Language query

First published in Letters

OVER the past 20 years I have read with interest the many differing letters in this section and those supporting the Welsh language and most importantly the bilingual language with utter disbelief and shame. The billions of pounds that have been wasted on learning our children this language, the ridiculous road signs and the cost of printing bilingual documents, while councils and health services have had to make cuts, libraries have closed, meals on wheels disbanded, etc, etc.

What is the economic viability of this archaic language and where does it stand in the modern world?

Warren Lewis Pontypool Gwent

Comments (17)

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3:43pm Mon 10 Mar 14

dailoco says...

Most of us think the same about the Welsh Language and the money wasted.
I feel there would be less negative letters published in this column if the option was given to Welsh speaking people to be sent Welsh only forms ect if they sign up for them. This would allow English only forms ect to be sent out to the rest of the people of Wales,surely this would cut down the costly waste of paper as we all are guilty of throwing the Welsh forms in the bin.
This might sound simplistic but should appease all but the miopic hard liners.
Most of us think the same about the Welsh Language and the money wasted. I feel there would be less negative letters published in this column if the option was given to Welsh speaking people to be sent Welsh only forms ect if they sign up for them. This would allow English only forms ect to be sent out to the rest of the people of Wales,surely this would cut down the costly waste of paper as we all are guilty of throwing the Welsh forms in the bin. This might sound simplistic but should appease all but the miopic hard liners. dailoco
  • Score: -6

5:06pm Mon 10 Mar 14

BobEvams2014 says...

A report has stated that with the money Wales wastes on the Welsh Language we could rebuild every hospital and school, employ double the amount of teachers, doctors and nurses and clear the UK deficit .

This language should be made illeagal and any caught speaking it, anywhere should be arrested and charged with wasting public money .
A report has stated that with the money Wales wastes on the Welsh Language we could rebuild every hospital and school, employ double the amount of teachers, doctors and nurses and clear the UK deficit . This language should be made illeagal and any caught speaking it, anywhere should be arrested and charged with wasting public money . BobEvams2014
  • Score: -6

6:18pm Mon 10 Mar 14

Banjalucka says...

Here we go again!
Here we go again! Banjalucka
  • Score: -10

6:33pm Mon 10 Mar 14

Mervyn James says...

It's like a stuck record isn't it ?
It's like a stuck record isn't it ? Mervyn James
  • Score: -15

7:14pm Mon 10 Mar 14

scraptheWAG says...

Mervyn James wrote:
It's like a stuck record isn't it ?
yes and it will remain stuck i am sick of seeing that fat wind bag carwyn jones blaming all the ills of wales and yes their are loads on the coalition whilst wasting billions on stupidity.
[quote][p][bold]Mervyn James[/bold] wrote: It's like a stuck record isn't it ?[/p][/quote]yes and it will remain stuck i am sick of seeing that fat wind bag carwyn jones blaming all the ills of wales and yes their are loads on the coalition whilst wasting billions on stupidity. scraptheWAG
  • Score: 13

7:16pm Mon 10 Mar 14

scraptheWAG says...

BobEvams2014 wrote:
A report has stated that with the money Wales wastes on the Welsh Language we could rebuild every hospital and school, employ double the amount of teachers, doctors and nurses and clear the UK deficit .

This language should be made illeagal and any caught speaking it, anywhere should be arrested and charged with wasting public money .
couple of hundred million a year on welsh language 500 million a year on the WAG, airport subsidy empty planes to anglesey yes it could revitalise large parts of wales you are quite correct but you go on believing good old uncle carwyn
[quote][p][bold]BobEvams2014[/bold] wrote: A report has stated that with the money Wales wastes on the Welsh Language we could rebuild every hospital and school, employ double the amount of teachers, doctors and nurses and clear the UK deficit . This language should be made illeagal and any caught speaking it, anywhere should be arrested and charged with wasting public money .[/p][/quote]couple of hundred million a year on welsh language 500 million a year on the WAG, airport subsidy empty planes to anglesey yes it could revitalise large parts of wales you are quite correct but you go on believing good old uncle carwyn scraptheWAG
  • Score: 12

9:25pm Mon 10 Mar 14

pwlldu says...

Why can't Wales be a bilingual country like so many countries of the world. Are we that third world or so tied to the English language.
Why can't Wales be a bilingual country like so many countries of the world. Are we that third world or so tied to the English language. pwlldu
  • Score: -13

9:30pm Mon 10 Mar 14

pwlldu says...

I bought a washing machine made in Japan and there was every Language in the instruction manuel. Talk about wasting money the Iraq war cost wouldh have paid for the Welsh language for years to come. The cost of the London dome, the London O. games would have been enough to run a small country for years.
I bought a washing machine made in Japan and there was every Language in the instruction manuel. Talk about wasting money the Iraq war cost wouldh have paid for the Welsh language for years to come. The cost of the London dome, the London O. games would have been enough to run a small country for years. pwlldu
  • Score: -14

10:05pm Mon 10 Mar 14

Llanmartinangel says...

pwlldu wrote:
I bought a washing machine made in Japan and there was every Language in the instruction manuel. Talk about wasting money the Iraq war cost wouldh have paid for the Welsh language for years to come. The cost of the London dome, the London O. games would have been enough to run a small country for years.
'Instruction manuel'. Wasn't he in fawlty towers?
[quote][p][bold]pwlldu[/bold] wrote: I bought a washing machine made in Japan and there was every Language in the instruction manuel. Talk about wasting money the Iraq war cost wouldh have paid for the Welsh language for years to come. The cost of the London dome, the London O. games would have been enough to run a small country for years.[/p][/quote]'Instruction manuel'. Wasn't he in fawlty towers? Llanmartinangel
  • Score: 11

2:25am Tue 11 Mar 14

Spinflight says...

I'm sure during the referendum campaign some elected scumbag or other claimed the assembly would cost no more than £12 million per year. Its more than 30 times that amount now..

ukipnewport.com
I'm sure during the referendum campaign some elected scumbag or other claimed the assembly would cost no more than £12 million per year. Its more than 30 times that amount now.. ukipnewport.com Spinflight
  • Score: 10

8:18am Tue 11 Mar 14

Mervyn James says...

pwlldu wrote:
Why can't Wales be a bilingual country like so many countries of the world. Are we that third world or so tied to the English language.
Quite so, not one of the welsh haters said a dicky bird about the 100s of £1,000s spent just on interpreters for the police, or, 11 TIMES as much spent on providing access for our migrant population to access services in Wales, completely unopposed and their rights to ignore English enshrined in our law,well, so is Welsh,so why the disparity ? The whingers just pick the easy targets, be it the welsh language, or their religions, an aunt sally they never tire of having a go at, the challenge for them (Should they accept !),is to oppose polish, Urdu, Bengali and the 35 other languages used here in Wales, on the same grounds, after all how many of the anti-welsh brigade actually use those languages ? If they want to start maybe the Gwent Hospital ? where access in written and interpreter formats are freely given there, maybe ask how much THAT is costing our NHS, would that not be racists in operation to oppose ? and illegal ? (Just like the anti-welsh lobby in fact). Any FOI request will tell you the exact cost of it all, why not ask ?
[quote][p][bold]pwlldu[/bold] wrote: Why can't Wales be a bilingual country like so many countries of the world. Are we that third world or so tied to the English language.[/p][/quote]Quite so, not one of the welsh haters said a dicky bird about the 100s of £1,000s spent just on interpreters for the police, or, 11 TIMES as much spent on providing access for our migrant population to access services in Wales, completely unopposed and their rights to ignore English enshrined in our law,well, so is Welsh,so why the disparity ? The whingers just pick the easy targets, be it the welsh language, or their religions, an aunt sally they never tire of having a go at, the challenge for them (Should they accept !),is to oppose polish, Urdu, Bengali and the 35 other languages used here in Wales, on the same grounds, after all how many of the anti-welsh brigade actually use those languages ? If they want to start maybe the Gwent Hospital ? where access in written and interpreter formats are freely given there, maybe ask how much THAT is costing our NHS, would that not be racists in operation to oppose ? and illegal ? (Just like the anti-welsh lobby in fact). Any FOI request will tell you the exact cost of it all, why not ask ? Mervyn James
  • Score: -9

1:40pm Tue 11 Mar 14

Walter Devereux says...

Ironically this letter contains basic grammatical errors in English, and then ends with an address using a Welsh-language name!
Ironically this letter contains basic grammatical errors in English, and then ends with an address using a Welsh-language name! Walter Devereux
  • Score: 4

2:40pm Tue 11 Mar 14

Llanmartinangel says...

Mervyn James wrote:
pwlldu wrote:
Why can't Wales be a bilingual country like so many countries of the world. Are we that third world or so tied to the English language.
Quite so, not one of the welsh haters said a dicky bird about the 100s of £1,000s spent just on interpreters for the police, or, 11 TIMES as much spent on providing access for our migrant population to access services in Wales, completely unopposed and their rights to ignore English enshrined in our law,well, so is Welsh,so why the disparity ? The whingers just pick the easy targets, be it the welsh language, or their religions, an aunt sally they never tire of having a go at, the challenge for them (Should they accept !),is to oppose polish, Urdu, Bengali and the 35 other languages used here in Wales, on the same grounds, after all how many of the anti-welsh brigade actually use those languages ? If they want to start maybe the Gwent Hospital ? where access in written and interpreter formats are freely given there, maybe ask how much THAT is costing our NHS, would that not be racists in operation to oppose ? and illegal ? (Just like the anti-welsh lobby in fact). Any FOI request will tell you the exact cost of it all, why not ask ?
I think you'll find most of the complainants against scattergun spending on Welsh just as annoyed about any kind of interpreters funded from taxation. Politicians are very fond of telling us immigrants come here to contribute - well not if they can't speak English they don't. But that doesn't mean we should ignore the huge cost of the way Welsh policy is enforced here and how little it is actually needed. No-one has yet explained why less than 3% of Welsh investors used NSA's Welsh language service when they claim there are 19% speaking it. It's because they lie, that's why.
[quote][p][bold]Mervyn James[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pwlldu[/bold] wrote: Why can't Wales be a bilingual country like so many countries of the world. Are we that third world or so tied to the English language.[/p][/quote]Quite so, not one of the welsh haters said a dicky bird about the 100s of £1,000s spent just on interpreters for the police, or, 11 TIMES as much spent on providing access for our migrant population to access services in Wales, completely unopposed and their rights to ignore English enshrined in our law,well, so is Welsh,so why the disparity ? The whingers just pick the easy targets, be it the welsh language, or their religions, an aunt sally they never tire of having a go at, the challenge for them (Should they accept !),is to oppose polish, Urdu, Bengali and the 35 other languages used here in Wales, on the same grounds, after all how many of the anti-welsh brigade actually use those languages ? If they want to start maybe the Gwent Hospital ? where access in written and interpreter formats are freely given there, maybe ask how much THAT is costing our NHS, would that not be racists in operation to oppose ? and illegal ? (Just like the anti-welsh lobby in fact). Any FOI request will tell you the exact cost of it all, why not ask ?[/p][/quote]I think you'll find most of the complainants against scattergun spending on Welsh just as annoyed about any kind of interpreters funded from taxation. Politicians are very fond of telling us immigrants come here to contribute - well not if they can't speak English they don't. But that doesn't mean we should ignore the huge cost of the way Welsh policy is enforced here and how little it is actually needed. No-one has yet explained why less than 3% of Welsh investors used NSA's Welsh language service when they claim there are 19% speaking it. It's because they lie, that's why. Llanmartinangel
  • Score: 10

7:03am Thu 13 Mar 14

Qwerty# says...

I believe that what your saying is wrong. If you live in Wales and think that Welsh is a rubbish, non needed language then go and move to England. We
lsh is our language and I will go to school this morning and speak fluent Welsh for 6 and a half hours. We deserve to have our laugnage and if you can't approve of that then move to somewhere English.
I believe that what your saying is wrong. If you live in Wales and think that Welsh is a rubbish, non needed language then go and move to England. We lsh is our language and I will go to school this morning and speak fluent Welsh for 6 and a half hours. We deserve to have our laugnage and if you can't approve of that then move to somewhere English. Qwerty#
  • Score: -8

10:56am Thu 13 Mar 14

Stevenboy says...

Qwerty# wrote:
I believe that what your saying is wrong. If you live in Wales and think that Welsh is a rubbish, non needed language then go and move to England. We
lsh is our language and I will go to school this morning and speak fluent Welsh for 6 and a half hours. We deserve to have our laugnage and if you can't approve of that then move to somewhere English.
I note you can't speak (or write) Wales' first language though. Tells us everything we need to know. Added to which, I understood that Wales was reputedly a democracy too where free speech is tolerated without the threat of ethnic cleansing if you disagree. I'm staying for now thanks and, as a taxpayer will say what I want. Got that?
[quote][p][bold]Qwerty#[/bold] wrote: I believe that what your saying is wrong. If you live in Wales and think that Welsh is a rubbish, non needed language then go and move to England. We lsh is our language and I will go to school this morning and speak fluent Welsh for 6 and a half hours. We deserve to have our laugnage and if you can't approve of that then move to somewhere English.[/p][/quote]I note you can't speak (or write) Wales' first language though. Tells us everything we need to know. Added to which, I understood that Wales was reputedly a democracy too where free speech is tolerated without the threat of ethnic cleansing if you disagree. I'm staying for now thanks and, as a taxpayer will say what I want. Got that? Stevenboy
  • Score: 3

11:32am Sun 16 Mar 14

varteg1 says...

pwlldu wrote:
Why can't Wales be a bilingual country like so many countries of the world. Are we that third world or so tied to the English language.
The main reason why is because it is/was the Welsh themselves who, in effect, decided to bring the language to the point of extinction.

The pressures being placed in attempting to create a revival come from a very small tranche of interested parties with an almost incredible amount of power and influence within the decision making political establishment.

Suspect, if not false, statistics based it seems almost entirely on data provided by and for those interested elements make a mockery of what statistical data should be all about.

Other nations have never attempted to serious;y suppress their localised and/or second languages in the manner that has occurred here in Wales, where their languages have been allowed to level out, support is often state funded through the education systems, not enforced in anything like the way it is happening here.

That is why Wales cannot be a truly bilingual region, because enforcement inevitably leads to contempt, contempt leads to disregard, antipathy, and ultimate collapse.
[quote][p][bold]pwlldu[/bold] wrote: Why can't Wales be a bilingual country like so many countries of the world. Are we that third world or so tied to the English language.[/p][/quote]The main reason why is because it is/was the Welsh themselves who, in effect, decided to bring the language to the point of extinction. The pressures being placed in attempting to create a revival come from a very small tranche of interested parties with an almost incredible amount of power and influence within the decision making political establishment. Suspect, if not false, statistics based it seems almost entirely on data provided by and for those interested elements make a mockery of what statistical data should be all about. Other nations have never attempted to serious;y suppress their localised and/or second languages in the manner that has occurred here in Wales, where their languages have been allowed to level out, support is often state funded through the education systems, not enforced in anything like the way it is happening here. That is why Wales cannot be a truly bilingual region, because enforcement inevitably leads to contempt, contempt leads to disregard, antipathy, and ultimate collapse. varteg1
  • Score: -1

11:59am Sun 16 Mar 14

varteg1 says...

Qwerty# wrote:
I believe that what your saying is wrong. If you live in Wales and think that Welsh is a rubbish, non needed language then go and move to England. We
lsh is our language and I will go to school this morning and speak fluent Welsh for 6 and a half hours. We deserve to have our laugnage and if you can't approve of that then move to somewhere English.
Well,despite your obvious enthusiastic anticipation ahead of your school day, it would seem that with an almost infinitesimal number actually retaining their fluency, once they leave education, and as the take up is dropping amongst birthright fluents, even in the heartland areas, the fact is, English is and increasingly will be far more useful in Wales than the language you enthuse over.

Once all the possible job slots have been filled where Cymraeg may be called for, what then will the current crop of scholars do to use the language, beyond chatting amongst themselves, perhaps if anyone should shove off to where their language is useful it should be the likes of you, I hear Patagonia still use a form of Cymraeg, but sadly it appears even there it is following the Welsh heartlands in the pace of decline.

Face facts, the whole world has turned to English for all major and practical purposes of international communications especially in the use of computers and the ubique Internet
[quote][p][bold]Qwerty#[/bold] wrote: I believe that what your saying is wrong. If you live in Wales and think that Welsh is a rubbish, non needed language then go and move to England. We lsh is our language and I will go to school this morning and speak fluent Welsh for 6 and a half hours. We deserve to have our laugnage and if you can't approve of that then move to somewhere English.[/p][/quote]Well,despite your obvious enthusiastic anticipation ahead of your school day, it would seem that with an almost infinitesimal number actually retaining their fluency, once they leave education, and as the take up is dropping amongst birthright fluents, even in the heartland areas, the fact is, English is and increasingly will be far more useful in Wales than the language you enthuse over. Once all the possible job slots have been filled where Cymraeg may be called for, what then will the current crop of scholars do to use the language, beyond chatting amongst themselves, perhaps if anyone should shove off to where their language is useful it should be the likes of you, I hear Patagonia still use a form of Cymraeg, but sadly it appears even there it is following the Welsh heartlands in the pace of decline. Face facts, the whole world has turned to English for all major and practical purposes of international communications especially in the use of computers and the ubique Internet varteg1
  • Score: 0

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