checking if their condition has changed?
Llanmartinangel
says...
1:55pm Wed 23 Jan 13
P C Neilson
says...
3:02pm Wed 23 Jan 13
I agree that social background and situation has a lot to do with what view we are likely to agree with, the media is a lifeline to finding out what is going on in the world where direct experience is not possible.
We can only arm ourselves with cognitive tools on how to work out what is likely to be true, if I find myself strongly disagreeing with something, it is sometimes helpful for me to scrutinise why.
I realise that we are at the mercy of how accurate or objective the reports are and I try to keep this in mind.
Maybe scepticism is not a natural tool that has much use in day to day life. Maybe scepticism has a negative definition to some.
I'll gladly take conspiracy theories and warped public opinion from time to time in exchange for freedom of expression.
Howie'
says...
3:43pm Thu 24 Jan 13
Llanmartinangel wrote:Very good, I enjoyed that.
I know Mervyn. Had I quoted the same text from The Times or Telegrapgh, Howie would have griped. Had I used the DWP official press release it would have been 'government propoganda'. I decided not to bother with Al Jazeera either as it was just too far flung. Surely there must be a Welsh Language publication read by 6 people and a bilingual hamster that has an authentic take on it?
Independentvoter
says...
7:17pm Thu 24 Jan 13
Independentvoter
says...
7:46pm Thu 24 Jan 13
You say that disabled people should be routinely scrutinised for their 'rightful claims to benefit' then you state;
"People have died walking out of hospitals having been told they are fine".
Once again, I dont understand your point.
Llanmartinangel
says...
9:08am Fri 25 Jan 13
Independentvoter wrote:You clearly haven't read the entire thread. Mr Angry quoted a case of a guy dying after an examination by Atos. Medical assessment, as much as we would like it to, cannot be 100% reliable in all cases. That doesn't mean we shouldn't do it. We should strive for better but perfection in medical matters is a pipe-dream. That's all I was saying.
Llanmartinangel,
You say that disabled people should be routinely scrutinised for their 'rightful claims to benefit' then you state;
"People have died walking out of hospitals having been told they are fine".
Once again, I dont understand your point.
welshmen
says...
8:12pm Fri 25 Jan 13
Most of the Cabinet have never had a " proper job" yet they have the ordacity to tell us there way is the only way to save our country, well as we all know none of them have it in them to save our country, the evil or disease that kills any permanent recovery is "fractional banking" the bankers charge the Government interest on money they "Borrow to keep our economy growing, that's not working in fact we are going backwards.
We need a Government who have the COURAGE to print it's own money and tell the bankers to keep there money and there interest rates.Government are allowed to print it's own money as long it is honoured, it worked for Abraham Lincoln, the "green back" ie one dollar bill,it will work for us, we are told we need lots of houses, the Government can get all of or construction workers back to work, print the money to pay the workers, don't borrow it of the bankers,and the Government can fund other developments in all aspects of business, the cost to private borrowers would be 10% of the money + admin fee, the money would be loaned in stage payments and repaid the same, our disabled, pensioners, young and old alike could live a better life, job centers could be a thing of the past....
one of the Richest Bankers has a personnel wealth of around £500 trillion Dollars,that's Rothschild....
Mervyn James
says...
9:06am Mon 28 Jan 13
Independentvoter wrote:It is the people quoting from red tops and other printed toilet rolls filled with disinformation. If they want details I can give them the official DWP website and 28 disability areas who have taken the whole thing apart line by line. Basically the DLA stops, PIP starts and the assessment assume everyone is lying and you have to prove differently. They foresee challenges will bring the PIP process to a halt, albeit 300K with hearing loss getting DLA will not get any benefit is the present claim.
It is quite obvious that some posters on here haven't got a clue about disabled people, disabilities or the current PIP benefit system.
coalpicker
says...
12:33pm Mon 28 Jan 13
these posts. Perhaps one could answer
the question, if some one were to die as
a result of an illness or a disability they
had been claiming for but which benefit
had subsequently been denied them ,
because of the terms of reference being
in operation used by the medical professional ( get them off benefit regardless) would the family of the deceased have a winnable case in
law against the Medic for incompetence or negligence and or
the government , or will the medical professional bomb proof status be applied,giving government the same protection ? Would be an interesting
case for the jackals feeding and getting fat on human rights issues .
Llanmartinangel
says...
12:59pm Mon 28 Jan 13
coalpicker wrote:Are you referring to the same 'medical profession' who treat you at your GP and in hospitals? I repeat, medicine isn't as exact a science as people would like. A landlord of a pub I use went to A&E complaining of headaches. After a thorough exam and a scan he went back to work, having being told there was nothing that could be found. He died of a stroke later that day. His family are quite sure it could not have been foreseen.Doctors are extremely risk averse and most, despite your views to the contrary, are caring. To say they would just arbitrarily do the government's bidding for the hell of it seems like conspiracy theory to me. There is always the alternative that some of you seem to be suggesting, of course: That once we start paying disability benefit we pay it for life, regardless of the possibility or likelihood of improvement, new effective treatment or recovery.
There are great minds contributing to
these posts. Perhaps one could answer
the question, if some one were to die as
a result of an illness or a disability they
had been claiming for but which benefit
had subsequently been denied them ,
because of the terms of reference being
in operation used by the medical professional ( get them off benefit regardless) would the family of the deceased have a winnable case in
law against the Medic for incompetence or negligence and or
the government , or will the medical professional bomb proof status be applied,giving government the same protection ? Would be an interesting
case for the jackals feeding and getting fat on human rights issues .
whatintheworld
says...
1:46pm Mon 28 Jan 13
Mervyn James wrote:it's re-assuring knowing this website isn't full of complete numptys. thanks mervyn!
Independentvoter wrote: It is quite obvious that some posters on here haven't got a clue about disabled people, disabilities or the current PIP benefit system.It is the people quoting from red tops and other printed toilet rolls filled with disinformation. If they want details I can give them the official DWP website and 28 disability areas who have taken the whole thing apart line by line. Basically the DLA stops, PIP starts and the assessment assume everyone is lying and you have to prove differently. They foresee challenges will bring the PIP process to a halt, albeit 300K with hearing loss getting DLA will not get any benefit is the present claim.
P C Neilson says...
3:34pm Mon 21 Jan 13
Letting things slide such as union rights and local issues is our own fault to a certain extent. We rely on authority to get it right, so we don't have to take any interest ourselves, when the reality is that they will seldom come to decisions that reflect our desires. It seems to me that the only thing we can do is keep being vocal in our opposition, and support lobbyists that match our views.
I don't think that there is freedom to demonstrate like their should be, (this is the way it might end up) and nobody wants to hurt their lively-hood and social standing by getting roughed up by the police on the picket line and possibly getting a criminal record out of it. Myself included.
I admire those that are willing to do so, and I think we must support them. I'm not even sure that the 'average joe' is capable of making pragmatic decisions, my confidence in public opinion is regularly shaken, but then that is because I have my own bias, as do the men and women running the country. But this is normal and what we should expect of our fellow mammals.
Rich and influential people seldom get the same brand of justice that mere 'plebs' do, and blame shifting is still a good way to pull attention away from the public eye, and muddy the issues.
This government is guilty of lots of unnecessary injustices, and I agree it 'has' to go. In it's place I think we need 'new blood' where it counts. The last generation are doing a terrible job (no offence). That's what I think anyway.