Save the NHS

First published in Letters

PEOPLE in this country are rightly proud of the NHS, and many are angry at its creeping privatisation now being introduced.

The service will be further threatened if a trade deal currently being negotiated with the US goes ahead.

The EU-US trade deal aims to open both health care and education up to competition by American companies.

Under the deal, a future UK government could also find itself being sued for billions of pounds if it attempts to reverse NHS privatisation measures.

The government of Slovakia has already been sued for reversing the privatisation of its own health system.

Public health and education are essential for a fair society, and we must not let the government sign away our rights to these services.

There is a growing campaign against the deal, organised by a variety of groups including the World Development Movement, and I hope readers will join me in supporting it.

Pauline Charlesworth Lower Coed Cae Nantyglo

Comments (14)

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11:56am Fri 22 Aug 14

-trigg- says...

Many of us are indeed proud and grateful for the services provided through the NHS.

However, many will also accept that the service as it stands is unsustainable accoutning as it does for 9% of GDP and 18% of all government spending. There is a clear need for costs to be reduced wherever possible and if a private supplier is able to provvide the same service at a lower cost then the NHS should take advantage of this opportunity. It isn't about privatisation, its about getting the best value for taxpayers without reducing the level of service they have come to expect from the NHS.
Many of us are indeed proud and grateful for the services provided through the NHS. However, many will also accept that the service as it stands is unsustainable accoutning as it does for 9% of GDP and 18% of all government spending. There is a clear need for costs to be reduced wherever possible and if a private supplier is able to provvide the same service at a lower cost then the NHS should take advantage of this opportunity. It isn't about privatisation, its about getting the best value for taxpayers without reducing the level of service they have come to expect from the NHS. -trigg-
  • Score: -1

4:02pm Fri 22 Aug 14

landyman3030 says...

-trigg- wrote:
Many of us are indeed proud and grateful for the services provided through the NHS.

However, many will also accept that the service as it stands is unsustainable accoutning as it does for 9% of GDP and 18% of all government spending. There is a clear need for costs to be reduced wherever possible and if a private supplier is able to provvide the same service at a lower cost then the NHS should take advantage of this opportunity. It isn't about privatisation, its about getting the best value for taxpayers without reducing the level of service they have come to expect from the NHS.
Best level of care possible and value for money for the taxpayer is sometimes a tricky road to navigate but it is one which we must do our best to follow. The first thing that could be done is training up the correct level of nurses and doing away with agency and bank nursing where the NHS hands over gazillions to private health care agencies when the NHS should be employing and investing in their own people.
[quote][p][bold]-trigg-[/bold] wrote: Many of us are indeed proud and grateful for the services provided through the NHS. However, many will also accept that the service as it stands is unsustainable accoutning as it does for 9% of GDP and 18% of all government spending. There is a clear need for costs to be reduced wherever possible and if a private supplier is able to provvide the same service at a lower cost then the NHS should take advantage of this opportunity. It isn't about privatisation, its about getting the best value for taxpayers without reducing the level of service they have come to expect from the NHS.[/p][/quote]Best level of care possible and value for money for the taxpayer is sometimes a tricky road to navigate but it is one which we must do our best to follow. The first thing that could be done is training up the correct level of nurses and doing away with agency and bank nursing where the NHS hands over gazillions to private health care agencies when the NHS should be employing and investing in their own people. landyman3030
  • Score: 11

9:44am Sat 23 Aug 14

brian819@btinternet.com says...

9% of GDP and 18% of all government spending? As much as that?
Listen, while i accept that the NHS needs to be streamlined, if that's the word I want, and that money must not be wasted as might have happened in the past, but at the end of the day, it is our, the people's NHS and that's the way we want it.
This composite government, Tory led, has interlaced economy with ideology to such a degree that we, the general public, find it nearly impossible to define one from the other.
I suppose that private industry has a place in its running the business but this place should always be kept to a minimum, and under control.
9% of GDP and 18% of all government spending? As much as that? Listen, while i accept that the NHS needs to be streamlined, if that's the word I want, and that money must not be wasted as might have happened in the past, but at the end of the day, it is our, the people's NHS and that's the way we want it. This composite government, Tory led, has interlaced economy with ideology to such a degree that we, the general public, find it nearly impossible to define one from the other. I suppose that private industry has a place in its running the business but this place should always be kept to a minimum, and under control. brian819@btinternet.com
  • Score: -2

4:29pm Sat 23 Aug 14

Newportg says...

Like a lot of people I have good reason to be grateful for the services the NHS provides. Twelve years ago I was diagnosed as diabetic. Until that time I rarely set foot in my Doctor’s surgery, but now I have to go for regular checks. From the first visit, when I was diagnosed, the care I have received has been first class. To believe yourself to be fully fit one day (I’d been using a gym 3 days a week for the last 13 years) and the next to be told you have a chronic condition is horrifying. But the care and education I received from the diabetic team helped me to cope with the condition and control it.

The NHS is a jewel in the crown of our country. It’s undeniable that it is one of the largest drains on our economy but, it is also undeniable that it is worth it. Our hospitals are already top heavy with management and understaffed with the people it needs most, doctors and nurses. The last thing it needs is more privatisation.

It’s OUR NHS, but if we’re not careful we could lose it!
Like a lot of people I have good reason to be grateful for the services the NHS provides. Twelve years ago I was diagnosed as diabetic. Until that time I rarely set foot in my Doctor’s surgery, but now I have to go for regular checks. From the first visit, when I was diagnosed, the care I have received has been first class. To believe yourself to be fully fit one day (I’d been using a gym 3 days a week for the last 13 years) and the next to be told you have a chronic condition is horrifying. But the care and education I received from the diabetic team helped me to cope with the condition and control it. The NHS is a jewel in the crown of our country. It’s undeniable that it is one of the largest drains on our economy but, it is also undeniable that it is worth it. Our hospitals are already top heavy with management and understaffed with the people it needs most, doctors and nurses. The last thing it needs is more privatisation. It’s OUR NHS, but if we’re not careful we could lose it! Newportg
  • Score: 7

11:58am Sun 24 Aug 14

999NHSTREDEGAR says...

https://www.facebook
.com/Tredegar999NHSb
irthplace?ref=hl The people of Tredegar Birthplace of the NHS & Nye Bevan WILL MARCH Sept 6th in Support of the NHS !

PLEASE join us :) 11.00 am Nye Bevan Stones !
https://www.facebook .com/Tredegar999NHSb irthplace?ref=hl The people of Tredegar Birthplace of the NHS & Nye Bevan WILL MARCH Sept 6th in Support of the NHS ! PLEASE join us :) 11.00 am Nye Bevan Stones ! 999NHSTREDEGAR
  • Score: 1

11:59am Sun 24 Aug 14

999NHSTREDEGAR says...

https://www.facebook
.com/Tredegar999NHSb
irthplace?ref=hl The people of Tredegar Birthplace of the NHS & Nye Bevan WILL MARCH Sept 6th in Support of the NHS !

PLEASE join us :) 11.00 am Nye Bevan Stones !
https://www.facebook .com/Tredegar999NHSb irthplace?ref=hl The people of Tredegar Birthplace of the NHS & Nye Bevan WILL MARCH Sept 6th in Support of the NHS ! PLEASE join us :) 11.00 am Nye Bevan Stones ! 999NHSTREDEGAR
  • Score: 2

3:42pm Sun 24 Aug 14

keithbob says...

as much as i believe we have no equal to our beloved N.H.S. in any other country,the immigrants also know that and are coming over in their droves to abuse the system for free handouts!,this put a major burden on our hospitals and surgeries.and hence the ridiculous amount of time we have to wait for ambulances due to to the shortage of trollies beds etc.
as much as i believe we have no equal to our beloved N.H.S. in any other country,the immigrants also know that and are coming over in their droves to abuse the system for free handouts!,this put a major burden on our hospitals and surgeries.and hence the ridiculous amount of time we have to wait for ambulances due to to the shortage of trollies beds etc. keithbob
  • Score: 3

11:05am Mon 25 Aug 14

Howie' says...

-trigg- wrote:
Many of us are indeed proud and grateful for the services provided through the NHS.

However, many will also accept that the service as it stands is unsustainable accoutning as it does for 9% of GDP and 18% of all government spending. There is a clear need for costs to be reduced wherever possible and if a private supplier is able to provvide the same service at a lower cost then the NHS should take advantage of this opportunity. It isn't about privatisation, its about getting the best value for taxpayers without reducing the level of service they have come to expect from the NHS.
It's actually about 9.5% of GDP.
http://www.england.n
hs.uk/wp-content/upl
oads/2013/12/cta-tec
h-Annex.pdf

Here's some more interesting facts that you will not read in the Daily Mail or any other right wing tabloid that like to have negative story's about the NHS to negate any objections we would have against creeping privatisation of the NHS e.g 'Cancer care in the NHS could be privatised for the first time in the health service's biggest ever outsourcing of services worth over £1.2bn' http://www.theguardi
an.com/uk-news/2014/
jul/02/cancer-care-n
hs-outsourcing-ccgs-
unison-virgin

NHS staff

In 2013 the NHS employed 147,087 doctors, 371,777 qualified nursing staff, 154,109 qualified scientific, therapeutic and technical staff and 36,360 managers.The number of doctors employed by the NHS has increased by an annual average of 3.0 per cent since 2003.
There were 37,843 additional doctors employed in the NHS in 2013 compared to 2003.
There were 23,531 more NHS nurses in 2013 compared to ten years earlier. While the total employed in 2013 was an increase on the previous year, it remains below the number in 2010.
2,166 more practice nurses were employed by GPs in 2013 than ten years earlier.
There were 13,974 more qualified allied health professionals and 3,968 more health scientists employed in the NHS in 2013 compared to 2003. However the number within the latter group has declined for each of the past four years.
50.6 per cent of NHS employees are professionally qualified clinical staff.
Since 2003 the number of professionally qualified clinical staff within the NHS has risen by 16.1 per cent. This rise includes an increase in doctors of 34.4 per cent; a rise in the number of nurses of 6.8 per cent; and 17.4 per cent more qualified ambulance staff.
Medical school intake rose from 5,062 in 1997/98 to 8,035 in 2011/12 - a rise of 58.7 per cent.

Management


Managers and senior managers accounted for 2.66 per cent of the 1.364 million staff employed by the NHS in 2013.
The number of managers and senior managers has declined in each of the past four years and stood at 36,360 in 2013, the lowest total since 2003.
In 2008/09 the management costs of the NHS had fallen from 5.0 per cent in 1997/98 to 3.0 per cent.

International comparisons

In comparison with the healthcare systems of ten other countries (Australia, Canada, France, Germany, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland and USA) the NHS was found to be the most impressive overall by the Commonwealth Fund in 2014.
The NHS was rated as the best system in terms of efficiency, effective care, safe care, coordinated care, patient-centred care and cost-related problems. It was also ranked second for equity.
However in the category of healthy lives (10th), the NHS fared less well.
Health expenditure in the UK was 9.4 per cent of GDP in 2011. This compares to 17.7 per cent in the USA, 11.9 per cent in the Netherlands, 11.6 per cent in France, 11.3 per cent in Germany, 11.2 per cent in Canada, 10.9 per cent in Denmark, 10.3 per cent in New Zealand, 9.3 per cent in Spain and 9.2 per cent in Italy.
The UK had 2.8 physicians per 1,000 people in 2011, compared to 4.1 in Spain, 4.1 in Italy, 3.8 in Germany, 3.3 in France, 3.3 in Australia, 2.6 in New Zealand, 2.5 in the USA and 2.4 in Canada.
The UK had 3.0 hospital beds per 1,000 people in 2011, compared to 8.3 in Germany, 6.4 in France, 3.4 in Italy, 3.2 in Spain and 2.8 in New Zealand.
Average length of stay for all causes in the UK was 7.3 days in 2011. This compares to 9.3 in Germany, 8.3 in New Zealand, 7.7 in Italy, 6.7 in Spain, 5.6 in France and 5.3 in the Netherlands.

http://www.nhsconfed
.org/resources/key-s
tatistics-on-the-nhs
[quote][p][bold]-trigg-[/bold] wrote: Many of us are indeed proud and grateful for the services provided through the NHS. However, many will also accept that the service as it stands is unsustainable accoutning as it does for 9% of GDP and 18% of all government spending. There is a clear need for costs to be reduced wherever possible and if a private supplier is able to provvide the same service at a lower cost then the NHS should take advantage of this opportunity. It isn't about privatisation, its about getting the best value for taxpayers without reducing the level of service they have come to expect from the NHS.[/p][/quote]It's actually about 9.5% of GDP. http://www.england.n hs.uk/wp-content/upl oads/2013/12/cta-tec h-Annex.pdf Here's some more interesting facts that you will not read in the Daily Mail or any other right wing tabloid that like to have negative story's about the NHS to negate any objections we would have against creeping privatisation of the NHS e.g 'Cancer care in the NHS could be privatised for the first time in the health service's biggest ever outsourcing of services worth over £1.2bn' http://www.theguardi an.com/uk-news/2014/ jul/02/cancer-care-n hs-outsourcing-ccgs- unison-virgin NHS staff In 2013 the NHS employed 147,087 doctors, 371,777 qualified nursing staff, 154,109 qualified scientific, therapeutic and technical staff and 36,360 managers.The number of doctors employed by the NHS has increased by an annual average of 3.0 per cent since 2003. There were 37,843 additional doctors employed in the NHS in 2013 compared to 2003. There were 23,531 more NHS nurses in 2013 compared to ten years earlier. While the total employed in 2013 was an increase on the previous year, it remains below the number in 2010. 2,166 more practice nurses were employed by GPs in 2013 than ten years earlier. There were 13,974 more qualified allied health professionals and 3,968 more health scientists employed in the NHS in 2013 compared to 2003. However the number within the latter group has declined for each of the past four years. 50.6 per cent of NHS employees are professionally qualified clinical staff. Since 2003 the number of professionally qualified clinical staff within the NHS has risen by 16.1 per cent. This rise includes an increase in doctors of 34.4 per cent; a rise in the number of nurses of 6.8 per cent; and 17.4 per cent more qualified ambulance staff. Medical school intake rose from 5,062 in 1997/98 to 8,035 in 2011/12 - a rise of 58.7 per cent. Management Managers and senior managers accounted for 2.66 per cent of the 1.364 million staff employed by the NHS in 2013. The number of managers and senior managers has declined in each of the past four years and stood at 36,360 in 2013, the lowest total since 2003. In 2008/09 the management costs of the NHS had fallen from 5.0 per cent in 1997/98 to 3.0 per cent. International comparisons In comparison with the healthcare systems of ten other countries (Australia, Canada, France, Germany, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland and USA) the NHS was found to be the most impressive overall by the Commonwealth Fund in 2014. The NHS was rated as the best system in terms of efficiency, effective care, safe care, coordinated care, patient-centred care and cost-related problems. It was also ranked second for equity. However in the category of healthy lives (10th), the NHS fared less well. Health expenditure in the UK was 9.4 per cent of GDP in 2011. This compares to 17.7 per cent in the USA, 11.9 per cent in the Netherlands, 11.6 per cent in France, 11.3 per cent in Germany, 11.2 per cent in Canada, 10.9 per cent in Denmark, 10.3 per cent in New Zealand, 9.3 per cent in Spain and 9.2 per cent in Italy. The UK had 2.8 physicians per 1,000 people in 2011, compared to 4.1 in Spain, 4.1 in Italy, 3.8 in Germany, 3.3 in France, 3.3 in Australia, 2.6 in New Zealand, 2.5 in the USA and 2.4 in Canada. The UK had 3.0 hospital beds per 1,000 people in 2011, compared to 8.3 in Germany, 6.4 in France, 3.4 in Italy, 3.2 in Spain and 2.8 in New Zealand. Average length of stay for all causes in the UK was 7.3 days in 2011. This compares to 9.3 in Germany, 8.3 in New Zealand, 7.7 in Italy, 6.7 in Spain, 5.6 in France and 5.3 in the Netherlands. http://www.nhsconfed .org/resources/key-s tatistics-on-the-nhs Howie'
  • Score: 4

1:58pm Mon 25 Aug 14

welshmen says...

You wonder why care in our Hospitals have dropped, Carers, Doctors, and Nurses that cant speak English to the standard that old folk and the public can understand, foreign doctors who come here from Countries that have no NHS yet they are willing to leave their Country that trained them and come here for a better life and more money, shame on them.

Whey can't our Government train our own unemployed to work in the NHS, we have millions out of work, since Immigration has risen over the years our NHS has fallen, a combination of free care for foreigners and foreign staff, some unable to communicate with the patients in their care....It's slowly strangling the NHS...

Figures obtained by the Guardian have shown the most complete picture yet of the reliance by the NHS and community health services in England (not Wales) on foreign nationals, with people from more than 200 countries employed...

The statistics, produced by the Health and Social Care Information Centre (HSCIC), show that 11% of all staff for whom data was available and who work for the NHS and in community health services are not British.

The proportion of foreign nationals increases for professionally qualified clinical staff (14%) and even more so for doctors (26%), prompting the British Medical Association (BMA) to observe that without the contribution of non-British staff, "many NHS services would struggle to provide effective care to their patients".

Tim Finch, from the Institute for Public Policy Research think-tank, said the statistics held lessons for immigration policy.

"People are still attracted to work in the NHS," he said. "Without them we'd clearly be short – it would be very hard to replace that number overnight.

"If the single thread of immigration policy is just to get the overall figure down by any means, you've got to look at the consequences of that on the NHS."

Finch said that while the NHS benefited from foreign nationals, health services in the countries they had left could suffer.

He added that as the economic fortunes of some countries providing large numbers of staff to the NHS improved, people might become less inclined to leave, potentially creating problems for Britain, albeit not in the near future.

Finch downplayed the prospect of foreign nationals preventing British people getting a job in health services, saying that under the government's points system for non-EU migrants, workers would not gain entry unless there was a vacant post they were needed to fill.

EU countries, English-speaking countries, those with ties to Britain through the Commonwealth, countries targeted by the NHS for employees and those that have experienced wars all figure prominently in the list of those supplying the most employees.

India provided the highest number after Britain, with 18,424 out of a total of 1,052,404 workers whose identity was known.

India also provided the highest number of professionally qualified clinical staff, doctors and consultants, after Britain. The number of Indian consultants was 2,708, 7% of the total whose nationality was known.

GPs are not included in the HSCIC figures because they are not employed by the NHS.

The Philippines provided the highest number of qualified nursing, midwifery and health visiting staff after Britain, with 8,094 out of a total of 309,529 for whom data was available, reflecting the fact that there was a recruitment drive in the country under Tony Blair's government to attract people to such posts.

The Philippines also provides the third highest number of NHS staff overall with 12,744.

Ireland had the fourth highest number of staff in the NHS, followed by Poland, Nigeria, Zimbabwe, Portugal, Pakistan, Spain and Germany.

A BMA spokeswoman said: "Overseas doctors have for many years made a valuable and important contribution to the NHS, especially in key services where there has been a historic shortage of UK-trained doctors.

"This includes consultant posts in emergency care, haematology and old-age psychiatry. Without the support of these doctors many NHS services would struggle to provide effective care to their patients."

She said the figures reflected the fact that for many years the NHS actively encouraged overseas doctors to move to the UK.

The spokeswoman added that doctors were subject to strict criteria set by the GMC and that if they were from outside the European Economic Area they had to take additional language tests to ensure that they spoke English to a good standard.

While the figures help illustrate the contribution of migrants, they do not paint the whole picture, as many will have taken British nationality since arriving.

Nationality statistics of NHS staff have never been published but figures on where doctors qualified are made available by the General Medical Council, which include GPs in its data.

Mirroring the HSCIC statistics, India is the second most common country of qualification after Britain, according to the council, which says 25,122 doctors registered in the UK were trained in the world's second most populous nation.

The HSCIC figures are provisional as of September last year. The nationalities of 136,624 staff were not recorded and, due to use of different staff record systems, data was not available from two NHS trusts, Moorfields Eye Hospital NHS foundation trust and Chesterfield Royal Hospital foundation trust.....

When we are bombarded with babies and young children on our TV dying because they can't get medical treatment or even fresh water in most of the countries the NHS get their staff from is inhuman, how can you leave your Country of birth and learning and let the weakest suffer for your own financial gratification....

136,624 staff were not recorded!!! some staff now have British citizenship!!!, this is a sinking NHS, allowed to happen through foreign recruitment distortion of the true figures to go Private, all these excuses by the far left Media for us to except the inevitable, private payment medical treatment....
You wonder why care in our Hospitals have dropped, Carers, Doctors, and Nurses that cant speak English to the standard that old folk and the public can understand, foreign doctors who come here from Countries that have no NHS yet they are willing to leave their Country that trained them and come here for a better life and more money, shame on them. Whey can't our Government train our own unemployed to work in the NHS, we have millions out of work, since Immigration has risen over the years our NHS has fallen, a combination of free care for foreigners and foreign staff, some unable to communicate with the patients in their care....It's slowly strangling the NHS... Figures obtained by the Guardian have shown the most complete picture yet of the reliance by the NHS and community health services in England (not Wales) on foreign nationals, with people from more than 200 countries employed... The statistics, produced by the Health and Social Care Information Centre (HSCIC), show that 11% of all staff for whom data was available and who work for the NHS and in community health services are not British. The proportion of foreign nationals increases for professionally qualified clinical staff (14%) and even more so for doctors (26%), prompting the British Medical Association (BMA) to observe that without the contribution of non-British staff, "many NHS services would struggle to provide effective care to their patients". Tim Finch, from the Institute for Public Policy Research think-tank, said the statistics held lessons for immigration policy. "People are still attracted to work in the NHS," he said. "Without them we'd clearly be short – it would be very hard to replace that number overnight. "If the single thread of immigration policy is just to get the overall figure down by any means, you've got to look at the consequences of that on the NHS." Finch said that while the NHS benefited from foreign nationals, health services in the countries they had left could suffer. He added that as the economic fortunes of some countries providing large numbers of staff to the NHS improved, people might become less inclined to leave, potentially creating problems for Britain, albeit not in the near future. Finch downplayed the prospect of foreign nationals preventing British people getting a job in health services, saying that under the government's points system for non-EU migrants, workers would not gain entry unless there was a vacant post they were needed to fill. EU countries, English-speaking countries, those with ties to Britain through the Commonwealth, countries targeted by the NHS for employees and those that have experienced wars all figure prominently in the list of those supplying the most employees. India provided the highest number after Britain, with 18,424 out of a total of 1,052,404 workers whose identity was known. India also provided the highest number of professionally qualified clinical staff, doctors and consultants, after Britain. The number of Indian consultants was 2,708, 7% of the total whose nationality was known. GPs are not included in the HSCIC figures because they are not employed by the NHS. The Philippines provided the highest number of qualified nursing, midwifery and health visiting staff after Britain, with 8,094 out of a total of 309,529 for whom data was available, reflecting the fact that there was a recruitment drive in the country under Tony Blair's government to attract people to such posts. The Philippines also provides the third highest number of NHS staff overall with 12,744. Ireland had the fourth highest number of staff in the NHS, followed by Poland, Nigeria, Zimbabwe, Portugal, Pakistan, Spain and Germany. A BMA spokeswoman said: "Overseas doctors have for many years made a valuable and important contribution to the NHS, especially in key services where there has been a historic shortage of UK-trained doctors. "This includes consultant posts in emergency care, haematology and old-age psychiatry. Without the support of these doctors many NHS services would struggle to provide effective care to their patients." She said the figures reflected the fact that for many years the NHS actively encouraged overseas doctors to move to the UK. The spokeswoman added that doctors were subject to strict criteria set by the GMC and that if they were from outside the European Economic Area they had to take additional language tests to ensure that they spoke English to a good standard. While the figures help illustrate the contribution of migrants, they do not paint the whole picture, as many will have taken British nationality since arriving. Nationality statistics of NHS staff have never been published but figures on where doctors qualified are made available by the General Medical Council, which include GPs in its data. Mirroring the HSCIC statistics, India is the second most common country of qualification after Britain, according to the council, which says 25,122 doctors registered in the UK were trained in the world's second most populous nation. The HSCIC figures are provisional as of September last year. The nationalities of 136,624 staff were not recorded and, due to use of different staff record systems, data was not available from two NHS trusts, Moorfields Eye Hospital NHS foundation trust and Chesterfield Royal Hospital foundation trust..... When we are bombarded with babies and young children on our TV dying because they can't get medical treatment or even fresh water in most of the countries the NHS get their staff from is inhuman, how can you leave your Country of birth and learning and let the weakest suffer for your own financial gratification.... 136,624 staff were not recorded!!! some staff now have British citizenship!!!, this is a sinking NHS, allowed to happen through foreign recruitment distortion of the true figures to go Private, all these excuses by the far left Media for us to except the inevitable, private payment medical treatment.... welshmen
  • Score: 1

7:56pm Mon 25 Aug 14

Mervyn James says...

I'd love to save the NHS, but I'd want access to use it first !
I'd love to save the NHS, but I'd want access to use it first ! Mervyn James
  • Score: 0

9:51am Tue 26 Aug 14

Howie' says...

Nice one welshmen, you turn a conversation about the creeping privatisation of the NHS into a bigoted rant on migration and foreigners.

'136,624 staff were not recorded!!! some staff now have British citizenship!!!, this is a sinking NHS' LOL. You obviously never read the stats that I put up did you. In comparison to the vast majority of health services in the Western world the NHS are doing well which is not what the Tory's want you to believe as they pursue an agenda of backdoor privatisation. Something you don't seem to care about welshmen.

Not only do you not read my posts before commenting on them it appears that you don't even read your own 'cut and paste rants' because you left this little gem in there...............
.......'Finch downplayed the prospect of foreign nationals preventing British people getting a job in health services, saying that under the government's points system for non-EU migrants, workers would not gain entry unless there was a vacant post they were needed to fill.
'A BMA spokeswoman said: "Overseas doctors have for many years made a valuable and important contribution to the NHS, especially in key services where there has been a historic shortage of UK-trained doctors'........hey it's your post welshie not mine!

How can we trust the validity of your posts 'Welshboy' when you don't even read them yourself.
Nice one welshmen, you turn a conversation about the creeping privatisation of the NHS into a bigoted rant on migration and foreigners. '136,624 staff were not recorded!!! some staff now have British citizenship!!!, this is a sinking NHS' LOL. You obviously never read the stats that I put up did you. In comparison to the vast majority of health services in the Western world the NHS are doing well which is not what the Tory's want you to believe as they pursue an agenda of backdoor privatisation. Something you don't seem to care about welshmen. Not only do you not read my posts before commenting on them it appears that you don't even read your own 'cut and paste rants' because you left this little gem in there............... .......'Finch downplayed the prospect of foreign nationals preventing British people getting a job in health services, saying that under the government's points system for non-EU migrants, workers would not gain entry unless there was a vacant post they were needed to fill. 'A BMA spokeswoman said: "Overseas doctors have for many years made a valuable and important contribution to the NHS, especially in key services where there has been a historic shortage of UK-trained doctors'........hey it's your post welshie not mine! How can we trust the validity of your posts 'Welshboy' when you don't even read them yourself. Howie'
  • Score: -1

11:58am Tue 26 Aug 14

welshmen says...

Howie' wrote:
Nice one welshmen, you turn a conversation about the creeping privatisation of the NHS into a bigoted rant on migration and foreigners.

'136,624 staff were not recorded!!! some staff now have British citizenship!!!, this is a sinking NHS' LOL. You obviously never read the stats that I put up did you. In comparison to the vast majority of health services in the Western world the NHS are doing well which is not what the Tory's want you to believe as they pursue an agenda of backdoor privatisation. Something you don't seem to care about welshmen.

Not only do you not read my posts before commenting on them it appears that you don't even read your own 'cut and paste rants' because you left this little gem in there...............

.......'Finch downplayed the prospect of foreign nationals preventing British people getting a job in health services, saying that under the government's points system for non-EU migrants, workers would not gain entry unless there was a vacant post they were needed to fill.
'A BMA spokeswoman said: "Overseas doctors have for many years made a valuable and important contribution to the NHS, especially in key services where there has been a historic shortage of UK-trained doctors'........hey it's your post welshie not mine!

How can we trust the validity of your posts 'Welshboy' when you don't even read them yourself.
The little gem as you put it is another leftest ploy to fool the British people, not the already brainwashed limy guardian flag wavers, the points system is another scam to import more foreigners, all your posts are, are Stats stats and stats, not what's happing on the ground, take your rose tinted blinkers off and you might see what the rest of us see, even you said once quote " I dint like all the Immigration but I say it differently" un-quote, no your just scared of being labelled a racist frightened of the PC posters and losing your membership of the far right Guardian rag.

You still want Doctors and nurses from Countries where we are bombarded with babies and young children on our TV dying because they can't get medical treatment or even fresh water in most of the countries the NHS get their staff from, how can they leave their Country of birth and learning and let the weakest suffer for their own financial gratification....and howie, agrees they should leave these children without Doctors and nurses to make sure howie and his family can get their treatment for their superficial ailments, "Finch down Played" you keep believing the **** and we'll keep seeing the truth....
[quote][p][bold]Howie'[/bold] wrote: Nice one welshmen, you turn a conversation about the creeping privatisation of the NHS into a bigoted rant on migration and foreigners. '136,624 staff were not recorded!!! some staff now have British citizenship!!!, this is a sinking NHS' LOL. You obviously never read the stats that I put up did you. In comparison to the vast majority of health services in the Western world the NHS are doing well which is not what the Tory's want you to believe as they pursue an agenda of backdoor privatisation. Something you don't seem to care about welshmen. Not only do you not read my posts before commenting on them it appears that you don't even read your own 'cut and paste rants' because you left this little gem in there............... .......'Finch downplayed the prospect of foreign nationals preventing British people getting a job in health services, saying that under the government's points system for non-EU migrants, workers would not gain entry unless there was a vacant post they were needed to fill. 'A BMA spokeswoman said: "Overseas doctors have for many years made a valuable and important contribution to the NHS, especially in key services where there has been a historic shortage of UK-trained doctors'........hey it's your post welshie not mine! How can we trust the validity of your posts 'Welshboy' when you don't even read them yourself.[/p][/quote]The little gem as you put it is another leftest ploy to fool the British people, not the already brainwashed limy guardian flag wavers, the points system is another scam to import more foreigners, all your posts are, are Stats stats and stats, not what's happing on the ground, take your rose tinted blinkers off and you might see what the rest of us see, even you said once quote " I dint like all the Immigration but I say it differently" un-quote, no your just scared of being labelled a racist frightened of the PC posters and losing your membership of the far right Guardian rag. You still want Doctors and nurses from Countries where we are bombarded with babies and young children on our TV dying because they can't get medical treatment or even fresh water in most of the countries the NHS get their staff from, how can they leave their Country of birth and learning and let the weakest suffer for their own financial gratification....and howie, agrees they should leave these children without Doctors and nurses to make sure howie and his family can get their treatment for their superficial ailments, "Finch down Played" you keep believing the **** and we'll keep seeing the truth.... welshmen
  • Score: -3

12:11pm Tue 26 Aug 14

Stevenboy says...

The letter is headed 'Save the NHS'. We aren't ever going to do that without having a serious debate about it and stop treating it as some untouchable sacred cow. Firstly, pretending that something of that size can't be made more efficient is naive to the point of bizarre. Secondly, believing that ploughing ever more money into it without ever questioning what the benefit of that spending is is reckless. The last government did that only to discover that a lot of that money was swallowed up in administration and the people who carry that out.
The letter is headed 'Save the NHS'. We aren't ever going to do that without having a serious debate about it and stop treating it as some untouchable sacred cow. Firstly, pretending that something of that size can't be made more efficient is naive to the point of bizarre. Secondly, believing that ploughing ever more money into it without ever questioning what the benefit of that spending is is reckless. The last government did that only to discover that a lot of that money was swallowed up in administration and the people who carry that out. Stevenboy
  • Score: -1

7:17pm Tue 26 Aug 14

welshmen says...

One Billion into the NHS from the Foreign Aid Budget of £12.6 Billion and all's fine with our NHS....also the £millions owed by EU Nationals for NHS treatment at our expense.....
One Billion into the NHS from the Foreign Aid Budget of £12.6 Billion and all's fine with our NHS....also the £millions owed by EU Nationals for NHS treatment at our expense..... welshmen
  • Score: 0

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