Shift water rule

IN their evidence to the Silk Commission, the Labour in Wales Welsh Government wanted to see the National Assembly gain full control over all matters relating to Welsh water, yet in the final stages debate on the Water Bill last week, on Plaid Cymru’s amendment, every single Labour MP from Wales failed to turn up. Whether we are talking about energy, water or devolving Air Passenger Duty to Wales, the First Minister says one thing in Cardiff while Labour’s London based-MPs say something different.

Water is one aspect of our nation’s wealth of natural resources that our people are unable to benefit from its use due to the UK Government holding the power of veto over all matters relating to Welsh water. Control over our water needs to be transferred from Westminster to the National Assembly, so any wealth generated from its extraction, exploitation and export benefits our nation.

Labour, in Westminster or Wales, is only interested in conforming to the cosy Westminster consensus instead of putting the interests of the Welsh economy and people first.

Jonathan T Clark Allt-yr-yn Heights Newport

Comments (45)

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3:53pm Wed 15 Jan 14

Vox Dei says...

Water is one aspect of our nation’s wealth of natural resources, which is why the national government in Westminster is in control. For clueless Welsh nationalists rivers and watersheds do not conform to arbitrary regional boundaries.
Water is one aspect of our nation’s wealth of natural resources, which is why the national government in Westminster is in control. For clueless Welsh nationalists rivers and watersheds do not conform to arbitrary regional boundaries. Vox Dei

5:51pm Wed 15 Jan 14

Spinflight says...

Are you really surprised? One nation labour are hell bent on convincing middle england to vote for them. That one nation certainly doesn't relate to Wales....

www.ukipnewport.com
Are you really surprised? One nation labour are hell bent on convincing middle england to vote for them. That one nation certainly doesn't relate to Wales.... www.ukipnewport.com Spinflight

7:19pm Wed 15 Jan 14

Mervyn James says...

Been advocating the Assembly 'nationalise' welsh water for years, not least because we are paying more for our own water than England is. It is virtually the only natural resource we have left. Make England pay for our water.
Been advocating the Assembly 'nationalise' welsh water for years, not least because we are paying more for our own water than England is. It is virtually the only natural resource we have left. Make England pay for our water. Mervyn James

7:34pm Wed 15 Jan 14

Thinking heads says...

WALES MUST CONTROL IT'rS RESOURCES.
We now have a government in wales. With the demercratic right to hold our wealth in there hands. And raise the economy of wales you must not allow control to go on being dictated by people or a party in a minority the holds
you in such contempt.
And to any party in government must have the means to raise revenue and who better then the we send to the assembly.
NO MATTER WHAT PARTY WINS WE THE WELSH PEOPLE VOTED FOR IT DEMOCRATICLEY .

Read rape of the far country , we can never forgive?
WALES MUST CONTROL IT'rS RESOURCES. We now have a government in wales. With the demercratic right to hold our wealth in there hands. And raise the economy of wales you must not allow control to go on being dictated by people or a party in a minority the holds you in such contempt. And to any party in government must have the means to raise revenue and who better then the we send to the assembly. NO MATTER WHAT PARTY WINS WE THE WELSH PEOPLE VOTED FOR IT DEMOCRATICLEY . Read rape of the far country , we can never forgive? Thinking heads

7:52pm Wed 15 Jan 14

Vox Dei says...

Thinking heads you have fallen for the nationalist fantasy. Anywhere you use the word "Wales" you can substitute "UK". There is no perfect geographical area that is "just the right size" for everything. There is however a compelling geographical reason why you are wrong and it is this: Great Britain is AN ISLAND. Water resources don't adhere to arbitrary lines on a map, they flow across your imaginary all-important frontier as if it wasn't there. You have been reading too much Cordell sir.
Thinking heads you have fallen for the nationalist fantasy. Anywhere you use the word "Wales" you can substitute "UK". There is no perfect geographical area that is "just the right size" for everything. There is however a compelling geographical reason why you are wrong and it is this: Great Britain is AN ISLAND. Water resources don't adhere to arbitrary lines on a map, they flow across your imaginary all-important frontier as if it wasn't there. You have been reading too much Cordell sir. Vox Dei

8:41pm Wed 15 Jan 14

Thinking heads says...

NO
THE UNITED KINGDOM OF FOUR IT WAS FIVE WAIT IT COULD BY THREE IN COMING YEARS AND THEN WHO NOWS IT IN THE LAP OF THE WELSH PEOPLE.
THAT IM SORRY TO INFORM YOU IS DEMOCRATICLEY VIABLE AND WE THE WELSH PEOPLE WILL HAVE TO PAY TO GET OUT OF YOUR GRASP AND YOU WILL HAVE TO PAY FOR OUR RESOURCES. LIKE IF SCOTLAND DECIEDED TO LEAVE WITH THERE RESOURCES?
It seems to be having an effect England for some reason have noticed voice,s
that were never noticed but are being noted now?
I wonder what British government will offer next ?
But remember we are reading the small print.
We have learned that from anything that any British government of any colour.
NO THE UNITED KINGDOM OF FOUR IT WAS FIVE WAIT IT COULD BY THREE IN COMING YEARS AND THEN WHO NOWS IT IN THE LAP OF THE WELSH PEOPLE. THAT IM SORRY TO INFORM YOU IS DEMOCRATICLEY VIABLE AND WE THE WELSH PEOPLE WILL HAVE TO PAY TO GET OUT OF YOUR GRASP AND YOU WILL HAVE TO PAY FOR OUR RESOURCES. LIKE IF SCOTLAND DECIEDED TO LEAVE WITH THERE RESOURCES? It seems to be having an effect England for some reason have noticed voice,s that were never noticed but are being noted now? I wonder what British government will offer next ? But remember we are reading the small print. We have learned that from anything that any British government of any colour. Thinking heads

9:27pm Wed 15 Jan 14

Spinflight says...

Oil fields, shale gas and other resources don't respect national boundaries either but they are still resources.

Welsh water is, Welsh and constitutes the same thing. Whilst it would be easy to argue that it may merely be an accounting trick to list it as a benefit that misses the point. Anyone from across the border muttering about how Wales spends it's money and how much of that is subsidised ( whether indirect through the EU or not ) would be brought up short if they knew how many English towns and cities depended upon Welsh water.
Oil fields, shale gas and other resources don't respect national boundaries either but they are still resources. Welsh water is, Welsh and constitutes the same thing. Whilst it would be easy to argue that it may merely be an accounting trick to list it as a benefit that misses the point. Anyone from across the border muttering about how Wales spends it's money and how much of that is subsidised ( whether indirect through the EU or not ) would be brought up short if they knew how many English towns and cities depended upon Welsh water. Spinflight

9:27pm Wed 15 Jan 14

Frankfurt says...

Vox Dei wrote:
Thinking heads you have fallen for the nationalist fantasy. Anywhere you use the word "Wales" you can substitute "UK". There is no perfect geographical area that is "just the right size" for everything. There is however a compelling geographical reason why you are wrong and it is this: Great Britain is AN ISLAND. Water resources don't adhere to arbitrary lines on a map, they flow across your imaginary all-important frontier as if it wasn't there. You have been reading too much Cordell sir.
That's true. In fact Welsh water supply part of England, principally Hereford, for that very reason, that water catchments do not follow national boundaries. Similarly, part of mid-Wales is supplied by an English company who deal with the River Severn catchment.

I can't understand why anyone would want to drag water supply and sewers back into politics. The current with most of Wales is served by a not -for -profit company seems to work OK. There are far more pressing problems such as health and education which need attention.
[quote][p][bold]Vox Dei[/bold] wrote: Thinking heads you have fallen for the nationalist fantasy. Anywhere you use the word "Wales" you can substitute "UK". There is no perfect geographical area that is "just the right size" for everything. There is however a compelling geographical reason why you are wrong and it is this: Great Britain is AN ISLAND. Water resources don't adhere to arbitrary lines on a map, they flow across your imaginary all-important frontier as if it wasn't there. You have been reading too much Cordell sir.[/p][/quote]That's true. In fact Welsh water supply part of England, principally Hereford, for that very reason, that water catchments do not follow national boundaries. Similarly, part of mid-Wales is supplied by an English company who deal with the River Severn catchment. I can't understand why anyone would want to drag water supply and sewers back into politics. The current with most of Wales is served by a not -for -profit company seems to work OK. There are far more pressing problems such as health and education which need attention. Frankfurt

10:28pm Wed 15 Jan 14

Thinking heads says...

And they money and we are staved of that we and the other countries put the great in Britain and all we have got is a united kingdom of sorts where one part of the kingdom is trying to pull the wool over the others it takes two or in this case. Four to equal opportunities to the of this once great nation of the United Kingdom .
and stop trying to treat us like something you are stuck and you can wipe of your shoe?
or
maybe it is time for U.S.k? The United States of the Kingdom
And they money and we are staved of that we and the other countries put the great in Britain and all we have got is a united kingdom of sorts where one part of the kingdom is trying to pull the wool over the others it takes two or in this case. Four to equal opportunities to the of this once great nation of the United Kingdom . and stop trying to treat us like something you are stuck and you can wipe of your shoe? or maybe it is time for U.S.k? The United States of the Kingdom Thinking heads

8:01am Thu 16 Jan 14

pwlldu says...

That lind of thinking from Vox Dei says... let to the flooding of a Welsh valley, so Liverpool could get water. So why didn't the English government flood the lake district. Good old Boris want to pipe water from Wales to London and the south east of England during a drought period. So Monmouth county expect a local area to be flooded if he gets his way.
That lind of thinking from Vox Dei says... let to the flooding of a Welsh valley, so Liverpool could get water. So why didn't the English government flood the lake district. Good old Boris want to pipe water from Wales to London and the south east of England during a drought period. So Monmouth county expect a local area to be flooded if he gets his way. pwlldu

8:03am Thu 16 Jan 14

pwlldu says...

Wales supply parts of England with water and yet English customer have cheaper water bills than Welsh customers. Why is that.
Wales supply parts of England with water and yet English customer have cheaper water bills than Welsh customers. Why is that. pwlldu

8:07am Thu 16 Jan 14

pwlldu says...

So the USA is drilling for oil in the gulf of mexico and in Texas where some of the oil if under Mexico. The Saudies are drilling for oil under somone elses country. So it must be ok to take from another country, if that country is too thick to do anything about it.
So the USA is drilling for oil in the gulf of mexico and in Texas where some of the oil if under Mexico. The Saudies are drilling for oil under somone elses country. So it must be ok to take from another country, if that country is too thick to do anything about it. pwlldu

8:08am Thu 16 Jan 14

pwlldu says...

That kind of thinking from Vox Dei says... let to the flooding of a Welsh valley, so Liverpool could get water. So why didn't the English government flood the lake district. Good old Boris want to pipe water from Wales to London and the south east of England during a drought period. So Monmouth county expect a local area to be flooded if he gets his way.
That kind of thinking from Vox Dei says... let to the flooding of a Welsh valley, so Liverpool could get water. So why didn't the English government flood the lake district. Good old Boris want to pipe water from Wales to London and the south east of England during a drought period. So Monmouth county expect a local area to be flooded if he gets his way. pwlldu

8:36am Thu 16 Jan 14

Llanmartinangel says...

pwlldu wrote:
So the USA is drilling for oil in the gulf of mexico and in Texas where some of the oil if under Mexico. The Saudies are drilling for oil under somone elses country. So it must be ok to take from another country, if that country is too thick to do anything about it.
Mexico is a separate sovereign country from the US. Wales isn't separate from the UK. Mexico isn't receiving £10b pa from the US to prop it up either as Wales does. So you're hardly comparing like situations.
[quote][p][bold]pwlldu[/bold] wrote: So the USA is drilling for oil in the gulf of mexico and in Texas where some of the oil if under Mexico. The Saudies are drilling for oil under somone elses country. So it must be ok to take from another country, if that country is too thick to do anything about it.[/p][/quote]Mexico is a separate sovereign country from the US. Wales isn't separate from the UK. Mexico isn't receiving £10b pa from the US to prop it up either as Wales does. So you're hardly comparing like situations. Llanmartinangel

10:03am Thu 16 Jan 14

Thinking heads says...

Jest thinking ?
so how much do you think wales has contributed to to the wealth of great Britain.
IN WE SAY 200 YRS ?
Jest to get your thoughts out there?
Jest thinking ? so how much do you think wales has contributed to to the wealth of great Britain. IN WE SAY 200 YRS ? Jest to get your thoughts out there? Thinking heads

10:25am Thu 16 Jan 14

Frankfurt says...

pwlldu wrote:
Wales supply parts of England with water and yet English customer have cheaper water bills than Welsh customers. Why is that.
I think you'll find that water charges are dearer in some parts of England than they are in Wales. In particular in the south west.
[quote][p][bold]pwlldu[/bold] wrote: Wales supply parts of England with water and yet English customer have cheaper water bills than Welsh customers. Why is that.[/p][/quote]I think you'll find that water charges are dearer in some parts of England than they are in Wales. In particular in the south west. Frankfurt

10:31am Thu 16 Jan 14

_Bryan_ says...

Thinking Heads may be making a valid point, but since they don't appear to be wearing their "Communnicate clearly" head I can't be sure.

Resources such as water don't conform to political boundaries, but rather geographiccal ones. As such, it is impossible to describe it in terms of ownership - "our" water or "their" water.

You may as well charge England for using "our" air every time the wind blows from the West.
Thinking Heads may be making a valid point, but since they don't appear to be wearing their "Communnicate clearly" head I can't be sure. Resources such as water don't conform to political boundaries, but rather geographiccal ones. As such, it is impossible to describe it in terms of ownership - "our" water or "their" water. You may as well charge England for using "our" air every time the wind blows from the West. _Bryan_

11:43am Thu 16 Jan 14

county mad says...

_Bryan_ wrote:
Thinking Heads may be making a valid point, but since they don't appear to be wearing their "Communnicate clearly" head I can't be sure.

Resources such as water don't conform to political boundaries, but rather geographiccal ones. As such, it is impossible to describe it in terms of ownership - "our" water or "their" water.

You may as well charge England for using "our" air every time the wind blows from the West.
Oh dont give him more ammo Bryan he is confused enough as it is ,I bet someone has read a Plaid we can be free leaflet to him bless
[quote][p][bold]_Bryan_[/bold] wrote: Thinking Heads may be making a valid point, but since they don't appear to be wearing their "Communnicate clearly" head I can't be sure. Resources such as water don't conform to political boundaries, but rather geographiccal ones. As such, it is impossible to describe it in terms of ownership - "our" water or "their" water. You may as well charge England for using "our" air every time the wind blows from the West.[/p][/quote]Oh dont give him more ammo Bryan he is confused enough as it is ,I bet someone has read a Plaid we can be free leaflet to him bless county mad

12:03pm Thu 16 Jan 14

Llanmartinangel says...

Thinking heads wrote:
Jest thinking ?
so how much do you think wales has contributed to to the wealth of great Britain.
IN WE SAY 200 YRS ?
Jest to get your thoughts out there?
If we make today's political decisions based on what happened centuries ago we'd not be dealing with French for having King Harold's eye out. We are where we are. Better to deal with that don't you think?
[quote][p][bold]Thinking heads[/bold] wrote: Jest thinking ? so how much do you think wales has contributed to to the wealth of great Britain. IN WE SAY 200 YRS ? Jest to get your thoughts out there?[/p][/quote]If we make today's political decisions based on what happened centuries ago we'd not be dealing with French for having King Harold's eye out. We are where we are. Better to deal with that don't you think? Llanmartinangel

2:05pm Thu 16 Jan 14

jimmytheone2 says...

Spinflight wrote:
Oil fields, shale gas and other resources don't respect national boundaries either but they are still resources.

Welsh water is, Welsh and constitutes the same thing. Whilst it would be easy to argue that it may merely be an accounting trick to list it as a benefit that misses the point. Anyone from across the border muttering about how Wales spends it's money and how much of that is subsidised ( whether indirect through the EU or not ) would be brought up short if they knew how many English towns and cities depended upon Welsh water.
How do you know the water is Welsh? does it speak Welsh?
I not, should the Welsh Govenment be spending money on teaching it to speak Welsh to help keep the language alive.

I think we should teach the water to speak welsh. It will give it an edge against water from other coutries. I bet French water can't speak French. You know it makes sense.
[quote][p][bold]Spinflight[/bold] wrote: Oil fields, shale gas and other resources don't respect national boundaries either but they are still resources. Welsh water is, Welsh and constitutes the same thing. Whilst it would be easy to argue that it may merely be an accounting trick to list it as a benefit that misses the point. Anyone from across the border muttering about how Wales spends it's money and how much of that is subsidised ( whether indirect through the EU or not ) would be brought up short if they knew how many English towns and cities depended upon Welsh water.[/p][/quote]How do you know the water is Welsh? does it speak Welsh? I not, should the Welsh Govenment be spending money on teaching it to speak Welsh to help keep the language alive. I think we should teach the water to speak welsh. It will give it an edge against water from other coutries. I bet French water can't speak French. You know it makes sense. jimmytheone2

3:03pm Thu 16 Jan 14

Thinking heads says...

I note the question asked was what do you think wales has contributed to great Britain?
As I expected you did not answer? I will make it easy what has the welsh nation contributed to great Britain in the 100 years ?
Now are you going answer or fug and wofflon on .
I note the question asked was what do you think wales has contributed to great Britain? As I expected you did not answer? I will make it easy what has the welsh nation contributed to great Britain in the 100 years ? Now are you going answer or fug and wofflon on . Thinking heads

3:20pm Thu 16 Jan 14

Llanmartinangel says...

Thinking heads wrote:
I note the question asked was what do you think wales has contributed to great Britain?
As I expected you did not answer? I will make it easy what has the welsh nation contributed to great Britain in the 100 years ?
Now are you going answer or fug and wofflon on .
Every part of the UK has contributed in some way hasn't it? Cornwall was tin, Yorkshire textiles, Scotland shipbuilding (along with NI) and drink export, various British inventors and engineers etc. I'm not sure what the question is. Are you suggesting Wales is somehow different?
[quote][p][bold]Thinking heads[/bold] wrote: I note the question asked was what do you think wales has contributed to great Britain? As I expected you did not answer? I will make it easy what has the welsh nation contributed to great Britain in the 100 years ? Now are you going answer or fug and wofflon on .[/p][/quote]Every part of the UK has contributed in some way hasn't it? Cornwall was tin, Yorkshire textiles, Scotland shipbuilding (along with NI) and drink export, various British inventors and engineers etc. I'm not sure what the question is. Are you suggesting Wales is somehow different? Llanmartinangel

3:35pm Thu 16 Jan 14

pwlldu says...

Frankfurt says... compare to cost of water to the cost of living in various areas and Wales pay more for it water.
Frankfurt says... compare to cost of water to the cost of living in various areas and Wales pay more for it water. pwlldu

3:38pm Thu 16 Jan 14

pwlldu says...

Llanmartinangel says... what prove have you got that the USA are extracting a seam of oil which also runs under Mexico. £10b pound would easy be made if Wales become independant.
Llanmartinangel says... what prove have you got that the USA are extracting a seam of oil which also runs under Mexico. £10b pound would easy be made if Wales become independant. pwlldu

3:51pm Thu 16 Jan 14

Llanmartinangel says...

pwlldu wrote:
Llanmartinangel says... what prove have you got that the USA are extracting a seam of oil which also runs under Mexico. £10b pound would easy be made if Wales become independant.
No proof at all it was you that suggested it. '£10b could easily be made up ....' Errr, by 3 million people of which well under half pay any tax at all let alone are positive contributors. And if you increase taxes on those net contributors why would they choose not to hop a few miles to England to live?And then what? It's why no-one with a grasp of economics even mentions independence any more. The prospect of a banana republic just isn't appealing to anyone. (Except you it seems).
[quote][p][bold]pwlldu[/bold] wrote: Llanmartinangel says... what prove have you got that the USA are extracting a seam of oil which also runs under Mexico. £10b pound would easy be made if Wales become independant.[/p][/quote]No proof at all it was you that suggested it. '£10b could easily be made up ....' Errr, by 3 million people of which well under half pay any tax at all let alone are positive contributors. And if you increase taxes on those net contributors why would they choose not to hop a few miles to England to live?And then what? It's why no-one with a grasp of economics even mentions independence any more. The prospect of a banana republic just isn't appealing to anyone. (Except you it seems). Llanmartinangel

5:14pm Thu 16 Jan 14

Thinking heads says...

Still wofflon on and fuge it's sticks in you're throat ?
and im not in or associated with any party .
I'm we are sitting on the fence looking for answers?.we must be looking in the wrong place you don't seem to have any only biased political ones not straight ?
Not equal opportunities for all in these nation's who happen to dwell in these island's .
Without one having to master of all?
That is not demercratic.
Still wofflon on and fuge it's sticks in you're throat ? and im not in or associated with any party . I'm we are sitting on the fence looking for answers?.we must be looking in the wrong place you don't seem to have any only biased political ones not straight ? Not equal opportunities for all in these nation's who happen to dwell in these island's . Without one having to master of all? That is not demercratic. Thinking heads

5:54pm Thu 16 Jan 14

Frankfurt says...

pwlldu wrote:
Frankfurt says... compare to cost of water to the cost of living in various areas and Wales pay more for it water.
Pwlldu, I can't understand the point you're making. But to make my point clear the household average figures for the 10 large regional operators are, for households, this year, for water and sewerage combined :-

Welsh £434
Anglian £434
South West £499
Southern £449
Wessex £478
Severn Trent £335
United Utilities £406
Thames £354
Yorks £368
Northumbrian £359

So services are cheaper in Wales than 3 English regions and the same as another English region.
[quote][p][bold]pwlldu[/bold] wrote: Frankfurt says... compare to cost of water to the cost of living in various areas and Wales pay more for it water.[/p][/quote]Pwlldu, I can't understand the point you're making. But to make my point clear the household average figures for the 10 large regional operators are, for households, this year, for water and sewerage combined :- Welsh £434 Anglian £434 South West £499 Southern £449 Wessex £478 Severn Trent £335 United Utilities £406 Thames £354 Yorks £368 Northumbrian £359 So services are cheaper in Wales than 3 English regions and the same as another English region. Frankfurt

5:58pm Thu 16 Jan 14

Stevenboy says...

Thinking heads wrote:
Still wofflon on and fuge it's sticks in you're throat ?
and im not in or associated with any party .
I'm we are sitting on the fence looking for answers?.we must be looking in the wrong place you don't seem to have any only biased political ones not straight ?
Not equal opportunities for all in these nation's who happen to dwell in these island's .
Without one having to master of all?
That is not demercratic.
Jesus. At least Llanmartin's posts are understandable and logical. You seem to speak fluent jibberish.

'.we must be looking in the wrong place you don't seem to have any only biased political ones not straight ?'

What the Donald Duck does that mean?
[quote][p][bold]Thinking heads[/bold] wrote: Still wofflon on and fuge it's sticks in you're throat ? and im not in or associated with any party . I'm we are sitting on the fence looking for answers?.we must be looking in the wrong place you don't seem to have any only biased political ones not straight ? Not equal opportunities for all in these nation's who happen to dwell in these island's . Without one having to master of all? That is not demercratic.[/p][/quote]Jesus. At least Llanmartin's posts are understandable and logical. You seem to speak fluent jibberish. '.we must be looking in the wrong place you don't seem to have any only biased political ones not straight ?' What the Donald Duck does that mean? Stevenboy

8:02am Fri 17 Jan 14

pwlldu says...

Frankfurt says... factor in the cost of wages and as Wales is the lowest wages Wales pay more for its water.
Frankfurt says... factor in the cost of wages and as Wales is the lowest wages Wales pay more for its water. pwlldu

8:08am Fri 17 Jan 14

pwlldu says...

Llanmartinangel says... Independance is a long term dream, which is well within our grasp. After all who would have thought Wales would have had an Assembly which got less powers than Scotland and NI. When Wales become richer, if england lets us. The we can talk about independance but until then lets work together to improve the living standards of all who live in Wales. Plaid Cymru is the only party that can change the minds of London governments. All the other 3 parties have failed Wales and the results show this fact. Wales is bottom of most league tables and top of the poverty list.
Llanmartinangel says... Independance is a long term dream, which is well within our grasp. After all who would have thought Wales would have had an Assembly which got less powers than Scotland and NI. When Wales become richer, if england lets us. The we can talk about independance but until then lets work together to improve the living standards of all who live in Wales. Plaid Cymru is the only party that can change the minds of London governments. All the other 3 parties have failed Wales and the results show this fact. Wales is bottom of most league tables and top of the poverty list. pwlldu

1:32pm Fri 17 Jan 14

_Bryan_ says...

"Wales become richer, if england lets us"

At present, Wales will only become richer if England increases the amount of subsidy that currently flows across the border. With councils and MP seats permanently occupied by Labour and Plaid candidates the chances of the Welsh economy improving enough to ever be self-supporting is nothing but an unrealisable dream.
"Wales become richer, if england lets us" At present, Wales will only become richer if England increases the amount of subsidy that currently flows across the border. With councils and MP seats permanently occupied by Labour and Plaid candidates the chances of the Welsh economy improving enough to ever be self-supporting is nothing but an unrealisable dream. _Bryan_

2:23pm Fri 17 Jan 14

Llanmartinangel says...

pwlldu wrote:
Llanmartinangel says... Independance is a long term dream, which is well within our grasp. After all who would have thought Wales would have had an Assembly which got less powers than Scotland and NI. When Wales become richer, if england lets us. The we can talk about independance but until then lets work together to improve the living standards of all who live in Wales. Plaid Cymru is the only party that can change the minds of London governments. All the other 3 parties have failed Wales and the results show this fact. Wales is bottom of most league tables and top of the poverty list.
How can it be 'well within your grasp' and 'a long term dream'? Surely those two phrases are contradictory. Plaid Cymru's whole philosophy is based on an illusion. Brand Wales. A marketing ploy aimed at the gullible. So backward and parochial is their thinking that they even floated the idea of guaranteeing medical school recruitment to 1000 Welsh speaking students this week. I'm sure the guy who died waiting for an ambulance recently or those who never lived to reach the top of the cardiac waiting lists would have been thrilled to know that they could have been spoken to in Welsh just before they expired.
[quote][p][bold]pwlldu[/bold] wrote: Llanmartinangel says... Independance is a long term dream, which is well within our grasp. After all who would have thought Wales would have had an Assembly which got less powers than Scotland and NI. When Wales become richer, if england lets us. The we can talk about independance but until then lets work together to improve the living standards of all who live in Wales. Plaid Cymru is the only party that can change the minds of London governments. All the other 3 parties have failed Wales and the results show this fact. Wales is bottom of most league tables and top of the poverty list.[/p][/quote]How can it be 'well within your grasp' and 'a long term dream'? Surely those two phrases are contradictory. Plaid Cymru's whole philosophy is based on an illusion. Brand Wales. A marketing ploy aimed at the gullible. So backward and parochial is their thinking that they even floated the idea of guaranteeing medical school recruitment to 1000 Welsh speaking students this week. I'm sure the guy who died waiting for an ambulance recently or those who never lived to reach the top of the cardiac waiting lists would have been thrilled to know that they could have been spoken to in Welsh just before they expired. Llanmartinangel

3:37pm Fri 17 Jan 14

pwlldu says...

Llanmartinangel says... Wales is the only country in the world that has its own language, sporting teams but yet hang on to an out dated british empire. Every other country that was ruled by the British gained their independance and take it for granted. The idea of being British is dead, not including the O. Games when talk is about Britian but only English athlettes gets the mention. The trouble with, there as been a influx of English which have diluted Welsh nationalist. keep feeding the poor Welsh on bread and water, just enough to make them want England.
Llanmartinangel says... Wales is the only country in the world that has its own language, sporting teams but yet hang on to an out dated british empire. Every other country that was ruled by the British gained their independance and take it for granted. The idea of being British is dead, not including the O. Games when talk is about Britian but only English athlettes gets the mention. The trouble with, there as been a influx of English which have diluted Welsh nationalist. keep feeding the poor Welsh on bread and water, just enough to make them want England. pwlldu

4:01pm Fri 17 Jan 14

Llanmartinangel says...

pwlldu wrote:
Llanmartinangel says... Wales is the only country in the world that has its own language, sporting teams but yet hang on to an out dated british empire. Every other country that was ruled by the British gained their independance and take it for granted. The idea of being British is dead, not including the O. Games when talk is about Britian but only English athlettes gets the mention. The trouble with, there as been a influx of English which have diluted Welsh nationalist. keep feeding the poor Welsh on bread and water, just enough to make them want England.
The 'country' is the UK, not Wales. It was part of Britain during the 'British Empire' so was part of the ruler rather than one of the ruled. Cornwall has it's own language apparently but if that were the criteria for self-rule then surely around 20% of the land area known as Wales would be independent and that wouldn't include Cardiff.
[quote][p][bold]pwlldu[/bold] wrote: Llanmartinangel says... Wales is the only country in the world that has its own language, sporting teams but yet hang on to an out dated british empire. Every other country that was ruled by the British gained their independance and take it for granted. The idea of being British is dead, not including the O. Games when talk is about Britian but only English athlettes gets the mention. The trouble with, there as been a influx of English which have diluted Welsh nationalist. keep feeding the poor Welsh on bread and water, just enough to make them want England.[/p][/quote]The 'country' is the UK, not Wales. It was part of Britain during the 'British Empire' so was part of the ruler rather than one of the ruled. Cornwall has it's own language apparently but if that were the criteria for self-rule then surely around 20% of the land area known as Wales would be independent and that wouldn't include Cardiff. Llanmartinangel

5:57pm Fri 17 Jan 14

Vox Dei says...

Llanmartinangel, arguing with these people is futile. They seem to think that they are somehow special and that their arbitrary geographical area is somehow massively hard done by. Mixing up statistics for sovereign states and sub-national regions to twist the facts and further their hard luck story. No-one is fooled.
Llanmartinangel, arguing with these people is futile. They seem to think that they are somehow special and that their arbitrary geographical area is somehow massively hard done by. Mixing up statistics for sovereign states and sub-national regions to twist the facts and further their hard luck story. No-one is fooled. Vox Dei

11:10am Sat 18 Jan 14

pwlldu says...

Vox Dei says... & Llanmartinangel says... with that argument then you argee to an united Ireland. Our you can have the same on Mainland UK as today Ireland countries with borders. English independence is seen by its advocates as a way to resolve the West Lothian question in British politics: Scottish and Welsh MPs in the Parliament of the United Kingdom at Westminster can vote on matters affecting England, while English MPs do not have the same power over equivalent issues in Scotland or Wales, as these powers are devolved to the Scottish Parliament or the National Assembly for Wales. It will be England that will gain indpendence before Wales.
Vox Dei says... & Llanmartinangel says... with that argument then you argee to an united Ireland. Our you can have the same on Mainland UK as today Ireland countries with borders. English independence is seen by its advocates as a way to resolve the West Lothian question in British politics: Scottish and Welsh MPs in the Parliament of the United Kingdom at Westminster can vote on matters affecting England, while English MPs do not have the same power over equivalent issues in Scotland or Wales, as these powers are devolved to the Scottish Parliament or the National Assembly for Wales. It will be England that will gain indpendence before Wales. pwlldu

12:54pm Sat 18 Jan 14

Llanmartinangel says...

pwlldu wrote:
Vox Dei says... & Llanmartinangel says... with that argument then you argee to an united Ireland. Our you can have the same on Mainland UK as today Ireland countries with borders. English independence is seen by its advocates as a way to resolve the West Lothian question in British politics: Scottish and Welsh MPs in the Parliament of the United Kingdom at Westminster can vote on matters affecting England, while English MPs do not have the same power over equivalent issues in Scotland or Wales, as these powers are devolved to the Scottish Parliament or the National Assembly for Wales. It will be England that will gain indpendence before Wales.
Dear God. The Irish border issue is a modern aberration (1920). There is no Welsh border that anyone would be able to identify. Should Monmouthshire be lumped in with the likes of Ceredigion? Definitely not.
[quote][p][bold]pwlldu[/bold] wrote: Vox Dei says... & Llanmartinangel says... with that argument then you argee to an united Ireland. Our you can have the same on Mainland UK as today Ireland countries with borders. English independence is seen by its advocates as a way to resolve the West Lothian question in British politics: Scottish and Welsh MPs in the Parliament of the United Kingdom at Westminster can vote on matters affecting England, while English MPs do not have the same power over equivalent issues in Scotland or Wales, as these powers are devolved to the Scottish Parliament or the National Assembly for Wales. It will be England that will gain indpendence before Wales.[/p][/quote]Dear God. The Irish border issue is a modern aberration (1920). There is no Welsh border that anyone would be able to identify. Should Monmouthshire be lumped in with the likes of Ceredigion? Definitely not. Llanmartinangel

8:03am Mon 20 Jan 14

pwlldu says...

The English / Welsh border was established the day the English looked across the land to the west and called it Wales land of the foreigner. During that time Monmouthshire was a no mans land where Welsh tribes fought English Saxon tribes. It was claimed by the Welsh side and now is part of Wales. Once upon a time English counties spoke a sort of Welsh before the Romans, Saxons and Normans invaded England.
The English / Welsh border was established the day the English looked across the land to the west and called it Wales land of the foreigner. During that time Monmouthshire was a no mans land where Welsh tribes fought English Saxon tribes. It was claimed by the Welsh side and now is part of Wales. Once upon a time English counties spoke a sort of Welsh before the Romans, Saxons and Normans invaded England. pwlldu

8:06am Mon 20 Jan 14

pwlldu says...

Should Monmouthshire be lumped in with the likes of Ceredigion? Definitely not. That is like saying should Cornwall be lumped in with Kent. Sadly Monmouthshire never felt Welsh but English.
Should Monmouthshire be lumped in with the likes of Ceredigion? Definitely not. That is like saying should Cornwall be lumped in with Kent. Sadly Monmouthshire never felt Welsh but English. pwlldu

8:18am Mon 20 Jan 14

pwlldu says...

Before William of Orange parachuted the Protestant faith from Scotland, Ireland had no borders. It was an island made up of various tribes.
The historic county of Monmouthshire was formed from the Welsh Marches by the Laws in Wales Act 1535, bordering Gloucestershire to the east, Herefordshire to the northeast, Brecknockshire to the north, and Glamorgan to the west. The second Laws in Wales Act of 1542 enumerated the counties of Wales and omitted Monmouthshire – This led to ambiguity as to whether the county was part of Wales or England. Since local government changes in April 1974 the area has been placed definitively in Wales.
Before William of Orange parachuted the Protestant faith from Scotland, Ireland had no borders. It was an island made up of various tribes. The historic county of Monmouthshire was formed from the Welsh Marches by the Laws in Wales Act 1535, bordering Gloucestershire to the east, Herefordshire to the northeast, Brecknockshire to the north, and Glamorgan to the west. The second Laws in Wales Act of 1542 enumerated the counties of Wales and omitted Monmouthshire – This led to ambiguity as to whether the county was part of Wales or England. Since local government changes in April 1974 the area has been placed definitively in Wales. pwlldu

8:06am Tue 21 Jan 14

pwlldu says...

I hope all you anti Welsh had a chance to watch BBC 4 Monday 8pm King Alfred and the Anglo Saxons. In the programme the experts mentioned scholars and scribes came from Wales and Ireland to help translate Latin books.
I hope all you anti Welsh had a chance to watch BBC 4 Monday 8pm King Alfred and the Anglo Saxons. In the programme the experts mentioned scholars and scribes came from Wales and Ireland to help translate Latin books. pwlldu

9:12am Tue 21 Jan 14

Newport Citizen says...

pwlldu wrote:
I hope all you anti Welsh had a chance to watch BBC 4 Monday 8pm King Alfred and the Anglo Saxons. In the programme the experts mentioned scholars and scribes came from Wales and Ireland to help translate Latin books.
Relevant how?
[quote][p][bold]pwlldu[/bold] wrote: I hope all you anti Welsh had a chance to watch BBC 4 Monday 8pm King Alfred and the Anglo Saxons. In the programme the experts mentioned scholars and scribes came from Wales and Ireland to help translate Latin books.[/p][/quote]Relevant how? Newport Citizen

10:17am Tue 21 Jan 14

pwlldu says...

Newport Citizen says... An open copy to the ones who believe Wales doesn't have the right to sit on the international table as an independant country.
Newport Citizen says... An open copy to the ones who believe Wales doesn't have the right to sit on the international table as an independant country. pwlldu

10:34am Tue 21 Jan 14

Militibus Oppressi says...

pwlldu wrote:
Newport Citizen says... An open copy to the ones who believe Wales doesn't have the right to sit on the international table as an independant country.
It doesn't, because it isn't and shouldn't be.
[quote][p][bold]pwlldu[/bold] wrote: Newport Citizen says... An open copy to the ones who believe Wales doesn't have the right to sit on the international table as an independant country.[/p][/quote]It doesn't, because it isn't and shouldn't be. Militibus Oppressi

4:52pm Thu 23 Jan 14

pwlldu says...

The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR) formally ceased to exist on 26 December 1991. On this day, the dissolution of the Soviet Union was finalized by declaration no. 142-H of the Soviet of the Republics of the Supreme Soviet of the Soviet Union, acknowledging the independence of the twelve republics of the Soviet Union that created the Commonwealth of Independent States.
Post-Soviet states in alphabetical order:
1. Armenia, 2. Azerbaijan, 3. Belarus, 4. Estonia, 5. Georgia, 6. Kazakhstan, 7. Kyrgyzstan, 8. Latvia, 9. Lithuania, 10. Moldova, 11. Russia, 12. Tajikistan, 13. Turkmenistan, 14. Ukraine, 15. Uzbekistan The world rejoiced, so why can't Wales get the same.
The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR) formally ceased to exist on 26 December 1991. On this day, the dissolution of the Soviet Union was finalized by declaration no. 142-H of the Soviet of the Republics of the Supreme Soviet of the Soviet Union,[1] acknowledging the independence of the twelve republics of the Soviet Union that created the Commonwealth of Independent States. Post-Soviet states in alphabetical order: 1. Armenia, 2. Azerbaijan, 3. Belarus, 4. Estonia, 5. Georgia, 6. Kazakhstan, 7. Kyrgyzstan, 8. Latvia, 9. Lithuania, 10. Moldova, 11. Russia, 12. Tajikistan, 13. Turkmenistan, 14. Ukraine, 15. Uzbekistan The world rejoiced, so why can't Wales get the same. pwlldu

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