Giving up on God - new figures show more are turning their back on religion (From South Wales Argus)
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Giving up on God - new figures show more are turning their back on religion
10:07am Wednesday 12th December 2012 in News
By David Deans, Reporter
BUCKING THE TREND: The Rev Bob Buchanan says the congregation at his Blaenau Gwent Baptist Church is stable but many people in the area have ‘lost God’
YESTERDAY statisticians from the Office for National Statistics revealed more results from the 2011 Census, showing fewer of us believe in God, own homes or speak Welsh. DAVID DEANS reports.
BLAENAU Gwent has the highest proportion of people who say they have no religion than any other part of Wales.
It also has the third-highest proportion across England and Wales.
That’s according to Census 2011 data published by Office for National Statistics yesterday, which said that 41.1 per cent of people in the county ticked the ‘no religion’ box.
Caerphilly county came second with 40.9 per cent of people saying they don’t believe in any kind of God.
Blaenau Gwent also had Wales’ lowest rate of people saying they were Christian, at 49.9 per cent, while in Caerphilly the rate was 50.7 per cent.
The two boroughs are not alone, and across Wales almost one-third of the country said it had no religion.
The figures are higher than for any English region.
Clergymen told the Argus that people are more honest now about their religious faith than in the past – while one minister said some churches find it difficult to keep up their membership.
The Rev Bob Buchanan, of Abertillery’s Blaenau Gwent Baptist Church, said: “In our church we have stayed pretty stable over the course of the 15 years.
“But I think at other churches in the area numbers are going down and down to where there are just five or six members.”
He added: “People have given up here, given up on God.”
But the Rev Geoff Waggett, rector of Ebbw Vale, said he has seen little change in numbers at the three churches he is responsible for.
“In the last couple of years... people are either coming for the first time or coming back to the church,” he said.
Father Mark Soady, vicar of Abergavenny, said he believed people were more honest about not being religious than they might have been in the past.
“There was a habit in the past of saying they were Church of England even it they weren’t,” he said.
In Torfaen 35.8 per cent of people said they had no religion, while 55.4 per cent said they were Christian.
Monmouthshire had the highest proportion of Christians in Gwent at 62.5 per cent, with only 28.5 per cent saying they had no faith, while 29.7 per cent of Newport people said they were not religious.
In the city 56.9 per cent of people said they were Christian. Newport had the second-highest rate of Muslims in Wales, with 4.7 per cent of people classing themselves as such.
I was made welcome here – Zimbabwean asylum-seeker
THE number of people born outside the UK living in Wales has risen between 2001 and 2011 – but the nation remains predominantly white.
There were 92,000 more people who were born outside the UK according to the results of the 2011 Census.
But 96 per cent of the resident population – 2.9 million – was white in 2011, more than any other English region.
Newport had the second-highest number of people who were born outside the European Union at 5.7 per cent of the population.
It has the second-lowest proportion of white people of any local authority area in Wales – 87 per cent.
Almost everyone in Blaenau Gwent – 90.3 per cent – was born in Wales, the highest rate in the country, followed by Caerphilly at 88.6 per cent.
Robert Muza, 42, of Newport’s Somerton area, came to the UK in 2002 from Zimbabwe.
Mr Muza came to the UK as an asylumseeker after he left his home country because he was a member of the then opposition party, the Movement for Democratic Change.
He said when he first arrived in Newport people were more welcoming and friendly than they had been where he was living in north London, helping him get from the railway station to his friend’s home in Barrack Hill. A father of two, who is a student at the University of Newport, said: “I fell in love with Newport.”
More rent from private landlord
THE number of people living in privately rented accommodation in Wales has risen by five per cent since the 2001 Census.
A total of 165,000 people in Wales told the Census that they live in properties they rent from a private landlord, up from 90,000 in 2001.
At the same time the number of people living in homes they own with a mortgage or a loan has fallen from 37 per cent to 32 per cent.
Newport had the highest rate of people living in privately rented accommodation in Gwent and the seventh in Wales, at 12.9 per cent. Torfaen had the lowest at 7.5 per cent.
Estate agent Alan Darlow, director of Roberts estate agents, said there had been a cultural change.
“The culture has changed now with more and more people renting, a little bit like Europe.”
He said his agency had got into lettings a few years ago when it had seen “the writing on the wall”.
Meanwhile, Blaenau Gwent had the third-highest rate in Wales of people who suffer from a long-term health problem or disability that restricts their dayto- day activities “a lot”.
The ONS says that 15.7 per cent of the population describe themselves as such.
It also had the second-highest rate of people who said they had a bad state of health, at 8.2 per cent of the population.
Overall four out of five people in Wales said they were in good or very good health.
Just under a quarter of those living in Wales had a longterm limiting illness, higher than any English region.
Last ten years sees decline in Welsh-speakers
THE proportion of people speaking Welsh in Wales fell by 1.7 per cent between 2001 and 2011 – with three Gwent counties recording falling numbers of speakers.
However, the number of speakers increased in the border county of Monmouthshire and remained steady in Caerphilly.
In Gwent as a whole 54,958 people said they spoke Welsh. In Blaenau Gwent the number of speakers fell by 1.6 per cent to 5,284.
There were 8,641 Welsh-speakers in Torfaen, down by 1.3 per cent, while there were 13,002 Welsh-speakers in Newport, a drop of 0.7 per cent.
Figures rose by 0.6 per cent in Monmouthshire to 8,780.
However, the proportion of people who spoke Welsh remained steady in Caerphilly, where 19,251 people speak the language.
All authorities in Wales, apart from Monmouthshire, saw a decrease in the number of children able to speak Welsh.
Elin Maher, development officer of Menter Iaith Casnewydd, said she wasn’t disheartened by the figures, which she said painted a truer picture of the situation than the 2001 Census had.
Ms Maher, whose group helps set up Welsh-speaking events for speakers and learners in Newport, said: “We need to be looking more at investing more in the Welsh language in communities.”
Yesterday’s figures also revealed that nearly two-thirds of Wales, two million, told the 2011 Census their national identity was Welsh.
Only 218,000 people considered themselves to be British as well.
Blaenau Gwent had the third highest percentage of people in Wales giving their national identity as Welsh-only, at 72.4 per cent, while 8.2 per cent said they were Welsh and British.
Comments(67)
Shillabeers nemesis
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12:25pm Wed 12 Dec 12
arjwain
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1:34pm Wed 12 Dec 12
Dai the Milk
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1:50pm Wed 12 Dec 12
ds of sports, religions and gossip magazines to choose from. That's progress for you.
Owain Vaughan
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2:05pm Wed 12 Dec 12
Dai the Milk
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2:25pm Wed 12 Dec 12
Gareth
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2:50pm Wed 12 Dec 12
Dai the Milk wrote:Now now Dai. Surely you know that God does not exist.
Be careful Owain. You said there is no such thing as Gwent too. I assure you there is.
It was a failed local government experiment. Born 1974BC to universal emptiness. Died 2003 in the Da Vinci Code - NINE YEARS AGO
Dai the Milk
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2:52pm Wed 12 Dec 12
username2
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3:37pm Wed 12 Dec 12
Gun her
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3:40pm Wed 12 Dec 12
It would be good to hear people's reasons
Dai the Milk
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3:42pm Wed 12 Dec 12
jayne1981
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3:46pm Wed 12 Dec 12
Gun her
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3:53pm Wed 12 Dec 12
This may be due to so many denominations. Each have their own pet version of God
Owain Vaughan
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3:53pm Wed 12 Dec 12
newport city of dreams
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4:30pm Wed 12 Dec 12
Gareth
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4:30pm Wed 12 Dec 12
The younger generations have far less need for a church: we can access our own information; have other opportunities to meet other people; have other means to learn what is or isn't right; have other things to interest us and take up our time etc.
So I guess that the people of 2012 haven't so much "turned their back on religion", as never being interested in the first place.
Dai the Milk
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4:31pm Wed 12 Dec 12
Owain Vaughan
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4:43pm Wed 12 Dec 12
city. Am I right?
cath 872
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5:06pm Wed 12 Dec 12
Gun her
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5:27pm Wed 12 Dec 12
Dai the Milk
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5:37pm Wed 12 Dec 12
newport city of dreams
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5:46pm Wed 12 Dec 12
Dee-Gee
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5:51pm Wed 12 Dec 12
Gun her wrote:Because congregations of every religion, from Islam to Neo-Pagan, seem to very quickly become a crushing force of conformity, with no tolerance of any deviation from the group-think.
Why are people giving up on God and Religion
It would be good to hear people's reasons
That's been my experience, anyway. So, I gave up on the idea that my fellow humans knew sod-all about the Divine, and now just whisper the odd prayer to "Anybody Out there?" now and again when I feel the urge. Feels a bit silly, but at least it doesn't do any harm.
Gun her
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5:55pm Wed 12 Dec 12
I have a faith in God but I cannot prove that there is a God
Mervyn James
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6:39pm Wed 12 Dec 12
Owain Vaughan wrote:Owain is from Mon-Mouth-Shire, they gave up on Wales years ago lol.... If man had no God he would still invent one, hence why the modern alternatives of greed, nastiness, and gormless celebrity worship rules.... we HAVE to believe there is something greater than ourselves, else we get a big head and all that entails.....
What went wrong? People are finally wising up and casting off their mediæval mental crutches and you think it's a bad thing? No-one is "giving up on God" as there is no such thing to begin with.
Dave on his Soapbox
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6:58pm Wed 12 Dec 12
http://en.wikipedia.
org/wiki/Gwent
Gun her
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7:00pm Wed 12 Dec 12
Dai the Milk
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8:13pm Wed 12 Dec 12
Dee-Gee wrote:I gather even Dragons supporters do that just before every game.
Gun her wrote:Because congregations of every religion, from Islam to Neo-Pagan, seem to very quickly become a crushing force of conformity, with no tolerance of any deviation from the group-think.
Why are people giving up on God and Religion
It would be good to hear people's reasons
That's been my experience, anyway. So, I gave up on the idea that my fellow humans knew sod-all about the Divine, and now just whisper the odd prayer to "Anybody Out there?" now and again when I feel the urge. Feels a bit silly, but at least it doesn't do any harm.
Dai the Milk
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8:18pm Wed 12 Dec 12
Gun her wrote:I think it was Descartes who said 'I think therefore I am'. I like to think 'I drink therefore I am'. I have every faith in Gwent and I can also prove it exists because I drive the length of it once a week.
Can you prove the existence of Gwent or is it a faith
chris2727
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8:20pm Wed 12 Dec 12
Gareth
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8:29pm Wed 12 Dec 12
lowandhardandinthecorner
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8:33pm Wed 12 Dec 12
" god is an invention of man, the real mystery therefore is not the nature of god but the nature of man "
Well done to those who have come to the obvious conclusion about the existence of fairytale sky monsters and getting some reward when they cease to exist (except as part of the nitrogen cycle,of course ) how likely is heaven? - laughable! It's good to be free of the guilt trip of religion and think for yourself.
chris2727
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10:06pm Wed 12 Dec 12
Dai the Milk
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10:59pm Wed 12 Dec 12
Mervyn James
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8:09am Thu 13 Dec 12
Gun her wrote:10,000 silures can't be wrong and they were here first....:) a lot of Cornwall belonged to Wales too...
Can you prove the existence of Gwent or is it a faith
alongfortheride
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12:51pm Thu 13 Dec 12
Katie Re-Registered
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1:21pm Thu 13 Dec 12
parcel
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4:44pm Thu 13 Dec 12
With its smells, bells and incessant boredom, and men wearing funny hats and cloaks............
But the true church which gives freedom, and sets u free, is flourishing!
"He whom the Son sets free, is free indeed"!
Next Church for the "called out ones"!
tking
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7:07pm Thu 13 Dec 12
The question of Divinity should be a matter of faith and not bandied around as fact, because nobody in truth knows!
And they also realised the effect of what Jesus was saying on people, why did they pick on an out of work, working class carpenter? simple, if it was a rich merchant the scam would have died at birth.
Notice how Mary his mother was slowly airbrushed out to eventually create the myth of the "emaculate consception",any 22 year old male living in those days would almost certainly have been married,Marx was never against what Jesus was supposed to have said but what he did point out was "all empires fail" and that "nations that enslave others enslave themselves" a reference to the Roman Empire collapsing via economic problems,no wonder they call the Church of England the Tory party at prayer! and the hirarchy in the church have been in collusion for centuries,Jesus was for, among many things,a roof over peoples heads, clothes on their back, and food in their bellies,so witness the Catholic church, one of the richest institutions in the world, yet millions who follow are living in unbelievable squalor around the world,I know they are profoundly decent people who follow and do great work, I have seen this when I was in Africa and the Middle East, but I believe this ordinary man was a fighter for the oppressed against the oppressor, wherever in the world.
Mervyn James
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7:15pm Thu 13 Dec 12
alongfortheride wrote:Do tell, what is more important than a real belief in something ? X-factor winners ? soap operas ? The fact we all seek something else, can still be construed as a desire to 'know'. Nothing quoted here is offering us insight or knowledge, just derision. So none of it of real value,anyone can knock something down, but building takes real effort.
This is the most progress the people of Gwent have made in a long time. Lets hope the trend continues religion is slowly abolished and we can all get on with the important things in life.
alongfortheride
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8:12pm Thu 13 Dec 12
Mervyn James wrote:The amount of fail in your comment is too much for me to go into in great length. I am not going to sit here and debate with you the obvious problems religion (a device used to controls the masses) has caused over the last thousand or so years. However what I will comment on is the obvious reference that because I denounced religion you instantly decided that I was suggesting replacing it with demeaning pop culture.
alongfortheride wrote:Do tell, what is more important than a real belief in something ? X-factor winners ? soap operas ? The fact we all seek something else, can still be construed as a desire to 'know'. Nothing quoted here is offering us insight or knowledge, just derision. So none of it of real value,anyone can knock something down, but building takes real effort.
This is the most progress the people of Gwent have made in a long time. Lets hope the trend continues religion is slowly abolished and we can all get on with the important things in life.
Lets say replace it with science, replace it with proper social learning, replace it with dealing with the worlds problems. I'm sorry but a 'real belief in something' is a non sequitur. It is a real belief in nothing. And no I am not going to get into an argument of faith or belief or proof. The burden of proof is on the people who belief and they can't provide it.
Religion is the cause of so many problems we would now in this day and age be better off without it. Tax relief? Joke, the money the catholic, christian, muslim faiths have would solve alot of problems in the world. Instead they use it for the selfish reasons of helping a few in order to guarantee themselves a place in whatever afterlife they believe in, so in essence to serve themselves. Why not be selfless and give up the organisational church and donate the billions held to help? Will never happen.
I seek knowledge, truth and to be a good decent person and help those I can. No God or faith is required to give me my set of morals! Lets start building like you say, lets start building a world where old scripts and stories that are contradictory and left to interpretation are left behind and we move forward with a single goal to do things better.
An atheists world would be a far more peaceful place than any religious one!
Dai the Milk
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11:03pm Fri 14 Dec 12
Mervyn James
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11:08am Sat 15 Dec 12
alongfortheride wrote:If we never had religion we would still be seeking answers to questions, maybe religion offers a simplistic/faith-riv
Mervyn James wrote:The amount of fail in your comment is too much for me to go into in great length. I am not going to sit here and debate with you the obvious problems religion (a device used to controls the masses) has caused over the last thousand or so years. However what I will comment on is the obvious reference that because I denounced religion you instantly decided that I was suggesting replacing it with demeaning pop culture.
alongfortheride wrote:Do tell, what is more important than a real belief in something ? X-factor winners ? soap operas ? The fact we all seek something else, can still be construed as a desire to 'know'. Nothing quoted here is offering us insight or knowledge, just derision. So none of it of real value,anyone can knock something down, but building takes real effort.
This is the most progress the people of Gwent have made in a long time. Lets hope the trend continues religion is slowly abolished and we can all get on with the important things in life.
Lets say replace it with science, replace it with proper social learning, replace it with dealing with the worlds problems. I'm sorry but a 'real belief in something' is a non sequitur. It is a real belief in nothing. And no I am not going to get into an argument of faith or belief or proof. The burden of proof is on the people who belief and they can't provide it.
Religion is the cause of so many problems we would now in this day and age be better off without it. Tax relief? Joke, the money the catholic, christian, muslim faiths have would solve alot of problems in the world. Instead they use it for the selfish reasons of helping a few in order to guarantee themselves a place in whatever afterlife they believe in, so in essence to serve themselves. Why not be selfless and give up the organisational church and donate the billions held to help? Will never happen.
I seek knowledge, truth and to be a good decent person and help those I can. No God or faith is required to give me my set of morals! Lets start building like you say, lets start building a world where old scripts and stories that are contradictory and left to interpretation are left behind and we move forward with a single goal to do things better.
An atheists world would be a far more peaceful place than any religious one!
en answer, but scientists have religion too. I read every day comments deriding religion and blaming them for everything that ever went wrong, but given Wales is a Godless society the problems still continue.
I laugh at those who say "I don't need to be told about being good, or having morals..' Where did the idea originate ? erm... from Christianity... People are naturally barbaric and cruel, without 'rules' be they from a government or from a religion, barbarians are exactly what we would revert to.
Personally I feel safer with them.
Mervyn James
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11:11am Sat 15 Dec 12
alongfortheride
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12:00pm Sat 15 Dec 12
Mervyn James wrote:Mervyn, religion was a device created to control the masses in a time where control was a real issue, when the world was a much bigger place and an all seeing God was needed.
Do I trust YOU to keep us all on the straight and narrow ? erm.. sorry no I don't, a person without belief is without direction and aimless, and I HATE cest la vie comments, they are mostly excuses for having no view and no values and leaving the result it to others.
This is why all earlier texts relating to religion are a vengeful wrathful god. When people started seeing it being taken literally and needed change he became all forgiving. A concept made up by the people seeking control.
Scientists are not a religious people. Yes there are individuals who theists like to point out time and time again but the majority or the scientific community are athiests and base their findings on fact and not beliefs that cannot be quantified.
To say that religion is the reason people stay good, that religion is the reason for morals is a blinkered view and an apologist way of defending faith. Are you saying that because I am not religious that I have no morals, that I am not a good person. I am good because I feel we should be good to fellow man, not because I want to win a golden ticket into an afterlife that most likely does not exist and has no proof of existing.
There are no questions that religion answers in a straight way that does not contradict itself in some way later down the line. If you want answers you have to look at fact.
And losing religion would not solve all the worlds problems over night, but it would save alot of hardship and save alot of lives, those who die in the name of religion and holy wars.
And not withstanding your own lack of faith in people I am of the firm belief that religion is not what keeps people from barbarianism. From the dawn of time man has realised that working together is the way to move forward in life. If so we would never have left the caves form which we started. Even animals understand the mutual advantages of working together at times.
There are always individualistic differences that lead to problems but not on the scale of my God is right and your god is wrong. Take the church and all the good they do, remove the religion and BANG, they would all suddenly be working for the same goal rather than fighting amongst themselves.
Do not mistake me for someone with no views or values. I have both in abundance and am insulted you would presume otherwise because I do not put blind faith into something that cannot be quantified past the
anecdotal.
And please don't cite Christianity as being the milestone in good and morals, read up on religion and you will find that is really not the case. There was a time that islam was promoting peace and fellowship as your christian God was demanding the babies of non believers be smashed on the steps of their homes.
Until you know the history and origins and results of your religion better than me then it is an insult to comment.
This is the problem, most Atheists have researched religion with an objective mind and come to a logical conclusion only to have misunderstanding and faith comments made.
And to quote yourself I find it mostly excuses for those having no view of their own, no values of their own, no objectivity and leaving the real result to others.
There are Christian and Jewish schools who teach children! Children that the Earth is only 6000 years old and in intelligent design!
If we were hoping on religion to answer questions we would not have electricity and still be living in the past stoning infidels in the street for not doing GODS will.
Please
Mervyn James
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2:10pm Sun 16 Dec 12
alongfortheride
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2:13pm Sun 16 Dec 12
By your logic more crimes are committed by those who do not believe in God, and because of those ten commandments society operates with rules!?
Are you serious?
So all those entire swarves of people who never bought into Christianity and the ten commandments are a group of barbarians?
Heard of the Westero Baptist Church? They love the ten commandments! And the bible... literally.
username2
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12:36pm Mon 17 Dec 12
lowandhardandinthecorner
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1:26pm Mon 17 Dec 12
I too am insulted that someone would think I had no morals because I don't believe in gods of any kind.
I have always tried to behave in an honest, kind and caring way to my fellow man and chose a profession in the health service to help in some small way.
Like " alongfortheride ", I have studied quite a few religions and am totally unconvinced by them all.
If I told a christian that I believed in a purple dragon that lived behind Twm Barlwm then I suspect that he would require soom proof of it's existence. I expect no less from him.
alongfortheride
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3:16pm Mon 17 Dec 12
Just because lots of people believe something That doesn't make it truth. Once upon a time everyone believed the world was flat. One person said it wasn't!
Sorry but at the current state of evidence for faith I'm confident in saying there is no god. The difference between atheists and theists is Thayer if you showed me proof there was good I would accept it. If I "proved" their wasn't a god with evidential fact then they would discount it and spout the old and worn faith argument.
Gun her
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5:03pm Mon 17 Dec 12
Can Atheists and Agnostics prove that God doesn't exist
Why are we here on earth, what is existence all about
alongfortheride
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5:09pm Mon 17 Dec 12
Prove that I'm not the next saviour gun?? Prove that I am not.
If I make a claim its up to me to prove it not for you to disprove it
Gun her
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5:15pm Mon 17 Dec 12
I have not made a claim
I find it a common occurrence for people to slag of a religious person, eg Muslim, Buddhist Christian
Yet offer nothing constructive in its place
Do you believe in something
alongfortheride
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5:26pm Mon 17 Dec 12
You can offer no evidence there is a god.
I do not believe in any deity at all. I believe that people are inherently good.
I appreciate people in faith do good. I challenge their motives. They are good to get into heaven.
I am good because I want to be good.
I cannot make it any clearer than I already have.
Don't get me started on agnostics. Pick a side.
And they keep questioning it because logically the concept of a god and the basis of your beliefs are ridiculous.
Gun her
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5:34pm Mon 17 Dec 12
I did not challenge you. I asked the question of anybody
If people of faith do good works why do you have to challenge their motives
Why not be glad that they are doing good
I am trying to look at the evidence for the existence/non existence of God.
alongfortheride
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5:46pm Mon 17 Dec 12
For all the good that has been done there has been far more bad done in the name of god or gods.
As I said remove religion and god and the church organisations would be great.
Look at those who get stoned in the name of god. People who get molested and the offenders are hidden by the church. Look at every holy war
I can save you a lot of time my friend. There is NO real evidence of a god.
And if you want to see some of the good work done by deep Christians in the name of god following the bible literally google westero Baptist church
alongfortheride
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6:45pm Mon 17 Dec 12
Gun, atheists will not try and prove there is no god, they do not need to. There is some great reading about burden of proof and the concept behind it.
What frustrates me, and please folks don't take frustration as a personal attack on anyone with faith is that so many people say it is a power for good. Well I would challenge that I find the concept of religion a system of control. Yes it encourages good things but at the detriment of others, if one is not a member of the club then that person is damned to eternal condemnation after they die.
Now if a God was to exist then it is a pretty poor God who gives people the ability to make a choice then punishes them for making the wrong choice.
For all the good people of faith do, there are many more who in the name if god, be it extremists of people who follow the scriptures literally who do a lot of bad. People die in the name of god every day from all religions.
If the churches accepted that god did not exist yet continued their work then the interfaiths could stop squabbling and do so much more good.
The power of the church is frightening in today's day and age. We have learnt so much about this wonderful universe, this wonderful planet why add something that has no evidence into the mix? Why not concentrate on what we have in front of us?
Just because we don't have an answer to a question why say that it's down to a god. Thousands of years ago if you showed someone a fire they would have worshipped you and thought you a god, it's only through learning and understanding that we can now explain it. If we worked with a religious outlook then it would have just been accepted that it was divine and no further questions would have been asked.
We have one chance to make a mark on this world, we should not waste it in churches, we should step up and make a difference ourselves, not for an afterlife but just to help our fellow man.
Unfortunately in many countries if one is not a Prodestant or certain type of Muslim then that is a death sentance.
There are far more important things to think and worry about.
Google christopher hitchins and watch some of is work on the web.
Or Richard Dawkins and his documentaries challenging religion and the response he gets.
I hope this helps explain my own views on the subject.
Mervyn James
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8:08pm Mon 17 Dec 12
alongfortheride
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8:15pm Mon 17 Dec 12
My understanding is that it has a varying number of definitions in different cultures and a form of it was around before Jesus Christ came along.
Seems to be the understanding of most educated people as well.
Just another group of people the church can alienate.
Yes Leviticus condemns it but in Samuel the outlook is quite different.
But hey who am I to complain, Christians have selected the parts of the bible they want to believe in over others for no reason other than bigotry for years.
Another uneducated and non researched statement from Melvyn. Also glad to see you decide when the debate is over.
regescu72
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10:51pm Mon 17 Dec 12
Mervyn James
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9:28am Tue 18 Dec 12
alongfortheride wrote:At least get the name right. I'm not interested in different cultures as we were talking about the UK which isn't even an multicultural society. You won't see many marrying via Sharia law in our Christian churches. Nor I venture to suggest many gays either !
I suggest you read up on the definition of marriage.
My understanding is that it has a varying number of definitions in different cultures and a form of it was around before Jesus Christ came along.
Seems to be the understanding of most educated people as well.
Just another group of people the church can alienate.
Yes Leviticus condemns it but in Samuel the outlook is quite different.
But hey who am I to complain, Christians have selected the parts of the bible they want to believe in over others for no reason other than bigotry for years.
Another uneducated and non researched statement from Melvyn. Also glad to see you decide when the debate is over.
It is up to Christians to decide themselves what they follow or not, not you nor I, as neither of us are obviously practising Christians via any church. I respect their right to choose, I do not respect your right to oppose that. I don't respect the Gay right to challenge either, if they prefer let them set up on their own a religion then they can do what they want, there is no need to attempt to destroy another religion to prove an point, that lets face it is not universally accepted by us but by a noisy,out-of-control lobby based in London.
alongfortheride
says...
10:02am Tue 18 Dec 12
And removing a religion sorry would be a great thing.
Look at Ireland!
Mervyn James
says...
10:31am Tue 18 Dec 12
As you and i have no 'religion' what are we discussing ? others shouldn't have it ? we are back to people's rights again. one billion people are catholics, you tell them they can't have a belief....
alongfortheride
says...
11:02am Tue 18 Dec 12
Your stats are anecdotal and read like the daily mail. We are multicultural and the majority live and work together in harmony. Stop believing the mail and red top papers and do some actual research
username2
says...
1:10pm Tue 18 Dec 12
lowandhardandinthecorner
says...
7:38pm Tue 18 Dec 12
People who believe in a god would have to admit that the object of their worship should have been sacked years ago for incompetence.
What a shambles he makes of running the shop, with mass starvations,
epidemics and ethnic cleansings.
Worship him, what a laugh - he should be imprisoned if we ever get him to court.
lowandhardandinthecorner
says...
7:39pm Tue 18 Dec 12
People who believe in a god would have to admit that the object of their worship should have been sacked years ago for incompetence.
What a shambles he makes of running the shop, with mass starvations,
epidemics and ethnic cleansings.
Worship him, what a laugh - he should be imprisoned if we ever get him to court.
nehpets snave says...
10:32am Wed 12 Dec 12