Rich get richer

First published in Letters

ACCORDING to Britain’s wealthiest 100 people are worth £300bn, forty billion quid better off than last year. The top 1,000 are sitting on £519bn, double what it was five years ago. It’s the same the world over, it’s the poor who gets the blame, and it’s the rich that gets the pleasures.Take Gerald Cavendish Grosvenor, Duke of Westminster worth £8.5bn, a £450m rise since last year. All because a knight called Hugh de Gras Veneur came over the William I and pinched a large chunk of Cheshire. Stolen property should be returned, so Gerald Let’s have it back. On the issue of property, More than half a million Britain’s are facing repossession or eviction. According to a new analysis on households by the courts during the past year.

The scale of the crisis equates to more than 4,000 households being at the risk of losing their homes each week.

Andrew Nutt Heolddu Road Bargoed

Comments (21)

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11:46am Tue 27 May 14

Walter Devereux says...

It is hard to take you seriously most of the time, but with a letter riddled with so many errors -- where to begin? He "came over the William I" did he? Oo-er missus! "Half a million Britain’s" eh? I think you may mean Britons (with no apostrophe). Rather than moaning about how well others have it why not try and better yourself?
It is hard to take you seriously most of the time, but with a letter riddled with so many errors -- where to begin? He "came over the William I" did he? Oo-er missus! "Half a million Britain’s" eh? I think you may mean Britons (with no apostrophe). Rather than moaning about how well others have it why not try and better yourself? Walter Devereux
  • Score: 0

2:53pm Tue 27 May 14

varteg1 says...

As an ordinary person, can you suggest to me a way I can Legally and legitimately make a mere million quid, never mind a thousand time that.
Please do not tell me to copy Dyson or Terry Mathews, they have done their corner to death, leaving no room for a non technical person to get ahead.

Many who have made that magic first million have done so by helping the creation of the last housing bubble that effectively brought down the economic systems many countries post 2008.

So WD, where to go to get rich as the Duke of Westminster, beyond becoming a so called 'property developer' ( crook), or compliant hanger on, (estate agent), or some other form of fiscal manipulator, which of course requires substantial funding to even begin anyway.

Over to you as you seem to be so erudite in the grand scheme of becoming wealthy..
As an ordinary person, can you suggest to me a way I can Legally and legitimately make a mere million quid, never mind a thousand time that. Please do not tell me to copy Dyson or Terry Mathews, they have done their corner to death, leaving no room for a non technical person to get ahead. Many who have made that magic first million have done so by helping the creation of the last housing bubble that effectively brought down the economic systems many countries post 2008. So WD, where to go to get rich as the Duke of Westminster, beyond becoming a so called 'property developer' ( crook), or compliant hanger on, (estate agent), or some other form of fiscal manipulator, which of course requires substantial funding to even begin anyway. Over to you as you seem to be so erudite in the grand scheme of becoming wealthy.. varteg1
  • Score: 4

3:06pm Tue 27 May 14

-trigg- says...

It seems the way to make a fortune these days is to create a tech company with a product that can be either a threat to or exploited by one of the big players, then allow said big player to buy the company from you at a grossly inflated price.

If it was easy we'd all be doing it
It seems the way to make a fortune these days is to create a tech company with a product that can be either a threat to or exploited by one of the big players, then allow said big player to buy the company from you at a grossly inflated price. If it was easy we'd all be doing it -trigg-
  • Score: -1

5:23pm Tue 27 May 14

Llanmartinangel says...

varteg1 wrote:
As an ordinary person, can you suggest to me a way I can Legally and legitimately make a mere million quid, never mind a thousand time that.
Please do not tell me to copy Dyson or Terry Mathews, they have done their corner to death, leaving no room for a non technical person to get ahead.

Many who have made that magic first million have done so by helping the creation of the last housing bubble that effectively brought down the economic systems many countries post 2008.

So WD, where to go to get rich as the Duke of Westminster, beyond becoming a so called 'property developer' ( crook), or compliant hanger on, (estate agent), or some other form of fiscal manipulator, which of course requires substantial funding to even begin anyway.

Over to you as you seem to be so erudite in the grand scheme of becoming wealthy..
Hang on. Property developers crooks? I did two jobs from age 16 to buy my first place. I then worked weekends on it for a year and sold it to buy two more. For eight years I did the same with little leisure time. I had no money from parents and didn't inherit either. I now pay more than half my earnings in tax, (when you add in NI etc), which is my 'reward' for the hard work. Making money isn't easy but having a pop at people who do is. Given that the top ten per cent earners pay sixty per cent of all the income tax, avoiding it can't be that easy either.
[quote][p][bold]varteg1[/bold] wrote: As an ordinary person, can you suggest to me a way I can Legally and legitimately make a mere million quid, never mind a thousand time that. Please do not tell me to copy Dyson or Terry Mathews, they have done their corner to death, leaving no room for a non technical person to get ahead. Many who have made that magic first million have done so by helping the creation of the last housing bubble that effectively brought down the economic systems many countries post 2008. So WD, where to go to get rich as the Duke of Westminster, beyond becoming a so called 'property developer' ( crook), or compliant hanger on, (estate agent), or some other form of fiscal manipulator, which of course requires substantial funding to even begin anyway. Over to you as you seem to be so erudite in the grand scheme of becoming wealthy..[/p][/quote]Hang on. Property developers crooks? I did two jobs from age 16 to buy my first place. I then worked weekends on it for a year and sold it to buy two more. For eight years I did the same with little leisure time. I had no money from parents and didn't inherit either. I now pay more than half my earnings in tax, (when you add in NI etc), which is my 'reward' for the hard work. Making money isn't easy but having a pop at people who do is. Given that the top ten per cent earners pay sixty per cent of all the income tax, avoiding it can't be that easy either. Llanmartinangel
  • Score: 1

9:38pm Tue 27 May 14

varteg1 says...

Llanmartinangel wrote:
varteg1 wrote:
As an ordinary person, can you suggest to me a way I can Legally and legitimately make a mere million quid, never mind a thousand time that.
Please do not tell me to copy Dyson or Terry Mathews, they have done their corner to death, leaving no room for a non technical person to get ahead.

Many who have made that magic first million have done so by helping the creation of the last housing bubble that effectively brought down the economic systems many countries post 2008.

So WD, where to go to get rich as the Duke of Westminster, beyond becoming a so called 'property developer' ( crook), or compliant hanger on, (estate agent), or some other form of fiscal manipulator, which of course requires substantial funding to even begin anyway.

Over to you as you seem to be so erudite in the grand scheme of becoming wealthy..
Hang on. Property developers crooks? I did two jobs from age 16 to buy my first place. I then worked weekends on it for a year and sold it to buy two more. For eight years I did the same with little leisure time. I had no money from parents and didn't inherit either. I now pay more than half my earnings in tax, (when you add in NI etc), which is my 'reward' for the hard work. Making money isn't easy but having a pop at people who do is. Given that the top ten per cent earners pay sixty per cent of all the income tax, avoiding it can't be that easy either.
I do not consider a person who buys a house, does it up and sells for what often is little more than a price to be able to buy another house, the same way as I look at those sorts who appear on TV buying run down properties at auction, then quite blatantly boast of making thirty, forty or more thousands from their dealings as they sell on.

To me your sort are just being careful and prudent, those others are parasites. Then, when it comes to buying up job lots of property portfolios that are built up for the sole purpose of so called 'developing', that is why the housing market collapsed, taking the savings and homes of hundreds of thousands with it.

Now if you wish to include yourself in either of the two I mention, so be it, Making vast margins from the buying and selling of property, and don't forget, it applies just as much to commercial property as well as domestic.

As for tac avoidance, take a look at today's news where the tax man has declared he has 'recovered' some billions of Pounds, which, had there not been a fuss made in the recent past, no doubt would never have been collected.

The vast majority of workers in this country are on PAYE, where they have not the slightest chance of fiddling their tax, or avoiding payintg it, certainly not evading it.

Don't give me the whinge about the wealthy pay ex amount into the system, they effectively took it out of the system in the first place,
When someone puts together a heap of plastic crap for pennies, , removes their factory even then to low wage economy areas and sells their heap of crap for thousands of percent above their manufacturing costs, I have no hesitation in saying they need to be taxed at enormous rates to regain to the system, the money they have extracted from the system in their exploitative activities.
Or in the case of the entertainment farago, where a bit of plastic gets enscribed with some signal or other, a process costing pence, but returns a margin so high it creates billionaires of wailing pop stars, and so called whizz kids in management.

I like the Beatles music, and Abba, but there is no way on earth they and the mob behind them are worth the vast sums that have bloated their banks accounts

I believe in moderation. that is why my prices to clients when working as a builder were affordable, and why I made little more than a wage, and why in owning just three houses after renting for many years, I have never made a penny profit from selling them on..

You misinterpret my meanings in this, I take no pop at people who act and behave rationally without avarice, but I take exception to the exploitation we have had to suffer for at least the whole of my lifetime, which is now coming up to 78 years.

It is not logical nor rational that so called entrepreneurs have increased their wealth with almost no effort, so that the wealth held by a small cabal runs at almost the same wealth level of a many small nations, all to the deprivation of an ever increasing number within our own nation.
There has been so much taken out of the system, it is now wonder many are on the breadline.

If this was water we were talking about their dams would soon be breached.
[quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]varteg1[/bold] wrote: As an ordinary person, can you suggest to me a way I can Legally and legitimately make a mere million quid, never mind a thousand time that. Please do not tell me to copy Dyson or Terry Mathews, they have done their corner to death, leaving no room for a non technical person to get ahead. Many who have made that magic first million have done so by helping the creation of the last housing bubble that effectively brought down the economic systems many countries post 2008. So WD, where to go to get rich as the Duke of Westminster, beyond becoming a so called 'property developer' ( crook), or compliant hanger on, (estate agent), or some other form of fiscal manipulator, which of course requires substantial funding to even begin anyway. Over to you as you seem to be so erudite in the grand scheme of becoming wealthy..[/p][/quote]Hang on. Property developers crooks? I did two jobs from age 16 to buy my first place. I then worked weekends on it for a year and sold it to buy two more. For eight years I did the same with little leisure time. I had no money from parents and didn't inherit either. I now pay more than half my earnings in tax, (when you add in NI etc), which is my 'reward' for the hard work. Making money isn't easy but having a pop at people who do is. Given that the top ten per cent earners pay sixty per cent of all the income tax, avoiding it can't be that easy either.[/p][/quote]I do not consider a person who buys a house, does it up and sells for what often is little more than a price to be able to buy another house, the same way as I look at those sorts who appear on TV buying run down properties at auction, then quite blatantly boast of making thirty, forty or more thousands from their dealings as they sell on. To me your sort are just being careful and prudent, those others are parasites. Then, when it comes to buying up job lots of property portfolios that are built up for the sole purpose of so called 'developing', that is why the housing market collapsed, taking the savings and homes of hundreds of thousands with it. Now if you wish to include yourself in either of the two I mention, so be it, Making vast margins from the buying and selling of property, and don't forget, it applies just as much to commercial property as well as domestic. As for tac avoidance, take a look at today's news where the tax man has declared he has 'recovered' some billions of Pounds, which, had there not been a fuss made in the recent past, no doubt would never have been collected. The vast majority of workers in this country are on PAYE, where they have not the slightest chance of fiddling their tax, or avoiding payintg it, certainly not evading it. Don't give me the whinge about the wealthy pay ex amount into the system, they effectively took it out of the system in the first place, When someone puts together a heap of plastic crap for pennies, , removes their factory even then to low wage economy areas and sells their heap of crap for thousands of percent above their manufacturing costs, I have no hesitation in saying they need to be taxed at enormous rates to regain to the system, the money they have extracted from the system in their exploitative activities. Or in the case of the entertainment farago, where a bit of plastic gets enscribed with some signal or other, a process costing pence, but returns a margin so high it creates billionaires of wailing pop stars, and so called whizz kids in management. I like the Beatles music, and Abba, but there is no way on earth they and the mob behind them are worth the vast sums that have bloated their banks accounts I believe in moderation. that is why my prices to clients when working as a builder were affordable, and why I made little more than a wage, and why in owning just three houses after renting for many years, I have never made a penny profit from selling them on.. You misinterpret my meanings in this, I take no pop at people who act and behave rationally without avarice, but I take exception to the exploitation we have had to suffer for at least the whole of my lifetime, which is now coming up to 78 years. It is not logical nor rational that so called entrepreneurs have increased their wealth with almost no effort, so that the wealth held by a small cabal runs at almost the same wealth level of a many small nations, all to the deprivation of an ever increasing number within our own nation. There has been so much taken out of the system, it is now wonder many are on the breadline. If this was water we were talking about their dams would soon be breached. varteg1
  • Score: 3

11:27pm Tue 27 May 14

pwlldu says...

Only the rich can afford a team of accounts to advice them on how to legally avoid paying too much tax.
Only the rich can afford a team of accounts to advice them on how to legally avoid paying too much tax. pwlldu
  • Score: 8

7:26am Wed 28 May 14

Llanmartinangel says...

varteg1 wrote:
Llanmartinangel wrote:
varteg1 wrote:
As an ordinary person, can you suggest to me a way I can Legally and legitimately make a mere million quid, never mind a thousand time that.
Please do not tell me to copy Dyson or Terry Mathews, they have done their corner to death, leaving no room for a non technical person to get ahead.

Many who have made that magic first million have done so by helping the creation of the last housing bubble that effectively brought down the economic systems many countries post 2008.

So WD, where to go to get rich as the Duke of Westminster, beyond becoming a so called 'property developer' ( crook), or compliant hanger on, (estate agent), or some other form of fiscal manipulator, which of course requires substantial funding to even begin anyway.

Over to you as you seem to be so erudite in the grand scheme of becoming wealthy..
Hang on. Property developers crooks? I did two jobs from age 16 to buy my first place. I then worked weekends on it for a year and sold it to buy two more. For eight years I did the same with little leisure time. I had no money from parents and didn't inherit either. I now pay more than half my earnings in tax, (when you add in NI etc), which is my 'reward' for the hard work. Making money isn't easy but having a pop at people who do is. Given that the top ten per cent earners pay sixty per cent of all the income tax, avoiding it can't be that easy either.
I do not consider a person who buys a house, does it up and sells for what often is little more than a price to be able to buy another house, the same way as I look at those sorts who appear on TV buying run down properties at auction, then quite blatantly boast of making thirty, forty or more thousands from their dealings as they sell on.

To me your sort are just being careful and prudent, those others are parasites. Then, when it comes to buying up job lots of property portfolios that are built up for the sole purpose of so called 'developing', that is why the housing market collapsed, taking the savings and homes of hundreds of thousands with it.

Now if you wish to include yourself in either of the two I mention, so be it, Making vast margins from the buying and selling of property, and don't forget, it applies just as much to commercial property as well as domestic.

As for tac avoidance, take a look at today's news where the tax man has declared he has 'recovered' some billions of Pounds, which, had there not been a fuss made in the recent past, no doubt would never have been collected.

The vast majority of workers in this country are on PAYE, where they have not the slightest chance of fiddling their tax, or avoiding payintg it, certainly not evading it.

Don't give me the whinge about the wealthy pay ex amount into the system, they effectively took it out of the system in the first place,
When someone puts together a heap of plastic crap for pennies, , removes their factory even then to low wage economy areas and sells their heap of crap for thousands of percent above their manufacturing costs, I have no hesitation in saying they need to be taxed at enormous rates to regain to the system, the money they have extracted from the system in their exploitative activities.
Or in the case of the entertainment farago, where a bit of plastic gets enscribed with some signal or other, a process costing pence, but returns a margin so high it creates billionaires of wailing pop stars, and so called whizz kids in management.

I like the Beatles music, and Abba, but there is no way on earth they and the mob behind them are worth the vast sums that have bloated their banks accounts

I believe in moderation. that is why my prices to clients when working as a builder were affordable, and why I made little more than a wage, and why in owning just three houses after renting for many years, I have never made a penny profit from selling them on..

You misinterpret my meanings in this, I take no pop at people who act and behave rationally without avarice, but I take exception to the exploitation we have had to suffer for at least the whole of my lifetime, which is now coming up to 78 years.

It is not logical nor rational that so called entrepreneurs have increased their wealth with almost no effort, so that the wealth held by a small cabal runs at almost the same wealth level of a many small nations, all to the deprivation of an ever increasing number within our own nation.
There has been so much taken out of the system, it is now wonder many are on the breadline.

If this was water we were talking about their dams would soon be breached.
Those people on TV you talk about take all the risk on themselves. If they make a profit they pay Capial Gains Tax. If they lose it's their hard luck. I and some people I know, got fingers burned in the crash. We don't make the rules, aren't a burden on the state and pay hefty taxes. Agree the system is a long way from perfect but before you go discouraging people who graft to get on, remember that, once you remove all reward from entrepreneurship and hard work, progress stops and everyone gets poorer for it.
[quote][p][bold]varteg1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]varteg1[/bold] wrote: As an ordinary person, can you suggest to me a way I can Legally and legitimately make a mere million quid, never mind a thousand time that. Please do not tell me to copy Dyson or Terry Mathews, they have done their corner to death, leaving no room for a non technical person to get ahead. Many who have made that magic first million have done so by helping the creation of the last housing bubble that effectively brought down the economic systems many countries post 2008. So WD, where to go to get rich as the Duke of Westminster, beyond becoming a so called 'property developer' ( crook), or compliant hanger on, (estate agent), or some other form of fiscal manipulator, which of course requires substantial funding to even begin anyway. Over to you as you seem to be so erudite in the grand scheme of becoming wealthy..[/p][/quote]Hang on. Property developers crooks? I did two jobs from age 16 to buy my first place. I then worked weekends on it for a year and sold it to buy two more. For eight years I did the same with little leisure time. I had no money from parents and didn't inherit either. I now pay more than half my earnings in tax, (when you add in NI etc), which is my 'reward' for the hard work. Making money isn't easy but having a pop at people who do is. Given that the top ten per cent earners pay sixty per cent of all the income tax, avoiding it can't be that easy either.[/p][/quote]I do not consider a person who buys a house, does it up and sells for what often is little more than a price to be able to buy another house, the same way as I look at those sorts who appear on TV buying run down properties at auction, then quite blatantly boast of making thirty, forty or more thousands from their dealings as they sell on. To me your sort are just being careful and prudent, those others are parasites. Then, when it comes to buying up job lots of property portfolios that are built up for the sole purpose of so called 'developing', that is why the housing market collapsed, taking the savings and homes of hundreds of thousands with it. Now if you wish to include yourself in either of the two I mention, so be it, Making vast margins from the buying and selling of property, and don't forget, it applies just as much to commercial property as well as domestic. As for tac avoidance, take a look at today's news where the tax man has declared he has 'recovered' some billions of Pounds, which, had there not been a fuss made in the recent past, no doubt would never have been collected. The vast majority of workers in this country are on PAYE, where they have not the slightest chance of fiddling their tax, or avoiding payintg it, certainly not evading it. Don't give me the whinge about the wealthy pay ex amount into the system, they effectively took it out of the system in the first place, When someone puts together a heap of plastic crap for pennies, , removes their factory even then to low wage economy areas and sells their heap of crap for thousands of percent above their manufacturing costs, I have no hesitation in saying they need to be taxed at enormous rates to regain to the system, the money they have extracted from the system in their exploitative activities. Or in the case of the entertainment farago, where a bit of plastic gets enscribed with some signal or other, a process costing pence, but returns a margin so high it creates billionaires of wailing pop stars, and so called whizz kids in management. I like the Beatles music, and Abba, but there is no way on earth they and the mob behind them are worth the vast sums that have bloated their banks accounts I believe in moderation. that is why my prices to clients when working as a builder were affordable, and why I made little more than a wage, and why in owning just three houses after renting for many years, I have never made a penny profit from selling them on.. You misinterpret my meanings in this, I take no pop at people who act and behave rationally without avarice, but I take exception to the exploitation we have had to suffer for at least the whole of my lifetime, which is now coming up to 78 years. It is not logical nor rational that so called entrepreneurs have increased their wealth with almost no effort, so that the wealth held by a small cabal runs at almost the same wealth level of a many small nations, all to the deprivation of an ever increasing number within our own nation. There has been so much taken out of the system, it is now wonder many are on the breadline. If this was water we were talking about their dams would soon be breached.[/p][/quote]Those people on TV you talk about take all the risk on themselves. If they make a profit they pay Capial Gains Tax. If they lose it's their hard luck. I and some people I know, got fingers burned in the crash. We don't make the rules, aren't a burden on the state and pay hefty taxes. Agree the system is a long way from perfect but before you go discouraging people who graft to get on, remember that, once you remove all reward from entrepreneurship and hard work, progress stops and everyone gets poorer for it. Llanmartinangel
  • Score: -2

7:28am Wed 28 May 14

Llanmartinangel says...

pwlldu wrote:
Only the rich can afford a team of accounts to advice them on how to legally avoid paying too much tax.
If it's legal and they are paying for the advice then so what?
[quote][p][bold]pwlldu[/bold] wrote: Only the rich can afford a team of accounts to advice them on how to legally avoid paying too much tax.[/p][/quote]If it's legal and they are paying for the advice then so what? Llanmartinangel
  • Score: -3

8:59am Wed 28 May 14

Stevenboy says...

pwlldu wrote:
Only the rich can afford a team of accounts to advice them on how to legally avoid paying too much tax.
Is it your contention that people who have come by their money legally shouldn't be able to spend it how they like? Please explain.
[quote][p][bold]pwlldu[/bold] wrote: Only the rich can afford a team of accounts to advice them on how to legally avoid paying too much tax.[/p][/quote]Is it your contention that people who have come by their money legally shouldn't be able to spend it how they like? Please explain. Stevenboy
  • Score: -1

10:55am Wed 28 May 14

varteg1 says...

Llanmartin.....

my point re those TV 'entrepreneurs' is, the concept attempts to persuade others to follow suit, may of whom fail and lose money they either cannot afford to lose, or that sends them to insolvency.

As a one time employer in the building industry, it was my misfortune to have dealings with quite a few of these folk, they had not the slightest idea of how to run a business, and went in feet first and were soon over their heads in debt: all because their greed overtook their common sense. Once again I tell you It is not the ordinary but competent person I criticise, but those that think they can become as rich a Grosvenor or Gates et al, by simply attempting to get on the property ladder, often under the mistaken belief by doing so they have been granted a licence to print money.
The others I criticise are those that 'develop' property, when all they are in fact doing is pressurising costs ever skywards

An example... many years ago I built a small factory on a piece of land on the Wirral, the land sold to me for 1800 quid. The factory was completed for 23 thousand.

Twenty years later the factory was bought by a major food manufacturer/ wholesaler. I researched the matter because of my initial interest in it, and saw it had changed hands for 34 thousand. in 2009 it was disposed of by that major food firm, the factory was demolished and the land sold for 385 thousand.

Now tell me that was either rational or just. They have stuck forty odd houses on that small plot of land, each of which initially sold for 145 thousand each, but are now selling for over 280 thousand,

Do you really tell me that is OK? I find it despicable.
Llanmartin..... my point re those TV 'entrepreneurs' is, the concept attempts to persuade others to follow suit, may of whom fail and lose money they either cannot afford to lose, or that sends them to insolvency. As a one time employer in the building industry, it was my misfortune to have dealings with quite a few of these folk, they had not the slightest idea of how to run a business, and went in feet first and were soon over their heads in debt: all because their greed overtook their common sense. Once again I tell you It is not the ordinary but competent person I criticise, but those that think they can become as rich a Grosvenor or Gates et al, by simply attempting to get on the property ladder, often under the mistaken belief by doing so they have been granted a licence to print money. The others I criticise are those that 'develop' property, when all they are in fact doing is pressurising costs ever skywards An example... many years ago I built a small factory on a piece of land on the Wirral, the land sold to me for 1800 quid. The factory was completed for 23 thousand. Twenty years later the factory was bought by a major food manufacturer/ wholesaler. I researched the matter because of my initial interest in it, and saw it had changed hands for 34 thousand. in 2009 it was disposed of by that major food firm, the factory was demolished and the land sold for 385 thousand. Now tell me that was either rational or just. They have stuck forty odd houses on that small plot of land, each of which initially sold for 145 thousand each, but are now selling for over 280 thousand, Do you really tell me that is OK? I find it despicable. varteg1
  • Score: 8

11:09am Wed 28 May 14

varteg1 says...

Stevenboy wrote:
pwlldu wrote:
Only the rich can afford a team of accounts to advice them on how to legally avoid paying too much tax.
Is it your contention that people who have come by their money legally shouldn't be able to spend it how they like? Please explain.
It is not that they have made money, or that they should be told how to spend it, the matter is more profound than such a simplistic assessment.

The money pool gets constricted into ever decreasing numbers of hands,.

Much of it then exits the UK and finds residence in off shore resorts, where no matter how it is spent, it fails to service the economy where it was made.
The old saying....money is made round to go around, ...is as valid a reason today as it ever was when first coined, and stuffing it into a depository where is remains static, does neither the owner of it, nor the economy where it was made, any good at all.
The evil of such a swung wealth into the hands of fewer and fewer people means those people have no reason to spend it any way at all.

Irrespective of the lassaiz fair aspect of monetary wealth, there is an immorality in such vast wealth being conducted through the capital system into an ever narrowing channel that leads to obscene riches being controlled by a cabal of mega wealthy oligarchs.

Few of whom can be persuaded to voluntarily donate towards the well being of the rest, hence the need to extract a higher proportion of their gained wealth in to the common coffers, via the taxation system.

Manipulating that tax system tom the benefit of already wealthy as has been the case with the present governments fiscal policies, is obscene.
[quote][p][bold]Stevenboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pwlldu[/bold] wrote: Only the rich can afford a team of accounts to advice them on how to legally avoid paying too much tax.[/p][/quote]Is it your contention that people who have come by their money legally shouldn't be able to spend it how they like? Please explain.[/p][/quote]It is not that they have made money, or that they should be told how to spend it, the matter is more profound than such a simplistic assessment. The money pool gets constricted into ever decreasing numbers of hands,. Much of it then exits the UK and finds residence in off shore resorts, where no matter how it is spent, it fails to service the economy where it was made. The old saying....money is made round to go around, ...is as valid a reason today as it ever was when first coined, and stuffing it into a depository where is remains static, does neither the owner of it, nor the economy where it was made, any good at all. The evil of such a swung wealth into the hands of fewer and fewer people means those people have no reason to spend it any way at all. Irrespective of the lassaiz fair aspect of monetary wealth, there is an immorality in such vast wealth being conducted through the capital system into an ever narrowing channel that leads to obscene riches being controlled by a cabal of mega wealthy oligarchs. Few of whom can be persuaded to voluntarily donate towards the well being of the rest, hence the need to extract a higher proportion of their gained wealth in to the common coffers, via the taxation system. Manipulating that tax system tom the benefit of already wealthy as has been the case with the present governments fiscal policies, is obscene. varteg1
  • Score: 6

1:09pm Wed 28 May 14

throwy1 says...

There is a way in which you can make mega bucks, the main problem is having the guts to borrow money to follow an idea in the first place. Yes I have an idea, sadly I admit I don't have the bottle to follow it through.
There is a way in which you can make mega bucks, the main problem is having the guts to borrow money to follow an idea in the first place. Yes I have an idea, sadly I admit I don't have the bottle to follow it through. throwy1
  • Score: 0

3:28pm Wed 28 May 14

blackandamber says...

Ok we will put the tax rate up to 75% like France. The result London is now Frances fifth biggest city by population. The reason, the politics of envy.
Ok we will put the tax rate up to 75% like France. The result London is now Frances fifth biggest city by population. The reason, the politics of envy. blackandamber
  • Score: -2

3:39pm Wed 28 May 14

welshmen says...

pwlldu wrote:
Only the rich can afford a team of accounts to advice them on how to legally avoid paying too much tax.
Your allowed Accountant's Fees in your Tax allowance if your self employed piddlypoo....
[quote][p][bold]pwlldu[/bold] wrote: Only the rich can afford a team of accounts to advice them on how to legally avoid paying too much tax.[/p][/quote]Your allowed Accountant's Fees in your Tax allowance if your self employed piddlypoo.... welshmen
  • Score: -2

4:20pm Wed 28 May 14

Stevenboy says...

blackandamber wrote:
Ok we will put the tax rate up to 75% like France. The result London is now Frances fifth biggest city by population. The reason, the politics of envy.
Correct. In the first months of Hollande taking power and promising to increase taxes, 60 billion Euros left France. Result? His tax take fell. Money is portable and Socialists are intrinsically stupid.
[quote][p][bold]blackandamber[/bold] wrote: Ok we will put the tax rate up to 75% like France. The result London is now Frances fifth biggest city by population. The reason, the politics of envy.[/p][/quote]Correct. In the first months of Hollande taking power and promising to increase taxes, 60 billion Euros left France. Result? His tax take fell. Money is portable and Socialists are intrinsically stupid. Stevenboy
  • Score: -1

4:27pm Wed 28 May 14

Stevenboy says...

varteg1 wrote:
Stevenboy wrote:
pwlldu wrote:
Only the rich can afford a team of accounts to advice them on how to legally avoid paying too much tax.
Is it your contention that people who have come by their money legally shouldn't be able to spend it how they like? Please explain.
It is not that they have made money, or that they should be told how to spend it, the matter is more profound than such a simplistic assessment.

The money pool gets constricted into ever decreasing numbers of hands,.

Much of it then exits the UK and finds residence in off shore resorts, where no matter how it is spent, it fails to service the economy where it was made.
The old saying....money is made round to go around, ...is as valid a reason today as it ever was when first coined, and stuffing it into a depository where is remains static, does neither the owner of it, nor the economy where it was made, any good at all.
The evil of such a swung wealth into the hands of fewer and fewer people means those people have no reason to spend it any way at all.

Irrespective of the lassaiz fair aspect of monetary wealth, there is an immorality in such vast wealth being conducted through the capital system into an ever narrowing channel that leads to obscene riches being controlled by a cabal of mega wealthy oligarchs.

Few of whom can be persuaded to voluntarily donate towards the well being of the rest, hence the need to extract a higher proportion of their gained wealth in to the common coffers, via the taxation system.

Manipulating that tax system tom the benefit of already wealthy as has been the case with the present governments fiscal policies, is obscene.
So what is your answer? The French tried what you advocate and look what happened. If anyone has found a way of limiting how wealthy someone can become then why hasn't it appeared? The world isn't perfect but attempts to flatten wealth out fail time after time.
[quote][p][bold]varteg1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stevenboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pwlldu[/bold] wrote: Only the rich can afford a team of accounts to advice them on how to legally avoid paying too much tax.[/p][/quote]Is it your contention that people who have come by their money legally shouldn't be able to spend it how they like? Please explain.[/p][/quote]It is not that they have made money, or that they should be told how to spend it, the matter is more profound than such a simplistic assessment. The money pool gets constricted into ever decreasing numbers of hands,. Much of it then exits the UK and finds residence in off shore resorts, where no matter how it is spent, it fails to service the economy where it was made. The old saying....money is made round to go around, ...is as valid a reason today as it ever was when first coined, and stuffing it into a depository where is remains static, does neither the owner of it, nor the economy where it was made, any good at all. The evil of such a swung wealth into the hands of fewer and fewer people means those people have no reason to spend it any way at all. Irrespective of the lassaiz fair aspect of monetary wealth, there is an immorality in such vast wealth being conducted through the capital system into an ever narrowing channel that leads to obscene riches being controlled by a cabal of mega wealthy oligarchs. Few of whom can be persuaded to voluntarily donate towards the well being of the rest, hence the need to extract a higher proportion of their gained wealth in to the common coffers, via the taxation system. Manipulating that tax system tom the benefit of already wealthy as has been the case with the present governments fiscal policies, is obscene.[/p][/quote]So what is your answer? The French tried what you advocate and look what happened. If anyone has found a way of limiting how wealthy someone can become then why hasn't it appeared? The world isn't perfect but attempts to flatten wealth out fail time after time. Stevenboy
  • Score: -2

5:42pm Wed 28 May 14

endthelies says...

Lets see what would happen if the ordinary working class person decided to 'legally avoid' paying their taxes. What would happen then? Education, health etc ,etc would have no income. So why should the ordinary man in the street take the burden of the country's tax bill off the rich? He has to pay tax on his earnings and the more he earns, the more tax he pays. Why should the rich be different?
Lets see what would happen if the ordinary working class person decided to 'legally avoid' paying their taxes. What would happen then? Education, health etc ,etc would have no income. So why should the ordinary man in the street take the burden of the country's tax bill off the rich? He has to pay tax on his earnings and the more he earns, the more tax he pays. Why should the rich be different? endthelies
  • Score: 4

7:35pm Wed 28 May 14

varteg1 says...

Stevenboy wrote:
varteg1 wrote:
Stevenboy wrote:
pwlldu wrote:
Only the rich can afford a team of accounts to advice them on how to legally avoid paying too much tax.
Is it your contention that people who have come by their money legally shouldn't be able to spend it how they like? Please explain.
It is not that they have made money, or that they should be told how to spend it, the matter is more profound than such a simplistic assessment.

The money pool gets constricted into ever decreasing numbers of hands,.

Much of it then exits the UK and finds residence in off shore resorts, where no matter how it is spent, it fails to service the economy where it was made.
The old saying....money is made round to go around, ...is as valid a reason today as it ever was when first coined, and stuffing it into a depository where is remains static, does neither the owner of it, nor the economy where it was made, any good at all.
The evil of such a swung wealth into the hands of fewer and fewer people means those people have no reason to spend it any way at all.

Irrespective of the lassaiz fair aspect of monetary wealth, there is an immorality in such vast wealth being conducted through the capital system into an ever narrowing channel that leads to obscene riches being controlled by a cabal of mega wealthy oligarchs.

Few of whom can be persuaded to voluntarily donate towards the well being of the rest, hence the need to extract a higher proportion of their gained wealth in to the common coffers, via the taxation system.

Manipulating that tax system tom the benefit of already wealthy as has been the case with the present governments fiscal policies, is obscene.
So what is your answer? The French tried what you advocate and look what happened. If anyone has found a way of limiting how wealthy someone can become then why hasn't it appeared? The world isn't perfect but attempts to flatten wealth out fail time after time.
Not so long ago we had a tax regime where much more tax was paid by the wealthy, it didn't put them off, because their wealth in tax went to substantiate and sustain the economy.
Then along came the fiddlers and manipulators who used their financial smack to persuade, (not that it needed much), their favourite government to reduce the levels of taxation.

The result of which has been to see what they have gained fly off shore and away from our economy.

The same happened in the USA, as soon as the fiscal markets were de regulated and tax burdens reduced by the recent Federal governments, under Reagan, and Bush, billions,. no...trillions went out of the system.

The net result is vast amounts of wealth no longer lie in the economies of the west, much of it lies idle, and needs to be recovered in to the economy where it was generated.

The French did not try what I advocate, they tried to massage the system so mthat in aiming to get some movement in their economy ythey tolersted tyhe situation, but put certain blocks on further outpouring of wealth. They never raised the thresholds back to where they really should be.

This is why the EU needs a cooperative and coordinated fiscal taxation regime.

But as long as people like you keep on bleating about loss of financial 'freedom', the longer it will take to engage corrective measures that will set our economic well being back on track.

Under the regulated monetary regimes that lasted for almost a century, we had relative stability and economic health, since Thatcher Reagan and the Bush's it has all gone to hell on a handcart.
[quote][p][bold]Stevenboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]varteg1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stevenboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pwlldu[/bold] wrote: Only the rich can afford a team of accounts to advice them on how to legally avoid paying too much tax.[/p][/quote]Is it your contention that people who have come by their money legally shouldn't be able to spend it how they like? Please explain.[/p][/quote]It is not that they have made money, or that they should be told how to spend it, the matter is more profound than such a simplistic assessment. The money pool gets constricted into ever decreasing numbers of hands,. Much of it then exits the UK and finds residence in off shore resorts, where no matter how it is spent, it fails to service the economy where it was made. The old saying....money is made round to go around, ...is as valid a reason today as it ever was when first coined, and stuffing it into a depository where is remains static, does neither the owner of it, nor the economy where it was made, any good at all. The evil of such a swung wealth into the hands of fewer and fewer people means those people have no reason to spend it any way at all. Irrespective of the lassaiz fair aspect of monetary wealth, there is an immorality in such vast wealth being conducted through the capital system into an ever narrowing channel that leads to obscene riches being controlled by a cabal of mega wealthy oligarchs. Few of whom can be persuaded to voluntarily donate towards the well being of the rest, hence the need to extract a higher proportion of their gained wealth in to the common coffers, via the taxation system. Manipulating that tax system tom the benefit of already wealthy as has been the case with the present governments fiscal policies, is obscene.[/p][/quote]So what is your answer? The French tried what you advocate and look what happened. If anyone has found a way of limiting how wealthy someone can become then why hasn't it appeared? The world isn't perfect but attempts to flatten wealth out fail time after time.[/p][/quote]Not so long ago we had a tax regime where much more tax was paid by the wealthy, it didn't put them off, because their wealth in tax went to substantiate and sustain the economy. Then along came the fiddlers and manipulators who used their financial smack to persuade, (not that it needed much), their favourite government to reduce the levels of taxation. The result of which has been to see what they have gained fly off shore and away from our economy. The same happened in the USA, as soon as the fiscal markets were de regulated and tax burdens reduced by the recent Federal governments, under Reagan, and Bush, billions,. no...trillions went out of the system. The net result is vast amounts of wealth no longer lie in the economies of the west, much of it lies idle, and needs to be recovered in to the economy where it was generated. The French did not try what I advocate, they tried to massage the system so mthat in aiming to get some movement in their economy ythey tolersted tyhe situation, but put certain blocks on further outpouring of wealth. They never raised the thresholds back to where they really should be. This is why the EU needs a cooperative and coordinated fiscal taxation regime. But as long as people like you keep on bleating about loss of financial 'freedom', the longer it will take to engage corrective measures that will set our economic well being back on track. Under the regulated monetary regimes that lasted for almost a century, we had relative stability and economic health, since Thatcher Reagan and the Bush's it has all gone to hell on a handcart. varteg1
  • Score: 5

7:48pm Wed 28 May 14

Mervyn James says...

Eat the rich :)
Eat the rich :) Mervyn James
  • Score: 2

1:50pm Thu 29 May 14

pwlldu says...

Most of the rich hide their money in the Channel Isles or Isle of Man, which I thought was part of the UK. Even though they both got more powers over their day to day lives than the welsh assembly.
Most of the rich hide their money in the Channel Isles or Isle of Man, which I thought was part of the UK. Even though they both got more powers over their day to day lives than the welsh assembly. pwlldu
  • Score: 5

9:55pm Sat 31 May 14

pwlldu says...

Most of the rich never worked a day in their lives. Wealth has been passed down.
Most of the rich never worked a day in their lives. Wealth has been passed down. pwlldu
  • Score: 5

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