Kicking a dog when it's down (From South Wales Argus)

In the interest of accuracy, and as a regular reader and steady contributor, I am struggling to recall a single occasion where I have ever read an attack on the elderly, sick or disabled by ANY commentator on here. It's entirely possible I missed one but 'many'? I think not. As for 'Fascist and Nazi propaganda', really? In a country where it is still possible, even after benefit changes to receive £26K p.a. without getting out of bed, the equivalent of around £40K gross for someone working, some robust debate on the 'fairness' of that is surely just freedom of speech? (which, incidentally, our grandparents also fought and died for). And yes the issues are complex and yes there are both deserving and phoney claimants, just as there are honest wealthy people who are all pilloried as greedy tax evaders. It's called opinion and not all of it is either informed or balanced, but that's life.

There are people who cannot get out of bed, hence the allowance. Fairness by being ethical, moral and compassionate/caring is helping those most vulnerable, is the measure of any civilised society, once you start asking the sick and elderly vulnerable to justify living in cash terms we cease being civilised. Tomorrow it could be you me or any other reader needing that help or our relatives,will you still demand they justify help then ?

Less than 5% of all benefit claimants are screwingthe system, that statistic comes from the Audit offices and the DWP itself,yet, benefit reductions and cust/removals affected 16% anyone with half an eye on statistics will tell you vulnerable are paying the price, not the fraudsters.

Play around with terms all you like but scrounger terminology ALWAYS gets directed at the wrong people,this government doesn't care who it cuts support too, it is a numbers game,and frankly that is uncivilised and hateful as well as uncaring.

Why make the many, pay for the crimes of the few ? this blanket painting of everyone is the same is wrong. Daily Mail/hate media carp and the ignorant.

http : // benefitscroungingscu
m. blogspot. co. uk/

Get facts.....

its not the sick or the disabled we have a problem with the vast majority of claimants are swinging the lead to ill to get out of bed but can run a marathon or box on sky tv

There is no 'Vast majority' swinging any lead, the DWP says 5%, so, 95% are not. I think more than a few here are just anti anyone getting benefits. Every adult in this country has claimed them, if you ever got married had children, or had parents bringing you up, went to school, were unemployed etc, benefits were claimed, so that makes you a scrounger too. No need to adopt an immoral high ground just because you don't claim at present. When you retire or get ill, you will be claiming the same as anyone else, and insisting you paid in for it, so did many claiming now.

Mervyn James wrote:
There are people who cannot get out of bed, hence the allowance. Fairness by being ethical, moral and compassionate/caring is helping those most vulnerable, is the measure of any civilised society, once you start asking the sick and elderly vulnerable to justify living in cash terms we cease being civilised. Tomorrow it could be you me or any other reader needing that help or our relatives,will you still demand they justify help then ?

Less than 5% of all benefit claimants are screwingthe system, that statistic comes from the Audit offices and the DWP itself,yet, benefit reductions and cust/removals affected 16% anyone with half an eye on statistics will tell you vulnerable are paying the price, not the fraudsters.

Play around with terms all you like but scrounger terminology ALWAYS gets directed at the wrong people,this government doesn't care who it cuts support too, it is a numbers game,and frankly that is uncivilised and hateful as well as uncaring.

Why make the many, pay for the crimes of the few ? this blanket painting of everyone is the same is wrong. Daily Mail/hate media carp and the ignorant.

Not disputing your 'facts', rather was commenting on the hysterical language in your letter and your mania for posting things no-one actually said.

It is exactly what is IMPLIED, to me that is the same thing. It's just an thinly-veiled excuse to have a go at everyone. It's the politics of envy and the rhetoric of hate.

Cuts are not hysterical they are fact too. 'Vast majority' implies most or near all does it not ? or did I make that up too ? It is these posts I respond to as misleading, wrong and hateful.

I fink dat LLanmartin Angel, and Scrap the WAG is right.

I reads in da Daily Mail and da Son all about them Bennyfit people.

All of dem aint really ill, day is swinging da lead and I nose of a family all on da dole who drives a Rolls Royce as a 200 inch plasma with sky and takes 5 hollydays a year to Las Vagus.

Day deserves all da stick day gets

Llanmartinangel wrote:
In the interest of accuracy, and as a regular reader and steady contributor, I am struggling to recall a single occasion where I have ever read an attack on the elderly, sick or disabled by ANY commentator on here. It's entirely possible I missed one but 'many'? I think not. As for 'Fascist and Nazi propaganda', really? In a country where it is still possible, even after benefit changes to receive £26K p.a. without getting out of bed, the equivalent of around £40K gross for someone working, some robust debate on the 'fairness' of that is surely just freedom of speech? (which, incidentally, our grandparents also fought and died for). And yes the issues are complex and yes there are both deserving and phoney claimants, just as there are honest wealthy people who are all pilloried as greedy tax evaders. It's called opinion and not all of it is either informed or balanced, but that's life.

'I am struggling to recall a single occasion where I have ever read an attack on the elderly, sick or disabled by ANY commentator on here'.

Then you have not been paying attention Martin. I suggest you read some of Bob Evans comments amongst others, off course if you agree with the disparaging comments on here about people on benefits who are mostly elderly, sick and disabled then you may not see them as an attack.

scraptheWAG wrote:
its not the sick or the disabled we have a problem with the vast majority of claimants are swinging the lead to ill to get out of bed but can run a marathon or box on sky tv

The Governments own figures say there is 0.7% benefit fraud.

I hope you never need any help.

It is certainly NOT a 'vast majority', these critics need shutting up, they cause a lot of real damage to vulnerable and sick people. Interesting the government thinks it is LESS than the DWP does.... but why do they still encourage these hate messages and attacks on ALL benefit claimants ?

Ministers like IDS need to be charged in court for human rights abuses. Those who support his view too, as breaking the discrimination law.

Pitting one neighbour against another is despicable behaviour by any government, and again, exactly what the Nazi's did. 1100 sick and disabled people have died since the cuts to allowances and draconian assessments have taken place, it is a culling of the most vulnerable in our society, NOT jailing the 'vast majority' of fraudsters.

I agree with Merv IDS should be charged with incitement to hatred, on some of his rhetoric. I predict the next attack will come on the low paid claiming 'In work' benefits .

60% of benefits are paid to people in work, people who work very hard but are very poorly paid by the British Employer ( the worst in the world ), and need tax credits etc to have any sort of standard of living.

These are on the increase as people who had good well paid jobs, but were made redundant now take on low wage poor quality jobs, and claim tax credits etc. Hence the increase in employment and increase in welfare.

The working poor - your next mark my words

Howie' wrote:

Llanmartinangel wrote:
In the interest of accuracy, and as a regular reader and steady contributor, I am struggling to recall a single occasion where I have ever read an attack on the elderly, sick or disabled by ANY commentator on here. It's entirely possible I missed one but 'many'? I think not. As for 'Fascist and Nazi propaganda', really? In a country where it is still possible, even after benefit changes to receive £26K p.a. without getting out of bed, the equivalent of around £40K gross for someone working, some robust debate on the 'fairness' of that is surely just freedom of speech? (which, incidentally, our grandparents also fought and died for). And yes the issues are complex and yes there are both deserving and phoney claimants, just as there are honest wealthy people who are all pilloried as greedy tax evaders. It's called opinion and not all of it is either informed or balanced, but that's life.

'I am struggling to recall a single occasion where I have ever read an attack on the elderly, sick or disabled by ANY commentator on here'.

Then you have not been paying attention Martin. I suggest you read some of Bob Evans comments amongst others, off course if you agree with the disparaging comments on here about people on benefits who are mostly elderly, sick and disabled then you may not see them as an attack.

I don't agree with attacks on people on benefits if the need is genuine but it does strike me as odd that Mervyn has been known to blame Eastern Europeans and immigrants for all our ills and the bandies terms like fascist and nazi about. It is true I have read robust opinion about people who are working the system I.e not in genuine need and, whilst the numbers may be small (although god knows how the DWP can be that accurate), then it's free speech and fair comment. On a seperate note, where someone can quote me on disparaging the old, sick or disabled then feel free to try.

Mr Angry wrote:
I fink dat LLanmartin Angel, and Scrap the WAG is right.

I reads in da Daily Mail and da Son all about them Bennyfit people.

All of dem aint really ill, day is swinging da lead and I nose of a family all on da dole who drives a Rolls Royce as a 200 inch plasma with sky and takes 5 hollydays a year to Las Vagus.

Day deserves all da stick day gets

Well that's kind of amusing in a schoolboy sort of way but on balance I think Michael Macintyre need not be looking worryingly over his shoulder just yet.

Its called satire, and the truth hurts sometimes.

Mr Angry wrote:
Its called satire, and the truth hurts sometimes.

Well if you learn how to do 'satire' any time soon you'll be sure to let us all know won't you.

Its obvious you dont know

Mervyn James wrote:
There is no 'Vast majority' swinging any lead, the DWP says 5%, so, 95% are not. I think more than a few here are just anti anyone getting benefits. Every adult in this country has claimed them, if you ever got married had children, or had parents bringing you up, went to school, were unemployed etc, benefits were claimed, so that makes you a scrounger too. No need to adopt an immoral high ground just because you don't claim at present. When you retire or get ill, you will be claiming the same as anyone else, and insisting you paid in for it, so did many claiming now.

That figure is the number caught making fradulant claims.

A good indication of the amount of fraud is that 25% have dropped their claims when asked to attend an assesment a further 25% have been found to have nothing at all wrong with them when assessed. Another 25% although having some minor incapacity have been found perfectly fit to work

So I make that 75%

Another scam is Special needs school children almost everyother child apparently has special needs which is somewhat strange. Are we seriouisly to belive that we have 5 times more children with special needs than europe has ?

You have gone to far this time, I take great offence and resent what you have just said.

I am the father of a 'Special needs' 11 year old child suffering from Aspergers syndrome.

Anyone who hass any knowlage of this condition (so that excludes you) will know that such a child can be a handful and I mean a real problem if a routine is changed or cerain things aren't as they should be, and needs to be watched 24hours a day as they have no sense of danger.

I sir am NOT scaming and resent your implication. My son has been extensivley examined by medical experts who confirm this.

Your ignorance is amazing I await your full apology.

Mr Evans you have gone to far on this occasion, I am the father of an 11 year old boy suffering from Aspergers, anyone with any knowlage of this condtion - so that excludes you - will tell you that anyone suffering from it can be a real handful if things aren't a certain way, or if a routine is changed in anyway, and have to be watched 24 hours a day.

My Son was examined by medical experts who confirmed his condition so I AM NOT SCAMING and resent any suggestion that I am.

Your ignorance is quite staggering, I await your apology .

apologies for posting twice, I have a problem with my computer wasnt sure if first posting went through

Llanmartinangel wrote:

Howie' wrote:

Llanmartinangel wrote:
In the interest of accuracy, and as a regular reader and steady contributor, I am struggling to recall a single occasion where I have ever read an attack on the elderly, sick or disabled by ANY commentator on here. It's entirely possible I missed one but 'many'? I think not. As for 'Fascist and Nazi propaganda', really? In a country where it is still possible, even after benefit changes to receive £26K p.a. without getting out of bed, the equivalent of around £40K gross for someone working, some robust debate on the 'fairness' of that is surely just freedom of speech? (which, incidentally, our grandparents also fought and died for). And yes the issues are complex and yes there are both deserving and phoney claimants, just as there are honest wealthy people who are all pilloried as greedy tax evaders. It's called opinion and not all of it is either informed or balanced, but that's life.

'I am struggling to recall a single occasion where I have ever read an attack on the elderly, sick or disabled by ANY commentator on here'.

Then you have not been paying attention Martin. I suggest you read some of Bob Evans comments amongst others, off course if you agree with the disparaging comments on here about people on benefits who are mostly elderly, sick and disabled then you may not see them as an attack.

I don't agree with attacks on people on benefits if the need is genuine but it does strike me as odd that Mervyn has been known to blame Eastern Europeans and immigrants for all our ills and the bandies terms like fascist and nazi about. It is true I have read robust opinion about people who are working the system I.e not in genuine need and, whilst the numbers may be small (although god knows how the DWP can be that accurate), then it's free speech and fair comment. On a seperate note, where someone can quote me on disparaging the old, sick or disabled then feel free to try.

Not so. I blamed the ridiculous agreement the UK made with the equally ridiculous Europeans that allowed the floodgates to open to migrants, and our government that encouraged it on behalf of employers who exploited migrants to our disadvantage.

The very fact the low paid get allowances is an admittance the min wage is poverty pay. Any disparity is down to the fact the subsistence level that determines benefits, is an accepted humane and minimum people can expect to survive on, without extras, the min wage is way below subsistence level. So pits the worst off against the low paid. Anyone working today will tell you the real facts of wage life.

For every single fraud caught 6 genuine cases seriously lose out.. Benefit assessment is strict, it always was. The problem this time around is they are not disclosing any criteria for ELIGIBLITY, so no-one can know if they are entitled or not to claim.

In the 1960s, to claim any allowance you had to prove you were seriously ill by the DSS Dr (Not yours), had no bed to sleep on or table to eat off, if you had a carpet, a fridge or a TV you were turned down flat.

Who wants our sick and vulnerable people to face that again ? Cameron/IDS said 'we want the money to go to those most in need', so they gave the millionaires a tax break ! They also allow billions a year to be sent to Europe by migrants to families who did not live here.

Why not tax that and stop sending huge amounts of money from Britain to prop up Europeans. Judging by the amounts I see these people cannot be paying tax anywhere !

Mr Angry wrote:
Mr Evans you have gone to far on this occasion, I am the father of an 11 year old boy suffering from Aspergers, anyone with any knowlage of this condtion - so that excludes you - will tell you that anyone suffering from it can be a real handful if things aren't a certain way, or if a routine is changed in anyway, and have to be watched 24 hours a day.

My Son was examined by medical experts who confirmed his condition so I AM NOT SCAMING and resent any suggestion that I am.

Your ignorance is quite staggering, I await your apology .

Seems we have something in common Mr Angry, I have a son with Autism too, so can acquaint with the issues presented. 24/7 and 365 days a year yes, how many do those hours here I wonder, and for no wage mostly.

No apology from BoB Evans - theres a suprise. A man who's been wrong so many times he should be used to it by now.

Mr Angry wrote:
No apology from BoB Evans - theres a suprise. A man who's been wrong so many times he should be used to it by now.

He's not man enough to apologise Mr A, he lives in his own little fantasy world making up figures to try and get people to listen to his twisted views.