Welsh matters

First published in Letters

LETTERS that have been in recent issues of the Argus have mentioned the use of the Welsh Language, and how it is left at school gate.

This is mostly to do with the idleness of parents not learning the Welsh language.

Another letter mentioned the independence of Scotland, and if this happens a Labour government would never be achieved.

I can think of more important issues than that.

Moreover I’m sorry to inform him but it was the Labour Party that introduced the first Welsh Language act of parliament.

I am Welsh and proud of my heritage.

One final fact: Wales is not on the Union Flag, it is also not on the Royal Standard.

Mr D. R. Hall Rogerstone

Comments (22)

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2:57pm Tue 6 May 14

-trigg- says...

Why would parents want to learn Welsh? Its bad enough that this language is inflicted on chilren by schools without expecting grown adults to waste their time on it.

Adult Education can be highly beneficial but it makes far more sense for people to study a subject that might have a practical real world application
Why would parents want to learn Welsh? Its bad enough that this language is inflicted on chilren by schools without expecting grown adults to waste their time on it. Adult Education can be highly beneficial but it makes far more sense for people to study a subject that might have a practical real world application -trigg-
  • Score: 8

2:59pm Tue 6 May 14

GardenVarietyMushroom says...

-trigg- wrote:
Why would parents want to learn Welsh? Its bad enough that this language is inflicted on chilren by schools without expecting grown adults to waste their time on it.

Adult Education can be highly beneficial but it makes far more sense for people to study a subject that might have a practical real world application
But it does have real world application - it's a socially engineered prop for the tourism industry.
[quote][p][bold]-trigg-[/bold] wrote: Why would parents want to learn Welsh? Its bad enough that this language is inflicted on chilren by schools without expecting grown adults to waste their time on it. Adult Education can be highly beneficial but it makes far more sense for people to study a subject that might have a practical real world application[/p][/quote]But it does have real world application - it's a socially engineered prop for the tourism industry. GardenVarietyMushroom
  • Score: 11

4:30pm Tue 6 May 14

varteg1 says...

GardenVarietyMushroo
m
wrote:
-trigg- wrote:
Why would parents want to learn Welsh? Its bad enough that this language is inflicted on chilren by schools without expecting grown adults to waste their time on it.

Adult Education can be highly beneficial but it makes far more sense for people to study a subject that might have a practical real world application
But it does have real world application - it's a socially engineered prop for the tourism industry.
I suppose extending that argument one can visualise hordes of trippers arriving in Wales with their little travellers phrase book open for business.

The unfortunate thing being, the vast majority would have not a clue how to pronounce, never mind converse with a person in Wales,

Their frustration would become instantly apparent when attempting to try out their worse than useless linguistic skills on nineteen out of twenty they meet anywhere in Wales, who only speak English.
They would wonder at the fact the chance of meeting up with someone who could reciprocate, in...say...Japanese, Russian, Chinese, Swahili or any of the hundreds of language fluents who invariably use English as a second language.
I suppose you have a point if these trippers stand in front of a dual language road sign to be photographed.

I doubt it would encourage the take up of Cymraeg when they get back home though.
[quote][p][bold]GardenVarietyMushroo m[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]-trigg-[/bold] wrote: Why would parents want to learn Welsh? Its bad enough that this language is inflicted on chilren by schools without expecting grown adults to waste their time on it. Adult Education can be highly beneficial but it makes far more sense for people to study a subject that might have a practical real world application[/p][/quote]But it does have real world application - it's a socially engineered prop for the tourism industry.[/p][/quote]I suppose extending that argument one can visualise hordes of trippers arriving in Wales with their little travellers phrase book open for business. The unfortunate thing being, the vast majority would have not a clue how to pronounce, never mind converse with a person in Wales, Their frustration would become instantly apparent when attempting to try out their worse than useless linguistic skills on nineteen out of twenty they meet anywhere in Wales, who only speak English. They would wonder at the fact the chance of meeting up with someone who could reciprocate, in...say...Japanese, Russian, Chinese, Swahili or any of the hundreds of language fluents who invariably use English as a second language. I suppose you have a point if these trippers stand in front of a dual language road sign to be photographed. I doubt it would encourage the take up of Cymraeg when they get back home though. varteg1
  • Score: 10

4:40pm Tue 6 May 14

Llanmartinangel says...

GardenVarietyMushroo
m
wrote:
-trigg- wrote:
Why would parents want to learn Welsh? Its bad enough that this language is inflicted on chilren by schools without expecting grown adults to waste their time on it.

Adult Education can be highly beneficial but it makes far more sense for people to study a subject that might have a practical real world application
But it does have real world application - it's a socially engineered prop for the tourism industry.
Yep. And a useful tool for unscrupulous politicians trying to create a fictitious country out of dragons and women in shawls and stove-pipe hats.
[quote][p][bold]GardenVarietyMushroo m[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]-trigg-[/bold] wrote: Why would parents want to learn Welsh? Its bad enough that this language is inflicted on chilren by schools without expecting grown adults to waste their time on it. Adult Education can be highly beneficial but it makes far more sense for people to study a subject that might have a practical real world application[/p][/quote]But it does have real world application - it's a socially engineered prop for the tourism industry.[/p][/quote]Yep. And a useful tool for unscrupulous politicians trying to create a fictitious country out of dragons and women in shawls and stove-pipe hats. Llanmartinangel
  • Score: 19

8:04pm Tue 6 May 14

Mervyn James says...

varteg1 wrote:
GardenVarietyMushroo

m
wrote:
-trigg- wrote:
Why would parents want to learn Welsh? Its bad enough that this language is inflicted on chilren by schools without expecting grown adults to waste their time on it.

Adult Education can be highly beneficial but it makes far more sense for people to study a subject that might have a practical real world application
But it does have real world application - it's a socially engineered prop for the tourism industry.
I suppose extending that argument one can visualise hordes of trippers arriving in Wales with their little travellers phrase book open for business.

The unfortunate thing being, the vast majority would have not a clue how to pronounce, never mind converse with a person in Wales,

Their frustration would become instantly apparent when attempting to try out their worse than useless linguistic skills on nineteen out of twenty they meet anywhere in Wales, who only speak English.
They would wonder at the fact the chance of meeting up with someone who could reciprocate, in...say...Japanese, Russian, Chinese, Swahili or any of the hundreds of language fluents who invariably use English as a second language.
I suppose you have a point if these trippers stand in front of a dual language road sign to be photographed.

I doubt it would encourage the take up of Cymraeg when they get back home though.
Americans would lap it up,they have thousands in the USA who can speak welsh. Unlike in the UK where we denigrate anything to do with language or culture, they make the most of it,and make it pay too. Tourists won't flock to Newport for the welsh language, they never do,but to the heartlands of Mid and North wales,visit the eisteddfods which are always pretty full and bring in money, as they did when it took place at Tredegar House. Again Anglicized newportonians rubbished the whole thing, but it brought in tourists and £86,000 to local business. Not to be sniffed at.

the issue with Welsh is we undersell it frankly, it is a money-spinner with the right people in charge, if only nay sayers would look further than their English noses, and see what a positive it can be for Wales. No tourist is going to come to Wales and certainly not Newport, to view English speakers or its culture, why would they ? We must be the sole country in the world that derides its past, its language, and its culture in favour of another forced on them.

Be proud of Wales, be proud of being Welsh, there is bugger all to be proud of from Westminster, or London where the English speaker is an increasing minority in its own capital city ! Multicultural ? yeah right !!!
[quote][p][bold]varteg1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]GardenVarietyMushroo m[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]-trigg-[/bold] wrote: Why would parents want to learn Welsh? Its bad enough that this language is inflicted on chilren by schools without expecting grown adults to waste their time on it. Adult Education can be highly beneficial but it makes far more sense for people to study a subject that might have a practical real world application[/p][/quote]But it does have real world application - it's a socially engineered prop for the tourism industry.[/p][/quote]I suppose extending that argument one can visualise hordes of trippers arriving in Wales with their little travellers phrase book open for business. The unfortunate thing being, the vast majority would have not a clue how to pronounce, never mind converse with a person in Wales, Their frustration would become instantly apparent when attempting to try out their worse than useless linguistic skills on nineteen out of twenty they meet anywhere in Wales, who only speak English. They would wonder at the fact the chance of meeting up with someone who could reciprocate, in...say...Japanese, Russian, Chinese, Swahili or any of the hundreds of language fluents who invariably use English as a second language. I suppose you have a point if these trippers stand in front of a dual language road sign to be photographed. I doubt it would encourage the take up of Cymraeg when they get back home though.[/p][/quote]Americans would lap it up,they have thousands in the USA who can speak welsh. Unlike in the UK where we denigrate anything to do with language or culture, they make the most of it,and make it pay too. Tourists won't flock to Newport for the welsh language, they never do,but to the heartlands of Mid and North wales,visit the eisteddfods which are always pretty full and bring in money, as they did when it took place at Tredegar House. Again Anglicized newportonians rubbished the whole thing, but it brought in tourists and £86,000 to local business. Not to be sniffed at. the issue with Welsh is we undersell it frankly, it is a money-spinner with the right people in charge, if only nay sayers would look further than their English noses, and see what a positive it can be for Wales. No tourist is going to come to Wales and certainly not Newport, to view English speakers or its culture, why would they ? We must be the sole country in the world that derides its past, its language, and its culture in favour of another forced on them. Be proud of Wales, be proud of being Welsh, there is bugger all to be proud of from Westminster, or London where the English speaker is an increasing minority in its own capital city ! Multicultural ? yeah right !!! Mervyn James
  • Score: -13

8:54pm Tue 6 May 14

pbhj says...

>"One final fact: Wales is not on the Union Flag"

That's because the lands we now call Wales were finally completely subsumed in to England at the annexation, like Yorkshire or Kent, say. The Treaty of Union was between the English and Scottish crowns and formed the UK. Indeed from what I've read it seems Wales, as we know it, was only really defined as a united whole once the separate counties had been conquered by the English crown (starting with Henry III in ~1240 and finishing with Henry VIII).
>"One final fact: Wales is not on the Union Flag" That's because the lands we now call Wales were finally completely subsumed in to England at the annexation, like Yorkshire or Kent, say. The Treaty of Union was between the English and Scottish crowns and formed the UK. Indeed from what I've read it seems Wales, as we know it, was only really defined as a united whole once the separate counties had been conquered by the English crown (starting with Henry III in ~1240 and finishing with Henry VIII). pbhj
  • Score: 9

10:19pm Tue 6 May 14

Banjalucka says...

Mervyn - Some good points but use only for culture and buiness generally. But not everyday stuff i am afraid. Thousands of WELSh speakers in USA?? Ummm but again thousands there use many languages like Russian, German etc but they all speak English
Mervyn - Some good points but use only for culture and buiness generally. But not everyday stuff i am afraid. Thousands of WELSh speakers in USA?? Ummm but again thousands there use many languages like Russian, German etc but they all speak English Banjalucka
  • Score: 2

10:27pm Tue 6 May 14

Llanmartinangel says...

Mervyn James wrote:
varteg1 wrote:
GardenVarietyMushroo


m
wrote:
-trigg- wrote:
Why would parents want to learn Welsh? Its bad enough that this language is inflicted on chilren by schools without expecting grown adults to waste their time on it.

Adult Education can be highly beneficial but it makes far more sense for people to study a subject that might have a practical real world application
But it does have real world application - it's a socially engineered prop for the tourism industry.
I suppose extending that argument one can visualise hordes of trippers arriving in Wales with their little travellers phrase book open for business.

The unfortunate thing being, the vast majority would have not a clue how to pronounce, never mind converse with a person in Wales,

Their frustration would become instantly apparent when attempting to try out their worse than useless linguistic skills on nineteen out of twenty they meet anywhere in Wales, who only speak English.
They would wonder at the fact the chance of meeting up with someone who could reciprocate, in...say...Japanese, Russian, Chinese, Swahili or any of the hundreds of language fluents who invariably use English as a second language.
I suppose you have a point if these trippers stand in front of a dual language road sign to be photographed.

I doubt it would encourage the take up of Cymraeg when they get back home though.
Americans would lap it up,they have thousands in the USA who can speak welsh. Unlike in the UK where we denigrate anything to do with language or culture, they make the most of it,and make it pay too. Tourists won't flock to Newport for the welsh language, they never do,but to the heartlands of Mid and North wales,visit the eisteddfods which are always pretty full and bring in money, as they did when it took place at Tredegar House. Again Anglicized newportonians rubbished the whole thing, but it brought in tourists and £86,000 to local business. Not to be sniffed at.

the issue with Welsh is we undersell it frankly, it is a money-spinner with the right people in charge, if only nay sayers would look further than their English noses, and see what a positive it can be for Wales. No tourist is going to come to Wales and certainly not Newport, to view English speakers or its culture, why would they ? We must be the sole country in the world that derides its past, its language, and its culture in favour of another forced on them.

Be proud of Wales, be proud of being Welsh, there is bugger all to be proud of from Westminster, or London where the English speaker is an increasing minority in its own capital city ! Multicultural ? yeah right !!!
More rubbish Mervyn. If Eisteddfodd and Welsh festivals are 'money making' then explain this quote from Wales.gov.org

Alun Ffred Jones, Minister for Heritage
I am pleased to announce that the National Eisteddfod will receive an additional £100,000 from the Welsh Assembly Government through the Welsh Language Board for the 2009-10 financial year. This additional funding will be allocated to the 2009 Festival in Bala. This is in addition to the £485,722 which the National Eisteddfod will receive from the Welsh Assembly Government through the Welsh Language Board.
[quote][p][bold]Mervyn James[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]varteg1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]GardenVarietyMushroo m[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]-trigg-[/bold] wrote: Why would parents want to learn Welsh? Its bad enough that this language is inflicted on chilren by schools without expecting grown adults to waste their time on it. Adult Education can be highly beneficial but it makes far more sense for people to study a subject that might have a practical real world application[/p][/quote]But it does have real world application - it's a socially engineered prop for the tourism industry.[/p][/quote]I suppose extending that argument one can visualise hordes of trippers arriving in Wales with their little travellers phrase book open for business. The unfortunate thing being, the vast majority would have not a clue how to pronounce, never mind converse with a person in Wales, Their frustration would become instantly apparent when attempting to try out their worse than useless linguistic skills on nineteen out of twenty they meet anywhere in Wales, who only speak English. They would wonder at the fact the chance of meeting up with someone who could reciprocate, in...say...Japanese, Russian, Chinese, Swahili or any of the hundreds of language fluents who invariably use English as a second language. I suppose you have a point if these trippers stand in front of a dual language road sign to be photographed. I doubt it would encourage the take up of Cymraeg when they get back home though.[/p][/quote]Americans would lap it up,they have thousands in the USA who can speak welsh. Unlike in the UK where we denigrate anything to do with language or culture, they make the most of it,and make it pay too. Tourists won't flock to Newport for the welsh language, they never do,but to the heartlands of Mid and North wales,visit the eisteddfods which are always pretty full and bring in money, as they did when it took place at Tredegar House. Again Anglicized newportonians rubbished the whole thing, but it brought in tourists and £86,000 to local business. Not to be sniffed at. the issue with Welsh is we undersell it frankly, it is a money-spinner with the right people in charge, if only nay sayers would look further than their English noses, and see what a positive it can be for Wales. No tourist is going to come to Wales and certainly not Newport, to view English speakers or its culture, why would they ? We must be the sole country in the world that derides its past, its language, and its culture in favour of another forced on them. Be proud of Wales, be proud of being Welsh, there is bugger all to be proud of from Westminster, or London where the English speaker is an increasing minority in its own capital city ! Multicultural ? yeah right !!![/p][/quote]More rubbish Mervyn. If Eisteddfodd and Welsh festivals are 'money making' then explain this quote from Wales.gov.org Alun Ffred Jones, Minister for Heritage I am pleased to announce that the National Eisteddfod will receive an additional £100,000 from the Welsh Assembly Government through the Welsh Language Board for the 2009-10 financial year. This additional funding will be allocated to the 2009 Festival in Bala. This is in addition to the £485,722 which the National Eisteddfod will receive from the Welsh Assembly Government through the Welsh Language Board. Llanmartinangel
  • Score: 13

8:27am Wed 7 May 14

Bobevans says...

S4C in Terminal Decline?

S4C has lost almost 20% of it's peak viewing audience. Off peak numbers have also fallen but by a smaller amount but the off peak viewing figures were very low to start with

Clearly their is little appetite for S4C programs in Welsh. Perhaps it is time that S4C recognised that 90% of the people in Wales uses English
Welsh programs could be confined mainly to off peak hours. TV programs can now be easily be recorded

Possibly S4C & BBC Wales should be merged
S4C in Terminal Decline? S4C has lost almost 20% of it's peak viewing audience. Off peak numbers have also fallen but by a smaller amount but the off peak viewing figures were very low to start with Clearly their is little appetite for S4C programs in Welsh. Perhaps it is time that S4C recognised that 90% of the people in Wales uses English Welsh programs could be confined mainly to off peak hours. TV programs can now be easily be recorded Possibly S4C & BBC Wales should be merged Bobevans
  • Score: 8

9:05am Wed 7 May 14

Llanmartinangel says...

Bobevans wrote:
S4C in Terminal Decline?

S4C has lost almost 20% of it's peak viewing audience. Off peak numbers have also fallen but by a smaller amount but the off peak viewing figures were very low to start with

Clearly their is little appetite for S4C programs in Welsh. Perhaps it is time that S4C recognised that 90% of the people in Wales uses English
Welsh programs could be confined mainly to off peak hours. TV programs can now be easily be recorded

Possibly S4C & BBC Wales should be merged
S4C should be a subscription channel and placed on an existing outlet on an existing spot on the digital platform. It's bizarre that every licence payer in the UK is funding something that keeps TV execs in huge salaries while broadcasting to nobody for most of the time.
[quote][p][bold]Bobevans[/bold] wrote: S4C in Terminal Decline? S4C has lost almost 20% of it's peak viewing audience. Off peak numbers have also fallen but by a smaller amount but the off peak viewing figures were very low to start with Clearly their is little appetite for S4C programs in Welsh. Perhaps it is time that S4C recognised that 90% of the people in Wales uses English Welsh programs could be confined mainly to off peak hours. TV programs can now be easily be recorded Possibly S4C & BBC Wales should be merged[/p][/quote]S4C should be a subscription channel and placed on an existing outlet on an existing spot on the digital platform. It's bizarre that every licence payer in the UK is funding something that keeps TV execs in huge salaries while broadcasting to nobody for most of the time. Llanmartinangel
  • Score: 10

9:41am Wed 7 May 14

-trigg- says...

Bobevans wrote:
S4C in Terminal Decline? S4C has lost almost 20% of it's peak viewing audience. Off peak numbers have also fallen but by a smaller amount but the off peak viewing figures were very low to start with Clearly their is little appetite for S4C programs in Welsh. Perhaps it is time that S4C recognised that 90% of the people in Wales uses English Welsh programs could be confined mainly to off peak hours. TV programs can now be easily be recorded Possibly S4C & BBC Wales should be merged
To be fair, statiscally when you have as small a sample size as that, then it doesn't take many people switching off to create a huge percentage swing.

As an example, if a show had 10 viewers then it would only take 2 to stop watching to produce a 20% decline.
[quote][p][bold]Bobevans[/bold] wrote: S4C in Terminal Decline? S4C has lost almost 20% of it's peak viewing audience. Off peak numbers have also fallen but by a smaller amount but the off peak viewing figures were very low to start with Clearly their is little appetite for S4C programs in Welsh. Perhaps it is time that S4C recognised that 90% of the people in Wales uses English Welsh programs could be confined mainly to off peak hours. TV programs can now be easily be recorded Possibly S4C & BBC Wales should be merged[/p][/quote]To be fair, statiscally when you have as small a sample size as that, then it doesn't take many people switching off to create a huge percentage swing. As an example, if a show had 10 viewers then it would only take 2 to stop watching to produce a 20% decline. -trigg-
  • Score: 6

9:50am Wed 7 May 14

landyman3030 says...

I am also Welsh and proud of our heritage. I think that if adults and children want to learn the welsh language and have the time to dedicate to this worthy past time i applaud them and wish them well.
I also come under the assumed bracket of parents who are to idle to learn fluent Welsh to support my children in this language outside of the school gates.
As the letter writer is allowed to make such wide ranging assumptions about the majority of adults in Wales, i feel it is safe to assume that i will be as correct in my own assumptions that he is neither a parent or working full time.
Juggling a sixty hour week with the responsibilities of 3 children which range from nightly homework to be in the following day, brownies, cubs, dancing, swimming lessons and extra tuition to try and keep my daughter at the level of national curriculum that she should be as they never have enough time to complete the task in lesson time as most of the lesson is given over to trying to control individuals who come under the heading of " as long as they are on school property they aren't causing trouble which the LEA have to deal with. "
Oh, and the kids expect to eat before bed time. Ungrateful so and so's.
So i should now feel guilty that the small amount of time i have should be forced to learn a language to support my children in speaking a language that they are forced to learn right through to GCSE level.
Even though i find it interesting that you NEVER hear children conversing in welsh when the parents aren't involved in or outside of Welsh class.
Maybe the children are idle to......
I am also Welsh and proud of our heritage. I think that if adults and children want to learn the welsh language and have the time to dedicate to this worthy past time i applaud them and wish them well. I also come under the assumed bracket of parents who are to idle to learn fluent Welsh to support my children in this language outside of the school gates. As the letter writer is allowed to make such wide ranging assumptions about the majority of adults in Wales, i feel it is safe to assume that i will be as correct in my own assumptions that he is neither a parent or working full time. Juggling a sixty hour week with the responsibilities of 3 children which range from nightly homework to be in the following day, brownies, cubs, dancing, swimming lessons and extra tuition to try and keep my daughter at the level of national curriculum that she should be as they never have enough time to complete the task in lesson time as most of the lesson is given over to trying to control individuals who come under the heading of " as long as they are on school property they aren't causing trouble which the LEA have to deal with. " Oh, and the kids expect to eat before bed time. Ungrateful so and so's. So i should now feel guilty that the small amount of time i have should be forced to learn a language to support my children in speaking a language that they are forced to learn right through to GCSE level. Even though i find it interesting that you NEVER hear children conversing in welsh when the parents aren't involved in or outside of Welsh class. Maybe the children are idle to...... landyman3030
  • Score: 8

11:07am Wed 7 May 14

landyman3030 says...

Morning Merv. Lovely morning.
Wonderful to think of all those yanks who want to learn welsh and have welsh skills. ( Or are they fluent and refuse to converse in any other language? )
They love it and think how quaint it is to be able to say Hi in Welsh.
Go round each others houses and compare welsh cake recipes.
There may be thousands in America with welsh skills. With the population of the USA, that is comparable to one cigarette butt dropped in the Maindee area.
There are thousands of people in Wales with welsh skills too.
I think you'll find that it was the event that brought money into Newport with the Eisteddfod.
Wonder what the classic car show or race for life bring in?
Wonder what the Welsh Open and the snooker bring in?
Maybe they will all be made compulsory in schools too.
But hang.....wait a doggone minute..............
.i seem to remember an opinion on the previous letter that speaking welsh has got nothing to do with the amount of money it earns or spends but a right of the welsh heritage and the nation to learn it MANDATORILY.
Has that changed? Does how much money it brings in relate to how many people should speak the language?
Lets see shall we.......
Morning Merv. Lovely morning. Wonderful to think of all those yanks who want to learn welsh and have welsh skills. ( Or are they fluent and refuse to converse in any other language? ) They love it and think how quaint it is to be able to say Hi in Welsh. Go round each others houses and compare welsh cake recipes. There may be thousands in America with welsh skills. With the population of the USA, that is comparable to one cigarette butt dropped in the Maindee area. There are thousands of people in Wales with welsh skills too. I think you'll find that it was the event that brought money into Newport with the Eisteddfod. Wonder what the classic car show or race for life bring in? Wonder what the Welsh Open and the snooker bring in? Maybe they will all be made compulsory in schools too. But hang.....wait a doggone minute.............. .i seem to remember an opinion on the previous letter that speaking welsh has got nothing to do with the amount of money it earns or spends but a right of the welsh heritage and the nation to learn it MANDATORILY. Has that changed? Does how much money it brings in relate to how many people should speak the language? Lets see shall we....... landyman3030
  • Score: 8

2:35pm Wed 7 May 14

Bobevans says...

-trigg- wrote:
Bobevans wrote:
S4C in Terminal Decline? S4C has lost almost 20% of it's peak viewing audience. Off peak numbers have also fallen but by a smaller amount but the off peak viewing figures were very low to start with Clearly their is little appetite for S4C programs in Welsh. Perhaps it is time that S4C recognised that 90% of the people in Wales uses English Welsh programs could be confined mainly to off peak hours. TV programs can now be easily be recorded Possibly S4C & BBC Wales should be merged
To be fair, statiscally when you have as small a sample size as that, then it doesn't take many people switching off to create a huge percentage swing.

As an example, if a show had 10 viewers then it would only take 2 to stop watching to produce a 20% decline.
POBOL Y CWM 37,000 viewers
35 DIWRNOD 31,000 viewers
ROWND A ROWND 20,000 Viewers
CEFN GWLAD 13,500 viewers
CREU CYMRU FODERN 9.000 viewers

And this are some of the Top 20 Programs. Don't ask about the bottom 20
[quote][p][bold]-trigg-[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Bobevans[/bold] wrote: S4C in Terminal Decline? S4C has lost almost 20% of it's peak viewing audience. Off peak numbers have also fallen but by a smaller amount but the off peak viewing figures were very low to start with Clearly their is little appetite for S4C programs in Welsh. Perhaps it is time that S4C recognised that 90% of the people in Wales uses English Welsh programs could be confined mainly to off peak hours. TV programs can now be easily be recorded Possibly S4C & BBC Wales should be merged[/p][/quote]To be fair, statiscally when you have as small a sample size as that, then it doesn't take many people switching off to create a huge percentage swing. As an example, if a show had 10 viewers then it would only take 2 to stop watching to produce a 20% decline.[/p][/quote]POBOL Y CWM 37,000 viewers 35 DIWRNOD 31,000 viewers ROWND A ROWND 20,000 Viewers CEFN GWLAD 13,500 viewers CREU CYMRU FODERN 9.000 viewers And this are some of the Top 20 Programs. Don't ask about the bottom 20 Bobevans
  • Score: 6

3:21pm Wed 7 May 14

landyman3030 says...

-trigg- wrote:
Why would parents want to learn Welsh? Its bad enough that this language is inflicted on chilren by schools without expecting grown adults to waste their time on it.

Adult Education can be highly beneficial but it makes far more sense for people to study a subject that might have a practical real world application
I like the way you think.
[quote][p][bold]-trigg-[/bold] wrote: Why would parents want to learn Welsh? Its bad enough that this language is inflicted on chilren by schools without expecting grown adults to waste their time on it. Adult Education can be highly beneficial but it makes far more sense for people to study a subject that might have a practical real world application[/p][/quote]I like the way you think. landyman3030
  • Score: 6

3:43pm Wed 7 May 14

landyman3030 says...

Morning Merv. Lovely morning.
Why does it deride about our welsh heritage and culture when all we ask is the freedom to decide if we WANT to learn the language and that choice should include our children?
People come to Wales as a tourist destination for one reason only and that is because we have some of the most beautiful countryside in the world.
We've got a little bit of what everybody wants.
The fact is tourists want to understand where the nearest welsh shop is rather than use the welsh dictionary to ask.
It's the tourists who want to see a coal miner out of Cordells books or walk in Thomas's footsteps. Fantasy Island Welsh style.
That's what gets their cheque books out.
They don't have to live with reality like the rest of us and that includes you.
Next time you decide to write in denigrating and deriding the happy parents who befoul your beloved Maindee with fag ends and the anti-social behaviour lets ask why there isn't more money coming from councils, WAG and Westminster to pay for proper coppers on the streets where it matters?
The pot is getting smaller daily old son.
Three week refuse collection in the north of Wales, CCTV turned OFF in Aberystwyth because nobody can afford it, parks being closed because of no funds and a tv channel that cannot justify its existence and the old Robin on the Welsh radio today having the neck to ask for a second channel to funded by other. The over funding of the language cannot justify continuing.
Morning Merv. Lovely morning. Why does it deride about our welsh heritage and culture when all we ask is the freedom to decide if we WANT to learn the language and that choice should include our children? People come to Wales as a tourist destination for one reason only and that is because we have some of the most beautiful countryside in the world. We've got a little bit of what everybody wants. The fact is tourists want to understand where the nearest welsh shop is rather than use the welsh dictionary to ask. It's the tourists who want to see a coal miner out of Cordells books or walk in Thomas's footsteps. Fantasy Island Welsh style. That's what gets their cheque books out. They don't have to live with reality like the rest of us and that includes you. Next time you decide to write in denigrating and deriding the happy parents who befoul your beloved Maindee with fag ends and the anti-social behaviour lets ask why there isn't more money coming from councils, WAG and Westminster to pay for proper coppers on the streets where it matters? The pot is getting smaller daily old son. Three week refuse collection in the north of Wales, CCTV turned OFF in Aberystwyth because nobody can afford it, parks being closed because of no funds and a tv channel that cannot justify its existence and the old Robin on the Welsh radio today having the neck to ask for a second channel to funded by other. The over funding of the language cannot justify continuing. landyman3030
  • Score: 5

9:22pm Wed 7 May 14

varteg1 says...

Mervyn James wrote:
varteg1 wrote:
GardenVarietyMushroo


m
wrote:
-trigg- wrote:
Why would parents want to learn Welsh? Its bad enough that this language is inflicted on chilren by schools without expecting grown adults to waste their time on it.

Adult Education can be highly beneficial but it makes far more sense for people to study a subject that might have a practical real world application
But it does have real world application - it's a socially engineered prop for the tourism industry.
I suppose extending that argument one can visualise hordes of trippers arriving in Wales with their little travellers phrase book open for business.

The unfortunate thing being, the vast majority would have not a clue how to pronounce, never mind converse with a person in Wales,

Their frustration would become instantly apparent when attempting to try out their worse than useless linguistic skills on nineteen out of twenty they meet anywhere in Wales, who only speak English.
They would wonder at the fact the chance of meeting up with someone who could reciprocate, in...say...Japanese, Russian, Chinese, Swahili or any of the hundreds of language fluents who invariably use English as a second language.
I suppose you have a point if these trippers stand in front of a dual language road sign to be photographed.

I doubt it would encourage the take up of Cymraeg when they get back home though.
Americans would lap it up,they have thousands in the USA who can speak welsh. Unlike in the UK where we denigrate anything to do with language or culture, they make the most of it,and make it pay too. Tourists won't flock to Newport for the welsh language, they never do,but to the heartlands of Mid and North wales,visit the eisteddfods which are always pretty full and bring in money, as they did when it took place at Tredegar House. Again Anglicized newportonians rubbished the whole thing, but it brought in tourists and £86,000 to local business. Not to be sniffed at.

the issue with Welsh is we undersell it frankly, it is a money-spinner with the right people in charge, if only nay sayers would look further than their English noses, and see what a positive it can be for Wales. No tourist is going to come to Wales and certainly not Newport, to view English speakers or its culture, why would they ? We must be the sole country in the world that derides its past, its language, and its culture in favour of another forced on them.

Be proud of Wales, be proud of being Welsh, there is bugger all to be proud of from Westminster, or London where the English speaker is an increasing minority in its own capital city ! Multicultural ? yeah right !!!
You got that right....it's a money spinner for sure, but it's the money from the taxpayer that is being spun.... into the web of the language brigade,... it certainly has nothing to do with tourism. If that was the case, there would be no need to have it stuffed in to the kids in Ysgol.

Truth is the current fad for all things to be enmeshed in Cymraeg is political and comes as a part and parcel of the control freakism that is diffused throughout the Welsh political arena.

Wales has been in linguistic decline for a couple of centuries, and no matter how much of our cash is wasted on the language, because of immigration, emigration, especially emigration, where the emigres almost immediately and invariably deliberately 'lost' their language skills, when they discovered there was no call for it wherever they went, added to the suppression and suffusion brought about by immigrant numbers, it was almost inevitable it was almost lost.

But attempting to reinvigorate it via the taxpayers wallet is not likely to endear it to the vast majority.
[quote][p][bold]Mervyn James[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]varteg1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]GardenVarietyMushroo m[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]-trigg-[/bold] wrote: Why would parents want to learn Welsh? Its bad enough that this language is inflicted on chilren by schools without expecting grown adults to waste their time on it. Adult Education can be highly beneficial but it makes far more sense for people to study a subject that might have a practical real world application[/p][/quote]But it does have real world application - it's a socially engineered prop for the tourism industry.[/p][/quote]I suppose extending that argument one can visualise hordes of trippers arriving in Wales with their little travellers phrase book open for business. The unfortunate thing being, the vast majority would have not a clue how to pronounce, never mind converse with a person in Wales, Their frustration would become instantly apparent when attempting to try out their worse than useless linguistic skills on nineteen out of twenty they meet anywhere in Wales, who only speak English. They would wonder at the fact the chance of meeting up with someone who could reciprocate, in...say...Japanese, Russian, Chinese, Swahili or any of the hundreds of language fluents who invariably use English as a second language. I suppose you have a point if these trippers stand in front of a dual language road sign to be photographed. I doubt it would encourage the take up of Cymraeg when they get back home though.[/p][/quote]Americans would lap it up,they have thousands in the USA who can speak welsh. Unlike in the UK where we denigrate anything to do with language or culture, they make the most of it,and make it pay too. Tourists won't flock to Newport for the welsh language, they never do,but to the heartlands of Mid and North wales,visit the eisteddfods which are always pretty full and bring in money, as they did when it took place at Tredegar House. Again Anglicized newportonians rubbished the whole thing, but it brought in tourists and £86,000 to local business. Not to be sniffed at. the issue with Welsh is we undersell it frankly, it is a money-spinner with the right people in charge, if only nay sayers would look further than their English noses, and see what a positive it can be for Wales. No tourist is going to come to Wales and certainly not Newport, to view English speakers or its culture, why would they ? We must be the sole country in the world that derides its past, its language, and its culture in favour of another forced on them. Be proud of Wales, be proud of being Welsh, there is bugger all to be proud of from Westminster, or London where the English speaker is an increasing minority in its own capital city ! Multicultural ? yeah right !!![/p][/quote]You got that right....it's a money spinner for sure, but it's the money from the taxpayer that is being spun.... into the web of the language brigade,... it certainly has nothing to do with tourism. If that was the case, there would be no need to have it stuffed in to the kids in Ysgol. Truth is the current fad for all things to be enmeshed in Cymraeg is political and comes as a part and parcel of the control freakism that is diffused throughout the Welsh political arena. Wales has been in linguistic decline for a couple of centuries, and no matter how much of our cash is wasted on the language, because of immigration, emigration, especially emigration, where the emigres almost immediately and invariably deliberately 'lost' their language skills, when they discovered there was no call for it wherever they went, added to the suppression and suffusion brought about by immigrant numbers, it was almost inevitable it was almost lost. But attempting to reinvigorate it via the taxpayers wallet is not likely to endear it to the vast majority. varteg1
  • Score: 2

9:23pm Wed 7 May 14

varteg1 says...

Mervyn James wrote:
varteg1 wrote:
GardenVarietyMushroo


m
wrote:
-trigg- wrote:
Why would parents want to learn Welsh? Its bad enough that this language is inflicted on chilren by schools without expecting grown adults to waste their time on it.

Adult Education can be highly beneficial but it makes far more sense for people to study a subject that might have a practical real world application
But it does have real world application - it's a socially engineered prop for the tourism industry.
I suppose extending that argument one can visualise hordes of trippers arriving in Wales with their little travellers phrase book open for business.

The unfortunate thing being, the vast majority would have not a clue how to pronounce, never mind converse with a person in Wales,

Their frustration would become instantly apparent when attempting to try out their worse than useless linguistic skills on nineteen out of twenty they meet anywhere in Wales, who only speak English.
They would wonder at the fact the chance of meeting up with someone who could reciprocate, in...say...Japanese, Russian, Chinese, Swahili or any of the hundreds of language fluents who invariably use English as a second language.
I suppose you have a point if these trippers stand in front of a dual language road sign to be photographed.

I doubt it would encourage the take up of Cymraeg when they get back home though.
Americans would lap it up,they have thousands in the USA who can speak welsh. Unlike in the UK where we denigrate anything to do with language or culture, they make the most of it,and make it pay too. Tourists won't flock to Newport for the welsh language, they never do,but to the heartlands of Mid and North wales,visit the eisteddfods which are always pretty full and bring in money, as they did when it took place at Tredegar House. Again Anglicized newportonians rubbished the whole thing, but it brought in tourists and £86,000 to local business. Not to be sniffed at.

the issue with Welsh is we undersell it frankly, it is a money-spinner with the right people in charge, if only nay sayers would look further than their English noses, and see what a positive it can be for Wales. No tourist is going to come to Wales and certainly not Newport, to view English speakers or its culture, why would they ? We must be the sole country in the world that derides its past, its language, and its culture in favour of another forced on them.

Be proud of Wales, be proud of being Welsh, there is bugger all to be proud of from Westminster, or London where the English speaker is an increasing minority in its own capital city ! Multicultural ? yeah right !!!
You got that right....it's a money spinner for sure, but it's the money from the taxpayer that is being spun.... into the web of the language brigade,... it certainly has nothing to do with tourism. If that was the case, there would be no need to have it stuffed in to the kids in Ysgol.

Truth is the current fad for all things to be enmeshed in Cymraeg is political and comes as a part and parcel of the control freakism that is diffused throughout the Welsh political arena.

Wales has been in linguistic decline for a couple of centuries, and no matter how much of our cash is wasted on the language, because of immigration, emigration, especially emigration, where the emigres almost immediately and invariably deliberately 'lost' their language skills, when they discovered there was no call for it wherever they went, added to the suppression and suffusion brought about by immigrant numbers, it was almost inevitable it was almost lost.

But attempting to reinvigorate it via the taxpayers wallet is not likely to endear it to the vast majority.
[quote][p][bold]Mervyn James[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]varteg1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]GardenVarietyMushroo m[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]-trigg-[/bold] wrote: Why would parents want to learn Welsh? Its bad enough that this language is inflicted on chilren by schools without expecting grown adults to waste their time on it. Adult Education can be highly beneficial but it makes far more sense for people to study a subject that might have a practical real world application[/p][/quote]But it does have real world application - it's a socially engineered prop for the tourism industry.[/p][/quote]I suppose extending that argument one can visualise hordes of trippers arriving in Wales with their little travellers phrase book open for business. The unfortunate thing being, the vast majority would have not a clue how to pronounce, never mind converse with a person in Wales, Their frustration would become instantly apparent when attempting to try out their worse than useless linguistic skills on nineteen out of twenty they meet anywhere in Wales, who only speak English. They would wonder at the fact the chance of meeting up with someone who could reciprocate, in...say...Japanese, Russian, Chinese, Swahili or any of the hundreds of language fluents who invariably use English as a second language. I suppose you have a point if these trippers stand in front of a dual language road sign to be photographed. I doubt it would encourage the take up of Cymraeg when they get back home though.[/p][/quote]Americans would lap it up,they have thousands in the USA who can speak welsh. Unlike in the UK where we denigrate anything to do with language or culture, they make the most of it,and make it pay too. Tourists won't flock to Newport for the welsh language, they never do,but to the heartlands of Mid and North wales,visit the eisteddfods which are always pretty full and bring in money, as they did when it took place at Tredegar House. Again Anglicized newportonians rubbished the whole thing, but it brought in tourists and £86,000 to local business. Not to be sniffed at. the issue with Welsh is we undersell it frankly, it is a money-spinner with the right people in charge, if only nay sayers would look further than their English noses, and see what a positive it can be for Wales. No tourist is going to come to Wales and certainly not Newport, to view English speakers or its culture, why would they ? We must be the sole country in the world that derides its past, its language, and its culture in favour of another forced on them. Be proud of Wales, be proud of being Welsh, there is bugger all to be proud of from Westminster, or London where the English speaker is an increasing minority in its own capital city ! Multicultural ? yeah right !!![/p][/quote]You got that right....it's a money spinner for sure, but it's the money from the taxpayer that is being spun.... into the web of the language brigade,... it certainly has nothing to do with tourism. If that was the case, there would be no need to have it stuffed in to the kids in Ysgol. Truth is the current fad for all things to be enmeshed in Cymraeg is political and comes as a part and parcel of the control freakism that is diffused throughout the Welsh political arena. Wales has been in linguistic decline for a couple of centuries, and no matter how much of our cash is wasted on the language, because of immigration, emigration, especially emigration, where the emigres almost immediately and invariably deliberately 'lost' their language skills, when they discovered there was no call for it wherever they went, added to the suppression and suffusion brought about by immigrant numbers, it was almost inevitable it was almost lost. But attempting to reinvigorate it via the taxpayers wallet is not likely to endear it to the vast majority. varteg1
  • Score: 5

7:36pm Thu 8 May 14

scraptheWAG says...

welsh language is a load of tripe and a huge waste of money
welsh language is a load of tripe and a huge waste of money scraptheWAG
  • Score: -1

8:43am Fri 9 May 14

Mervyn James says...

scraptheWAG wrote:
welsh language is a load of tripe and a huge waste of money
I quite like tripe :)
[quote][p][bold]scraptheWAG[/bold] wrote: welsh language is a load of tripe and a huge waste of money[/p][/quote]I quite like tripe :) Mervyn James
  • Score: -2

3:30pm Fri 9 May 14

Llanmartinangel says...

Mervyn James wrote:
scraptheWAG wrote:
welsh language is a load of tripe and a huge waste of money
I quite like tripe :)
But do you have to keep regurgitating it?
[quote][p][bold]Mervyn James[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]scraptheWAG[/bold] wrote: welsh language is a load of tripe and a huge waste of money[/p][/quote]I quite like tripe :)[/p][/quote]But do you have to keep regurgitating it? Llanmartinangel
  • Score: 1

9:03am Mon 12 May 14

varteg1 says...

Bobevans wrote:
-trigg- wrote:
Bobevans wrote:
S4C in Terminal Decline? S4C has lost almost 20% of it's peak viewing audience. Off peak numbers have also fallen but by a smaller amount but the off peak viewing figures were very low to start with Clearly their is little appetite for S4C programs in Welsh. Perhaps it is time that S4C recognised that 90% of the people in Wales uses English Welsh programs could be confined mainly to off peak hours. TV programs can now be easily be recorded Possibly S4C & BBC Wales should be merged
To be fair, statiscally when you have as small a sample size as that, then it doesn't take many people switching off to create a huge percentage swing.

As an example, if a show had 10 viewers then it would only take 2 to stop watching to produce a 20% decline.
POBOL Y CWM 37,000 viewers
35 DIWRNOD 31,000 viewers
ROWND A ROWND 20,000 Viewers
CEFN GWLAD 13,500 viewers
CREU CYMRU FODERN 9.000 viewers

And this are some of the Top 20 Programs. Don't ask about the bottom 20
POBOL Y CWM 37,000 viewers
35 DIWRNOD 31,000 viewers
ROWND A ROWND 20,000 Viewers
CEFN GWLAD 13,500 viewers
CREU CYMRU FODERN 9.000 viewers

So, according to the Plaid pundits some 10% of the population are Cymraeg fluent.

It doesn't say much for the take up then when only about 10% of those fluents, (1% of the population), watch the most popular Cymraeg language programme does it?

It speaks volumes about just how much money is wasted on it though.considering that S4C has had something like a billion quid, at least., thrown at it since it first came on air.
[quote][p][bold]Bobevans[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]-trigg-[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Bobevans[/bold] wrote: S4C in Terminal Decline? S4C has lost almost 20% of it's peak viewing audience. Off peak numbers have also fallen but by a smaller amount but the off peak viewing figures were very low to start with Clearly their is little appetite for S4C programs in Welsh. Perhaps it is time that S4C recognised that 90% of the people in Wales uses English Welsh programs could be confined mainly to off peak hours. TV programs can now be easily be recorded Possibly S4C & BBC Wales should be merged[/p][/quote]To be fair, statiscally when you have as small a sample size as that, then it doesn't take many people switching off to create a huge percentage swing. As an example, if a show had 10 viewers then it would only take 2 to stop watching to produce a 20% decline.[/p][/quote]POBOL Y CWM 37,000 viewers 35 DIWRNOD 31,000 viewers ROWND A ROWND 20,000 Viewers CEFN GWLAD 13,500 viewers CREU CYMRU FODERN 9.000 viewers And this are some of the Top 20 Programs. Don't ask about the bottom 20[/p][/quote]POBOL Y CWM 37,000 viewers 35 DIWRNOD 31,000 viewers ROWND A ROWND 20,000 Viewers CEFN GWLAD 13,500 viewers CREU CYMRU FODERN 9.000 viewers So, according to the Plaid pundits some 10% of the population are Cymraeg fluent. It doesn't say much for the take up then when only about 10% of those fluents, (1% of the population), watch the most popular Cymraeg language programme does it? It speaks volumes about just how much money is wasted on it though.considering that S4C has had something like a billion quid, at least., thrown at it since it first came on air. varteg1
  • Score: 0

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