Economical with the truth (From South Wales Argus)

Agreed. And in case anyone missed it, this brilliant post quoting a professor of sociology fully supports the letter above:

Christie Davies argues that as the Welsh language will and must die out, encouraging people to learn it is a pointless exercise

The study of Welsh is compulsory in all schools in Wales. In Gwynedd all teaching is exclusively through the medium of Welsh. Yet, in my opinion, learning Welsh is of no use to anyone, since even in Wales itself the language is spoken by less than a fifth of the population and the vast majority of Welsh speakers are bilingual, often with English as their stronger language.

In the past, when Welsh was stronger, it acted as a fetter on the achievements of the Welsh people. In Cornwall, where the people were liberated from the Cornish version of Welsh in the 18th century and entered fully into the English-speaking world of science and commerce, Davy discovered sodium, Trevithick invented the steam engine and Cousin Jack went on to dominate hard-rock mining throughout the world. All that could have been ours but for the bindweed of the Welsh language. There are no jobs for which a knowledge of Welsh is necessary.

It is not surprising that supporters of the Welsh language say that their aim is some kind of blurred bilingualism rather than monoglot Welshness. English speakers in Wales, as in England, would benefit more from a thorough knowledge of some other world language such as German and Spanish.

Whereas there is a strong case for ensuring that all school children in the United Kingdom should acquire a thorough mastery of all aspects of the English language, no such argument can be applied to the teaching and learning of Welsh. Rather, two libertarian principles should prevail throughout the Principality. First, all pupils should have an inalienable right to be educated through the medium of English. Second, every pupil should have the right not to study Welsh and to have access to a choice of modern languages in school.

While the Welsh language will, should and must die out, it does not follow that the study of dead Welsh should be abandoned. On the contrary the Welsh of the past should be made available alongside Latin and Greek for the more gifted pupils. Welsh is the nearest thing we have to the language of Caradog and Boudica, the ancestral language of everyone throughout England, Wales, Scotland and Ulster, with the exception of the alien Gaelic-speaking peoples of the outer fringes. Within Wales itself a new modular course in postmodernist Welshness could be introduced into all schools on a purely optional basis. Pupils would shop around for those bits and pieces of Welsh identity reflecting their own particular needs. Those for whom the teaching of things Welsh is merely disguised separatism and treason may well object that such an approach lacks a coherent metanarrative. Yet we teach religion in schools in exactly this fashion. The traditional Welsh way of life flourishes today only in rural Country Antrim. Shoring up a dying language will not bring back the moral culture for which it was once a vehicle.

Christie Davies is professor of sociology at the University of Reading.

What a ridiculous statement. Most of our budget is spent on English signs, literature and advertising. As an English speaking Welshman I can claim English was forced down my throat...as a kid all I could see was English. In regards to "forcing" children to learn Welsh...I was forced to learn art, design technology, etc, if that's the case...do I use any of that now? No. Welsh is more useful to me in Wales then art was. Besides when I look at results from schools today, it is mostly the Welsh medium schools that are outperforming the English medium ones...just look at this year's league table that puts a Welsh medium school in Swansea as best in Wales!
In regards to a "Welsh Language Act"...Len should educate himself before he comments...the Welsh Language Acts were both implemented by the Tories in 1967 and 1993. There was a Welsh Language Measure in 2011 supported by all four parties in Wales! He then states about wasting resources on the language, meanwhile his parties waste money on illegal wars and nuclear weapons and that's in the hundreds of billions!
Lastly, not sure where he got his 10% from for north and west Wales, better get your census out again I think.
Llanmartinangel: there's no point talking or taking what you have to say on board...it's tripe and xenophobic!

We are in dire economic times and money is scare but even if it were not taxpayers mony has to be spent sensibly and to where it can be used to best effect.

Welsh should be made available as an optional subject in Schools but other than that it should not be provided for other than on a commercial basis

In addition we should not be providing material or translation service for any other languages other than on a cost basis

If someone wants a utility bill in Welsh. Fine but they pay for any additonal dcosts in doing so

If someone wants a translater in a Court to translate from English to Polish fine but they pay for it

We are in dire economic times and money is scare but even if it were not taxpayers mony has to be spent sensibly and to where it can be used to best effect.

Welsh should be made available as an optional subject in Schools but other than that it should not be provided for other than on a commercial basis

In addition we should not be providing material or translation service for any other languages other than on a cost basis

If someone wants a utility bill in Welsh. Fine but they pay for any additonal dcosts in doing so

If someone wants a translater in a Court to translate from English to Polish fine but they pay for it

*1967 Labour, apologies

BobnotWelshevans: well you better get your purse out then as it costs a lot more printing in English. Make it simple then, can't resource both, then don't print in either...that'll be cheaper. Welsh speakers have been on these isles a lot longer than English speakers; they pay their taxes and should get the same rights!

Nothing worse than the BNP loving, UKIP voting anti-anything Welsh brigade.

cymrostudent wrote:
Nothing worse than the BNP loving, UKIP voting anti-anything Welsh brigade.

Yes because the BNP and UKIP are synonymous with everything Welsh? . . .

Bobevans is very nearly right in his assessment of what could be done, and I don't think Llanmartinangel is one to usually comment without consideration or in haste.

National identity is a sensitive one, and I fully understand feelings of abandonment. But when you strip it back to the bare bones and wipe the vaseline from the lens, this is about tradition. But tradition will not put food in your belly or help you compete in business.

OK then, let's keep the tradition, bobevans says let's have it as an option in schools. That's how I had it, and I think that's great. We'll keep that.

Next up is English costing a lot to print in Wales. This is because the Welsh are smart and wish to maximise opportunities to trade, and make business here desirable and convenient.

I don't see a problem with printing both, it doesn't have to cost any extra right now, and will be even less of an issue in the computer literate generations to come.

I don't think it would be too difficult to have a service where one phone call would action a request for all paperwork to be generated in the customers selected language, forevermore or until further notice.

I must admit that my own bank offers online banking for greater control, convenience and to cut admin costs, yet they still send the paper. There is no need.

Anyway, keep the tradition, but not the foolish pride.

P C Neilson wrote:

cymrostudent wrote:
Nothing worse than the BNP loving, UKIP voting anti-anything Welsh brigade.

Yes because the BNP and UKIP are synonymous with everything Welsh? . . .

Bobevans is very nearly right in his assessment of what could be done, and I don't think Llanmartinangel is one to usually comment without consideration or in haste.

National identity is a sensitive one, and I fully understand feelings of abandonment. But when you strip it back to the bare bones and wipe the vaseline from the lens, this is about tradition. But tradition will not put food in your belly or help you compete in business.

OK then, let's keep the tradition, bobevans says let's have it as an option in schools. That's how I had it, and I think that's great. We'll keep that.

Next up is English costing a lot to print in Wales. This is because the Welsh are smart and wish to maximise opportunities to trade, and make business here desirable and convenient.

I don't see a problem with printing both, it doesn't have to cost any extra right now, and will be even less of an issue in the computer literate generations to come.

I don't think it would be too difficult to have a service where one phone call would action a request for all paperwork to be generated in the customers selected language, forevermore or until further notice.

I must admit that my own bank offers online banking for greater control, convenience and to cut admin costs, yet they still send the paper. There is no need.

Anyway, keep the tradition, but not the foolish pride.

That's what I mean...they hate anything Welsh...it tears away from britishness. Like you said, hopefully it'll cost less soon due to the digital age, but why should Welsh speakers have to pay more in their own country for bills in their own language? If English speakers were told they had to (that includes myself) we'd go mad. Welsh and English speakers both deserve equality in Wales. I don't know why people prefer it as an option as cost wise it doesn't cost a great deal more to educate all in English medium schools...otherwise you might as well put all subjects into the same category...all as options...I bet the children would love to pick all their subjects.

cymrostudent wrote:

P C Neilson wrote:

cymrostudent wrote:
Nothing worse than the BNP loving, UKIP voting anti-anything Welsh brigade.

Yes because the BNP and UKIP are synonymous with everything Welsh? . . .

Bobevans is very nearly right in his assessment of what could be done, and I don't think Llanmartinangel is one to usually comment without consideration or in haste.

National identity is a sensitive one, and I fully understand feelings of abandonment. But when you strip it back to the bare bones and wipe the vaseline from the lens, this is about tradition. But tradition will not put food in your belly or help you compete in business.

OK then, let's keep the tradition, bobevans says let's have it as an option in schools. That's how I had it, and I think that's great. We'll keep that.

Next up is English costing a lot to print in Wales. This is because the Welsh are smart and wish to maximise opportunities to trade, and make business here desirable and convenient.

I don't see a problem with printing both, it doesn't have to cost any extra right now, and will be even less of an issue in the computer literate generations to come.

I don't think it would be too difficult to have a service where one phone call would action a request for all paperwork to be generated in the customers selected language, forevermore or until further notice.

I must admit that my own bank offers online banking for greater control, convenience and to cut admin costs, yet they still send the paper. There is no need.

Anyway, keep the tradition, but not the foolish pride.

That's what I mean...they hate anything Welsh...it tears away from britishness. Like you said, hopefully it'll cost less soon due to the digital age, but why should Welsh speakers have to pay more in their own country for bills in their own language? If English speakers were told they had to (that includes myself) we'd go mad. Welsh and English speakers both deserve equality in Wales. I don't know why people prefer it as an option as cost wise it doesn't cost a great deal more to educate all in English medium schools...otherwise you might as well put all subjects into the same category...all as options...I bet the children would love to pick all their subjects.

I can only think that it must be a result of not having the 'right' people in the 'right' jobs, having the 'right' discussions to action the 'right' solution.

Sometimes the simplicity of the overlooked solution baffles me. This is not a futuristic dream, this is simple stuff here. If there is an office a phone an email address or a website then that is all the tools needed. No excuse. This should have already happened.

Of course someone will want to get paid, and mess it all up for us.

Sometimes I despair at how short sighted people are, dog poo police, free parking, and now I hear that Cardiff are getting the incinerator. Well done morons, now we still get the pollution you were so bothered about, but not the money!

I would be more pro active myself, but they would work me out very quickly and devour me.

That, and also I'm quite lazy.