Gwent’s chief constable, Carmel Napier told by PCC, Ian Johnston to ‘retire or be removed’

South Wales Argus: ULTIMATUM: Documents seen by the South Wales Argus show Gwent’s chief constable, Carmel Napier was told by PCC, Ian Johnston to ‘retire or be removed’ ULTIMATUM: Documents seen by the South Wales Argus show Gwent’s chief constable, Carmel Napier was told by PCC, Ian Johnston to ‘retire or be removed’

UPDATE: 3.59pm

GWENT PCC Ian Johnston this afternoon said he "very much regretted" that the contents of his memorandum had been leaked to the South Wales Argus.

He said: "I can absolutely assure the people of Gwent that neither myself, or my office, had any part in passing this confidential information to a third party. However, now the information is in the public domain, I want to be honest with people about my concerns.

“On 23rd May 2013, during our meeting, I raised my concerns about a number of issues. These were outlined in a memorandum. Subsequently Mrs Napier took the decision to retire, which I accepted. Had Mrs Napier not made the decision to retire, I intended to take the matter further, which may have resulted in her being asked to leave the force.

“I will be moving to appoint a new Chief Constable as soon as practicable to provide stability and leadership for the force. In the meantime I will work with the temporary Chief Constable Jeff Farrar, to provide a police service for Gwent which is excellent in every way.”

UPDATE: 12.27pm

GWENT PCC Ian Johnston, said Carmel Napier had shown a “total lack of acceptance of the role and statutory responsibilities of the PCC”.

Speaking to the Argus the commissioner claimed the chief constable had given a “verbal order that no one was to have any contact with the police and crime commissioner.”

He said this happened “within the first week of me arriving”.

“I challenged her on it.” he said. “She said they must have misunderstood what I said.”

“I had people approaching me saying I can't speak to you”.

“They didn't misunderstand [that] they were threatened with disciplinary action.”

 


GWENT’s chief constable was told to retire or be removed from her job, the Argus can reveal.

In documents seen by the Argus, Gwent Police and Crime Commissioner Ian Johnston told Carmel Napier he had “grave concerns” about her "performance and behaviour as Chief Constable”.

In a meeting between the two on May 23, Mr Johnston told Mrs Napier he wanted her to retire within a month.

According to notes of the meeting, Mr Johnston told Mrs Napier he was giving her “the opportunity to retire of your own volition”. If she did not agree to do so by 9.30am on June 3, Mrs Napier was told by Mr Johnston: “I will start the process of removing you”.

According to the notes of the meeting, which are signed by Mr Johnston and his chief executive Shelley Bosson, Mr Johnston told Mrs Napier that his concerns fell under four headings.

He told the Chief Constable: “In my judgement you have lost the confidence of the public of Gwent and of your officers and staff.

“I find your managerial style to be unacceptably dismissive, abrupt and unhelpful.

“You have failed appropriately to manage external and internal relations.

“You are deeply hostile to the very concept of the office of PCC.”

According to the documents we have seen, Mr Johnston told Mrs Napier: “My intention is not to humiliate or upset you but we need to be clear I do want you to retire in the next month.” He said he would “prefer us to agree a harmonious parting of the ways”.

Mr Johnston told Mrs Napier at the meeting that “it would be much better if you accepted my wish as the democratically elected PCC”.

The Argus revealed exclusively last Wednesday that Mrs Napier was retiring with immediate effect. This was confirmed officially by Gwent Police last Friday.

There has been much speculation and comment from Gwent MPs, in particular, over the reasons for Mrs Napier’s decisions.

Mr Johnston and Mrs Napier engaged in a public war of words over crime figures last month after the PCC suggested in an interview with the Argus that some statistics were being incorrectly recorded.

Mrs Napier, in response, said such comments could damage morale among rank and file officers.

Responding to the Argus' request for a comment on the meeting, Mr Johnston, said: "Since my election I had a number of conversations and meetings with Mrs Napier regarding the future direction of the Force and her role in implementing this.

"On 23 May we had a conversation which was the final one of many during the last few months. Following this meeting Mrs Napier took the decision to retire, which I accepted.”

Mrs Napier declined to comment yesterday.

Comments (63)

Please log in to enable comment sorting

7:23am Tue 11 Jun 13

blackandamber says...

Love the bit about being "democratically elected"
Love the bit about being "democratically elected" blackandamber

8:08am Tue 11 Jun 13

Woodgnome says...

The point about her having an abrupt managerial style has been circulating for some time. Nevertheless the leaking of the letter is no way to run a police force and maybe the police can use their talents to find out who did it!!
The point about her having an abrupt managerial style has been circulating for some time. Nevertheless the leaking of the letter is no way to run a police force and maybe the police can use their talents to find out who did it!! Woodgnome

8:46am Tue 11 Jun 13

Miss Informed says...

The words 'pot, kettle, black' spring to mind.
The words 'pot, kettle, black' spring to mind. Miss Informed

9:27am Tue 11 Jun 13

Trefor says...

This is turning into a very serious state of affairs indeed.

First, the Police and Crime Commissioners are elected to speak for the populous, in this case I do not remember being consulted in any way by the Commissioners or his `hat doffers`, including the overspilled, inherited, ex chief executive of the old defunct, Police Authority who appears to be looming large in this debacle process.

Secondly, who`s job is it to scrutinise the day to day actions of what appears to be a dictatorial process adopted by the commissioner for Gwent, is it the `appointed` Commissioner Panels??? if so where do those `appointed` people stand on this issue, do they support the Commissioner????, let`s hear from the chairman of that bunch.

It is laughable for the Commissioner to say he has a mandate from the people of Gwent to act in this way, and this issue has a million miles to run yet, The actions of this person are not done in my name.
This is turning into a very serious state of affairs indeed. First, the Police and Crime Commissioners are elected to speak for the populous, in this case I do not remember being consulted in any way by the Commissioners or his `hat doffers`, including the overspilled, inherited, ex chief executive of the old defunct, Police Authority who appears to be looming large in this debacle process. Secondly, who`s job is it to scrutinise the day to day actions of what appears to be a dictatorial process adopted by the commissioner for Gwent, is it the `appointed` Commissioner Panels??? if so where do those `appointed` people stand on this issue, do they support the Commissioner????, let`s hear from the chairman of that bunch. It is laughable for the Commissioner to say he has a mandate from the people of Gwent to act in this way, and this issue has a million miles to run yet, The actions of this person are not done in my name. Trefor

9:37am Tue 11 Jun 13

bobmech1 says...

I don't think that Ian Johnson was elected to dictate who was to be chief constable is it a stepping over the boundary of his post?
Is it a case of I should be running Gwent Police?
Yes they has been roumers of disquiet in the ranks of the force, isn't this the case with management changes, though can you say the her time in post was long enough to see her vision bear fruit, we will never know
Mr Johnson talks about being democratically elected though it was a low turnout you could say that the majority voted for no one, and then appoints ex colleagues to positions in his police commissioner role effectively building a second cm and structure running along side that of Gwent Polices.
Something was going to give
I don't know the retiring Chief Constable but I can't help feeling that there is a lot more to this than is in the public domain
I also wonder if there isn't a case for unfair dismissal tp answer as she was being forced to retire
I don't think that Ian Johnson was elected to dictate who was to be chief constable is it a stepping over the boundary of his post? Is it a case of I should be running Gwent Police? Yes they has been roumers of disquiet in the ranks of the force, isn't this the case with management changes, though can you say the her time in post was long enough to see her vision bear fruit, we will never know Mr Johnson talks about being democratically elected though it was a low turnout you could say that the majority voted for no one, and then appoints ex colleagues to positions in his police commissioner role effectively building a second cm and structure running along side that of Gwent Polices. Something was going to give I don't know the retiring Chief Constable but I can't help feeling that there is a lot more to this than is in the public domain I also wonder if there isn't a case for unfair dismissal tp answer as she was being forced to retire bobmech1

9:44am Tue 11 Jun 13

swrxp09 says...

Regardless of Ian Johnsons' position or authority, I don't think Carmel Napier would "walk the plank" so quietly and easily. There must be some serious evidence of malpractise. If so the people of Gwent need to know.
Regardless of Ian Johnsons' position or authority, I don't think Carmel Napier would "walk the plank" so quietly and easily. There must be some serious evidence of malpractise. If so the people of Gwent need to know. swrxp09

10:18am Tue 11 Jun 13

Lenin says...

If there were serious concerns about the Chief Constable retirement should not have been an option.

All public sector organisations have both Capability and Disciplinary Procedures for resolving performance issues, and these should have been used.

Perhaps the concerns were not as great as the PCC makes out and he was concerned that any investigation and hearing would have exonerated the Chief Constable.

Offering a retirement option might have resolved his issues with the Chief without exposing him to risk of failure.

Far from convinced of the motives behind this event. An independent inquiry into the background is needed urgently.
If there were serious concerns about the Chief Constable retirement should not have been an option. All public sector organisations have both Capability and Disciplinary Procedures for resolving performance issues, and these should have been used. Perhaps the concerns were not as great as the PCC makes out and he was concerned that any investigation and hearing would have exonerated the Chief Constable. Offering a retirement option might have resolved his issues with the Chief without exposing him to risk of failure. Far from convinced of the motives behind this event. An independent inquiry into the background is needed urgently. Lenin

10:50am Tue 11 Jun 13

let em swing says...

Seems we have a democratically elected dictator, only in wales eh, come on Napier get a statement out, this whole thing stinks to high heaven.
Seems we have a democratically elected dictator, only in wales eh, come on Napier get a statement out, this whole thing stinks to high heaven. let em swing

10:51am Tue 11 Jun 13

goodcopper7 says...

The Pcc can hire and fire the CC that's part of the role. However capability procedures should be followed but the CC retired which they are allowed to after 30 years service. Whatever the 'evidence' the PCC has, he has said it supports the actions he has taken. It is disappointing that the minutes of the meeting have made the press as this is an employer- employee matter. Consequently neither party comes out of it with any credit.
The Pcc can hire and fire the CC that's part of the role. However capability procedures should be followed but the CC retired which they are allowed to after 30 years service. Whatever the 'evidence' the PCC has, he has said it supports the actions he has taken. It is disappointing that the minutes of the meeting have made the press as this is an employer- employee matter. Consequently neither party comes out of it with any credit. goodcopper7

10:57am Tue 11 Jun 13

Anne teak says...

At least he's not a nodding dog, like the old useless committee was.

And who believed that there was less crime, other than the Gwent Police crime figure compilers?
At least he's not a nodding dog, like the old useless committee was. And who believed that there was less crime, other than the Gwent Police crime figure compilers? Anne teak

11:07am Tue 11 Jun 13

Woodgnome says...

The PCC was elected even if the majority didn't bother to vote - so the non voters have only themselves go blame. As usual the moaning starts when it's too late..
The PCC was elected even if the majority didn't bother to vote - so the non voters have only themselves go blame. As usual the moaning starts when it's too late.. Woodgnome

11:26am Tue 11 Jun 13

davidcopperfield says...

Hopefully the Argus won't try and censor me again as they did last week. Carmel Napier is facing an investigation in respect of a complaint I have made. It is a serious allegation and I am certain it will be investigated in a thoroughly professional and fair manner. Most of you who have posted on here and absolutely no idea of just how she has ruined moral within Gwent Police. Try and go into a police station today and report an incident or get some advice and unless you're in one of 3 towns you can't do it. Her "reforms" have meant that there are now no officers in the communities with local knowledge of criminals. We have "fire service" type policing and floods of school liaison officers and other totally unnecessary posts. We have policy decided for an area based on "PACT" meetings where 5 or 6 people bother to turn up and that decides the policing priorities for up to 70,000 people??!! She was completely unapproachable. Her management was style was it's my way or the highway. She was detested by all except those who saw an opportunity for their own self promotion. I hope that her retirement will not allow her to avoid facing serious allegations. Please believe me when I say this is the best thing to happen to Gwent Police for a long time.
Hopefully the Argus won't try and censor me again as they did last week. Carmel Napier is facing an investigation in respect of a complaint I have made. It is a serious allegation and I am certain it will be investigated in a thoroughly professional and fair manner. Most of you who have posted on here and absolutely no idea of just how she has ruined moral within Gwent Police. Try and go into a police station today and report an incident or get some advice and unless you're in one of 3 towns you can't do it. Her "reforms" have meant that there are now no officers in the communities with local knowledge of criminals. We have "fire service" type policing and floods of school liaison officers and other totally unnecessary posts. We have policy decided for an area based on "PACT" meetings where 5 or 6 people bother to turn up and that decides the policing priorities for up to 70,000 people??!! She was completely unapproachable. Her management was style was it's my way or the highway. She was detested by all except those who saw an opportunity for their own self promotion. I hope that her retirement will not allow her to avoid facing serious allegations. Please believe me when I say this is the best thing to happen to Gwent Police for a long time. davidcopperfield

11:28am Tue 11 Jun 13

county mad says...

I lost faith in the CC when she accepted her bonus for what I couldn't understand ,her six figure salary obviously wasn't enough! In times of austerity this was a selfish and insensitive act by Mrs Napier, maybe she should have refused it or donated it
I lost faith in the CC when she accepted her bonus for what I couldn't understand ,her six figure salary obviously wasn't enough! In times of austerity this was a selfish and insensitive act by Mrs Napier, maybe she should have refused it or donated it county mad

11:28am Tue 11 Jun 13

CJM1957 says...

This is happening up and down the country with PCCs who are often middle ranking police officers who never made it to the top job flexing their muscles and using the bully boy tactics they became accustomed to in the force. In our force, the PCCs doesn't even live in the force area, he knows nothing about us and the majority of voters never voted. This is one of the worst policies ever implemented but it is all about Tory power. Hopefully in 2015 we will rid ourselves on the eaton set and put power back into the hands of ordinary people and police forces back into the hands of the professionals.
This is happening up and down the country with PCCs who are often middle ranking police officers who never made it to the top job flexing their muscles and using the bully boy tactics they became accustomed to in the force. In our force, the PCCs doesn't even live in the force area, he knows nothing about us and the majority of voters never voted. This is one of the worst policies ever implemented but it is all about Tory power. Hopefully in 2015 we will rid ourselves on the eaton set and put power back into the hands of ordinary people and police forces back into the hands of the professionals. CJM1957

11:33am Tue 11 Jun 13

nehpets snave says...

Gwent police S S I mean CC
Gwent police S S I mean CC nehpets snave

11:35am Tue 11 Jun 13

Bobevans says...

davidcopperfield wrote:
Hopefully the Argus won't try and censor me again as they did last week. Carmel Napier is facing an investigation in respect of a complaint I have made. It is a serious allegation and I am certain it will be investigated in a thoroughly professional and fair manner. Most of you who have posted on here and absolutely no idea of just how she has ruined moral within Gwent Police. Try and go into a police station today and report an incident or get some advice and unless you're in one of 3 towns you can't do it. Her "reforms" have meant that there are now no officers in the communities with local knowledge of criminals. We have "fire service" type policing and floods of school liaison officers and other totally unnecessary posts. We have policy decided for an area based on "PACT" meetings where 5 or 6 people bother to turn up and that decides the policing priorities for up to 70,000 people??!! She was completely unapproachable. Her management was style was it's my way or the highway. She was detested by all except those who saw an opportunity for their own self promotion. I hope that her retirement will not allow her to avoid facing serious allegations. Please believe me when I say this is the best thing to happen to Gwent Police for a long time.
What you are saying would not be correct. You may have made a complaint but that would not result in her being asked to go unless the complaint was serious and even then it would need to be investigated first

You appear to have some kind of grudge
[quote][p][bold]davidcopperfield[/bold] wrote: Hopefully the Argus won't try and censor me again as they did last week. Carmel Napier is facing an investigation in respect of a complaint I have made. It is a serious allegation and I am certain it will be investigated in a thoroughly professional and fair manner. Most of you who have posted on here and absolutely no idea of just how she has ruined moral within Gwent Police. Try and go into a police station today and report an incident or get some advice and unless you're in one of 3 towns you can't do it. Her "reforms" have meant that there are now no officers in the communities with local knowledge of criminals. We have "fire service" type policing and floods of school liaison officers and other totally unnecessary posts. We have policy decided for an area based on "PACT" meetings where 5 or 6 people bother to turn up and that decides the policing priorities for up to 70,000 people??!! She was completely unapproachable. Her management was style was it's my way or the highway. She was detested by all except those who saw an opportunity for their own self promotion. I hope that her retirement will not allow her to avoid facing serious allegations. Please believe me when I say this is the best thing to happen to Gwent Police for a long time.[/p][/quote]What you are saying would not be correct. You may have made a complaint but that would not result in her being asked to go unless the complaint was serious and even then it would need to be investigated first You appear to have some kind of grudge Bobevans

11:40am Tue 11 Jun 13

rightsideup says...

Well done Ian Johnston!.
Well done Ian Johnston!. rightsideup

11:40am Tue 11 Jun 13

white white says...

The crime commissioner
Should resign .it was a really
Stupid idea of employing them
Any way but it was forced upon
Us by the Westminster government
Put it this way would you Put a soccer
Manager in place to run a rugby team
The crime commissioner Should resign .it was a really Stupid idea of employing them Any way but it was forced upon Us by the Westminster government Put it this way would you Put a soccer Manager in place to run a rugby team white white

11:46am Tue 11 Jun 13

RogerLFC says...

The Gwent PCC was elected on a 14% turnout with one Polling Station having no voters at all. I live in the West Mercia Police area (I won't bore you with any moan I may have about my PCC) but I can tell you that I have voted in Every single election (General and/or local council etc) I was eligible to vote in since 1979. All except the PCC one last November. As I am totally opposed to the whole concept of a PCC.
The Gwent PCC was elected on a 14% turnout with one Polling Station having no voters at all. I live in the West Mercia Police area (I won't bore you with any moan I may have about my PCC) but I can tell you that I have voted in Every single election (General and/or local council etc) I was eligible to vote in since 1979. All except the PCC one last November. As I am totally opposed to the whole concept of a PCC. RogerLFC

11:50am Tue 11 Jun 13

Agunner says...

Paul Flynn Mp states 'best Chief Constable for decades''
Has he forgotten the outstanding leadership of John Over who fought to retain public values with a strong visibility and leadership style that placed Gwent above the rest?A Chief who was not afraid to challenge the politicians and judiciary when necessary to protect the public.
Has he forgotten Sir Tony Burden who transformed Gwent into the forward looking force it is today and embraced diversity when others didn't know what it meant.
Has he forgotten Keith Turner who led on the improvement of performance whilst stabilising the force after the loss of Frank Wilkinson?
Has he forgotten Mike Tonge and Mick Gianassi who implemented and delivered neighbourhood policing whilst grappling with spending cuts?All of these Chief Constables led a highly motivated proud workforce and served our communities to the best of their ability.Has Paul Flynn really thought about his comment or has he allowed the opportunity to have a political swipe at the government led establishment of the PCC roles get the better of him?
Paul Flynn Mp states 'best Chief Constable for decades'' Has he forgotten the outstanding leadership of John Over who fought to retain public values with a strong visibility and leadership style that placed Gwent above the rest?A Chief who was not afraid to challenge the politicians and judiciary when necessary to protect the public. Has he forgotten Sir Tony Burden who transformed Gwent into the forward looking force it is today and embraced diversity when others didn't know what it meant. Has he forgotten Keith Turner who led on the improvement of performance whilst stabilising the force after the loss of Frank Wilkinson? Has he forgotten Mike Tonge and Mick Gianassi who implemented and delivered neighbourhood policing whilst grappling with spending cuts?All of these Chief Constables led a highly motivated proud workforce and served our communities to the best of their ability.Has Paul Flynn really thought about his comment or has he allowed the opportunity to have a political swipe at the government led establishment of the PCC roles get the better of him? Agunner

12:06pm Tue 11 Jun 13

Trefor says...

David Copperfield, clearly scared to use is correct name, why????

And, he, or she, asks us ` to believe` me, well, I for one dont believe you, you clearly have an axe to grind, not unlike other, probably, over weight, fat, lazy ex coppers who the last Chief Constable sorted out, or indeed current serving bobbies who fit the same physical description as above, and are those who always last on the scene of a disturbance, always take the maximum sick leave entitlement ill or not, and who fail in their duty to the public by a lazy, dilitory and disrespectful attitude to the public, thankfully they are few and far between, but it appears to me that most of them still find time to read and comment on these issues to do with the Crime Commissioner, and, mysteriously, in support of what appears to be a dictatorial public servant,
David Copperfield, clearly scared to use is correct name, why???? And, he, or she, asks us ` to believe` me, well, I for one dont believe you, you clearly have an axe to grind, not unlike other, probably, over weight, fat, lazy ex coppers who the last Chief Constable sorted out, or indeed current serving bobbies who fit the same physical description as above, and are those who always last on the scene of a disturbance, always take the maximum sick leave entitlement ill or not, and who fail in their duty to the public by a lazy, dilitory and disrespectful attitude to the public, thankfully they are few and far between, but it appears to me that most of them still find time to read and comment on these issues to do with the Crime Commissioner, and, mysteriously, in support of what appears to be a dictatorial public servant, Trefor

12:33pm Tue 11 Jun 13

davidcopperfield says...

Trefor wrote:
David Copperfield, clearly scared to use is correct name, why????

And, he, or she, asks us ` to believe` me, well, I for one dont believe you, you clearly have an axe to grind, not unlike other, probably, over weight, fat, lazy ex coppers who the last Chief Constable sorted out, or indeed current serving bobbies who fit the same physical description as above, and are those who always last on the scene of a disturbance, always take the maximum sick leave entitlement ill or not, and who fail in their duty to the public by a lazy, dilitory and disrespectful attitude to the public, thankfully they are few and far between, but it appears to me that most of them still find time to read and comment on these issues to do with the Crime Commissioner, and, mysteriously, in support of what appears to be a dictatorial public servant,
You are correct - It's not my real name but that doesn't matter. I am an ex police officer who served the community with pride for 30 years. I retired of my own free will. I am not fat or lazy and I worked hard to the benefit of those I served - The public of South Wales for 16 years and Gwent for 14 years. I have made a complaint and if proven it will result in the former Chief Constable being convicted of a criminal offence. As it stands she is innocent until proven guilty and that is right. I will keep my remarks focused on the facts of how Napier let down the people of Gwent and her own staff. The most damning (and true) line of the statement of Mr.Johnston today was "she was dismissive, abrupt and unhelpful." I would suggest that maybe you might like to accept that other people can have a view and maybe people who were unfortunate enough to have contact with her are in a far better position to comment than you or any of the Labour politicians who just use this as an opportunity to make political points. I will repeat - Gwent is a much better place without Napier and hopefully she will be brought to account for some of her actions which have to remain secret at this time as they are sub judice.
[quote][p][bold]Trefor[/bold] wrote: David Copperfield, clearly scared to use is correct name, why???? And, he, or she, asks us ` to believe` me, well, I for one dont believe you, you clearly have an axe to grind, not unlike other, probably, over weight, fat, lazy ex coppers who the last Chief Constable sorted out, or indeed current serving bobbies who fit the same physical description as above, and are those who always last on the scene of a disturbance, always take the maximum sick leave entitlement ill or not, and who fail in their duty to the public by a lazy, dilitory and disrespectful attitude to the public, thankfully they are few and far between, but it appears to me that most of them still find time to read and comment on these issues to do with the Crime Commissioner, and, mysteriously, in support of what appears to be a dictatorial public servant,[/p][/quote]You are correct - It's not my real name but that doesn't matter. I am an ex police officer who served the community with pride for 30 years. I retired of my own free will. I am not fat or lazy and I worked hard to the benefit of those I served - The public of South Wales for 16 years and Gwent for 14 years. I have made a complaint and if proven it will result in the former Chief Constable being convicted of a criminal offence. As it stands she is innocent until proven guilty and that is right. I will keep my remarks focused on the facts of how Napier let down the people of Gwent and her own staff. The most damning (and true) line of the statement of Mr.Johnston today was "she was dismissive, abrupt and unhelpful." I would suggest that maybe you might like to accept that other people can have a view and maybe people who were unfortunate enough to have contact with her are in a far better position to comment than you or any of the Labour politicians who just use this as an opportunity to make political points. I will repeat - Gwent is a much better place without Napier and hopefully she will be brought to account for some of her actions which have to remain secret at this time as they are sub judice. davidcopperfield

12:39pm Tue 11 Jun 13

D Taylor says...

Woodgnome wrote:
The PCC was elected even if the majority didn't bother to vote - so the non voters have only themselves go blame. As usual the moaning starts when it's too late..
This affair is causing me concern as it is others. But I am tired of people who can't be bothered to vote complaining about who was elected by those who did bother. If you don't vote, you don't count. You may not like the idea of a PCC but everyone knew there was going to be one like it or not. Unless people had a genuine reason for abstaining they should have voted. Too late to complain now.
[quote][p][bold]Woodgnome[/bold] wrote: The PCC was elected even if the majority didn't bother to vote - so the non voters have only themselves go blame. As usual the moaning starts when it's too late..[/p][/quote]This affair is causing me concern as it is others. But I am tired of people who can't be bothered to vote complaining about who was elected by those who did bother. If you don't vote, you don't count. You may not like the idea of a PCC but everyone knew there was going to be one like it or not. Unless people had a genuine reason for abstaining they should have voted. Too late to complain now. D Taylor

12:39pm Tue 11 Jun 13

davidcopperfield says...

Bobevans wrote:
davidcopperfield wrote:
Hopefully the Argus won't try and censor me again as they did last week. Carmel Napier is facing an investigation in respect of a complaint I have made. It is a serious allegation and I am certain it will be investigated in a thoroughly professional and fair manner. Most of you who have posted on here and absolutely no idea of just how she has ruined moral within Gwent Police. Try and go into a police station today and report an incident or get some advice and unless you're in one of 3 towns you can't do it. Her "reforms" have meant that there are now no officers in the communities with local knowledge of criminals. We have "fire service" type policing and floods of school liaison officers and other totally unnecessary posts. We have policy decided for an area based on "PACT" meetings where 5 or 6 people bother to turn up and that decides the policing priorities for up to 70,000 people??!! She was completely unapproachable. Her management was style was it's my way or the highway. She was detested by all except those who saw an opportunity for their own self promotion. I hope that her retirement will not allow her to avoid facing serious allegations. Please believe me when I say this is the best thing to happen to Gwent Police for a long time.
What you are saying would not be correct. You may have made a complaint but that would not result in her being asked to go unless the complaint was serious and even then it would need to be investigated first

You appear to have some kind of grudge
I don't have a grudge Mr.Evans - I have a genuine complaint which has been made, registered and is being investigated. As I have said in another post, Napier is innocent until proven guilty but if she is found guilty then it will be guilty of a serious criminal offence. I don't call that a grudge do you? As I have said, a lot of people who know nothing about the manner that Napier conducted herself and nothing of her (In my view at this time) illegal actions . I am fully aware of the investigation procedure. I just hope that the investigation will find against her and that she will not be allowed to walk away from facing the consequences of her actions.
[quote][p][bold]Bobevans[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davidcopperfield[/bold] wrote: Hopefully the Argus won't try and censor me again as they did last week. Carmel Napier is facing an investigation in respect of a complaint I have made. It is a serious allegation and I am certain it will be investigated in a thoroughly professional and fair manner. Most of you who have posted on here and absolutely no idea of just how she has ruined moral within Gwent Police. Try and go into a police station today and report an incident or get some advice and unless you're in one of 3 towns you can't do it. Her "reforms" have meant that there are now no officers in the communities with local knowledge of criminals. We have "fire service" type policing and floods of school liaison officers and other totally unnecessary posts. We have policy decided for an area based on "PACT" meetings where 5 or 6 people bother to turn up and that decides the policing priorities for up to 70,000 people??!! She was completely unapproachable. Her management was style was it's my way or the highway. She was detested by all except those who saw an opportunity for their own self promotion. I hope that her retirement will not allow her to avoid facing serious allegations. Please believe me when I say this is the best thing to happen to Gwent Police for a long time.[/p][/quote]What you are saying would not be correct. You may have made a complaint but that would not result in her being asked to go unless the complaint was serious and even then it would need to be investigated first You appear to have some kind of grudge[/p][/quote]I don't have a grudge Mr.Evans - I have a genuine complaint which has been made, registered and is being investigated. As I have said in another post, Napier is innocent until proven guilty but if she is found guilty then it will be guilty of a serious criminal offence. I don't call that a grudge do you? As I have said, a lot of people who know nothing about the manner that Napier conducted herself and nothing of her (In my view at this time) illegal actions . I am fully aware of the investigation procedure. I just hope that the investigation will find against her and that she will not be allowed to walk away from facing the consequences of her actions. davidcopperfield

12:47pm Tue 11 Jun 13

Dee-Gee says...

D Taylor wrote:
Woodgnome wrote:
The PCC was elected even if the majority didn't bother to vote - so the non voters have only themselves go blame. As usual the moaning starts when it's too late..
This affair is causing me concern as it is others. But I am tired of people who can't be bothered to vote complaining about who was elected by those who did bother. If you don't vote, you don't count. You may not like the idea of a PCC but everyone knew there was going to be one like it or not. Unless people had a genuine reason for abstaining they should have voted. Too late to complain now.
Surely being opposed to the post is a perfectly genuine reason for abstaining?

Let's have a vote on whether we want a PCC or not, and see what the turnout is like.
[quote][p][bold]D Taylor[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Woodgnome[/bold] wrote: The PCC was elected even if the majority didn't bother to vote - so the non voters have only themselves go blame. As usual the moaning starts when it's too late..[/p][/quote]This affair is causing me concern as it is others. But I am tired of people who can't be bothered to vote complaining about who was elected by those who did bother. If you don't vote, you don't count. You may not like the idea of a PCC but everyone knew there was going to be one like it or not. Unless people had a genuine reason for abstaining they should have voted. Too late to complain now.[/p][/quote]Surely being opposed to the post is a perfectly genuine reason for abstaining? Let's have a vote on whether we want a PCC or not, and see what the turnout is like. Dee-Gee

1:55pm Tue 11 Jun 13

bobmech1 says...

Reading these comments I can't help feeling there is a lot of axes to grind
I completely agree with Agunner about the previous CC's. one person who also was a superb officer was Mr Rostrum he wouldn't have let this run as it has
With Davidcopperfields comments about ms Napier then any complaint should be as he said investigated and if as serious as he states them she should have been suspended and dealt with rather than be forced to resign. Anyway the matter he discusses should remain with the investigative officers and not aired in these viewpoints as it is a one sided point of view that cannot be responded to buy the accused or investigative parties
Whatever happens next this has left a lot of questions over the incident that will leave a bad taste in people's minds and first reflect well on any of the parties involved
It also can lead to accusations against the PC that he could hire and fire until he has appointed a CC he favoured and could lease to acusationsvof running the force BT proxy
Wherever happens it can only be a bad day for both parties and the public of Gwent as well as its Police Service
Reading these comments I can't help feeling there is a lot of axes to grind I completely agree with Agunner about the previous CC's. one person who also was a superb officer was Mr Rostrum he wouldn't have let this run as it has With Davidcopperfields comments about ms Napier then any complaint should be as he said investigated and if as serious as he states them she should have been suspended and dealt with rather than be forced to resign. Anyway the matter he discusses should remain with the investigative officers and not aired in these viewpoints as it is a one sided point of view that cannot be responded to buy the accused or investigative parties Whatever happens next this has left a lot of questions over the incident that will leave a bad taste in people's minds and first reflect well on any of the parties involved It also can lead to accusations against the PC that he could hire and fire until he has appointed a CC he favoured and could lease to acusationsvof running the force BT proxy Wherever happens it can only be a bad day for both parties and the public of Gwent as well as its Police Service bobmech1

2:11pm Tue 11 Jun 13

Anne teak says...

The problem is that if the crime figures suddenly shoot up .....

...we won't know whether it is due to Carmel Napier being removed, or the previous statistics were falsified.
The problem is that if the crime figures suddenly shoot up ..... ...we won't know whether it is due to Carmel Napier being removed, or the previous statistics were falsified. Anne teak

2:13pm Tue 11 Jun 13

Bobevans says...

People are basing post on the little information on here.

I would be pretty certain this action would not have been taken without formal proceedings. It would break employment legislation for starters. HR would almost certainly been involved as would the disciplinary procedure

It would not have been the PCDC marching into her office and saying Retire or your Fired

To dismiss someone instantly would require a very serious offence and even then the normal process would be to suspend them on full pay whilst it is being investigated
People are basing post on the little information on here. I would be pretty certain this action would not have been taken without formal proceedings. It would break employment legislation for starters. HR would almost certainly been involved as would the disciplinary procedure It would not have been the PCDC marching into her office and saying Retire or your Fired To dismiss someone instantly would require a very serious offence and even then the normal process would be to suspend them on full pay whilst it is being investigated Bobevans

2:22pm Tue 11 Jun 13

D Taylor says...

Dee-Gee wrote:
D Taylor wrote:
Woodgnome wrote:
The PCC was elected even if the majority didn't bother to vote - so the non voters have only themselves go blame. As usual the moaning starts when it's too late..
This affair is causing me concern as it is others. But I am tired of people who can't be bothered to vote complaining about who was elected by those who did bother. If you don't vote, you don't count. You may not like the idea of a PCC but everyone knew there was going to be one like it or not. Unless people had a genuine reason for abstaining they should have voted. Too late to complain now.
Surely being opposed to the post is a perfectly genuine reason for abstaining?

Let's have a vote on whether we want a PCC or not, and see what the turnout is like.
Possibly, but a lot people abstain from sheer apathy and then complain. Some, who do not support the idea of PCC's, may have found it difficult to cast a vote but not voting didn't make PCC's go away. It just made it less likely that someone with wide support would be elected. I am against PCC's because I think that they place too much power in the hands of one person. But I did vote, albeit not for Mr Johnston because I didn't want an ex police officer in this role. It still remains to be seen whether my concerns were justified. I still can't decide whether Mrs Napier is incompetent or an honest tryer who's upset the establishment at Gwent Police. Anyone remember the misuse of patrol cars scandal?
[quote][p][bold]Dee-Gee[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]D Taylor[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Woodgnome[/bold] wrote: The PCC was elected even if the majority didn't bother to vote - so the non voters have only themselves go blame. As usual the moaning starts when it's too late..[/p][/quote]This affair is causing me concern as it is others. But I am tired of people who can't be bothered to vote complaining about who was elected by those who did bother. If you don't vote, you don't count. You may not like the idea of a PCC but everyone knew there was going to be one like it or not. Unless people had a genuine reason for abstaining they should have voted. Too late to complain now.[/p][/quote]Surely being opposed to the post is a perfectly genuine reason for abstaining? Let's have a vote on whether we want a PCC or not, and see what the turnout is like.[/p][/quote]Possibly, but a lot people abstain from sheer apathy and then complain. Some, who do not support the idea of PCC's, may have found it difficult to cast a vote but not voting didn't make PCC's go away. It just made it less likely that someone with wide support would be elected. I am against PCC's because I think that they place too much power in the hands of one person. But I did vote, albeit not for Mr Johnston because I didn't want an ex police officer in this role. It still remains to be seen whether my concerns were justified. I still can't decide whether Mrs Napier is incompetent or an honest tryer who's upset the establishment at Gwent Police. Anyone remember the misuse of patrol cars scandal? D Taylor

3:31pm Tue 11 Jun 13

NewportBackinBusiness says...

Hi
Whatever the merits of either "side" in this, the people of Gwent have a right to know. I recommend an independent investigation into this situation is essential. There are enough comments from the Police Federation, specific police and the key players themselves to suggest all is not well in Gwent. That said, what public service is well these days?
Hi Whatever the merits of either "side" in this, the people of Gwent have a right to know. I recommend an independent investigation into this situation is essential. There are enough comments from the Police Federation, specific police and the key players themselves to suggest all is not well in Gwent. That said, what public service is well these days? NewportBackinBusiness

3:52pm Tue 11 Jun 13

Trefor says...

I am surprised that the wheels within Gwent police have not turned a lot faster if, As the ex-police officer David Copperfield says, she is guilty of `serious criminal offence` god forbid, the Gwent police is full of police officers one or two who would surly have investigated any criminality on the part of Carmel Napier.

I think all `retired` police officers should do just that when they reach the end of their sell by date, retire, enjoy the fat pension, dig the garden, or take the dog for a walk and leave policing Gwent to the serving officer we, the public, still rely on to do the job.

This forum is certainly NOT the place to have made such serious accusations of serious criminality against any serving police officer. suspected or not.

This is issue is to do with two people not being able to work together, it was NOT done in my name, as is said by the Commissioner, I was not consulted, nore so far as I know was anyone else. Disgraceful piece of grown up people throwing their toys out of the pram.

The next chief Constable will now have to be a puppet of the commissioner in order to do the job, and that is also unacceptable. Roll on the next Commissioner Elections.
I am surprised that the wheels within Gwent police have not turned a lot faster if, As the ex-police officer David Copperfield says, she is guilty of `serious criminal offence` god forbid, the Gwent police is full of police officers one or two who would surly have investigated any criminality on the part of Carmel Napier. I think all `retired` police officers should do just that when they reach the end of their sell by date, retire, enjoy the fat pension, dig the garden, or take the dog for a walk and leave policing Gwent to the serving officer we, the public, still rely on to do the job. This forum is certainly NOT the place to have made such serious accusations of serious criminality against any serving police officer. suspected or not. This is issue is to do with two people not being able to work together, it was NOT done in my name, as is said by the Commissioner, I was not consulted, nore so far as I know was anyone else. Disgraceful piece of grown up people throwing their toys out of the pram. The next chief Constable will now have to be a puppet of the commissioner in order to do the job, and that is also unacceptable. Roll on the next Commissioner Elections. Trefor

3:58pm Tue 11 Jun 13

Trefor says...

I call for a statement from the Gwent Police Commissioner panel, i.e. the people we ELECT to ensure the Commissioner performs and acts in a way that benefits all the people of Gwent that each Panel member represents.

Why have they been so silent on this affair, only two months ago I was a meeting at which all members of this panel expressed their delight with the performance of Carmel Napier., WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN EIGHT WEEKS.
I call for a statement from the Gwent Police Commissioner panel, i.e. the people we ELECT to ensure the Commissioner performs and acts in a way that benefits all the people of Gwent that each Panel member represents. Why have they been so silent on this affair, only two months ago I was a meeting at which all members of this panel expressed their delight with the performance of Carmel Napier., WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN EIGHT WEEKS. Trefor

4:48pm Tue 11 Jun 13

biker1 says...

On a brighter note the acting chief constable Jeff farrar is an amazing acpo officer.
He will without fail work with the Pcc to rebuild policing within gwent, which will benefit the public and police.

Good on you copper field, hope it works out for you.
On a brighter note the acting chief constable Jeff farrar is an amazing acpo officer. He will without fail work with the Pcc to rebuild policing within gwent, which will benefit the public and police. Good on you copper field, hope it works out for you. biker1

4:54pm Tue 11 Jun 13

jobyone says...

I think we've found the ideal candidate for the job Mr Johnson don't you.
I think we've found the ideal candidate for the job Mr Johnson don't you. jobyone

4:58pm Tue 11 Jun 13

Antiloquax2703 says...

As smeone who works on the fringes of policing I can assure you that the drive to 'reduce crime' has only been a paper exercise. Imposing a limit on the number of crimes the force will allow to be recorded in a day is unnatural and whilst it may not breach recording rules it is immoral. Trying to persuade police to take action where as a consequence crime would need to be recorded has proved difficult and frustrating and continues to be so. I agree with the PCC that not recording crime in the ethical way it was meant to be recorded has damaged confidence for what is only a short term fix. For me this demonstrates CC Napier's thinking - selfish, as shown by her acceptance of the log-debated bonus, and taking others for fools. The PCC's view of the damaging effect her personality has had on her relationships in my view is entirely true and my own experience of her is taht she neither values nor cares about the opinions of others where they differ from her own. This has transformed an organisation which traditionally has produced officers and working practices of high calibre into one full of yes-people and scared to commit errors. It is wholly a good thing that the PCC has taken the action he has and a pat on the back to whoever brought the reasons into the public domain - it should be a lesson to all bullies that your behavour will get you caught out in the end.
As smeone who works on the fringes of policing I can assure you that the drive to 'reduce crime' has only been a paper exercise. Imposing a limit on the number of crimes the force will allow to be recorded in a day is unnatural and whilst it may not breach recording rules it is immoral. Trying to persuade police to take action where as a consequence crime would need to be recorded has proved difficult and frustrating and continues to be so. I agree with the PCC that not recording crime in the ethical way it was meant to be recorded has damaged confidence for what is only a short term fix. For me this demonstrates CC Napier's thinking - selfish, as shown by her acceptance of the log-debated bonus, and taking others for fools. The PCC's view of the damaging effect her personality has had on her relationships in my view is entirely true and my own experience of her is taht she neither values nor cares about the opinions of others where they differ from her own. This has transformed an organisation which traditionally has produced officers and working practices of high calibre into one full of yes-people and scared to commit errors. It is wholly a good thing that the PCC has taken the action he has and a pat on the back to whoever brought the reasons into the public domain - it should be a lesson to all bullies that your behavour will get you caught out in the end. Antiloquax2703

5:30pm Tue 11 Jun 13

davidcopperfield says...

Antiloquax2703 wrote:
As smeone who works on the fringes of policing I can assure you that the drive to 'reduce crime' has only been a paper exercise. Imposing a limit on the number of crimes the force will allow to be recorded in a day is unnatural and whilst it may not breach recording rules it is immoral. Trying to persuade police to take action where as a consequence crime would need to be recorded has proved difficult and frustrating and continues to be so. I agree with the PCC that not recording crime in the ethical way it was meant to be recorded has damaged confidence for what is only a short term fix. For me this demonstrates CC Napier's thinking - selfish, as shown by her acceptance of the log-debated bonus, and taking others for fools. The PCC's view of the damaging effect her personality has had on her relationships in my view is entirely true and my own experience of her is taht she neither values nor cares about the opinions of others where they differ from her own. This has transformed an organisation which traditionally has produced officers and working practices of high calibre into one full of yes-people and scared to commit errors. It is wholly a good thing that the PCC has taken the action he has and a pat on the back to whoever brought the reasons into the public domain - it should be a lesson to all bullies that your behavour will get you caught out in the end.
Very well written and very true. She only has herself to blame for her downfall. It doesn't cost to be nice and to listen to other people's views. She was totally unwilling to listen to any view than her own and treated people appallingly. Mr.Johnston summed her up perfectly and I am certain he will do what is right for Gwent Police and the communities in Gwent. I am certain that a Labour party lacky wouldn't have had the guts to act as he did!
[quote][p][bold]Antiloquax2703[/bold] wrote: As smeone who works on the fringes of policing I can assure you that the drive to 'reduce crime' has only been a paper exercise. Imposing a limit on the number of crimes the force will allow to be recorded in a day is unnatural and whilst it may not breach recording rules it is immoral. Trying to persuade police to take action where as a consequence crime would need to be recorded has proved difficult and frustrating and continues to be so. I agree with the PCC that not recording crime in the ethical way it was meant to be recorded has damaged confidence for what is only a short term fix. For me this demonstrates CC Napier's thinking - selfish, as shown by her acceptance of the log-debated bonus, and taking others for fools. The PCC's view of the damaging effect her personality has had on her relationships in my view is entirely true and my own experience of her is taht she neither values nor cares about the opinions of others where they differ from her own. This has transformed an organisation which traditionally has produced officers and working practices of high calibre into one full of yes-people and scared to commit errors. It is wholly a good thing that the PCC has taken the action he has and a pat on the back to whoever brought the reasons into the public domain - it should be a lesson to all bullies that your behavour will get you caught out in the end.[/p][/quote]Very well written and very true. She only has herself to blame for her downfall. It doesn't cost to be nice and to listen to other people's views. She was totally unwilling to listen to any view than her own and treated people appallingly. Mr.Johnston summed her up perfectly and I am certain he will do what is right for Gwent Police and the communities in Gwent. I am certain that a Labour party lacky wouldn't have had the guts to act as he did! davidcopperfield

5:33pm Tue 11 Jun 13

Trefor says...

None of the `opinions` expressed on these pages by these nameless, faceless, and unidentified individuals count one jot.

They could, after all, all be disgruntled fat ex coppers who have had their day anyway. It is becoming tiresome reading the drivel they expound time after time. Get over it I say.
None of the `opinions` expressed on these pages by these nameless, faceless, and unidentified individuals count one jot. They could, after all, all be disgruntled fat ex coppers who have had their day anyway. It is becoming tiresome reading the drivel they expound time after time. Get over it I say. Trefor

5:38pm Tue 11 Jun 13

The_Vulcan says...

Scrap police commissioners, Scrap PCSO's.
Scrap police commissioners, Scrap PCSO's. The_Vulcan

5:59pm Tue 11 Jun 13

Melvyn The Milk says...

Nine months ago I expressed the view that no police officer should be elected to the role of PCC. You can't have police policing the police. I still stand by that view. The majority of the paltry few who turned out to vote for the incumbent were in my opinion serving or ex-officers with a (until now) hidden agenda. The only advantage of the election result is that it takes a bully to sort out a bully and that is precisely what has happened here. We now face the awful situation of a Chief coming into office looking over his shoulder in the direction of the PCC or, worse still, implementing his ideas. This is a dangerous situation and is exactly what I feared.
Nine months ago I expressed the view that no police officer should be elected to the role of PCC. You can't have police policing the police. I still stand by that view. The majority of the paltry few who turned out to vote for the incumbent were in my opinion serving or ex-officers with a (until now) hidden agenda. The only advantage of the election result is that it takes a bully to sort out a bully and that is precisely what has happened here. We now face the awful situation of a Chief coming into office looking over his shoulder in the direction of the PCC or, worse still, implementing his ideas. This is a dangerous situation and is exactly what I feared. Melvyn The Milk

6:14pm Tue 11 Jun 13

jaynie9369 says...

I feel a claim of 'Unfair Dismissal' coming.... oopsy Mr Johnston
I feel a claim of 'Unfair Dismissal' coming.... oopsy Mr Johnston jaynie9369

6:31pm Tue 11 Jun 13

Trefor says...

Constructive dismissal I think you would call this situation, and, it will be interesting to see this affair re-played in public.

There is a meeting of the Crime Commissioners Panel of elected Councillors at the end of this month, anyone who has expressed support for his decision, (taken by a suffer of the Peters Principal. someone promoted to a post, or in this case elected to a post, within which they are proving to be incompetent.) should attend this meeting and get the answers. (sic)
Constructive dismissal I think you would call this situation, and, it will be interesting to see this affair re-played in public. There is a meeting of the Crime Commissioners Panel of elected Councillors at the end of this month, anyone who has expressed support for his decision, (taken by a suffer of the Peters Principal. someone promoted to a post, or in this case elected to a post, within which they are proving to be incompetent.) should attend this meeting and get the answers. (sic) Trefor

6:43pm Tue 11 Jun 13

davidcopperfield says...

Trefor wrote:
None of the `opinions` expressed on these pages by these nameless, faceless, and unidentified individuals count one jot.

They could, after all, all be disgruntled fat ex coppers who have had their day anyway. It is becoming tiresome reading the drivel they expound time after time. Get over it I say.
Why can't you offer a constructive viewpoint instead of your ridiculous postings where the best you can come up with is your name calling of ex officers as "fat". You say "nameless, faceless individuals" and yet you just go under your first name - If it is your first name. You are entitled to an opinion as is every person in Gwent as it affects us all. The fact that you speak in such an appalling manner about Ex-police officers does you no favours. What is the axe that you are grinding? Let's just stick to the facts shall we? I have commented on Napier in respect of her role and how she behaved. The PCC has said officers were warned not to speak to him and threatened with disciplinary action if they did. This does not surprise me one bit. Her style as I have said and as the PCC has said was dismissive, abrupt and unhelpful. Why can't you accept the truth?
[quote][p][bold]Trefor[/bold] wrote: None of the `opinions` expressed on these pages by these nameless, faceless, and unidentified individuals count one jot. They could, after all, all be disgruntled fat ex coppers who have had their day anyway. It is becoming tiresome reading the drivel they expound time after time. Get over it I say.[/p][/quote]Why can't you offer a constructive viewpoint instead of your ridiculous postings where the best you can come up with is your name calling of ex officers as "fat". You say "nameless, faceless individuals" and yet you just go under your first name - If it is your first name. You are entitled to an opinion as is every person in Gwent as it affects us all. The fact that you speak in such an appalling manner about Ex-police officers does you no favours. What is the axe that you are grinding? Let's just stick to the facts shall we? I have commented on Napier in respect of her role and how she behaved. The PCC has said officers were warned not to speak to him and threatened with disciplinary action if they did. This does not surprise me one bit. Her style as I have said and as the PCC has said was dismissive, abrupt and unhelpful. Why can't you accept the truth? davidcopperfield

6:44pm Tue 11 Jun 13

regaturn says...

Just drove past police headquarters, Carmel has gone and she's taken her ridiculous poster claiming 20% crime reductions with her! Happy days, now if we can just have the £6500 bonus back that you received last year please.
Just drove past police headquarters, Carmel has gone and she's taken her ridiculous poster claiming 20% crime reductions with her! Happy days, now if we can just have the £6500 bonus back that you received last year please. regaturn

6:56pm Tue 11 Jun 13

davidcopperfield says...

regaturn wrote:
Just drove past police headquarters, Carmel has gone and she's taken her ridiculous poster claiming 20% crime reductions with her! Happy days, now if we can just have the £6500 bonus back that you received last year please.
Very happy days but I don't see her turning up there in the near future with the £6.5k to return! We need to just be pleased that she's gone.
[quote][p][bold]regaturn[/bold] wrote: Just drove past police headquarters, Carmel has gone and she's taken her ridiculous poster claiming 20% crime reductions with her! Happy days, now if we can just have the £6500 bonus back that you received last year please.[/p][/quote]Very happy days but I don't see her turning up there in the near future with the £6.5k to return! We need to just be pleased that she's gone. davidcopperfield

7:05pm Tue 11 Jun 13

regaturn says...

davidcopperfield wrote:
regaturn wrote:
Just drove past police headquarters, Carmel has gone and she's taken her ridiculous poster claiming 20% crime reductions with her! Happy days, now if we can just have the £6500 bonus back that you received last year please.
Very happy days but I don't see her turning up there in the near future with the £6.5k to return! We need to just be pleased that she's gone.
Yes you are right, but as an ex Gwent police officer who was forced to retire last year after 31 years service I think I'm entitled to wear a smirk on my face today.
[quote][p][bold]davidcopperfield[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]regaturn[/bold] wrote: Just drove past police headquarters, Carmel has gone and she's taken her ridiculous poster claiming 20% crime reductions with her! Happy days, now if we can just have the £6500 bonus back that you received last year please.[/p][/quote]Very happy days but I don't see her turning up there in the near future with the £6.5k to return! We need to just be pleased that she's gone.[/p][/quote]Yes you are right, but as an ex Gwent police officer who was forced to retire last year after 31 years service I think I'm entitled to wear a smirk on my face today. regaturn

8:17pm Tue 11 Jun 13

alongfortheride says...

Woodgnome wrote:
The point about her having an abrupt managerial style has been circulating for some time. Nevertheless the leaking of the letter is no way to run a police force and maybe the police can use their talents to find out who did it!!
Yes Woodgnome... whistle blowing is a terrible... terrible thing and should be always discouraged... people should not do naughty things like that and complain to the people doing wrong shouldn't they!

Nonsense

If it wasn't for whistle blowers no-one would have a clue what was going on... read the national news about Prism!
[quote][p][bold]Woodgnome[/bold] wrote: The point about her having an abrupt managerial style has been circulating for some time. Nevertheless the leaking of the letter is no way to run a police force and maybe the police can use their talents to find out who did it!![/p][/quote]Yes Woodgnome... whistle blowing is a terrible... terrible thing and should be always discouraged... people should not do naughty things like that and complain to the people doing wrong shouldn't they! Nonsense If it wasn't for whistle blowers no-one would have a clue what was going on... read the national news about Prism! alongfortheride

8:20pm Tue 11 Jun 13

alongfortheride says...

white white wrote:
The crime commissioner
Should resign .it was a really
Stupid idea of employing them
Any way but it was forced upon
Us by the Westminster government
Put it this way would you Put a soccer
Manager in place to run a rugby team
No but they elected a Police officer to run the police ?
[quote][p][bold]white white[/bold] wrote: The crime commissioner Should resign .it was a really Stupid idea of employing them Any way but it was forced upon Us by the Westminster government Put it this way would you Put a soccer Manager in place to run a rugby team[/p][/quote]No but they elected a Police officer to run the police ? alongfortheride

9:50pm Tue 11 Jun 13

The Devil's Advocate 355 says...

It would be very interesting if each serving member of Gwent Police (force and Civilian) could be balloted to find out whether they agree with the PCCs decision to "oust" the Chief Constable, or whether they think she has done a good job for both them and the public. After all it is them that bear the brunt of all of her policies whether good or bad and the politicians and councillors only have the statistics that the hierachy feed them to base their analysis on.
It would be very interesting if each serving member of Gwent Police (force and Civilian) could be balloted to find out whether they agree with the PCCs decision to "oust" the Chief Constable, or whether they think she has done a good job for both them and the public. After all it is them that bear the brunt of all of her policies whether good or bad and the politicians and councillors only have the statistics that the hierachy feed them to base their analysis on. The Devil's Advocate 355

11:46am Wed 12 Jun 13

Cwmderi says...

Let's make it absolutely clear. The vast majority of people in Wales did not support the legislation and the introduction of Police Commissioners throughout England and Wales.
This was imposed on us by a London based Tory government with little regard for the views of the Welsh public.
It also leaves a nasty hypocritical taste in the mouth when every Labour MP throughout Gwent openly attacks the position of the Police Commissioner for Gwent. At the same time they fight tooth and nail to defend and cling to their own self interest that policing and the justice system should not be devolved to Wales in the same way that it is in Scotland.
If these political hypocrites spent as much time and energy on supporting their Labour first minister here in Wales in campaigning for devolved policing and justice system then it is extremely unlikely that we would have four Police Commissioners appointed here in Wales.
Devolve policing and the justice system to our own Welsh government and consider electing ONE Commissioner for the whole of Wales to cover an ALL WALES Police force.
This would cut bureaucracy and be far more cost effective with clear lines of command on an all Wales basis.
Let's make it absolutely clear. The vast majority of people in Wales did not support the legislation and the introduction of Police Commissioners throughout England and Wales. This was imposed on us by a London based Tory government with little regard for the views of the Welsh public. It also leaves a nasty hypocritical taste in the mouth when every Labour MP throughout Gwent openly attacks the position of the Police Commissioner for Gwent. At the same time they fight tooth and nail to defend and cling to their own self interest that policing and the justice system should not be devolved to Wales in the same way that it is in Scotland. If these political hypocrites spent as much time and energy on supporting their Labour first minister here in Wales in campaigning for devolved policing and justice system then it is extremely unlikely that we would have four Police Commissioners appointed here in Wales. Devolve policing and the justice system to our own Welsh government and consider electing ONE Commissioner for the whole of Wales to cover an ALL WALES Police force. This would cut bureaucracy and be far more cost effective with clear lines of command on an all Wales basis. Cwmderi

11:59am Wed 12 Jun 13

Richard Bateman says...

Do we know the selection procedure for a new Chief Constable - or does Mr. Johnson already know the ideal candidate ?
Do we know the selection procedure for a new Chief Constable - or does Mr. Johnson already know the ideal candidate ? Richard Bateman

1:43pm Wed 12 Jun 13

welshmen says...

With the retirement of CC Napier, when someone dial's 999 to report a break in, will the Bobbies be there that day or the next day like now, or in hours....
With the retirement of CC Napier, when someone dial's 999 to report a break in, will the Bobbies be there that day or the next day like now, or in hours.... welshmen

10:25pm Wed 12 Jun 13

jaynie9369 says...

What are the odds of the new replacement Chief Constable of Gwent being yet another henchman of yours truly Ian Johnson.
He may as well place a sign at police headquarters saying jobs available any body can apply providing they are my former colleagues, it is a complete joke and embarrassment to the people of Gwent.
What are the odds of the new replacement Chief Constable of Gwent being yet another henchman of yours truly Ian Johnson. He may as well place a sign at police headquarters saying jobs available any body can apply providing they are my former colleagues, it is a complete joke and embarrassment to the people of Gwent. jaynie9369

10:46pm Wed 12 Jun 13

Melvyn The Milk says...

A former colleague would not qualify. HE (and it would have to be a 'he') would have to be a member of the inner inner circle.
A former colleague would not qualify. HE (and it would have to be a 'he') would have to be a member of the inner inner circle. Melvyn The Milk

10:56pm Wed 12 Jun 13

alongfortheride says...

I love it how people are more concerned as to how the PCC required the CC to resign and the powers he has, rather than the bigger point... What led him to ask.

People are hanging on this management style thing but I doubt this has happened because they don't get on, especially after the crime figure scandal and the bonus she received that other chief staff turned down.

I think some will have egg on their face if this "evidence" he says he has turns out to be overwhelming and he has in fact done the best thing for the people of Gwent.

No one is stupid enough to take the action he did without some solid grounds surely.

Also no one is concerned with the fact she could have stayed and fought for her job but instead decided to walk away quietly at first. I imagine he showed her the evidence gave her a choice to leave with dignity and quietly with retirement rather than airing the laundry.

That was the case until the documents were leaked and now it's turned to this.

I have questions I would like answered from both, but the chief more than the PCC. As a tax payer I contributed towards that 6k bonus she had for lowering crime. If that wasn't the case that should go back to the public purse.
I love it how people are more concerned as to how the PCC required the CC to resign and the powers he has, rather than the bigger point... What led him to ask. People are hanging on this management style thing but I doubt this has happened because they don't get on, especially after the crime figure scandal and the bonus she received that other chief staff turned down. I think some will have egg on their face if this "evidence" he says he has turns out to be overwhelming and he has in fact done the best thing for the people of Gwent. No one is stupid enough to take the action he did without some solid grounds surely. Also no one is concerned with the fact she could have stayed and fought for her job but instead decided to walk away quietly at first. I imagine he showed her the evidence gave her a choice to leave with dignity and quietly with retirement rather than airing the laundry. That was the case until the documents were leaked and now it's turned to this. I have questions I would like answered from both, but the chief more than the PCC. As a tax payer I contributed towards that 6k bonus she had for lowering crime. If that wasn't the case that should go back to the public purse. alongfortheride

8:17am Thu 13 Jun 13

Mr Newport says...

Love the way the real story unfolds in the comments section of the Argus.....
Love the way the real story unfolds in the comments section of the Argus..... Mr Newport

5:47pm Thu 13 Jun 13

Melvyn The Milk says...

alongfortheride wrote:
I love it how people are more concerned as to how the PCC required the CC to resign and the powers he has, rather than the bigger point... What led him to ask.

People are hanging on this management style thing but I doubt this has happened because they don't get on, especially after the crime figure scandal and the bonus she received that other chief staff turned down.

I think some will have egg on their face if this "evidence" he says he has turns out to be overwhelming and he has in fact done the best thing for the people of Gwent.

No one is stupid enough to take the action he did without some solid grounds surely.

Also no one is concerned with the fact she could have stayed and fought for her job but instead decided to walk away quietly at first. I imagine he showed her the evidence gave her a choice to leave with dignity and quietly with retirement rather than airing the laundry.

That was the case until the documents were leaked and now it's turned to this.

I have questions I would like answered from both, but the chief more than the PCC. As a tax payer I contributed towards that 6k bonus she had for lowering crime. If that wasn't the case that should go back to the public purse.
Let me pose a question. If the facts are correct and crime figures were altered either at source (i.e. not recorded) or subsequently, then they were false figures. If a person then proceeds to receive a financial gain from that alteration in the form of a nice financial bonus then isn't that a criminal offence? What is the difference between that scenario and Mr or Mrs So-and-so claiming that they live alone and receiving benefits whilst in fact they live with their partner who works? I don't see the difference, apart from the way the protagonists are treated under the law.
[quote][p][bold]alongfortheride[/bold] wrote: I love it how people are more concerned as to how the PCC required the CC to resign and the powers he has, rather than the bigger point... What led him to ask. People are hanging on this management style thing but I doubt this has happened because they don't get on, especially after the crime figure scandal and the bonus she received that other chief staff turned down. I think some will have egg on their face if this "evidence" he says he has turns out to be overwhelming and he has in fact done the best thing for the people of Gwent. No one is stupid enough to take the action he did without some solid grounds surely. Also no one is concerned with the fact she could have stayed and fought for her job but instead decided to walk away quietly at first. I imagine he showed her the evidence gave her a choice to leave with dignity and quietly with retirement rather than airing the laundry. That was the case until the documents were leaked and now it's turned to this. I have questions I would like answered from both, but the chief more than the PCC. As a tax payer I contributed towards that 6k bonus she had for lowering crime. If that wasn't the case that should go back to the public purse.[/p][/quote]Let me pose a question. If the facts are correct and crime figures were altered either at source (i.e. not recorded) or subsequently, then they were false figures. If a person then proceeds to receive a financial gain from that alteration in the form of a nice financial bonus then isn't that a criminal offence? What is the difference between that scenario and Mr or Mrs So-and-so claiming that they live alone and receiving benefits whilst in fact they live with their partner who works? I don't see the difference, apart from the way the protagonists are treated under the law. Melvyn The Milk

6:45pm Thu 13 Jun 13

alongfortheride says...

Melvyn The Milk wrote:
alongfortheride wrote:
I love it how people are more concerned as to how the PCC required the CC to resign and the powers he has, rather than the bigger point... What led him to ask.

People are hanging on this management style thing but I doubt this has happened because they don't get on, especially after the crime figure scandal and the bonus she received that other chief staff turned down.

I think some will have egg on their face if this "evidence" he says he has turns out to be overwhelming and he has in fact done the best thing for the people of Gwent.

No one is stupid enough to take the action he did without some solid grounds surely.

Also no one is concerned with the fact she could have stayed and fought for her job but instead decided to walk away quietly at first. I imagine he showed her the evidence gave her a choice to leave with dignity and quietly with retirement rather than airing the laundry.

That was the case until the documents were leaked and now it's turned to this.

I have questions I would like answered from both, but the chief more than the PCC. As a tax payer I contributed towards that 6k bonus she had for lowering crime. If that wasn't the case that should go back to the public purse.
Let me pose a question. If the facts are correct and crime figures were altered either at source (i.e. not recorded) or subsequently, then they were false figures. If a person then proceeds to receive a financial gain from that alteration in the form of a nice financial bonus then isn't that a criminal offence? What is the difference between that scenario and Mr or Mrs So-and-so claiming that they live alone and receiving benefits whilst in fact they live with their partner who works? I don't see the difference, apart from the way the protagonists are treated under the law.
Completely agree. I would have thought it was criminal, misconduct in a public office?

I'm just speculating, of course everyone is innocent until proven guilty, I'm just wondering if this will be investigated or not
[quote][p][bold]Melvyn The Milk[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]alongfortheride[/bold] wrote: I love it how people are more concerned as to how the PCC required the CC to resign and the powers he has, rather than the bigger point... What led him to ask. People are hanging on this management style thing but I doubt this has happened because they don't get on, especially after the crime figure scandal and the bonus she received that other chief staff turned down. I think some will have egg on their face if this "evidence" he says he has turns out to be overwhelming and he has in fact done the best thing for the people of Gwent. No one is stupid enough to take the action he did without some solid grounds surely. Also no one is concerned with the fact she could have stayed and fought for her job but instead decided to walk away quietly at first. I imagine he showed her the evidence gave her a choice to leave with dignity and quietly with retirement rather than airing the laundry. That was the case until the documents were leaked and now it's turned to this. I have questions I would like answered from both, but the chief more than the PCC. As a tax payer I contributed towards that 6k bonus she had for lowering crime. If that wasn't the case that should go back to the public purse.[/p][/quote]Let me pose a question. If the facts are correct and crime figures were altered either at source (i.e. not recorded) or subsequently, then they were false figures. If a person then proceeds to receive a financial gain from that alteration in the form of a nice financial bonus then isn't that a criminal offence? What is the difference between that scenario and Mr or Mrs So-and-so claiming that they live alone and receiving benefits whilst in fact they live with their partner who works? I don't see the difference, apart from the way the protagonists are treated under the law.[/p][/quote]Completely agree. I would have thought it was criminal, misconduct in a public office? I'm just speculating, of course everyone is innocent until proven guilty, I'm just wondering if this will be investigated or not alongfortheride

8:59pm Thu 13 Jun 13

valleysminx says...

Trefor wrote:
None of the `opinions` expressed on these pages by these nameless, faceless, and unidentified individuals count one jot.

They could, after all, all be disgruntled fat ex coppers who have had their day anyway. It is becoming tiresome reading the drivel they expound time after time. Get over it I say.
Aside from being pompous, self-important and spewing vitriol like textual diarrhoea. You seem to have forgotten to include your full name and picture. Which makes you as faceless as everyone else.

You must be new to the internet as clearly you have no idea how it works.
[quote][p][bold]Trefor[/bold] wrote: None of the `opinions` expressed on these pages by these nameless, faceless, and unidentified individuals count one jot. They could, after all, all be disgruntled fat ex coppers who have had their day anyway. It is becoming tiresome reading the drivel they expound time after time. Get over it I say.[/p][/quote]Aside from being pompous, self-important and spewing vitriol like textual diarrhoea. You seem to have forgotten to include your full name and picture. Which makes you as faceless as everyone else. You must be new to the internet as clearly you have no idea how it works. valleysminx

3:40pm Fri 14 Jun 13

DavidMclean says...

He's a fine one to talk about managerial style! No attempt to solve an issue through dialogue. Simply 'I don't like you, you're outta here!" Sounds like he wants to be Alan Sugar and is intoxicated with power. On the upside, I'll be more interested in voting for the PCC next time, and my X won't be going next to his name!
He's a fine one to talk about managerial style! No attempt to solve an issue through dialogue. Simply 'I don't like you, you're outta here!" Sounds like he wants to be Alan Sugar and is intoxicated with power. On the upside, I'll be more interested in voting for the PCC next time, and my X won't be going next to his name! DavidMclean

5:10pm Fri 14 Jun 13

alongfortheride says...

DavidMclean wrote:
He's a fine one to talk about managerial style! No attempt to solve an issue through dialogue. Simply 'I don't like you, you're outta here!" Sounds like he wants to be Alan Sugar and is intoxicated with power. On the upside, I'll be more interested in voting for the PCC next time, and my X won't be going next to his name!
I don't think that's what he did, what's been reported he did so your comment and view is invalid.

Do you think fiddling the crime figures and receiving a bonus because of those figures should have led to a conversation?
[quote][p][bold]DavidMclean[/bold] wrote: He's a fine one to talk about managerial style! No attempt to solve an issue through dialogue. Simply 'I don't like you, you're outta here!" Sounds like he wants to be Alan Sugar and is intoxicated with power. On the upside, I'll be more interested in voting for the PCC next time, and my X won't be going next to his name![/p][/quote]I don't think that's what he did, what's been reported he did so your comment and view is invalid. Do you think fiddling the crime figures and receiving a bonus because of those figures should have led to a conversation? alongfortheride

9:46am Sat 15 Jun 13

regaturn says...

On a lighter note I've just heard that in addition to the 'Armchair Zumba' award at the next commendation ceremony, Carmel is up for 'Quickest Exit from the Force' award, and the rumour is she'll win it!
On a lighter note I've just heard that in addition to the 'Armchair Zumba' award at the next commendation ceremony, Carmel is up for 'Quickest Exit from the Force' award, and the rumour is she'll win it! regaturn

8:12pm Sat 15 Jun 13

Wildethoughts says...

For whats its worth, just thought I would make the point that despite all of this drama at the top, the officers at the front line of Gwent Police do a great job. Putting themselves in harms way to protect others. I am sure that they just want to do their job and would rather the people at the top just find a way to support them in a positive manner. Whoever it is.
For whats its worth, just thought I would make the point that despite all of this drama at the top, the officers at the front line of Gwent Police do a great job. Putting themselves in harms way to protect others. I am sure that they just want to do their job and would rather the people at the top just find a way to support them in a positive manner. Whoever it is. Wildethoughts

12:56pm Wed 3 Jul 13

allassio says...

This column is getting too long!
Just to get my word in before it finishes -
Trefor: Yes, I'm an overweight retired Police4man from Gwent,
Welshmen: The fact that you can't get a policeman to your home to deal with an incident is not new, or down to Mrs Napier's rule, it's been there for years! The last time I needed the Police action, I had to virtually arm-wrestle them to get there.
Woodgnome: I did not vote for the PCC because I didn't believe it to be necessary - Look what happened!
Anne Teak: Crime figures - they've always been fiddled, even when Mr Johnston was a senior Police Officer in Gwent!
Lastly: D.Taylor - yes there should have been a referendum for the public to decide if they wanted a pcc or not.
This column is getting too long! Just to get my word in before it finishes - Trefor: Yes, I'm an overweight retired Police4man from Gwent, Welshmen: The fact that you can't get a policeman to your home to deal with an incident is not new, or down to Mrs Napier's rule, it's been there for years! The last time I needed the Police action, I had to virtually arm-wrestle them to get there. Woodgnome: I did not vote for the PCC because I didn't believe it to be necessary - Look what happened! Anne Teak: Crime figures - they've always been fiddled, even when Mr Johnston was a senior Police Officer in Gwent! Lastly: D.Taylor - yes there should have been a referendum for the public to decide if they wanted a pcc or not. allassio

Comments are closed on this article.

click2find

About cookies

We want you to enjoy your visit to our website. That's why we use cookies to enhance your experience. By staying on our website you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more about the cookies we use.

I agree