LABOUR LEADERSHIP ELECTION: Five questions with Vaughan Gething

What is your position on the M4 relief road?

Doing nothing is not an option.

I don't believe you can resolve this significant strategic choice for the Welsh economy by saying more walking, cycling and a bus lane will resolve it.

And I don't think it's a local problem for Newport either - it is a national strategic choice.

So, for me, doing nothing is not an option.

That means delivering a relief road is the only option.

The form of relief road the public inquiry will help us decide, and we have to confirm it is affordable as well, but I think we need to take that choice.

We've had more than a decade of not making that decision and is the job of leaders to make those choices for the country.

I think you have to make a balanced choice but I've been very clear - with me as first minister we'll get a decision on a relief road and we will see it though.

What is your position on Brexit? Do you support a so-called people's vote? Or do you want a second referendum?

I've been really clear about this.

On the M4 there are different views, and on this there are as well.

Labour Party policy is that a deal should meet our six tests, and if it doesn't we should have a General Election, and if we can't we should campaign for a people's vote.

I have no problem with that, except that we know our six tests wont be met, and we know with near certainty that we're not going to get a General Election.

In normal times, of course, a government which can't deliver on an issue this big would be forced to go to the country.

But these are not normal times, and there is no wing of the Conservative Party which suggests that want a General Election before March next year.

Just like on the M4, there's a practical choice to be made, with huge significance for the next generation of our country.

I don't want to come back in 10 years time and say I didn't do what I thought was right because it was difficult, even though I knew it would change in such an enormous way the future of the country.

In many ways the most frightening thing about this whole process is the government has never had a plan. It has never had a plan the government can agree on, let alone a plan the country can agree on.

A divided Parliament is never going to resolve this issue - the public could.

It should be a vote on either the deal that is on offer from the government with an option for the status quo, and I think there is a real choice to be made there. That's a choice I want to be made available, and that's the sort of leadership you'd get with me.

Council reform, including whether to force local authorities in Wales to merge, is an issue which has occupied Welsh politics for a number of years now. What would your approach be as first minister?

I think we have to promote collaboration and integration between local authorities.

I don't think a big plan of compulsory mergers is smart way forward. It hasn't worked. When you produce a map you immediately give people a reason to campaign against it.

We need to be able to demonstrate that reforming the structures of local government is actually about delivering an improved service with better outcomes for the public.

In the local government bill that is going through we do need to take powers to help voluntary mergers to take place.

You may well see - whether it's within Gwent or other parts of the country - some councils do want to have a different relationship.

I don't think another big map of compulsory mergers is the way forward at all.

We need a more grown-up and respectful conversation between different parts of government, and that's what I want to see.

If you ask people in local government they'll agree reform is necessary.

They wont just be talking about money - there is an acknowledgement that the way they're currently organised probably doesn't make sense.

How will your leadership as first minister be different from that of Carwyn Jones?

People are individual characters and the character of the person influences their style of leadership.

There will obviously be a difference in style.

The substance will change as well, because obviously, for Carwyn, very soon after he took over had to deal with a very long, deep period of austerity.

We are still going through this.

There were difficult choices to be made. We will have to make some different choices in the future.

I want to be clear about my perspective about having a real ambition for the country.

I really do think we need to rekindle a courage and an ambition for the country.

Carwyn's style is his own - mine would be very different.

I have already said I want to deliver a national care service for Wales.

That's about making use of our new tax powers to fund a ring-fenced levy. I think that's really important because I don't think the public will trust a politician to use those powers to go into a general pot - that isn't where we are in politics now. Whereas I think there is an argument to be won about having that money in a particular place to deliver on an increasing care need.

Lots of people are surprised when they find out when they need more social care, typically as they get older, that it's not free in the way the health service is. It doesn't come from general taxation and has to be assessed on their means as to what their contribution would be.

And I've talked about ending holiday hunger, which is a real scandal. We've got the basis to deliver on that work, and I am delighted that Mark Drakeford agrees with me now as well.

On the same vein, on improving our childcare offer, I've said we should deliver more childcare for working people in poverty and to improve that offer for two and three year olds for people in education and training.

In terms of leadership, it will be different because you've got different characters involved.

The new leadership in the other parties means the contest is going to be different, and I don't think Welsh Labour should be at all complacent about what that means.

We've all heard very open voices in the Welsh Conservatives and Plaid Cymru saying 'can we work together in the future to have a non-Welsh Labour government?'.

We should take those voices seriously and not be complacent and lazy enough to think we'll always be in government.

That means giving people a positive, hopeful offer about the future as well as providing a more ambitious and positive approach to leadership.

If there is one thing you could achieve as first minister what would it be?

Making real progress in turning around the tide of poverty.

Our biggest problem as a country is that we are overwhelmingly a poor country and, if we can do something with the powers we have to learn lessons about the things we've done in the past - what's worked, what hasn't worked as well - then that will be the biggest difference we could make.

That requires us to create more jobs, and better jobs, because we won't tackle poverty by simply investing resources in public services.

Of course we should invest resources in public service, but I want to improve the services we have as demand and the nature of demand across the country changes. But to really make a dent in poverty you need more work, and better work.

That means a continued grown-up relationship with business and industry.

It would be right that any Welsh Labour government should have at its centre an approach to tackling poverty.

What we need to do though is have a plan we can actually control and deliver ourselves.

We can't say we want a plan for delivering and tackling poverty that relies on a UK Government pulling in a diametrically opposite direction and doing the right thing.

• Mark Drakeford and Eluned Morgan are also running for the role.

VAUGHAN GETHING FACT FILE

• Born in Zambia, he worked as a solicitor, specialising in employment law.
• Serving on Cardiff City Council from 2004 until 2008, he was elected as Cardiff South and Penarth AM in 2011.
• He served under rival candidate Mark Drakeford as his deputy when he was health minister. And he was given the health, wellbeing and sport portfolio outright following the 2016 Assembly Election.
• In November last year this role was revised to cover health and social services.
• Among those who nominated him were Torfaen AM Lynne Neagle and Caerphilly's Hefin David.