Dragons 19 Wasps 20 (From South Wales Argus)

A poor performance from 15 & 10. Otherwise gutsy.

Gutsy doesn't cut it l'm afraid. Plenty of effort but no ideas other than kicking the ball away.

We do have some talented players but we are woefully short in crucial positions. Also, until we get a coach with some idea of how to formulate a game plan other than "Do your best" the youngsters don't have a chance.

How many more excuses are we going to get from the coaches? The region went downhill after Paul Turner left. Proper Man of Gwent not like this shower.

We were unlucky tonight. If we had kicked the five penalties we would have won comfortably. Great effort by the guys against a top English team. The records will show a defeat but those who were there can say otherwise. A por ref who made soe strange decisions and missed a lot. Who thought it was a dead rubber for the Dragons we t east stopped them getting the easy win some so called Dragons supporters were predicting before the game. A better kicking game by Prydie and the game was ours.

Robert, we played with plenty of guts and pride but no direction. You cannot keep kicking valuable possession away and expect to win tight games.

You were there, l wasn't, so tell me, what was our game plan? Because l saw little evidence of one from where l was sitting.

We found some attacking thrust in the last 5 minutes, just like last week, but that was out of desperation. The only plan if you can call it that was to give them the ball and hope they made a mistake.

Robert Shillabeer wrote:
We were unlucky tonight. If we had kicked the five penalties we would have won comfortably. Great effort by the guys against a top English team. The records will show a defeat but those who were there can say otherwise. A por ref who made soe strange decisions and missed a lot. Who thought it was a dead rubber for the Dragons we t east stopped them getting the easy win some so called Dragons supporters were predicting before the game. A better kicking game by Prydie and the game was ours.

"the records will show a defeat but those who were there can say otherwise"........ I was there and I saw a defeat, what game were you watching?

Pro sport operates around small margins not "if's and but's", the penalties did not go over, why not?

The first 4 paragraphs of this article sum up the situation perfectly.

No doubting the effort but sadly effort alone does not win games.

We have some talented players no doubt however they are badly coached. Most on here see it, some never will.

I think we need to stop being disappointed and accept the short comings we know are there. I think it's a little naive to think we are just missing out on results too when we are actually being outplayed. The opposition are simply doing enough to get a result. When they need points they get them. I believe the current side is playing close to its full potential and the players are giving 100% for sure but until we get the promised investment we will continue to be the plucky also rans.

Best thing the players can do now for the rest of the season is to ignore the coaching team, and play what they see in a game.

We only kick because everyone else does it, it was like in the 90's when the All Blacks intorduced the"step to the side" in the line out, this would allow the jumpers to jump across and fill the space blocking the counter jump.

What happened?? all teams started doing it......

When you see players play for the Babarians, they play whats infront of them and you see their real skill set, not what the coaches tell them to do or your dropped.

The dragons have to be different, we can't bully sides up front, we need quick ball, fast pace, keeping the ball alive, not setting a ruck and waiting 1 min to get everyone set then pass it!

The backs should be deeper and come on at pace, then quick ball and run the backsides off the opposition.

It's not rocket science, shorten the line outs if we are not getting clean ball, only kick when it's required and show some attacking flair!

What have they to loose???

Best thing the players can do now for the rest of the season is to ignore the coaching team, and play what they see in a game.

We only kick because everyone else does it, it was like in the 90's when the All Blacks intorduced the"step to the side" in the line out, this would allow the jumpers to jump across and fill the space blocking the counter jump.

What happened?? all teams started doing it......

When you see players play for the Babarians, they play whats infront of them and you see their real skill set, not what the coaches tell them to do or your dropped.

The dragons have to be different, we can't bully sides up front, we need quick ball, fast pace, keeping the ball alive, not setting a ruck and waiting 1 min to get everyone set then pass it!

The backs should be deeper and come on at pace, then quick ball and run the backsides off the opposition.

It's not rocket science, shorten the line outs if we are not getting clean ball, only kick when it's required and show some attacking flair!

What have they to loose???

rhinestine wrote:
Best thing the players can do now for the rest of the season is to ignore the coaching team, and play what they see in a game.

We only kick because everyone else does it, it was like in the 90's when the All Blacks intorduced the"step to the side" in the line out, this would allow the jumpers to jump across and fill the space blocking the counter jump.

What happened?? all teams started doing it......

When you see players play for the Babarians, they play whats infront of them and you see their real skill set, not what the coaches tell them to do or your dropped.

The dragons have to be different, we can't bully sides up front, we need quick ball, fast pace, keeping the ball alive, not setting a ruck and waiting 1 min to get everyone set then pass it!

The backs should be deeper and come on at pace, then quick ball and run the backsides off the opposition.

It's not rocket science, shorten the line outs if we are not getting clean ball, only kick when it's required and show some attacking flair!

What have they to loose???

The constant kicking is very dull but I think it speaks volumes about our forwards shortcomings. It's a tactic to avoid contact and concede pens or worse in our own half. The problem with the open play idea is you have to create space to begin with and so we are back to the forward issue again. I think we do play well in broken play but it's a high risk strategy to chip and chase constantly and if I am honest the standard issue Box kicking, from most sides to be fair, just isn't good enough to trouble the opposition .

Aireal pin pong is now part of the game and overall that was a draw. The ref made three basic errors, firstly he awarded a penalty try because Toby broke his binding, he was number 8 who needs no binding he antisipated them breaking that way and moved up to block it and before you all start to shout about it think first who would he have to bind with? Secondly the deliberate knocking out of play in the in goal area is a penalty try thing which he let go. And, thirdly he blew up with at least twenty seconds left to play with the Dragons having the throw in. A poor ref performance all round. On the issue of kicking the ball away it's part of the modern game and generally balances out through a game. We should have played the same game as we did in the last ten from the start yes, we were much more of a handful when we played the ball that way. One thing I noticed was we weren't doing the usual and change the team around quite so much as usual therefore not so much disruption.

Robert Shillabeer wrote:
Aireal pin pong is now part of the game and overall that was a draw. The ref made three basic errors, firstly he awarded a penalty try because Toby broke his binding, he was number 8 who needs no binding he antisipated them breaking that way and moved up to block it and before you all start to shout about it think first who would he have to bind with? Secondly the deliberate knocking out of play in the in goal area is a penalty try thing which he let go. And, thirdly he blew up with at least twenty seconds left to play with the Dragons having the throw in. A poor ref performance all round. On the issue of kicking the ball away it's part of the modern game and generally balances out through a game. We should have played the same game as we did in the last ten from the start yes, we were much more of a handful when we played the ball that way. One thing I noticed was we weren't doing the usual and change the team around quite so much as usual therefore not so much disruption.

I was in the Bisley and didn't see Toby breaking off but did notice Lewis Evans do it way too early again. He's prone to it for sure. Agree about Vandells deliberate tap into touch. He knew what he'd done and was expecting the worse by his expression. Real cope out by the ref and lines man who was right on the spot. Also the final whistle seem to come after a wasp player asked the ref to do it. There was time for a line out for sure. The modern game does involve tactical kicking but "Ping pong" only happens when the kicking is poor/wrong option. What ever happened to full backs running the ball back at defences? The last 10 mins came about from a bit of quick thinking by Jon Evans. Good news he has signed for another two years. It was opportunistic and lead to some quick open play. You cant play 80 mins this way though unless the oppositions defence is useless. You need to get behind a side first and recycle quickly. Simple in principle but requires a good pack /ball carriers to create it. It would be great if we could just decide to be awesome but it doesn't work like that. I honestly believe if we had scored more more points then Wasps would have replied. It's not valid to think we would have won for the sake of two poor penalties . credit where it's due though. The team gave it 100% we can't ask for more.

A game full of effort and a bit more commitment which has been sadly lacking this year but in the end, as other posters have mentioned, our opposition seem to always be in control and can take the win when they want.
Is it just me or has anybody else noticed how horizontal Prydie places the ball when he is kicking. I'm no expert but it just looks wrong.

Robert Shillabeer wrote:
Aireal pin pong is now part of the game and overall that was a draw. The ref made three basic errors, firstly he awarded a penalty try because Toby broke his binding, he was number 8 who needs no binding he antisipated them breaking that way and moved up to block it and before you all start to shout about it think first who would he have to bind with? Secondly the deliberate knocking out of play in the in goal area is a penalty try thing which he let go. And, thirdly he blew up with at least twenty seconds left to play with the Dragons having the throw in. A poor ref performance all round. On the issue of kicking the ball away it's part of the modern game and generally balances out through a game. We should have played the same game as we did in the last ten from the start yes, we were much more of a handful when we played the ball that way. One thing I noticed was we weren't doing the usual and change the team around quite so much as usual therefore not so much disruption.

All forwards must remain part of the scrum until the ball is out. The No.8 binds on the second rows Robert and has done snce the year dot, surprised you didn't know that. Toby hoped to get away with it as many do, he got caught and the penalty try decision was fair because had the Dragons scrum stayed own, the Wasps would probably have scored.

There are bad refereeing decisions every week because the general standard of refereeing is poor, other teams cope with it, why don't we?

Successful teams kick with a purpose, not because they can't think of anything else to do. There are other teams that don't have massive forwards to play a power game, so they have developed styles of play that suit their abilities, why haven't we?
I firmly believe we have the player talent to play a better game, of course we need strengthening in certain positions, but even now it only takes a coach with a bit of nous to work out a better way for us to play, unfortunately we don't have that coach.

We had a coach with a rugby brain in Paul Turner and those in charge leapt at the opportunity to get rid of him rather than give him the sort of support they give Edwards.

I don't expect us to win every game with the squad we have, but 50% should be attainable for a start.

IMO Prydies poor kicking was down to lack of practise. A couple of weeks out with injury, back with strapping around his knee area, probably means he has not had as much practise as he would like. Like any specialist practise is esssential, he was spot on at the start of the season and once he ups the practise he will be reliable again. Would though like to see him on the wing and Dan back at 15. If the 10 is only going to kick then Steffan or Lewis can do that, so could Coombes for that matter. Oh and it was both Lewis and Toby who had broken of the scrum for the penalty try. Thought the back row was excellent, Toby does have to bulk up a bit, he just doesn't seem to get through tackles as 8's often do. Some of Poole's tackles were immense and whats more I don't think he hurt himself. Shame though that he is prone to knocking on when he is tackled. Cudd had another superb game, good battle for the 7 jersey coming up when Waters is back, two quality players. Do think Sid needs a break.

sad

Robert Shillabeer wrote:
We were unlucky tonight. If we had kicked the five penalties we would have won comfortably. Great effort by the guys against a top English team. The records will show a defeat but those who were there can say otherwise. A por ref who made soe strange decisions and missed a lot. Who thought it was a dead rubber for the Dragons we t east stopped them getting the easy win some so called Dragons supporters were predicting before the game. A better kicking game by Prydie and the game was ours.

DE's chief apologist at it again, sides come here play at 70% and in, if we do run them close they smply up the ante and pull away, your acceptance of abject mediocrity is ruining this region, if your there every week as you say, its about time you arrange a chorus of DE OUT.

Euwan Usami wrote:

Robert Shillabeer wrote:
Aireal pin pong is now part of the game and overall that was a draw. The ref made three basic errors, firstly he awarded a penalty try because Toby broke his binding, he was number 8 who needs no binding he antisipated them breaking that way and moved up to block it and before you all start to shout about it think first who would he have to bind with? Secondly the deliberate knocking out of play in the in goal area is a penalty try thing which he let go. And, thirdly he blew up with at least twenty seconds left to play with the Dragons having the throw in. A poor ref performance all round. On the issue of kicking the ball away it's part of the modern game and generally balances out through a game. We should have played the same game as we did in the last ten from the start yes, we were much more of a handful when we played the ball that way. One thing I noticed was we weren't doing the usual and change the team around quite so much as usual therefore not so much disruption.

I was in the Bisley and didn't see Toby breaking off but did notice Lewis Evans do it way too early again. He's prone to it for sure. Agree about Vandells deliberate tap into touch. He knew what he'd done and was expecting the worse by his expression. Real cope out by the ref and lines man who was right on the spot. Also the final whistle seem to come after a wasp player asked the ref to do it. There was time for a line out for sure. The modern game does involve tactical kicking but "Ping pong" only happens when the kicking is poor/wrong option. What ever happened to full backs running the ball back at defences? The last 10 mins came about from a bit of quick thinking by Jon Evans. Good news he has signed for another two years. It was opportunistic and lead to some quick open play. You cant play 80 mins this way though unless the oppositions defence is useless. You need to get behind a side first and recycle quickly. Simple in principle but requires a good pack /ball carriers to create it. It would be great if we could just decide to be awesome but it doesn't work like that. I honestly believe if we had scored more more points then Wasps would have replied. It's not valid to think we would have won for the sake of two poor penalties . credit where it's due though. The team gave it 100% we can't ask for more.

Recorded the game and saw it clearly, Toby broke from behind onto the edge of the scrum and tucked behind Evans but Evans kept his bind, the ref antisipated the break away and did not actually see it because it didn't happen, very poor by the ref. the ref also blew up for time early with the Dragons to throw in thus preventing a possible score, if he reacted to prompts from the defending side that simply makes it even worse. Very poor ref all round.

let em swing wrote:

Robert Shillabeer wrote:
We were unlucky tonight. If we had kicked the five penalties we would have won comfortably. Great effort by the guys against a top English team. The records will show a defeat but those who were there can say otherwise. A por ref who made soe strange decisions and missed a lot. Who thought it was a dead rubber for the Dragons we t east stopped them getting the easy win some so called Dragons supporters were predicting before the game. A better kicking game by Prydie and the game was ours.

DE's chief apologist at it again, sides come here play at 70% and in, if we do run them close they smply up the ante and pull away, your acceptance of abject mediocrity is ruining this region, if your there every week as you say, its about time you arrange a chorus of DE OUT.

If I remember right you predicted a 50 point defeat!

No Rob, i predicted 20, and losing by one doesnt mean we got unlucky again, means they were able to beat us in second gear, mark my words, we will suffer a 50 point drubbing this season, other teams in the league have not got serious yet.

another plucky display by our brave boys but another game lost,same old story.and missed points cost us again.

how many more times will a dragons fly-half get a kick charged down near the oppositions try line and then them to gain from it, before they'll learn not to keep doing it, why is our only tactic to kick away possesion? beyond me! we'd win a lot more games if we actually had a game plan, fed up of losing by minimal points all the time!!

Complete lack of coachng competency,DE, Beale and a couple others need to walk.

SWBorderer wrote:

Robert Shillabeer wrote:
Aireal pin pong is now part of the game and overall that was a draw. The ref made three basic errors, firstly he awarded a penalty try because Toby broke his binding, he was number 8 who needs no binding he antisipated them breaking that way and moved up to block it and before you all start to shout about it think first who would he have to bind with? Secondly the deliberate knocking out of play in the in goal area is a penalty try thing which he let go. And, thirdly he blew up with at least twenty seconds left to play with the Dragons having the throw in. A poor ref performance all round. On the issue of kicking the ball away it's part of the modern game and generally balances out through a game. We should have played the same game as we did in the last ten from the start yes, we were much more of a handful when we played the ball that way. One thing I noticed was we weren't doing the usual and change the team around quite so much as usual therefore not so much disruption.

All forwards must remain part of the scrum until the ball is out. The No.8 binds on the second rows Robert and has done snce the year dot, surprised you didn't know that. Toby hoped to get away with it as many do, he got caught and the penalty try decision was fair because had the Dragons scrum stayed own, the Wasps would probably have scored.

There are bad refereeing decisions every week because the general standard of refereeing is poor, other teams cope with it, why don't we?

Successful teams kick with a purpose, not because they can't think of anything else to do. There are other teams that don't have massive forwards to play a power game, so they have developed styles of play that suit their abilities, why haven't we?
I firmly believe we have the player talent to play a better game, of course we need strengthening in certain positions, but even now it only takes a coach with a bit of nous to work out a better way for us to play, unfortunately we don't have that coach.

We had a coach with a rugby brain in Paul Turner and those in charge leapt at the opportunity to get rid of him rather than give him the sort of support they give Edwards.

I don't expect us to win every game with the squad we have, but 50% should be attainable for a start.

According to the current Laws of Rugby in Law 20 Definitions (feel free to check) the No 8 can push on either both locks or alternately on a lock and a flanker which is what Toby did.

Change your glasses Robert, he let go of his binding.

When you were counting bad decisions against us, did you count the ones for us, there is generally swings and roundabouts. I would agree that the ref was not brilliant but we've had worse this year and there are not many good ones to go round.

You can paper over the cracks as much as you like, but the foundations are not there and the architect is completely out of his depth.

A good coach would take what we have and fashion a game plan round them, probably with limited success, but limited success would be an improvement on what we have now.

Newport Dragons got to be one of the worst performing teams around with 16 losing games and 5 games lost in a row since boxing day. Bet against Newport Dragons and beat the Bookies. laughing all the way to the Bank, from GYPSY BOY

SWBorderer wrote:
Change your glasses Robert, he let go of his binding.

When you were counting bad decisions against us, did you count the ones for us, there is generally swings and roundabouts. I would agree that the ref was not brilliant but we've had worse this year and there are not many good ones to go round.

You can paper over the cracks as much as you like, but the foundations are not there and the architect is completely out of his depth.

A good coach would take what we have and fashion a game plan round them, probably with limited success, but limited success would be an improvement on what we have now.

Yes there are swings and rounderbourts, but this ref made a critical decision on what was a fair play, Toby set himself on that side, at least from my angle in the Hazel Stand, he also made other critical errors during the game which had specific effects on the game. When any sde are attacking or defending the ref has higher responsibility to get things right, that's why we have TMO. And next year we will have the facility to go back two moves to decide if a try is scored. That, to me, means they have no faith in ref decisions and simply want to cover thier backsides.

I'm furious that Darren Edwards didn't bring on Steffan jones MUCH earlier. Like in the first half! From early on it was obvious that dan evans was massively off colour and steff should have been given a chance. Dan evans kicks were so low, some of them were charged down from ten metres away. Bizarrely, it wasn't until tom prydie's missed kicks had already lost us the game that steff got a chance, and with seven minutes left on the clock he made a **** good stab at it. Shame he didn't have half an hour to do a salvage job in which case we would have won. Dan Way should have been subbed off ten minutes earlier, preventing a ( ridiculous) penalty try. Edwards managed our subs terribly, as he always seems to do. This guy is not head coach material. Get someone else in! The experiment hasn't worked!

OK lets not look at laws, bad refs, moon phase etc. The present team cannot close out matches, whose fault ? Management, Players ?

I for one of many cant take losing every week, after being there for 20ys on and off...
Just cant justify my ticket price for disappointment week in week out.

Something has to change and we have all had promises year after year, however nothing changes :-(

Chris

nothing will change untill big money is spent to get new players, but why would top class players want to come to the dragons.,we cant compete at this level without the influx of better players simple as that.like most pro sport without the money you get a second rate team and that is what we have in the dragons.

always rely on the hypocrits to make me smile in the mornings - bit of advice from a Rugby Fan NOT a Dragons Fan "look closely inside the 1 eyed bubble if you want to blame someone"