PCC ELECTIONS: ‘Complaint is pathetic’ - candidate

First published in News South Wales Argus: Photograph of the Author by

A POLICE and crime commissioner candidate has described an official complaint about his consultancy work as “pathetic”.

Gwent Police confirmed it received a complaint yesterday and referred the matter to the returning officer for the election.

But independent candidate Ian Johnston says his consultancy business has ceased trading and refuted the accusation.

He said on Facebook: “Someone has made a complaint to the returning officer that my consultancy... may be in conflict with (my) standing as a candidate.

Good try but pathetic really.

“Firstly there is no conflict but more importantly Janet and I wound up the company on September 30.”

Mr Johnston, a retired senior police officer, said he decided to wind up the consultancy as he wanted to focus on the police commissioner job.

Mr Johnston, who was managing director of Johnston & Johnston Consultancy, said the consultancy never provided any services to Gwent Police but organisations like BBC Wales and the Police Mutual Assurance Society.

Comments (12)

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11:04am Fri 9 Nov 12

Lp.Randle says...

Mr Johnston has some serious explaining to do.
I'm aware that he has been asked to explain why he has been getting political support from Plaid Cymru as he is standing as an Independent. I am also concerned and confused at this link. As yet we have had no real explanation from him as to why he has had this help. What will Plaid require in return?

A prominent member of the labour party claimed him to be delusional and desperate recently as

Mr Johnston stated that the labour party had approached him to stand as a candidate.

Now according to the above article in the Argus. Gwent Police have confirmed it has received a complaint and referred the matter to the returning officer for the election. What does this mean to us the residents of Gwent? Should he even be standing as a candidate then?

I looked at Mr Johnston website and it states in present tense under “Business” that

“In April 2010 I created a Consultancy Company with my wife Janet. We have since established a number of clients including a company working in the financial services sector that counts the Police Service as a key market. Our company also provides strategic advice to several international software companies that provide intelligence analysis and criminal investigation software tools to Police Forces Worldwide”

The above therefore is very misleading

But his explanation is in past tense

“Firstly there is no conflict but more importantly Janet and I wound up the company on September 30.”(does not say this on his website) and claims the complaint as pathetic.

I feel we need to know the truth. Would the police have referred the allegation to the returning officer if the complaint was pathetic?

It goes on in the article....Mr Johnston, who was managing director of Johnston & Johnston Consultancy (does not say “was” on website), said “the consultancy never provided any services to Gwent Police but organisations like BBC Wales and the Police Mutual Assurance Society”

Not quite so glowing or impressive as it is made to look on his website but still surely questionable?

So which is correct? or is he just trying to mislead us on his website?

Also I find it quite disturbing that according to Mr Johnston's website he spent a huge amount of time out of the county in many other countries around the world being paid for I can only assume by us the residents of Gwent all in the name of senior officer's. If he made it to the post of Police and Crimes Commissioner would we even see him in Gwent? what other world travels could we possibly end up paying for in the name of Police and Crimes commissioner?

For all his supposed waffle, I fear this man has already, in his own words told us, it's all about him and not about not us.
Mr Johnston has some serious explaining to do. I'm aware that he has been asked to explain why he has been getting political support from Plaid Cymru as he is standing as an Independent. I am also concerned and confused at this link. As yet we have had no real explanation from him as to why he has had this help. What will Plaid require in return? A prominent member of the labour party claimed him to be delusional and desperate recently as Mr Johnston stated that the labour party had approached him to stand as a candidate. Now according to the above article in the Argus. Gwent Police have confirmed it has received a complaint and referred the matter to the returning officer for the election. What does this mean to us the residents of Gwent? Should he even be standing as a candidate then? I looked at Mr Johnston website and it states in present tense under “Business” that “In April 2010 I created a Consultancy Company with my wife Janet. We have since established a number of clients including a company working in the financial services sector that counts the Police Service as a key market. Our company also provides strategic advice to several international software companies that provide intelligence analysis and criminal investigation software tools to Police Forces Worldwide” The above therefore is very misleading But his explanation is in past tense “Firstly there is no conflict but more importantly Janet and I wound up the company on September 30.”(does not say this on his website) and claims the complaint as pathetic. I feel we need to know the truth. Would the police have referred the allegation to the returning officer if the complaint was pathetic? It goes on in the article....Mr Johnston, who was managing director of Johnston & Johnston Consultancy (does not say “was” on website), said “the consultancy never provided any services to Gwent Police but organisations like BBC Wales and the Police Mutual Assurance Society” Not quite so glowing or impressive as it is made to look on his website but still surely questionable? So which is correct? or is he just trying to mislead us on his website? Also I find it quite disturbing that according to Mr Johnston's website he spent a huge amount of time out of the county in many other countries around the world being paid for I can only assume by us the residents of Gwent all in the name of senior officer's. If he made it to the post of Police and Crimes Commissioner would we even see him in Gwent? what other world travels could we possibly end up paying for in the name of Police and Crimes commissioner? For all his supposed waffle, I fear this man has already, in his own words told us, it's all about him and not about not us. Lp.Randle
  • Score: 0

4:53pm Fri 9 Nov 12

Cloth Head says...

Lp Randle..I have sought clarification from your so called prominent Labour MP regarding his claims and the veracity of them.....still no reply.
Are you really that annoyed that members of Plaid helped deliver leaflets or would you expect the Independent candidates to visit every household in Gwent. Democracy? means fairness and freedom, you don't seem to understand it. Or would you prefer that the two political parties and their heavy support have it all their own way.
The matter being referred to the Returning Officer by Gwent Police is procedural. The outcome of no conflict is exactly what Mr Johnson says "pathetic". Once again taking up Gwent Police valuable time.
You seem to have issue in Mr Johnson travelling the world. If you had taken the time to understand the role at that time was as the first Welsh chair of the National Superintendents Association. Some might even say that this would be valuable experience towards the role of PCC.
Lp Randle are you a member of any political party ? If so which one?

I am prepared for the waffle!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lp Randle..I have sought clarification from your so called prominent Labour MP regarding his claims and the veracity of them.....still no reply. Are you really that annoyed that members of Plaid helped deliver leaflets or would you expect the Independent candidates to visit every household in Gwent. Democracy? means fairness and freedom, you don't seem to understand it. Or would you prefer that the two political parties and their heavy support have it all their own way. The matter being referred to the Returning Officer by Gwent Police is procedural. The outcome of no conflict is exactly what Mr Johnson says "pathetic". Once again taking up Gwent Police valuable time. You seem to have issue in Mr Johnson travelling the world. If you had taken the time to understand the role at that time was as the first Welsh chair of the National Superintendents Association. Some might even say that this would be valuable experience towards the role of PCC. Lp Randle are you a member of any political party ? If so which one? I am prepared for the waffle!!!!!!!!!!!! Cloth Head
  • Score: 0

8:28pm Sat 10 Nov 12

Lp.Randle says...

Gwent Police confirmed it received a complaint and referred the matter to the returning officer for the election.

Shame the Argus did not put this article in the paper for some reason it's only on line.

"Cloth Head"

Why are you Insulting my intelligence stating " I don’t understand" very disrespectful.

Why has Mr Johnston stood as an Independent? He professes to keep politics out of policing then to help his campaign he engages with Plaid, why? This surely makes Mr Johnston’s position as “Independent” questionable? What will Plaid want in return? misleading I think, same as his website.


I hope we the residents of Gwent have nothing to worry about with regards to the police complaint against him because the mess that will in-sue if there is a problem does not bear thinking about, could it even mean a re-election? Lets hope the public know before the 15th November so they can vote accordingly.


It's usually the politicians spending our hard earned taxes flying around the world or claiming expenses they should not, but now I see that the senior police officers are allowed to do the same in the Gwent Police, I hope the new Police and Crime commissioner can stop this. We may even get more visible policeman on our streets, I had never realised before reading Mr Johnston's website that this went on and for what possible benefit to us the residents of Gwent area? my friends I have spoken with today feel the same.


May be the Argus should print his carbon footprint for all the air-miles he did. How could there be any justification for any serving senior police officer to travel this widely in the name of policing?

NO! I am not a member of a political party.

I will be voting for an Independent as will all my friends, it will not be for Mr Johnston.
Gwent Police confirmed it received a complaint and referred the matter to the returning officer for the election. Shame the Argus did not put this article in the paper for some reason it's only on line. "Cloth Head" Why are you Insulting my intelligence stating " I don’t understand" very disrespectful. Why has Mr Johnston stood as an Independent? He professes to keep politics out of policing then to help his campaign he engages with Plaid, why? This surely makes Mr Johnston’s position as “Independent” questionable? What will Plaid want in return? misleading I think, same as his website. I hope we the residents of Gwent have nothing to worry about with regards to the police complaint against him because the mess that will in-sue if there is a problem does not bear thinking about, could it even mean a re-election? Lets hope the public know before the 15th November so they can vote accordingly. It's usually the politicians spending our hard earned taxes flying around the world or claiming expenses they should not, but now I see that the senior police officers are allowed to do the same in the Gwent Police, I hope the new Police and Crime commissioner can stop this. We may even get more visible policeman on our streets, I had never realised before reading Mr Johnston's website that this went on and for what possible benefit to us the residents of Gwent area? my friends I have spoken with today feel the same. May be the Argus should print his carbon footprint for all the air-miles he did. How could there be any justification for any serving senior police officer to travel this widely in the name of policing? NO! I am not a member of a political party. I will be voting for an Independent as will all my friends, it will not be for Mr Johnston. Lp.Randle
  • Score: 0

1:14pm Sun 11 Nov 12

Cloth Head says...

Lp Randel I apologise if you feel I have insulted your intelligence. However, I am all in favour of debate but your focus is totally on Ian Johnston and the so called issues which have been investigated and identified as unfounded.
I note you will be voting for Chris Wright as he is the only other candidate running. I have no issue with that it maybe something I consider myself. I certainly will not be voting for a political party. What has caused me to take issue with your comments is the attack upon Ian Johnston integrity when we do not know the full facts. It was only in September that Chris Wright had to justify "proven" issues around his honesty and integrity in the Argus when he was fined by Gwent police some years ago (2005?) for his over-claiming expenses. You make no comment of this. Is Chris Wrights explanation to these allegations true as we only have his account? The two Independent candidates have conducted themselves very well in this process and for their supporters to bring unfounded accusations will only play into the political hands.
Lp Randel I apologise if you feel I have insulted your intelligence. However, I am all in favour of debate but your focus is totally on Ian Johnston and the so called issues which have been investigated and identified as unfounded. I note you will be voting for Chris Wright as he is the only other candidate running. I have no issue with that it maybe something I consider myself. I certainly will not be voting for a political party. What has caused me to take issue with your comments is the attack upon Ian Johnston integrity when we do not know the full facts. It was only in September that Chris Wright had to justify "proven" issues around his honesty and integrity in the Argus when he was fined by Gwent police some years ago (2005?) for his over-claiming expenses. You make no comment of this. Is Chris Wrights explanation to these allegations true as we only have his account? The two Independent candidates have conducted themselves very well in this process and for their supporters to bring unfounded accusations will only play into the political hands. Cloth Head
  • Score: 0

7:23pm Sun 11 Nov 12

Chris 4 Gwent P&CC says...

Cloth Head wrote:
Lp Randel I apologise if you feel I have insulted your intelligence. However, I am all in favour of debate but your focus is totally on Ian Johnston and the so called issues which have been investigated and identified as unfounded.
I note you will be voting for Chris Wright as he is the only other candidate running. I have no issue with that it maybe something I consider myself. I certainly will not be voting for a political party. What has caused me to take issue with your comments is the attack upon Ian Johnston integrity when we do not know the full facts. It was only in September that Chris Wright had to justify "proven" issues around his honesty and integrity in the Argus when he was fined by Gwent police some years ago (2005?) for his over-claiming expenses. You make no comment of this. Is Chris Wrights explanation to these allegations true as we only have his account? The two Independent candidates have conducted themselves very well in this process and for their supporters to bring unfounded accusations will only play into the political hands.
Cloth Head ...

I have just returned home after a long days canvassing to receive a message ... having been sent to me it states ...
It is I should be thanking you for your openness, honesty and the inclusive and approachable manner in which you are conducting your campaign. I'll be casting one vote on Thursday; I can only hope the Wright candidate wins? Good luck and well fought Sir!"

I ask you to read ...
http://www.walesonli
ne.co.uk/news/wales-
news/2012/09/19/poli
ce-and-crime-commiss
ioner-candidate-chri
stopher-wright-alleg
es-smear-campaign-91
466-31867202/

I have NEVER been overpaid ANY overtime or expenses in 30 years of policing.

I wish assure you, and am willing to do so face-to-face, so that YOU can vouch for my honest, integrity and sincerity.

In my Police career I spent hundreds of hours working overtime, for the communities of Gwent, without ever thinking of claiming payment.

Unfortunately, due to my robust challenge of a senior officer in about 2001 a witch-hunt ensued. The article in the Western Mail is a result of that.

I hope we can meet face-to-face, and you can contact me confidentially through my web site http://chris4gwentpc
c.co.uk/ … so that you can maintain your rightful anonymity.
[quote][p][bold]Cloth Head[/bold] wrote: Lp Randel I apologise if you feel I have insulted your intelligence. However, I am all in favour of debate but your focus is totally on Ian Johnston and the so called issues which have been investigated and identified as unfounded. I note you will be voting for Chris Wright as he is the only other candidate running. I have no issue with that it maybe something I consider myself. I certainly will not be voting for a political party. What has caused me to take issue with your comments is the attack upon Ian Johnston integrity when we do not know the full facts. It was only in September that Chris Wright had to justify "proven" issues around his honesty and integrity in the Argus when he was fined by Gwent police some years ago (2005?) for his over-claiming expenses. You make no comment of this. Is Chris Wrights explanation to these allegations true as we only have his account? The two Independent candidates have conducted themselves very well in this process and for their supporters to bring unfounded accusations will only play into the political hands.[/p][/quote]Cloth Head ... I have just returned home after a long days canvassing to receive a message ... having been sent to me it states ... It is I should be thanking you for your openness, honesty and the inclusive and approachable manner in which you are conducting your campaign. I'll be casting one vote on Thursday; I can only hope the Wright candidate wins? Good luck and well fought Sir!" I ask you to read ... http://www.walesonli ne.co.uk/news/wales- news/2012/09/19/poli ce-and-crime-commiss ioner-candidate-chri stopher-wright-alleg es-smear-campaign-91 466-31867202/ I have NEVER been overpaid ANY overtime or expenses in 30 years of policing. I wish assure you, and am willing to do so face-to-face, so that YOU can vouch for my honest, integrity and sincerity. In my Police career I spent hundreds of hours working overtime, for the communities of Gwent, without ever thinking of claiming payment. Unfortunately, due to my robust challenge of a senior officer in about 2001 a witch-hunt ensued. The article in the Western Mail is a result of that. I hope we can meet face-to-face, and you can contact me confidentially through my web site http://chris4gwentpc c.co.uk/ … so that you can maintain your rightful anonymity. Chris 4 Gwent P&CC
  • Score: 0

7:41pm Sun 11 Nov 12

Cloth Head says...

Mr Wright...many thanks for your response. As I said I think you have conducted your campaign very well and you are a serious consideration for my vote. What I didn;t like was the way some people have seen it necessary to undermine candidates with comments without seeming to know facts. That then becomes unbalanced I dont like that approach but it is probably a necessary evil when unfortunately politics are involved, which is why my vote will be independent.
I wish you well and hope whoever is elected represent Gwent in the best possible manner.
Mr Wright...many thanks for your response. As I said I think you have conducted your campaign very well and you are a serious consideration for my vote. What I didn;t like was the way some people have seen it necessary to undermine candidates with comments without seeming to know facts. That then becomes unbalanced I dont like that approach but it is probably a necessary evil when unfortunately politics are involved, which is why my vote will be independent. I wish you well and hope whoever is elected represent Gwent in the best possible manner. Cloth Head
  • Score: 0

7:43pm Sun 11 Nov 12

Chris 4 Gwent P&CC says...

Cloth Head,

I thank you.

I can assure you that this Thursday if I am fortunate enough to get the support of the electorate of Gwent I will represent you in the best possible manner
Cloth Head, I thank you. I can assure you that this Thursday if I am fortunate enough to get the support of the electorate of Gwent I will represent you in the best possible manner Chris 4 Gwent P&CC
  • Score: 0

2:05pm Tue 13 Nov 12

resident @ gwent says...

Chris Wright
- I read with interest your explanation that you only admitted the criminal offense of fraud because you were told that that you could face the sack.

Surely if you admitted a criminal offense you were more likely to face a criminal prosecution or to be sacked for this offense.

Having spoken to retired officers it appears that the Gwent Police complaints dept at that time were more likely to charge you or put you before a disciplinary panel and it appears that the latter actually happened

I can only assume that you must have caught the disciplinary panel on a good day not to have the sack
I have read your explanation at the above web link, but two things come to mind

1. Every criminal who has ever been convicted has claimed that he was not Guilty

2. If you cannot get your overtime claim right how are you going to manage settings budgets of millions of pounds

Ian Johnston is the right candidate for me: -
1. He has experience of investigating crime and running a very large Criminal Investigation Department (CID) (which under his stewardship was one of the most successful in the country), and allocating the large budgets for the numerous departments and units within the CID

2. He is respected locally and nationally and has over 40 years of public service experience to fall back on

Resident @ Gwent
Chris Wright - I read with interest your explanation that you only admitted the criminal offense of fraud because you were told that that you could face the sack. Surely if you admitted a criminal offense you were more likely to face a criminal prosecution or to be sacked for this offense. Having spoken to retired officers it appears that the Gwent Police complaints dept at that time were more likely to charge you or put you before a disciplinary panel and it appears that the latter actually happened I can only assume that you must have caught the disciplinary panel on a good day not to have the sack I have read your explanation at the above web link, but two things come to mind 1. Every criminal who has ever been convicted has claimed that he was not Guilty 2. If you cannot get your overtime claim right how are you going to manage settings budgets of millions of pounds Ian Johnston is the right candidate for me: - 1. He has experience of investigating crime and running a very large Criminal Investigation Department (CID) (which under his stewardship was one of the most successful in the country), and allocating the large budgets for the numerous departments and units within the CID 2. He is respected locally and nationally and has over 40 years of public service experience to fall back on Resident @ Gwent resident @ gwent
  • Score: 0

6:03pm Tue 13 Nov 12

Chris 4 Gwent P&CC says...

Dear resident @ Gwent.

1 - I NEVER admitted a criminal offence of fraud.

2 - I did not admit the offence of fraud ... I admitted a minor misdemeanour of Police Regulations that was apparent AFTER a Sergeant AND Inspector signed and authorised my overtime claim form as lawful, reasonable and suitable for payment. Between us we had over 60 years of policing experience and we all thought it was correct. The fault was in the minutest of details and because there it was in black and white in front of me I pleaded guilty.

3 – Having spoken to retired officers you must have been told the Gwent Constabulary have no authority to charge anyone with fraud. That is the decision for the Crown Prosecution Service and in my case when they were approached, and they were, they dismissed the matter immediately as there was not case for me to answer … and I did not even have to be interviewed because there was no criminal offence. However the cost of the investigation meant that the senior officer in the Gwent had to have a result … so hence the ‘disciplinary’ panel.

4 – I did not catch the disciplinary panel on ‘a good day’. I caught a senior officer, whom I had previously challenged his ability to understand the intricacies of day-to-day policing, and he saw his opportunity to get his personally motivated pay-back. The plea bargain was actually taken with the consent of other VERY senior officers in the police because the personal motivation for revenge by the panel head had been highlighted and the drastic punishment of sacking seen as completely dis-proportionate and would have resulted in probable court action and a degree of public humiliation for the Gwent police. On the day of the hearing another member of the panel … A Chief Superintendent with whom I worked very closely … cringed at the level of the punishment and left the room unable to look me in the eye. Hardly a glowing indictment of fairness, openness or an officer not motivated by revenge and the necessity to discipline me not because of anything I had done but because of the cost of a completely disproportionate investigation.

5 – I was not and have never been guilty of fraud.

6 – I, and I was supported by many others, did get my overtime wrong … but what happened to the others who stated it was correct? … nothing … and I fail to see how this misdemeanour has any relevance of the management of the budget of the Gwent police.

7 – If Ian Johnston is the right candidate for you then I applaud you right to democratic choice.

8 – I reserve the right to challenge all of his ‘credentials’ and ‘experience’ and I invite you to read my web site to find out how.

9 – Just please note I answer you in my name …. I do not hide behind pseudonyms and I am the Independent candidate answering questions put to them in the press!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dear resident @ Gwent. 1 - I NEVER admitted a criminal offence of fraud. 2 - I did not admit the offence of fraud ... I admitted a minor misdemeanour of Police Regulations that was apparent AFTER a Sergeant AND Inspector signed and authorised my overtime claim form as lawful, reasonable and suitable for payment. Between us we had over 60 years of policing experience and we all thought it was correct. The fault was in the minutest of details and because there it was in black and white in front of me I pleaded guilty. 3 – Having spoken to retired officers you must have been told the Gwent Constabulary have no authority to charge anyone with fraud. That is the decision for the Crown Prosecution Service and in my case when they were approached, and they were, they dismissed the matter immediately as there was not case for me to answer … and I did not even have to be interviewed because there was no criminal offence. However the cost of the investigation meant that the senior officer in the Gwent had to have a result … so hence the ‘disciplinary’ panel. 4 – I did not catch the disciplinary panel on ‘a good day’. I caught a senior officer, whom I had previously challenged his ability to understand the intricacies of day-to-day policing, and he saw his opportunity to get his personally motivated pay-back. The plea bargain was actually taken with the consent of other VERY senior officers in the police because the personal motivation for revenge by the panel head had been highlighted and the drastic punishment of sacking seen as completely dis-proportionate and would have resulted in probable court action and a degree of public humiliation for the Gwent police. On the day of the hearing another member of the panel … A Chief Superintendent with whom I worked very closely … cringed at the level of the punishment and left the room unable to look me in the eye. Hardly a glowing indictment of fairness, openness or an officer not motivated by revenge and the necessity to discipline me not because of anything I had done but because of the cost of a completely disproportionate investigation. 5 – I was not and have never been guilty of fraud. 6 – I, and I was supported by many others, did get my overtime wrong … but what happened to the others who stated it was correct? … nothing … and I fail to see how this misdemeanour has any relevance of the management of the budget of the Gwent police. 7 – If Ian Johnston is the right candidate for you then I applaud you right to democratic choice. 8 – I reserve the right to challenge all of his ‘credentials’ and ‘experience’ and I invite you to read my web site to find out how. 9 – Just please note I answer you in my name …. I do not hide behind pseudonyms and I am the Independent candidate answering questions put to them in the press!!!!!!!!!!!! Chris 4 Gwent P&CC
  • Score: 0

6:20pm Tue 13 Nov 12

Dai the Milk says...

Good answer Mr Wright. The dirty tricks brigade are at it already. Throw enough muck and hope some sticks. Personally I am in favour of Mr Sandison because I believe the person assuming this role should not be ex-police. However, you seems an honest and fair man to me and I wish you well in the election.
Good answer Mr Wright. The dirty tricks brigade are at it already. Throw enough muck and hope some sticks. Personally I am in favour of Mr Sandison because I believe the person assuming this role should not be ex-police. However, you seems an honest and fair man to me and I wish you well in the election. Dai the Milk
  • Score: 0

6:23pm Tue 13 Nov 12

pensioner2012 says...

I once again find myself in disbelieve at the lengths the police are prepared to go to spend our money.

above LPRandle says

It's usually the politicians spending our hard earned taxes flying around the world or claiming expenses they should not, but now I see that the senior police officers are allowed to do the same in the Gwent Police, I hope the new Police and Crime commissioner can stop this. We may even get more visible policeman on our streets, I had never realised before reading Mr Johnston's website that this went on and for what possible benefit to us the residents of Gwent area? my friends I have spoken with today feel the same.

Now to get revenge it looks very much like senior officers have spent our money on a witch hunt to try to ride them of someone who would question them. Disgusting!
I once again find myself in disbelieve at the lengths the police are prepared to go to spend our money. above LPRandle says It's usually the politicians spending our hard earned taxes flying around the world or claiming expenses they should not, but now I see that the senior police officers are allowed to do the same in the Gwent Police, I hope the new Police and Crime commissioner can stop this. We may even get more visible policeman on our streets, I had never realised before reading Mr Johnston's website that this went on and for what possible benefit to us the residents of Gwent area? my friends I have spoken with today feel the same. Now to get revenge it looks very much like senior officers have spent our money on a witch hunt to try to ride them of someone who would question them. Disgusting! pensioner2012
  • Score: 0

6:44pm Tue 13 Nov 12

Chris 4 Gwent P&CC says...

Dai the Milk and pensioner 2012.

Honesty really is the best and only policy.
Dai the Milk and pensioner 2012. Honesty really is the best and only policy. Chris 4 Gwent P&CC
  • Score: 0

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