Newport man can keep Islamic sign on home (From South Wales Argus)
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Newport man can keep Islamic sign on home
5:20pm Tuesday 19th February 2013 in News
PLEASED: Mahmood Ali can keep his sign spelling out the Islamic creed on his Newport home
A NEWPORT businessman has won his fight to keep the Islamic creed on his home.
Mahmood Ali won an appeal against a decision by Newport planners to refuse consent for a green Arabic sign that gives the declaration of the muslim faith on his Chepstow Road house.
The story made international headlines and attracted hundreds of online comments.
Mr Ali appealed to the planning inspector after Newport council refused consent for the green sign on the basis its size and position made it an obtrusive advertisement.
The clothes shop owner said everyone should have the right to have such a blessing on their home, and says it is not an advert.
He said: "I'm very pleased, its a very good decision. It's a good way forward so people can feel comfortable living in the UK.
"If a neighbour wanted to put a George cross on their house I wouldn't have any objection whatsoever. I would respect it fully."
Mr Ali said he had been hurt by some of the internet comments, saying he considered Wales to be his first home.
He said he had neighbours had given positive and negative comments about the sign - he said he would try to make them understand what the sign means to him.
"It's not to show anything off. It's just for religious purposes only," he added.
Mr Ali said it had been a tough period for him, with the loss of his close friend Shaukat Hayat who died with four other members of his family in Saudi Arabia.
Mr Hayat had planned to represent Mr Ali at his appeal hearing last week.
In a report on his decision planning inspector Tim Belcher said the size of the sign was acceptable given the large proportions of the house and that the green colour - used as it is associated with peace in Islam - did not make the symbols garish.
He said the sign, which is two metres wide and 60cm high, preserves the character and appearance of the house and the surrounding conservation area.
Although Mr Ali says the sign is not an advert, it was accepted by both parties that it fell within advertising regulations.
Mr Belcher granted consent for the sign saying the sign should be kept clean and tidy.
Story was read worldwide
THE Argus' story about the Arabic sign was carried by news outlets across the UK and abroad - and attracted more than 150 comments on our website alone.
Majid Rahman, councillor for Victoria ward which covers Maindee, questioned whether the story would have got as much press if it wasn't to do with Islam, and suggested some comments were Islamophobic.
One writer on the Argus site said he thought the sign should be removed "and all mosques opposed," while another it was "a wind up for others". Another implied Britain was becoming an "Islamic republic".
Cllr Rahman said he was pleased with the decision of the planning inspector, and said the sign was "not hurting anyone."
Speaking about the website comments, he said: "I don't think people understand the background of a planning application or the cultural sensitivities towards it. I haven't come across anyone in the community in Newport who has made that sort of comment."
"I think Islamophobia may have played a part in it. I don't think all of the comments were Islamophobic. "Some of the comments may have been."
He added: "If it wasn't to do with Islam could it have got so much press?"
Comments(82)
Lastpost
says...
5:58pm Tue 19 Feb 13
I wonder if this will be the start of a friendly competition similar to those 'beat your neighbour Xmas lights displays'.
Nospin_1
says...
6:45pm Tue 19 Feb 13
rightsideup
says...
7:55pm Tue 19 Feb 13
arjwain
says...
9:21pm Tue 19 Feb 13
Nospin_1 wrote:you are so right .
Bet if it been a christian message it would have been down.!!
if the council for what ever reason sets these rules they should be kept .not just buckle . just incase they riot ,
newport girl
says...
9:43pm Tue 19 Feb 13
D Taylor
says...
9:49pm Tue 19 Feb 13
P C Neilson
says...
10:18pm Tue 19 Feb 13
Mr. Ali's sighn is very nice in its out of the way, unimposing on the "community" way. Who cares what it says eh. Not me. Harmless enough.
Now imagine streets full of them, the houses of whole neighbourhoods proudly wearing their garish messages. Did you not look at Birmingham et al, like Mr. Ali suggested you do Mr. Belcher. Classy and not an eye sore at all, the "community" are bound too agree. Well done.
The British are far too reserved about their faith to follow suit (thank your chosen god if you wish) so at least it will only be ancient arabic everywhere and not 'fish' houses too. You think it's going to be an option to refuse one of these now?
So Mr. Belcher, you won't mind when I put 'HAIL SATAN!' on my house, then.
It isn't an advertisement, it's a religion. It will be in red, the colour of the god I worship, the dark lord beelzebub, so it's not garish at all. Go on please, my dog died last week, and some faceless commentators on the interweb said mean things about it. If you say no, you hate Satan. Jackass!
Mike_J
says...
11:16pm Tue 19 Feb 13
Fills my heart with glee, especially after all the abusive comments received and seen on this website.
Justice has been served!
ex-St. Julians boy
says...
12:03am Wed 20 Feb 13
P C Neilson
says...
12:34am Wed 20 Feb 13
ex-St. Julians boy wrote:"There is no god but Allah and Mohammed is his messenger.”
What's it say in English then?
stjulians
says...
1:40am Wed 20 Feb 13
P C Neilson wrote:I remember this story when it was first put in the Argus and the decision was outstanding... and now it's back and I've seriously considered whether I should comment or just let it go by... if I don't comment it suggests "I don't care, everyone carry on as they should"; if I do comment any comment I might have may be seen as racist (and that probably stems from the Britishness in me)... but hand on heart I feel this shouldn't be allowed, it isn't a religious premise, if it was small and unobtrusive no-one would have an issue but the actual translation of the sign in a Christian country is something that should not be allowed. I do feel that if this message was said in another country, with any other religion (and I stress any other religion, I'm NOT naming any in particular), that it would not be accepted - because of the translation. It is dismissive of the countries religion that it is being shown in. I am not a religious person, I don't goto church, but I would respect a Christian's person view if they had to pass the sign day-in-day-out as it seems derogatory to their belief. I believe that this comment, according to site rules, is not abusive or malicious, I am accepting of a multicultural society, to be honest, that's how the majority of us live now-a-days, but with this in mind, I believe it is something that should not have been granted consent.
ex-St. Julians boy wrote:"There is no god but Allah and Mohammed is his messenger.”
What's it say in English then?
merlin the silure
says...
6:40am Wed 20 Feb 13
,etc etc have caved in as they are terriied of being labelled as "racist".
ianzemma
says...
7:54am Wed 20 Feb 13
displayed
says...
8:08am Wed 20 Feb 13
Of course they should!
So when is someone going to put up a sign with:
"God is good all the time"!
Its simple and to the point!
Do you think that would be allowed!
I dont think so!
Welcome to Saudi Arabia!
Sharia is just round the corner............
displayed
says...
8:14am Wed 20 Feb 13
The guys puts a sign, doesn't have planning permission then goes to appeal!
That's how mussies get around planning laws!
There's a lot more to come!
He's gonna starting lighting it up next!
Its already wired for it!
He was just waiting for the inevitable outcome!
It will be a mosque next!
GogExile
says...
8:29am Wed 20 Feb 13
In the Islamic colour of peace - green. Same colour as the Hamas flag then. You know, those people who's charter calls for the extermination of all Jews.
Just saying like.
displayed
says...
8:30am Wed 20 Feb 13
How can it not be an advert, if it has to fall within "advertising regulations"
Any "statement" on a building is an advert!
Otherwise why put it up!
Re; advert
To turn ones attention to.
To call attention; to refer.
To promote a product
To attract one to
To inform............
ADVERTISING SIGN - A sign which directs attention to a business, commodity or service.
He's a business man, so its to be expected he's gonna promote himself!
displayed
says...
8:34am Wed 20 Feb 13
Sharia law, yes!
"Majid Rahman, councillor for Victoria ward which covers Maindee"
Of course he doesn't have any ulterior motive for backing this!
Hmmmmmmmmm..........
......
displayed
says...
8:40am Wed 20 Feb 13
Total and unqualified submission to the will of Allah (God) is the fundamental tenet of Islam: Islamic law is therefore the expression of Allah’s command for Muslim society and, in application, constitutes a system of duties that are incumbent upon a Muslim by virtue of his religious belief. Known as the Sharīʿah (literally, “the path leading to the watering place”), the law constitutes a divinely ordained path of conduct.
They are compelled to do what they do!
They have no choice and its in Maindee and surrounding areas!
godobe
says...
9:12am Wed 20 Feb 13
Mervyn James
says...
9:29am Wed 20 Feb 13
P C Neilson wrote:It sets unequal precedent. We cannot do the same. As the furore exhibited most thought it yet another 'Islamic' thumbed nose at christians. It is the way of the UK world you see Arabic you see mosques you don't see a religion, you see a terrorist or a threat. Islamic need to be more mindful of how they are seen, why couldn't the sign be in English ? we are multicultural....or aren't we ? It is the determined drive to be who they are and not integrate with us ? rather than involve us they set up own areas, this is a recipe for confrontation. The British are getting too soft frankly,it is one thing to be accepting, but if it is only one way.... They talk about 'House', this IS NOT a house, it appears to be a block of flats with exclusive Asian tenants, and a hall inside to pray in. Maybe planners need to IDENTIFY what this building actually IS.
How delightful. Foregoing any questions about listed buildings, the recent(ish) case about the guy being threatened with fines for (tastefully) brass spotlighting his business sign (I think it was a restaurant) without checking first, and what the hell 'cultural sensitivity' or snarky comments or colour would have to do with it, what was Tim Belcher thinking?
Mr. Ali's sighn is very nice in its out of the way, unimposing on the "community" way. Who cares what it says eh. Not me. Harmless enough.
Now imagine streets full of them, the houses of whole neighbourhoods proudly wearing their garish messages. Did you not look at Birmingham et al, like Mr. Ali suggested you do Mr. Belcher. Classy and not an eye sore at all, the "community" are bound too agree. Well done.
The British are far too reserved about their faith to follow suit (thank your chosen god if you wish) so at least it will only be ancient arabic everywhere and not 'fish' houses too. You think it's going to be an option to refuse one of these now?
So Mr. Belcher, you won't mind when I put 'HAIL SATAN!' on my house, then.
It isn't an advertisement, it's a religion. It will be in red, the colour of the god I worship, the dark lord beelzebub, so it's not garish at all. Go on please, my dog died last week, and some faceless commentators on the interweb said mean things about it. If you say no, you hate Satan. Jackass!
Trefor
says...
9:32am Wed 20 Feb 13
"There is no Allha, only God, and his messenger Jesus Christ".
I may try that.
33daverave
says...
9:34am Wed 20 Feb 13
Correct, thought not.
NakedDancer
says...
9:50am Wed 20 Feb 13
displayed wrote:Irrespective of the rights and wrongs - this Planning Inspector is quite obviously spouting utter nonsense and is totally incompetent. Why are his bosses not taking disciplinary action against him ?
"In a report on his decision planning inspector Tim Belcher said the size of the sign was acceptable given the large proportions of the house and that the green colour - used as it is associated with peace in Islam - did not make the symbols garish."
The guys puts a sign, doesn't have planning permission then goes to appeal!
That's how mussies get around planning laws!
There's a lot more to come!
He's gonna starting lighting it up next!
Its already wired for it!
He was just waiting for the inevitable outcome!
It will be a mosque next!
Ask 10 people if its garish and 10 will say yes. Ask 10 people if its in keeping with it surroundings in a conservation area and 10 will say no. Newport Planning must be fuming to be overruled by a brain dead WAG civil servant.
arjwain
says...
9:56am Wed 20 Feb 13
Trefor wrote:it would have to be removed straight away or vandalized
What would happen if a Christian placed a sign on their house saying:-
"There is no Allha, only God, and his messenger Jesus Christ".
I may try that.
NakedDancer
says...
10:01am Wed 20 Feb 13
godobe wrote:Certainly not a great result for his neighbours who have to live with an eyesore that will probably devalue their properties.
This is a great result. Good luck to Mr Ali.
Mr Ali's lack of consideration for his neighbours only promotes intolerance of other cultures.
displayed
says...
10:04am Wed 20 Feb 13
What an excellent idea!
Du think it will catch on...........
displayed
says...
10:21am Wed 20 Feb 13
5.1
The advertisement is already in place but has not been illuminated as yet.
He didn't apply for planning permission to put it up, only after!
Now he's trying to justify the sign!
He can't!
5.3
The text reads:
• With the will/grace of God (used in appreciation/thankfu
lness)
• May God grant him peace (used to refer to the Prophet Mohammed)
• There is no God but Allah and Mohammed is his messenger (Declaration of Islamic faith - word Allah literally means God in Arabic - so this refers to there
only being one God, his god...)
My God (used as an expression of endearment)
The Council does not consider that this text amounts to a memorial.
7.4
It should be noted that this is a domestic property in a predominantly residential area. (With lots of flats contained therein)
The building is not a mosque where signage of this type might be expected.
Yet!
They already got a mosque in Maindee, they don't need another one!
This used to be the UK, now its the uk:
Useless kingdom!
mvaone
says...
10:52am Wed 20 Feb 13
welshmen
says...
11:05am Wed 20 Feb 13
1/ Why don't you marry non Muslim's?.
billy boy 2
says...
11:34am Wed 20 Feb 13
schlep
says...
11:38am Wed 20 Feb 13
Bit by bit Islam is pervading this nation this is yet another example. wake up people wake up.
The so called house blessing will not be a great selling point!!!
rightsideup
says...
11:44am Wed 20 Feb 13
godobe
says...
11:50am Wed 20 Feb 13
godobe wrote:By "people like you" I mean the people who leave some of the shockingly narrow minded comments on this web site. Just to clarify.
The truth of the matter is there is no god. God / religion was invented so people like you have another reason to hate each other.
Cymru Am Beth
says...
12:16pm Wed 20 Feb 13
GogExile wrote:When in Rome?
Sign stating there is only one god - Allah - a few metres from a church. Nothing confrontational there then.
In the Islamic colour of peace - green. Same colour as the Hamas flag then. You know, those people who's charter calls for the extermination of all Jews.
Just saying like.
Cymru Am Beth
says...
12:21pm Wed 20 Feb 13
welshmen wrote:Because non muslims who drink and eat pork are regarded as indfidels and are referred to as such
You Muslim's who read these comments please answer these question.
1/ Why don't you marry non Muslim's?.
Katie Re-Registered
says...
12:43pm Wed 20 Feb 13
However, bearing in mind that the law says that all religions should be treated equally with regard to freedom of expression and that Satanism is a recognised religion, it would have been interesting to see if the Council would have likewise allowed a Satanist to put up a sign outside a house declaring that Satan is the one and only way to salvation, though;)!
Trefor
says...
1:05pm Wed 20 Feb 13
NakedDancer??
whatintheworld
says...
1:56pm Wed 20 Feb 13
County
says...
2:16pm Wed 20 Feb 13
swnpayne
says...
3:16pm Wed 20 Feb 13
amandaajd1
says...
4:08pm Wed 20 Feb 13
blackandamber
says...
4:08pm Wed 20 Feb 13
amandaajd1
says...
4:10pm Wed 20 Feb 13
amandaajd1 wrote:And their government bend over backwards to help us...like ours do.....I think not
I am not racist in any way or form, but one question I would like to ask, if someone could answer for me, is that if a load of british people moved to a different country...would the people of the country we all moved to, build us churches to pray for our so called god...
merlin the silure
says...
4:12pm Wed 20 Feb 13
Cosette
says...
5:00pm Wed 20 Feb 13
Nospin_1 wrote:I live in the area, which is supposedly a conservation area, and I cannot put up a satellite dish at the front of my home, which is fine. But now this guy is allowed to do this. One rule for some, and one for others. How is he getting away with this, I'd like to know what the councils excuses are
Bet if it been a christian message it would have been down.!!
Cosette
says...
5:07pm Wed 20 Feb 13
cath 872
says...
5:39pm Wed 20 Feb 13
Years ago, I married an Algerian muslim. Worst mistake of my life. Islam is not women friendly. Ignore those who tell you it is. I know, I've been there.
PS Muslim WOMEN can only marry muslim men. Says it all.
Trefor
says...
5:42pm Wed 20 Feb 13
There is no Allah, there is only God and his messenger Jesus Christ. Fact!!!!!
GogExile
says...
5:47pm Wed 20 Feb 13
I do wish people would read the articles thoroughly and stop blaming the council. For once, it isnt NCC at fault. It's a WAG coward that's ridden roughshod over correct implementation of planning laws by the council. Another victory for the religion of permanent offence.
NakedDancer
says...
5:55pm Wed 20 Feb 13
Cosette wrote:As I understand it Newport Council Planning refused permission. Mr Belcher overturned their decision - he works for the Planning Inspectorate who are appointed by the Welsh Assembly to hear planning appeals.
As a resident of this conservation area, I am not supposed to erect a satellite dish, on the front of my house, which is fine. So how is this guy allowed to do this, what is the councils excuse. Is it one rule for one, and one for everyone else
andystorm
says...
5:56pm Wed 20 Feb 13
This man, like any other is entitled to worship his religion in any way he sees fit so long as no one is getting hurt. This is Britain, and we base ourselves on freedom, human rights and care to humanity.
Individuals who are claiming a sign would have been taken down if it had been Christian are saying this without proof and are clearly saying this out of frustration because they are against the decision.
How do you know it would be taken down? do you have evidence, you would be entitled to the same rights as this gentleman, to appeal.
I wish individuals would stop making a fuss out of these petty things, they don't know how lucky they are to live hear. Try live in Eastern European countries and countries without such security to express your religion.
We are all Human at the end of the day.
cath 872
says...
6:05pm Wed 20 Feb 13
Llanmartinangel
says...
6:33pm Wed 20 Feb 13
GogExile wrote:The best post on this subject by a country mile.
I hate the bandying about of that most ridiculous of words 'Islamaphobia'. A phobia is an irrational fear and as such a psychiatric illness. I don't think fearing a fascist theology which represses women - including genital mutilation of young girls, calls for the murder of apostates, Jews and homosexuals and whose devotees slaughter one another on a daily basis worldwide is irrational at all - and most certainly isn't a mental illness! In fact, calling someone Islamaphobic should by considered hate speech. The International legal system must be Islamaphobic as there is virtually no chance of extraditing anyone to an Islamic country due to their barbarous nature.
I do wish people would read the articles thoroughly and stop blaming the council. For once, it isnt NCC at fault. It's a WAG coward that's ridden roughshod over correct implementation of planning laws by the council. Another victory for the religion of permanent offence.
arjwain
says...
6:45pm Wed 20 Feb 13
merlin the silure wrote:it would be burnt down like the christian churches back last year . Muslim faith is the only religion allowed there .
I'm thinking of opening a Welsh Baptist chapel next to the grand mosque in Mecca-what do you think my chances of getting planning permission are?
displayed
says...
6:54pm Wed 20 Feb 13
Agreed!
Magpiexx
says...
7:16pm Wed 20 Feb 13
http://www.southwale
sargus.co.uk/news/pi
ctures/picture_of_th
e_day/view/gallery_2
73521.Argus_picture_
of_the_day/
Mervyn James
says...
7:38pm Wed 20 Feb 13
Batman
says...
8:35pm Wed 20 Feb 13
Cosette
says...
9:20pm Wed 20 Feb 13
soo tempted to do tharpt, I ask everyone
Howie'
says...
12:51am Thu 21 Feb 13
merlin the silure wrote:Tell them your Welsh, BB.........They will welcome you with open arms, lol.
I'm thinking of opening a Welsh Baptist chapel next to the grand mosque in Mecca-what do you think my chances of getting planning permission are?
Cymru Am Beth
says...
8:42am Thu 21 Feb 13
amandaajd1 wrote:No.
I am not racist in any way or form, but one question I would like to ask, if someone could answer for me, is that if a load of british people moved to a different country...would the people of the country we all moved to, build us churches to pray for our so called god...
welshmen
says...
10:53am Thu 21 Feb 13
cath 872 wrote:Thanks Cath 872,
Welshmen ; - Muslim MEN can marry muslim, christian and jewish women, who usually convert to Islam.
Years ago, I married an Algerian muslim. Worst mistake of my life. Islam is not women friendly. Ignore those who tell you it is. I know, I've been there.
PS Muslim WOMEN can only marry muslim men. Says it all.
I thought as much, Islam seems to be a hateful cult Religion instead of a Religion of peace as we are led to believe by the Media at large and the BBC.
I wrote to two of our local MP's asked if there were active Sharia Courts in the UK, i was told there about 80 of them, but i was told they only advise on marital disputes within the Muslim marriage, and an other MP told me we must live in harmony with Muslims....
username2
says...
12:50pm Thu 21 Feb 13
Cymru Am Beth wrote:Not sure what your point is. I'm proud of the freedoms this country promotes.
amandaajd1 wrote:No.
I am not racist in any way or form, but one question I would like to ask, if someone could answer for me, is that if a load of british people moved to a different country...would the people of the country we all moved to, build us churches to pray for our so called god...
Cosette
says...
2:46pm Thu 21 Feb 13
godobe wrote:Great result!! Who for, bet you don't live around here, this WAG who ok,d this has the brain of a footballers wife or girlfriend alright
This is a great result. Good luck to Mr Ali.
portforever
says...
3:27pm Thu 21 Feb 13
arjwain
says...
9:15pm Thu 21 Feb 13
username2 wrote:are you maybe if it wasn't all one sided so would i
Cymru Am Beth wrote:Not sure what your point is. I'm proud of the freedoms this country promotes.
amandaajd1 wrote:No.
I am not racist in any way or form, but one question I would like to ask, if someone could answer for me, is that if a load of british people moved to a different country...would the people of the country we all moved to, build us churches to pray for our so called god...
amandaajd1
says...
1:28pm Fri 22 Feb 13
arjwain wrote:Totally agree...my point exactly...it's freedom to everyone, except the british...we are going to get kicked out of our own country if the government aren't careful....not one rule for one, and another for everyone else...if we went to live in another country..we would have to live by their rules....and that is the way it should be....if you choose to live in another country, they would not bend over backwards like our pathetic government does...it would be live by our rules or get out and go back home...I am thinking of moving to another country in a couple Of years time, I wouldn't expect them to bend down for me...I would live how they live, and if I didn't like it I would come back....uk = joke...
username2 wrote:are you maybe if it wasn't all one sided so would i
Cymru Am Beth wrote:Not sure what your point is. I'm proud of the freedoms this country promotes.
amandaajd1 wrote:No.
I am not racist in any way or form, but one question I would like to ask, if someone could answer for me, is that if a load of british people moved to a different country...would the people of the country we all moved to, build us churches to pray for our so called god...
NakedDancer
says...
5:22pm Fri 22 Feb 13
Cosette wrote:You can google 'the planning inspectorate'. You can also google 'Tim Belcher' and you will find quite a few controversial appeal decisions he has made.
godobe wrote:Great result!! Who for, bet you don't live around here, this WAG who ok,d this has the brain of a footballers wife or girlfriend alright
This is a great result. Good luck to Mr Ali.
welshmen
says...
6:23pm Fri 22 Feb 13
welshmen wrote:i have had one answer to this, a Woman who was married to a Muslim, any of you male Muslims want to comment....
You Muslim's who read these comments please answer these question.
1/ Why don't you marry non Muslim's?.
rlewis
says...
10:26pm Sat 23 Feb 13
displayed
says...
11:03pm Sat 23 Feb 13
If I put a sign outside my house saying "God does not exist " do you think it would cause any problems ?
R u "advertising" the fact or is it just "wishful thinking"!
MR DUDLEY
says...
1:39am Sun 24 Feb 13
aevs74
says...
10:04pm Sun 24 Feb 13
Cymru Am Beth
says...
1:33pm Mon 25 Feb 13
They are aware that we aim to be fair and politically correct to all creeds.
This is sometimes done at the expense of the indigenous population.
This causes alienation and distrust of other races and in some cases incites violence.
In our attempt to appease minorities, we have maybe forgotten the majority.
Llanmartinangel
says...
4:30pm Mon 25 Feb 13
aevs74 wrote:Freedom to do what? Flout our law, rail against the equality that was hard won here? I'd google the word 'naive'. The fact is that countries where this guys values are the norm are never going to have our democracy and equal rights. And no amount of bending over backwards not to offend will change that.
If I was in an Islamic country and tried to advertise my God and Jesus the saviour on the front of my residence or my business I wonder how my Islamist neighbours would react......I'm guessing I would be burned alive or have my hands cut off or stoned to death etc etc. This is why people come here to the UK to settle because we are a fair society with free will. Some people call it weak, it is not weak, it is how life should be lived - Freedom, other countries can learn alot from us
Independentvoter
says...
6:49pm Mon 25 Feb 13
P C Neilson
says...
2:21am Tue 26 Feb 13
We cannot unmake our technological achievements, or spread the worlds people far and few again. Nor should we want to.
Religion has had 2,000 years plus, to prove that, sticking rigidly to tribe segregating rules is the way to love and peace. Open your eyes and take a look around. Do we have another 2,000 to keep testing this failed hypothesis?
My point is very plain to see, the current ideology of multiculturism works fine when the tribes are small, and there is plenty of trading. For us to truely get along we must be having babies together with 'no conditions' of tradition. Even if I am wrong about this, the current approach of rigid tradition and separation has clearly failed to provide peace to any country in the world thus far.
Howie'
says...
10:35am Tue 26 Feb 13
Independentvoter wrote:In Spain they can claim the same benefits that the Spanish have access too under EU rules that apply to all EU states, in countries outside of the EU, Australia and Canada for instance if they had become citizens of those Countries they would get the same benefits that other Australian or Canadian folk receive.
Amandaajd1.. Just google how many British people live permanently abroad - Spain - Australia, Canada etc and how many claim benefits etc etc.
amandaajd1
says...
3:31pm Tue 26 Feb 13
Howie' wrote:I am not just on about benefits, and I am on about everything as a whole, the way this country bend over backwards to help every nationality going, except the british...we are not allowed to do anything in this country...yet other nationalities get away with everything...it's our country and we are the ones that are penalised and have to go without....like I said, if and when I go abroad, I would live how they live, not expect them to bow down to me....and if I wasn't happy I would come back....if this country was a good country to live in, people wouldn't want to get out of it....if We had thousands to buy a home outright abroad, and to keep us ticking over, while my husband and I were trying to find jobs abroad, I would have been gone years ago...
Independentvoter wrote:In Spain they can claim the same benefits that the Spanish have access too under EU rules that apply to all EU states, in countries outside of the EU, Australia and Canada for instance if they had become citizens of those Countries they would get the same benefits that other Australian or Canadian folk receive.
Amandaajd1.. Just google how many British people live permanently abroad - Spain - Australia, Canada etc and how many claim benefits etc etc.
Cymru Am Beth
says...
8:39am Wed 27 Feb 13
amandaajd1 wrote:Totally agree.
Howie' wrote:I am not just on about benefits, and I am on about everything as a whole, the way this country bend over backwards to help every nationality going, except the british...we are not allowed to do anything in this country...yet other nationalities get away with everything...it's our country and we are the ones that are penalised and have to go without....like I said, if and when I go abroad, I would live how they live, not expect them to bow down to me....and if I wasn't happy I would come back....if this country was a good country to live in, people wouldn't want to get out of it....if We had thousands to buy a home outright abroad, and to keep us ticking over, while my husband and I were trying to find jobs abroad, I would have been gone years ago...
Independentvoter wrote:In Spain they can claim the same benefits that the Spanish have access too under EU rules that apply to all EU states, in countries outside of the EU, Australia and Canada for instance if they had become citizens of those Countries they would get the same benefits that other Australian or Canadian folk receive.
Amandaajd1.. Just google how many British people live permanently abroad - Spain - Australia, Canada etc and how many claim benefits etc etc.
Also, in Spain, they receive benefits for a short time only.
We are far too generous in the UK.
That is the reason why foreigners want to settle here.
It certainly isn't because of the weather.
Res ipsa loquitur.
godobe says...
5:57pm Tue 19 Feb 13