Don’t teach RE

I HAVE seen the news on TV relating to problems in Birmingham schools. For example, trips to Mecca for Muslim pupils and Christian pupils having to stop at school.

Music not being allowed in certain schools because Islamic governors don’t believe in it. Girls being discriminated against.

Firstly, I must add that I am in no way prejudiced as far as colour or religion is concerned.

I have no religious beliefs at all and couldn’t care less who believes in what, but in my opinion, religion is the cause of all the wars and violence in the world today and, no matter how far you go back through history, it always was.

In my opinion, the solution is to stop teaching Religious Education in schools and leave that up to the parents and the children.

With so many different religions in schools today, this would solve the problem.

W A Moore Pottery Road Newport

Comments (71)

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12:24pm Fri 13 Jun 14

mkaibear1 says...

>in my opinion, religion is the cause of all the wars and violence in the world today and, no matter how far you go back through history, it always was.

It's a shame your opinion is factually incorrect. If you read Philip and Axelrod’s three-volume Encyclopedia of Wars (a seminal text) there are 1,763 wars that have been waged over the course of human history. Of those wars, the authors categorize 123 as being religious in nature, an astonishingly low 6.98%.
>in my opinion, religion is the cause of all the wars and violence in the world today and, no matter how far you go back through history, it always was. It's a shame your opinion is factually incorrect. If you read Philip and Axelrod’s three-volume Encyclopedia of Wars (a seminal text) there are 1,763 wars that have been waged over the course of human history. Of those wars, the authors categorize 123 as being religious in nature, an astonishingly low 6.98%. mkaibear1
  • Score: 1

10:17am Sat 14 Jun 14

welshmen says...

Now is what's happening, killing fellow Muslims in the name of their loving God, this Religion at it's worst, killing for the sake of killing, the Black Flag of Muslim Jihad fly's through out the Middle East, the same one the Radicals fly here in our Capital City London, this so called Religion just hates, it hates every one that is not of it's faith, their holy book tells them kill all non believers and this is what they do at an alarming rate, never mind how many war's were Religiously led it's happening now, thousands getting butchered in the name of Allha, a wast of life, let's hope this useless stupid not fit for purpose Government do not send British Forces ever again to a Muslim Country, let the Muslims settle their dispute's between the Shiite and Sunni tribes, they have been at it since their loving God died....
Now is what's happening, killing fellow Muslims in the name of their loving God, this Religion at it's worst, killing for the sake of killing, the Black Flag of Muslim Jihad fly's through out the Middle East, the same one the Radicals fly here in our Capital City London, this so called Religion just hates, it hates every one that is not of it's faith, their holy book tells them kill all non believers and this is what they do at an alarming rate, never mind how many war's were Religiously led it's happening now, thousands getting butchered in the name of Allha, a wast of life, let's hope this useless stupid not fit for purpose Government do not send British Forces ever again to a Muslim Country, let the Muslims settle their dispute's between the Shiite and Sunni tribes, they have been at it since their loving God died.... welshmen
  • Score: 7

11:41am Sat 14 Jun 14

Separry says...

What an absolutely ridiculous comment! Knowledge gives power. Extreemists act in the name of religion but if you took the time to study different religions most do not believe in war. In the UK, we bend to everyone in an attempt to be seen as inclusive and in effect are to blame for extremist action. If you choose to live in another country you should respect their culture and beliefs and accept that although your beliefs are important, they cannot be catered for above the new country's culture. Perhaps if our politicans accepted this is Great Britain first and foremost and celebrated our culture more, we would not be in this state. The majority of our multi-cultural citizens are happy to live with UK culture whilst keeping there own. They do not ask for us to say Happy holidays or insist on stores selling purely Halal meats. That is what our politicians insist we should do.
What an absolutely ridiculous comment! Knowledge gives power. Extreemists act in the name of religion but if you took the time to study different religions most do not believe in war. In the UK, we bend to everyone in an attempt to be seen as inclusive and in effect are to blame for extremist action. If you choose to live in another country you should respect their culture and beliefs and accept that although your beliefs are important, they cannot be catered for above the new country's culture. Perhaps if our politicans accepted this is Great Britain first and foremost and celebrated our culture more, we would not be in this state. The majority of our multi-cultural citizens are happy to live with UK culture whilst keeping there own. They do not ask for us to say Happy holidays or insist on stores selling purely Halal meats. That is what our politicians insist we should do. Separry
  • Score: 7

1:26pm Sat 14 Jun 14

varteg1 says...

mkaibear1 wrote:
>in my opinion, religion is the cause of all the wars and violence in the world today and, no matter how far you go back through history, it always was.

It's a shame your opinion is factually incorrect. If you read Philip and Axelrod’s three-volume Encyclopedia of Wars (a seminal text) there are 1,763 wars that have been waged over the course of human history. Of those wars, the authors categorize 123 as being religious in nature, an astonishingly low 6.98%.
I am sure your reference is correct when defining a war by sticking rigidly to certain parameters, however, many of the 93% of the wars that according to you do not fall under such strict guidelines have a degree of religion in their background data.
For example, WW 1 and WW 2, basically about the capitalism that caused them but had not there been a difference of religious opinion coupled to the wealth gap and elitist demands of the ruling classes, all of which were promoted and extended by the church, WW 1 may never have come about. Plus there was a discord in the Balkan regions between Christianity, Balkan version of the Orthodox Church, and Islamic elements. All of which exacerbated the fractious nature of what took place thereafter the assassination.

Then after a tea break, which gave rise to a new Germany, with the Nazi party in the lead, whose antipathy to Jews this led to the anger of the Allies, which, had not the attacks on Jews took place, with the subsequent round up, containment in camps and a 'final' solution' whereby millions of Jew were exterminated the Allied nations of what we now term the 'West' could probably come to amicable terms with Nazi Germany Again it was religion that made the soup thicker.

Take a further in depth look at all those wars you say were not religious, you can be sure, due to religious friction or general influences both overt and covert, had religion not been involved in some way, to a greater or lesser extent, many, if not most of those conflicts would not have taken place.
[quote][p][bold]mkaibear1[/bold] wrote: >in my opinion, religion is the cause of all the wars and violence in the world today and, no matter how far you go back through history, it always was. It's a shame your opinion is factually incorrect. If you read Philip and Axelrod’s three-volume Encyclopedia of Wars (a seminal text) there are 1,763 wars that have been waged over the course of human history. Of those wars, the authors categorize 123 as being religious in nature, an astonishingly low 6.98%.[/p][/quote]I am sure your reference is correct when defining a war by sticking rigidly to certain parameters, however, many of the 93% of the wars that according to you do not fall under such strict guidelines have a degree of religion in their background data. For example, WW 1 and WW 2, basically about the capitalism that caused them but had not there been a difference of religious opinion coupled to the wealth gap and elitist demands of the ruling classes, all of which were promoted and extended by the church, WW 1 may never have come about. Plus there was a discord in the Balkan regions between Christianity, Balkan version of the Orthodox Church, and Islamic elements. All of which exacerbated the fractious nature of what took place thereafter the assassination. Then after a tea break, which gave rise to a new Germany, with the Nazi party in the lead, whose antipathy to Jews this led to the anger of the Allies, which, had not the attacks on Jews took place, with the subsequent round up, containment in camps and a 'final' solution' whereby millions of Jew were exterminated the Allied nations of what we now term the 'West' could probably come to amicable terms with Nazi Germany Again it was religion that made the soup thicker. Take a further in depth look at all those wars you say were not religious, you can be sure, due to religious friction or general influences both overt and covert, had religion not been involved in some way, to a greater or lesser extent, many, if not most of those conflicts would not have taken place. varteg1
  • Score: 7

2:32pm Sat 14 Jun 14

mkaibear1 says...

So you go there from "a degree of religion", via the Nazis (who were entirely unconcerned with Religion) to a conclusion that without religion many if not most of the conflicts would not take place.

There's no logic in your answer. It's just an anti-religious polemic.
So you go there from "a degree of religion", via the Nazis (who were entirely unconcerned with Religion) to a conclusion that without religion many if not most of the conflicts would not take place. There's no logic in your answer. It's just an anti-religious polemic. mkaibear1
  • Score: -2

7:36pm Sat 14 Jun 14

varteg1 says...

mkaibear1 wrote:
So you go there from "a degree of religion", via the Nazis (who were entirely unconcerned with Religion) to a conclusion that without religion many if not most of the conflicts would not take place.

There's no logic in your answer. It's just an anti-religious polemic.
Try that on the Jews.

Religion is at base a fractious and contentious matter, one that has to a lesser or greater degree, had a hand in virtually ball wars form the desert dispute in pre biblical times, right up to the modern day.

How you can make such a statement that the Nazis were unconcerned about religion is a mystery, considering it was their avowed intent to eradicate every Jew and Judaism for the globe starting with those living in Europe. As dogma it totally smacks of a pogrom of classic proportions, and follows on the somewhat lesser pogroms over the centuries.

I accept that it was an act of political deliberation, but had they picked on Blacks or yellows for example I would agree there would have been no 'religious' content to their plans, that they picked on people of one religion, ( probably others, Mormons, Latter day saints as well I believe, but not as aggressively ) made their option everything about religion.

As I commenced,..........
. try telling that to the Jews.
[quote][p][bold]mkaibear1[/bold] wrote: So you go there from "a degree of religion", via the Nazis (who were entirely unconcerned with Religion) to a conclusion that without religion many if not most of the conflicts would not take place. There's no logic in your answer. It's just an anti-religious polemic.[/p][/quote]Try that on the Jews. Religion is at base a fractious and contentious matter, one that has to a lesser or greater degree, had a hand in virtually ball wars form the desert dispute in pre biblical times, right up to the modern day. How you can make such a statement that the Nazis were unconcerned about religion is a mystery, considering it was their avowed intent to eradicate every Jew and Judaism for the globe starting with those living in Europe. As dogma it totally smacks of a pogrom of classic proportions, and follows on the somewhat lesser pogroms over the centuries. I accept that it was an act of political deliberation, but had they picked on Blacks or yellows for example I would agree there would have been no 'religious' content to their plans, that they picked on people of one religion, ( probably others, Mormons, Latter day saints as well I believe, but not as aggressively ) made their option everything about religion. As I commenced,.......... . try telling that to the Jews. varteg1
  • Score: 3

7:47pm Sat 14 Jun 14

mkaibear1 says...

You're taking a single instance and extending it to "many if not most" instances by inference. That's where your logic utterly falls down.

And the Nazis didn't just have a pogrom against the Jews, it was against the Roma and homosexuals as well (amongst others). Claiming the Nazi atrocities were motivated by religion is specious at best. Given that, even your single instance that you are inferring everything else from is wrong.

Religion is not a motivator in most wars. People claim it is but when you actually look at history you find that wars are about control, land or resources. Religion is sometimes a contributory factor but it's a lot more rare than you think it is.
You're taking a single instance and extending it to "many if not most" instances by inference. That's where your logic utterly falls down. And the Nazis didn't just have a pogrom against the Jews, it was against the Roma and homosexuals as well (amongst others). Claiming the Nazi atrocities were motivated by religion is specious at best. Given that, even your single instance that you are inferring everything else from is wrong. Religion is not a motivator in most wars. People claim it is but when you actually look at history you find that wars are about control, land or resources. Religion is sometimes a contributory factor but it's a lot more rare than you think it is. mkaibear1
  • Score: -1

10:37am Sun 15 Jun 14

Mervyn James says...

They are justifying sectarian education on the basis it produces better educated children than the state system and this appears true. They use strict religious acceptances to ensure you are at school to learn not play about on mobile phones or fail to take an interest, clearly the strcit approach works.

Obviously this will raise concerns the approaches are sectarian and divisive as well as allowing vested ant-brit interests to utilize our education system to radicalize. Christian faith school don'r radicalize yet are getting the same attacks ? The issue is Islam there are no two ways about it. It is anti-British, anti-equality, homophobic, sectarian,anti-women
, anti-education abroad for them....and they have no leadership to eliminate the radical elements either, with some obscure set up that allows their loony-tune clerics to rule the country not an elected government, this is the UK not the middle east,.
They are justifying sectarian education on the basis it produces better educated children than the state system and this appears true. They use strict religious acceptances to ensure you are at school to learn not play about on mobile phones or fail to take an interest, clearly the strcit approach works. Obviously this will raise concerns the approaches are sectarian and divisive as well as allowing vested ant-brit interests to utilize our education system to radicalize. Christian faith school don'r radicalize yet are getting the same attacks ? The issue is Islam there are no two ways about it. It is anti-British, anti-equality, homophobic, sectarian,anti-women , anti-education abroad for them....and they have no leadership to eliminate the radical elements either, with some obscure set up that allows their loony-tune clerics to rule the country not an elected government, this is the UK not the middle east,. Mervyn James
  • Score: 6

3:45pm Sun 15 Jun 14

Mike Roland says...

welshmen wrote:
Now is what's happening, killing fellow Muslims in the name of their loving God, this Religion at it's worst, killing for the sake of killing, the Black Flag of Muslim Jihad fly's through out the Middle East, the same one the Radicals fly here in our Capital City London, this so called Religion just hates, it hates every one that is not of it's faith, their holy book tells them kill all non believers and this is what they do at an alarming rate, never mind how many war's were Religiously led it's happening now, thousands getting butchered in the name of Allha, a wast of life, let's hope this useless stupid not fit for purpose Government do not send British Forces ever again to a Muslim Country, let the Muslims settle their dispute's between the Shiite and Sunni tribes, they have been at it since their loving God died....
The only one spouting hate here Welshmen is you.
[quote][p][bold]welshmen[/bold] wrote: Now is what's happening, killing fellow Muslims in the name of their loving God, this Religion at it's worst, killing for the sake of killing, the Black Flag of Muslim Jihad fly's through out the Middle East, the same one the Radicals fly here in our Capital City London, this so called Religion just hates, it hates every one that is not of it's faith, their holy book tells them kill all non believers and this is what they do at an alarming rate, never mind how many war's were Religiously led it's happening now, thousands getting butchered in the name of Allha, a wast of life, let's hope this useless stupid not fit for purpose Government do not send British Forces ever again to a Muslim Country, let the Muslims settle their dispute's between the Shiite and Sunni tribes, they have been at it since their loving God died....[/p][/quote]The only one spouting hate here Welshmen is you. Mike Roland
  • Score: 1

8:07pm Sun 15 Jun 14

varteg1 says...

mkaibear1 wrote:
You're taking a single instance and extending it to "many if not most" instances by inference. That's where your logic utterly falls down.

And the Nazis didn't just have a pogrom against the Jews, it was against the Roma and homosexuals as well (amongst others). Claiming the Nazi atrocities were motivated by religion is specious at best. Given that, even your single instance that you are inferring everything else from is wrong.

Religion is not a motivator in most wars. People claim it is but when you actually look at history you find that wars are about control, land or resources. Religion is sometimes a contributory factor but it's a lot more rare than you think it is.
Oh, I must have been mistaken, no Jews met their end in gas chambers, none were disposed of in furnaces, few were hounded from their communities, fewer still had their property expropriated, no art works disappeared for decades, few starved to death in ghettos, did I somehow think that the odd rifle butt met the head of a Jew, old person, youth, child, woman by pure accident, or have I actually been dreaming forn the last few decades?

Then that pesky word 'pogrom;'which you state does not apply yo Jews.....

From Wiki...

Pogrom
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
.
A pogrom is a violent riot aimed at massacre or persecution of an ethnic or religious group, particularly one aimed at Jews.


and from the Oxford dictionary.....

pogrom
ˈpɒgrəm,ˈpɒgrɒ
m/Submit
noun
an organized massacre of a particular ethnic group, in particular that of Jews in Russia or eastern Europe.
"the Nazis began a pogrom against Jewish people in Germany"
synonyms: massacre, slaughter, wholesale slaughter, mass slaughter, mass killing, mass murder, mass homicide, mass execution, night of the long knives, annihilation, extermination, decimation, carnage, bloodbath, bloodletting, butchery, genocide, holocaust, Shoah, ethnic cleansing, megadeath; More
Origin

early 20th century: from Russian, literally ‘devastation’, from gromit ‘destroy by the use of violence’.


Not a Nazi sympathiser by any chance be you?
[quote][p][bold]mkaibear1[/bold] wrote: You're taking a single instance and extending it to "many if not most" instances by inference. That's where your logic utterly falls down. And the Nazis didn't just have a pogrom against the Jews, it was against the Roma and homosexuals as well (amongst others). Claiming the Nazi atrocities were motivated by religion is specious at best. Given that, even your single instance that you are inferring everything else from is wrong. Religion is not a motivator in most wars. People claim it is but when you actually look at history you find that wars are about control, land or resources. Religion is sometimes a contributory factor but it's a lot more rare than you think it is.[/p][/quote]Oh, I must have been mistaken, no Jews met their end in gas chambers, none were disposed of in furnaces, few were hounded from their communities, fewer still had their property expropriated, no art works disappeared for decades, few starved to death in ghettos, did I somehow think that the odd rifle butt met the head of a Jew, old person, youth, child, woman by pure accident, or have I actually been dreaming forn the last few decades? Then that pesky word 'pogrom;'which you state does not apply yo Jews..... From Wiki... Pogrom From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia . A pogrom is a violent riot aimed at massacre or persecution of an ethnic or religious group, particularly one aimed at Jews. and from the Oxford dictionary..... pogrom ˈpɒgrəm,ˈpɒgrɒ m/Submit noun an organized massacre of a particular ethnic group, in particular that of Jews in Russia or eastern Europe. "the Nazis began a pogrom against Jewish people in Germany" synonyms: massacre, slaughter, wholesale slaughter, mass slaughter, mass killing, mass murder, mass homicide, mass execution, night of the long knives, annihilation, extermination, decimation, carnage, bloodbath, bloodletting, butchery, genocide, holocaust, Shoah, ethnic cleansing, megadeath; More Origin early 20th century: from Russian, literally ‘devastation’, from gromit ‘destroy by the use of violence’. Not a Nazi sympathiser by any chance be you? varteg1
  • Score: 2

8:25pm Sun 15 Jun 14

mkaibear1 says...

So I point out that it wasn't just Jews who were killed by the Nazis and you have extended that to claim I've stated that no Jews were killed by the Nazis.

That's a positive triumph of straw-manning right there.

Let's try this again: just because Jews were killed by the Nazis doesn't make it an anti-religious atrocity. The atrocity was against multiple groups on ethnic, homophobic and xenophobic grounds. Claiming it's a religious atrocity is specious at best.
So I point out that it wasn't just Jews who were killed by the Nazis and you have extended that to claim I've stated that no Jews were killed by the Nazis. That's a positive triumph of straw-manning right there. Let's try this again: just because Jews were killed by the Nazis doesn't make it an anti-religious atrocity. The atrocity was against multiple groups on ethnic, homophobic and xenophobic grounds. Claiming it's a religious atrocity is specious at best. mkaibear1
  • Score: 1

8:39pm Sun 15 Jun 14

welshmen says...

Mike Roland wrote:
welshmen wrote:
Now is what's happening, killing fellow Muslims in the name of their loving God, this Religion at it's worst, killing for the sake of killing, the Black Flag of Muslim Jihad fly's through out the Middle East, the same one the Radicals fly here in our Capital City London, this so called Religion just hates, it hates every one that is not of it's faith, their holy book tells them kill all non believers and this is what they do at an alarming rate, never mind how many war's were Religiously led it's happening now, thousands getting butchered in the name of Allha, a wast of life, let's hope this useless stupid not fit for purpose Government do not send British Forces ever again to a Muslim Country, let the Muslims settle their dispute's between the Shiite and Sunni tribes, they have been at it since their loving God died....
The only one spouting hate here Welshmen is you.
Is there any room for the truth in that Liberal Elite brain cell of yours,
Have a look on youtube, see what the Religion of Peace is doing to prisoners of war, you find something I have posted is not the truth,let us all know what lie I have told...

I found this for you to read, see what you make of this?
This is a report by Raymond Ibrahim on 5th May 2014....

According to recent Arabic news media, “a Syrian nun testified to the Vatican news agency that some Christians in Ma‘loula were crucified for refusing to convert to Islam or pay jizya” (tribute subjugated Christians are required to pay to their Islamic conquerors in order to exist as Christians, per Koran 9:29).

Incidentally, they were crucified by the al-Qaeda linked Nasra Front (so much for Daily Mail’s portrayal of al-Qaeda “distancing” itself from the apparently “extra-extremist
ISIL for crucifying its victims).

Sister Raghad, the former head of the Patriarchate School in Damascus who currently resides in France, told Vatican Radio how she personally witnessed jihadi rebels terrorize Ma‘loula, including by pressuring Christians to proclaim the shehada—Islam’s credo that there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is his messenger—which, when uttered before Muslim witnesses transforms the speaker into a Muslim, with the death penalty for apostasy should the convert later “renege” by returning to Christianity.

According to the nun, those Christians who refused to embrace Islam were killed in atrocious and violent ways that cannot be described. If you want examples, they crucified two youths in Ma‘loula for refusing to proclaim Islam’s credo, saying to them: “Perhaps you want to die like your teacher whom you believe in? You have two choices: either proclaim the shehada or else be crucified.” One of them was crucified before his father, whom they also killed.

In fact, according to earlier media reports from October 2013, soon after Ma‘loula fell to the jihadis, one “shaky voiced” elderly Christian man had reported that he heard the invading jihadis shouting, “Convert to Islam, or you will be crucified like Jesus.”

It is, of course, a documented fact that some Christians in Ma‘loula were put to death for refusing to convert to Islam, such as Minas, an Armenian man, while other families succumbed to pressure and converted to Islam.

But it is not clear whether the two crucified Christians mentioned by the nun are among the three men in Ma‘loula who, according to Asia News, “refused to repudiate their religion” and thus “were summarily executed in public”—so many and varied were the barbaric acts, including beheadings, rape, and infanticide during the rebel occupation, not to mention the other massacres in other Christian regions the mainstream media failed to report on.

These three were declared martyrs by the Syrian Greek-Catholic Church, or as Patriarch Gregorios III explained to Pope Francis in a meeting: “Holy Father, they are true martyrs. Ordered to give up their faith, they proudly refused. Three others however gave in and were forced to declare themselves Muslim, but later returned to the faith of their ancestors.”

For his part, and according to a May 3rd Arabic report, Pope Francis recently said, “I wept when I saw reports saying that Christians were being crucified in some non-Christian countries.”

The fact is, crucifixion is a prescribed form of punishment in the Koran (5:33) and occurs throughout the Islamic world with much greater frequency than suggested by the Daily Mail. For example:

Iraq, June 2008: A Canadian parliamentary committee heard about how “militant Muslims” were crucifying Christian children in order to terrorize Christians into fleeing Iraq: “Since the war began in 2003, about 12 children, many as young as 10, have been kidnapped and killed, then nailed to makeshift crosses near their homes to terrify and torment their parents.”
Ivory Coast, May 2011: Two Christian peasant brothers were “brutally crucified” on “the example of Christ” by Muslim forces accusing them of being supportive of the ousted Christian president. One died, while the other survived: “The pair were badly beaten and tortured before being crudely nailed to cross-shaped planks by their hands and feet with steel spikes.”
Egypt, August 2012: Multiple media agencies reported that during one uprisal against Islamist president Muhammad Morsi, Muslim Brotherhood operatives crucified some protesters on trees. Earlier, a Salafi MP in Egypt called for the penal codification of crucifixion.
Yemen, August 2012: A video of a man crucified on the accusation of spying for the U.S. appeared. A sign placed above his head quotes Koran 5:33: “The recompense of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off from opposite sides, or be exiled from the land. That is their disgrace in this world, and a great torment is theirs in the Hereafter.”
Of course, if one delves into Islamic history, one learns that crucifixions were extremely common. For example, Witnesses For Christ: Orthodox Christian Neomartyrs of the Ottoman Period 1437-1860 lists crucifixion as one of the many forms thousands of Christians were executed by the Muslim Turks.

And in her memoir, Ravished Armenia, Aurora Mardiganian described how in the early twentieth century in the city of Malatia, she saw 16 girls crucified, vultures eating their corpses: “Each girl had been nailed alive upon her cross, spikes through her feet and hands,” wrote the Armenian survivor. “Only their hair blown by the wind covered their bodies.”

Prescribed in the Koran itself, crucifixions are as old as Islam and, with the global revival of the latter, are returning with increased frequency. And, although it is more politically correct to report on jihadis crucifying other jihadis—other terrorists or “spies”—the fact is, many more innocent Christians are being crucified again, including simply for refusing to embrace Islam and thus renounce Christ....
[quote][p][bold]Mike Roland[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]welshmen[/bold] wrote: Now is what's happening, killing fellow Muslims in the name of their loving God, this Religion at it's worst, killing for the sake of killing, the Black Flag of Muslim Jihad fly's through out the Middle East, the same one the Radicals fly here in our Capital City London, this so called Religion just hates, it hates every one that is not of it's faith, their holy book tells them kill all non believers and this is what they do at an alarming rate, never mind how many war's were Religiously led it's happening now, thousands getting butchered in the name of Allha, a wast of life, let's hope this useless stupid not fit for purpose Government do not send British Forces ever again to a Muslim Country, let the Muslims settle their dispute's between the Shiite and Sunni tribes, they have been at it since their loving God died....[/p][/quote]The only one spouting hate here Welshmen is you.[/p][/quote]Is there any room for the truth in that Liberal Elite brain cell of yours, Have a look on youtube, see what the Religion of Peace is doing to prisoners of war, you find something I have posted is not the truth,let us all know what lie I have told... I found this for you to read, see what you make of this? This is a report by Raymond Ibrahim on 5th May 2014.... According to recent Arabic news media, “a Syrian nun testified to the Vatican news agency that some Christians in Ma‘loula were crucified for refusing to convert to Islam or pay jizya” (tribute subjugated Christians are required to pay to their Islamic conquerors in order to exist as Christians, per Koran 9:29). Incidentally, they were crucified by the al-Qaeda linked Nasra Front (so much for Daily Mail’s portrayal of al-Qaeda “distancing” itself from the apparently “extra-extremist ISIL for crucifying its victims). Sister Raghad, the former head of the Patriarchate School in Damascus who currently resides in France, told Vatican Radio how she personally witnessed jihadi rebels terrorize Ma‘loula, including by pressuring Christians to proclaim the shehada—Islam’s credo that there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is his messenger—which, when uttered before Muslim witnesses transforms the speaker into a Muslim, with the death penalty for apostasy should the convert later “renege” by returning to Christianity. According to the nun, those Christians who refused to embrace Islam were killed in atrocious and violent ways that cannot be described. If you want examples, they crucified two youths in Ma‘loula for refusing to proclaim Islam’s credo, saying to them: “Perhaps you want to die like your teacher [Christ] whom you believe in? You have two choices: either proclaim the shehada or else be crucified.” One of them was crucified before his father, whom they also killed. In fact, according to earlier media reports from October 2013, soon after Ma‘loula fell to the jihadis, one “shaky voiced” elderly Christian man had reported that he heard the invading jihadis shouting, “Convert to Islam, or you will be crucified like Jesus.” It is, of course, a documented fact that some Christians in Ma‘loula were put to death for refusing to convert to Islam, such as Minas, an Armenian man, while other families succumbed to pressure and converted to Islam. But it is not clear whether the two crucified Christians mentioned by the nun are among the three men in Ma‘loula who, according to Asia News, “refused to repudiate their religion” and thus “were summarily executed in public”—so many and varied were the barbaric acts, including beheadings, rape, and infanticide during the rebel occupation, not to mention the other massacres in other Christian regions the mainstream media failed to report on. These three were declared martyrs by the Syrian Greek-Catholic Church, or as Patriarch Gregorios III explained to Pope Francis in a meeting: “Holy Father, they are true martyrs. Ordered to give up their faith, they proudly refused. Three others however gave in and were forced to declare themselves Muslim, but later returned to the faith of their ancestors.” For his part, and according to a May 3rd Arabic report, Pope Francis recently said, “I wept when I saw reports saying that Christians were being crucified in some non-Christian countries.” The fact is, crucifixion is a prescribed form of punishment in the Koran (5:33) and occurs throughout the Islamic world with much greater frequency than suggested by the Daily Mail. For example: Iraq, June 2008: A Canadian parliamentary committee heard about how “militant Muslims” were crucifying Christian children in order to terrorize Christians into fleeing Iraq: “Since the war began in 2003, about 12 children, many as young as 10, have been kidnapped and killed, then nailed to makeshift crosses near their homes to terrify and torment their parents.” Ivory Coast, May 2011: Two Christian peasant brothers were “brutally crucified” on “the example of Christ” by Muslim forces accusing them of being supportive of the ousted Christian president. One died, while the other survived: “The pair were badly beaten and tortured before being crudely nailed to cross-shaped planks by their hands and feet with steel spikes.” Egypt, August 2012: Multiple media agencies reported that during one uprisal against Islamist president Muhammad Morsi, Muslim Brotherhood operatives crucified some protesters on trees. Earlier, a Salafi MP in Egypt called for the penal codification of crucifixion. Yemen, August 2012: A video of a man crucified on the accusation of spying for the U.S. appeared. A sign placed above his head quotes Koran 5:33: “The recompense of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off from opposite sides, or be exiled from the land. That is their disgrace in this world, and a great torment is theirs in the Hereafter.” Of course, if one delves into Islamic history, one learns that crucifixions were extremely common. For example, Witnesses For Christ: Orthodox Christian Neomartyrs of the Ottoman Period 1437-1860 lists crucifixion as one of the many forms thousands of Christians were executed by the Muslim Turks. And in her memoir, Ravished Armenia, Aurora Mardiganian described how in the early twentieth century in the city of Malatia, she saw 16 girls crucified, vultures eating their corpses: “Each girl had been nailed alive upon her cross, spikes through her feet and hands,” wrote the Armenian survivor. “Only their hair blown by the wind covered their bodies.” Prescribed in the Koran itself, crucifixions are as old as Islam and, with the global revival of the latter, are returning with increased frequency. And, although it is more politically correct to report on jihadis crucifying other jihadis—other terrorists or “spies”—the fact is, many more innocent Christians are being crucified again, including simply for refusing to embrace Islam and thus renounce Christ.... welshmen
  • Score: 2

9:07pm Sun 15 Jun 14

welshmen says...

Mike Roland.......... bit more for you on Islam Stealth Banking, some thing you probably never knew....

A first for the ConDem government is that it has instructed banks to offer a 5 year £200million pound "sukuk".

This is the first sharia compliant Islamic bond to be issued by a Western state.
This Islamic bond is to be issued in the coming weeks the Treasury said in a statement late on Thursday (12th June). The offer opens on June 17 in Jeddah and Kuala Lumpur, followed by Riyadh, Dubai, Doha, and Abu Dhabi, culminating in London on June 20.

This sukuk trial is Cameron's bid to attract Islamic wealth in to the government's purse. Luxembourg, Hong Kong and South Africa all intend to copy Cameron's initiative.

The sukuk will utilise an ijara sharia style sale and lease back contract, which permits the rental income of government offices to underpin the transaction.

This means that legally, taxpayer financed government property, will soon become the technical property of anonymous Islamic investors.

This is fraud. While it may comply with sharia law it transgresses the rights of the British taxpayer who bought the property in the first place. Government buildings can not legally become the property of foreign investors.

In this ijara sukuk, the legal representative leases equipment, buildings and other assets to a client for an agreed rental price which is then passed to the investor instead of interest.

The system is flawed: a Muslim authority states the investment is sharia and the rental income, in all honesty, is really just the same as interest. The reality is that this sukuk is not sharia at all.

Earlier this year the Mark Carney run Bank of England started examining ways to increase sharia compliance, as well as asset security, to exploit the Islamic world's high levels of cash, often held in private safes to avoid paying taxes.

Cameron sees his future wealth coming from his corrupt Islamic mafia-style friends and is offering to launder Islamic profits with this sukuk.

Britain is fast becoming a haven for every corrupt Islamic fraudster to launder their wealth through via property, share holdings and now this sharia compliant ijara sukuk.....
Mike Roland.......... bit more for you on Islam Stealth Banking, some thing you probably never knew.... A first for the ConDem government is that it has instructed banks to offer a 5 year £200million pound "sukuk". This is the first sharia compliant Islamic bond to be issued by a Western state. This Islamic bond is to be issued in the coming weeks the Treasury said in a statement late on Thursday (12th June). The offer opens on June 17 in Jeddah and Kuala Lumpur, followed by Riyadh, Dubai, Doha, and Abu Dhabi, culminating in London on June 20. This sukuk trial is Cameron's bid to attract Islamic wealth in to the government's purse. Luxembourg, Hong Kong and South Africa all intend to copy Cameron's initiative. The sukuk will utilise an ijara sharia style sale and lease back contract, which permits the rental income of government offices to underpin the transaction. This means that legally, taxpayer financed government property, will soon become the technical property of anonymous Islamic investors. This is fraud. While it may comply with sharia law it transgresses the rights of the British taxpayer who bought the property in the first place. Government buildings can not legally become the property of foreign investors. In this ijara sukuk, the legal representative leases equipment, buildings and other assets to a client for an agreed rental price which is then passed to the investor instead of interest. The system is flawed: a Muslim authority states the investment is sharia and the rental income, in all honesty, is really just the same as interest. The reality is that this sukuk is not sharia at all. Earlier this year the Mark Carney run Bank of England started examining ways to increase sharia compliance, as well as asset security, to exploit the Islamic world's high levels of cash, often held in private safes to avoid paying taxes. Cameron sees his future wealth coming from his corrupt Islamic mafia-style friends and is offering to launder Islamic profits with this sukuk. Britain is fast becoming a haven for every corrupt Islamic fraudster to launder their wealth through via property, share holdings and now this sharia compliant ijara sukuk..... welshmen
  • Score: 4

10:30pm Sun 15 Jun 14

throwy1 says...

I would ask how many Posters have read the Quran, and how many know the Islamic Doctrine? I know of one poster who will claim to be well versed in both.
I have no problems with schools teaching R.E. or Social Relationships as I believe it is called today.
Where I do have an issue is confusing custom with Faith especially Faiths that are being brought into the country.
I admit I am a member of the Anglican Faith and practice my Faith in S.E.Wales. However because of my involvement, the robes i wear are worn within the boundaries of my Church and only worn in public when specifically invited. My Faith or Religious requirements are practiced in my house by my family and yes, anyone entering my/our house during a particular Religious occasion is expected to participate or don't visit at such times.
Similar should be required of Islam. There is no need for females who practice Islam to wear garb or robes in public outside of their Mosque. In fact Islam does not require males or females to wear garb such as Niquab or Burqua it only says dress modestly. N ow however should the custom of an Islamic country require such garb to be worn, it should be disregarded if such a person enters this country.
I would ask how many Posters have read the Quran, and how many know the Islamic Doctrine? I know of one poster who will claim to be well versed in both. I have no problems with schools teaching R.E. or Social Relationships as I believe it is called today. Where I do have an issue is confusing custom with Faith especially Faiths that are being brought into the country. I admit I am a member of the Anglican Faith and practice my Faith in S.E.Wales. However because of my involvement, the robes i wear are worn within the boundaries of my Church and only worn in public when specifically invited. My Faith or Religious requirements are practiced in my house by my family and yes, anyone entering my/our house during a particular Religious occasion is expected to participate or don't visit at such times. Similar should be required of Islam. There is no need for females who practice Islam to wear garb or robes in public outside of their Mosque. In fact Islam does not require males or females to wear garb such as Niquab or Burqua it only says dress modestly. N ow however should the custom of an Islamic country require such garb to be worn, it should be disregarded if such a person enters this country. throwy1
  • Score: 6

8:05am Mon 16 Jun 14

cymruambyth says...

welshmen wrote:
Mike Roland.......... bit more for you on Islam Stealth Banking, some thing you probably never knew....

A first for the ConDem government is that it has instructed banks to offer a 5 year £200million pound "sukuk".

This is the first sharia compliant Islamic bond to be issued by a Western state.
This Islamic bond is to be issued in the coming weeks the Treasury said in a statement late on Thursday (12th June). The offer opens on June 17 in Jeddah and Kuala Lumpur, followed by Riyadh, Dubai, Doha, and Abu Dhabi, culminating in London on June 20.

This sukuk trial is Cameron's bid to attract Islamic wealth in to the government's purse. Luxembourg, Hong Kong and South Africa all intend to copy Cameron's initiative.

The sukuk will utilise an ijara sharia style sale and lease back contract, which permits the rental income of government offices to underpin the transaction.

This means that legally, taxpayer financed government property, will soon become the technical property of anonymous Islamic investors.

This is fraud. While it may comply with sharia law it transgresses the rights of the British taxpayer who bought the property in the first place. Government buildings can not legally become the property of foreign investors.

In this ijara sukuk, the legal representative leases equipment, buildings and other assets to a client for an agreed rental price which is then passed to the investor instead of interest.

The system is flawed: a Muslim authority states the investment is sharia and the rental income, in all honesty, is really just the same as interest. The reality is that this sukuk is not sharia at all.

Earlier this year the Mark Carney run Bank of England started examining ways to increase sharia compliance, as well as asset security, to exploit the Islamic world's high levels of cash, often held in private safes to avoid paying taxes.

Cameron sees his future wealth coming from his corrupt Islamic mafia-style friends and is offering to launder Islamic profits with this sukuk.

Britain is fast becoming a haven for every corrupt Islamic fraudster to launder their wealth through via property, share holdings and now this sharia compliant ijara sukuk.....
Yeah, yeah - why have you got so much time on your hands for searching the web for your copy and paste racist posts?
[quote][p][bold]welshmen[/bold] wrote: Mike Roland.......... bit more for you on Islam Stealth Banking, some thing you probably never knew.... A first for the ConDem government is that it has instructed banks to offer a 5 year £200million pound "sukuk". This is the first sharia compliant Islamic bond to be issued by a Western state. This Islamic bond is to be issued in the coming weeks the Treasury said in a statement late on Thursday (12th June). The offer opens on June 17 in Jeddah and Kuala Lumpur, followed by Riyadh, Dubai, Doha, and Abu Dhabi, culminating in London on June 20. This sukuk trial is Cameron's bid to attract Islamic wealth in to the government's purse. Luxembourg, Hong Kong and South Africa all intend to copy Cameron's initiative. The sukuk will utilise an ijara sharia style sale and lease back contract, which permits the rental income of government offices to underpin the transaction. This means that legally, taxpayer financed government property, will soon become the technical property of anonymous Islamic investors. This is fraud. While it may comply with sharia law it transgresses the rights of the British taxpayer who bought the property in the first place. Government buildings can not legally become the property of foreign investors. In this ijara sukuk, the legal representative leases equipment, buildings and other assets to a client for an agreed rental price which is then passed to the investor instead of interest. The system is flawed: a Muslim authority states the investment is sharia and the rental income, in all honesty, is really just the same as interest. The reality is that this sukuk is not sharia at all. Earlier this year the Mark Carney run Bank of England started examining ways to increase sharia compliance, as well as asset security, to exploit the Islamic world's high levels of cash, often held in private safes to avoid paying taxes. Cameron sees his future wealth coming from his corrupt Islamic mafia-style friends and is offering to launder Islamic profits with this sukuk. Britain is fast becoming a haven for every corrupt Islamic fraudster to launder their wealth through via property, share holdings and now this sharia compliant ijara sukuk.....[/p][/quote]Yeah, yeah - why have you got so much time on your hands for searching the web for your copy and paste racist posts? cymruambyth
  • Score: -1

9:15am Mon 16 Jun 14

welshmen says...

cymruambyth wrote:
welshmen wrote:
Mike Roland.......... bit more for you on Islam Stealth Banking, some thing you probably never knew....

A first for the ConDem government is that it has instructed banks to offer a 5 year £200million pound "sukuk".

This is the first sharia compliant Islamic bond to be issued by a Western state.
This Islamic bond is to be issued in the coming weeks the Treasury said in a statement late on Thursday (12th June). The offer opens on June 17 in Jeddah and Kuala Lumpur, followed by Riyadh, Dubai, Doha, and Abu Dhabi, culminating in London on June 20.

This sukuk trial is Cameron's bid to attract Islamic wealth in to the government's purse. Luxembourg, Hong Kong and South Africa all intend to copy Cameron's initiative.

The sukuk will utilise an ijara sharia style sale and lease back contract, which permits the rental income of government offices to underpin the transaction.

This means that legally, taxpayer financed government property, will soon become the technical property of anonymous Islamic investors.

This is fraud. While it may comply with sharia law it transgresses the rights of the British taxpayer who bought the property in the first place. Government buildings can not legally become the property of foreign investors.

In this ijara sukuk, the legal representative leases equipment, buildings and other assets to a client for an agreed rental price which is then passed to the investor instead of interest.

The system is flawed: a Muslim authority states the investment is sharia and the rental income, in all honesty, is really just the same as interest. The reality is that this sukuk is not sharia at all.

Earlier this year the Mark Carney run Bank of England started examining ways to increase sharia compliance, as well as asset security, to exploit the Islamic world's high levels of cash, often held in private safes to avoid paying taxes.

Cameron sees his future wealth coming from his corrupt Islamic mafia-style friends and is offering to launder Islamic profits with this sukuk.

Britain is fast becoming a haven for every corrupt Islamic fraudster to launder their wealth through via property, share holdings and now this sharia compliant ijara sukuk.....
Yeah, yeah - why have you got so much time on your hands for searching the web for your copy and paste racist posts?
Your the racist, brave behind your keyboard Welsh faker, you keep your head where it always is, firmly up the Liberal Elite's backside, try watching the news on the media TV may be you might educate your self, and calling me a racist over Religion, will you never learn Religion is not a race idiot, pasteing is quicker and more truthful, and my post's are more truthful than your one liners, go and bore some one else....
[quote][p][bold]cymruambyth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]welshmen[/bold] wrote: Mike Roland.......... bit more for you on Islam Stealth Banking, some thing you probably never knew.... A first for the ConDem government is that it has instructed banks to offer a 5 year £200million pound "sukuk". This is the first sharia compliant Islamic bond to be issued by a Western state. This Islamic bond is to be issued in the coming weeks the Treasury said in a statement late on Thursday (12th June). The offer opens on June 17 in Jeddah and Kuala Lumpur, followed by Riyadh, Dubai, Doha, and Abu Dhabi, culminating in London on June 20. This sukuk trial is Cameron's bid to attract Islamic wealth in to the government's purse. Luxembourg, Hong Kong and South Africa all intend to copy Cameron's initiative. The sukuk will utilise an ijara sharia style sale and lease back contract, which permits the rental income of government offices to underpin the transaction. This means that legally, taxpayer financed government property, will soon become the technical property of anonymous Islamic investors. This is fraud. While it may comply with sharia law it transgresses the rights of the British taxpayer who bought the property in the first place. Government buildings can not legally become the property of foreign investors. In this ijara sukuk, the legal representative leases equipment, buildings and other assets to a client for an agreed rental price which is then passed to the investor instead of interest. The system is flawed: a Muslim authority states the investment is sharia and the rental income, in all honesty, is really just the same as interest. The reality is that this sukuk is not sharia at all. Earlier this year the Mark Carney run Bank of England started examining ways to increase sharia compliance, as well as asset security, to exploit the Islamic world's high levels of cash, often held in private safes to avoid paying taxes. Cameron sees his future wealth coming from his corrupt Islamic mafia-style friends and is offering to launder Islamic profits with this sukuk. Britain is fast becoming a haven for every corrupt Islamic fraudster to launder their wealth through via property, share holdings and now this sharia compliant ijara sukuk.....[/p][/quote]Yeah, yeah - why have you got so much time on your hands for searching the web for your copy and paste racist posts?[/p][/quote]Your the racist, brave behind your keyboard Welsh faker, you keep your head where it always is, firmly up the Liberal Elite's backside, try watching the news on the media TV may be you might educate your self, and calling me a racist over Religion, will you never learn Religion is not a race idiot, pasteing is quicker and more truthful, and my post's are more truthful than your one liners, go and bore some one else.... welshmen
  • Score: -1

10:25am Mon 16 Jun 14

pwlldu says...

Carwyn Jones lost faith in some councils delivering high standardof education. He said how can he when 6 councils that are Torfaen, Monmouthshire, Merthyr Tydfil, Anglesey, Blaenau Gwent and Pembrokeshire are in speical measures.
He thinks some councils are incapable of improving education in their area and it’s impossible to have faith in the delivery of education across Wales. Mr Jones argued it gives further urgency to the need to cut the number of councils, only if Labour get a marjortiy in the Welsh Assembly after the next Assembly elections.
If Mr Jones hasn’t got the confidence in some Labour councillors how can he expect the common vote to show any confidence for them to run our councils.
Carwyn Jones lost faith in some councils delivering high standardof education. He said how can he when 6 councils that are Torfaen, Monmouthshire, Merthyr Tydfil, Anglesey, Blaenau Gwent and Pembrokeshire are in speical measures. He thinks some councils are incapable of improving education in their area and it’s impossible to have faith in the delivery of education across Wales. Mr Jones argued it gives further urgency to the need to cut the number of councils, only if Labour get a marjortiy in the Welsh Assembly after the next Assembly elections. If Mr Jones hasn’t got the confidence in some Labour councillors how can he expect the common vote to show any confidence for them to run our councils. pwlldu
  • Score: -2

10:46am Mon 16 Jun 14

cymruambyth says...

welshmen wrote:
cymruambyth wrote:
welshmen wrote:
Mike Roland.......... bit more for you on Islam Stealth Banking, some thing you probably never knew....

A first for the ConDem government is that it has instructed banks to offer a 5 year £200million pound "sukuk".

This is the first sharia compliant Islamic bond to be issued by a Western state.
This Islamic bond is to be issued in the coming weeks the Treasury said in a statement late on Thursday (12th June). The offer opens on June 17 in Jeddah and Kuala Lumpur, followed by Riyadh, Dubai, Doha, and Abu Dhabi, culminating in London on June 20.

This sukuk trial is Cameron's bid to attract Islamic wealth in to the government's purse. Luxembourg, Hong Kong and South Africa all intend to copy Cameron's initiative.

The sukuk will utilise an ijara sharia style sale and lease back contract, which permits the rental income of government offices to underpin the transaction.

This means that legally, taxpayer financed government property, will soon become the technical property of anonymous Islamic investors.

This is fraud. While it may comply with sharia law it transgresses the rights of the British taxpayer who bought the property in the first place. Government buildings can not legally become the property of foreign investors.

In this ijara sukuk, the legal representative leases equipment, buildings and other assets to a client for an agreed rental price which is then passed to the investor instead of interest.

The system is flawed: a Muslim authority states the investment is sharia and the rental income, in all honesty, is really just the same as interest. The reality is that this sukuk is not sharia at all.

Earlier this year the Mark Carney run Bank of England started examining ways to increase sharia compliance, as well as asset security, to exploit the Islamic world's high levels of cash, often held in private safes to avoid paying taxes.

Cameron sees his future wealth coming from his corrupt Islamic mafia-style friends and is offering to launder Islamic profits with this sukuk.

Britain is fast becoming a haven for every corrupt Islamic fraudster to launder their wealth through via property, share holdings and now this sharia compliant ijara sukuk.....
Yeah, yeah - why have you got so much time on your hands for searching the web for your copy and paste racist posts?
Your the racist, brave behind your keyboard Welsh faker, you keep your head where it always is, firmly up the Liberal Elite's backside, try watching the news on the media TV may be you might educate your self, and calling me a racist over Religion, will you never learn Religion is not a race idiot, pasteing is quicker and more truthful, and my post's are more truthful than your one liners, go and bore some one else....
Melting down again Welshmen? I don't suppose you see the ignorance, contradictions and irony in "your" own posts. However, having tried to de-code the effluent you pollute this platform with, it really is quite clear just why you copy and paste. Ever thought of evening classes?
[quote][p][bold]welshmen[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cymruambyth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]welshmen[/bold] wrote: Mike Roland.......... bit more for you on Islam Stealth Banking, some thing you probably never knew.... A first for the ConDem government is that it has instructed banks to offer a 5 year £200million pound "sukuk". This is the first sharia compliant Islamic bond to be issued by a Western state. This Islamic bond is to be issued in the coming weeks the Treasury said in a statement late on Thursday (12th June). The offer opens on June 17 in Jeddah and Kuala Lumpur, followed by Riyadh, Dubai, Doha, and Abu Dhabi, culminating in London on June 20. This sukuk trial is Cameron's bid to attract Islamic wealth in to the government's purse. Luxembourg, Hong Kong and South Africa all intend to copy Cameron's initiative. The sukuk will utilise an ijara sharia style sale and lease back contract, which permits the rental income of government offices to underpin the transaction. This means that legally, taxpayer financed government property, will soon become the technical property of anonymous Islamic investors. This is fraud. While it may comply with sharia law it transgresses the rights of the British taxpayer who bought the property in the first place. Government buildings can not legally become the property of foreign investors. In this ijara sukuk, the legal representative leases equipment, buildings and other assets to a client for an agreed rental price which is then passed to the investor instead of interest. The system is flawed: a Muslim authority states the investment is sharia and the rental income, in all honesty, is really just the same as interest. The reality is that this sukuk is not sharia at all. Earlier this year the Mark Carney run Bank of England started examining ways to increase sharia compliance, as well as asset security, to exploit the Islamic world's high levels of cash, often held in private safes to avoid paying taxes. Cameron sees his future wealth coming from his corrupt Islamic mafia-style friends and is offering to launder Islamic profits with this sukuk. Britain is fast becoming a haven for every corrupt Islamic fraudster to launder their wealth through via property, share holdings and now this sharia compliant ijara sukuk.....[/p][/quote]Yeah, yeah - why have you got so much time on your hands for searching the web for your copy and paste racist posts?[/p][/quote]Your the racist, brave behind your keyboard Welsh faker, you keep your head where it always is, firmly up the Liberal Elite's backside, try watching the news on the media TV may be you might educate your self, and calling me a racist over Religion, will you never learn Religion is not a race idiot, pasteing is quicker and more truthful, and my post's are more truthful than your one liners, go and bore some one else....[/p][/quote]Melting down again Welshmen? I don't suppose you see the ignorance, contradictions and irony in "your" own posts. However, having tried to de-code the effluent you pollute this platform with, it really is quite clear just why you copy and paste. Ever thought of evening classes? cymruambyth
  • Score: 4

2:56pm Mon 16 Jun 14

Mike Roland says...

welshmen wrote:
cymruambyth wrote:
welshmen wrote:
Mike Roland.......... bit more for you on Islam Stealth Banking, some thing you probably never knew....

A first for the ConDem government is that it has instructed banks to offer a 5 year £200million pound "sukuk".

This is the first sharia compliant Islamic bond to be issued by a Western state.
This Islamic bond is to be issued in the coming weeks the Treasury said in a statement late on Thursday (12th June). The offer opens on June 17 in Jeddah and Kuala Lumpur, followed by Riyadh, Dubai, Doha, and Abu Dhabi, culminating in London on June 20.

This sukuk trial is Cameron's bid to attract Islamic wealth in to the government's purse. Luxembourg, Hong Kong and South Africa all intend to copy Cameron's initiative.

The sukuk will utilise an ijara sharia style sale and lease back contract, which permits the rental income of government offices to underpin the transaction.

This means that legally, taxpayer financed government property, will soon become the technical property of anonymous Islamic investors.

This is fraud. While it may comply with sharia law it transgresses the rights of the British taxpayer who bought the property in the first place. Government buildings can not legally become the property of foreign investors.

In this ijara sukuk, the legal representative leases equipment, buildings and other assets to a client for an agreed rental price which is then passed to the investor instead of interest.

The system is flawed: a Muslim authority states the investment is sharia and the rental income, in all honesty, is really just the same as interest. The reality is that this sukuk is not sharia at all.

Earlier this year the Mark Carney run Bank of England started examining ways to increase sharia compliance, as well as asset security, to exploit the Islamic world's high levels of cash, often held in private safes to avoid paying taxes.

Cameron sees his future wealth coming from his corrupt Islamic mafia-style friends and is offering to launder Islamic profits with this sukuk.

Britain is fast becoming a haven for every corrupt Islamic fraudster to launder their wealth through via property, share holdings and now this sharia compliant ijara sukuk.....
Yeah, yeah - why have you got so much time on your hands for searching the web for your copy and paste racist posts?
Your the racist, brave behind your keyboard Welsh faker, you keep your head where it always is, firmly up the Liberal Elite's backside, try watching the news on the media TV may be you might educate your self, and calling me a racist over Religion, will you never learn Religion is not a race idiot, pasteing is quicker and more truthful, and my post's are more truthful than your one liners, go and bore some one else....
What's a "keyboard Welsh faker"?
[quote][p][bold]welshmen[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cymruambyth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]welshmen[/bold] wrote: Mike Roland.......... bit more for you on Islam Stealth Banking, some thing you probably never knew.... A first for the ConDem government is that it has instructed banks to offer a 5 year £200million pound "sukuk". This is the first sharia compliant Islamic bond to be issued by a Western state. This Islamic bond is to be issued in the coming weeks the Treasury said in a statement late on Thursday (12th June). The offer opens on June 17 in Jeddah and Kuala Lumpur, followed by Riyadh, Dubai, Doha, and Abu Dhabi, culminating in London on June 20. This sukuk trial is Cameron's bid to attract Islamic wealth in to the government's purse. Luxembourg, Hong Kong and South Africa all intend to copy Cameron's initiative. The sukuk will utilise an ijara sharia style sale and lease back contract, which permits the rental income of government offices to underpin the transaction. This means that legally, taxpayer financed government property, will soon become the technical property of anonymous Islamic investors. This is fraud. While it may comply with sharia law it transgresses the rights of the British taxpayer who bought the property in the first place. Government buildings can not legally become the property of foreign investors. In this ijara sukuk, the legal representative leases equipment, buildings and other assets to a client for an agreed rental price which is then passed to the investor instead of interest. The system is flawed: a Muslim authority states the investment is sharia and the rental income, in all honesty, is really just the same as interest. The reality is that this sukuk is not sharia at all. Earlier this year the Mark Carney run Bank of England started examining ways to increase sharia compliance, as well as asset security, to exploit the Islamic world's high levels of cash, often held in private safes to avoid paying taxes. Cameron sees his future wealth coming from his corrupt Islamic mafia-style friends and is offering to launder Islamic profits with this sukuk. Britain is fast becoming a haven for every corrupt Islamic fraudster to launder their wealth through via property, share holdings and now this sharia compliant ijara sukuk.....[/p][/quote]Yeah, yeah - why have you got so much time on your hands for searching the web for your copy and paste racist posts?[/p][/quote]Your the racist, brave behind your keyboard Welsh faker, you keep your head where it always is, firmly up the Liberal Elite's backside, try watching the news on the media TV may be you might educate your self, and calling me a racist over Religion, will you never learn Religion is not a race idiot, pasteing is quicker and more truthful, and my post's are more truthful than your one liners, go and bore some one else....[/p][/quote]What's a "keyboard Welsh faker"? Mike Roland
  • Score: 2

3:53pm Mon 16 Jun 14

pwlldu says...

All faith schools should be abolished, with all different types of religion being taught. This will help the children to be more acceptable to other faiths.
All faith schools should be abolished, with all different types of religion being taught. This will help the children to be more acceptable to other faiths. pwlldu
  • Score: 1

5:43pm Mon 16 Jun 14

jimmytheone2 says...

welshmen wrote:
Now is what's happening, killing fellow Muslims in the name of their loving God, this Religion at it's worst, killing for the sake of killing, the Black Flag of Muslim Jihad fly's through out the Middle East, the same one the Radicals fly here in our Capital City London, this so called Religion just hates, it hates every one that is not of it's faith, their holy book tells them kill all non believers and this is what they do at an alarming rate, never mind how many war's were Religiously led it's happening now, thousands getting butchered in the name of Allha, a wast of life, let's hope this useless stupid not fit for purpose Government do not send British Forces ever again to a Muslim Country, let the Muslims settle their dispute's between the Shiite and Sunni tribes, they have been at it since their loving God died....
You certainly take the biscuit, don't you?
I can't believe you said "this so called religion just hates, it hates every one that is not of it's faith"
Does that ring any bells, Welshmen - sound like someone we know?
You get more idiotic by the day - you're a joke. Take a look at yourself.

I'd use the expression "pot calling the kettle black", but that would probably send you off on another racist rant.
[quote][p][bold]welshmen[/bold] wrote: Now is what's happening, killing fellow Muslims in the name of their loving God, this Religion at it's worst, killing for the sake of killing, the Black Flag of Muslim Jihad fly's through out the Middle East, the same one the Radicals fly here in our Capital City London, this so called Religion just hates, it hates every one that is not of it's faith, their holy book tells them kill all non believers and this is what they do at an alarming rate, never mind how many war's were Religiously led it's happening now, thousands getting butchered in the name of Allha, a wast of life, let's hope this useless stupid not fit for purpose Government do not send British Forces ever again to a Muslim Country, let the Muslims settle their dispute's between the Shiite and Sunni tribes, they have been at it since their loving God died....[/p][/quote]You certainly take the biscuit, don't you? I can't believe you said "this so called religion just hates, it hates every one that is not of it's faith" Does that ring any bells, Welshmen - sound like someone we know? You get more idiotic by the day - you're a joke. Take a look at yourself. I'd use the expression "pot calling the kettle black", but that would probably send you off on another racist rant. jimmytheone2
  • Score: 2

7:51pm Mon 16 Jun 14

welshmen says...

jimmytheone2 wrote:
welshmen wrote:
Now is what's happening, killing fellow Muslims in the name of their loving God, this Religion at it's worst, killing for the sake of killing, the Black Flag of Muslim Jihad fly's through out the Middle East, the same one the Radicals fly here in our Capital City London, this so called Religion just hates, it hates every one that is not of it's faith, their holy book tells them kill all non believers and this is what they do at an alarming rate, never mind how many war's were Religiously led it's happening now, thousands getting butchered in the name of Allha, a wast of life, let's hope this useless stupid not fit for purpose Government do not send British Forces ever again to a Muslim Country, let the Muslims settle their dispute's between the Shiite and Sunni tribes, they have been at it since their loving God died....
You certainly take the biscuit, don't you?
I can't believe you said "this so called religion just hates, it hates every one that is not of it's faith"
Does that ring any bells, Welshmen - sound like someone we know?
You get more idiotic by the day - you're a joke. Take a look at yourself.

I'd use the expression "pot calling the kettle black", but that would probably send you off on another racist rant.
What's racist about Religion, what's racist about telling the truth, what's racist about not wanting Immigrants flooding this Country, the word racist is used by the anti-white, used by people like you to keep every body accepting masses of foreigners, your an appeaser, an appeaser of Isalm scared stiff to say any thing, an appeaser of Immigration, scared stiff you'll be called a racist, the PC brigade have done the job on you, you will keep quite and except anything your told, unlike me, I question every thing I don't agree with, you don't....

Try and put your own input into posts, how you feel on Islam or Immigration, don't just sit there like a vulture waiting and waiting for me to post....
[quote][p][bold]jimmytheone2[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]welshmen[/bold] wrote: Now is what's happening, killing fellow Muslims in the name of their loving God, this Religion at it's worst, killing for the sake of killing, the Black Flag of Muslim Jihad fly's through out the Middle East, the same one the Radicals fly here in our Capital City London, this so called Religion just hates, it hates every one that is not of it's faith, their holy book tells them kill all non believers and this is what they do at an alarming rate, never mind how many war's were Religiously led it's happening now, thousands getting butchered in the name of Allha, a wast of life, let's hope this useless stupid not fit for purpose Government do not send British Forces ever again to a Muslim Country, let the Muslims settle their dispute's between the Shiite and Sunni tribes, they have been at it since their loving God died....[/p][/quote]You certainly take the biscuit, don't you? I can't believe you said "this so called religion just hates, it hates every one that is not of it's faith" Does that ring any bells, Welshmen - sound like someone we know? You get more idiotic by the day - you're a joke. Take a look at yourself. I'd use the expression "pot calling the kettle black", but that would probably send you off on another racist rant.[/p][/quote]What's racist about Religion, what's racist about telling the truth, what's racist about not wanting Immigrants flooding this Country, the word racist is used by the anti-white, used by people like you to keep every body accepting masses of foreigners, your an appeaser, an appeaser of Isalm scared stiff to say any thing, an appeaser of Immigration, scared stiff you'll be called a racist, the PC brigade have done the job on you, you will keep quite and except anything your told, unlike me, I question every thing I don't agree with, you don't.... Try and put your own input into posts, how you feel on Islam or Immigration, don't just sit there like a vulture waiting and waiting for me to post.... welshmen
  • Score: 2

7:57pm Mon 16 Jun 14

welshmen says...

Mike Roland wrote:
welshmen wrote:
cymruambyth wrote:
welshmen wrote:
Mike Roland.......... bit more for you on Islam Stealth Banking, some thing you probably never knew....

A first for the ConDem government is that it has instructed banks to offer a 5 year £200million pound "sukuk".

This is the first sharia compliant Islamic bond to be issued by a Western state.
This Islamic bond is to be issued in the coming weeks the Treasury said in a statement late on Thursday (12th June). The offer opens on June 17 in Jeddah and Kuala Lumpur, followed by Riyadh, Dubai, Doha, and Abu Dhabi, culminating in London on June 20.

This sukuk trial is Cameron's bid to attract Islamic wealth in to the government's purse. Luxembourg, Hong Kong and South Africa all intend to copy Cameron's initiative.

The sukuk will utilise an ijara sharia style sale and lease back contract, which permits the rental income of government offices to underpin the transaction.

This means that legally, taxpayer financed government property, will soon become the technical property of anonymous Islamic investors.

This is fraud. While it may comply with sharia law it transgresses the rights of the British taxpayer who bought the property in the first place. Government buildings can not legally become the property of foreign investors.

In this ijara sukuk, the legal representative leases equipment, buildings and other assets to a client for an agreed rental price which is then passed to the investor instead of interest.

The system is flawed: a Muslim authority states the investment is sharia and the rental income, in all honesty, is really just the same as interest. The reality is that this sukuk is not sharia at all.

Earlier this year the Mark Carney run Bank of England started examining ways to increase sharia compliance, as well as asset security, to exploit the Islamic world's high levels of cash, often held in private safes to avoid paying taxes.

Cameron sees his future wealth coming from his corrupt Islamic mafia-style friends and is offering to launder Islamic profits with this sukuk.

Britain is fast becoming a haven for every corrupt Islamic fraudster to launder their wealth through via property, share holdings and now this sharia compliant ijara sukuk.....
Yeah, yeah - why have you got so much time on your hands for searching the web for your copy and paste racist posts?
Your the racist, brave behind your keyboard Welsh faker, you keep your head where it always is, firmly up the Liberal Elite's backside, try watching the news on the media TV may be you might educate your self, and calling me a racist over Religion, will you never learn Religion is not a race idiot, pasteing is quicker and more truthful, and my post's are more truthful than your one liners, go and bore some one else....
What's a "keyboard Welsh faker"?
cymruambyth:"keyboar
d, Welsh faker"?....

So mike rowland, you except Islam as it is? you except Immigration as it is?.....tell us....what political party do you vote for?....
[quote][p][bold]Mike Roland[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]welshmen[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cymruambyth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]welshmen[/bold] wrote: Mike Roland.......... bit more for you on Islam Stealth Banking, some thing you probably never knew.... A first for the ConDem government is that it has instructed banks to offer a 5 year £200million pound "sukuk". This is the first sharia compliant Islamic bond to be issued by a Western state. This Islamic bond is to be issued in the coming weeks the Treasury said in a statement late on Thursday (12th June). The offer opens on June 17 in Jeddah and Kuala Lumpur, followed by Riyadh, Dubai, Doha, and Abu Dhabi, culminating in London on June 20. This sukuk trial is Cameron's bid to attract Islamic wealth in to the government's purse. Luxembourg, Hong Kong and South Africa all intend to copy Cameron's initiative. The sukuk will utilise an ijara sharia style sale and lease back contract, which permits the rental income of government offices to underpin the transaction. This means that legally, taxpayer financed government property, will soon become the technical property of anonymous Islamic investors. This is fraud. While it may comply with sharia law it transgresses the rights of the British taxpayer who bought the property in the first place. Government buildings can not legally become the property of foreign investors. In this ijara sukuk, the legal representative leases equipment, buildings and other assets to a client for an agreed rental price which is then passed to the investor instead of interest. The system is flawed: a Muslim authority states the investment is sharia and the rental income, in all honesty, is really just the same as interest. The reality is that this sukuk is not sharia at all. Earlier this year the Mark Carney run Bank of England started examining ways to increase sharia compliance, as well as asset security, to exploit the Islamic world's high levels of cash, often held in private safes to avoid paying taxes. Cameron sees his future wealth coming from his corrupt Islamic mafia-style friends and is offering to launder Islamic profits with this sukuk. Britain is fast becoming a haven for every corrupt Islamic fraudster to launder their wealth through via property, share holdings and now this sharia compliant ijara sukuk.....[/p][/quote]Yeah, yeah - why have you got so much time on your hands for searching the web for your copy and paste racist posts?[/p][/quote]Your the racist, brave behind your keyboard Welsh faker, you keep your head where it always is, firmly up the Liberal Elite's backside, try watching the news on the media TV may be you might educate your self, and calling me a racist over Religion, will you never learn Religion is not a race idiot, pasteing is quicker and more truthful, and my post's are more truthful than your one liners, go and bore some one else....[/p][/quote]What's a "keyboard Welsh faker"?[/p][/quote]cymruambyth:"keyboar d, Welsh faker"?.... So mike rowland, you except Islam as it is? you except Immigration as it is?.....tell us....what political party do you vote for?.... welshmen
  • Score: 1

10:34pm Mon 16 Jun 14

mkaibear1 says...

Mike, please stop feeding the troll.
Mike, please stop feeding the troll. mkaibear1
  • Score: -2

11:42pm Mon 16 Jun 14

welshmen says...

mkaibear1 wrote:
Mike, please stop feeding the troll.
And what mosque do you get your orders from, the same as your fellow brother mike, your full of the same stuff bulls pass through their backend....
[quote][p][bold]mkaibear1[/bold] wrote: Mike, please stop feeding the troll.[/p][/quote]And what mosque do you get your orders from, the same as your fellow brother mike, your full of the same stuff bulls pass through their backend.... welshmen
  • Score: 1

8:10am Tue 17 Jun 14

snappersearch says...

Welshmen's probably such a bigot and dont realise that he be a racist because he is so frightened of what he dont understand and got no idea what racism means. Bet he logs on with more computers to give hiself likes.
Welshmen's probably such a bigot and dont realise that he be a racist because he is so frightened of what he dont understand and got no idea what racism means. Bet he logs on with more computers to give hiself likes. snappersearch
  • Score: -1

9:14am Tue 17 Jun 14

mkaibear1 says...

welshmen wrote:
mkaibear1 wrote:
Mike, please stop feeding the troll.
And what mosque do you get your orders from, the same as your fellow brother mike, your full of the same stuff bulls pass through their backend....
I know I shouldn't, however;

Please don't start sentences with "and", it's bad grammar.

Proper nouns should be capitalised.

The second "your" should be "you are" or "you're".

At some point if you're asking a question you might want a question mark. You may also wish to consider splitting your sentences into actual sentences rather than one long one.

Finally an ellipsis is usually three full stops - though a rather minor point.

3/10 poor effort, must try harder.
[quote][p][bold]welshmen[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mkaibear1[/bold] wrote: Mike, please stop feeding the troll.[/p][/quote]And what mosque do you get your orders from, the same as your fellow brother mike, your full of the same stuff bulls pass through their backend....[/p][/quote]I know I shouldn't, however; Please don't start sentences with "and", it's bad grammar. Proper nouns should be capitalised. The second "your" should be "you are" or "you're". At some point if you're asking a question you might want a question mark. You may also wish to consider splitting your sentences into actual sentences rather than one long one. Finally an ellipsis is usually three full stops - though a rather minor point. 3/10 poor effort, must try harder. mkaibear1
  • Score: -1

10:20am Tue 17 Jun 14

Mike Roland says...

mkaibear1 wrote:
Mike, please stop feeding the troll.
Yes, you're right, but more often than not I find it simply impossible to resist goading him into one of his unbelievable rants.Sorry!
[quote][p][bold]mkaibear1[/bold] wrote: Mike, please stop feeding the troll.[/p][/quote]Yes, you're right, but more often than not I find it simply impossible to resist goading him into one of his unbelievable rants.Sorry! Mike Roland
  • Score: 1

10:38am Tue 17 Jun 14

welshmen says...

snappersearch wrote:
Welshmen's probably such a bigot and dont realise that he be a racist because he is so frightened of what he dont understand and got no idea what racism means. Bet he logs on with more computers to give hiself likes.
And you embrace ISSI, your a nobody who's Liberal love everybody views are traitorous to our Country, spouting your bullsh-t on here is easy, because that's why you do it....You like the Muslims killing fellow Muslims do you, i don't, bigot, racist, fascist, nazi I have had them all named at me. like water of a ducks back, the problem with the name callers and grammar correctors is , this is all they know, not a clue what's happening in the world, so Islam does Democracy, embraces Homosexuals, equal rights for women, NOT. Your probably a Muslim like most who dislike the truth posted about their barbaric Religion, murder people in this Country, grooming gangs yet again are not protested by the so called Moderate Muslim people, it's all what they want never what they should do, they don't mix or marry into our Culture yet want the same as British people who abide by all our laws, I would be glad to see the back of all of them go to an Islamic State of their choice, quicker the better for people who embrace all our culture not just cherry pick....
[quote][p][bold]snappersearch[/bold] wrote: Welshmen's probably such a bigot and dont realise that he be a racist because he is so frightened of what he dont understand and got no idea what racism means. Bet he logs on with more computers to give hiself likes.[/p][/quote]And you embrace ISSI, your a nobody who's Liberal love everybody views are traitorous to our Country, spouting your bullsh-t on here is easy, because that's why you do it....You like the Muslims killing fellow Muslims do you, i don't, bigot, racist, fascist, nazi I have had them all named at me. like water of a ducks back, the problem with the name callers and grammar correctors is , this is all they know, not a clue what's happening in the world, so Islam does Democracy, embraces Homosexuals, equal rights for women, NOT. Your probably a Muslim like most who dislike the truth posted about their barbaric Religion, murder people in this Country, grooming gangs yet again are not protested by the so called Moderate Muslim people, it's all what they want never what they should do, they don't mix or marry into our Culture yet want the same as British people who abide by all our laws, I would be glad to see the back of all of them go to an Islamic State of their choice, quicker the better for people who embrace all our culture not just cherry pick.... welshmen
  • Score: 1

10:41am Tue 17 Jun 14

mkaibear1 says...

Mike Roland wrote:
mkaibear1 wrote:
Mike, please stop feeding the troll.
Yes, you're right, but more often than not I find it simply impossible to resist goading him into one of his unbelievable rants.Sorry!
I can't really complain, I'm having fun with his grammar and spelling...
[quote][p][bold]Mike Roland[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mkaibear1[/bold] wrote: Mike, please stop feeding the troll.[/p][/quote]Yes, you're right, but more often than not I find it simply impossible to resist goading him into one of his unbelievable rants.Sorry![/p][/quote]I can't really complain, I'm having fun with his grammar and spelling... mkaibear1
  • Score: -2

10:52am Tue 17 Jun 14

mkaibear1 says...

welshmen wrote:
snappersearch wrote:
Welshmen's probably such a bigot and dont realise that he be a racist because he is so frightened of what he dont understand and got no idea what racism means. Bet he logs on with more computers to give hiself likes.
And you embrace ISSI, your a nobody who's Liberal love everybody views are traitorous to our Country, spouting your bullsh-t on here is easy, because that's why you do it....You like the Muslims killing fellow Muslims do you, i don't, bigot, racist, fascist, nazi I have had them all named at me. like water of a ducks back, the problem with the name callers and grammar correctors is , this is all they know, not a clue what's happening in the world, so Islam does Democracy, embraces Homosexuals, equal rights for women, NOT. Your probably a Muslim like most who dislike the truth posted about their barbaric Religion, murder people in this Country, grooming gangs yet again are not protested by the so called Moderate Muslim people, it's all what they want never what they should do, they don't mix or marry into our Culture yet want the same as British people who abide by all our laws, I would be glad to see the back of all of them go to an Islamic State of their choice, quicker the better for people who embrace all our culture not just cherry pick....
It's just too easy.

The problem with you, welshmen (as opposed to the problem with you Welshmen which is a conversation for another time) is that you're quite happy to claim that one side of the argument has been affected by propaganda but somehow can't spot that you likewise have been affected.

The idea that you have a special knowledge which is better than other people's knowledge is a classic self-attribution fallacy. You believe what you believe and every time something comes up that validates your belief system you grab hold of it. Unfortunately every time something comes up that invalidates your belief system you reject it out of hand and claim it is proof of a conspiracy against you.

The essential irony is that you have made a religion out of your hatred for Islam. You've generated your very own religion of hate, you reject anyone who is a moderate, you're basically acting in exactly the same way as an extremist Islamist.


Oh, and there's also an *enormous* irony in your comment about "they don't mix or marry into our Culture yet want the same as British people who abide by all our laws" and yet you refuse to learn the English language, which has laws and customs and culture of its own.
[quote][p][bold]welshmen[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]snappersearch[/bold] wrote: Welshmen's probably such a bigot and dont realise that he be a racist because he is so frightened of what he dont understand and got no idea what racism means. Bet he logs on with more computers to give hiself likes.[/p][/quote]And you embrace ISSI, your a nobody who's Liberal love everybody views are traitorous to our Country, spouting your bullsh-t on here is easy, because that's why you do it....You like the Muslims killing fellow Muslims do you, i don't, bigot, racist, fascist, nazi I have had them all named at me. like water of a ducks back, the problem with the name callers and grammar correctors is , this is all they know, not a clue what's happening in the world, so Islam does Democracy, embraces Homosexuals, equal rights for women, NOT. Your probably a Muslim like most who dislike the truth posted about their barbaric Religion, murder people in this Country, grooming gangs yet again are not protested by the so called Moderate Muslim people, it's all what they want never what they should do, they don't mix or marry into our Culture yet want the same as British people who abide by all our laws, I would be glad to see the back of all of them go to an Islamic State of their choice, quicker the better for people who embrace all our culture not just cherry pick....[/p][/quote]It's just too easy. The problem with you, welshmen (as opposed to the problem with you Welshmen which is a conversation for another time) is that you're quite happy to claim that one side of the argument has been affected by propaganda but somehow can't spot that you likewise have been affected. The idea that you have a special knowledge which is better than other people's knowledge is a classic self-attribution fallacy. You believe what you believe and every time something comes up that validates your belief system you grab hold of it. Unfortunately every time something comes up that invalidates your belief system you reject it out of hand and claim it is proof of a conspiracy against you. The essential irony is that you have made a religion out of your hatred for Islam. You've generated your very own religion of hate, you reject anyone who is a moderate, you're basically acting in exactly the same way as an extremist Islamist. Oh, and there's also an *enormous* irony in your comment about "they don't mix or marry into our Culture yet want the same as British people who abide by all our laws" and yet you refuse to learn the English language, which has laws and customs and culture of its own. mkaibear1
  • Score: -1

11:18am Tue 17 Jun 14

welshmen says...

mkaibear1 wrote:
welshmen wrote:
mkaibear1 wrote:
Mike, please stop feeding the troll.
And what mosque do you get your orders from, the same as your fellow brother mike, your full of the same stuff bulls pass through their backend....
I know I shouldn't, however;

Please don't start sentences with "and", it's bad grammar.

Proper nouns should be capitalised.

The second "your" should be "you are" or "you're".

At some point if you're asking a question you might want a question mark. You may also wish to consider splitting your sentences into actual sentences rather than one long one.

Finally an ellipsis is usually three full stops - though a rather minor point.

3/10 poor effort, must try harder.
Taht's all oyur you hvae, no snsee our ability to uersdnantd iuesss taht mtaetr to the scetuiry of our cdhliern's fruurte, taht's if you konw how to do taht splmie tsak ppatgogre....
[quote][p][bold]mkaibear1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]welshmen[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mkaibear1[/bold] wrote: Mike, please stop feeding the troll.[/p][/quote]And what mosque do you get your orders from, the same as your fellow brother mike, your full of the same stuff bulls pass through their backend....[/p][/quote]I know I shouldn't, however; Please don't start sentences with "and", it's bad grammar. Proper nouns should be capitalised. The second "your" should be "you are" or "you're". At some point if you're asking a question you might want a question mark. You may also wish to consider splitting your sentences into actual sentences rather than one long one. Finally an ellipsis is usually three full stops - though a rather minor point. 3/10 poor effort, must try harder.[/p][/quote]Taht's all oyur you hvae, no snsee our ability to uersdnantd iuesss taht mtaetr to the scetuiry of our cdhliern's fruurte, taht's if you konw how to do taht splmie tsak ppatgogre.... welshmen
  • Score: 1

11:25am Tue 17 Jun 14

mkaibear1 says...

>Taht's all oyur you hvae, no snsee our ability to uersdnantd iuesss taht mtaetr to the scetuiry of our cdhliern's fruurte, taht's if you konw how to do taht splmie tsak ppatgogre....

Oh dear his blood pressure has got so high he's had an incident. Never mind, wipe up the dribble and I'm sure you'll be back to posting (non)sense in a while.
>Taht's all oyur you hvae, no snsee our ability to uersdnantd iuesss taht mtaetr to the scetuiry of our cdhliern's fruurte, taht's if you konw how to do taht splmie tsak ppatgogre.... Oh dear his blood pressure has got so high he's had an incident. Never mind, wipe up the dribble and I'm sure you'll be back to posting (non)sense in a while. mkaibear1
  • Score: -2

11:44am Tue 17 Jun 14

welshmen says...

mkaibear1 wrote:
welshmen wrote:
snappersearch wrote:
Welshmen's probably such a bigot and dont realise that he be a racist because he is so frightened of what he dont understand and got no idea what racism means. Bet he logs on with more computers to give hiself likes.
And you embrace ISSI, your a nobody who's Liberal love everybody views are traitorous to our Country, spouting your bullsh-t on here is easy, because that's why you do it....You like the Muslims killing fellow Muslims do you, i don't, bigot, racist, fascist, nazi I have had them all named at me. like water of a ducks back, the problem with the name callers and grammar correctors is , this is all they know, not a clue what's happening in the world, so Islam does Democracy, embraces Homosexuals, equal rights for women, NOT. Your probably a Muslim like most who dislike the truth posted about their barbaric Religion, murder people in this Country, grooming gangs yet again are not protested by the so called Moderate Muslim people, it's all what they want never what they should do, they don't mix or marry into our Culture yet want the same as British people who abide by all our laws, I would be glad to see the back of all of them go to an Islamic State of their choice, quicker the better for people who embrace all our culture not just cherry pick....
It's just too easy.

The problem with you, welshmen (as opposed to the problem with you Welshmen which is a conversation for another time) is that you're quite happy to claim that one side of the argument has been affected by propaganda but somehow can't spot that you likewise have been affected.

The idea that you have a special knowledge which is better than other people's knowledge is a classic self-attribution fallacy. You believe what you believe and every time something comes up that validates your belief system you grab hold of it. Unfortunately every time something comes up that invalidates your belief system you reject it out of hand and claim it is proof of a conspiracy against you.

The essential irony is that you have made a religion out of your hatred for Islam. You've generated your very own religion of hate, you reject anyone who is a moderate, you're basically acting in exactly the same way as an extremist Islamist.


Oh, and there's also an *enormous* irony in your comment about "they don't mix or marry into our Culture yet want the same as British people who abide by all our laws" and yet you refuse to learn the English language, which has laws and customs and culture of its own.
Trojan Horse debate: We were wrong, all cultures are not equal:

Have read, this is a post by an X teacher by the Telegraph
a woman named Allison Pearson:

she goes on to post,
If I have learnt one thing working with children as a teacher, a volunteer and, more recently, a parent, it’s that what children want above all else is to fit in. The desire not to be different must be hard-wired, so urgent is the need of your average nine-year-old to have the same pencil case as every other nine-year-old. Individuality, much prized in adult life, is abhorred by our conservative juniors, who crave acceptance as the thirsty crave water. “Fitting in” is braided into the DNA of every child, regardless of creed or colour. When the deep, resonant bell of human evolution tolls, it says: “Belong, belong, belong.”
Integrating children into a new society, then, should not present too much of a problem. A football, some Panini World Cup stickers to trade, One Direction, Harry Potter, 97 episodes of Friends, especially the one where Rachel has a baby: common interests for youngsters are not hard to find. So how have we ended up with a situation where so many Muslims are adrift from the mainstream? Why this scandal in Birmingham where five overwhelmingly Muslim schools, some until recently judged to be outstanding, are to be put into special measures because they have sought to inculcate ideas that are repellent to this country?

Let me quote Myriam Francois-Cerrah, a writer and Muslim convert, who told Channel 4 News on Tuesday that she rejected calls by the Prime Minister and Michael Gove, the Education Secretary, for schools to promote British values. “In many ways, the problem is creating a hierarchy of cultures when you say you need to promote British values,” she objected. “What does that say to children in a classroom whose heritage harks from outside the British Isles? It says this country has superior moral values and you are coming from some backward culture whose values you … must not consider equal to our own.”
Funnily enough, that’s exactly what we are saying, Myriam. Spot on! A Muslim girl who winds up in Bolton or Luton should thank her lucky stars she doesn’t live in Sudan – or Pakistan, where, only last month, a woman was stoned to death by her family for the crime of marrying a man of whom they disapproved. Farzana Parveen’s father explained: “I killed my daughter as she had insulted all of our family by marrying a man without our consent, and I have no regret over it.”

Are British values superior to Mr Parveen’s? I do hope so.
Unfortunately, the great lie underpinning the creed of multiculturalism, as spouted by Francois‑Cerrah and her ilk, is that all cultures are “equally valid”. Well, patently, they’re not. The reason irate Pakistani patriarchs are not chucking bricks at their errant daughters in the Birmingham Bull Ring is because Britain has a basically uncorrupt police force, a robust judiciary and an enlightened, hard-won system of liberal values that regards women and girls as equals, not third-class citizens.
But instead of standing up to barbarism and ignorance, too often we have looked away in embarrassment or fear. How many teachers have averted their gaze when 13-year-old Muslim girls suddenly disappear from the classroom to be taken “home” for a forced marriage, because this would present unwelcome evidence that some cultures are less valid than others?
How many health professionals in Bradford are concerned, but never say so, that intermarriage in the Muslim community – 75 per cent of Pakistanis in the city are married to their first cousin – is causing babies to be born blind, deaf and with other disabilities? Back in 2008, when Labour environment minister Phil Woolas said that British Pakistanis were fuelling the rate of birth defects, he was slapped down by Downing Street, with a spokesman for prime minister Gordon Brown saying the issue was not one for ministers to comment on. Government after government has filed this thorny issue in “The Too Difficult Box”, the title of a timely new book edited by former Cabinet minister Charles Clarke.
This was all so predictable. Back in the summer of 1981, I was working in a primary school in west London where the children were dizzy with excitement about Prince Charles and Lady Di. The royal wedding was a great unifying event, but there was one group of pupils who were not allowed to fit in. The little Muslim girls did not wear cool, gingham-checked dresses in the heat like the others. Instead, they were dressed in the winter uniform – a polo neck and tunic worn over strictly non-uniform trousers and thick tights. As far as I could tell, no teacher dared challenge this clear breach of school rules. In a similar spirit, it was accepted that the Muslim girls could not attend the weekly swimming lesson.
When a trip was planned to Hampton Court, the children were told they would be seeing Henry VIII’s bed. Somehow, the word “bed”, coupled with the humongously **** Henry, set off alarm bells among Muslim parents, who withdrew their sons and daughters from the outing. This irrational boycott was tolerated. I remember thinking how awful and sad it was that liberal, white teachers didn’t stick up for the Muslim children’s right to play a full part in the life of their country.
It made me angry when I was practically a child myself, and it makes me even angrier now, 30 years on, thinking of the lost decades when good people did nothing to prevent the toxic situation outlined this week by the chief inspector of schools. Music and dancing banned in a primary school because they are un-Islamic. Muslim pupils not allowed to study Shakespeare’s Much Ado About Nothing because it shows young people falling in love and marrying. A preacher who believes homosexuals should be stoned to death invited to address an assembly – in a British school in a British town, forsooth. Children as young as six told that Western women are “white prostitutes”, if you please.
Sir Michael Wilshaw, the Ofsted chief, said that hardline Islamists wanted to impose a “narrow, faith-based ideology” on schools in Birmingham, though clearly the problem is not confined to one city. Now Bradford, Luton and east London are being investigated.
And still our politicians will not face up to what multiculturalism has unleashed: one of the biggest peacetime challenges ever faced by Britain. Nick Clegg, at his most ineffectually Fotherington-Thomas, says he is “sure that all parents will support a wide curriculum”. As if. The promised “dawn-raid” school inspections, which will not give schools time to stage Christian lessons to fool Ofsted inspectors, are too little, too late.
Growing suggestions that all faith schools should be banned because some Muslims cannot be trusted to prepare their children for life in contemporary society are simply outrageous. Why should Catholic, Jewish and Church of England schools, which provide a terrific, disciplined learning environment for millions of children, be forced to cease their good work and shut down? Why must the tolerant be made to carry the can for the intolerable?
The crisis in Birmingham made me look up Ray Honeyford. The headmaster of a school in Bradford, Honeyford published an article highly critical of multiculturalism around the same time that I was wondering why Muslim girls in west London weren’t allowed to learn how to swim. Honeyford was damned as a racist and forced to take early retirement, but how prophetic his words seem now. The alarmed headmaster referred to a “growing number of Asians whose aim is to preserve as intact as possible the values of the Indian subcontinent within a framework of British social and political privilege”. Honeyford questioned the wisdom of the local education authority in allowing such practices as the withdrawal of children from school for months at a time, in order to go “home” to Pakistan, on the grounds that this was appropriate to the children’s native culture.
“Those of us working in Asian areas,” he wrote, “are encouraged, officially, to 'celebrate linguistic diversity’ – ie, applaud the rapidly mounting linguistic confusion in these growing number of city schools in which British-born Asian children begin their mastery of English by being taught in Urdu.”
Ray Honeyford died in 2012, so he didn’t live to see the Leeds secondary school where every single pupil, including a handful of white ones, is being taught English as a foreign language. He didn’t need to see it. He knew it would happen, and what the cost would be, and his warnings were shouted down or put away in the Too Difficult Box.
I think the battle we must fight now really has very little to do with sincere religious belief. It’s about social control, repression, misogyny and cruelty. The battle is about Kamaljit, a 14-year-old girl I once taught, who chided me when I read the class a story about snakes in India, like the good, clueless multiculturalist that I was. “Please, Miss, we don’t like that stuff,” she said. “We’re English. We like ice skating.”
We have to expose Muslim children to as wide a range of experiences as possible so they will feel the gravitational pull of British values. If a Devon primary school recently criticised by Ofsted for not being multicultural enough (yes, really) can arrange a horizon-broadening trip to the inner city, then surely it’s time that Birmingham and Bradford came to Hereford and Hampshire. It was Rodgers and Hammerstein who observed in South Pacific: “You’ve got to be taught to hate and fear / You’ve got to be taught from year to year / It’s got to be drummed in your dear little ear / You’ve got to be carefully taught. / You’ve got to be taught before it’s too late / Before you are six or seven or eight / To hate all the people your relatives hate / You’ve got to be carefully taught.”
But there is another song, and a better one, and children will learn it if they are only given the chance: Belong, belong, belong.

If you think this is wrong it's to late for you. you have already been brainwashed, if that's the case I feel sorry for you, because only hatred will follow you for ever....
[quote][p][bold]mkaibear1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]welshmen[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]snappersearch[/bold] wrote: Welshmen's probably such a bigot and dont realise that he be a racist because he is so frightened of what he dont understand and got no idea what racism means. Bet he logs on with more computers to give hiself likes.[/p][/quote]And you embrace ISSI, your a nobody who's Liberal love everybody views are traitorous to our Country, spouting your bullsh-t on here is easy, because that's why you do it....You like the Muslims killing fellow Muslims do you, i don't, bigot, racist, fascist, nazi I have had them all named at me. like water of a ducks back, the problem with the name callers and grammar correctors is , this is all they know, not a clue what's happening in the world, so Islam does Democracy, embraces Homosexuals, equal rights for women, NOT. Your probably a Muslim like most who dislike the truth posted about their barbaric Religion, murder people in this Country, grooming gangs yet again are not protested by the so called Moderate Muslim people, it's all what they want never what they should do, they don't mix or marry into our Culture yet want the same as British people who abide by all our laws, I would be glad to see the back of all of them go to an Islamic State of their choice, quicker the better for people who embrace all our culture not just cherry pick....[/p][/quote]It's just too easy. The problem with you, welshmen (as opposed to the problem with you Welshmen which is a conversation for another time) is that you're quite happy to claim that one side of the argument has been affected by propaganda but somehow can't spot that you likewise have been affected. The idea that you have a special knowledge which is better than other people's knowledge is a classic self-attribution fallacy. You believe what you believe and every time something comes up that validates your belief system you grab hold of it. Unfortunately every time something comes up that invalidates your belief system you reject it out of hand and claim it is proof of a conspiracy against you. The essential irony is that you have made a religion out of your hatred for Islam. You've generated your very own religion of hate, you reject anyone who is a moderate, you're basically acting in exactly the same way as an extremist Islamist. Oh, and there's also an *enormous* irony in your comment about "they don't mix or marry into our Culture yet want the same as British people who abide by all our laws" and yet you refuse to learn the English language, which has laws and customs and culture of its own.[/p][/quote]Trojan Horse debate: We were wrong, all cultures are not equal: Have read, this is a post by an X teacher by the Telegraph a woman named Allison Pearson: she goes on to post, If I have learnt one thing working with children as a teacher, a volunteer and, more recently, a parent, it’s that what children want above all else is to fit in. The desire not to be different must be hard-wired, so urgent is the need of your average nine-year-old to have the same pencil case as every other nine-year-old. Individuality, much prized in adult life, is abhorred by our conservative juniors, who crave acceptance as the thirsty crave water. “Fitting in” is braided into the DNA of every child, regardless of creed or colour. When the deep, resonant bell of human evolution tolls, it says: “Belong, belong, belong.” Integrating children into a new society, then, should not present too much of a problem. A football, some Panini World Cup stickers to trade, One Direction, Harry Potter, 97 episodes of Friends, especially the one where Rachel has a baby: common interests for youngsters are not hard to find. So how have we ended up with a situation where so many Muslims are adrift from the mainstream? Why this scandal in Birmingham where five overwhelmingly Muslim schools, some until recently judged to be outstanding, are to be put into special measures because they have sought to inculcate ideas that are repellent to this country? Let me quote Myriam Francois-Cerrah, a writer and Muslim convert, who told Channel 4 News on Tuesday that she rejected calls by the Prime Minister and Michael Gove, the Education Secretary, for schools to promote British values. “In many ways, the problem is creating a hierarchy of cultures when you say you need to promote British values,” she objected. “What does that say to children in a classroom whose heritage harks from outside the British Isles? It says this country has superior moral values and you are coming from some backward culture whose values you … must not consider equal to our own.” Funnily enough, that’s exactly what we are saying, Myriam. Spot on! A Muslim girl who winds up in Bolton or Luton should thank her lucky stars she doesn’t live in Sudan – or Pakistan, where, only last month, a woman was stoned to death by her family for the crime of marrying a man of whom they disapproved. Farzana Parveen’s father explained: “I killed my daughter as she had insulted all of our family by marrying a man without our consent, and I have no regret over it.” Are British values superior to Mr Parveen’s? I do hope so. Unfortunately, the great lie underpinning the creed of multiculturalism, as spouted by Francois‑Cerrah and her ilk, is that all cultures are “equally valid”. Well, patently, they’re not. The reason irate Pakistani patriarchs are not chucking bricks at their errant daughters in the Birmingham Bull Ring is because Britain has a basically uncorrupt police force, a robust judiciary and an enlightened, hard-won system of liberal values that regards women and girls as equals, not third-class citizens. But instead of standing up to barbarism and ignorance, too often we have looked away in embarrassment or fear. How many teachers have averted their gaze when 13-year-old Muslim girls suddenly disappear from the classroom to be taken “home” for a forced marriage, because this would present unwelcome evidence that some cultures are less valid than others? How many health professionals in Bradford are concerned, but never say so, that intermarriage in the Muslim community – 75 per cent of Pakistanis in the city are married to their first cousin – is causing babies to be born blind, deaf and with other disabilities? Back in 2008, when Labour environment minister Phil Woolas said that British Pakistanis were fuelling the rate of birth defects, he was slapped down by Downing Street, with a spokesman for prime minister Gordon Brown saying the issue was not one for ministers to comment on. Government after government has filed this thorny issue in “The Too Difficult Box”, the title of a timely new book edited by former Cabinet minister Charles Clarke. This was all so predictable. Back in the summer of 1981, I was working in a primary school in west London where the children were dizzy with excitement about Prince Charles and Lady Di. The royal wedding was a great unifying event, but there was one group of pupils who were not allowed to fit in. The little Muslim girls did not wear cool, gingham-checked dresses in the heat like the others. Instead, they were dressed in the winter uniform – a polo neck and tunic worn over strictly non-uniform trousers and thick tights. As far as I could tell, no teacher dared challenge this clear breach of school rules. In a similar spirit, it was accepted that the Muslim girls could not attend the weekly swimming lesson. When a trip was planned to Hampton Court, the children were told they would be seeing Henry VIII’s bed. Somehow, the word “bed”, coupled with the humongously **** Henry, set off alarm bells among Muslim parents, who withdrew their sons and daughters from the outing. This irrational boycott was tolerated. I remember thinking how awful and sad it was that liberal, white teachers didn’t stick up for the Muslim children’s right to play a full part in the life of their country. It made me angry when I was practically a child myself, and it makes me even angrier now, 30 years on, thinking of the lost decades when good people did nothing to prevent the toxic situation outlined this week by the chief inspector of schools. Music and dancing banned in a primary school because they are un-Islamic. Muslim pupils not allowed to study Shakespeare’s Much Ado About Nothing because it shows young people falling in love and marrying. A preacher who believes homosexuals should be stoned to death invited to address an assembly – in a British school in a British town, forsooth. Children as young as six told that Western women are “white prostitutes”, if you please. Sir Michael Wilshaw, the Ofsted chief, said that hardline Islamists wanted to impose a “narrow, faith-based ideology” on schools in Birmingham, though clearly the problem is not confined to one city. Now Bradford, Luton and east London are being investigated. And still our politicians will not face up to what multiculturalism has unleashed: one of the biggest peacetime challenges ever faced by Britain. Nick Clegg, at his most ineffectually Fotherington-Thomas, says he is “sure that all parents will support a wide curriculum”. As if. The promised “dawn-raid” school inspections, which will not give schools time to stage Christian lessons to fool Ofsted inspectors, are too little, too late. Growing suggestions that all faith schools should be banned because some Muslims cannot be trusted to prepare their children for life in contemporary society are simply outrageous. Why should Catholic, Jewish and Church of England schools, which provide a terrific, disciplined learning environment for millions of children, be forced to cease their good work and shut down? Why must the tolerant be made to carry the can for the intolerable? The crisis in Birmingham made me look up Ray Honeyford. The headmaster of a school in Bradford, Honeyford published an article highly critical of multiculturalism around the same time that I was wondering why Muslim girls in west London weren’t allowed to learn how to swim. Honeyford was damned as a racist and forced to take early retirement, but how prophetic his words seem now. The alarmed headmaster referred to a “growing number of Asians whose aim is to preserve as intact as possible the values of the Indian subcontinent within a framework of British social and political privilege”. Honeyford questioned the wisdom of the local education authority in allowing such practices as the withdrawal of children from school for months at a time, in order to go “home” to Pakistan, on the grounds that this was appropriate to the children’s native culture. “Those of us working in Asian areas,” he wrote, “are encouraged, officially, to 'celebrate linguistic diversity’ – ie, applaud the rapidly mounting linguistic confusion in these growing number of city schools in which British-born Asian children begin their mastery of English by being taught in Urdu.” Ray Honeyford died in 2012, so he didn’t live to see the Leeds secondary school where every single pupil, including a handful of white ones, is being taught English as a foreign language. He didn’t need to see it. He knew it would happen, and what the cost would be, and his warnings were shouted down or put away in the Too Difficult Box. I think the battle we must fight now really has very little to do with sincere religious belief. It’s about social control, repression, misogyny and cruelty. The battle is about Kamaljit, a 14-year-old girl I once taught, who chided me when I read the class a story about snakes in India, like the good, clueless multiculturalist that I was. “Please, Miss, we don’t like that stuff,” she said. “We’re English. We like ice skating.” We have to expose Muslim children to as wide a range of experiences as possible so they will feel the gravitational pull of British values. If a Devon primary school recently criticised by Ofsted for not being multicultural enough (yes, really) can arrange a horizon-broadening trip to the inner city, then surely it’s time that Birmingham and Bradford came to Hereford and Hampshire. It was Rodgers and Hammerstein who observed in South Pacific: “You’ve got to be taught to hate and fear / You’ve got to be taught from year to year / It’s got to be drummed in your dear little ear / You’ve got to be carefully taught. / You’ve got to be taught before it’s too late / Before you are six or seven or eight / To hate all the people your relatives hate / You’ve got to be carefully taught.” But there is another song, and a better one, and children will learn it if they are only given the chance: Belong, belong, belong. If you think this is wrong it's to late for you. you have already been brainwashed, if that's the case I feel sorry for you, because only hatred will follow you for ever.... welshmen
  • Score: 4

12:00pm Tue 17 Jun 14

mkaibear1 says...

So why are you trying to teach people to hate and fear, welshmen?

It's an interesting polemic which starts with a complaint that we're not forcing people to integrate into society on our terms and ends with a statement that we should allow people to belong.

Which one is it? Force them to integrate on our terms or allow them to belong?

I'd make another point - when we had the wave of Afro-Caribbean migration onto these shores people complained about the charismatic churches they set up, they complained that they took over areas for people with their ethnicity and they complained that they didn't integrate.

Now they're integrated properly into society, members of the community.

When we had the wave of far-eastern Asian migration onto these shores people complained about the way they went about things, about the "ghettos" occupied by Chinese or Japanese people, about how they weren't integrating.

Now they're integrated properly into society, members of the community.


What makes you think that the Muslims are special? In what way are they different to the Afro/Caribbean immigrants? To the Chinese, Japanese, Korean immigrants? To the Polish, Romanian, or other Eastern European immigrants?
So why are you trying to teach people to hate and fear, welshmen? It's an interesting polemic which starts with a complaint that we're not forcing people to integrate into society on our terms and ends with a statement that we should allow people to belong. Which one is it? Force them to integrate on our terms or allow them to belong? I'd make another point - when we had the wave of Afro-Caribbean migration onto these shores people complained about the charismatic churches they set up, they complained that they took over areas for people with their ethnicity and they complained that they didn't integrate. Now they're integrated properly into society, members of the community. When we had the wave of far-eastern Asian migration onto these shores people complained about the way they went about things, about the "ghettos" occupied by Chinese or Japanese people, about how they weren't integrating. Now they're integrated properly into society, members of the community. What makes you think that the Muslims are special? In what way are they different to the Afro/Caribbean immigrants? To the Chinese, Japanese, Korean immigrants? To the Polish, Romanian, or other Eastern European immigrants? mkaibear1
  • Score: 1

12:33pm Tue 17 Jun 14

Mike Roland says...

Please do try not to answer that post with one of your standard and most tedious "British native" responses, welshmen.
Please do try not to answer that post with one of your standard and most tedious "British native" responses, welshmen. Mike Roland
  • Score: 0

2:52pm Tue 17 Jun 14

RR1234 says...

Welshmen I agree with you that consanguinous marriages increase the risk of congenital defects in children. But you are confusing religion with culture. marrying cousins is not seen in muslim countrys. It was done by previous generations of muslims in this country, so to maintain their culture and identity. Rightly or wrongly that is a cultural issue not due to Islam.
Again I read many times on many posts that 'the moderate muslim' is not doing anything. How can a moderate muslim influence change in other countries? It is the foriegn policies of the West that have inflammed the rapid rise of extremists. Lets not forget only months ago ISIS was fighting on the 'good side' in Syria. Iran is a 'bad guy' in Syria but only today on the radio it is being touted as 'a potential good guy' in Iraq.
In terms of what muslims locally are doing. Jamia mosque in newport is the biggest mosque in Wales. It has taken 30 odd years to build. It was offered millions of pounds by Saudia Arabia years back but under the insistance that an Imam from Saudia Arabia must be installed. This was rejected due to the fear of Wahabbisim. Many sunni and shia scholars talk about the threat of their idealogy which was born and continues to be supported by the Saudis. The West need to acknowledge the threats coming from one of their 'closest allies'.
WIth regards to women wearing the niqaab/headscarf. I again do agree many are forced to wear them, but what about those that wish to wear them? DO they not have a choice? So you have certain muslims forcing women to wear what they think they should wear, and people with ideas similar to yourself forcing women not to wear what they want.
Sorry but there were soo many criticisms that I am not able to give each one an answer on one post. happy to have a decent debate. As I tell my fellow muslims the dangers with regards to researching on the internet or as I call it Sheikh google, I would also implore you to not paint us all with the same brush. TO the extremists we are infidels, to others we are extremists. But I do agree with you there are many things the muslims need to do and preventing extremism in mosques and brainwashing of the youth is extremely important. SOmething the local mosques are acutely aware of and actively teaching against. Does this happen in all mosques up and down the country, a reasonable person will know that it probably is not, but I can only give you an honest answer with regards to what is happening locally. The aim being to try to convince you that we are not the same as what you see on the TV.
Welshmen I agree with you that consanguinous marriages increase the risk of congenital defects in children. But you are confusing religion with culture. marrying cousins is not seen in muslim countrys. It was done by previous generations of muslims in this country, so to maintain their culture and identity. Rightly or wrongly that is a cultural issue not due to Islam. Again I read many times on many posts that 'the moderate muslim' is not doing anything. How can a moderate muslim influence change in other countries? It is the foriegn policies of the West that have inflammed the rapid rise of extremists. Lets not forget only months ago ISIS was fighting on the 'good side' in Syria. Iran is a 'bad guy' in Syria but only today on the radio it is being touted as 'a potential good guy' in Iraq. In terms of what muslims locally are doing. Jamia mosque in newport is the biggest mosque in Wales. It has taken 30 odd years to build. It was offered millions of pounds by Saudia Arabia years back but under the insistance that an Imam from Saudia Arabia must be installed. This was rejected due to the fear of Wahabbisim. Many sunni and shia scholars talk about the threat of their idealogy which was born and continues to be supported by the Saudis. The West need to acknowledge the threats coming from one of their 'closest allies'. WIth regards to women wearing the niqaab/headscarf. I again do agree many are forced to wear them, but what about those that wish to wear them? DO they not have a choice? So you have certain muslims forcing women to wear what they think they should wear, and people with ideas similar to yourself forcing women not to wear what they want. Sorry but there were soo many criticisms that I am not able to give each one an answer on one post. happy to have a decent debate. As I tell my fellow muslims the dangers with regards to researching on the internet or as I call it Sheikh google, I would also implore you to not paint us all with the same brush. TO the extremists we are infidels, to others we are extremists. But I do agree with you there are many things the muslims need to do and preventing extremism in mosques and brainwashing of the youth is extremely important. SOmething the local mosques are acutely aware of and actively teaching against. Does this happen in all mosques up and down the country, a reasonable person will know that it probably is not, but I can only give you an honest answer with regards to what is happening locally. The aim being to try to convince you that we are not the same as what you see on the TV. RR1234
  • Score: 1

2:54pm Tue 17 Jun 14

RR1234 says...

Going back to the original article. RE is a fundamental part of a childrens education. A subject I enjoyed learning about. We should learn about each others difference but what many people forget is actually RE taught us the many similarities amongst us all.
Going back to the original article. RE is a fundamental part of a childrens education. A subject I enjoyed learning about. We should learn about each others difference but what many people forget is actually RE taught us the many similarities amongst us all. RR1234
  • Score: 1

2:59pm Tue 17 Jun 14

welshmen says...

What makes you think that the Muslims are special? In what way are they different to the Afro/Caribbean immigrants? To the Chinese, Japanese, Korean immigrants? To the Polish, Romanian, or other Eastern European immigrants?

First off your Colonisers your not immigrants as others you mentioned....
--------------------
--------------------


The Muslims are not special, but the Muslim think they are, their Holy book tells them to not befriend Christians, Jews, infidel, Kaffur or any other unbelievers, as your Imam preaches to you, they don't like living by our Laws, you have to have your Sharia councils, our schools have to change to suite your religion non-stunned slaughter like the Jews, which is Barbaric in this modern day, no other Immigrants to date that you have mentioned have killed British people through terrorism or butchered a British Soldier in our country, they don't marry our people unless the convert to their religion, like the Jews, all the other immigrants do marry our people, Muslims have to marry someone in the family, go back to Pakistan or where ever to marry a cousin that in its self causes health problems,.

It's your religion that must live to our laws along with it's followers, your nothing like any other religion, you want our Country or any Country you Colonise, you will get that by breeding 4x1 in Muslim births, the big problem is if our Government don't remove your Religion from our Country before Muslims get anywhere near out numbering the British people there will be a civil war, same as every where your religion lives, look at your history, how many Nobel Prizes have your people won compared to the Jews, the only good education Muslims get is when you came to the West, Muslims do what they need to do to get the Sharia Law working, if it takes decades then it takes decades in the end they will out breed and hope to make Britain an Islamic State, simple as that, all your lies and scheming will be found out as it is now, like your mates on here don't you need to go and fight some one some where who offends your Religion, i could go on and on about your Religion of Peace, but to be honest even your Religions name sickens me, you moderates need to show your against the negatives but to date you never do, as Taqiyya - Saying something that isn't true.

From Islamic Law:

Reliance of the Traveler (p. 746 - 8.2) - "Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible (N:i.e. when the purpose of lying is to circumvent someone who is preventing one from doing something permissible), and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory... it is religiously precautionary in all cases to employ words that give a misleading impression...

A perfect description on how to fool people as you do....


"One should compare the bad consequences entailed by lying to those entailed by telling the truth, and if the consequences of telling the truth are more damaging, one is entitled to lie.


Bukhari (49:857) - "He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar." Lying is permitted when the end justifies the means.

Bukhari (84:64-65) - Speaking from a position of power at the time, Ali confirms that lying is permissible in order to deceive an "enemy."....

In my world seeing is believing, haven't seen anything yet....
Wahabi Imams, need to keep them away from your next generation if peace is what you really want.... and finally TELL US WHAT GOOD ISLAM DOES in our Country....
What makes you think that the Muslims are special? In what way are they different to the Afro/Caribbean immigrants? To the Chinese, Japanese, Korean immigrants? To the Polish, Romanian, or other Eastern European immigrants? First off your Colonisers your not immigrants as others you mentioned.... -------------------- -------------------- The Muslims are not special, but the Muslim think they are, their Holy book tells them to not befriend Christians, Jews, infidel, Kaffur or any other unbelievers, as your Imam preaches to you, they don't like living by our Laws, you have to have your Sharia councils, our schools have to change to suite your religion non-stunned slaughter like the Jews, which is Barbaric in this modern day, no other Immigrants to date that you have mentioned have killed British people through terrorism or butchered a British Soldier in our country, they don't marry our people unless the convert to their religion, like the Jews, all the other immigrants do marry our people, Muslims have to marry someone in the family, go back to Pakistan or where ever to marry a cousin that in its self causes health problems,. It's your religion that must live to our laws along with it's followers, your nothing like any other religion, you want our Country or any Country you Colonise, you will get that by breeding 4x1 in Muslim births, the big problem is if our Government don't remove your Religion from our Country before Muslims get anywhere near out numbering the British people there will be a civil war, same as every where your religion lives, look at your history, how many Nobel Prizes have your people won compared to the Jews, the only good education Muslims get is when you came to the West, Muslims do what they need to do to get the Sharia Law working, if it takes decades then it takes decades in the end they will out breed and hope to make Britain an Islamic State, simple as that, all your lies and scheming will be found out as it is now, like your mates on here don't you need to go and fight some one some where who offends your Religion, i could go on and on about your Religion of Peace, but to be honest even your Religions name sickens me, you moderates need to show your against the negatives but to date you never do, as Taqiyya - Saying something that isn't true. From Islamic Law: Reliance of the Traveler (p. 746 - 8.2) - "Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible (N:i.e. when the purpose of lying is to circumvent someone who is preventing one from doing something permissible), and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory... it is religiously precautionary in all cases to employ words that give a misleading impression... A perfect description on how to fool people as you do.... "One should compare the bad consequences entailed by lying to those entailed by telling the truth, and if the consequences of telling the truth are more damaging, one is entitled to lie. Bukhari (49:857) - "He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar." Lying is permitted when the end justifies the means. Bukhari (84:64-65) - Speaking from a position of power at the time, Ali confirms that lying is permissible in order to deceive an "enemy.".... In my world seeing is believing, haven't seen anything yet.... Wahabi Imams, need to keep them away from your next generation if peace is what you really want.... and finally TELL US WHAT GOOD ISLAM DOES in our Country.... welshmen
  • Score: 0

3:17pm Tue 17 Jun 14

mkaibear1 says...

Interesting that you're still thinking I'm a Muslim. Oh well. I shall have to ask my Pastor if it's still OK for me to preach on Sunday.

1) The Quran doesn't state not to befriend unbelievers, it's a mistranslation as I understand it (one of the reasons that the Quran isn't considered to be scripture unless it's in its original language). A better translation is apparently "Let not believers take disbelievers as allies rather than believers" which is substantially different.

2) The Hadith are not scripture to the Muslims. They are teachings based around the Quran but they are just that - teachings from human beings, and your quoting of the Bukhari as Scripture which Muslims must follow are the equivalent of claiming the Pope's ex cathedra statements have the same stature as the Old and New Testaments.

3) You don't care about seeing or believing or you'd be out talking to Muslims and seeing how they live their lives. You'd be spending time with the culture and trying to help them integrate into ours.

*you* and those like you are the reason Muslims find it difficult to integrate. Your bigotry, hatred and xenophobia are why many Muslims find it easier to only spend time with their own kind.

So here's a challenge for you. Go to a mosque. I think RR1234 referred to one in Newport but there's a fair few around. Go and spend some time with Muslims, not your blinkered view of Muslims but real people. Get your head out of your conspiracy theories and off the internet and go and speak to a person.

Or are you too scared to try anything that might knock your comfortable world view? Are you too scared to even consider letting go of your hatred?
Interesting that you're still thinking I'm a Muslim. Oh well. I shall have to ask my Pastor if it's still OK for me to preach on Sunday. 1) The Quran doesn't state not to befriend unbelievers, it's a mistranslation as I understand it (one of the reasons that the Quran isn't considered to be scripture unless it's in its original language). A better translation is apparently "Let not believers take disbelievers as allies rather than believers" which is substantially different. 2) The Hadith are not scripture to the Muslims. They are teachings based around the Quran but they are just that - teachings from human beings, and your quoting of the Bukhari as Scripture which Muslims must follow are the equivalent of claiming the Pope's ex cathedra statements have the same stature as the Old and New Testaments. 3) You don't care about seeing or believing or you'd be out talking to Muslims and seeing how they live their lives. You'd be spending time with the culture and trying to help them integrate into ours. *you* and those like you are the reason Muslims find it difficult to integrate. Your bigotry, hatred and xenophobia are why many Muslims find it easier to only spend time with their own kind. So here's a challenge for you. Go to a mosque. I think RR1234 referred to one in Newport but there's a fair few around. Go and spend some time with Muslims, not your blinkered view of Muslims but real people. Get your head out of your conspiracy theories and off the internet and go and speak to a person. Or are you too scared to try anything that might knock your comfortable world view? Are you too scared to even consider letting go of your hatred? mkaibear1
  • Score: 0

3:23pm Tue 17 Jun 14

welshmen says...

RR1234 wrote:
Welshmen I agree with you that consanguinous marriages increase the risk of congenital defects in children. But you are confusing religion with culture. marrying cousins is not seen in muslim countrys. It was done by previous generations of muslims in this country, so to maintain their culture and identity. Rightly or wrongly that is a cultural issue not due to Islam.
Again I read many times on many posts that 'the moderate muslim' is not doing anything. How can a moderate muslim influence change in other countries? It is the foriegn policies of the West that have inflammed the rapid rise of extremists. Lets not forget only months ago ISIS was fighting on the 'good side' in Syria. Iran is a 'bad guy' in Syria but only today on the radio it is being touted as 'a potential good guy' in Iraq.
In terms of what muslims locally are doing. Jamia mosque in newport is the biggest mosque in Wales. It has taken 30 odd years to build. It was offered millions of pounds by Saudia Arabia years back but under the insistance that an Imam from Saudia Arabia must be installed. This was rejected due to the fear of Wahabbisim. Many sunni and shia scholars talk about the threat of their idealogy which was born and continues to be supported by the Saudis. The West need to acknowledge the threats coming from one of their 'closest allies'.
WIth regards to women wearing the niqaab/headscarf. I again do agree many are forced to wear them, but what about those that wish to wear them? DO they not have a choice? So you have certain muslims forcing women to wear what they think they should wear, and people with ideas similar to yourself forcing women not to wear what they want.
Sorry but there were soo many criticisms that I am not able to give each one an answer on one post. happy to have a decent debate. As I tell my fellow muslims the dangers with regards to researching on the internet or as I call it Sheikh google, I would also implore you to not paint us all with the same brush. TO the extremists we are infidels, to others we are extremists. But I do agree with you there are many things the muslims need to do and preventing extremism in mosques and brainwashing of the youth is extremely important. SOmething the local mosques are acutely aware of and actively teaching against. Does this happen in all mosques up and down the country, a reasonable person will know that it probably is not, but I can only give you an honest answer with regards to what is happening locally. The aim being to try to convince you that we are not the same as what you see on the TV.
Thank you, RR1234, my last post relates to mkailbear1, your right in a lot you have posted, you recognise the outside problems that many Muslims face through Saudia Arabia and the Wahbi Imams, you seem to be very well aware of their influence they can inflict on your young people, the moderates in other countries do get threatened and killed if they don't obey the Radicals instructions for change, it's a pity the other Mosques don't act as yours, you need to tell every outlet you can, including the Media your Aims, I am sure it would make for good TV and quell the big doubt that Islam and it's followers want this Country for an Islamic State and Sharia Law....You need to put your Case forward....
[quote][p][bold]RR1234[/bold] wrote: Welshmen I agree with you that consanguinous marriages increase the risk of congenital defects in children. But you are confusing religion with culture. marrying cousins is not seen in muslim countrys. It was done by previous generations of muslims in this country, so to maintain their culture and identity. Rightly or wrongly that is a cultural issue not due to Islam. Again I read many times on many posts that 'the moderate muslim' is not doing anything. How can a moderate muslim influence change in other countries? It is the foriegn policies of the West that have inflammed the rapid rise of extremists. Lets not forget only months ago ISIS was fighting on the 'good side' in Syria. Iran is a 'bad guy' in Syria but only today on the radio it is being touted as 'a potential good guy' in Iraq. In terms of what muslims locally are doing. Jamia mosque in newport is the biggest mosque in Wales. It has taken 30 odd years to build. It was offered millions of pounds by Saudia Arabia years back but under the insistance that an Imam from Saudia Arabia must be installed. This was rejected due to the fear of Wahabbisim. Many sunni and shia scholars talk about the threat of their idealogy which was born and continues to be supported by the Saudis. The West need to acknowledge the threats coming from one of their 'closest allies'. WIth regards to women wearing the niqaab/headscarf. I again do agree many are forced to wear them, but what about those that wish to wear them? DO they not have a choice? So you have certain muslims forcing women to wear what they think they should wear, and people with ideas similar to yourself forcing women not to wear what they want. Sorry but there were soo many criticisms that I am not able to give each one an answer on one post. happy to have a decent debate. As I tell my fellow muslims the dangers with regards to researching on the internet or as I call it Sheikh google, I would also implore you to not paint us all with the same brush. TO the extremists we are infidels, to others we are extremists. But I do agree with you there are many things the muslims need to do and preventing extremism in mosques and brainwashing of the youth is extremely important. SOmething the local mosques are acutely aware of and actively teaching against. Does this happen in all mosques up and down the country, a reasonable person will know that it probably is not, but I can only give you an honest answer with regards to what is happening locally. The aim being to try to convince you that we are not the same as what you see on the TV.[/p][/quote]Thank you, RR1234, my last post relates to mkailbear1, your right in a lot you have posted, you recognise the outside problems that many Muslims face through Saudia Arabia and the Wahbi Imams, you seem to be very well aware of their influence they can inflict on your young people, the moderates in other countries do get threatened and killed if they don't obey the Radicals instructions for change, it's a pity the other Mosques don't act as yours, you need to tell every outlet you can, including the Media your Aims, I am sure it would make for good TV and quell the big doubt that Islam and it's followers want this Country for an Islamic State and Sharia Law....You need to put your Case forward.... welshmen
  • Score: 0

3:26pm Tue 17 Jun 14

welshmen says...

RR1234 wrote:
Welshmen I agree with you that consanguinous marriages increase the risk of congenital defects in children. But you are confusing religion with culture. marrying cousins is not seen in muslim countrys. It was done by previous generations of muslims in this country, so to maintain their culture and identity. Rightly or wrongly that is a cultural issue not due to Islam.
Again I read many times on many posts that 'the moderate muslim' is not doing anything. How can a moderate muslim influence change in other countries? It is the foriegn policies of the West that have inflammed the rapid rise of extremists. Lets not forget only months ago ISIS was fighting on the 'good side' in Syria. Iran is a 'bad guy' in Syria but only today on the radio it is being touted as 'a potential good guy' in Iraq.
In terms of what muslims locally are doing. Jamia mosque in newport is the biggest mosque in Wales. It has taken 30 odd years to build. It was offered millions of pounds by Saudia Arabia years back but under the insistance that an Imam from Saudia Arabia must be installed. This was rejected due to the fear of Wahabbisim. Many sunni and shia scholars talk about the threat of their idealogy which was born and continues to be supported by the Saudis. The West need to acknowledge the threats coming from one of their 'closest allies'.
WIth regards to women wearing the niqaab/headscarf. I again do agree many are forced to wear them, but what about those that wish to wear them? DO they not have a choice? So you have certain muslims forcing women to wear what they think they should wear, and people with ideas similar to yourself forcing women not to wear what they want.
Sorry but there were soo many criticisms that I am not able to give each one an answer on one post. happy to have a decent debate. As I tell my fellow muslims the dangers with regards to researching on the internet or as I call it Sheikh google, I would also implore you to not paint us all with the same brush. TO the extremists we are infidels, to others we are extremists. But I do agree with you there are many things the muslims need to do and preventing extremism in mosques and brainwashing of the youth is extremely important. SOmething the local mosques are acutely aware of and actively teaching against. Does this happen in all mosques up and down the country, a reasonable person will know that it probably is not, but I can only give you an honest answer with regards to what is happening locally. The aim being to try to convince you that we are not the same as what you see on the TV.
Thank you, RR1234, my last post relates to mkailbear1, your right in a lot you have posted, you recognise the outside problems that many Muslims face through Saudia Arabia and the Wahbi Imams, you seem to be very well aware of their influence they can inflict on your young people, the moderates in other countries do get threatened and killed if they don't obey the Radicals instructions for change, it's a pity the other Mosques don't act as yours, you need to tell every outlet you can, including the Media your Aims, I am sure it would make for good TV and quell the big doubt that Islam and it's followers want this Country for an Islamic State and Sharia Law....You need to put your Case forward....
[quote][p][bold]RR1234[/bold] wrote: Welshmen I agree with you that consanguinous marriages increase the risk of congenital defects in children. But you are confusing religion with culture. marrying cousins is not seen in muslim countrys. It was done by previous generations of muslims in this country, so to maintain their culture and identity. Rightly or wrongly that is a cultural issue not due to Islam. Again I read many times on many posts that 'the moderate muslim' is not doing anything. How can a moderate muslim influence change in other countries? It is the foriegn policies of the West that have inflammed the rapid rise of extremists. Lets not forget only months ago ISIS was fighting on the 'good side' in Syria. Iran is a 'bad guy' in Syria but only today on the radio it is being touted as 'a potential good guy' in Iraq. In terms of what muslims locally are doing. Jamia mosque in newport is the biggest mosque in Wales. It has taken 30 odd years to build. It was offered millions of pounds by Saudia Arabia years back but under the insistance that an Imam from Saudia Arabia must be installed. This was rejected due to the fear of Wahabbisim. Many sunni and shia scholars talk about the threat of their idealogy which was born and continues to be supported by the Saudis. The West need to acknowledge the threats coming from one of their 'closest allies'. WIth regards to women wearing the niqaab/headscarf. I again do agree many are forced to wear them, but what about those that wish to wear them? DO they not have a choice? So you have certain muslims forcing women to wear what they think they should wear, and people with ideas similar to yourself forcing women not to wear what they want. Sorry but there were soo many criticisms that I am not able to give each one an answer on one post. happy to have a decent debate. As I tell my fellow muslims the dangers with regards to researching on the internet or as I call it Sheikh google, I would also implore you to not paint us all with the same brush. TO the extremists we are infidels, to others we are extremists. But I do agree with you there are many things the muslims need to do and preventing extremism in mosques and brainwashing of the youth is extremely important. SOmething the local mosques are acutely aware of and actively teaching against. Does this happen in all mosques up and down the country, a reasonable person will know that it probably is not, but I can only give you an honest answer with regards to what is happening locally. The aim being to try to convince you that we are not the same as what you see on the TV.[/p][/quote]Thank you, RR1234, my last post relates to mkailbear1, your right in a lot you have posted, you recognise the outside problems that many Muslims face through Saudia Arabia and the Wahbi Imams, you seem to be very well aware of their influence they can inflict on your young people, the moderates in other countries do get threatened and killed if they don't obey the Radicals instructions for change, it's a pity the other Mosques don't act as yours, you need to tell every outlet you can, including the Media your Aims, I am sure it would make for good TV and quell the big doubt that Islam and it's followers want this Country for an Islamic State and Sharia Law....You need to put your Case forward.... welshmen
  • Score: 0

4:03pm Tue 17 Jun 14

welshmen says...

mkaibear1 wrote:
Interesting that you're still thinking I'm a Muslim. Oh well. I shall have to ask my Pastor if it's still OK for me to preach on Sunday.

1) The Quran doesn't state not to befriend unbelievers, it's a mistranslation as I understand it (one of the reasons that the Quran isn't considered to be scripture unless it's in its original language). A better translation is apparently "Let not believers take disbelievers as allies rather than believers" which is substantially different.

2) The Hadith are not scripture to the Muslims. They are teachings based around the Quran but they are just that - teachings from human beings, and your quoting of the Bukhari as Scripture which Muslims must follow are the equivalent of claiming the Pope's ex cathedra statements have the same stature as the Old and New Testaments.

3) You don't care about seeing or believing or you'd be out talking to Muslims and seeing how they live their lives. You'd be spending time with the culture and trying to help them integrate into ours.

*you* and those like you are the reason Muslims find it difficult to integrate. Your bigotry, hatred and xenophobia are why many Muslims find it easier to only spend time with their own kind.

So here's a challenge for you. Go to a mosque. I think RR1234 referred to one in Newport but there's a fair few around. Go and spend some time with Muslims, not your blinkered view of Muslims but real people. Get your head out of your conspiracy theories and off the internet and go and speak to a person.

Or are you too scared to try anything that might knock your comfortable world view? Are you too scared to even consider letting go of your hatred?
you say:
"Interesting that you're still thinking I'm a Muslim. Oh well. I shall have to ask my Pastor if it's still OK for me to preach on Sunday".
That'll be Friday....

I have done lots of work for Muslims, i know how they are, my kids have had Muslim kids over for birthday parties, the problem is with their Leaders and Imams as RR1234 posted about, teaching the wrong values. interpreting the Wahabi style of Islam that causes the Radicals to join the jihadies for Holy War, Tower Hamlets rife with corruption, similar to the Birmingham Schools Islamist threat....

This is from a Swedish report believe it or not....

"I just want to make a living but those Islamist crazies won't leave us alone. They say they support jihad, they deal drugs, they get drunk and harass women. I swear to Allah, sometimes I feel I am not living in Malmö but in Afghanistan." Mr. S., Palestinian refugee from Jordan living in Sweden.

"I am religious, but I cannot accept what the Muslim fundamentalists have been doing to this country. I have had job offers to teach at major Swedish cities, but instead chose to go to a remote town where I would not have to see those fundamentalist immigrants." Muslim College Professor, northern Sweden.

"If Islamists perceive Western countries as evil and immoral, why don't those who feel that way leave and relocate in Islamist states such as Iran and Afghanistan?

"Where is our Islamic rage against these lunatics? Our silence means that we agree to what the fundamentalists do and say.

"Can we then blame some Westerners for fearing us when we respond with hostility to their welcoming and generosity?" asks Mudar Zahram a Muslim author.

Famous for tolerance and multiculturalism, Sweden has welcomed 350,000 Muslim immigrants. On a visit to Sweden, Zahram saw that the Swedes' welcoming and tolerance has been abused by many Muslims.

These Muslim immigrants respond to Sweden's kindness by trying to Islamise their host nation.

In Uppsala, the Muslim-dominated areas are full of fundamentalists who are out of control. Even the Swedish police fear going there because many Arab and Muslim teenagers and children attack them with rocks.

A local police officer said: "Police cars that approach Arab and Muslim areas are regularly attacked with rocks. At the moment, local Swedish authorities are not sure how to keep providing public services in those areas.

"They are even considering rolling back certain state services there. It is just too risky to operate in such a hostile environment. A few residents of the Arab-Muslim areas in Uppsala describe their neighbourhoods as 'Sharia areas where Sweden's government is not welcome.'"
--------------------
-------
With stuff like this happening, the Moderates need to get up to speed and remove the bad apples....this will not happen in the UK even with you supporting it....
[quote][p][bold]mkaibear1[/bold] wrote: Interesting that you're still thinking I'm a Muslim. Oh well. I shall have to ask my Pastor if it's still OK for me to preach on Sunday. 1) The Quran doesn't state not to befriend unbelievers, it's a mistranslation as I understand it (one of the reasons that the Quran isn't considered to be scripture unless it's in its original language). A better translation is apparently "Let not believers take disbelievers as allies rather than believers" which is substantially different. 2) The Hadith are not scripture to the Muslims. They are teachings based around the Quran but they are just that - teachings from human beings, and your quoting of the Bukhari as Scripture which Muslims must follow are the equivalent of claiming the Pope's ex cathedra statements have the same stature as the Old and New Testaments. 3) You don't care about seeing or believing or you'd be out talking to Muslims and seeing how they live their lives. You'd be spending time with the culture and trying to help them integrate into ours. *you* and those like you are the reason Muslims find it difficult to integrate. Your bigotry, hatred and xenophobia are why many Muslims find it easier to only spend time with their own kind. So here's a challenge for you. Go to a mosque. I think RR1234 referred to one in Newport but there's a fair few around. Go and spend some time with Muslims, not your blinkered view of Muslims but real people. Get your head out of your conspiracy theories and off the internet and go and speak to a person. Or are you too scared to try anything that might knock your comfortable world view? Are you too scared to even consider letting go of your hatred?[/p][/quote]you say: "Interesting that you're still thinking I'm a Muslim. Oh well. I shall have to ask my Pastor if it's still OK for me to preach on Sunday". That'll be Friday.... I have done lots of work for Muslims, i know how they are, my kids have had Muslim kids over for birthday parties, the problem is with their Leaders and Imams as RR1234 posted about, teaching the wrong values. interpreting the Wahabi style of Islam that causes the Radicals to join the jihadies for Holy War, Tower Hamlets rife with corruption, similar to the Birmingham Schools Islamist threat.... This is from a Swedish report believe it or not.... "I just want to make a living but those Islamist crazies won't leave us alone. They say they support jihad, they deal drugs, they get drunk and harass women. I swear to Allah, sometimes I feel I am not living in Malmö but in Afghanistan." Mr. S., Palestinian refugee from Jordan living in Sweden. "I am religious, but I cannot accept what the Muslim fundamentalists have been doing to this country. I have had job offers to teach at major Swedish cities, but instead chose to go to a remote town where I would not have to see those fundamentalist immigrants." Muslim College Professor, northern Sweden. "If Islamists perceive Western countries as evil and immoral, why don't those who feel that way leave and relocate in Islamist states such as Iran and Afghanistan? "Where is our Islamic rage against these lunatics? Our silence means that we agree to what the fundamentalists do and say. "Can we then blame some Westerners for fearing us when we respond with hostility to their welcoming and generosity?" asks Mudar Zahram a Muslim author. Famous for tolerance and multiculturalism, Sweden has welcomed 350,000 Muslim immigrants. On a visit to Sweden, Zahram saw that the Swedes' welcoming and tolerance has been abused by many Muslims. These Muslim immigrants respond to Sweden's kindness by trying to Islamise their host nation. In Uppsala, the Muslim-dominated areas are full of fundamentalists who are out of control. Even the Swedish police fear going there because many Arab and Muslim teenagers and children attack them with rocks. A local police officer said: "Police cars that approach Arab and Muslim areas are regularly attacked with rocks. At the moment, local Swedish authorities are not sure how to keep providing public services in those areas. "They are even considering rolling back certain state services there. It is just too risky to operate in such a hostile environment. A few residents of the Arab-Muslim areas in Uppsala describe their neighbourhoods as 'Sharia areas where Sweden's government is not welcome.'" -------------------- ------- With stuff like this happening, the Moderates need to get up to speed and remove the bad apples....this will not happen in the UK even with you supporting it.... welshmen
  • Score: 0

4:11pm Tue 17 Jun 14

mkaibear1 says...

>You mean Friday

I suppose I could preach on Friday but the church would be rather empty.

>I have done lots of work for Muslims, i know how they are, my kids have had Muslim kids over for birthday parties

Right. And that's relevant to my challenge to you because?

Working for someone, having their kids round to your kids's birthday party - these do not make you friends. These do not make you challenge your world view. These do not make you think.

So I ask again - are you too scared to go out there and actually spend some quality time with people? Are you too scared to go out there and be a civilised human being? Or are you just happy to stick around throwing the bile and hatred which you have produced thus far?
>You mean Friday I suppose I could preach on Friday but the church would be rather empty. >I have done lots of work for Muslims, i know how they are, my kids have had Muslim kids over for birthday parties Right. And that's relevant to my challenge to you because? Working for someone, having their kids round to your kids's birthday party - these do not make you friends. These do not make you challenge your world view. These do not make you think. So I ask again - are you too scared to go out there and actually spend some quality time with people? Are you too scared to go out there and be a civilised human being? Or are you just happy to stick around throwing the bile and hatred which you have produced thus far? mkaibear1
  • Score: 1

4:20pm Tue 17 Jun 14

welshmen says...

mkaibear1 wrote:
>You mean Friday

I suppose I could preach on Friday but the church would be rather empty.

>I have done lots of work for Muslims, i know how they are, my kids have had Muslim kids over for birthday parties

Right. And that's relevant to my challenge to you because?

Working for someone, having their kids round to your kids's birthday party - these do not make you friends. These do not make you challenge your world view. These do not make you think.

So I ask again - are you too scared to go out there and actually spend some quality time with people? Are you too scared to go out there and be a civilised human being? Or are you just happy to stick around throwing the bile and hatred which you have produced thus far?
I'll meet you any time, then you can say your crap to my face pilgrim....
[quote][p][bold]mkaibear1[/bold] wrote: >You mean Friday I suppose I could preach on Friday but the church would be rather empty. >I have done lots of work for Muslims, i know how they are, my kids have had Muslim kids over for birthday parties Right. And that's relevant to my challenge to you because? Working for someone, having their kids round to your kids's birthday party - these do not make you friends. These do not make you challenge your world view. These do not make you think. So I ask again - are you too scared to go out there and actually spend some quality time with people? Are you too scared to go out there and be a civilised human being? Or are you just happy to stick around throwing the bile and hatred which you have produced thus far?[/p][/quote]I'll meet you any time, then you can say your crap to my face pilgrim.... welshmen
  • Score: -1

5:03pm Tue 17 Jun 14

mkaibear1 says...

>I'll meet you any time, then you can say your crap to my face pilgrim....

As I suspected. Too scared to think, to be civilised, to actually be willing to engage with others. I'm sorry for you.

I'm going to take my own advice now and SFTT. Have a good evening.
>I'll meet you any time, then you can say your crap to my face pilgrim.... As I suspected. Too scared to think, to be civilised, to actually be willing to engage with others. I'm sorry for you. I'm going to take my own advice now and SFTT. Have a good evening. mkaibear1
  • Score: 1

5:11pm Tue 17 Jun 14

RR1234 says...

you miss my point welshman but its good to see some civilised debate. most sunnis in this country do not follow wahabbism and the scholars openly speak against their idelogy. Yes this may seem as verbal rhetoric but short of taking open arms against them verbal dialogue is the only means open to us. Also not all wahabis are extremists either. There is good and bad in all of us. Where there is an opportunity for power and influence there is suffering and manipulation of beliefs that many hold sacred. It is not religion but the way we interpret the instructions given to us from a higher power (if one belives in such a power). People of many religions have abused such power. I am not a scholar but lookign at those quotatiosn you say are from the hadith or quran, Is it not saying that a white lie is acceptable in certain examples. I think you need to read the passages before or after certain quotations or understand the reasoning behind why such statements were made, in essence its best to discuss with a local imam or scholar. I could arrange a meeting quite happily. It will mean I could learn as well
you miss my point welshman but its good to see some civilised debate. most sunnis in this country do not follow wahabbism and the scholars openly speak against their idelogy. Yes this may seem as verbal rhetoric but short of taking open arms against them verbal dialogue is the only means open to us. Also not all wahabis are extremists either. There is good and bad in all of us. Where there is an opportunity for power and influence there is suffering and manipulation of beliefs that many hold sacred. It is not religion but the way we interpret the instructions given to us from a higher power (if one belives in such a power). People of many religions have abused such power. I am not a scholar but lookign at those quotatiosn you say are from the hadith or quran, Is it not saying that a white lie is acceptable in certain examples. I think you need to read the passages before or after certain quotations or understand the reasoning behind why such statements were made, in essence its best to discuss with a local imam or scholar. I could arrange a meeting quite happily. It will mean I could learn as well RR1234
  • Score: 0

7:17pm Tue 17 Jun 14

Mervyn James says...

Regardless how moderate some are, ISIS will kill those who are not fundamentalists. I really do think the Moslems are running scared in the UK of radicals here, what they can do is tell our security services who they are, then they will sort them out, there are anonymous phone lines they can use, so what is stopping them, a few imams can go too. Until the moderates are seen to be active we will all assume you aren't that's the trouble.
Regardless how moderate some are, ISIS will kill those who are not fundamentalists. I really do think the Moslems are running scared in the UK of radicals here, what they can do is tell our security services who they are, then they will sort them out, there are anonymous phone lines they can use, so what is stopping them, a few imams can go too. Until the moderates are seen to be active we will all assume you aren't that's the trouble. Mervyn James
  • Score: 0

7:36pm Tue 17 Jun 14

RR1234 says...

But that is based on the assumption we know who they are. No one is going to openly say they are fundamentalists. If you think we all sit in a mosque and discuss radical ideology then you are sadly mistaken. I do not know any fundamentalists personally
But that is based on the assumption we know who they are. No one is going to openly say they are fundamentalists. If you think we all sit in a mosque and discuss radical ideology then you are sadly mistaken. I do not know any fundamentalists personally RR1234
  • Score: -1

10:15pm Tue 17 Jun 14

jimmytheone2 says...

mkaibear1 wrote:
>You mean Friday

I suppose I could preach on Friday but the church would be rather empty.

>I have done lots of work for Muslims, i know how they are, my kids have had Muslim kids over for birthday parties

Right. And that's relevant to my challenge to you because?

Working for someone, having their kids round to your kids's birthday party - these do not make you friends. These do not make you challenge your world view. These do not make you think.

So I ask again - are you too scared to go out there and actually spend some quality time with people? Are you too scared to go out there and be a civilised human being? Or are you just happy to stick around throwing the bile and hatred which you have produced thus far?
Welshmen had the kids round - and then he eat them
[quote][p][bold]mkaibear1[/bold] wrote: >You mean Friday I suppose I could preach on Friday but the church would be rather empty. >I have done lots of work for Muslims, i know how they are, my kids have had Muslim kids over for birthday parties Right. And that's relevant to my challenge to you because? Working for someone, having their kids round to your kids's birthday party - these do not make you friends. These do not make you challenge your world view. These do not make you think. So I ask again - are you too scared to go out there and actually spend some quality time with people? Are you too scared to go out there and be a civilised human being? Or are you just happy to stick around throwing the bile and hatred which you have produced thus far?[/p][/quote]Welshmen had the kids round - and then he eat them jimmytheone2
  • Score: -1

10:18pm Tue 17 Jun 14

jimmytheone2 says...

RR1234 wrote:
you miss my point welshman but its good to see some civilised debate. most sunnis in this country do not follow wahabbism and the scholars openly speak against their idelogy. Yes this may seem as verbal rhetoric but short of taking open arms against them verbal dialogue is the only means open to us. Also not all wahabis are extremists either. There is good and bad in all of us. Where there is an opportunity for power and influence there is suffering and manipulation of beliefs that many hold sacred. It is not religion but the way we interpret the instructions given to us from a higher power (if one belives in such a power). People of many religions have abused such power. I am not a scholar but lookign at those quotatiosn you say are from the hadith or quran, Is it not saying that a white lie is acceptable in certain examples. I think you need to read the passages before or after certain quotations or understand the reasoning behind why such statements were made, in essence its best to discuss with a local imam or scholar. I could arrange a meeting quite happily. It will mean I could learn as well
Welshmen doesn't do civilised - or debate. He spouts ignorant crap. Ignore the little toad. He says he has children. Yeah, sure thing. Would you want that as your Dad. I think not.
[quote][p][bold]RR1234[/bold] wrote: you miss my point welshman but its good to see some civilised debate. most sunnis in this country do not follow wahabbism and the scholars openly speak against their idelogy. Yes this may seem as verbal rhetoric but short of taking open arms against them verbal dialogue is the only means open to us. Also not all wahabis are extremists either. There is good and bad in all of us. Where there is an opportunity for power and influence there is suffering and manipulation of beliefs that many hold sacred. It is not religion but the way we interpret the instructions given to us from a higher power (if one belives in such a power). People of many religions have abused such power. I am not a scholar but lookign at those quotatiosn you say are from the hadith or quran, Is it not saying that a white lie is acceptable in certain examples. I think you need to read the passages before or after certain quotations or understand the reasoning behind why such statements were made, in essence its best to discuss with a local imam or scholar. I could arrange a meeting quite happily. It will mean I could learn as well[/p][/quote]Welshmen doesn't do civilised - or debate. He spouts ignorant crap. Ignore the little toad. He says he has children. Yeah, sure thing. Would you want that as your Dad. I think not. jimmytheone2
  • Score: -1

11:08am Wed 18 Jun 14

welshmen says...

jimmytheone2 wrote:
RR1234 wrote:
you miss my point welshman but its good to see some civilised debate. most sunnis in this country do not follow wahabbism and the scholars openly speak against their idelogy. Yes this may seem as verbal rhetoric but short of taking open arms against them verbal dialogue is the only means open to us. Also not all wahabis are extremists either. There is good and bad in all of us. Where there is an opportunity for power and influence there is suffering and manipulation of beliefs that many hold sacred. It is not religion but the way we interpret the instructions given to us from a higher power (if one belives in such a power). People of many religions have abused such power. I am not a scholar but lookign at those quotatiosn you say are from the hadith or quran, Is it not saying that a white lie is acceptable in certain examples. I think you need to read the passages before or after certain quotations or understand the reasoning behind why such statements were made, in essence its best to discuss with a local imam or scholar. I could arrange a meeting quite happily. It will mean I could learn as well
Welshmen doesn't do civilised - or debate. He spouts ignorant crap. Ignore the little toad. He says he has children. Yeah, sure thing. Would you want that as your Dad. I think not.
jimmytheoneidiot2: gutless coward, yellow from his head to his arse, spout your mouth off on here, is that all you got coward, brave as a snake, you live in Gwent, let's see how you do face to face, let see how many words you can get out of your smart mouth before you go silent troll...
[quote][p][bold]jimmytheone2[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RR1234[/bold] wrote: you miss my point welshman but its good to see some civilised debate. most sunnis in this country do not follow wahabbism and the scholars openly speak against their idelogy. Yes this may seem as verbal rhetoric but short of taking open arms against them verbal dialogue is the only means open to us. Also not all wahabis are extremists either. There is good and bad in all of us. Where there is an opportunity for power and influence there is suffering and manipulation of beliefs that many hold sacred. It is not religion but the way we interpret the instructions given to us from a higher power (if one belives in such a power). People of many religions have abused such power. I am not a scholar but lookign at those quotatiosn you say are from the hadith or quran, Is it not saying that a white lie is acceptable in certain examples. I think you need to read the passages before or after certain quotations or understand the reasoning behind why such statements were made, in essence its best to discuss with a local imam or scholar. I could arrange a meeting quite happily. It will mean I could learn as well[/p][/quote]Welshmen doesn't do civilised - or debate. He spouts ignorant crap. Ignore the little toad. He says he has children. Yeah, sure thing. Would you want that as your Dad. I think not.[/p][/quote]jimmytheoneidiot2: gutless coward, yellow from his head to his arse, spout your mouth off on here, is that all you got coward, brave as a snake, you live in Gwent, let's see how you do face to face, let see how many words you can get out of your smart mouth before you go silent troll... welshmen
  • Score: -2

12:13pm Wed 18 Jun 14

snappersearch says...

Jimmytheone2 is right welshmen, aint he. You dont do civilised or debate just threaten like the thugs at the BNP that share the views you copy from the web. You with such radical opinions as a father, poor kids i say
Jimmytheone2 is right welshmen, aint he. You dont do civilised or debate just threaten like the thugs at the BNP that share the views you copy from the web. You with such radical opinions as a father, poor kids i say snappersearch
  • Score: -1

2:52pm Wed 18 Jun 14

RR1234 says...

I felt welshmen and I were making some headway towards a civilised debate. I dnt think personal attacks on him will help.
I felt welshmen and I were making some headway towards a civilised debate. I dnt think personal attacks on him will help. RR1234
  • Score: 0

7:40am Thu 19 Jun 14

The People's Republic of Newp says...

I'm all for a Montesquieu / De Tocqueville style emphatic division between church and state. PSE (Personal and Social Education) in schools is the perfect mechanism for encouraging young people to respect shared and differing values and customs, but no to religious education and faith schools.

Faith belongs in the church, mosque or temple, not the cabinet meeting or classroom.
I'm all for a Montesquieu / De Tocqueville style emphatic division between church and state. PSE (Personal and Social Education) in schools is the perfect mechanism for encouraging young people to respect shared and differing values and customs, but no to religious education and faith schools. Faith belongs in the church, mosque or temple, not the cabinet meeting or classroom. The People's Republic of Newp
  • Score: 1

7:45am Thu 19 Jun 14

The People's Republic of Newp says...

Mike Roland wrote:
welshmen wrote:
Now is what's happening, killing fellow Muslims in the name of their loving God, this Religion at it's worst, killing for the sake of killing, the Black Flag of Muslim Jihad fly's through out the Middle East, the same one the Radicals fly here in our Capital City London, this so called Religion just hates, it hates every one that is not of it's faith, their holy book tells them kill all non believers and this is what they do at an alarming rate, never mind how many war's were Religiously led it's happening now, thousands getting butchered in the name of Allha, a wast of life, let's hope this useless stupid not fit for purpose Government do not send British Forces ever again to a Muslim Country, let the Muslims settle their dispute's between the Shiite and Sunni tribes, they have been at it since their loving God died....
The only one spouting hate here Welshmen is you.
And as per too. You can almost taste the bile in Welshmen's utterances.

Incidentally, I even take exception to his name / avatar / identity. He has the hubris to define himself by the plural... yet I'm a Welshman and he emphatically does not speak for me.
[quote][p][bold]Mike Roland[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]welshmen[/bold] wrote: Now is what's happening, killing fellow Muslims in the name of their loving God, this Religion at it's worst, killing for the sake of killing, the Black Flag of Muslim Jihad fly's through out the Middle East, the same one the Radicals fly here in our Capital City London, this so called Religion just hates, it hates every one that is not of it's faith, their holy book tells them kill all non believers and this is what they do at an alarming rate, never mind how many war's were Religiously led it's happening now, thousands getting butchered in the name of Allha, a wast of life, let's hope this useless stupid not fit for purpose Government do not send British Forces ever again to a Muslim Country, let the Muslims settle their dispute's between the Shiite and Sunni tribes, they have been at it since their loving God died....[/p][/quote]The only one spouting hate here Welshmen is you.[/p][/quote]And as per too. You can almost taste the bile in Welshmen's utterances. Incidentally, I even take exception to his name / avatar / identity. He has the hubris to define himself by the plural... yet I'm a Welshman and he emphatically does not speak for me. The People's Republic of Newp
  • Score: -1

7:49am Thu 19 Jun 14

The People's Republic of Newp says...

welshmen wrote:
jimmytheone2 wrote:
welshmen wrote:
Now is what's happening, killing fellow Muslims in the name of their loving God, this Religion at it's worst, killing for the sake of killing, the Black Flag of Muslim Jihad fly's through out the Middle East, the same one the Radicals fly here in our Capital City London, this so called Religion just hates, it hates every one that is not of it's faith, their holy book tells them kill all non believers and this is what they do at an alarming rate, never mind how many war's were Religiously led it's happening now, thousands getting butchered in the name of Allha, a wast of life, let's hope this useless stupid not fit for purpose Government do not send British Forces ever again to a Muslim Country, let the Muslims settle their dispute's between the Shiite and Sunni tribes, they have been at it since their loving God died....
You certainly take the biscuit, don't you?
I can't believe you said "this so called religion just hates, it hates every one that is not of it's faith"
Does that ring any bells, Welshmen - sound like someone we know?
You get more idiotic by the day - you're a joke. Take a look at yourself.

I'd use the expression "pot calling the kettle black", but that would probably send you off on another racist rant.
What's racist about Religion, what's racist about telling the truth, what's racist about not wanting Immigrants flooding this Country, the word racist is used by the anti-white, used by people like you to keep every body accepting masses of foreigners, your an appeaser, an appeaser of Isalm scared stiff to say any thing, an appeaser of Immigration, scared stiff you'll be called a racist, the PC brigade have done the job on you, you will keep quite and except anything your told, unlike me, I question every thing I don't agree with, you don't....

Try and put your own input into posts, how you feel on Islam or Immigration, don't just sit there like a vulture waiting and waiting for me to post....
Punctuation man, punctuation. Use the odd full stop, your arguments might appear a little more ordered and penetrable. This stream of consciousness
[quote][p][bold]welshmen[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]jimmytheone2[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]welshmen[/bold] wrote: Now is what's happening, killing fellow Muslims in the name of their loving God, this Religion at it's worst, killing for the sake of killing, the Black Flag of Muslim Jihad fly's through out the Middle East, the same one the Radicals fly here in our Capital City London, this so called Religion just hates, it hates every one that is not of it's faith, their holy book tells them kill all non believers and this is what they do at an alarming rate, never mind how many war's were Religiously led it's happening now, thousands getting butchered in the name of Allha, a wast of life, let's hope this useless stupid not fit for purpose Government do not send British Forces ever again to a Muslim Country, let the Muslims settle their dispute's between the Shiite and Sunni tribes, they have been at it since their loving God died....[/p][/quote]You certainly take the biscuit, don't you? I can't believe you said "this so called religion just hates, it hates every one that is not of it's faith" Does that ring any bells, Welshmen - sound like someone we know? You get more idiotic by the day - you're a joke. Take a look at yourself. I'd use the expression "pot calling the kettle black", but that would probably send you off on another racist rant.[/p][/quote]What's racist about Religion, what's racist about telling the truth, what's racist about not wanting Immigrants flooding this Country, the word racist is used by the anti-white, used by people like you to keep every body accepting masses of foreigners, your an appeaser, an appeaser of Isalm scared stiff to say any thing, an appeaser of Immigration, scared stiff you'll be called a racist, the PC brigade have done the job on you, you will keep quite and except anything your told, unlike me, I question every thing I don't agree with, you don't.... Try and put your own input into posts, how you feel on Islam or Immigration, don't just sit there like a vulture waiting and waiting for me to post....[/p][/quote]Punctuation man, punctuation. Use the odd full stop, your arguments might appear a little more ordered and penetrable. This stream of consciousness The People's Republic of Newp
  • Score: -1

7:52am Thu 19 Jun 14

The People's Republic of Newp says...

welshmen wrote:
mkaibear1 wrote:
welshmen wrote:
mkaibear1 wrote:
Mike, please stop feeding the troll.
And what mosque do you get your orders from, the same as your fellow brother mike, your full of the same stuff bulls pass through their backend....
I know I shouldn't, however;

Please don't start sentences with "and", it's bad grammar.

Proper nouns should be capitalised.

The second "your" should be "you are" or "you're".

At some point if you're asking a question you might want a question mark. You may also wish to consider splitting your sentences into actual sentences rather than one long one.

Finally an ellipsis is usually three full stops - though a rather minor point.

3/10 poor effort, must try harder.
Taht's all oyur you hvae, no snsee our ability to uersdnantd iuesss taht mtaetr to the scetuiry of our cdhliern's fruurte, taht's if you konw how to do taht splmie tsak ppatgogre....
I'd prefer our children to be understanding and accommodating of those with different values, and simultaneously manage to conjugate verbs and effectively construct sentences.
[quote][p][bold]welshmen[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mkaibear1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]welshmen[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mkaibear1[/bold] wrote: Mike, please stop feeding the troll.[/p][/quote]And what mosque do you get your orders from, the same as your fellow brother mike, your full of the same stuff bulls pass through their backend....[/p][/quote]I know I shouldn't, however; Please don't start sentences with "and", it's bad grammar. Proper nouns should be capitalised. The second "your" should be "you are" or "you're". At some point if you're asking a question you might want a question mark. You may also wish to consider splitting your sentences into actual sentences rather than one long one. Finally an ellipsis is usually three full stops - though a rather minor point. 3/10 poor effort, must try harder.[/p][/quote]Taht's all oyur you hvae, no snsee our ability to uersdnantd iuesss taht mtaetr to the scetuiry of our cdhliern's fruurte, taht's if you konw how to do taht splmie tsak ppatgogre....[/p][/quote]I'd prefer our children to be understanding and accommodating of those with different values, and simultaneously manage to conjugate verbs and effectively construct sentences. The People's Republic of Newp
  • Score: 0

8:03am Thu 19 Jun 14

The People's Republic of Newp says...

The People's Republic of Newp wrote:
welshmen wrote:
mkaibear1 wrote:
welshmen wrote:
mkaibear1 wrote:
Mike, please stop feeding the troll.
And what mosque do you get your orders from, the same as your fellow brother mike, your full of the same stuff bulls pass through their backend....
I know I shouldn't, however;

Please don't start sentences with "and", it's bad grammar.

Proper nouns should be capitalised.

The second "your" should be "you are" or "you're".

At some point if you're asking a question you might want a question mark. You may also wish to consider splitting your sentences into actual sentences rather than one long one.

Finally an ellipsis is usually three full stops - though a rather minor point.

3/10 poor effort, must try harder.
Taht's all oyur you hvae, no snsee our ability to uersdnantd iuesss taht mtaetr to the scetuiry of our cdhliern's fruurte, taht's if you konw how to do taht splmie tsak ppatgogre....
I'd prefer our children to be understanding and accommodating of those with different values, and simultaneously manage to conjugate verbs and effectively construct sentences.
Apologies, that was horribly condescending of me.
[quote][p][bold]The People's Republic of Newp[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]welshmen[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mkaibear1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]welshmen[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mkaibear1[/bold] wrote: Mike, please stop feeding the troll.[/p][/quote]And what mosque do you get your orders from, the same as your fellow brother mike, your full of the same stuff bulls pass through their backend....[/p][/quote]I know I shouldn't, however; Please don't start sentences with "and", it's bad grammar. Proper nouns should be capitalised. The second "your" should be "you are" or "you're". At some point if you're asking a question you might want a question mark. You may also wish to consider splitting your sentences into actual sentences rather than one long one. Finally an ellipsis is usually three full stops - though a rather minor point. 3/10 poor effort, must try harder.[/p][/quote]Taht's all oyur you hvae, no snsee our ability to uersdnantd iuesss taht mtaetr to the scetuiry of our cdhliern's fruurte, taht's if you konw how to do taht splmie tsak ppatgogre....[/p][/quote]I'd prefer our children to be understanding and accommodating of those with different values, and simultaneously manage to conjugate verbs and effectively construct sentences.[/p][/quote]Apologies, that was horribly condescending of me. The People's Republic of Newp
  • Score: 0

10:35am Thu 19 Jun 14

Good Job No Kids says...

mkaibear1 wrote:
>in my opinion, religion is the cause of all the wars and violence in the world today and, no matter how far you go back through history, it always was.

It's a shame your opinion is factually incorrect. If you read Philip and Axelrod’s three-volume Encyclopedia of Wars (a seminal text) there are 1,763 wars that have been waged over the course of human history. Of those wars, the authors categorize 123 as being religious in nature, an astonishingly low 6.98%.
Please credit the info you have stolen to the people who researched and wrote it rather than pretend to be all knowing.

Using Google is nothing to be smug about.
[quote][p][bold]mkaibear1[/bold] wrote: >in my opinion, religion is the cause of all the wars and violence in the world today and, no matter how far you go back through history, it always was. It's a shame your opinion is factually incorrect. If you read Philip and Axelrod’s three-volume Encyclopedia of Wars (a seminal text) there are 1,763 wars that have been waged over the course of human history. Of those wars, the authors categorize 123 as being religious in nature, an astonishingly low 6.98%.[/p][/quote]Please credit the info you have stolen to the people who researched and wrote it rather than pretend to be all knowing. Using Google is nothing to be smug about. Good Job No Kids
  • Score: 0

10:52am Thu 19 Jun 14

mkaibear1 says...

Good Job No Kids wrote:
mkaibear1 wrote:
>in my opinion, religion is the cause of all the wars and violence in the world today and, no matter how far you go back through history, it always was.

It's a shame your opinion is factually incorrect. If you read Philip and Axelrod’s three-volume Encyclopedia of Wars (a seminal text) there are 1,763 wars that have been waged over the course of human history. Of those wars, the authors categorize 123 as being religious in nature, an astonishingly low 6.98%.
Please credit the info you have stolen to the people who researched and wrote it rather than pretend to be all knowing.

Using Google is nothing to be smug about.
Looking at your Argus comment history, "Good Job No Kids" I think it's a tad hypocritical to be complaining about my failure to attribute a fact (which was, strangely enough, attributed to the original authors).

Since you've only come on here to make wild and unfounded claims about my "theft" of information and have decided to make no contribution to the actual debate (unlike even "welshmen" who whilst I disagree completely with him at least has the capacity to remain approximately on topic) I'm afraid I'm going to treat you as a troll. Have a nice day.
[quote][p][bold]Good Job No Kids[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mkaibear1[/bold] wrote: >in my opinion, religion is the cause of all the wars and violence in the world today and, no matter how far you go back through history, it always was. It's a shame your opinion is factually incorrect. If you read Philip and Axelrod’s three-volume Encyclopedia of Wars (a seminal text) there are 1,763 wars that have been waged over the course of human history. Of those wars, the authors categorize 123 as being religious in nature, an astonishingly low 6.98%.[/p][/quote]Please credit the info you have stolen to the people who researched and wrote it rather than pretend to be all knowing. Using Google is nothing to be smug about.[/p][/quote]Looking at your Argus comment history, "Good Job No Kids" I think it's a tad hypocritical to be complaining about my failure to attribute a fact (which was, strangely enough, attributed to the original authors). Since you've only come on here to make wild and unfounded claims about my "theft" of information and have decided to make no contribution to the actual debate (unlike even "welshmen" who whilst I disagree completely with him at least has the capacity to remain approximately on topic) I'm afraid I'm going to treat you as a troll. Have a nice day. mkaibear1
  • Score: -1

10:58am Thu 19 Jun 14

-trigg- says...

Tak a moment to read the following accurately translated quotations from a certain religion's holy book, then ask yourself why the followers of said religion are allowed to continue to preach in this country.
***
These were the spoils which remained of the plunder taken by the fighting men: 675,000 sheep, 72,000 cattle, 61,000 donkeys, and as for persons, 32,000 young women who had had no intercourse with a man.
***
And he said “Hagar, Sarai’s slave girl, where have you come from and where are you going?” She answered, “I’m running away from Sarai, my mistress.” The angel of the Lord said to her, “Go back to your mistress and submit to ill treatment at her hands.”
***
When two men are fighting and the wife of one of them intervenes to drag her husband clear of his opponent, if she puts out her hand and catches hold of the man by his privates, you must cut off her hand and show her no mercy.
***
No man whose testicles have been crushed or whose organ has been cut off may become a member of the Assembly of God
***
Whoever utters the name of the Lord must be put to death. The whole community must stone him, whether alien or native. If he utters the name, he must be put to death.


In case you haven't guessed yet, these are all taken from the Christian bible.
Tak a moment to read the following accurately translated quotations from a certain religion's holy book, then ask yourself why the followers of said religion are allowed to continue to preach in this country. *** These were the spoils which remained of the plunder taken by the fighting men: 675,000 sheep, 72,000 cattle, 61,000 donkeys, and as for persons, 32,000 young women who had had no intercourse with a man. *** And he said “Hagar, Sarai’s slave girl, where have you come from and where are you going?” She answered, “I’m running away from Sarai, my mistress.” The angel of the Lord said to her, “Go back to your mistress and submit to ill treatment at her hands.” *** When two men are fighting and the wife of one of them intervenes to drag her husband clear of his opponent, if she puts out her hand and catches hold of the man by his privates, you must cut off her hand and show her no mercy. *** No man whose testicles have been crushed or whose organ has been cut off may become a member of the Assembly of God *** Whoever utters the name of the Lord must be put to death. The whole community must stone him, whether alien or native. If he utters the name, he must be put to death. In case you haven't guessed yet, these are all taken from the Christian bible. -trigg-
  • Score: 0

11:37am Thu 19 Jun 14

mkaibear1 says...

-trigg- wrote:
Tak a moment to read the following accurately translated quotations from a certain religion's holy book, then ask yourself why the followers of said religion are allowed to continue to preach in this country.
***
These were the spoils which remained of the plunder taken by the fighting men: 675,000 sheep, 72,000 cattle, 61,000 donkeys, and as for persons, 32,000 young women who had had no intercourse with a man.
***
And he said “Hagar, Sarai’s slave girl, where have you come from and where are you going?” She answered, “I’m running away from Sarai, my mistress.” The angel of the Lord said to her, “Go back to your mistress and submit to ill treatment at her hands.”
***
When two men are fighting and the wife of one of them intervenes to drag her husband clear of his opponent, if she puts out her hand and catches hold of the man by his privates, you must cut off her hand and show her no mercy.
***
No man whose testicles have been crushed or whose organ has been cut off may become a member of the Assembly of God
***
Whoever utters the name of the Lord must be put to death. The whole community must stone him, whether alien or native. If he utters the name, he must be put to death.


In case you haven't guessed yet, these are all taken from the Christian bible.
>Christian bible

Pentateuch, I think - they are from Deuteronomy and Leviticus I believe? (So calling them the Christian bible, whilst true, is also not the whole story).

>Plunder

Virgins were valuable and were to be protected. If you raped a virgin you were to be forced to marry her (not marriage in our sense, marriage in the "she is now your responsibility, you must look after her, treat her well, make sure she's clothed and fed - and if you don't treat her properly you can be punished by the courts" sense). Incidentally the reason it doesn't name non-virgins as plunder is because they weren't available to marry, if they were raped then the punishment for that was death for the rapist. Deuteronomy 22.

>Hagar the slave girl

Mistreated because she was sleeping with Sara's husband, it was understandable that Sara would find it difficult to deal with her. Hagar was told to go back to Sara in order to be put in a place where she would have many descendants and share in the promises to Abraham, which she did through her son Ishmael.

>Grabbing manhood

This refers to smashing someone's testicles (making someone infertile) and the basic Israelite custom of "hand for a hand, eye for an eye" doesn't really apply when you don't have testicles. It's the only example of mutilation of a different body part as a punishment in the Old Testament and it's likely due to this concept that how do you punish "fairly" when there isn't a corresponding body part?

>Can't enter into the assembly of God

This means "can't get married" - it's basically saying that if you have no genitals or they've been damaged somehow you cannot enter into the legal contract of marriage. In Israelite times there was one reason to get married and one alone - to have children - so if you're incapable of fathering children you can't get married.

>Utters the name of the LORD must be put to death.

Again a mistranslation - this should be "anyone who *blasphemes* the name of the LORD must be put to death". The Israelites were in a land surrounded by other gods whose followers would issue pronouncements like "baal says all your crops will grow this year". God doesn't work like that and didn't want the Israelites claiming things in God's name as a kind of touchstone or talisman to make themselves feel better.


This is a tad off-topic, it's not really related to teaching RE in schools at all. Can I suggest there are better forums for this kind of conversation? Carm.org or hermeneutics.stackex
change.com, for example.
[quote][p][bold]-trigg-[/bold] wrote: Tak a moment to read the following accurately translated quotations from a certain religion's holy book, then ask yourself why the followers of said religion are allowed to continue to preach in this country. *** These were the spoils which remained of the plunder taken by the fighting men: 675,000 sheep, 72,000 cattle, 61,000 donkeys, and as for persons, 32,000 young women who had had no intercourse with a man. *** And he said “Hagar, Sarai’s slave girl, where have you come from and where are you going?” She answered, “I’m running away from Sarai, my mistress.” The angel of the Lord said to her, “Go back to your mistress and submit to ill treatment at her hands.” *** When two men are fighting and the wife of one of them intervenes to drag her husband clear of his opponent, if she puts out her hand and catches hold of the man by his privates, you must cut off her hand and show her no mercy. *** No man whose testicles have been crushed or whose organ has been cut off may become a member of the Assembly of God *** Whoever utters the name of the Lord must be put to death. The whole community must stone him, whether alien or native. If he utters the name, he must be put to death. In case you haven't guessed yet, these are all taken from the Christian bible.[/p][/quote]>Christian bible Pentateuch, I think - they are from Deuteronomy and Leviticus I believe? (So calling them the Christian bible, whilst true, is also not the whole story). >Plunder Virgins were valuable and were to be protected. If you raped a virgin you were to be forced to marry her (not marriage in our sense, marriage in the "she is now your responsibility, you must look after her, treat her well, make sure she's clothed and fed - and if you don't treat her properly you can be punished by the courts" sense). Incidentally the reason it doesn't name non-virgins as plunder is because they weren't available to marry, if they were raped then the punishment for that was death for the rapist. Deuteronomy 22. >Hagar the slave girl Mistreated because she was sleeping with Sara's husband, it was understandable that Sara would find it difficult to deal with her. Hagar was told to go back to Sara in order to be put in a place where she would have many descendants and share in the promises to Abraham, which she did through her son Ishmael. >Grabbing manhood This refers to smashing someone's testicles (making someone infertile) and the basic Israelite custom of "hand for a hand, eye for an eye" doesn't really apply when you don't have testicles. It's the only example of mutilation of a different body part as a punishment in the Old Testament and it's likely due to this concept that how do you punish "fairly" when there isn't a corresponding body part? >Can't enter into the assembly of God This means "can't get married" - it's basically saying that if you have no genitals or they've been damaged somehow you cannot enter into the legal contract of marriage. In Israelite times there was one reason to get married and one alone - to have children - so if you're incapable of fathering children you can't get married. >Utters the name of the LORD must be put to death. Again a mistranslation - this should be "anyone who *blasphemes* the name of the LORD must be put to death". The Israelites were in a land surrounded by other gods whose followers would issue pronouncements like "baal says all your crops will grow this year". God doesn't work like that and didn't want the Israelites claiming things in God's name as a kind of touchstone or talisman to make themselves feel better. This is a tad off-topic, it's not really related to teaching RE in schools at all. Can I suggest there are better forums for this kind of conversation? Carm.org or hermeneutics.stackex change.com, for example. mkaibear1
  • Score: 1

12:29pm Thu 19 Jun 14

welshmen says...

-trigg- wrote:
Tak a moment to read the following accurately translated quotations from a certain religion's holy book, then ask yourself why the followers of said religion are allowed to continue to preach in this country.
***
These were the spoils which remained of the plunder taken by the fighting men: 675,000 sheep, 72,000 cattle, 61,000 donkeys, and as for persons, 32,000 young women who had had no intercourse with a man.
***
And he said “Hagar, Sarai’s slave girl, where have you come from and where are you going?” She answered, “I’m running away from Sarai, my mistress.” The angel of the Lord said to her, “Go back to your mistress and submit to ill treatment at her hands.”
***
When two men are fighting and the wife of one of them intervenes to drag her husband clear of his opponent, if she puts out her hand and catches hold of the man by his privates, you must cut off her hand and show her no mercy.
***
No man whose testicles have been crushed or whose organ has been cut off may become a member of the Assembly of God
***
Whoever utters the name of the Lord must be put to death. The whole community must stone him, whether alien or native. If he utters the name, he must be put to death.


In case you haven't guessed yet, these are all taken from the Christian bible.
The difference being in these modern times Christians have moved on, they don't do that anywhere on this planet do they?, I take your point about the original wording and interpretation of that passage in the Bible, you can compare the Qua'ran and the Bible as similar because they were written in the first centre, but that's where "similar" end's, Muslims live as close to the Qua'rans teaching's today as they can, when in a democratic country they live the modern way, but only as long as it takes for them to get parts of their Sharia Law in place, Sharia Councils, Muslim Banking, non-stunned barbaric slaughter same as the Jew's etc, taking more than one wife, changing the ("Magna Carta") one law for all, a change to the Last Will and Testament of a deceased Muslim is not as the rest of us.

When in an Islamic State Islam reverts back to the their first Century Faith, here the Muslim Leaders and Scholars, will continue to demand more Islamic ways to change into Sharia Law, the more Muslims, the more they will demand and get, I know there are Muslims in our country who live the modern way, but until the old guard are no more, the Wahhabi imams banned from our Country, then division will increase, the problem is, I don't see unity with their faith and our Democracy ever being equal, we are pro homosexual, equal rights for women, and the deal breaker for me is Muslims not marrying non Muslims, if there are not up for that, then they are Colonisers wanting a state within a state.

It's the same old argument I have on here every time the “Muslim” debate starts, until there's one Law for all, marry into our Culture, then things wont change, giving in to this Religion is not an option, our Country our Laws keep to them, fine, if your not happy with that, why live here....We don't want our Country to end up like Palestine and I am sure Muslims don't either....and that’s my opinion not any so called far left political party....
[quote][p][bold]-trigg-[/bold] wrote: Tak a moment to read the following accurately translated quotations from a certain religion's holy book, then ask yourself why the followers of said religion are allowed to continue to preach in this country. *** These were the spoils which remained of the plunder taken by the fighting men: 675,000 sheep, 72,000 cattle, 61,000 donkeys, and as for persons, 32,000 young women who had had no intercourse with a man. *** And he said “Hagar, Sarai’s slave girl, where have you come from and where are you going?” She answered, “I’m running away from Sarai, my mistress.” The angel of the Lord said to her, “Go back to your mistress and submit to ill treatment at her hands.” *** When two men are fighting and the wife of one of them intervenes to drag her husband clear of his opponent, if she puts out her hand and catches hold of the man by his privates, you must cut off her hand and show her no mercy. *** No man whose testicles have been crushed or whose organ has been cut off may become a member of the Assembly of God *** Whoever utters the name of the Lord must be put to death. The whole community must stone him, whether alien or native. If he utters the name, he must be put to death. In case you haven't guessed yet, these are all taken from the Christian bible.[/p][/quote]The difference being in these modern times Christians have moved on, they don't do that anywhere on this planet do they?, I take your point about the original wording and interpretation of that passage in the Bible, you can compare the Qua'ran and the Bible as similar because they were written in the first centre, but that's where "similar" end's, Muslims live as close to the Qua'rans teaching's today as they can, when in a democratic country they live the modern way, but only as long as it takes for them to get parts of their Sharia Law in place, Sharia Councils, Muslim Banking, non-stunned barbaric slaughter same as the Jew's etc, taking more than one wife, changing the ("Magna Carta") one law for all, a change to the Last Will and Testament of a deceased Muslim is not as the rest of us. When in an Islamic State Islam reverts back to the their first Century Faith, here the Muslim Leaders and Scholars, will continue to demand more Islamic ways to change into Sharia Law, the more Muslims, the more they will demand and get, I know there are Muslims in our country who live the modern way, but until the old guard are no more, the Wahhabi imams banned from our Country, then division will increase, the problem is, I don't see unity with their faith and our Democracy ever being equal, we are pro homosexual, equal rights for women, and the deal breaker for me is Muslims not marrying non Muslims, if there are not up for that, then they are Colonisers wanting a state within a state. It's the same old argument I have on here every time the “Muslim” debate starts, until there's one Law for all, marry into our Culture, then things wont change, giving in to this Religion is not an option, our Country our Laws keep to them, fine, if your not happy with that, why live here....We don't want our Country to end up like Palestine and I am sure Muslims don't either....and that’s my opinion not any so called far left political party.... welshmen
  • Score: 1

12:45pm Thu 19 Jun 14

-trigg- says...

The purpose of my post was to show that the sacred texts of most religions contain passages that are incompatible with modern sensibilities and that if you criticise followers of Islam because of a few carefully selected passages from the Qur'an you could just as easily do the same for other religions.

The insight into the context of the verses I highlighted was nonetheless educational
The purpose of my post was to show that the sacred texts of most religions contain passages that are incompatible with modern sensibilities and that if you criticise followers of Islam because of a few carefully selected passages from the Qur'an you could just as easily do the same for other religions. The insight into the context of the verses I highlighted was nonetheless educational -trigg-
  • Score: 0

1:37pm Thu 19 Jun 14

mkaibear1 says...

-trigg- wrote:
The purpose of my post was to show that the sacred texts of most religions contain passages that are incompatible with modern sensibilities and that if you criticise followers of Islam because of a few carefully selected passages from the Qur'an you could just as easily do the same for other religions.

The insight into the context of the verses I highlighted was nonetheless educational
Oh, ok. I see where you are coming from and yes, I'd agree with you about the fact that the passages may not be understandable in our context - though I'd extend that to say that they are always understandable when you understand the context in which they were given.
[quote][p][bold]-trigg-[/bold] wrote: The purpose of my post was to show that the sacred texts of most religions contain passages that are incompatible with modern sensibilities and that if you criticise followers of Islam because of a few carefully selected passages from the Qur'an you could just as easily do the same for other religions. The insight into the context of the verses I highlighted was nonetheless educational[/p][/quote]Oh, ok. I see where you are coming from and yes, I'd agree with you about the fact that the passages may not be understandable in our context - though I'd extend that to say that they are always understandable when you understand the context in which they were given. mkaibear1
  • Score: 0

7:16pm Thu 19 Jun 14

Mervyn James says...

RR1234 wrote:
But that is based on the assumption we know who they are. No one is going to openly say they are fundamentalists. If you think we all sit in a mosque and discuss radical ideology then you are sadly mistaken. I do not know any fundamentalists personally
Don't believe it. Radicalization is rife in the Mosques, and in faith schools, they wouldn't get a chance anywhere else, they are are using a different language to hide what they say. A number of parents must be aware their kids are being radicalized too, they won't turn them in will they ?
[quote][p][bold]RR1234[/bold] wrote: But that is based on the assumption we know who they are. No one is going to openly say they are fundamentalists. If you think we all sit in a mosque and discuss radical ideology then you are sadly mistaken. I do not know any fundamentalists personally[/p][/quote]Don't believe it. Radicalization is rife in the Mosques, and in faith schools, they wouldn't get a chance anywhere else, they are are using a different language to hide what they say. A number of parents must be aware their kids are being radicalized too, they won't turn them in will they ? Mervyn James
  • Score: 3

8:02pm Thu 19 Jun 14

varteg1 says...

mkaibear1 wrote:
So I point out that it wasn't just Jews who were killed by the Nazis and you have extended that to claim I've stated that no Jews were killed by the Nazis.

That's a positive triumph of straw-manning right there.

Let's try this again: just because Jews were killed by the Nazis doesn't make it an anti-religious atrocity. The atrocity was against multiple groups on ethnic, homophobic and xenophobic grounds. Claiming it's a religious atrocity is specious at best.
I will repeat, had the Nazis not taken the Jews to task, there is compelling evidence that this country would have made accommodation with the Germany under the Nazi party. Hence Chamberlains visit from which he returned with his bit of paper.

I accept that the extermination of the Jews was a political act, made on the basis that it was International Jewry that had caused the collapse of the German economy after WW1, but the Jewry of Europe were mainly poor working people, even though, as in all stratums of society, they had their millionaires.

quote from the book 6 Million Crucifixions.....

The Holocaust started gradually. Centuries of ingrained theological anti-Judaism led to racial anti-semitism, which resulted in the desire to eliminate the Jews from within Christian lands.

The exterminationist aspect of the Holocaust started in earnest in 1941, after the German invasion of the Soviet Union, when the Germans instituted the systematic process of murdering all Jews under their jurisdiction first by shooting and then by gassing them..

Please now tell me again how there was not a religious background to the Nazi philosophy, which directly led the vanguard into war by the opposing Allies.

Has there been no anti Semitic philosophy, there probably would not have bee a second world war.

Therefore religion layed a most important part in it.
[quote][p][bold]mkaibear1[/bold] wrote: So I point out that it wasn't just Jews who were killed by the Nazis and you have extended that to claim I've stated that no Jews were killed by the Nazis. That's a positive triumph of straw-manning right there. Let's try this again: just because Jews were killed by the Nazis doesn't make it an anti-religious atrocity. The atrocity was against multiple groups on ethnic, homophobic and xenophobic grounds. Claiming it's a religious atrocity is specious at best.[/p][/quote]I will repeat, had the Nazis not taken the Jews to task, there is compelling evidence that this country would have made accommodation with the Germany under the Nazi party. Hence Chamberlains visit from which he returned with his bit of paper. I accept that the extermination of the Jews was a political act, made on the basis that it was International Jewry that had caused the collapse of the German economy after WW1, but the Jewry of Europe were mainly poor working people, even though, as in all stratums of society, they had their millionaires. quote from the book 6 Million Crucifixions..... The Holocaust started gradually. Centuries of ingrained theological anti-Judaism led to racial anti-semitism, which resulted in the desire to eliminate the Jews from within Christian lands. The exterminationist aspect of the Holocaust started in earnest in 1941, after the German invasion of the Soviet Union, when the Germans instituted the systematic process of murdering all Jews under their jurisdiction first by shooting and then by gassing them.. Please now tell me again how there was not a religious background to the Nazi philosophy, which directly led the vanguard into war by the opposing Allies. Has there been no anti Semitic philosophy, there probably would not have bee a second world war. Therefore religion layed a most important part in it. varteg1
  • Score: 2

9:33pm Thu 19 Jun 14

mkaibear1 says...

No, politics and a convenient scapegoat played a most important part. The Jews were merely the first nationality in the firing line largely for the financial reasons you mentioned. How do you explain the Roma, the disabled and the homosexuals being targeted if it was a primarily religious atrocity?
No, politics and a convenient scapegoat played a most important part. The Jews were merely the first nationality in the firing line largely for the financial reasons you mentioned. How do you explain the Roma, the disabled and the homosexuals being targeted if it was a primarily religious atrocity? mkaibear1
  • Score: -1

11:10pm Thu 19 Jun 14

welshmen says...

This is an email I had from a chap in Birmingham a couple of week's ago, also with an attached email:

Big Scandal unfolding here. In Birmingham, we now have five or six state schools going into 'Special Measures' because extreme Muslim views are being, not only taught but enforced: Girls seated at the back of the class; segregated from boys and excluded from many activities because of their gender. Girls excluded from tennis because the teacher is male. State funds for education used to send boys only on an 'educational' trip to Saudi Arabia.

Extremist 'Trojan Horse' plot to take over School Governorship has been found, Head Teachers forced out and gagged by confidence clauses attached to their severance pay. Two Secretaries of State - the Home Office and the Dept of Education now locking horns in an argument about who has allowed this to happen. (In my view, neither is responsible; it's this bloody Socialist PC obsession with 'Diversity' that's driven all objections underground for too many years, branded as 'racist') Prime Minister Cameron taking charge to sort out the mess. Good luck to him!

Of course, Birmingham is predominantly populated by Muslim immigrants now, as are many of our Northern cities and their Local Councils are similarly manned so it should have been seen coming a long time ago but we are constantly accused of racism if we are white and dare to object.

Not any longer, though. The United Kingdom Independence Party caused an electoral earthquake in the European/Local Elections last month and although their message is predominantly aimed at getting us out of Europe and is heavily driven by mass immigration from Eastern Europe it has sparked a democratic revolution. Politicians have been shaken by the widespread strength of feeling. The British are beginning to demand their country back and with it, their culture too, loud and clear - thus Muslim extremism is now also under the spotlight as not only a security threat but a threat to our National values and institutions.

Watch this space next year when we have a General Election coming up in May!

Read attached email:

A German's View on Islam - worth reading

This is by far the best explanation of the Muslim terrorist situation I have ever read. His references to past history are accurate and clear. Not long, easy to understand, and well worth the read. The author of this is Dr. Emanuel Tanya, a well-known and well-respected psychiatrist. A man, whose family was German aristocracy prior to World War II, owned a number of large industries and estates.

When asked how many German people were true Nazis, the answer he gave can guide our attitude toward fanaticism. 'Very few people were true Nazis,' he said, 'but many enjoyed the return of German pride, and many more were too busy to care. I was one of those who just thought the Nazis were a bunch of fools. So, the majority just sat back and let it all happen. Then, before we knew it, they owned us, and we had lost control, and the end of the world had come.’‘My family lost everything. I ended up in a concentration camp and the Allies destroyed my factories.'

We are told again and again by 'experts' and 'talking heads' that Islam is a religion of peace and that the vast majority of Muslims just want to live in peace. Although this unqualified assertion may be true, it is entirely irrelevant. It is meaningless fluff meant to make us feel better, and meant to somehow diminish the spectre of fanatics rampaging across the globe in the name of Islam.

The fact is that the fanatics rule Islam at this moment in history. It is the fanatics who march. It is the fanatics who wage any one of 50 shooting wars worldwide. It is the fanatics who systematically slaughter Christian or tribal groups throughout Africa and are gradually taking over the entire continent in an Islamic wave. It is the fanatics who bomb, behead, murder, or honour-kill. It is the fanatics who take over mosque after mosque. It is the fanatics who zealously spread the stoning and hanging of rape victims and homosexuals. It is the fanatics who teach their young to kill and to become suicide bombers.’

The hard, quantifiable fact is that the peaceful majority, the silent majority is cowed and extraneous. Communist Russia was comprised of Russians who just wanted to live in peace, yet the Russian Communists were responsible for the murder of about 20 million people.
The peaceful majority were irrelevant. China's huge population was peaceful as well, but Chinese Communists managed to kill a staggering 70 million people.

The average Japanese individual prior to World War II was not a warmongering sadist. Yet, Japan murdered and slaughtered its way across South East Asia in an orgy of killing that included the systematic murder of 12 million Chinese civilians; most killed by sword, shovel, and bayonet. And who can forget Rwanda, which collapsed into butchery? Could it not be said that the majority of Rwandans were 'peace loving'?

History lessons are often incredibly simple and blunt, yet for all our powers of reason, we often miss the most basic and uncomplicated of points: peace-loving Muslims have been made irrelevant by their silence. Peace-loving Muslims will become our enemy if they don't speak up, because like my friend from Germany, they will awaken one day and find that the fanatics own them, and the end of their world will have begun.

Peace-loving Germans, Japanese, Chinese, Russians, Rwandans, Serbs, Afghans, Iraqis, Palestinians, Somalis, Nigerians, Algerians, and many others have died because the peaceful majority did not speak up until it was too late.’

Now Islamic prayers have been introduced in Toronto and other public schools in Ontario, and, yes, in Ottawa, too, while the Lord's Prayer was removed (due to being so offensive?). The Islamic way may be peaceful for the time being in our country until the fanatics move in.

In Australia, and indeed in many countries around the world, many of the most commonly consumed food items have the halal emblem on them. Just look at the back of some of the most popular chocolate bars, and at other food items in your local supermarket. Food on aircraft have the halal emblem just to appease the privileged minority who are now rapidly expanding within the nation's shores.

In the U.K, the Muslim communities refuse to integrate and there are now dozens of "no-go" zones within major cities across the country that the police force dare not intrude upon. Sharia law prevails there, because the Muslim community in those areas refuse to acknowledge British law.

As for us who watch it all unfold, we must pay attention to the only group that counts - the fanatics who threaten our way of life.
This is an email I had from a chap in Birmingham a couple of week's ago, also with an attached email: Big Scandal unfolding here. In Birmingham, we now have five or six state schools going into 'Special Measures' because extreme Muslim views are being, not only taught but enforced: Girls seated at the back of the class; segregated from boys and excluded from many activities because of their gender. Girls excluded from tennis because the teacher is male. State funds for education used to send boys only on an 'educational' trip to Saudi Arabia. Extremist 'Trojan Horse' plot to take over School Governorship has been found, Head Teachers forced out and gagged by confidence clauses attached to their severance pay. Two Secretaries of State - the Home Office and the Dept of Education now locking horns in an argument about who has allowed this to happen. (In my view, neither is responsible; it's this bloody Socialist PC obsession with 'Diversity' that's driven all objections underground for too many years, branded as 'racist') Prime Minister Cameron taking charge to sort out the mess. Good luck to him! Of course, Birmingham is predominantly populated by Muslim immigrants now, as are many of our Northern cities and their Local Councils are similarly manned so it should have been seen coming a long time ago but we are constantly accused of racism if we are white and dare to object. Not any longer, though. The United Kingdom Independence Party caused an electoral earthquake in the European/Local Elections last month and although their message is predominantly aimed at getting us out of Europe and is heavily driven by mass immigration from Eastern Europe it has sparked a democratic revolution. Politicians have been shaken by the widespread strength of feeling. The British are beginning to demand their country back and with it, their culture too, loud and clear - thus Muslim extremism is now also under the spotlight as not only a security threat but a threat to our National values and institutions. Watch this space next year when we have a General Election coming up in May! Read attached email: A German's View on Islam - worth reading This is by far the best explanation of the Muslim terrorist situation I have ever read. His references to past history are accurate and clear. Not long, easy to understand, and well worth the read. The author of this is Dr. Emanuel Tanya, a well-known and well-respected psychiatrist. A man, whose family was German aristocracy prior to World War II, owned a number of large industries and estates. When asked how many German people were true Nazis, the answer he gave can guide our attitude toward fanaticism. 'Very few people were true Nazis,' he said, 'but many enjoyed the return of German pride, and many more were too busy to care. I was one of those who just thought the Nazis were a bunch of fools. So, the majority just sat back and let it all happen. Then, before we knew it, they owned us, and we had lost control, and the end of the world had come.’‘My family lost everything. I ended up in a concentration camp and the Allies destroyed my factories.' We are told again and again by 'experts' and 'talking heads' that Islam is a religion of peace and that the vast majority of Muslims just want to live in peace. Although this unqualified assertion may be true, it is entirely irrelevant. It is meaningless fluff meant to make us feel better, and meant to somehow diminish the spectre of fanatics rampaging across the globe in the name of Islam. The fact is that the fanatics rule Islam at this moment in history. It is the fanatics who march. It is the fanatics who wage any one of 50 shooting wars worldwide. It is the fanatics who systematically slaughter Christian or tribal groups throughout Africa and are gradually taking over the entire continent in an Islamic wave. It is the fanatics who bomb, behead, murder, or honour-kill. It is the fanatics who take over mosque after mosque. It is the fanatics who zealously spread the stoning and hanging of rape victims and homosexuals. It is the fanatics who teach their young to kill and to become suicide bombers.’ The hard, quantifiable fact is that the peaceful majority, the silent majority is cowed and extraneous. Communist Russia was comprised of Russians who just wanted to live in peace, yet the Russian Communists were responsible for the murder of about 20 million people. The peaceful majority were irrelevant. China's huge population was peaceful as well, but Chinese Communists managed to kill a staggering 70 million people. The average Japanese individual prior to World War II was not a warmongering sadist. Yet, Japan murdered and slaughtered its way across South East Asia in an orgy of killing that included the systematic murder of 12 million Chinese civilians; most killed by sword, shovel, and bayonet. And who can forget Rwanda, which collapsed into butchery? Could it not be said that the majority of Rwandans were 'peace loving'? History lessons are often incredibly simple and blunt, yet for all our powers of reason, we often miss the most basic and uncomplicated of points: peace-loving Muslims have been made irrelevant by their silence. Peace-loving Muslims will become our enemy if they don't speak up, because like my friend from Germany, they will awaken one day and find that the fanatics own them, and the end of their world will have begun. Peace-loving Germans, Japanese, Chinese, Russians, Rwandans, Serbs, Afghans, Iraqis, Palestinians, Somalis, Nigerians, Algerians, and many others have died because the peaceful majority did not speak up until it was too late.’ Now Islamic prayers have been introduced in Toronto and other public schools in Ontario, and, yes, in Ottawa, too, while the Lord's Prayer was removed (due to being so offensive?). The Islamic way may be peaceful for the time being in our country until the fanatics move in. In Australia, and indeed in many countries around the world, many of the most commonly consumed food items have the halal emblem on them. Just look at the back of some of the most popular chocolate bars, and at other food items in your local supermarket. Food on aircraft have the halal emblem just to appease the privileged minority who are now rapidly expanding within the nation's shores. In the U.K, the Muslim communities refuse to integrate and there are now dozens of "no-go" zones within major cities across the country that the police force dare not intrude upon. Sharia law prevails there, because the Muslim community in those areas refuse to acknowledge British law. As for us who watch it all unfold, we must pay attention to the only group that counts - the fanatics who threaten our way of life. welshmen
  • Score: 2

1:08pm Fri 20 Jun 14

RR1234 says...

Mervyn I would be extremely careful in making accusations. Like I have said I do not know any fundamentalists, so If you do not believe me then that is your problem. Like I said before I do not make generalised sweeping statements, so I can only comment on what I see in my local mosque. You are all welcoem to come, sit with us, engage in dialogue and understad our fears and worries about the fundamentalist movement, as well as our fears with regards to the backlash from people who hold your views.
Welshmen I agree fanatics are taking over. I also agree that muslims need to stand up to the extremists. However I do feel that dialogue is a two way street.
Mervyn I would be extremely careful in making accusations. Like I have said I do not know any fundamentalists, so If you do not believe me then that is your problem. Like I said before I do not make generalised sweeping statements, so I can only comment on what I see in my local mosque. You are all welcoem to come, sit with us, engage in dialogue and understad our fears and worries about the fundamentalist movement, as well as our fears with regards to the backlash from people who hold your views. Welshmen I agree fanatics are taking over. I also agree that muslims need to stand up to the extremists. However I do feel that dialogue is a two way street. RR1234
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