Thatcher legacy still haunts us

FOLLOWING the disclosure of cabinet papers under the 30-year rule, why anyone should be shocked or surprised at the lengths the Thatcher government went to destroy the NUM and a large part of British manufacturing is a surprise in itself.

Their intentions were hardly a well kept secret. Their plans and intentions were there for all to see and read in the form of the Ridley Report prepared by Nicholas Ridley MP in response and retribution for the humiliation of the Heath government brought down by the NUM strike of 1974. In many ways the miners walked into a well laid trap.

The plan contained details of how the Tories would provoke and confront unions in less critical industries (British Leyland, British Steel, remember them?) before ensuring conditions were right to take on the miners. Having first slashed benefit payments ensuring the families of strikers would suffer real hardship, the conditions included provoking a conflict in summer when demand for coal fired energy was low and coal stocks were high. Many power stations were converted to more expensive oil fired boilers. There was also a large supply of unemployed and non union drivers prepared to cross picket lines and move coal stocks along with a mobile police force set up to deal with picketing. The plan was prepared and conducted with military precision.

As with everything Margaret Thatcher did, public opinion will be divided. Many see her as the Iron Lady who tamed the unions and saved the country. (Many of those same people happily invest in our overseas competitors). Those less blinkered, myself included lament the loss of hundreds of thousands of skilled manufacturing jobs this country has lost to other countries whose workers have fewer rights and safeguards than ours. The biggest losers were our youngsters who no longer have access to many highly skilled and worthwhile apprenticeships in trades and industries where we were once world leaders.

Councillor Allan Morris Lliswerry Ward Newport

Comments (76)

Please log in to enable comment sorting

2:48pm Tue 14 Jan 14

_Bryan_ says...

To put it simply, the unions became too powerful and their leadership became misguided about their role. Instead of seeking what was best for the workers, they thought they should be running the country instead of the duly elected parliament.

Thatcher's legacy was a Britain freed from the shackles of union leaders who had stopped fighting for better rights for their members and instead used the union movement for their own purposes, lining their pockets, satisfying their need for fame and pursuing their "loony left" political policies.

Recent disclosures have shown that Arthur Scargill has hardly covered himself in glory, to the extent that it appears that he used the NUM as his own personal gravy train. This has included living rent-free for at least 20 years in an expensive Centrla London location despite retiring from the union. He is also being sued by the union in an unrelated matter for £100,000. On top of that, he attempted to use a policy that he apprently despised to buy his flat on the cheap. Despite all that, I doubt very much that we will see people singing "ding dong" upon his demise.
To put it simply, the unions became too powerful and their leadership became misguided about their role. Instead of seeking what was best for the workers, they thought they should be running the country instead of the duly elected parliament. Thatcher's legacy was a Britain freed from the shackles of union leaders who had stopped fighting for better rights for their members and instead used the union movement for their own purposes, lining their pockets, satisfying their need for fame and pursuing their "loony left" political policies. Recent disclosures have shown that Arthur Scargill has hardly covered himself in glory, to the extent that it appears that he used the NUM as his own personal gravy train. This has included living rent-free for at least 20 years in an expensive Centrla London location despite retiring from the union. He is also being sued by the union in an unrelated matter for £100,000. On top of that, he attempted to use a policy that he apprently despised to buy his flat on the cheap. Despite all that, I doubt very much that we will see people singing "ding dong" upon his demise. _Bryan_
  • Score: 13

3:10pm Tue 14 Jan 14

Llanmartinangel says...

'Despite all that, I doubt very much that we will see people singing "ding dong" upon his demise.'

Oh I'm sure I'll be able to truck out a verse or two.
'Despite all that, I doubt very much that we will see people singing "ding dong" upon his demise.' Oh I'm sure I'll be able to truck out a verse or two. Llanmartinangel
  • Score: 3

3:38pm Tue 14 Jan 14

Thinking heads says...

The facts are out she has no cloak to hide to hide behind she was bad very bad.
to the point of vindictive.
The facts are out she has no cloak to hide to hide behind she was bad very bad. to the point of vindictive. Thinking heads
  • Score: -2

3:46pm Tue 14 Jan 14

BassalegCountyFan says...

100% agreed with Allan Morris' letter.

Thatcher demonised good, honest people as the 'enemy within', used the tactics of a third world dictator in sending in a militarized police force to crush discontent with her policies, destroyed our industries and transformed us from the workshop of the world to the pawn shop of the world by flogging off most our publically owned institutions to the cheapest bidder.

Thatcher's legacy was a poisonous one - her immoral ideology based on 'greed is good' turbo-capitalism over public wellbeing and cooperation goes against the grain of what Britain is about.
100% agreed with Allan Morris' letter. Thatcher demonised good, honest people as the 'enemy within', used the tactics of a third world dictator in sending in a militarized police force to crush discontent with her policies, destroyed our industries and transformed us from the workshop of the world to the pawn shop of the world by flogging off most our publically owned institutions to the cheapest bidder. Thatcher's legacy was a poisonous one - her immoral ideology based on 'greed is good' turbo-capitalism over public wellbeing and cooperation goes against the grain of what Britain is about. BassalegCountyFan
  • Score: -3

3:59pm Tue 14 Jan 14

BassalegCountyFan says...

Llanmartinangel wrote:
'Despite all that, I doubt very much that we will see people singing "ding dong" upon his demise.'

Oh I'm sure I'll be able to truck out a verse or two.
The miners deserved better than Scargill, I'll admit he had his flaws, but at least he told the truth which is more than you can say for thatcher.

The likes of thatcher and mcgregor lied to the nation, and were willing to rub the name of the miners - in my opinion, the very best of British - through the dirt for the tory political agenda.

The newly released documents just confirm what we knew all along Arthur was right, thatcher was wrong.
[quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: 'Despite all that, I doubt very much that we will see people singing "ding dong" upon his demise.' Oh I'm sure I'll be able to truck out a verse or two.[/p][/quote]The miners deserved better than Scargill, I'll admit he had his flaws, but at least he told the truth which is more than you can say for thatcher. The likes of thatcher and mcgregor lied to the nation, and were willing to rub the name of the miners - in my opinion, the very best of British - through the dirt for the tory political agenda. The newly released documents just confirm what we knew all along Arthur was right, thatcher was wrong. BassalegCountyFan
  • Score: -4

6:36pm Tue 14 Jan 14

Spinflight says...

Framing the miners strike as a battle between the tories and old labour is correct, however missing out any mention of the greed, corruption and destruction that the labour and trade union movement laid upon British industry for twenty years prior makes your letter seem somewhat one eyed.

Then as now labour represented union officials and highly paid union workers, not the people as a whole. Then as now the tories represented the wealthy who might donate to their coffers, not the people as a whole.

The pitiful battles between the unions and the tories had only one winner, though the nation as a whole lost considerably.

ukipnewport.com
Framing the miners strike as a battle between the tories and old labour is correct, however missing out any mention of the greed, corruption and destruction that the labour and trade union movement laid upon British industry for twenty years prior makes your letter seem somewhat one eyed. Then as now labour represented union officials and highly paid union workers, not the people as a whole. Then as now the tories represented the wealthy who might donate to their coffers, not the people as a whole. The pitiful battles between the unions and the tories had only one winner, though the nation as a whole lost considerably. ukipnewport.com Spinflight
  • Score: 5

7:16pm Tue 14 Jan 14

Magor says...

More manufacturing jobs were lost under the last labour government than underThatcher.It surprised me at first but the facts are there.Plus you only have to look round here what closed under labour.I kept my job under Thatcher but got made redundant twice under Blair.
More manufacturing jobs were lost under the last labour government than underThatcher.It surprised me at first but the facts are there.Plus you only have to look round here what closed under labour.I kept my job under Thatcher but got made redundant twice under Blair. Magor
  • Score: 12

7:30pm Tue 14 Jan 14

endthelies says...

BassalegCountyFan wrote:
Llanmartinangel wrote:
'Despite all that, I doubt very much that we will see people singing "ding dong" upon his demise.'

Oh I'm sure I'll be able to truck out a verse or two.
The miners deserved better than Scargill, I'll admit he had his flaws, but at least he told the truth which is more than you can say for thatcher.

The likes of thatcher and mcgregor lied to the nation, and were willing to rub the name of the miners - in my opinion, the very best of British - through the dirt for the tory political agenda.

The newly released documents just confirm what we knew all along Arthur was right, thatcher was wrong.
I agree with Both BCF and Alan Morris. The facts are there for all to read so there's no point in denying the truth and the truth was she was a vindictive individual who only cared about getting rid of the unions, she cared not one jot about the people who lost their jobs, homes and pride in the aftermath of her plundering heavy industry in the UK. Arthur Scargill did indeed have his faults but he was nothing compared to Thatcher and her cronies. The miners stayed out because they were trying to keep their jobs. I'm also sure the women who lived through that time of having no food, small children to feed and unable to pay the rent or mortgage would today still not defend Maggies policies
[quote][p][bold]BassalegCountyFan[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: 'Despite all that, I doubt very much that we will see people singing "ding dong" upon his demise.' Oh I'm sure I'll be able to truck out a verse or two.[/p][/quote]The miners deserved better than Scargill, I'll admit he had his flaws, but at least he told the truth which is more than you can say for thatcher. The likes of thatcher and mcgregor lied to the nation, and were willing to rub the name of the miners - in my opinion, the very best of British - through the dirt for the tory political agenda. The newly released documents just confirm what we knew all along Arthur was right, thatcher was wrong.[/p][/quote]I agree with Both BCF and Alan Morris. The facts are there for all to read so there's no point in denying the truth and the truth was she was a vindictive individual who only cared about getting rid of the unions, she cared not one jot about the people who lost their jobs, homes and pride in the aftermath of her plundering heavy industry in the UK. Arthur Scargill did indeed have his faults but he was nothing compared to Thatcher and her cronies. The miners stayed out because they were trying to keep their jobs. I'm also sure the women who lived through that time of having no food, small children to feed and unable to pay the rent or mortgage would today still not defend Maggies policies endthelies
  • Score: -6

8:45pm Tue 14 Jan 14

scraptheWAG says...

can all the "vote labour father voted labour answer this" in 1997 newport was a average town it was under labour that it fell to the absolute pitts of the earth?
can all the "vote labour father voted labour answer this" in 1997 newport was a average town it was under labour that it fell to the absolute pitts of the earth? scraptheWAG
  • Score: 4

10:17pm Tue 14 Jan 14

endthelies says...

scraptheWAG wrote:
can all the "vote labour father voted labour answer this" in 1997 newport was a average town it was under labour that it fell to the absolute pitts of the earth?
Tredegar was also a lovely town in the eighties, with lovely local shops, a park to be proud of and, most importantly, people with money to spend. Then Maggie closed the mines and it all went away, very, very, quickly. I don't know Newport at all so I can't reasonably make an argument about it but I do know my hometown and I can only go by what I've seen in my nearly 50 years on this earth. I have never voted Labour because my father voted Labour because my father died when I was 9 years old, therefore, my opinions are my own. Your argument on that score means nothing and its insulting to anyone who won't vote tory because they have no faith in them. Do you expect people to vote Tory because you try and put them down for not doing so? To vote is a right that we all have and who you vote for is your own personal choice.
[quote][p][bold]scraptheWAG[/bold] wrote: can all the "vote labour father voted labour answer this" in 1997 newport was a average town it was under labour that it fell to the absolute pitts of the earth?[/p][/quote]Tredegar was also a lovely town in the eighties, with lovely local shops, a park to be proud of and, most importantly, people with money to spend. Then Maggie closed the mines and it all went away, very, very, quickly. I don't know Newport at all so I can't reasonably make an argument about it but I do know my hometown and I can only go by what I've seen in my nearly 50 years on this earth. I have never voted Labour because my father voted Labour because my father died when I was 9 years old, therefore, my opinions are my own. Your argument on that score means nothing and its insulting to anyone who won't vote tory because they have no faith in them. Do you expect people to vote Tory because you try and put them down for not doing so? To vote is a right that we all have and who you vote for is your own personal choice. endthelies
  • Score: 2

8:12am Wed 15 Jan 14

pwlldu says...

Correct Magor says...
More manufacturing jobs were lost under the last labour government than under Thatcher. Also more retail jobs were lost under labour. While Thatcher destroyed Welsh heavy industry so her right wing cronies could invest in foreign heavy industry companies like the rise in TATA steel. This show English governments don't know whats best for Wales. Wage not dole I say, no matter how much it cost to keep people in jobs. Woolworths needed a loan from one of the bailed out banks but was turned down. Thatcher's coronies had so many fingers and money in foreign pies they had to privatise so many British companies.
Correct Magor says... More manufacturing jobs were lost under the last labour government than under Thatcher. Also more retail jobs were lost under labour. While Thatcher destroyed Welsh heavy industry so her right wing cronies could invest in foreign heavy industry companies like the rise in TATA steel. This show English governments don't know whats best for Wales. Wage not dole I say, no matter how much it cost to keep people in jobs. Woolworths needed a loan from one of the bailed out banks but was turned down. Thatcher's coronies had so many fingers and money in foreign pies they had to privatise so many British companies. pwlldu
  • Score: 2

8:15am Wed 15 Jan 14

pwlldu says...

My father was a striking NUM worker who only wanted to work and provide for his family a good life and education. He started his own company after he was made redundant, but a few went on the sick and disabillity as they were too old to find new work. Most people who lose their jobs spend about 2 years on the dole.
My father was a striking NUM worker who only wanted to work and provide for his family a good life and education. He started his own company after he was made redundant, but a few went on the sick and disabillity as they were too old to find new work. Most people who lose their jobs spend about 2 years on the dole. pwlldu
  • Score: 2

9:14am Wed 15 Jan 14

Llanmartinangel says...

'no matter how much it cost to keep people in jobs'.
The economics of the loony bin. Typical Plaid supporter.
'no matter how much it cost to keep people in jobs'. The economics of the loony bin. Typical Plaid supporter. Llanmartinangel
  • Score: 13

10:43am Wed 15 Jan 14

Mr Angry says...

pwlldu wrote:
My father was a striking NUM worker who only wanted to work and provide for his family a good life and education. He started his own company after he was made redundant, but a few went on the sick and disabillity as they were too old to find new work. Most people who lose their jobs spend about 2 years on the dole.
My father was made redundant during the demise of the heavy industries, he was 61, and never been unemployed in his life.The Job Centre told him not to bother applying for jobs as he was 'unemployable'. Despite this he applied for any job he thought he could do, only to be knocked back, time and time again by rejection after rejection from those employers who had the manners to reply to his application - the vast majority never even bothered to reply.
I belive the frustration and sense of hoplessness affected his health badly and contributed to his early passing at 69.
Vote Tory after that - never.
[quote][p][bold]pwlldu[/bold] wrote: My father was a striking NUM worker who only wanted to work and provide for his family a good life and education. He started his own company after he was made redundant, but a few went on the sick and disabillity as they were too old to find new work. Most people who lose their jobs spend about 2 years on the dole.[/p][/quote]My father was made redundant during the demise of the heavy industries, he was 61, and never been unemployed in his life.The Job Centre told him not to bother applying for jobs as he was 'unemployable'. Despite this he applied for any job he thought he could do, only to be knocked back, time and time again by rejection after rejection from those employers who had the manners to reply to his application - the vast majority never even bothered to reply. I belive the frustration and sense of hoplessness affected his health badly and contributed to his early passing at 69. Vote Tory after that - never. Mr Angry
  • Score: -1

3:55pm Wed 15 Jan 14

pwlldu says...

Mr Angry says... I share you pain.
Mr Angry says... I share you pain. pwlldu
  • Score: -1

3:56pm Wed 15 Jan 14

pwlldu says...

Mr Angry says... I share your pain. The Tories has done nothing for Wales.
Mr Angry says... I share your pain. The Tories has done nothing for Wales. pwlldu
  • Score: -2

4:28pm Wed 15 Jan 14

Llanmartinangel says...

pwlldu wrote:
Mr Angry says... I share your pain. The Tories has done nothing for Wales.
Whereas Labour and Plaid have made it the land of milk and honey it is now. Errr, hang on a second.
[quote][p][bold]pwlldu[/bold] wrote: Mr Angry says... I share your pain. The Tories has done nothing for Wales.[/p][/quote]Whereas Labour and Plaid have made it the land of milk and honey it is now. Errr, hang on a second. Llanmartinangel
  • Score: 10

4:39pm Wed 15 Jan 14

endthelies says...

Llanmartinangel wrote:
'no matter how much it cost to keep people in jobs'.
The economics of the loony bin. Typical Plaid supporter.
But Maggie's pit closures had hardly anything to do with unviable pits as I've said before and as is in the report. She wanted to overthrow the unions and made all those men redundant in order to do it. That's the crux of this. She didn't care about the communities she wrecked.
[quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: 'no matter how much it cost to keep people in jobs'. The economics of the loony bin. Typical Plaid supporter.[/p][/quote]But Maggie's pit closures had hardly anything to do with unviable pits as I've said before and as is in the report. She wanted to overthrow the unions and made all those men redundant in order to do it. That's the crux of this. She didn't care about the communities she wrecked. endthelies
  • Score: 0

5:14pm Wed 15 Jan 14

blackandamber says...

I suggest Councillor Morris takes of his red tinted glasses and look at the 1979 Conservative manifesto says and which they were ELECTED on with 44% of the vote. Decided by all the electorate at the BALLOT box something that the lions in the mining industry were denied by the donkey that lead them. And as you have mentioned the steel industry in which I worked for over 30+ years through The British Steel Corp. A privatised British Steel which I believe became a FTSE 100 company and Corus, and I know which companies were the best to work for. And just to finish Prime Minister Thatcher went on to win two more elections at the BALLOT box with more than 42% of the vote. Seems quite a lot of the electorate liked her for a long time.
I suggest Councillor Morris takes of his red tinted glasses and look at the 1979 Conservative manifesto says and which they were ELECTED on with 44% of the vote. Decided by all the electorate at the BALLOT box something that the lions in the mining industry were denied by the donkey that lead them. And as you have mentioned the steel industry in which I worked for over 30+ years through The British Steel Corp. A privatised British Steel which I believe became a FTSE 100 company and Corus, and I know which companies were the best to work for. And just to finish Prime Minister Thatcher went on to win two more elections at the BALLOT box with more than 42% of the vote. Seems quite a lot of the electorate liked her for a long time. blackandamber
  • Score: 5

6:59pm Wed 15 Jan 14

endthelies says...

That means 52 % didn't want her elected then.
That means 52 % didn't want her elected then. endthelies
  • Score: -4

7:07pm Wed 15 Jan 14

endthelies says...

blackandamber wrote:
I suggest Councillor Morris takes of his red tinted glasses and look at the 1979 Conservative manifesto says and which they were ELECTED on with 44% of the vote. Decided by all the electorate at the BALLOT box something that the lions in the mining industry were denied by the donkey that lead them. And as you have mentioned the steel industry in which I worked for over 30+ years through The British Steel Corp. A privatised British Steel which I believe became a FTSE 100 company and Corus, and I know which companies were the best to work for. And just to finish Prime Minister Thatcher went on to win two more elections at the BALLOT box with more than 42% of the vote. Seems quite a lot of the electorate liked her for a long time.
and after she was elected, she was thrown out of her party by her peers.
[quote][p][bold]blackandamber[/bold] wrote: I suggest Councillor Morris takes of his red tinted glasses and look at the 1979 Conservative manifesto says and which they were ELECTED on with 44% of the vote. Decided by all the electorate at the BALLOT box something that the lions in the mining industry were denied by the donkey that lead them. And as you have mentioned the steel industry in which I worked for over 30+ years through The British Steel Corp. A privatised British Steel which I believe became a FTSE 100 company and Corus, and I know which companies were the best to work for. And just to finish Prime Minister Thatcher went on to win two more elections at the BALLOT box with more than 42% of the vote. Seems quite a lot of the electorate liked her for a long time.[/p][/quote]and after she was elected, she was thrown out of her party by her peers. endthelies
  • Score: 3

7:26pm Wed 15 Jan 14

blackandamber says...

endthelies wrote:
That means 52 % didn't want her elected then.
42% of the people that voted.
[quote][p][bold]endthelies[/bold] wrote: That means 52 % didn't want her elected then.[/p][/quote]42% of the people that voted. blackandamber
  • Score: 3

7:29pm Wed 15 Jan 14

endthelies says...

blackandamber wrote:
endthelies wrote:
That means 52 % didn't want her elected then.
42% of the people that voted.
that still means 52% of the people that voted did not vote for her though.
[quote][p][bold]blackandamber[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]endthelies[/bold] wrote: That means 52 % didn't want her elected then.[/p][/quote]42% of the people that voted.[/p][/quote]that still means 52% of the people that voted did not vote for her though. endthelies
  • Score: -2

7:54pm Wed 15 Jan 14

scraptheWAG says...

Llanmartinangel wrote:
pwlldu wrote:
Mr Angry says... I share your pain. The Tories has done nothing for Wales.
Whereas Labour and Plaid have made it the land of milk and honey it is now. Errr, hang on a second.
you will never convince many not to vote for labour and to be fair if you were a benefit scrounger you would vote labour as well.
[quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pwlldu[/bold] wrote: Mr Angry says... I share your pain. The Tories has done nothing for Wales.[/p][/quote]Whereas Labour and Plaid have made it the land of milk and honey it is now. Errr, hang on a second.[/p][/quote]you will never convince many not to vote for labour and to be fair if you were a benefit scrounger you would vote labour as well. scraptheWAG
  • Score: -1

7:56pm Wed 15 Jan 14

blackandamber says...

endthelies wrote:
blackandamber wrote:
endthelies wrote:
That means 52 % didn't want her elected then.
42% of the people that voted.
that still means 52% of the people that voted did not vote for her though.
That's the problem of the people that don't vote not the ones that do.
[quote][p][bold]endthelies[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]blackandamber[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]endthelies[/bold] wrote: That means 52 % didn't want her elected then.[/p][/quote]42% of the people that voted.[/p][/quote]that still means 52% of the people that voted did not vote for her though.[/p][/quote]That's the problem of the people that don't vote not the ones that do. blackandamber
  • Score: 0

8:42pm Wed 15 Jan 14

Llanmartinangel says...

endthelies wrote:
Llanmartinangel wrote:
'no matter how much it cost to keep people in jobs'.
The economics of the loony bin. Typical Plaid supporter.
But Maggie's pit closures had hardly anything to do with unviable pits as I've said before and as is in the report. She wanted to overthrow the unions and made all those men redundant in order to do it. That's the crux of this. She didn't care about the communities she wrecked.
And that bears any relation to the post you quoted from me how exactly? He was saying people should be kept in jobs regardless of the cost. Even an idiot can work out that someone has to earn that subsidy first. But the word 'idiot' clearly rules out Plaid as they haven't quite reached the intellectual level of idiots yet.
[quote][p][bold]endthelies[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: 'no matter how much it cost to keep people in jobs'. The economics of the loony bin. Typical Plaid supporter.[/p][/quote]But Maggie's pit closures had hardly anything to do with unviable pits as I've said before and as is in the report. She wanted to overthrow the unions and made all those men redundant in order to do it. That's the crux of this. She didn't care about the communities she wrecked.[/p][/quote]And that bears any relation to the post you quoted from me how exactly? He was saying people should be kept in jobs regardless of the cost. Even an idiot can work out that someone has to earn that subsidy first. But the word 'idiot' clearly rules out Plaid as they haven't quite reached the intellectual level of idiots yet. Llanmartinangel
  • Score: 1

8:46pm Wed 15 Jan 14

endthelies says...

scraptheWAG wrote:
Llanmartinangel wrote:
pwlldu wrote:
Mr Angry says... I share your pain. The Tories has done nothing for Wales.
Whereas Labour and Plaid have made it the land of milk and honey it is now. Errr, hang on a second.
you will never convince many not to vote for labour and to be fair if you were a benefit scrounger you would vote labour as well.
I'm not a benefit scrounger and neither are lots of others who vote Labour. Take your trolling elsewhere please.
[quote][p][bold]scraptheWAG[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pwlldu[/bold] wrote: Mr Angry says... I share your pain. The Tories has done nothing for Wales.[/p][/quote]Whereas Labour and Plaid have made it the land of milk and honey it is now. Errr, hang on a second.[/p][/quote]you will never convince many not to vote for labour and to be fair if you were a benefit scrounger you would vote labour as well.[/p][/quote]I'm not a benefit scrounger and neither are lots of others who vote Labour. Take your trolling elsewhere please. endthelies
  • Score: 1

8:48pm Wed 15 Jan 14

endthelies says...

Llanmartinangel wrote:
endthelies wrote:
Llanmartinangel wrote:
'no matter how much it cost to keep people in jobs'.
The economics of the loony bin. Typical Plaid supporter.
But Maggie's pit closures had hardly anything to do with unviable pits as I've said before and as is in the report. She wanted to overthrow the unions and made all those men redundant in order to do it. That's the crux of this. She didn't care about the communities she wrecked.
And that bears any relation to the post you quoted from me how exactly? He was saying people should be kept in jobs regardless of the cost. Even an idiot can work out that someone has to earn that subsidy first. But the word 'idiot' clearly rules out Plaid as they haven't quite reached the intellectual level of idiots yet.
Because Maggies agenda had very little to do with the economics of keeping people in employment in viable pits and everything to do with destroying unions and not just the NUM. I realise now though that you were quoting from another post so apologies.
[quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]endthelies[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: 'no matter how much it cost to keep people in jobs'. The economics of the loony bin. Typical Plaid supporter.[/p][/quote]But Maggie's pit closures had hardly anything to do with unviable pits as I've said before and as is in the report. She wanted to overthrow the unions and made all those men redundant in order to do it. That's the crux of this. She didn't care about the communities she wrecked.[/p][/quote]And that bears any relation to the post you quoted from me how exactly? He was saying people should be kept in jobs regardless of the cost. Even an idiot can work out that someone has to earn that subsidy first. But the word 'idiot' clearly rules out Plaid as they haven't quite reached the intellectual level of idiots yet.[/p][/quote]Because Maggies agenda had very little to do with the economics of keeping people in employment in viable pits and everything to do with destroying unions and not just the NUM. I realise now though that you were quoting from another post so apologies. endthelies
  • Score: 2

8:53pm Wed 15 Jan 14

endthelies says...

blackandamber wrote:
endthelies wrote:
blackandamber wrote:
endthelies wrote:
That means 52 % didn't want her elected then.
42% of the people that voted.
that still means 52% of the people that voted did not vote for her though.
That's the problem of the people that don't vote not the ones that do.
You quotes 42% of voters voted Tory. the statistics of people who VOTED to be a 100 percent statistic, that means 52% of people who VOTED did not vote for her. Now if you said 42% of the whole population had voted for Maggie then that would be a different meaning altogether.
[quote][p][bold]blackandamber[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]endthelies[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]blackandamber[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]endthelies[/bold] wrote: That means 52 % didn't want her elected then.[/p][/quote]42% of the people that voted.[/p][/quote]that still means 52% of the people that voted did not vote for her though.[/p][/quote]That's the problem of the people that don't vote not the ones that do.[/p][/quote]You quotes 42% of voters voted Tory. the statistics of people who VOTED to be a 100 percent statistic, that means 52% of people who VOTED did not vote for her. Now if you said 42% of the whole population had voted for Maggie then that would be a different meaning altogether. endthelies
  • Score: -4

8:56pm Wed 15 Jan 14

endthelies says...

Sorry that didn't make much sense when I read it back, so I'll try it again. The statistics for voting adults would be a whole number. i.e 100%, so therefore 52% of VOTERS did not vote for Maggie.
Sorry that didn't make much sense when I read it back, so I'll try it again. The statistics for voting adults would be a whole number. i.e 100%, so therefore 52% of VOTERS did not vote for Maggie. endthelies
  • Score: -1

9:22pm Wed 15 Jan 14

blackandamber says...

endthelies wrote:
Sorry that didn't make much sense when I read it back, so I'll try it again. The statistics for voting adults would be a whole number. i.e 100%, so therefore 52% of VOTERS did not vote for Maggie.
An average of 25% of the electorate did not vote in 1979/83/87 elections.
[quote][p][bold]endthelies[/bold] wrote: Sorry that didn't make much sense when I read it back, so I'll try it again. The statistics for voting adults would be a whole number. i.e 100%, so therefore 52% of VOTERS did not vote for Maggie.[/p][/quote]An average of 25% of the electorate did not vote in 1979/83/87 elections. blackandamber
  • Score: -2

10:36am Thu 16 Jan 14

Mr Angry says...

endthelies wrote:
scraptheWAG wrote:
Llanmartinangel wrote:
pwlldu wrote: Mr Angry says... I share your pain. The Tories has done nothing for Wales.
Whereas Labour and Plaid have made it the land of milk and honey it is now. Errr, hang on a second.
you will never convince many not to vote for labour and to be fair if you were a benefit scrounger you would vote labour as well.
I'm not a benefit scrounger and neither are lots of others who vote Labour. Take your trolling elsewhere please.
Please define Benefit Scrounger , do you mean the biggest benefit bill , for pensions, or the next biggest , beneits paid to people in work, or the next biggest the disabled, or are you highlighting the 3% of the welfare bill that goes to the unemployed.

Please specify
[quote][p][bold]endthelies[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]scraptheWAG[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pwlldu[/bold] wrote: Mr Angry says... I share your pain. The Tories has done nothing for Wales.[/p][/quote]Whereas Labour and Plaid have made it the land of milk and honey it is now. Errr, hang on a second.[/p][/quote]you will never convince many not to vote for labour and to be fair if you were a benefit scrounger you would vote labour as well.[/p][/quote]I'm not a benefit scrounger and neither are lots of others who vote Labour. Take your trolling elsewhere please.[/p][/quote]Please define Benefit Scrounger , do you mean the biggest benefit bill , for pensions, or the next biggest , beneits paid to people in work, or the next biggest the disabled, or are you highlighting the 3% of the welfare bill that goes to the unemployed. Please specify Mr Angry
  • Score: 4

10:36am Thu 16 Jan 14

_Bryan_ says...

All this talk of ballot boxes reminded me of something. Way back in 1984, the NUM refused to ask its members whether they wanted to strike.

The union leadership took the decision without reference to the members and then used mob rule and peer pressure to enforce the decision. I can't say I know which way such a strike vote would have gone, but its telling that when the miners were finally given a vote on the matter a year later, the majority voted to return to work.
All this talk of ballot boxes reminded me of something. Way back in 1984, the NUM refused to ask its members whether they wanted to strike. The union leadership took the decision without reference to the members and then used mob rule and peer pressure to enforce the decision. I can't say I know which way such a strike vote would have gone, but its telling that when the miners were finally given a vote on the matter a year later, the majority voted to return to work. _Bryan_
  • Score: 2

2:56pm Thu 16 Jan 14

BassalegCountyFan says...

_Bryan_ wrote:
All this talk of ballot boxes reminded me of something. Way back in 1984, the NUM refused to ask its members whether they wanted to strike.

The union leadership took the decision without reference to the members and then used mob rule and peer pressure to enforce the decision. I can't say I know which way such a strike vote would have gone, but its telling that when the miners were finally given a vote on the matter a year later, the majority voted to return to work.
Those who returned to work in 1985 did so because they were starved into doing so. And actually, 93% of South Wales miners were still on strike in 1985. They were fighting not just for their jobs, not just for their rights at work, but for their communities.

And you mention 'mob rule' and intimidation - isn't that exactly what the tory government's tactics were? That's what the newly released documents suggest, although sadly the bbc tried to shine attention away from this by putting on a conveniently-timed Scargill-bashing programme.

The brutality of the police in the strike, and the government's plans to cover up truth were both disgraceful. http://www.theguardi
an.com/politics/2014
/jan/03/margaret-tha
tcher-secret-plan-ar
my-miners-strike

Even worse though was that the hard-working people who helped fuel the British economy and risked their lives for over a century to heat our homes were labelled as the 'enemy within'. The actions of the tories during the strike still shame our country.
[quote][p][bold]_Bryan_[/bold] wrote: All this talk of ballot boxes reminded me of something. Way back in 1984, the NUM refused to ask its members whether they wanted to strike. The union leadership took the decision without reference to the members and then used mob rule and peer pressure to enforce the decision. I can't say I know which way such a strike vote would have gone, but its telling that when the miners were finally given a vote on the matter a year later, the majority voted to return to work.[/p][/quote]Those who returned to work in 1985 did so because they were starved into doing so. And actually, 93% of South Wales miners were still on strike in 1985. They were fighting not just for their jobs, not just for their rights at work, but for their communities. And you mention 'mob rule' and intimidation - isn't that exactly what the tory government's tactics were? That's what the newly released documents suggest, although sadly the bbc tried to shine attention away from this by putting on a conveniently-timed Scargill-bashing programme. The brutality of the police in the strike, and the government's plans to cover up truth were both disgraceful. http://www.theguardi an.com/politics/2014 /jan/03/margaret-tha tcher-secret-plan-ar my-miners-strike Even worse though was that the hard-working people who helped fuel the British economy and risked their lives for over a century to heat our homes were labelled as the 'enemy within'. The actions of the tories during the strike still shame our country. BassalegCountyFan
  • Score: -1

3:10pm Thu 16 Jan 14

_Bryan_ says...

You are mistaken in saying the "the hard-working people who helped fuel the British economy and risked their lives for over a century to heat our homes were labelled as the 'enemy within'"

The enemy within were the unions themselves, not the often hard working members. It was the union leadership, having already caused the collapse of one elected government that sought to bring about the collapse of another, subverting due democratic process for their own socialist aims.
You are mistaken in saying the "the hard-working people who helped fuel the British economy and risked their lives for over a century to heat our homes were labelled as the 'enemy within'" The enemy within were the unions themselves, not the often hard working members. It was the union leadership, having already caused the collapse of one elected government that sought to bring about the collapse of another, subverting due democratic process for their own socialist aims. _Bryan_
  • Score: 0

3:41pm Thu 16 Jan 14

BassalegCountyFan says...

_Bryan_ wrote:
You are mistaken in saying the "the hard-working people who helped fuel the British economy and risked their lives for over a century to heat our homes were labelled as the 'enemy within'"

The enemy within were the unions themselves, not the often hard working members. It was the union leadership, having already caused the collapse of one elected government that sought to bring about the collapse of another, subverting due democratic process for their own socialist aims.
I have to disagree Bryan.

The strike was only politically motivated on behalf of the government - it was their intention to bring down the trade union movement and silence working-class opposition to the extreme form of capitalism they were ushering in. The unions were striking to defend jobs, and to defend communities. Scargill said at the time that former coal mining areas would be in permanent decline if the government's plan to close 95 pits (rather than their official line of 20). Unfortunately for the people of South Wales, Yorkshire and the North East, history shows that he was right.
[quote][p][bold]_Bryan_[/bold] wrote: You are mistaken in saying the "the hard-working people who helped fuel the British economy and risked their lives for over a century to heat our homes were labelled as the 'enemy within'" The enemy within were the unions themselves, not the often hard working members. It was the union leadership, having already caused the collapse of one elected government that sought to bring about the collapse of another, subverting due democratic process for their own socialist aims.[/p][/quote]I have to disagree Bryan. The strike was only politically motivated on behalf of the government - it was their intention to bring down the trade union movement and silence working-class opposition to the extreme form of capitalism they were ushering in. The unions were striking to defend jobs, and to defend communities. Scargill said at the time that former coal mining areas would be in permanent decline if the government's plan to close 95 pits (rather than their official line of 20). Unfortunately for the people of South Wales, Yorkshire and the North East, history shows that he was right. BassalegCountyFan
  • Score: 0

3:47pm Thu 16 Jan 14

BassalegCountyFan says...

_Bryan_ wrote:
You are mistaken in saying the "the hard-working people who helped fuel the British economy and risked their lives for over a century to heat our homes were labelled as the 'enemy within'"

The enemy within were the unions themselves, not the often hard working members. It was the union leadership, having already caused the collapse of one elected government that sought to bring about the collapse of another, subverting due democratic process for their own socialist aims.
And just to clarify, the unions never forcibly brought down a government. The British public voted out Heath and voted in Wilson in 1974.
[quote][p][bold]_Bryan_[/bold] wrote: You are mistaken in saying the "the hard-working people who helped fuel the British economy and risked their lives for over a century to heat our homes were labelled as the 'enemy within'" The enemy within were the unions themselves, not the often hard working members. It was the union leadership, having already caused the collapse of one elected government that sought to bring about the collapse of another, subverting due democratic process for their own socialist aims.[/p][/quote]And just to clarify, the unions never forcibly brought down a government. The British public voted out Heath and voted in Wilson in 1974. BassalegCountyFan
  • Score: 1

4:07pm Thu 16 Jan 14

Llanmartinangel says...

BassalegCountyFan wrote:
_Bryan_ wrote:
You are mistaken in saying the "the hard-working people who helped fuel the British economy and risked their lives for over a century to heat our homes were labelled as the 'enemy within'"

The enemy within were the unions themselves, not the often hard working members. It was the union leadership, having already caused the collapse of one elected government that sought to bring about the collapse of another, subverting due democratic process for their own socialist aims.
And just to clarify, the unions never forcibly brought down a government. The British public voted out Heath and voted in Wilson in 1974.
And the same public voted Thatcher in three times. It was Callaghan's failure to enforce his 'social contract' with the unions and stop the strikes which caused his downfall. The British public were fed up.
[quote][p][bold]BassalegCountyFan[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]_Bryan_[/bold] wrote: You are mistaken in saying the "the hard-working people who helped fuel the British economy and risked their lives for over a century to heat our homes were labelled as the 'enemy within'" The enemy within were the unions themselves, not the often hard working members. It was the union leadership, having already caused the collapse of one elected government that sought to bring about the collapse of another, subverting due democratic process for their own socialist aims.[/p][/quote]And just to clarify, the unions never forcibly brought down a government. The British public voted out Heath and voted in Wilson in 1974.[/p][/quote]And the same public voted Thatcher in three times. It was Callaghan's failure to enforce his 'social contract' with the unions and stop the strikes which caused his downfall. The British public were fed up. Llanmartinangel
  • Score: 0

5:46pm Thu 16 Jan 14

endthelies says...

She has always divided the country, more than any other prime minister because of the way she treated the working class, and that is the legacy she left. Cameron is doing the same thing to the poorer worker of today. Some things never change and people don't forget such awful treatment in a hurry. Remember the poll tax riots, when the police provoked and attacked peaceful protesters. She had the police under her control for the miners strike, for poll tax, for Hillsborough. Nasty, nasty piece of work.
She has always divided the country, more than any other prime minister because of the way she treated the working class, and that is the legacy she left. Cameron is doing the same thing to the poorer worker of today. Some things never change and people don't forget such awful treatment in a hurry. Remember the poll tax riots, when the police provoked and attacked peaceful protesters. She had the police under her control for the miners strike, for poll tax, for Hillsborough. Nasty, nasty piece of work. endthelies
  • Score: -3

6:03pm Thu 16 Jan 14

Stevenboy says...

endthelies wrote:
She has always divided the country, more than any other prime minister because of the way she treated the working class, and that is the legacy she left. Cameron is doing the same thing to the poorer worker of today. Some things never change and people don't forget such awful treatment in a hurry. Remember the poll tax riots, when the police provoked and attacked peaceful protesters. She had the police under her control for the miners strike, for poll tax, for Hillsborough. Nasty, nasty piece of work.
Interesting that both Blair and Brown hosted her at No10. She had bigger cojones than either of them. I think they knew that.
[quote][p][bold]endthelies[/bold] wrote: She has always divided the country, more than any other prime minister because of the way she treated the working class, and that is the legacy she left. Cameron is doing the same thing to the poorer worker of today. Some things never change and people don't forget such awful treatment in a hurry. Remember the poll tax riots, when the police provoked and attacked peaceful protesters. She had the police under her control for the miners strike, for poll tax, for Hillsborough. Nasty, nasty piece of work.[/p][/quote]Interesting that both Blair and Brown hosted her at No10. She had bigger cojones than either of them. I think they knew that. Stevenboy
  • Score: 2

6:11pm Thu 16 Jan 14

endthelies says...

Blair and brown were more tory than Labour in my opinion, so no, it doesn't surprise me but interesting, definately not. She may have had 'cojones' as you put it, but it just made her even more dangerous.
Blair and brown were more tory than Labour in my opinion, so no, it doesn't surprise me but interesting, definately not. She may have had 'cojones' as you put it, but it just made her even more dangerous. endthelies
  • Score: 1

7:34pm Thu 16 Jan 14

_Bryan_ says...

Margaret Thatcher came from an era of conviction politics, when no matter what you thought of someone's policies you could at least respect them for acting according to their beliefs.

These days, the only conviction an MP is likely to have is for fiddling their expenses
Margaret Thatcher came from an era of conviction politics, when no matter what you thought of someone's policies you could at least respect them for acting according to their beliefs. These days, the only conviction an MP is likely to have is for fiddling their expenses _Bryan_
  • Score: 2

8:49pm Thu 16 Jan 14

BassalegCountyFan says...

Llanmartinangel wrote:
BassalegCountyFan wrote:
_Bryan_ wrote:
You are mistaken in saying the "the hard-working people who helped fuel the British economy and risked their lives for over a century to heat our homes were labelled as the 'enemy within'Yes she did win three times. But even the most blue-tinted-spectacl
ed tory would have to admit that thatcher's electoral success was in part down to the deep divisions in the Labour Party during the 1980's (1983 and 1987 in particular could have been quite different if not for the desertion of the key Labour figures to the SDP, and the issues with Militant Tendency). She was also supported by a hysterical right-wing press that told countless lies about striking miners, the Labour Party, trade unions and the wider working-class to discredit all opposition in a way that crossed the lines of decency.

Thatcher had plenty of chances to end the Miners' Strike with reconciliation and compromise, but she chose not to. People don't hate her because of her beliefs - although in my view her 'greed is good' ideology is amoral and un-British - but because she had a ruthless and cruel dedication to pursuing her political goals, even if it ruined peoples' lives. Even those who are Labour to the core like myself could respect some pre-thatcher tories - in fact I remember Tony Benn once praising Edward Heath as being a closet social democrat to the left of Tony Blair! - but it was the disrespectful, brutal and conniving tactics of her reign that still leave a sour taste in the mouth. Ultimately good, honest people - the miners and their wives, steelworkers, and trade unionists - were the collateral damage of her monetarist agenda.
[quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BassalegCountyFan[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]_Bryan_[/bold] wrote: You are mistaken in saying the "the hard-working people who helped fuel the British economy and risked their lives for over a century to heat our homes were labelled as the 'enemy within'Yes she did win three times. But even the most blue-tinted-spectacl ed tory would have to admit that thatcher's electoral success was in part down to the deep divisions in the Labour Party during the 1980's (1983 and 1987 in particular could have been quite different if not for the desertion of the key Labour figures to the SDP, and the issues with Militant Tendency). She was also supported by a hysterical right-wing press that told countless lies about striking miners, the Labour Party, trade unions and the wider working-class to discredit all opposition in a way that crossed the lines of decency. Thatcher had plenty of chances to end the Miners' Strike with reconciliation and compromise, but she chose not to. People don't hate her because of her beliefs - although in my view her 'greed is good' ideology is amoral and un-British - but because she had a ruthless and cruel dedication to pursuing her political goals, even if it ruined peoples' lives. Even those who are Labour to the core like myself could respect some pre-thatcher tories - in fact I remember Tony Benn once praising Edward Heath as being a closet social democrat to the left of Tony Blair! - but it was the disrespectful, brutal and conniving tactics of her reign that still leave a sour taste in the mouth. Ultimately good, honest people - the miners and their wives, steelworkers, and trade unionists - were the collateral damage of her monetarist agenda. BassalegCountyFan
  • Score: 4

10:01pm Thu 16 Jan 14

scraptheWAG says...

but who was it that turned wales into the absolute basket case that it is today??
but who was it that turned wales into the absolute basket case that it is today?? scraptheWAG
  • Score: -2

10:04am Fri 17 Jan 14

BassalegCountyFan says...

scraptheWAG wrote:
but who was it that turned wales into the absolute basket case that it is today??
Answer - The prime minister who destroyed our core industries of coal and steel, took away our working rights (the legacy of that can be seen at various call centres throughout South Wales and at the amazon in Swansea); depleted council housing stock with the 'right-to-buy' bribe (a third of council homes are now in the hands of private landlords while waiting lists are at sky high levels); introduced league tables for schools and hospitals which have only served to demoralise staff and create unneccessary tensions; and privatised utilites for the benefit of wealthy foreign shareholders while energy prices, train tickets and water rates have rocketed as a result.

Wales - and Britain - has never recovered from the reckless damage wrought by thatcher's government.
[quote][p][bold]scraptheWAG[/bold] wrote: but who was it that turned wales into the absolute basket case that it is today??[/p][/quote]Answer - The prime minister who destroyed our core industries of coal and steel, took away our working rights (the legacy of that can be seen at various call centres throughout South Wales and at the amazon in Swansea); depleted council housing stock with the 'right-to-buy' bribe (a third of council homes are now in the hands of private landlords while waiting lists are at sky high levels); introduced league tables for schools and hospitals which have only served to demoralise staff and create unneccessary tensions; and privatised utilites for the benefit of wealthy foreign shareholders while energy prices, train tickets and water rates have rocketed as a result. Wales - and Britain - has never recovered from the reckless damage wrought by thatcher's government. BassalegCountyFan
  • Score: 1

11:50am Fri 17 Jan 14

endthelies says...

BassalegCountyFan wrote:
scraptheWAG wrote:
but who was it that turned wales into the absolute basket case that it is today??
Answer - The prime minister who destroyed our core industries of coal and steel, took away our working rights (the legacy of that can be seen at various call centres throughout South Wales and at the amazon in Swansea); depleted council housing stock with the 'right-to-buy' bribe (a third of council homes are now in the hands of private landlords while waiting lists are at sky high levels); introduced league tables for schools and hospitals which have only served to demoralise staff and create unneccessary tensions; and privatised utilites for the benefit of wealthy foreign shareholders while energy prices, train tickets and water rates have rocketed as a result.

Wales - and Britain - has never recovered from the reckless damage wrought by thatcher's government.
Well said BCF. I just don't get how others cannot understand exactly what she did to the people of her own country. Its there for all to see everyday and now her aims have been well and truly documented too.
[quote][p][bold]BassalegCountyFan[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]scraptheWAG[/bold] wrote: but who was it that turned wales into the absolute basket case that it is today??[/p][/quote]Answer - The prime minister who destroyed our core industries of coal and steel, took away our working rights (the legacy of that can be seen at various call centres throughout South Wales and at the amazon in Swansea); depleted council housing stock with the 'right-to-buy' bribe (a third of council homes are now in the hands of private landlords while waiting lists are at sky high levels); introduced league tables for schools and hospitals which have only served to demoralise staff and create unneccessary tensions; and privatised utilites for the benefit of wealthy foreign shareholders while energy prices, train tickets and water rates have rocketed as a result. Wales - and Britain - has never recovered from the reckless damage wrought by thatcher's government.[/p][/quote]Well said BCF. I just don't get how others cannot understand exactly what she did to the people of her own country. Its there for all to see everyday and now her aims have been well and truly documented too. endthelies
  • Score: 5

1:25pm Fri 17 Jan 14

Gareth says...

From the perspective of someone reading from the terraces, can I just take a step back and thank you guys for the comments on this section.

It's an absolute pleasure to see intelligent, educated people passionately debate an issue, without the need to slag the other off for their different opinion.

Now THIS is what the SWA comments section should be about. Long may it continue.
From the perspective of someone reading from the terraces, can I just take a step back and thank you guys for the comments on this section. It's an absolute pleasure to see intelligent, educated people passionately debate an issue, without the need to slag the other off for their different opinion. Now THIS is what the SWA comments section should be about. Long may it continue. Gareth
  • Score: 5

7:08pm Fri 17 Jan 14

welshmen says...

scraptheWAG wrote:
but who was it that turned wales into the absolute basket case that it is today??
The Labour Government with 2.5 Million immigrants + countless more illegal asylum seekers with no infrastructure to accommodate the hordes that are here and still coming here....
[quote][p][bold]scraptheWAG[/bold] wrote: but who was it that turned wales into the absolute basket case that it is today??[/p][/quote]The Labour Government with 2.5 Million immigrants + countless more illegal asylum seekers with no infrastructure to accommodate the hordes that are here and still coming here.... welshmen
  • Score: 0

7:40pm Fri 17 Jan 14

blackandamber says...

My fellow posters I have read your contributions some in which I am in agreement, some disagreement some in absolute despair. But I would like to contribute one last comment on this subject. Iv'e lived a long time Iv'e worked all my life, sometimes in the private sector, sometimes in nationalised industry, Iv'e lived through several recessions and several governments of Labour, Conservatives and coalitions and I have come to this conclusion that if you vote for the Labour party in its current mindset and leadership they will bankrupt this country again as they did in their last term in office, and it will be the working man who will bear the brunt of the pain again.
My fellow posters I have read your contributions some in which I am in agreement, some disagreement some in absolute despair. But I would like to contribute one last comment on this subject. Iv'e lived a long time Iv'e worked all my life, sometimes in the private sector, sometimes in nationalised industry, Iv'e lived through several recessions and several governments of Labour, Conservatives and coalitions and I have come to this conclusion that if you vote for the Labour party in its current mindset and leadership they will bankrupt this country again as they did in their last term in office, and it will be the working man who will bear the brunt of the pain again. blackandamber
  • Score: 3

8:04pm Fri 17 Jan 14

foxy3rd says...

It isn't only the people of this country she bigotly harmed.
She's also according to other releases, been implicated in the Sikh massacre at the Golden Temple at Amritsar, I believe Pinochet was a friend.
I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if she is implicated in further anti working class put downs somewhere in the world.
I also believe thar moneybags Blair has also caused a fair bit of damage to the country after Thatcher made all our heavy industries sitting targets for overseas concerns.
It isn't only the people of this country she bigotly harmed. She's also according to other releases, been implicated in the Sikh massacre at the Golden Temple at Amritsar, I believe Pinochet was a friend. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if she is implicated in further anti working class put downs somewhere in the world. I also believe thar moneybags Blair has also caused a fair bit of damage to the country after Thatcher made all our heavy industries sitting targets for overseas concerns. foxy3rd
  • Score: 2

4:41pm Sat 18 Jan 14

Ollie254 says...

BassalegCountyFan wrote:
_Bryan_ wrote:
All this talk of ballot boxes reminded me of something. Way back in 1984, the NUM refused to ask its members whether they wanted to strike.

The union leadership took the decision without reference to the members and then used mob rule and peer pressure to enforce the decision. I can't say I know which way such a strike vote would have gone, but its telling that when the miners were finally given a vote on the matter a year later, the majority voted to return to work.
Those who returned to work in 1985 did so because they were starved into doing so. And actually, 93% of South Wales miners were still on strike in 1985. They were fighting not just for their jobs, not just for their rights at work, but for their communities.

And you mention 'mob rule' and intimidation - isn't that exactly what the tory government's tactics were? That's what the newly released documents suggest, although sadly the bbc tried to shine attention away from this by putting on a conveniently-timed Scargill-bashing programme.

The brutality of the police in the strike, and the government's plans to cover up truth were both disgraceful. http://www.theguardi

an.com/politics/2014

/jan/03/margaret-tha

tcher-secret-plan-ar

my-miners-strike

Even worse though was that the hard-working people who helped fuel the British economy and risked their lives for over a century to heat our homes were labelled as the 'enemy within'. The actions of the tories during the strike still shame our country.
The union official living next door to my Mum continued to heat his home with free coal during the strike whilst we had to beg coal wherever we could get any and sometimes failed. In addition it is known that the USSR sent cases of cash to the NUM I seem to recall we were still in a Cold War with them at the time . Maggie put the unions in their place and no Government has let them out since.
[quote][p][bold]BassalegCountyFan[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]_Bryan_[/bold] wrote: All this talk of ballot boxes reminded me of something. Way back in 1984, the NUM refused to ask its members whether they wanted to strike. The union leadership took the decision without reference to the members and then used mob rule and peer pressure to enforce the decision. I can't say I know which way such a strike vote would have gone, but its telling that when the miners were finally given a vote on the matter a year later, the majority voted to return to work.[/p][/quote]Those who returned to work in 1985 did so because they were starved into doing so. And actually, 93% of South Wales miners were still on strike in 1985. They were fighting not just for their jobs, not just for their rights at work, but for their communities. And you mention 'mob rule' and intimidation - isn't that exactly what the tory government's tactics were? That's what the newly released documents suggest, although sadly the bbc tried to shine attention away from this by putting on a conveniently-timed Scargill-bashing programme. The brutality of the police in the strike, and the government's plans to cover up truth were both disgraceful. http://www.theguardi an.com/politics/2014 /jan/03/margaret-tha tcher-secret-plan-ar my-miners-strike Even worse though was that the hard-working people who helped fuel the British economy and risked their lives for over a century to heat our homes were labelled as the 'enemy within'. The actions of the tories during the strike still shame our country.[/p][/quote]The union official living next door to my Mum continued to heat his home with free coal during the strike whilst we had to beg coal wherever we could get any and sometimes failed. In addition it is known that the USSR sent cases of cash to the NUM I seem to recall we were still in a Cold War with them at the time . Maggie put the unions in their place and no Government has let them out since. Ollie254
  • Score: 0

5:40pm Sat 18 Jan 14

regaturn says...

BassalegCountyFan wrote:
_Bryan_ wrote:
All this talk of ballot boxes reminded me of something. Way back in 1984, the NUM refused to ask its members whether they wanted to strike.

The union leadership took the decision without reference to the members and then used mob rule and peer pressure to enforce the decision. I can't say I know which way such a strike vote would have gone, but its telling that when the miners were finally given a vote on the matter a year later, the majority voted to return to work.
Those who returned to work in 1985 did so because they were starved into doing so. And actually, 93% of South Wales miners were still on strike in 1985. They were fighting not just for their jobs, not just for their rights at work, but for their communities.

And you mention 'mob rule' and intimidation - isn't that exactly what the tory government's tactics were? That's what the newly released documents suggest, although sadly the bbc tried to shine attention away from this by putting on a conveniently-timed Scargill-bashing programme.

The brutality of the police in the strike, and the government's plans to cover up truth were both disgraceful. http://www.theguardi

an.com/politics/2014

/jan/03/margaret-tha

tcher-secret-plan-ar

my-miners-strike

Even worse though was that the hard-working people who helped fuel the British economy and risked their lives for over a century to heat our homes were labelled as the 'enemy within'. The actions of the tories during the strike still shame our country.
Brutality of the police? Sorry remind me who killed the taxi driver?
[quote][p][bold]BassalegCountyFan[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]_Bryan_[/bold] wrote: All this talk of ballot boxes reminded me of something. Way back in 1984, the NUM refused to ask its members whether they wanted to strike. The union leadership took the decision without reference to the members and then used mob rule and peer pressure to enforce the decision. I can't say I know which way such a strike vote would have gone, but its telling that when the miners were finally given a vote on the matter a year later, the majority voted to return to work.[/p][/quote]Those who returned to work in 1985 did so because they were starved into doing so. And actually, 93% of South Wales miners were still on strike in 1985. They were fighting not just for their jobs, not just for their rights at work, but for their communities. And you mention 'mob rule' and intimidation - isn't that exactly what the tory government's tactics were? That's what the newly released documents suggest, although sadly the bbc tried to shine attention away from this by putting on a conveniently-timed Scargill-bashing programme. The brutality of the police in the strike, and the government's plans to cover up truth were both disgraceful. http://www.theguardi an.com/politics/2014 /jan/03/margaret-tha tcher-secret-plan-ar my-miners-strike Even worse though was that the hard-working people who helped fuel the British economy and risked their lives for over a century to heat our homes were labelled as the 'enemy within'. The actions of the tories during the strike still shame our country.[/p][/quote]Brutality of the police? Sorry remind me who killed the taxi driver? regaturn
  • Score: 4

7:05pm Sat 18 Jan 14

Ollie254 says...

regaturn wrote:
BassalegCountyFan wrote:
_Bryan_ wrote:
All this talk of ballot boxes reminded me of something. Way back in 1984, the NUM refused to ask its members whether they wanted to strike.

The union leadership took the decision without reference to the members and then used mob rule and peer pressure to enforce the decision. I can't say I know which way such a strike vote would have gone, but its telling that when the miners were finally given a vote on the matter a year later, the majority voted to return to work.
Those who returned to work in 1985 did so because they were starved into doing so. And actually, 93% of South Wales miners were still on strike in 1985. They were fighting not just for their jobs, not just for their rights at work, but for their communities.

And you mention 'mob rule' and intimidation - isn't that exactly what the tory government's tactics were? That's what the newly released documents suggest, although sadly the bbc tried to shine attention away from this by putting on a conveniently-timed Scargill-bashing programme.

The brutality of the police in the strike, and the government's plans to cover up truth were both disgraceful. http://www.theguardi


an.com/politics/2014


/jan/03/margaret-tha


tcher-secret-plan-ar


my-miners-strike

Even worse though was that the hard-working people who helped fuel the British economy and risked their lives for over a century to heat our homes were labelled as the 'enemy within'. The actions of the tories during the strike still shame our country.
Brutality of the police? Sorry remind me who killed the taxi driver?
The police stood between us and anarchy and they should be applauded. Had they lost there would not be any unions now that's for sure. Count how many there are in China
[quote][p][bold]regaturn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BassalegCountyFan[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]_Bryan_[/bold] wrote: All this talk of ballot boxes reminded me of something. Way back in 1984, the NUM refused to ask its members whether they wanted to strike. The union leadership took the decision without reference to the members and then used mob rule and peer pressure to enforce the decision. I can't say I know which way such a strike vote would have gone, but its telling that when the miners were finally given a vote on the matter a year later, the majority voted to return to work.[/p][/quote]Those who returned to work in 1985 did so because they were starved into doing so. And actually, 93% of South Wales miners were still on strike in 1985. They were fighting not just for their jobs, not just for their rights at work, but for their communities. And you mention 'mob rule' and intimidation - isn't that exactly what the tory government's tactics were? That's what the newly released documents suggest, although sadly the bbc tried to shine attention away from this by putting on a conveniently-timed Scargill-bashing programme. The brutality of the police in the strike, and the government's plans to cover up truth were both disgraceful. http://www.theguardi an.com/politics/2014 /jan/03/margaret-tha tcher-secret-plan-ar my-miners-strike Even worse though was that the hard-working people who helped fuel the British economy and risked their lives for over a century to heat our homes were labelled as the 'enemy within'. The actions of the tories during the strike still shame our country.[/p][/quote]Brutality of the police? Sorry remind me who killed the taxi driver?[/p][/quote]The police stood between us and anarchy and they should be applauded. Had they lost there would not be any unions now that's for sure. Count how many there are in China Ollie254
  • Score: -1

10:28pm Sat 18 Jan 14

Dai37 says...

What is all this cobblers about the "noble hard working classes" I worked in the steel industry in the pre miners and steel strike years and I have to tell you it was a joke. Managers not allowed to manage! Despotic union officials, hell bent on disruption. Workers on ridiculous amounts of unnecessary fraudulent overtime. Those times certainly changed my political viewpoint . The Labour government of the time were ruled by the unions and it needed somebody with the balls to take them on, the rest is thankfully history.
What is all this cobblers about the "noble hard working classes" I worked in the steel industry in the pre miners and steel strike years and I have to tell you it was a joke. Managers not allowed to manage! Despotic union officials, hell bent on disruption. Workers on ridiculous amounts of unnecessary fraudulent overtime. Those times certainly changed my political viewpoint . The Labour government of the time were ruled by the unions and it needed somebody with the balls to take them on, the rest is thankfully history. Dai37
  • Score: 3

11:17pm Sat 18 Jan 14

Ollie254 says...

Dai37 wrote:
What is all this cobblers about the "noble hard working classes" I worked in the steel industry in the pre miners and steel strike years and I have to tell you it was a joke. Managers not allowed to manage! Despotic union officials, hell bent on disruption. Workers on ridiculous amounts of unnecessary fraudulent overtime. Those times certainly changed my political viewpoint . The Labour government of the time were ruled by the unions and it needed somebody with the balls to take them on, the rest is thankfully history.
Well said sir.
[quote][p][bold]Dai37[/bold] wrote: What is all this cobblers about the "noble hard working classes" I worked in the steel industry in the pre miners and steel strike years and I have to tell you it was a joke. Managers not allowed to manage! Despotic union officials, hell bent on disruption. Workers on ridiculous amounts of unnecessary fraudulent overtime. Those times certainly changed my political viewpoint . The Labour government of the time were ruled by the unions and it needed somebody with the balls to take them on, the rest is thankfully history.[/p][/quote]Well said sir. Ollie254
  • Score: 1

11:42am Sun 19 Jan 14

Mr Angry says...

Dai37 wrote:
What is all this cobblers about the "noble hard working classes" I worked in the steel industry in the pre miners and steel strike years and I have to tell you it was a joke. Managers not allowed to manage! Despotic union officials, hell bent on disruption. Workers on ridiculous amounts of unnecessary fraudulent overtime. Those times certainly changed my political viewpoint . The Labour government of the time were ruled by the unions and it needed somebody with the balls to take them on, the rest is thankfully history.
Form my experience of managers they should never be allowed to manage most were idiots.
[quote][p][bold]Dai37[/bold] wrote: What is all this cobblers about the "noble hard working classes" I worked in the steel industry in the pre miners and steel strike years and I have to tell you it was a joke. Managers not allowed to manage! Despotic union officials, hell bent on disruption. Workers on ridiculous amounts of unnecessary fraudulent overtime. Those times certainly changed my political viewpoint . The Labour government of the time were ruled by the unions and it needed somebody with the balls to take them on, the rest is thankfully history.[/p][/quote]Form my experience of managers they should never be allowed to manage most were idiots. Mr Angry
  • Score: 1

11:47am Sun 19 Jan 14

endthelies says...

Ollie254 wrote:
Dai37 wrote:
What is all this cobblers about the "noble hard working classes" I worked in the steel industry in the pre miners and steel strike years and I have to tell you it was a joke. Managers not allowed to manage! Despotic union officials, hell bent on disruption. Workers on ridiculous amounts of unnecessary fraudulent overtime. Those times certainly changed my political viewpoint . The Labour government of the time were ruled by the unions and it needed somebody with the balls to take them on, the rest is thankfully history.
Well said sir.
And look at what we were left with. Unemployment, deprivation, benefit dependency and empty shops. Yup, Maggie did us all a favour by making thousands redundant to make sure she finished off the unions!! I'm sure everyone in the valleys is eternally grateful. I think they should erect a statue in her 'honour' and let the valley folk show their 'gratitude' to her.
[quote][p][bold]Ollie254[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dai37[/bold] wrote: What is all this cobblers about the "noble hard working classes" I worked in the steel industry in the pre miners and steel strike years and I have to tell you it was a joke. Managers not allowed to manage! Despotic union officials, hell bent on disruption. Workers on ridiculous amounts of unnecessary fraudulent overtime. Those times certainly changed my political viewpoint . The Labour government of the time were ruled by the unions and it needed somebody with the balls to take them on, the rest is thankfully history.[/p][/quote]Well said sir.[/p][/quote]And look at what we were left with. Unemployment, deprivation, benefit dependency and empty shops. Yup, Maggie did us all a favour by making thousands redundant to make sure she finished off the unions!! I'm sure everyone in the valleys is eternally grateful. I think they should erect a statue in her 'honour' and let the valley folk show their 'gratitude' to her. endthelies
  • Score: 3

1:17pm Sun 19 Jan 14

Ollie254 says...

endthelies wrote:
Ollie254 wrote:
Dai37 wrote:
What is all this cobblers about the "noble hard working classes" I worked in the steel industry in the pre miners and steel strike years and I have to tell you it was a joke. Managers not allowed to manage! Despotic union officials, hell bent on disruption. Workers on ridiculous amounts of unnecessary fraudulent overtime. Those times certainly changed my political viewpoint . The Labour government of the time were ruled by the unions and it needed somebody with the balls to take them on, the rest is thankfully history.
Well said sir.
And look at what we were left with. Unemployment, deprivation, benefit dependency and empty shops. Yup, Maggie did us all a favour by making thousands redundant to make sure she finished off the unions!! I'm sure everyone in the valleys is eternally grateful. I think they should erect a statue in her 'honour' and let the valley folk show their 'gratitude' to her.
Well the Labour Party who everyone votes for around here haven't done anything to change that. I seem to recall that they had three terms to do so.
[quote][p][bold]endthelies[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ollie254[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dai37[/bold] wrote: What is all this cobblers about the "noble hard working classes" I worked in the steel industry in the pre miners and steel strike years and I have to tell you it was a joke. Managers not allowed to manage! Despotic union officials, hell bent on disruption. Workers on ridiculous amounts of unnecessary fraudulent overtime. Those times certainly changed my political viewpoint . The Labour government of the time were ruled by the unions and it needed somebody with the balls to take them on, the rest is thankfully history.[/p][/quote]Well said sir.[/p][/quote]And look at what we were left with. Unemployment, deprivation, benefit dependency and empty shops. Yup, Maggie did us all a favour by making thousands redundant to make sure she finished off the unions!! I'm sure everyone in the valleys is eternally grateful. I think they should erect a statue in her 'honour' and let the valley folk show their 'gratitude' to her.[/p][/quote]Well the Labour Party who everyone votes for around here haven't done anything to change that. I seem to recall that they had three terms to do so. Ollie254
  • Score: -2

4:52pm Sun 19 Jan 14

endthelies says...

Not an easy job to replace thousands of jobs that were lost in one fell swoop, however, I agree, previous governments, both Labour and Cons have not done enough for Wales but it doesn't change the fact that it was Maggie who started us on this downward spiral.
Not an easy job to replace thousands of jobs that were lost in one fell swoop, however, I agree, previous governments, both Labour and Cons have not done enough for Wales but it doesn't change the fact that it was Maggie who started us on this downward spiral. endthelies
  • Score: 4

4:55pm Sun 19 Jan 14

endthelies says...

Ollie254 wrote:
endthelies wrote:
Ollie254 wrote:
Dai37 wrote:
What is all this cobblers about the "noble hard working classes" I worked in the steel industry in the pre miners and steel strike years and I have to tell you it was a joke. Managers not allowed to manage! Despotic union officials, hell bent on disruption. Workers on ridiculous amounts of unnecessary fraudulent overtime. Those times certainly changed my political viewpoint . The Labour government of the time were ruled by the unions and it needed somebody with the balls to take them on, the rest is thankfully history.
Well said sir.
And look at what we were left with. Unemployment, deprivation, benefit dependency and empty shops. Yup, Maggie did us all a favour by making thousands redundant to make sure she finished off the unions!! I'm sure everyone in the valleys is eternally grateful. I think they should erect a statue in her 'honour' and let the valley folk show their 'gratitude' to her.
Well the Labour Party who everyone votes for around here haven't done anything to change that. I seem to recall that they had three terms to do so.
P.s . Just a an add-on, why is it as soon as Maggie is mentioned, the Labour party are always, always blamed for not putting right her wrongs? They should have done more, but then, she shouldn't have made thousands redundant to satisfy her ego and **** for political power.
[quote][p][bold]Ollie254[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]endthelies[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ollie254[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dai37[/bold] wrote: What is all this cobblers about the "noble hard working classes" I worked in the steel industry in the pre miners and steel strike years and I have to tell you it was a joke. Managers not allowed to manage! Despotic union officials, hell bent on disruption. Workers on ridiculous amounts of unnecessary fraudulent overtime. Those times certainly changed my political viewpoint . The Labour government of the time were ruled by the unions and it needed somebody with the balls to take them on, the rest is thankfully history.[/p][/quote]Well said sir.[/p][/quote]And look at what we were left with. Unemployment, deprivation, benefit dependency and empty shops. Yup, Maggie did us all a favour by making thousands redundant to make sure she finished off the unions!! I'm sure everyone in the valleys is eternally grateful. I think they should erect a statue in her 'honour' and let the valley folk show their 'gratitude' to her.[/p][/quote]Well the Labour Party who everyone votes for around here haven't done anything to change that. I seem to recall that they had three terms to do so.[/p][/quote]P.s . Just a an add-on, why is it as soon as Maggie is mentioned, the Labour party are always, always blamed for not putting right her wrongs? They should have done more, but then, she shouldn't have made thousands redundant to satisfy her ego and **** for political power. endthelies
  • Score: 4

4:57pm Sun 19 Jan 14

endthelies says...

Sorry I'm not sure what the 'stars are for' . Could be my sore hands hit some wrong keys. Old age doesn't come by itself you know :)
Sorry I'm not sure what the 'stars are for' . Could be my sore hands hit some wrong keys. Old age doesn't come by itself you know :) endthelies
  • Score: 2

6:44pm Sun 19 Jan 14

scraptheWAG says...

endthelies wrote:
Ollie254 wrote:
endthelies wrote:
Ollie254 wrote:
Dai37 wrote:
What is all this cobblers about the "noble hard working classes" I worked in the steel industry in the pre miners and steel strike years and I have to tell you it was a joke. Managers not allowed to manage! Despotic union officials, hell bent on disruption. Workers on ridiculous amounts of unnecessary fraudulent overtime. Those times certainly changed my political viewpoint . The Labour government of the time were ruled by the unions and it needed somebody with the balls to take them on, the rest is thankfully history.
Well said sir.
And look at what we were left with. Unemployment, deprivation, benefit dependency and empty shops. Yup, Maggie did us all a favour by making thousands redundant to make sure she finished off the unions!! I'm sure everyone in the valleys is eternally grateful. I think they should erect a statue in her 'honour' and let the valley folk show their 'gratitude' to her.
Well the Labour Party who everyone votes for around here haven't done anything to change that. I seem to recall that they had three terms to do so.
P.s . Just a an add-on, why is it as soon as Maggie is mentioned, the Labour party are always, always blamed for not putting right her wrongs? They should have done more, but then, she shouldn't have made thousands redundant to satisfy her ego and **** for political power.
it does make me laugh all the vote labour father voted labour gang thatcher left power in 1990 at that time newport was a average town it was under labours reign from 1997 on wards that it fell into the absolute pits of the earth like it is now the valleys have their own problem there is no reason why a town located along the m4 next to bristol should have ended up in this disgraceful state
[quote][p][bold]endthelies[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ollie254[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]endthelies[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ollie254[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dai37[/bold] wrote: What is all this cobblers about the "noble hard working classes" I worked in the steel industry in the pre miners and steel strike years and I have to tell you it was a joke. Managers not allowed to manage! Despotic union officials, hell bent on disruption. Workers on ridiculous amounts of unnecessary fraudulent overtime. Those times certainly changed my political viewpoint . The Labour government of the time were ruled by the unions and it needed somebody with the balls to take them on, the rest is thankfully history.[/p][/quote]Well said sir.[/p][/quote]And look at what we were left with. Unemployment, deprivation, benefit dependency and empty shops. Yup, Maggie did us all a favour by making thousands redundant to make sure she finished off the unions!! I'm sure everyone in the valleys is eternally grateful. I think they should erect a statue in her 'honour' and let the valley folk show their 'gratitude' to her.[/p][/quote]Well the Labour Party who everyone votes for around here haven't done anything to change that. I seem to recall that they had three terms to do so.[/p][/quote]P.s . Just a an add-on, why is it as soon as Maggie is mentioned, the Labour party are always, always blamed for not putting right her wrongs? They should have done more, but then, she shouldn't have made thousands redundant to satisfy her ego and **** for political power.[/p][/quote]it does make me laugh all the vote labour father voted labour gang thatcher left power in 1990 at that time newport was a average town it was under labours reign from 1997 on wards that it fell into the absolute pits of the earth like it is now the valleys have their own problem there is no reason why a town located along the m4 next to bristol should have ended up in this disgraceful state scraptheWAG
  • Score: -1

6:45pm Sun 19 Jan 14

scraptheWAG says...

welshmen wrote:
scraptheWAG wrote:
but who was it that turned wales into the absolute basket case that it is today??
The Labour Government with 2.5 Million immigrants + countless more illegal asylum seekers with no infrastructure to accommodate the hordes that are here and still coming here....
yep you have it my friend non other that good old labour
[quote][p][bold]welshmen[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]scraptheWAG[/bold] wrote: but who was it that turned wales into the absolute basket case that it is today??[/p][/quote]The Labour Government with 2.5 Million immigrants + countless more illegal asylum seekers with no infrastructure to accommodate the hordes that are here and still coming here....[/p][/quote]yep you have it my friend non other that good old labour scraptheWAG
  • Score: -4

6:48pm Sun 19 Jan 14

scraptheWAG says...

endthelies wrote:
blackandamber wrote:
endthelies wrote:
blackandamber wrote:
endthelies wrote:
That means 52 % didn't want her elected then.
42% of the people that voted.
that still means 52% of the people that voted did not vote for her though.
That's the problem of the people that don't vote not the ones that do.
You quotes 42% of voters voted Tory. the statistics of people who VOTED to be a 100 percent statistic, that means 52% of people who VOTED did not vote for her. Now if you said 42% of the whole population had voted for Maggie then that would be a different meaning altogether.
and how many voted for the WAG just a handfull
[quote][p][bold]endthelies[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]blackandamber[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]endthelies[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]blackandamber[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]endthelies[/bold] wrote: That means 52 % didn't want her elected then.[/p][/quote]42% of the people that voted.[/p][/quote]that still means 52% of the people that voted did not vote for her though.[/p][/quote]That's the problem of the people that don't vote not the ones that do.[/p][/quote]You quotes 42% of voters voted Tory. the statistics of people who VOTED to be a 100 percent statistic, that means 52% of people who VOTED did not vote for her. Now if you said 42% of the whole population had voted for Maggie then that would be a different meaning altogether.[/p][/quote]and how many voted for the WAG just a handfull scraptheWAG
  • Score: -2

6:54pm Sun 19 Jan 14

endthelies says...

And how many voted for cons in the last election? Not enough to give them a majority and therefore a hung parliament. We have a government that no one really wanted or asked for but we're stuck with them until next year unfortunately.
And how many voted for cons in the last election? Not enough to give them a majority and therefore a hung parliament. We have a government that no one really wanted or asked for but we're stuck with them until next year unfortunately. endthelies
  • Score: 2

8:51pm Sun 19 Jan 14

Magor says...

Thatcher was the legacy of Labours mess in the 70s.Just as Cameron is now ..Dont let Labour do it again.
Thatcher was the legacy of Labours mess in the 70s.Just as Cameron is now ..Dont let Labour do it again. Magor
  • Score: -1

10:51pm Sun 19 Jan 14

Dai37 says...

Well I noticed that nobody argued with the statement that I made regarding those "salt of the earth" skilled hard done by working classes, particularly in the steel industry. Whilst the industry was losing millions of tax payers money, thousands and I use the word advisedly were sleeping away their overtime on double and treble time. The unions were so strong that management were unable to manage and capitulated to avoid the inevitable strike.
anybody with half a brain cell could see that the situation could not go on , hence Thatchers success.
Incidentally it was just not the steel industry, look at the dockers, Spanish practises, phantom workers the list is endless. If they wern't down the pub by lunchtime they were having a bad day.
Beleagured working classes my arse. Try and get away with it now.
Well I noticed that nobody argued with the statement that I made regarding those "salt of the earth" skilled hard done by working classes, particularly in the steel industry. Whilst the industry was losing millions of tax payers money, thousands and I use the word advisedly were sleeping away their overtime on double and treble time. The unions were so strong that management were unable to manage and capitulated to avoid the inevitable strike. anybody with half a brain cell could see that the situation could not go on , hence Thatchers success. Incidentally it was just not the steel industry, look at the dockers, Spanish practises, phantom workers the list is endless. If they wern't down the pub by lunchtime they were having a bad day. Beleagured working classes my arse. Try and get away with it now. Dai37
  • Score: 0

12:44am Mon 20 Jan 14

BassalegCountyFan says...

Ollie254 wrote:
BassalegCountyFan wrote:
_Bryan_ wrote:
All this talk of ballot boxes reminded me of something. Way back in 1984, the NUM refused to ask its members whether they wanted to strike.

The union leadership took the decision without reference to the members and then used mob rule and peer pressure to enforce the decision. I can't say I know which way such a strike vote would have gone, but its telling that when the miners were finally given a vote on the matter a year later, the majority voted to return to work.
Those who returned to work in 1985 did so because they were starved into doing so. And actually, 93% of South Wales miners were still on strike in 1985. They were fighting not just for their jobs, not just for their rights at work, but for their communities.

And you mention 'mob rule' and intimidation - isn't that exactly what the tory government's tactics were? That's what the newly released documents suggest, although sadly the bbc tried to shine attention away from this by putting on a conveniently-timed Scargill-bashing programme.

The brutality of the police in the strike, and the government's plans to cover up truth were both disgraceful. http://www.theguardi


an.com/politics/2014


/jan/03/margaret-tha


tcher-secret-plan-ar


my-miners-strike

Even worse though was that the hard-working people who helped fuel the British economy and risked their lives for over a century to heat our homes were labelled as the 'enemy within'. The actions of the tories during the strike still shame our country.
The union official living next door to my Mum continued to heat his home with free coal during the strike whilst we had to beg coal wherever we could get any and sometimes failed. In addition it is known that the USSR sent cases of cash to the NUM I seem to recall we were still in a Cold War with them at the time . Maggie put the unions in their place and no Government has let them out since.
I find the right-wing notion of 'putting the unions in their place' as quite a disturbing one.
It seems to infer shutting ordinary people up, not speaking up against injustice, and allowing your rights and dignity to be trampled over in the name of money-making.

Trade unionism is at the core of what it means to be British - from the Chartists to the Jarrow Crusaders to the brave miners who stayed on strike over 1984 to 85- and when the tories clamped down on the bargaining power of working people the biggest loser was democracy. We now have the same rights at work as eastern European countries. It's a disgrace.
[quote][p][bold]Ollie254[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BassalegCountyFan[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]_Bryan_[/bold] wrote: All this talk of ballot boxes reminded me of something. Way back in 1984, the NUM refused to ask its members whether they wanted to strike. The union leadership took the decision without reference to the members and then used mob rule and peer pressure to enforce the decision. I can't say I know which way such a strike vote would have gone, but its telling that when the miners were finally given a vote on the matter a year later, the majority voted to return to work.[/p][/quote]Those who returned to work in 1985 did so because they were starved into doing so. And actually, 93% of South Wales miners were still on strike in 1985. They were fighting not just for their jobs, not just for their rights at work, but for their communities. And you mention 'mob rule' and intimidation - isn't that exactly what the tory government's tactics were? That's what the newly released documents suggest, although sadly the bbc tried to shine attention away from this by putting on a conveniently-timed Scargill-bashing programme. The brutality of the police in the strike, and the government's plans to cover up truth were both disgraceful. http://www.theguardi an.com/politics/2014 /jan/03/margaret-tha tcher-secret-plan-ar my-miners-strike Even worse though was that the hard-working people who helped fuel the British economy and risked their lives for over a century to heat our homes were labelled as the 'enemy within'. The actions of the tories during the strike still shame our country.[/p][/quote]The union official living next door to my Mum continued to heat his home with free coal during the strike whilst we had to beg coal wherever we could get any and sometimes failed. In addition it is known that the USSR sent cases of cash to the NUM I seem to recall we were still in a Cold War with them at the time . Maggie put the unions in their place and no Government has let them out since.[/p][/quote]I find the right-wing notion of 'putting the unions in their place' as quite a disturbing one. It seems to infer shutting ordinary people up, not speaking up against injustice, and allowing your rights and dignity to be trampled over in the name of money-making. Trade unionism is at the core of what it means to be British - from the Chartists to the Jarrow Crusaders to the brave miners who stayed on strike over 1984 to 85- and when the tories clamped down on the bargaining power of working people the biggest loser was democracy. We now have the same rights at work as eastern European countries. It's a disgrace. BassalegCountyFan
  • Score: 4

12:51am Mon 20 Jan 14

BassalegCountyFan says...

Ollie254 wrote:
regaturn wrote:
BassalegCountyFan wrote:
_Bryan_ wrote:
All this talk of ballot boxes reminded me of something. Way back in 1984, the NUM refused to ask its members whether they wanted to strike.

The union leadership took the decision without reference to the members and then used mob rule and peer pressure to enforce the decision. I can't say I know which way such a strike vote would have gone, but its telling that when the miners were finally given a vote on the matter a year later, the majority voted to return to work.
Those who returned to work in 1985 did so because they were starved into doing so. And actually, 93% of South Wales miners were still on strike in 1985. They were fighting not just for their jobs, not just for their rights at work, but for their communities.

And you mention 'mob rule' and intimidation - isn't that exactly what the tory government's tactics were? That's what the newly released documents suggest, although sadly the bbc tried to shine attention away from this by putting on a conveniently-timed Scargill-bashing programme.

The brutality of the police in the strike, and the government's plans to cover up truth were both disgraceful. http://www.theguardi



an.com/politics/2014



/jan/03/margaret-tha



tcher-secret-plan-ar



my-miners-strike

Even worse though was that the hard-working people who helped fuel the British economy and risked their lives for over a century to heat our homes were labelled as the 'enemy within'. The actions of the tories during the strike still shame our country.
Brutality of the police? Sorry remind me who killed the taxi driver?
The police stood between us and anarchy and they should be applauded. Had they lost there would not be any unions now that's for sure. Count how many there are in China
Sorry but that's total rubbish.
The miners strike of 1984-85 was only political on behalf of the government who wanted to silence opposition at any cost. The miners were striking for their jobs and for their communities, and to say anything other than that is a clear distortion of the truth.

And in response to regaturn. how would you define the actions of the police at orgreave if not brutal? It was probably the closest thing we've seen to what a 1984-style totalitarian police force. Watch the footage on youtube and elsewhere. It's frightening.
[quote][p][bold]Ollie254[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]regaturn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BassalegCountyFan[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]_Bryan_[/bold] wrote: All this talk of ballot boxes reminded me of something. Way back in 1984, the NUM refused to ask its members whether they wanted to strike. The union leadership took the decision without reference to the members and then used mob rule and peer pressure to enforce the decision. I can't say I know which way such a strike vote would have gone, but its telling that when the miners were finally given a vote on the matter a year later, the majority voted to return to work.[/p][/quote]Those who returned to work in 1985 did so because they were starved into doing so. And actually, 93% of South Wales miners were still on strike in 1985. They were fighting not just for their jobs, not just for their rights at work, but for their communities. And you mention 'mob rule' and intimidation - isn't that exactly what the tory government's tactics were? That's what the newly released documents suggest, although sadly the bbc tried to shine attention away from this by putting on a conveniently-timed Scargill-bashing programme. The brutality of the police in the strike, and the government's plans to cover up truth were both disgraceful. http://www.theguardi an.com/politics/2014 /jan/03/margaret-tha tcher-secret-plan-ar my-miners-strike Even worse though was that the hard-working people who helped fuel the British economy and risked their lives for over a century to heat our homes were labelled as the 'enemy within'. The actions of the tories during the strike still shame our country.[/p][/quote]Brutality of the police? Sorry remind me who killed the taxi driver?[/p][/quote]The police stood between us and anarchy and they should be applauded. Had they lost there would not be any unions now that's for sure. Count how many there are in China[/p][/quote]Sorry but that's total rubbish. The miners strike of 1984-85 was only political on behalf of the government who wanted to silence opposition at any cost. The miners were striking for their jobs and for their communities, and to say anything other than that is a clear distortion of the truth. And in response to regaturn. how would you define the actions of the police at orgreave if not brutal? It was probably the closest thing we've seen to what a 1984-style totalitarian police force. Watch the footage on youtube and elsewhere. It's frightening. BassalegCountyFan
  • Score: 4

12:59am Mon 20 Jan 14

BassalegCountyFan says...

endthelies wrote:
Ollie254 wrote:
Dai37 wrote:
What is all this cobblers about the "noble hard working classes" I worked in the steel industry in the pre miners and steel strike years and I have to tell you it was a joke. Managers not allowed to manage! Despotic union officials, hell bent on disruption. Workers on ridiculous amounts of unnecessary fraudulent overtime. Those times certainly changed my political viewpoint . The Labour government of the time were ruled by the unions and it needed somebody with the balls to take them on, the rest is thankfully history.
Well said sir.
And look at what we were left with. Unemployment, deprivation, benefit dependency and empty shops. Yup, Maggie did us all a favour by making thousands redundant to make sure she finished off the unions!! I'm sure everyone in the valleys is eternally grateful. I think they should erect a statue in her 'honour' and let the valley folk show their 'gratitude' to her.
100% agreed endthelies.

As I've said before, trade unionists represent the best of what this country is about - ordinary people standing up for themselves - and what's so awful about thatcher is that she was hell-bent on destroying the collective bargaining power of ordinary people, even if it meant misery to thousands upon thousands of people in industrial communities for years to come - from Newport to the Valleys, the Midlands, the North and Scotland. Her government were a national disgrace, and as Allan Morris' letter correctly identifies they were even worse than that. They were a lying national disgrace.
[quote][p][bold]endthelies[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ollie254[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dai37[/bold] wrote: What is all this cobblers about the "noble hard working classes" I worked in the steel industry in the pre miners and steel strike years and I have to tell you it was a joke. Managers not allowed to manage! Despotic union officials, hell bent on disruption. Workers on ridiculous amounts of unnecessary fraudulent overtime. Those times certainly changed my political viewpoint . The Labour government of the time were ruled by the unions and it needed somebody with the balls to take them on, the rest is thankfully history.[/p][/quote]Well said sir.[/p][/quote]And look at what we were left with. Unemployment, deprivation, benefit dependency and empty shops. Yup, Maggie did us all a favour by making thousands redundant to make sure she finished off the unions!! I'm sure everyone in the valleys is eternally grateful. I think they should erect a statue in her 'honour' and let the valley folk show their 'gratitude' to her.[/p][/quote]100% agreed endthelies. As I've said before, trade unionists represent the best of what this country is about - ordinary people standing up for themselves - and what's so awful about thatcher is that she was hell-bent on destroying the collective bargaining power of ordinary people, even if it meant misery to thousands upon thousands of people in industrial communities for years to come - from Newport to the Valleys, the Midlands, the North and Scotland. Her government were a national disgrace, and as Allan Morris' letter correctly identifies they were even worse than that. They were a lying national disgrace. BassalegCountyFan
  • Score: 2

7:38am Mon 20 Jan 14

regaturn says...

BassalegCountyFan wrote:
Ollie254 wrote:
regaturn wrote:
BassalegCountyFan wrote:
_Bryan_ wrote:
All this talk of ballot boxes reminded me of something. Way back in 1984, the NUM refused to ask its members whether they wanted to strike.

The union leadership took the decision without reference to the members and then used mob rule and peer pressure to enforce the decision. I can't say I know which way such a strike vote would have gone, but its telling that when the miners were finally given a vote on the matter a year later, the majority voted to return to work.
Those who returned to work in 1985 did so because they were starved into doing so. And actually, 93% of South Wales miners were still on strike in 1985. They were fighting not just for their jobs, not just for their rights at work, but for their communities.

And you mention 'mob rule' and intimidation - isn't that exactly what the tory government's tactics were? That's what the newly released documents suggest, although sadly the bbc tried to shine attention away from this by putting on a conveniently-timed Scargill-bashing programme.

The brutality of the police in the strike, and the government's plans to cover up truth were both disgraceful. http://www.theguardi




an.com/politics/2014




/jan/03/margaret-tha




tcher-secret-plan-ar




my-miners-strike

Even worse though was that the hard-working people who helped fuel the British economy and risked their lives for over a century to heat our homes were labelled as the 'enemy within'. The actions of the tories during the strike still shame our country.
Brutality of the police? Sorry remind me who killed the taxi driver?
The police stood between us and anarchy and they should be applauded. Had they lost there would not be any unions now that's for sure. Count how many there are in China
Sorry but that's total rubbish.
The miners strike of 1984-85 was only political on behalf of the government who wanted to silence opposition at any cost. The miners were striking for their jobs and for their communities, and to say anything other than that is a clear distortion of the truth.

And in response to regaturn. how would you define the actions of the police at orgreave if not brutal? It was probably the closest thing we've seen to what a 1984-style totalitarian police force. Watch the footage on youtube and elsewhere. It's frightening.
The police did not attack the homes of the few working miners, burn out their cars, beat working miners up in the street in front of their families,and they certainly did not kill David Wilkie!
[quote][p][bold]BassalegCountyFan[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ollie254[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]regaturn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BassalegCountyFan[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]_Bryan_[/bold] wrote: All this talk of ballot boxes reminded me of something. Way back in 1984, the NUM refused to ask its members whether they wanted to strike. The union leadership took the decision without reference to the members and then used mob rule and peer pressure to enforce the decision. I can't say I know which way such a strike vote would have gone, but its telling that when the miners were finally given a vote on the matter a year later, the majority voted to return to work.[/p][/quote]Those who returned to work in 1985 did so because they were starved into doing so. And actually, 93% of South Wales miners were still on strike in 1985. They were fighting not just for their jobs, not just for their rights at work, but for their communities. And you mention 'mob rule' and intimidation - isn't that exactly what the tory government's tactics were? That's what the newly released documents suggest, although sadly the bbc tried to shine attention away from this by putting on a conveniently-timed Scargill-bashing programme. The brutality of the police in the strike, and the government's plans to cover up truth were both disgraceful. http://www.theguardi an.com/politics/2014 /jan/03/margaret-tha tcher-secret-plan-ar my-miners-strike Even worse though was that the hard-working people who helped fuel the British economy and risked their lives for over a century to heat our homes were labelled as the 'enemy within'. The actions of the tories during the strike still shame our country.[/p][/quote]Brutality of the police? Sorry remind me who killed the taxi driver?[/p][/quote]The police stood between us and anarchy and they should be applauded. Had they lost there would not be any unions now that's for sure. Count how many there are in China[/p][/quote]Sorry but that's total rubbish. The miners strike of 1984-85 was only political on behalf of the government who wanted to silence opposition at any cost. The miners were striking for their jobs and for their communities, and to say anything other than that is a clear distortion of the truth. And in response to regaturn. how would you define the actions of the police at orgreave if not brutal? It was probably the closest thing we've seen to what a 1984-style totalitarian police force. Watch the footage on youtube and elsewhere. It's frightening.[/p][/quote]The police did not attack the homes of the few working miners, burn out their cars, beat working miners up in the street in front of their families,and they certainly did not kill David Wilkie! regaturn
  • Score: -1

8:58am Mon 20 Jan 14

Llanmartinangel says...

BassalegCountyFan wrote:
endthelies wrote:
Ollie254 wrote:
Dai37 wrote:
What is all this cobblers about the "noble hard working classes" I worked in the steel industry in the pre miners and steel strike years and I have to tell you it was a joke. Managers not allowed to manage! Despotic union officials, hell bent on disruption. Workers on ridiculous amounts of unnecessary fraudulent overtime. Those times certainly changed my political viewpoint . The Labour government of the time were ruled by the unions and it needed somebody with the balls to take them on, the rest is thankfully history.
Well said sir.
And look at what we were left with. Unemployment, deprivation, benefit dependency and empty shops. Yup, Maggie did us all a favour by making thousands redundant to make sure she finished off the unions!! I'm sure everyone in the valleys is eternally grateful. I think they should erect a statue in her 'honour' and let the valley folk show their 'gratitude' to her.
100% agreed endthelies.

As I've said before, trade unionists represent the best of what this country is about - ordinary people standing up for themselves - and what's so awful about thatcher is that she was hell-bent on destroying the collective bargaining power of ordinary people, even if it meant misery to thousands upon thousands of people in industrial communities for years to come - from Newport to the Valleys, the Midlands, the North and Scotland. Her government were a national disgrace, and as Allan Morris' letter correctly identifies they were even worse than that. They were a lying national disgrace.
We still have trade unions. Just not closed shops, flying pickets, sympathy strikes and industrial action without democratic ballots. What's so wrong with that?
[quote][p][bold]BassalegCountyFan[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]endthelies[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ollie254[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dai37[/bold] wrote: What is all this cobblers about the "noble hard working classes" I worked in the steel industry in the pre miners and steel strike years and I have to tell you it was a joke. Managers not allowed to manage! Despotic union officials, hell bent on disruption. Workers on ridiculous amounts of unnecessary fraudulent overtime. Those times certainly changed my political viewpoint . The Labour government of the time were ruled by the unions and it needed somebody with the balls to take them on, the rest is thankfully history.[/p][/quote]Well said sir.[/p][/quote]And look at what we were left with. Unemployment, deprivation, benefit dependency and empty shops. Yup, Maggie did us all a favour by making thousands redundant to make sure she finished off the unions!! I'm sure everyone in the valleys is eternally grateful. I think they should erect a statue in her 'honour' and let the valley folk show their 'gratitude' to her.[/p][/quote]100% agreed endthelies. As I've said before, trade unionists represent the best of what this country is about - ordinary people standing up for themselves - and what's so awful about thatcher is that she was hell-bent on destroying the collective bargaining power of ordinary people, even if it meant misery to thousands upon thousands of people in industrial communities for years to come - from Newport to the Valleys, the Midlands, the North and Scotland. Her government were a national disgrace, and as Allan Morris' letter correctly identifies they were even worse than that. They were a lying national disgrace.[/p][/quote]We still have trade unions. Just not closed shops, flying pickets, sympathy strikes and industrial action without democratic ballots. What's so wrong with that? Llanmartinangel
  • Score: 0

11:19am Mon 20 Jan 14

Ollie254 says...

regaturn wrote:
BassalegCountyFan wrote:
Ollie254 wrote:
regaturn wrote:
BassalegCountyFan wrote:
_Bryan_ wrote:
All this talk of ballot boxes reminded me of something. Way back in 1984, the NUM refused to ask its members whether they wanted to strike.

The union leadership took the decision without reference to the members and then used mob rule and peer pressure to enforce the decision. I can't say I know which way such a strike vote would have gone, but its telling that when the miners were finally given a vote on the matter a year later, the majority voted to return to work.
Those who returned to work in 1985 did so because they were starved into doing so. And actually, 93% of South Wales miners were still on strike in 1985. They were fighting not just for their jobs, not just for their rights at work, but for their communities.

And you mention 'mob rule' and intimidation - isn't that exactly what the tory government's tactics were? That's what the newly released documents suggest, although sadly the bbc tried to shine attention away from this by putting on a conveniently-timed Scargill-bashing programme.

The brutality of the police in the strike, and the government's plans to cover up truth were both disgraceful. http://www.theguardi





an.com/politics/2014





/jan/03/margaret-tha





tcher-secret-plan-ar





my-miners-strike

Even worse though was that the hard-working people who helped fuel the British economy and risked their lives for over a century to heat our homes were labelled as the 'enemy within'. The actions of the tories during the strike still shame our country.
Brutality of the police? Sorry remind me who killed the taxi driver?
The police stood between us and anarchy and they should be applauded. Had they lost there would not be any unions now that's for sure. Count how many there are in China
Sorry but that's total rubbish.
The miners strike of 1984-85 was only political on behalf of the government who wanted to silence opposition at any cost. The miners were striking for their jobs and for their communities, and to say anything other than that is a clear distortion of the truth.

And in response to regaturn. how would you define the actions of the police at orgreave if not brutal? It was probably the closest thing we've seen to what a 1984-style totalitarian police force. Watch the footage on youtube and elsewhere. It's frightening.
The police did not attack the homes of the few working miners, burn out their cars, beat working miners up in the street in front of their families,and they certainly did not kill David Wilkie!
The miners weren't being political.....give it a rest. It was the intention of Scargill and his buddies to bring down a democratically elected government. Scargill headed his own Socialist Workers Party and sought election in the years after the strike and used the miners as his foot soldiers to achieve his revolutionary aims. In addition at the start of the strike he urged the army to support them. What was to be next, storming the winter palace.
[quote][p][bold]regaturn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BassalegCountyFan[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ollie254[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]regaturn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BassalegCountyFan[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]_Bryan_[/bold] wrote: All this talk of ballot boxes reminded me of something. Way back in 1984, the NUM refused to ask its members whether they wanted to strike. The union leadership took the decision without reference to the members and then used mob rule and peer pressure to enforce the decision. I can't say I know which way such a strike vote would have gone, but its telling that when the miners were finally given a vote on the matter a year later, the majority voted to return to work.[/p][/quote]Those who returned to work in 1985 did so because they were starved into doing so. And actually, 93% of South Wales miners were still on strike in 1985. They were fighting not just for their jobs, not just for their rights at work, but for their communities. And you mention 'mob rule' and intimidation - isn't that exactly what the tory government's tactics were? That's what the newly released documents suggest, although sadly the bbc tried to shine attention away from this by putting on a conveniently-timed Scargill-bashing programme. The brutality of the police in the strike, and the government's plans to cover up truth were both disgraceful. http://www.theguardi an.com/politics/2014 /jan/03/margaret-tha tcher-secret-plan-ar my-miners-strike Even worse though was that the hard-working people who helped fuel the British economy and risked their lives for over a century to heat our homes were labelled as the 'enemy within'. The actions of the tories during the strike still shame our country.[/p][/quote]Brutality of the police? Sorry remind me who killed the taxi driver?[/p][/quote]The police stood between us and anarchy and they should be applauded. Had they lost there would not be any unions now that's for sure. Count how many there are in China[/p][/quote]Sorry but that's total rubbish. The miners strike of 1984-85 was only political on behalf of the government who wanted to silence opposition at any cost. The miners were striking for their jobs and for their communities, and to say anything other than that is a clear distortion of the truth. And in response to regaturn. how would you define the actions of the police at orgreave if not brutal? It was probably the closest thing we've seen to what a 1984-style totalitarian police force. Watch the footage on youtube and elsewhere. It's frightening.[/p][/quote]The police did not attack the homes of the few working miners, burn out their cars, beat working miners up in the street in front of their families,and they certainly did not kill David Wilkie![/p][/quote]The miners weren't being political.....give it a rest. It was the intention of Scargill and his buddies to bring down a democratically elected government. Scargill headed his own Socialist Workers Party and sought election in the years after the strike and used the miners as his foot soldiers to achieve his revolutionary aims. In addition at the start of the strike he urged the army to support them. What was to be next, storming the winter palace. Ollie254
  • Score: 0

12:29pm Mon 20 Jan 14

mr david says...

Yes we all rember the 70s@80sl look at the facts magie@den had a lot of shares in the coal@steel industry in u.s.a.. So she@den did well out of it.how many MPs today have shares over in the EU is this why we have no large industry in the UK.
Yes we all rember the 70s@80sl look at the facts magie@den had a lot of shares in the coal@steel industry in u.s.a.. So she@den did well out of it.how many MPs today have shares over in the EU is this why we have no large industry in the UK. mr david
  • Score: 3

1:21pm Tue 21 Jan 14

robrat41 says...

endthelies wrote:
blackandamber wrote:
endthelies wrote:
That means 52 % didn't want her elected then.
42% of the people that voted.
that still means 52% of the people that voted did not vote for her though.
Surely that should be 58%
[quote][p][bold]endthelies[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]blackandamber[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]endthelies[/bold] wrote: That means 52 % didn't want her elected then.[/p][/quote]42% of the people that voted.[/p][/quote]that still means 52% of the people that voted did not vote for her though.[/p][/quote]Surely that should be 58% robrat41
  • Score: 1

3:18pm Tue 21 Jan 14

endthelies says...

robrat41 wrote:
endthelies wrote:
blackandamber wrote:
endthelies wrote:
That means 52 % didn't want her elected then.
42% of the people that voted.
that still means 52% of the people that voted did not vote for her though.
Surely that should be 58%
Yes you're right :) My mistake
[quote][p][bold]robrat41[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]endthelies[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]blackandamber[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]endthelies[/bold] wrote: That means 52 % didn't want her elected then.[/p][/quote]42% of the people that voted.[/p][/quote]that still means 52% of the people that voted did not vote for her though.[/p][/quote]Surely that should be 58%[/p][/quote]Yes you're right :) My mistake endthelies
  • Score: 0

Comments are closed on this article.

click2find

About cookies

We want you to enjoy your visit to our website. That's why we use cookies to enhance your experience. By staying on our website you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more about the cookies we use.

I agree