Protest vote

First published in Letters

I AM greatly amused as our mainstream political leaders try to justify the success of the right wing parties following the Euro elections. It appears that they have come to the conclusion that those results are due to protest voting. How very astute of them, perhaps I can assist them as to why the people of this country feel disengaged from the body politic.

VAT at 20 per cent, bank bonuses, bedroom tax, welfare cuts, food banks, foreign aid, zero hours contracts, costly wars, immigration, lack of housing and last but not least, the continual erosion of our state by a collective of faceless career politicians in Brussels. Protest vote! You’re damn right it was.

Malcolm M. Richards Aberthaw Road Newport

Comments (20)

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1:18pm Mon 2 Jun 14

varteg1 says...

You were doing fine until you started on the EU bit.

Talk of faceless career politcians is wrong, they are ELECTED.

If you want to angst, and rant, try 'faceless' BUREAUCRATS in Brussels, just as 'faceless' as the same bods in your local town hall actually.

Wage earners, but with the responsibility of managing, and quite successfully, a bureaucracy overseeing a population of a half a billion European citizens,

'Faceless' they may be, but useless they certainly are not.

You had the option to vote for a politician of your choice in the recent Euro election, the question is....did you?
You were doing fine until you started on the EU bit. Talk of faceless career politcians is wrong, they are ELECTED. If you want to angst, and rant, try 'faceless' BUREAUCRATS in Brussels, just as 'faceless' as the same bods in your local town hall actually. Wage earners, but with the responsibility of managing, and quite successfully, a bureaucracy overseeing a population of a half a billion European citizens, 'Faceless' they may be, but useless they certainly are not. You had the option to vote for a politician of your choice in the recent Euro election, the question is....did you? varteg1
  • Score: 4

1:26pm Mon 2 Jun 14

-trigg- says...

varteg1 wrote:
You were doing fine until you started on the EU bit. Talk of faceless career politcians is wrong, they are ELECTED. If you want to angst, and rant, try 'faceless' BUREAUCRATS in Brussels, just as 'faceless' as the same bods in your local town hall actually. Wage earners, but with the responsibility of managing, and quite successfully, a bureaucracy overseeing a population of a half a billion European citizens, 'Faceless' they may be, but useless they certainly are not. You had the option to vote for a politician of your choice in the recent Euro election, the question is....did you?
...and doing so without having to worry about any pesdky details such as how much any of it would cost, or even keeping proper accounts.

The UK contribution to the EU this year alone is over £12 billion. Sadly, the EU accounts are so badly kept and riddled with fraud that they cannot even adequately explain where all the money is spent.

I personally disagree with some of the other gripes in this letter, but those issues pale into insignificance alongside the behemoth of waste known as the EU.
[quote][p][bold]varteg1[/bold] wrote: You were doing fine until you started on the EU bit. Talk of faceless career politcians is wrong, they are ELECTED. If you want to angst, and rant, try 'faceless' BUREAUCRATS in Brussels, just as 'faceless' as the same bods in your local town hall actually. Wage earners, but with the responsibility of managing, and quite successfully, a bureaucracy overseeing a population of a half a billion European citizens, 'Faceless' they may be, but useless they certainly are not. You had the option to vote for a politician of your choice in the recent Euro election, the question is....did you?[/p][/quote]...and doing so without having to worry about any pesdky details such as how much any of it would cost, or even keeping proper accounts. The UK contribution to the EU this year alone is over £12 billion. Sadly, the EU accounts are so badly kept and riddled with fraud that they cannot even adequately explain where all the money is spent. I personally disagree with some of the other gripes in this letter, but those issues pale into insignificance alongside the behemoth of waste known as the EU. -trigg-
  • Score: -3

5:19pm Mon 2 Jun 14

varteg1 says...

-trigg- wrote:
varteg1 wrote:
You were doing fine until you started on the EU bit. Talk of faceless career politcians is wrong, they are ELECTED. If you want to angst, and rant, try 'faceless' BUREAUCRATS in Brussels, just as 'faceless' as the same bods in your local town hall actually. Wage earners, but with the responsibility of managing, and quite successfully, a bureaucracy overseeing a population of a half a billion European citizens, 'Faceless' they may be, but useless they certainly are not. You had the option to vote for a politician of your choice in the recent Euro election, the question is....did you?
...and doing so without having to worry about any pesdky details such as how much any of it would cost, or even keeping proper accounts.

The UK contribution to the EU this year alone is over £12 billion. Sadly, the EU accounts are so badly kept and riddled with fraud that they cannot even adequately explain where all the money is spent.

I personally disagree with some of the other gripes in this letter, but those issues pale into insignificance alongside the behemoth of waste known as the EU.
12 billions from a nation that does over 50% of it's trade with the other 26 regions of the EU is to b e blunt bloody ;peanuts.
We spend near that amount on bombs and guns most of which would hardly protect our nation if and I repeat IF we ever got attacked by another country or bloc

It grieves me to say it, on that point alone, that perhaps the Septics have got it right, which nation or bloc would dare invade a country where every third person has a weapon or ten under their bed?.
But the economics of the EU, have been constantly stated to be unaudited, ask yourself would anyone, club, group, organisation right up to a massive monster such as the EU keep going without some degree of fiscal control.

I am sick of the allegation that there is massive corruption extant in the workings of Brussels and Strasbourg, unless you have solid and verifiable evidence I suggest it should be presented to validate your argument.

These constant snipes about corruption etc fall under the same sort of regimen as snide remarks about the Royals, made in the full knowledge they are not expected to maker any response.

I have made some enquiry about this sort of accusation re lack of audit and corruption, and the best that came back to me was can one seriously believe there is no control, because if that is what is believed, then it is obvious there is a serious lack of communication by OUR government and legislature towards the people of the UK..
[quote][p][bold]-trigg-[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]varteg1[/bold] wrote: You were doing fine until you started on the EU bit. Talk of faceless career politcians is wrong, they are ELECTED. If you want to angst, and rant, try 'faceless' BUREAUCRATS in Brussels, just as 'faceless' as the same bods in your local town hall actually. Wage earners, but with the responsibility of managing, and quite successfully, a bureaucracy overseeing a population of a half a billion European citizens, 'Faceless' they may be, but useless they certainly are not. You had the option to vote for a politician of your choice in the recent Euro election, the question is....did you?[/p][/quote]...and doing so without having to worry about any pesdky details such as how much any of it would cost, or even keeping proper accounts. The UK contribution to the EU this year alone is over £12 billion. Sadly, the EU accounts are so badly kept and riddled with fraud that they cannot even adequately explain where all the money is spent. I personally disagree with some of the other gripes in this letter, but those issues pale into insignificance alongside the behemoth of waste known as the EU.[/p][/quote]12 billions from a nation that does over 50% of it's trade with the other 26 regions of the EU is to b e blunt bloody ;peanuts. We spend near that amount on bombs and guns most of which would hardly protect our nation if and I repeat IF we ever got attacked by another country or bloc It grieves me to say it, on that point alone, that perhaps the Septics have got it right, which nation or bloc would dare invade a country where every third person has a weapon or ten under their bed?. But the economics of the EU, have been constantly stated to be unaudited, ask yourself would anyone, club, group, organisation right up to a massive monster such as the EU keep going without some degree of fiscal control. I am sick of the allegation that there is massive corruption extant in the workings of Brussels and Strasbourg, unless you have solid and verifiable evidence I suggest it should be presented to validate your argument. These constant snipes about corruption etc fall under the same sort of regimen as snide remarks about the Royals, made in the full knowledge they are not expected to maker any response. I have made some enquiry about this sort of accusation re lack of audit and corruption, and the best that came back to me was can one seriously believe there is no control, because if that is what is believed, then it is obvious there is a serious lack of communication by OUR government and legislature towards the people of the UK.. varteg1
  • Score: -2

5:28pm Mon 2 Jun 14

varteg1 says...

Also, without the CAP, which doles out massive agricultural subsidy across the board, our farming industry would almost instantly collapse.

We are able to provide for about one third of our staple requirements, much of the rest comes in from our EU partners, please tell me how you would replace that element from the rest of the world where money is king, and larger economies such as China and India could out bid us in the foodstuffs market places.
One of the main reasons we joined the CM was because we could not provender our peoples food needs from the rest of the world except at prices that would have bankrupted us in the first year. It was only Marshal Aid that kept the imports coming in after we were almost sunk by the cost of the WW2

I think your simplistic take on our relationship with our partners demonstrates a serious lack of perspicacity regarding our world status these days.
Also, without the CAP, which doles out massive agricultural subsidy across the board, our farming industry would almost instantly collapse. We are able to provide for about one third of our staple requirements, much of the rest comes in from our EU partners, please tell me how you would replace that element from the rest of the world where money is king, and larger economies such as China and India could out bid us in the foodstuffs market places. One of the main reasons we joined the CM was because we could not provender our peoples food needs from the rest of the world except at prices that would have bankrupted us in the first year. It was only Marshal Aid that kept the imports coming in after we were almost sunk by the cost of the WW2 I think your simplistic take on our relationship with our partners demonstrates a serious lack of perspicacity regarding our world status these days. varteg1
  • Score: -2

5:40pm Mon 2 Jun 14

-trigg- says...

The trade we have with the rest of Europe wouldn't suddenly dry up if we left the EU. Companies in those countries will still want to sell their goods and make money and consumers in those countries will likewise still want to purchase from us - you just have to see how little effect being out of the EU has had on Norway as an example.

The CAP is and always has been nothing more than a subsidy to appease French farmers. Yes, UK farmers receive a small amount from this fund, but only as compensation for not producing all that they are capable of - and the CAP payment is far less than could be earnt from the acres left unused.

If we really do need to have a trading partnership, we could always look at joining NAFTA instead. At least they won't try to impose a parliament on us
The trade we have with the rest of Europe wouldn't suddenly dry up if we left the EU. Companies in those countries will still want to sell their goods and make money and consumers in those countries will likewise still want to purchase from us - you just have to see how little effect being out of the EU has had on Norway as an example. The CAP is and always has been nothing more than a subsidy to appease French farmers. Yes, UK farmers receive a small amount from this fund, but only as compensation for not producing all that they are capable of - and the CAP payment is far less than could be earnt from the acres left unused. If we really do need to have a trading partnership, we could always look at joining NAFTA instead. At least they won't try to impose a parliament on us -trigg-
  • Score: -8

6:06pm Mon 2 Jun 14

DraigDun says...

Putting aside your EU ignorance and predictably pessimistic but generally uninformed outlook, I think you've overlooked the MAIN issues that have rendered the British public so apathetic towards democratic participation. Namely: how many more tracks can I fit on my ipod, why did win the X-factor, and where's the cheapest place I can buy ?
Putting aside your EU ignorance and predictably pessimistic but generally uninformed outlook, I think you've overlooked the MAIN issues that have rendered the British public so apathetic towards democratic participation. Namely: how many more tracks can I fit on my ipod, why did [name of person/group] win the X-factor, and where's the cheapest place I can buy [PS3/X-box game title]? DraigDun
  • Score: 6

6:07pm Mon 2 Jun 14

welshmen says...

You say:
I am sick of the allegation that there is massive corruption extant in the workings of Brussels and Strasbourg, unless you have solid and verifiable evidence I suggest it should be presented to validate your argument.


I say:
Are you for real, tell us when were the last audited accounts completed and signed off by your European Union....
You say: I am sick of the allegation that there is massive corruption extant in the workings of Brussels and Strasbourg, unless you have solid and verifiable evidence I suggest it should be presented to validate your argument. I say: Are you for real, tell us when were the last audited accounts completed and signed off by your European Union.... welshmen
  • Score: -4

6:38pm Mon 2 Jun 14

DraigDun says...

welshmen wrote:
You say:
I am sick of the allegation that there is massive corruption extant in the workings of Brussels and Strasbourg, unless you have solid and verifiable evidence I suggest it should be presented to validate your argument.


I say:
Are you for real, tell us when were the last audited accounts completed and signed off by your European Union....
Not audited does not mean filled with rampant corruption.
Sure, there are plenty of significant overpayments to local beneficiaries (people like you and me, not some greedy bureaucrats), but the main reason the Court of Auditors won't sign off the EU budget is because the EU has very strict standards for things like expenditure.

80% of EU funds are placed entirely within the hands of member states (Cameron's government, local councils etc). If those funds are abused then it is the member state's fault.
And yes, a minority of MEPs have been known to take advantage of the expenses system (e.g. Farage, Kilroy-Silk), but nowhere near the scale of abuse committed in Westminster.
[quote][p][bold]welshmen[/bold] wrote: You say: I am sick of the allegation that there is massive corruption extant in the workings of Brussels and Strasbourg, unless you have solid and verifiable evidence I suggest it should be presented to validate your argument. I say: Are you for real, tell us when were the last audited accounts completed and signed off by your European Union....[/p][/quote]Not audited does not mean filled with rampant corruption. Sure, there are plenty of significant overpayments to local beneficiaries (people like you and me, not some greedy bureaucrats), but the main reason the Court of Auditors won't sign off the EU budget is because the EU has very strict standards for things like expenditure. 80% of EU funds are placed entirely within the hands of member states (Cameron's government, local councils etc). If those funds are abused then it is the member state's fault. And yes, a minority of MEPs have been known to take advantage of the expenses system (e.g. Farage, Kilroy-Silk), but nowhere near the scale of abuse committed in Westminster. DraigDun
  • Score: 3

6:59pm Mon 2 Jun 14

Mervyn James says...

"And yes, a minority of MEPs have been known to take advantage of the expenses system (e.g. Farage, Kilroy-Silk), but nowhere near the scale of abuse committed in Westminster."

You forgot the Kinnocks who started the whole freeloading approach. Both are now millionaires.
"And yes, a minority of MEPs have been known to take advantage of the expenses system (e.g. Farage, Kilroy-Silk), but nowhere near the scale of abuse committed in Westminster." You forgot the Kinnocks who started the whole freeloading approach. Both are now millionaires. Mervyn James
  • Score: 3

10:40am Tue 3 Jun 14

varteg1 says...

welshmen wrote:
You say:
I am sick of the allegation that there is massive corruption extant in the workings of Brussels and Strasbourg, unless you have solid and verifiable evidence I suggest it should be presented to validate your argument.


I say:
Are you for real, tell us when were the last audited accounts completed and signed off by your European Union....
That does not mean either accounting is not done, nor that it is an indication of corruption....except in your warped view of course.

I am afraid your antipathy is obviously very evident in your every message.
[quote][p][bold]welshmen[/bold] wrote: You say: I am sick of the allegation that there is massive corruption extant in the workings of Brussels and Strasbourg, unless you have solid and verifiable evidence I suggest it should be presented to validate your argument. I say: Are you for real, tell us when were the last audited accounts completed and signed off by your European Union....[/p][/quote]That does not mean either accounting is not done, nor that it is an indication of corruption....except in your warped view of course. I am afraid your antipathy is obviously very evident in your every message. varteg1
  • Score: -1

11:08am Tue 3 Jun 14

varteg1 says...

-trigg- wrote:
The trade we have with the rest of Europe wouldn't suddenly dry up if we left the EU. Companies in those countries will still want to sell their goods and make money and consumers in those countries will likewise still want to purchase from us - you just have to see how little effect being out of the EU has had on Norway as an example.

The CAP is and always has been nothing more than a subsidy to appease French farmers. Yes, UK farmers receive a small amount from this fund, but only as compensation for not producing all that they are capable of - and the CAP payment is far less than could be earnt from the acres left unused.

If we really do need to have a trading partnership, we could always look at joining NAFTA instead. At least they won't try to impose a parliament on us
I think you know little of how the CAP works, to the benefit of us all.

Have you noticed the amount of new glossy and very very expensaive farm machinery around the countryside these days,

With a large tractor costing a hundred grand or more, and all the rest, m any farmers these fays would be extremely hard put to find the cash to buy such equipment. Certainly banks would not be forthcoming unless there was sufficient collateral to ensure they would be repaid for any and all loans..,

That is where the CAP comes in. Most farms to day run entirely on subsidy.

That is why most small farms are in despair, their operations are too insignificant to attract such subsidy, they cannot compete, and what small amounts of subsidy they get via our own state is barely enough to .feed themselves, and their stock, or provide overwinter fodder, seeds fertiliers, and pay rents etc. Machinery maintenance is way down the list as well.

That crack about French farmers doesa you no credit, as you would soon discover if you actually went to france and got to know a few of them,...as I have done.

We regularly stay with French farming friends and the subject is often
discussed. Again I am afraid you talk sound bites straight from the anti EU brigade bull s*it leaflets.
Not for not producing what they are capable of, but to stop overproduction of goods that in effect create stockpiles or 'mountains' of unsalable produce.
Without those subsidies, vast tracts of UK land would be left fallow, the farmers are required to husband the land hence the compensatory subsidies. Try looking at it positively for a change, instead of negatively.
As for trade drying up...maybe it will not, but once the UK pulls out, I can guarantee you much of the money will also pull out., leaving gaps to be filled which is hardly likely to happen when the rest of the world looks at us as traitors to our agreements.
The bulk of our trade in finance is through London. Do you really believe that will be allowed to carry on without some direct backlash action from Paris, Frankfurt and the rest of the world's bourses? Europe can out produce us at a stroke and will do so, should the likes of Toyota, Nissan and many others decamp, as they have hinted to so do should we leave the EU.
Many of the other major employers with exotic boardrooms, have already at least hinted they will withdraw into Europe should we exit the EU.
[quote][p][bold]-trigg-[/bold] wrote: The trade we have with the rest of Europe wouldn't suddenly dry up if we left the EU. Companies in those countries will still want to sell their goods and make money and consumers in those countries will likewise still want to purchase from us - you just have to see how little effect being out of the EU has had on Norway as an example. The CAP is and always has been nothing more than a subsidy to appease French farmers. Yes, UK farmers receive a small amount from this fund, but only as compensation for not producing all that they are capable of - and the CAP payment is far less than could be earnt from the acres left unused. If we really do need to have a trading partnership, we could always look at joining NAFTA instead. At least they won't try to impose a parliament on us[/p][/quote]I think you know little of how the CAP works, to the benefit of us all. Have you noticed the amount of new glossy and very very expensaive farm machinery around the countryside these days, With a large tractor costing a hundred grand or more, and all the rest, m any farmers these fays would be extremely hard put to find the cash to buy such equipment. Certainly banks would not be forthcoming unless there was sufficient collateral to ensure they would be repaid for any and all loans.., That is where the CAP comes in. Most farms to day run entirely on subsidy. That is why most small farms are in despair, their operations are too insignificant to attract such subsidy, they cannot compete, and what small amounts of subsidy they get via our own state is barely enough to .feed themselves, and their stock, or provide overwinter fodder, seeds fertiliers, and pay rents etc. Machinery maintenance is way down the list as well. That crack about French farmers doesa you no credit, as you would soon discover if you actually went to france and got to know a few of them,...as I have done. We regularly stay with French farming friends and the subject is often discussed. Again I am afraid you talk sound bites straight from the anti EU brigade bull s*it leaflets. Not for not producing what they are capable of, but to stop overproduction of goods that in effect create stockpiles or 'mountains' of unsalable produce. Without those subsidies, vast tracts of UK land would be left fallow, the farmers are required to husband the land hence the compensatory subsidies. Try looking at it positively for a change, instead of negatively. As for trade drying up...maybe it will not, but once the UK pulls out, I can guarantee you much of the money will also pull out., leaving gaps to be filled which is hardly likely to happen when the rest of the world looks at us as traitors to our agreements. The bulk of our trade in finance is through London. Do you really believe that will be allowed to carry on without some direct backlash action from Paris, Frankfurt and the rest of the world's bourses? Europe can out produce us at a stroke and will do so, should the likes of Toyota, Nissan and many others decamp, as they have hinted to so do should we leave the EU. Many of the other major employers with exotic boardrooms, have already at least hinted they will withdraw into Europe should we exit the EU. varteg1
  • Score: 1

11:11am Tue 3 Jun 14

varteg1 says...

Mervyn James wrote:
"And yes, a minority of MEPs have been known to take advantage of the expenses system (e.g. Farage, Kilroy-Silk), but nowhere near the scale of abuse committed in Westminster."

You forgot the Kinnocks who started the whole freeloading approach. Both are now millionaires.
And a whole host of money manipulators in the City are now BILLIONAIRES.

The Kinnocks are relative small fry by comparison.
[quote][p][bold]Mervyn James[/bold] wrote: "And yes, a minority of MEPs have been known to take advantage of the expenses system (e.g. Farage, Kilroy-Silk), but nowhere near the scale of abuse committed in Westminster." You forgot the Kinnocks who started the whole freeloading approach. Both are now millionaires.[/p][/quote]And a whole host of money manipulators in the City are now BILLIONAIRES. The Kinnocks are relative small fry by comparison. varteg1
  • Score: 2

2:34pm Tue 3 Jun 14

landyman3030 says...

it's been well documented that UK farmers get EU subsidies to the tune of £250,000,000 per annum. That's an awful lot to take out of the industry without having a help package from the UK Government in place for years to allow farmers to readjust financially.
Small farmers see very little of this which is why they are leaving the industry or diversifying to second jobs.
Surely you can remember the butter mountain or sugar mountain or whatever food based product mountain there was in the eighties.
Would we be turning back the clock in our current economic situation?
it's been well documented that UK farmers get EU subsidies to the tune of £250,000,000 per annum. That's an awful lot to take out of the industry without having a help package from the UK Government in place for years to allow farmers to readjust financially. Small farmers see very little of this which is why they are leaving the industry or diversifying to second jobs. Surely you can remember the butter mountain or sugar mountain or whatever food based product mountain there was in the eighties. Would we be turning back the clock in our current economic situation? landyman3030
  • Score: -5

10:09pm Tue 3 Jun 14

Bobevans says...

DraigDun wrote:
welshmen wrote:
You say:
I am sick of the allegation that there is massive corruption extant in the workings of Brussels and Strasbourg, unless you have solid and verifiable evidence I suggest it should be presented to validate your argument.


I say:
Are you for real, tell us when were the last audited accounts completed and signed off by your European Union....
Not audited does not mean filled with rampant corruption.
Sure, there are plenty of significant overpayments to local beneficiaries (people like you and me, not some greedy bureaucrats), but the main reason the Court of Auditors won't sign off the EU budget is because the EU has very strict standards for things like expenditure.

80% of EU funds are placed entirely within the hands of member states (Cameron's government, local councils etc). If those funds are abused then it is the member state's fault.
And yes, a minority of MEPs have been known to take advantage of the expenses system (e.g. Farage, Kilroy-Silk), but nowhere near the scale of abuse committed in Westminster.
MEP's in general do not get expenses so would be impossible to fiddle them
[quote][p][bold]DraigDun[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]welshmen[/bold] wrote: You say: I am sick of the allegation that there is massive corruption extant in the workings of Brussels and Strasbourg, unless you have solid and verifiable evidence I suggest it should be presented to validate your argument. I say: Are you for real, tell us when were the last audited accounts completed and signed off by your European Union....[/p][/quote]Not audited does not mean filled with rampant corruption. Sure, there are plenty of significant overpayments to local beneficiaries (people like you and me, not some greedy bureaucrats), but the main reason the Court of Auditors won't sign off the EU budget is because the EU has very strict standards for things like expenditure. 80% of EU funds are placed entirely within the hands of member states (Cameron's government, local councils etc). If those funds are abused then it is the member state's fault. And yes, a minority of MEPs have been known to take advantage of the expenses system (e.g. Farage, Kilroy-Silk), but nowhere near the scale of abuse committed in Westminster.[/p][/quote]MEP's in general do not get expenses so would be impossible to fiddle them Bobevans
  • Score: -6

7:29am Wed 4 Jun 14

BobEvams2014 says...

Bobevans wrote:
DraigDun wrote:
welshmen wrote: You say: I am sick of the allegation that there is massive corruption extant in the workings of Brussels and Strasbourg, unless you have solid and verifiable evidence I suggest it should be presented to validate your argument. I say: Are you for real, tell us when were the last audited accounts completed and signed off by your European Union....
Not audited does not mean filled with rampant corruption. Sure, there are plenty of significant overpayments to local beneficiaries (people like you and me, not some greedy bureaucrats), but the main reason the Court of Auditors won't sign off the EU budget is because the EU has very strict standards for things like expenditure. 80% of EU funds are placed entirely within the hands of member states (Cameron's government, local councils etc). If those funds are abused then it is the member state's fault. And yes, a minority of MEPs have been known to take advantage of the expenses system (e.g. Farage, Kilroy-Silk), but nowhere near the scale of abuse committed in Westminster.
MEP's in general do not get expenses so would be impossible to fiddle them
Thats right - they get allowances instead which they fiddle
[quote][p][bold]Bobevans[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DraigDun[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]welshmen[/bold] wrote: You say: I am sick of the allegation that there is massive corruption extant in the workings of Brussels and Strasbourg, unless you have solid and verifiable evidence I suggest it should be presented to validate your argument. I say: Are you for real, tell us when were the last audited accounts completed and signed off by your European Union....[/p][/quote]Not audited does not mean filled with rampant corruption. Sure, there are plenty of significant overpayments to local beneficiaries (people like you and me, not some greedy bureaucrats), but the main reason the Court of Auditors won't sign off the EU budget is because the EU has very strict standards for things like expenditure. 80% of EU funds are placed entirely within the hands of member states (Cameron's government, local councils etc). If those funds are abused then it is the member state's fault. And yes, a minority of MEPs have been known to take advantage of the expenses system (e.g. Farage, Kilroy-Silk), but nowhere near the scale of abuse committed in Westminster.[/p][/quote]MEP's in general do not get expenses so would be impossible to fiddle them[/p][/quote]Thats right - they get allowances instead which they fiddle BobEvams2014
  • Score: 5

2:29pm Wed 4 Jun 14

welshmen says...

varteg1 wrote:
welshmen wrote:
You say:
I am sick of the allegation that there is massive corruption extant in the workings of Brussels and Strasbourg, unless you have solid and verifiable evidence I suggest it should be presented to validate your argument.


I say:
Are you for real, tell us when were the last audited accounts completed and signed off by your European Union....
That does not mean either accounting is not done, nor that it is an indication of corruption....except in your warped view of course.

I am afraid your antipathy is obviously very evident in your every message.
And your Mr perfect NOT, i have, and many more have their point of view, if you don't like it that's your problem, if i remember correctly you don't vote, I'll wait for your answer on that for now.....
[quote][p][bold]varteg1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]welshmen[/bold] wrote: You say: I am sick of the allegation that there is massive corruption extant in the workings of Brussels and Strasbourg, unless you have solid and verifiable evidence I suggest it should be presented to validate your argument. I say: Are you for real, tell us when were the last audited accounts completed and signed off by your European Union....[/p][/quote]That does not mean either accounting is not done, nor that it is an indication of corruption....except in your warped view of course. I am afraid your antipathy is obviously very evident in your every message.[/p][/quote]And your Mr perfect NOT, i have, and many more have their point of view, if you don't like it that's your problem, if i remember correctly you don't vote, I'll wait for your answer on that for now..... welshmen
  • Score: -6

10:05pm Wed 4 Jun 14

varteg1 says...

welshmen wrote:
varteg1 wrote:
welshmen wrote:
You say:
I am sick of the allegation that there is massive corruption extant in the workings of Brussels and Strasbourg, unless you have solid and verifiable evidence I suggest it should be presented to validate your argument.


I say:
Are you for real, tell us when were the last audited accounts completed and signed off by your European Union....
That does not mean either accounting is not done, nor that it is an indication of corruption....except in your warped view of course.

I am afraid your antipathy is obviously very evident in your every message.
And your Mr perfect NOT, i have, and many more have their point of view, if you don't like it that's your problem, if i remember correctly you don't vote, I'll wait for your answer on that for now.....
Wrong smarty pants. I never fail to vote.

You do have the right to comment, but to then criticise another for offering an adverse view smacks of hypocrisy.

But with your logic I guess you will fail to see the irony.
[quote][p][bold]welshmen[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]varteg1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]welshmen[/bold] wrote: You say: I am sick of the allegation that there is massive corruption extant in the workings of Brussels and Strasbourg, unless you have solid and verifiable evidence I suggest it should be presented to validate your argument. I say: Are you for real, tell us when were the last audited accounts completed and signed off by your European Union....[/p][/quote]That does not mean either accounting is not done, nor that it is an indication of corruption....except in your warped view of course. I am afraid your antipathy is obviously very evident in your every message.[/p][/quote]And your Mr perfect NOT, i have, and many more have their point of view, if you don't like it that's your problem, if i remember correctly you don't vote, I'll wait for your answer on that for now.....[/p][/quote]Wrong smarty pants. I never fail to vote. You do have the right to comment, but to then criticise another for offering an adverse view smacks of hypocrisy. But with your logic I guess you will fail to see the irony. varteg1
  • Score: 0

10:14pm Wed 4 Jun 14

varteg1 says...

BobEvams2014 wrote:
Bobevans wrote:
DraigDun wrote:
welshmen wrote: You say: I am sick of the allegation that there is massive corruption extant in the workings of Brussels and Strasbourg, unless you have solid and verifiable evidence I suggest it should be presented to validate your argument. I say: Are you for real, tell us when were the last audited accounts completed and signed off by your European Union....
Not audited does not mean filled with rampant corruption. Sure, there are plenty of significant overpayments to local beneficiaries (people like you and me, not some greedy bureaucrats), but the main reason the Court of Auditors won't sign off the EU budget is because the EU has very strict standards for things like expenditure. 80% of EU funds are placed entirely within the hands of member states (Cameron's government, local councils etc). If those funds are abused then it is the member state's fault. And yes, a minority of MEPs have been known to take advantage of the expenses system (e.g. Farage, Kilroy-Silk), but nowhere near the scale of abuse committed in Westminster.
MEP's in general do not get expenses so would be impossible to fiddle them
Thats right - they get allowances instead which they fiddle
An allowance is an ex gratia and usually fixed payment calculated to cover the necessary expenditure of a person in doing his job. They are made up front, or determined they will be paid without resorting to claim.

Expenses are claimed for out of pocket payments made on a basis of recovery after spending. Easy to fiddle in many cases. Just present the receipt, and bingo!, you're in the money.

Allowances are pre- fixed and therefore cannot be fiddled. Receipts do not come into it.
[quote][p][bold]BobEvams2014[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Bobevans[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DraigDun[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]welshmen[/bold] wrote: You say: I am sick of the allegation that there is massive corruption extant in the workings of Brussels and Strasbourg, unless you have solid and verifiable evidence I suggest it should be presented to validate your argument. I say: Are you for real, tell us when were the last audited accounts completed and signed off by your European Union....[/p][/quote]Not audited does not mean filled with rampant corruption. Sure, there are plenty of significant overpayments to local beneficiaries (people like you and me, not some greedy bureaucrats), but the main reason the Court of Auditors won't sign off the EU budget is because the EU has very strict standards for things like expenditure. 80% of EU funds are placed entirely within the hands of member states (Cameron's government, local councils etc). If those funds are abused then it is the member state's fault. And yes, a minority of MEPs have been known to take advantage of the expenses system (e.g. Farage, Kilroy-Silk), but nowhere near the scale of abuse committed in Westminster.[/p][/quote]MEP's in general do not get expenses so would be impossible to fiddle them[/p][/quote]Thats right - they get allowances instead which they fiddle[/p][/quote]An allowance is an ex gratia and usually fixed payment calculated to cover the necessary expenditure of a person in doing his job. They are made up front, or determined they will be paid without resorting to claim. Expenses are claimed for out of pocket payments made on a basis of recovery after spending. Easy to fiddle in many cases. Just present the receipt, and bingo!, you're in the money. Allowances are pre- fixed and therefore cannot be fiddled. Receipts do not come into it. varteg1
  • Score: 3

9:17am Thu 5 Jun 14

Mervyn James says...

varteg1 wrote:
Mervyn James wrote:
"And yes, a minority of MEPs have been known to take advantage of the expenses system (e.g. Farage, Kilroy-Silk), but nowhere near the scale of abuse committed in Westminster."

You forgot the Kinnocks who started the whole freeloading approach. Both are now millionaires.
And a whole host of money manipulators in the City are now BILLIONAIRES.

The Kinnocks are relative small fry by comparison.
I'm not greedy either, a few million will do me...
[quote][p][bold]varteg1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Mervyn James[/bold] wrote: "And yes, a minority of MEPs have been known to take advantage of the expenses system (e.g. Farage, Kilroy-Silk), but nowhere near the scale of abuse committed in Westminster." You forgot the Kinnocks who started the whole freeloading approach. Both are now millionaires.[/p][/quote]And a whole host of money manipulators in the City are now BILLIONAIRES. The Kinnocks are relative small fry by comparison.[/p][/quote]I'm not greedy either, a few million will do me... Mervyn James
  • Score: 1

6:57pm Mon 16 Jun 14

taffymark says...

This varteg1 seems to know everything about everything except the Grammar to explain it!
This varteg1 seems to know everything about everything except the Grammar to explain it! taffymark
  • Score: 0

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