Dragons forwards facing an inquest

9:20am Monday 8th October 2012 in Sport Photograph of the Author By Iwan Davies

NEWPORT Gwent Dragons captain Lewis Evans admits he and his forwards will be asking “serious questions” of themselves after Friday night’s toothless performance against the Scarlets.

That tame display by their pack saw them dominated by a home eight at Parc y Scarlets who took them to the cleaners.

It laid the foundation for a comfortable 24-13 victory for the Scarlets, despite the Dragons looking at one stage as if they might pull off a remarkable comeback.

But that would have glossed over some alarming deficiencies in the visitors’ forward play, particularly against a Scarlets scrum often destroyed by quality opposition.

If that wasn’t bad enough, the Dragons lineout went to pieces in the second half once Hugh Gustafson, a converted loosehead prop, took over the hooking duties from Steve Jones.

Back rower Evans admitted their performance at the coal face just wasn’t good enough, a trip to face Wasps for their opening Amlin Challenge Cup clash looming on Saturday.

“Our forwards did get outdone in the set piece and it’s incredibly frustrating because we did work hard on it,” he said.

“We just need to start learning some tough lessons and when we go into our analysis on Monday – we need to ask some serious questions of ourselves.”

The game was played in foul conditions as the rain swept down in Llanelli, making for slippery conditions that the Dragons, apart from an encouraging start, never got to grips with.

Dragons head coach Darren Edwards agreed that their forward effort and tactical game were found wanting.

“Rugby doesn’t change however many years it has been going and on a night like that you need a good set piece platform and a good kicking game,” he said.

“You really need those two aspects and they let us down on the night.”

Comments(39)

Gareth says...
10:06am Mon 8 Oct 12

“We just need to start learning some tough lessons / we need to ask some serious questions of ourselves.”

Phew, and there was me expecting some meaningless rhetoric of the 'same-old-same-old' variety.

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Doberman1 says...
10:20am Mon 8 Oct 12

We have limited ability, accepted, what we should have is proffesionalism which we do not. The coach needs to be changed to someone who can organise, motivate and deliver effort and performances. How much longer do we put up with DE , he has not progressed us one inch since taking over, without change we will continue to surrender meekly to average teams, the fans will not turn up, the region will collapse.

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Dai the Milk says...
11:50am Mon 8 Oct 12

Eight years ago I predicted that this set-up would collapse within ten years because it was formed by means of deception with a fraudulent petition. It was also, like the Blues down the road, never inclusive. Most of both sides' home grown players come from the areas which they have deliberately disenfranchised. The biggest snub possible. There are no crowds at either set-up and they are both failing miserably on the field. They are both clubs sides dressed up as 'regions' and as Abe Lincoln said 'you can't fool all the people all the time'. I have two years left for my prediction to become reality. We shall see. Before the stand-aloners bark at me, I am all for a truly representative, inclusive region but this is not that. The clock continues to tick.

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b3talover says...
11:57am Mon 8 Oct 12

"Rugby doesn’t change however many years it has been going" - Oh dear...

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newport2012 says...
12:45pm Mon 8 Oct 12

DE needs to be replaced!! how can Lewis Evans have been handed the captaincy?? A player who is still developing and a squad player at best!! just shows how clueless DE and the coaching set up are!! When the forwards are so bad why cant Tom Brown get a game with his bulk, ball carrying ability and agression even if we have to switch the back 3 around? This is the worst pack of forwards i have seen in my 15 years over RP. No skill, no agression and no pride!!

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newport2012 says...
12:49pm Mon 8 Oct 12

....other than toby who showed glimpses but we cannot win games with 1 player in 8 producing!

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Linejudge says...
1:06pm Mon 8 Oct 12

Thats it blame the coaching staff !! Here we go again!
Decisions are mainly made on the pitch, by captains with advice from experienced players and those of us who play rugby or have played rugby know this.
Clear issues with the pack, so dont spend time trying to push the Scarlets around we wont win that battle, get the ball in and straight out ..get the back line running at them,decsion should of been made there and then.
Jones kicking out of hand disgracefull, stop him doing it..Captains job, nip it in the bud straight away pass the responsibility to someone else.
The TMO requests were out of our hands and the boys were let down by the officials 7 points Scarlets....Coaching staff not to blame!
Evans pulls a player back gets sent off and rightly so, STUPID, what happens we replace the srcum Half and leave the wing exposed TRY Scarlets......not coahes fault !
This is about the captain /players taking the responsibility ON THE PITCH...we have a back line capable of scoring tries against anyone as Evans and Hughes proved, so get the ball from the pack to these guys ASAP ..players decsion there and then .....
I do have a suggestion for the coaches , Jones replaced at number 10 by Dan Evans,Prydie full back , Smith / Hughes partnership maintained, bulid on that and lets get up the table.

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newport2012 says...
1:39pm Mon 8 Oct 12

Linejdge- in any sport the buck stops with the head coach!! agree the players need to take responsibility but the team has no structure and is going backwards fast!! dont diagree with your comments about a captain however a captain lewis evans is not!! who picked the captain again the head coach!! so surely the coaches must take responsibility for some of your comments???

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newport2012 says...
1:40pm Mon 8 Oct 12

Linejudge- in any sport the buck stops with the head coach!! agree the players need to take responsibility but the team has no structure and is going backwards fast!! dont diagree with your comments about a captain however a captain lewis evans is not!! who picked the captain again the head coach!! so surely the coaches must take responsibility for some of your comments???

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newport2012 says...
1:48pm Mon 8 Oct 12

and who also failed to strengthen the front row even tho we have been crying out for a decent hooker and props for years?? again the coach or coaches!!! Any rugby player will know without a forward pack we have no chance!!

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kalwales@hotmail.com says...
1:55pm Mon 8 Oct 12

What a Pile of Rubbish, correct me if im wrong but prior to the game the message was "The Region Forwards up for Scrum Battle" , biggest pile of Squash i have heard in ages, one day you Devoted Fans will realise your being taken for a ride by the Region and until you all start standfing up to them they will continue to use your Devoted Committment and Loyalty to their advantge, by making False Promises EVERY SEASON !

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Robert Shillabeer says...
2:11pm Mon 8 Oct 12

Kalwales you are obviously not a Dragons fan that is obvious from your postings so why not go away and let the real fans discuss issues properly. Evans is not real captain as stated and with the injuries the Dragons have at the moment are putting out what is really the second string side. The first Scarle'ts try should never have been given which gave them seven points start on a filthy night and the match winning try came after the yellow card which was to say the least was a result of a stupid shirt grab and fully deserved. I have sent my views of the game management to the ref but not had an acknowledgement yet and I suppose I won't get one either because he has seen the replay and realised he messed it up. Hope he will respond and explain why he thought the crowd were better than his touch judge who indicated the ball was touched by a Scarlet before going into touch, living in hope but not holding my breath.

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Doberman1 says...
2:23pm Mon 8 Oct 12

Linejudge wrote:
Thats it blame the coaching staff !! Here we go again!
Decisions are mainly made on the pitch, by captains with advice from experienced players and those of us who play rugby or have played rugby know this.
Clear issues with the pack, so dont spend time trying to push the Scarlets around we wont win that battle, get the ball in and straight out ..get the back line running at them,decsion should of been made there and then.
Jones kicking out of hand disgracefull, stop him doing it..Captains job, nip it in the bud straight away pass the responsibility to someone else.
The TMO requests were out of our hands and the boys were let down by the officials 7 points Scarlets....Coaching staff not to blame!
Evans pulls a player back gets sent off and rightly so, STUPID, what happens we replace the srcum Half and leave the wing exposed TRY Scarlets......not coahes fault !
This is about the captain /players taking the responsibility ON THE PITCH...we have a back line capable of scoring tries against anyone as Evans and Hughes proved, so get the ball from the pack to these guys ASAP ..players decsion there and then .....
I do have a suggestion for the coaches , Jones replaced at number 10 by Dan Evans,Prydie full back , Smith / Hughes partnership maintained, bulid on that and lets get up the table.
Don't disagree with some of your points line judge but when players get it wrong or do not perform who's job is it to sort it? How long do we have to accept this standard for? Has it ever been any better under DE, no!
As with Robert your loyalty is commending however reality is that he is out of his depth and should have been replaced ages ago. You may disagree but with someone like Kingsley Jones at the helm me thinks we would get better performances and levels of professionalism than we get now.......we certainly could not get any worse?!

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Linejudge says...
2:35pm Mon 8 Oct 12

There is and always will be "Talk up" prior to matches and there is a responsibility for the coaches to do as much as they can with the budget, injuries and knowledge of our feeder teams that they have, to get the best players into the Dragons.

You then play the best team and you coach that team your perceived ideas based on all of the information that you have to hand, motivate the team and once they are running over the whitewash on match day, mainly, the decisons rest with the Captain / Players.
Even if the coaches pass on information to the team via the water stops, the team have to respond to it and make regular assessments and decisions to ensure that its working, if not change the decisions, its completely fluid.......
14 of the Scarlet points came from bad TMO and a stupid yellow card !

Not the coaches fault !

So lets get behind the coaching team rather than slagging them off.

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Robert Shillabeer says...
2:50pm Mon 8 Oct 12

Linejudge your right a stupid thing to do at a crutial time got yellow carded for it, no one to balme except the player, coaches don't train players to get yellow or red cards. The TMO got it VERY wrong but no response yet or even expected from the ref on two issues the touched ball which the crowd over ruled rather than the touch judge who indicated correctly for the throw in and the obvious penalty which ended up as a try. Mathematics prove that when a ball hits the upright and rebounds it comes back into the field of play not continue behind the try line bouncing about twenty yards away in the centre of the in goal area, bad judgement bad result put the Dragons well behind the game. They came back very well to within a score of taking the lead but stupidity changed it with the yellow card and gaping holes in defence that created. Change the team but with who, so many players crocked it is out of the question for some but hopefully one or two will be back for the next Rabo game in a couple of weeks time. Forget the Amlin as the players available at the moment will really struggle against the big boys I'm afraid.

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Oddjob says...
3:11pm Mon 8 Oct 12

NEWPORT Gwent Dragons captain Lewis Evans admits he and his forwards will be asking “serious questions” of themselves.

This is the usual guff spouted after a Dragons game.

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Monster Munch McCoy says...
3:50pm Mon 8 Oct 12

I must admit that is the worst argument I have heard. Apparently, It is not the coaches fault!!
The coaches that pick the players, train the players in tactic and skills, give tactics and game plan and motivate the players.
If you want to blame the players for everything you may as well sack all the coaches and let the player fail by themselves.

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East Newport Dave says...
4:05pm Mon 8 Oct 12

Irrespective of the refereeing mistake, let us not forget how poorly the Dragons played. I cannot see ant positives at the moment. Even in adversity most coaches are able to motivate their players and get extra out of them. Clearly, morale is poor in the camp which is not surprising if the coaching and direction is poor. Edwards needs to be shown the door. He is way out of his depth. So too is Beale nicknamed 'Bonker' not because of his sexual prowess, but because he is , yes, bonkers! What kind of a professional set up is that?

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tap says...
4:28pm Mon 8 Oct 12

What a shambolic and now embarassing experiment the Dragons have become. When will everyone at Rodney Parade realise that this team and the set-up at Rodney Parade is now a laughing stock.It is the runt of the litter and should be put down. Forming the regions was supposed to concentrate the playing talent in fewer teams and enable them to compete at a European level. there has been no sign of this since the regions were formed, and the Dragons for gawds sake can't even qualify for the Heineken Cup. What a shambles!!!

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the dork says...
5:13pm Mon 8 Oct 12

Not Happy then

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Robert Shillabeer says...
5:24pm Mon 8 Oct 12

Lots of nick names used on this site, how about real names and were you live so we can actually see. Where you all live. I'll star, my name is Robert Shillabeer and I live in Caldicot, part of the Dragons region. Waiting to hear from you all.

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SWBorderer says...
5:54pm Mon 8 Oct 12

Robert Shillabeer wrote:
Lots of nick names used on this site, how about real names and were you live so we can actually see. Where you all live. I'll star, my name is Robert Shillabeer and I live in Caldicot, part of the Dragons region. Waiting to hear from you all.
Well Robert, my name is Dave Jones and I live in Lincolnshire although originally from Chepstow (founder member of the WRU).
I commend your loyalty and agree with much that you say but even you must agree that the front row has been a problem at the Dragons for many years now and nothing has been done to redress the problem, that has to be laid at the door of the coach and management.
I have been a lifelong supporter at Rodney Parade, my first game was 1957, and it saddens me greatly to see the standard of rugby being played there at present.
I do believe that apart from the front row we have good enough players to produce far better results than at present but not with the current coaching staff.

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Robert Shillabeer says...
6:57pm Mon 8 Oct 12

Hi Dave, good to be able to use your real name. Chepstow lad eh, Newport were also a founder club just like Pontypool. I live about a two minute walk from Caldicot rfc. The Dragons have not had a good front three you say, Lloyd Burns wasn't bad he did play for Wales as first choice so that's an indication unless you say he was the best of a bad bunch but that's taking it a bit far don't you agree? It's easy to blame the management and coaches who are unable to respond publicly so remain an easy target.

You remain the only one to come out (meant in the nicest way and no ref to any other orientation) and reveal your real name, so thanks for that. Anyone else likely to do so, like waiting for the ref to respond I won't hold my breath.

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SWBorderer says...
7:09pm Mon 8 Oct 12

You will only get a response from Nigel if you tell him how wonderful he is.
I was not criticizing Lloyd, who was developing nicely, but you know as well as I do the problems have been with the props for a long time. I believe Price may well develop into a decent loose head but Way has serious problems with his technique and I haven't seen anything to write home about in the others.
We have wasted a lot of money on below average players in recent seasons and the failure to address the situation with the props has let down the whole side.

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Robert Shillabeer says...
7:31pm Mon 8 Oct 12

Nigel is the only good ref in Wales, my view and there are lots of other views who won't agree, but that's freedom of speech for you. Have you read his book? Very good read although the end is a bit odd and abrupt. He had it hard, started as a school caretaker before going full time as a ref, he has my respect even if I don't agree with all his referee decisions.

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Doberman1 says...
9:18pm Mon 8 Oct 12

Robert Shillabeer wrote:
Lots of nick names used on this site, how about real names and were you live so we can actually see. Where you all live. I'll star, my name is Robert Shillabeer and I live in Caldicot, part of the Dragons region. Waiting to hear from you all.
If people wish to remain anonymous Robert that is their right. Elderly people for example feel nervous enough in todays society without offering names and locations, perhaps you should think about that before you try flushing people out into the open? Stick to the rugby please.

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kalwales@hotmail.com says...
10:47pm Mon 8 Oct 12

so i see the usual "blame the referee is out again" all i have to say to you all that criticise a referee is "why dont you show us all how it is done??" i was once a devoted and loyal fan of your region but after those behidn the scenes screwed me over and messed me about and ttreated me like crap t i have lost my respect for any of themand also i can clearly see you fans are being taken as mugs, u will never get investment in your region whilst them behind the scenes continue to play if for themselves and not the fans , and before you say "what did / do i do for the region" i used to Do charity work, and promote the region for FREE, i referee sometimes 5 games a week YES Tthats right 5 plus my usual appointments via the WRU but not just in the 1 eyed cocoon i am aroudn the region in Ponty, Usk, Blaneau, Nelson Bargoed NHSOB, Pill etc just to name a few, I do not have 1 single ounce of respect or admiration for any of those behind the scenes and the management staff infact i would go as far and say Hatred towards some of them, You region dont liek the truth and thats why they sit there and copy and paste my posts and email them to me thats how much they care about sorting out your region, one day you fans will see how much the region are taking you for mugs and that new euro shirt?? it lookslike somebody has been sick and printed it on material

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Keith Barnett says...
11:20pm Mon 8 Oct 12

Don't believe a word you say Kal

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Euwan Usami says...
11:34pm Mon 8 Oct 12

Linejudge wrote:
Thats it blame the coaching staff !! Here we go again!
Decisions are mainly made on the pitch, by captains with advice from experienced players and those of us who play rugby or have played rugby know this.
Clear issues with the pack, so dont spend time trying to push the Scarlets around we wont win that battle, get the ball in and straight out ..get the back line running at them,decsion should of been made there and then.
Jones kicking out of hand disgracefull, stop him doing it..Captains job, nip it in the bud straight away pass the responsibility to someone else.
The TMO requests were out of our hands and the boys were let down by the officials 7 points Scarlets....Coaching staff not to blame!
Evans pulls a player back gets sent off and rightly so, STUPID, what happens we replace the srcum Half and leave the wing exposed TRY Scarlets......not coahes fault !
This is about the captain /players taking the responsibility ON THE PITCH...we have a back line capable of scoring tries against anyone as Evans and Hughes proved, so get the ball from the pack to these guys ASAP ..players decsion there and then .....
I do have a suggestion for the coaches , Jones replaced at number 10 by Dan Evans,Prydie full back , Smith / Hughes partnership maintained, bulid on that and lets get up the table.
In fairness the issue is the front five and contact area.We have talent in the back line but no platform for them to play off. We cant rely on 9 penalties and three drop goals every game to get wins. Or too many sides with naive defences. We need go forward. Even against Zebra we were mullered up front. Until this is addressed the problem will remain. We need to stop hiding behind excuses. The score flattered us. We were outplayed in every area and performed like rank amateurs. T

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Robert Shillabeer says...
12:23am Tue 9 Oct 12

As for using real names have the courage to own the comments you post, right or wrong is down to personal view point, but own your comments. No one can blame you for true beliefs and must respect them. The only way to do that is to stand up and be open not hide behind a nick name.

Look at any team they have problems of one sort or another, and they work to solve them and no doubt have critics among ther fans, but the Dragons seem to have more critics than fans these days.

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Doberman1 says...
7:43am Tue 9 Oct 12

Robert Shillabeer wrote:
As for using real names have the courage to own the comments you post, right or wrong is down to personal view point, but own your comments. No one can blame you for true beliefs and must respect them. The only way to do that is to stand up and be open not hide behind a nick name.

Look at any team they have problems of one sort or another, and they work to solve them and no doubt have critics among ther fans, but the Dragons seem to have more critics than fans these days.
People's personal security is more important than satisfying your mysterious quest for real names, show some consideration.
The Dragons have critics because they are (effectively) bottom of the league, with a clueless out of his depth head coach. Apologies if the (vast majority) posters on here are critical.

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Drag_Fan says...
1:55pm Tue 9 Oct 12

kalwales@hotmail.com wrote:
so i see the usual "blame the referee is out again" all i have to say to you all that criticise a referee is "why dont you show us all how it is done??" i was once a devoted and loyal fan of your region but after those behidn the scenes screwed me over and messed me about and ttreated me like crap t i have lost my respect for any of themand also i can clearly see you fans are being taken as mugs, u will never get investment in your region whilst them behind the scenes continue to play if for themselves and not the fans , and before you say "what did / do i do for the region" i used to Do charity work, and promote the region for FREE, i referee sometimes 5 games a week YES Tthats right 5 plus my usual appointments via the WRU but not just in the 1 eyed cocoon i am aroudn the region in Ponty, Usk, Blaneau, Nelson Bargoed NHSOB, Pill etc just to name a few, I do not have 1 single ounce of respect or admiration for any of those behind the scenes and the management staff infact i would go as far and say Hatred towards some of them, You region dont liek the truth and thats why they sit there and copy and paste my posts and email them to me thats how much they care about sorting out your region, one day you fans will see how much the region are taking you for mugs and that new euro shirt?? it lookslike somebody has been sick and printed it on material
So you're not allowed to criticise unless you do the job? In that case Kal, why don't you show us how to be a director or head coach or executive of a regional rugby club? Come to think of it you've also criticised Newport Bus Company & the Council (among others) so when are you applying to take on jobs at the top of those organisations?

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kalwales@hotmail.com says...
1:55pm Tue 9 Oct 12

The Region is a total mess and that is thanks to those running it oh sorry "claim to be running it" NOT the Players, the negativity of the management and board is rubbing off on the players also DOBERMAN "do not" apologise to anyone everyone is entitled to their opinion and if some dont like it then Tough !

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Robert Shillabeer says...
2:00pm Tue 9 Oct 12

Nothing to do with personal security as the Argus website is not able to be used to access your personal data. A real name is as safe as any other angle. I have et it be known I live in Caldicot and some people know me personally but no threat. Just the courage to have my real name on my statements. Please remember the Argus has your real name in order to take you to task if you break the forum rules.

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CaptainB says...
2:47pm Tue 9 Oct 12

WHOEVER WAS TO BLAME ON SATURDAY, THE FACTS FROM THE SEASON SO FAR SHOW CLEARLY THAT DARREN EDWARDS IS NOT A COACH OF SUFFICIENT QUALITY TO GET THE BEST OUT OF THESE PLAYERS. HE THEREFOR HAS TO GO, END OF...

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Doberman1 says...
4:03pm Tue 9 Oct 12

Robert Shillabeer wrote:
Nothing to do with personal security as the Argus website is not able to be used to access your personal data. A real name is as safe as any other angle. I have et it be known I live in Caldicot and some people know me personally but no threat. Just the courage to have my real name on my statements. Please remember the Argus has your real name in order to take you to task if you break the forum rules.
Your naivety is as scary as your medical knowledge.

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DaiFrank says...
12:40am Wed 10 Oct 12

'Kalwales you are obviously not a Dragons fan that is obvious from your postings so why not go away and let the real fans discuss issues properly'. R Shillabeer what an arrogant man you are and the kind of uncritical sycophant that has helped sustain this 'region'. People can be critical and a fan because of their passion. Change never arrives with people like you who continue to support something that is unsustainable. I would even say it's you who isn't the 'real fan'; someone who just laps it up and tries to justify it. You are an insider, a buffoon who has helped perpetuate this rubbish.

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Dai the Milk says...
11:22am Wed 10 Oct 12

Very courageous of you Robert.........but what the hell has using your real name got to do with the very serious underlying issues that have existed at RP for ten years? Are you trying to 'out' people I wonder in an effort to reduce the overwhelming majority of posters on here who state the very obvious truth that the 'region' (CLUB) is woefully out of its depth now and floundering badly? I have to agree with Kal.....the buck stops with the top.........the very top. Stop pandering to their wishes and became a true supporter by seeing and stating the truth. That doesn't make you a non-supporter. Far from it.

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cwmbran man says...
7:27pm Wed 10 Oct 12

If DE had one ounce of decency he would resign, clearly unqualified for a regional management job, lacking in tactical nous and awareness, also lacking any backbone to get in that boardroom and demand investment or get out, then make sure he gives the argus a scoop on what the hell is going on there behind the scenes, average players, poor management / coaches, and a very blinkered, backward looking board, this region will be very lucky to see 2020.

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