Newport council plans to spend £3k to translate website into Welsh

South Wales Argus: Newport council need to spend £3k to translate website into Welsh Newport council need to spend £3k to translate website into Welsh

A GWENT council that has faced criticisms over the lack of Welsh-language provision online is looking at plans to spend more than £3,000 to translate its website.

Newport council’s website is currently English only and is in breach of the Welsh Language Act – which could leave it slapped with a fine of up to £5,000.

Cardiff council’s translation unit would be employed to translate the site’s content, much of which could go live by July 2015.

The council has previously faced criticism from the Welsh-language pressure group Cymdeithas yr Iaith, which sent Newport council a “congratulations” card for being the only authority in Wales to not have a bilingual website.

According to a report to deputy leader Ray Truman, plans for a bilingual website could initially cost £3,364 for translation work, with ongoing costs of £1,952 a year.

Content would be drawn up in English by council staff but would be translated by a Cardiff council service. Any new online services wouldn’t be launched until the back office can deal with requests in Welsh. Officers admit that the fact Newport is the only council without a Welsh-language web presence “is attracting attention from Welsh-language pressure groups, local people, the media and the Welsh Language Commissioner”.

It says the council is “in breach of the Welsh Language Act”, which could “result in a fine from the Welsh Language Commissioner of up to £5,000 and prompt the commission to launch an investigation”.

The report adds that the council has, during February and March, the chance to present evidence to the commissioner as she prepares to draw up new standards.

Newport has publicly stated that the main barrier to delivering a bilingual website is its content management system, the report says, but the authority has now procured one.

Euros ap Hywel, of Cymdeithas yr Iaith Gymraeg, welcomed the council delivering, but feared the authority was “stuck in a backward-looking mindset”.

Cllr Truman said the council was proposing to do the best it could with the money it has: “We’ve got to do it, it’s the law.”

Comments (87)

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11:44am Mon 27 Jan 14

Walter Devereux says...

"Any new online services wouldn’t be launched until the back office can deal with requests in Welsh."

Hooray! The majority getting penalized for the demands of the minority. Truly the tail is now wagging the dog.
"Any new online services wouldn’t be launched until the back office can deal with requests in Welsh." Hooray! The majority getting penalized for the demands of the minority. Truly the tail is now wagging the dog. Walter Devereux
  • Score: 29

12:30pm Mon 27 Jan 14

jonesjr says...

Glad to see Newport Council finally catching up with the rest of the country, but July 2015? That's some slow progress.

Mr Devereux, the Welsh speakers of Newport pay council tax too. I see no evidence the majority are being penalised, it's the minority being penalised if anyone. Whichever way you want to look at it, it's not the people's fault, it's the council's inability to comply with the law. Welsh and English have had equal status in Wales since 1993.
Glad to see Newport Council finally catching up with the rest of the country, but July 2015? That's some slow progress. Mr Devereux, the Welsh speakers of Newport pay council tax too. I see no evidence the majority are being penalised, it's the minority being penalised if anyone. Whichever way you want to look at it, it's not the people's fault, it's the council's inability to comply with the law. Welsh and English have had equal status in Wales since 1993. jonesjr
  • Score: -25

12:45pm Mon 27 Jan 14

Nospin_1 says...

99% cldn't give a toss, but if it has a setupcost of £3k and yearly cost of apprx £2k WAG shd pay it not our council.

Failng that it shd be a pay site, if they want to read welsh pay for it or read it in english.
99% cldn't give a toss, but if it has a setupcost of £3k and yearly cost of apprx £2k WAG shd pay it not our council. Failng that it shd be a pay site, if they want to read welsh pay for it or read it in english. Nospin_1
  • Score: 15

12:54pm Mon 27 Jan 14

Bobevans says...

Walter Devereux wrote:
"Any new online services wouldn’t be launched until the back office can deal with requests in Welsh."

Hooray! The majority getting penalized for the demands of the minority. Truly the tail is now wagging the dog.
Charge Welsh Speaker a higher council tax to recover the cost of it. Why should a 100% of the Council tax payer have to subsidise the 0.01% and have service cut to hep pay for it as well. They are in cloud cuckoo land if they thing it will only cost £300 add another zero on and it will cost about £5000 a year to maintain and that's without the cost of translating al the council doocuments
[quote][p][bold]Walter Devereux[/bold] wrote: "Any new online services wouldn’t be launched until the back office can deal with requests in Welsh." Hooray! The majority getting penalized for the demands of the minority. Truly the tail is now wagging the dog.[/p][/quote]Charge Welsh Speaker a higher council tax to recover the cost of it. Why should a 100% of the Council tax payer have to subsidise the 0.01% and have service cut to hep pay for it as well. They are in cloud cuckoo land if they thing it will only cost £300 add another zero on and it will cost about £5000 a year to maintain and that's without the cost of translating al the council doocuments Bobevans
  • Score: 13

12:57pm Mon 27 Jan 14

mills191184 says...

I want to see the Welsh language flourish as it did before the English decided to eliminate it. But I think things like this is a waste of time, we should be concentrating on increasing the number of Welsh speakings first ie attract more children to Welsh medium education (or bilingual), more lessons being taught through Welsh in English medium schools (continually phasing in until English medium is removed).

In areas where there's a large amount of welsh speakers then fair enough but until the numbers increase in places like cardiff and newport then its a waste of money.

You could look at it a different way, that they have saved £2K
I want to see the Welsh language flourish as it did before the English decided to eliminate it. But I think things like this is a waste of time, we should be concentrating on increasing the number of Welsh speakings first ie attract more children to Welsh medium education (or bilingual), more lessons being taught through Welsh in English medium schools (continually phasing in until English medium is removed). In areas where there's a large amount of welsh speakers then fair enough but until the numbers increase in places like cardiff and newport then its a waste of money. You could look at it a different way, that they have saved £2K mills191184
  • Score: -36

1:03pm Mon 27 Jan 14

Sometimes says...

Another waste of money brought to you by the Welsh Speaking Nationalists, they should remember that the majority of Welsh people only speak English and are still proud to be Welsh. How many hot meals for the homeless and elderly is this going to cost? Shame on the Welsh Language Commissioner for forcing an English Speaking area to pay for such a useless thing when services are being cut everywhere else, another S4C example of it has to be in Welsh no matter what the cost or need.
Another waste of money brought to you by the Welsh Speaking Nationalists, they should remember that the majority of Welsh people only speak English and are still proud to be Welsh. How many hot meals for the homeless and elderly is this going to cost? Shame on the Welsh Language Commissioner for forcing an English Speaking area to pay for such a useless thing when services are being cut everywhere else, another S4C example of it has to be in Welsh no matter what the cost or need. Sometimes
  • Score: 28

1:21pm Mon 27 Jan 14

Cymreigiwr says...

Yes, fantastic that Wales’ third city is finally beginning to properly support our language and heritage, that of the chartists, as spoken by very many in Newport and across Gwent as confirmed by the census, as well as the many hundreds of schoolchildren in our Welsh medium schools. Maybe you yourself are not interested in the Welsh language, but despite the wild claims of certain vocal Argus website commenters in the past, we do exist in our thousands here in Gwent and always have, and we have the same right to respect and support for our lifestyle as everyone else.

This is great news, but something of a shame it takes the threat of penalties before the Council will finally act. Falch iawn i’w weld o’r diwedd. Also, surely it would make more sense for the council to employ some local Welsh speakers and develop their own Welsh capability, instead of viewing it as an external thing and punting work across to Cardiff. This requirement isn't going away, so surely that would be more efficient and cost effective?
Yes, fantastic that Wales’ third city is finally beginning to properly support our language and heritage, that of the chartists, as spoken by very many in Newport and across Gwent as confirmed by the census, as well as the many hundreds of schoolchildren in our Welsh medium schools. Maybe you yourself are not interested in the Welsh language, but despite the wild claims of certain vocal Argus website commenters in the past, we do exist in our thousands here in Gwent and always have, and we have the same right to respect and support for our lifestyle as everyone else. This is great news, but something of a shame it takes the threat of penalties before the Council will finally act. Falch iawn i’w weld o’r diwedd. Also, surely it would make more sense for the council to employ some local Welsh speakers and develop their own Welsh capability, instead of viewing it as an external thing and punting work across to Cardiff. This requirement isn't going away, so surely that would be more efficient and cost effective? Cymreigiwr
  • Score: -13

2:03pm Mon 27 Jan 14

ghyc60 says...

you would be better off translating it into urdu .that way more people in Newport could understand it
you would be better off translating it into urdu .that way more people in Newport could understand it ghyc60
  • Score: 37

2:16pm Mon 27 Jan 14

Dimenw says...

I know this article is going to go crazy with a load of anti-Welsh language comments by a few bigoted fools. So before that happens, let me inform you a bit, so then you don't look like complete idiots.

First of all, you're going to say things along the lines of “Nobody speaks Welsh, if the vocal minority want to use that stupid language, then make them pay for it!”. Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound?

I'm from Newport, and I speak Welsh, as does my family. No, my family didn't move here from Gwynedd or someplace. We've been here for a very long time. But, by your reasoning, we don't exist. Neither do our friends, or even some of our neighbours.

While it may be true that the Welsh language is losing ground in the heartlands, the fact of the matter is, that there are more and more young people all over the country learning the language. And if you say that the Welsh language education is a drain, well, I can say, I had a Welsh-medium education, along with thousands of other people in the same school, most of whom came from English speaking backgrounds. And I can honestly say, that most people I know, who had a Welsh education are doing a lot better than those who weren't that fortunate.

It's true that if you asked someone if they spoke Welsh, the majority would say no. But if you asked them if they thought it was important, or if they were going to get their children to speak Welsh, then the vast majority would say yes. So, you see, you anti-Welsh people are the minority by a long way. Most people with even half a brain realise the value of the Welsh language.

And you make it sound as if we don't pay taxes, and we're crazy to want to get the services we pay for in Welsh! I mean, how dare we ask the council to stop breaking the law! It's so rude! We should pay more to get the council to obey the law and provide some of our most basic rights! I should not use my mother tongue, the language I'm most comfortable using, to contact the council! I should use the english language as that is what I was told by someone online!!

Seriously, that's the most ridiculous thing ever.

But, you know what, I really don't care about people like you commenting and saying the Welsh language is pointless. The language is here, and it will be passed on to the next generation, and the one after that. No matter how much you vocal minority try and get rid of it, you're not going to win. The language is here to stay. The council have finally realised that.
I know this article is going to go crazy with a load of anti-Welsh language comments by a few bigoted fools. So before that happens, let me inform you a bit, so then you don't look like complete idiots. First of all, you're going to say things along the lines of “Nobody speaks Welsh, if the vocal minority want to use that stupid language, then make them pay for it!”. Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound? I'm from Newport, and I speak Welsh, as does my family. No, my family didn't move here from Gwynedd or someplace. We've been here for a very long time. But, by your reasoning, we don't exist. Neither do our friends, or even some of our neighbours. While it may be true that the Welsh language is losing ground in the heartlands, the fact of the matter is, that there are more and more young people all over the country learning the language. And if you say that the Welsh language education is a drain, well, I can say, I had a Welsh-medium education, along with thousands of other people in the same school, most of whom came from English speaking backgrounds. And I can honestly say, that most people I know, who had a Welsh education are doing a lot better than those who weren't that fortunate. It's true that if you asked someone if they spoke Welsh, the majority would say no. But if you asked them if they thought it was important, or if they were going to get their children to speak Welsh, then the vast majority would say yes. So, you see, you anti-Welsh people are the minority by a long way. Most people with even half a brain realise the value of the Welsh language. And you make it sound as if we don't pay taxes, and we're crazy to want to get the services we pay for in Welsh! I mean, how dare we ask the council to stop breaking the law! It's so rude! We should pay more to get the council to obey the law and provide some of our most basic rights! I should not use my mother tongue, the language I'm most comfortable using, to contact the council! I should use the english language as that is what I was told by someone online!! Seriously, that's the most ridiculous thing ever. But, you know what, I really don't care about people like you commenting and saying the Welsh language is pointless. The language is here, and it will be passed on to the next generation, and the one after that. No matter how much you vocal minority try and get rid of it, you're not going to win. The language is here to stay. The council have finally realised that. Dimenw
  • Score: -6

2:29pm Mon 27 Jan 14

Llanmartinangel says...

mills191184 wrote:
I want to see the Welsh language flourish as it did before the English decided to eliminate it. But I think things like this is a waste of time, we should be concentrating on increasing the number of Welsh speakings first ie attract more children to Welsh medium education (or bilingual), more lessons being taught through Welsh in English medium schools (continually phasing in until English medium is removed).

In areas where there's a large amount of welsh speakers then fair enough but until the numbers increase in places like cardiff and newport then its a waste of money.

You could look at it a different way, that they have saved £2K
I want to see the Welsh language flourish as it did before the English decided to eliminate it'.

It wasn't the English who decided to eliminate it. Welsh people realised that without being able to speak English they had zero chance of ever developing economically or finding jobs. Even now, almost all Welsh speaking work is either tax payer funded, subsidised or forced to be paid for by private businesses. One of the highest paid people in Wales is the Welsh Language minister herself on £104K a year of other people's money.
[quote][p][bold]mills191184[/bold] wrote: I want to see the Welsh language flourish as it did before the English decided to eliminate it. But I think things like this is a waste of time, we should be concentrating on increasing the number of Welsh speakings first ie attract more children to Welsh medium education (or bilingual), more lessons being taught through Welsh in English medium schools (continually phasing in until English medium is removed). In areas where there's a large amount of welsh speakers then fair enough but until the numbers increase in places like cardiff and newport then its a waste of money. You could look at it a different way, that they have saved £2K[/p][/quote]I want to see the Welsh language flourish as it did before the English decided to eliminate it'. It wasn't the English who decided to eliminate it. Welsh people realised that without being able to speak English they had zero chance of ever developing economically or finding jobs. Even now, almost all Welsh speaking work is either tax payer funded, subsidised or forced to be paid for by private businesses. One of the highest paid people in Wales is the Welsh Language minister herself on £104K a year of other people's money. Llanmartinangel
  • Score: 11

2:31pm Mon 27 Jan 14

GardenVarietyMushroom says...

£5k is nothing - let 'em have it if it shuts them up.
£5k is nothing - let 'em have it if it shuts them up. GardenVarietyMushroom
  • Score: -29

2:42pm Mon 27 Jan 14

p stani says...

I am welsh and I do not know one person who speaks the medieval drivel.
I am welsh and I do not know one person who speaks the medieval drivel. p stani
  • Score: 4

2:45pm Mon 27 Jan 14

Dimenw says...

P Stani, get out of your house once in a while and you'll meet a Welsh speaker. We're not rare.
P Stani, get out of your house once in a while and you'll meet a Welsh speaker. We're not rare. Dimenw
  • Score: -7

2:47pm Mon 27 Jan 14

Dimenw says...

Llanmartinangel, yeeeah sure, the english never tried to get rid of the Welsh language.

*cough*Welshnot*coug
h*
Llanmartinangel, yeeeah sure, the english never tried to get rid of the Welsh language. *cough*Welshnot*coug h* Dimenw
  • Score: -1

2:52pm Mon 27 Jan 14

Dimenw says...

Oh, and Llanmartinangel, remind me again, how much is the Chief executive, or any of the higher ranking workers of the council earning? That's public money going to waste right there, but oh no, in your mind, that's ok, as long as it's not a Welsh speaker earning more money than you!
Oh, and Llanmartinangel, remind me again, how much is the Chief executive, or any of the higher ranking workers of the council earning? That's public money going to waste right there, but oh no, in your mind, that's ok, as long as it's not a Welsh speaker earning more money than you! Dimenw
  • Score: -1

3:04pm Mon 27 Jan 14

Llanmartinangel says...

Dimenw wrote:
Oh, and Llanmartinangel, remind me again, how much is the Chief executive, or any of the higher ranking workers of the council earning? That's public money going to waste right there, but oh no, in your mind, that's ok, as long as it's not a Welsh speaker earning more money than you!
Ah the old 'two wrongs make a right' argument. Question: If it's a living language, why does it need anyone on £104K p.a. plus a team of storm-troopers all with civil service pensions to enforce it?
[quote][p][bold]Dimenw[/bold] wrote: Oh, and Llanmartinangel, remind me again, how much is the Chief executive, or any of the higher ranking workers of the council earning? That's public money going to waste right there, but oh no, in your mind, that's ok, as long as it's not a Welsh speaker earning more money than you![/p][/quote]Ah the old 'two wrongs make a right' argument. Question: If it's a living language, why does it need anyone on £104K p.a. plus a team of storm-troopers all with civil service pensions to enforce it? Llanmartinangel
  • Score: 16

3:12pm Mon 27 Jan 14

632a6e7c@opayq.com says...

Loving the comments saying "charge the Welsh speakers more!". Should we also be charging extra council tax to disabled people for wheelchair access because "I'm not disabled, why should I pay for it?"? Selfish attitude.
Welcome to society. If you don't like the way it works (and I don't, personally) then do what you can to get anarchy instead of democracy, because that's what you're talking about when each is responsible for their own.
I don't get sick nor use the NHS, but I still have to pay NI contributions.
No, I'm not a Welsh speaker and yes, I'm from the Newport area. I'd be happy to pay to have our language in use in the area. It's already to anglicised.
Loving the comments saying "charge the Welsh speakers more!". Should we also be charging extra council tax to disabled people for wheelchair access because "I'm not disabled, why should I pay for it?"? Selfish attitude. Welcome to society. If you don't like the way it works (and I don't, personally) then do what you can to get anarchy instead of democracy, because that's what you're talking about when each is responsible for their own. I don't get sick nor use the NHS, but I still have to pay NI contributions. No, I'm not a Welsh speaker and yes, I'm from the Newport area. I'd be happy to pay to have our language in use in the area. It's already to anglicised. 632a6e7c@opayq.com
  • Score: -5

3:24pm Mon 27 Jan 14

Stevenboy says...

Dimenw wrote:
Oh, and Llanmartinangel, remind me again, how much is the Chief executive, or any of the higher ranking workers of the council earning? That's public money going to waste right there, but oh no, in your mind, that's ok, as long as it's not a Welsh speaker earning more money than you!
You only have to look around Wales to see the car-wreck that it is because of people addicted to spending public money in truck loads on knuckle-dragging medieval bull-manure and invented 'Welsh' culture instead of on things which would create real economic growth here. You have people going to food-banks here whilst six-figure execs obsess about place names and how to force the children of people who have no Welsh connection to take a bygone language as a compulsory subject in schools. Bonkers.
[quote][p][bold]Dimenw[/bold] wrote: Oh, and Llanmartinangel, remind me again, how much is the Chief executive, or any of the higher ranking workers of the council earning? That's public money going to waste right there, but oh no, in your mind, that's ok, as long as it's not a Welsh speaker earning more money than you![/p][/quote]You only have to look around Wales to see the car-wreck that it is because of people addicted to spending public money in truck loads on knuckle-dragging medieval bull-manure and invented 'Welsh' culture instead of on things which would create real economic growth here. You have people going to food-banks here whilst six-figure execs obsess about place names and how to force the children of people who have no Welsh connection to take a bygone language as a compulsory subject in schools. Bonkers. Stevenboy
  • Score: 22

3:31pm Mon 27 Jan 14

Stevenboy says...

This story from the BBC regarding National Savings and just how 'widespread' (not) the language use is:
NS&I said that as of February 2012, there were 107 customers corresponding with it in Welsh.
That represented 0.007% of the 1,549,577 NS&I customers living in Wales, and only 0.06% of Welsh deposits. The cost was £900 per Welsh speaking customer.
Living language my back-side.
Full story here.http://www.bbc.
co.uk/news/uk-wales-
21993724
This story from the BBC regarding National Savings and just how 'widespread' (not) the language use is: NS&I said that as of February 2012, there were 107 customers corresponding with it in Welsh. That represented 0.007% of the 1,549,577 NS&I customers living in Wales, and only 0.06% of Welsh deposits. The cost was £900 per Welsh speaking customer. Living language my back-side. Full story here.http://www.bbc. co.uk/news/uk-wales- 21993724 Stevenboy
  • Score: 19

3:36pm Mon 27 Jan 14

Walter Devereux says...

632a6e7c@opayq.com wrote:
Loving the comments saying "charge the Welsh speakers more!". Should we also be charging extra council tax to disabled people for wheelchair access because "I'm not disabled, why should I pay for it?"? Selfish attitude.
Welcome to society. If you don't like the way it works (and I don't, personally) then do what you can to get anarchy instead of democracy, because that's what you're talking about when each is responsible for their own.
I don't get sick nor use the NHS, but I still have to pay NI contributions.
No, I'm not a Welsh speaker and yes, I'm from the Newport area. I'd be happy to pay to have our language in use in the area. It's already to anglicised.
You state "I do not speak the language" and then you refer to it as "our language". This is the kind of muddled thinking that makes people accept this forcing of another culture upon us because they mistakenly believe it is somehow "theirs".
[quote][p][bold]632a6e7c@opayq.com[/bold] wrote: Loving the comments saying "charge the Welsh speakers more!". Should we also be charging extra council tax to disabled people for wheelchair access because "I'm not disabled, why should I pay for it?"? Selfish attitude. Welcome to society. If you don't like the way it works (and I don't, personally) then do what you can to get anarchy instead of democracy, because that's what you're talking about when each is responsible for their own. I don't get sick nor use the NHS, but I still have to pay NI contributions. No, I'm not a Welsh speaker and yes, I'm from the Newport area. I'd be happy to pay to have our language in use in the area. It's already to anglicised.[/p][/quote]You state "I do not speak the language" and then you refer to it as "our language". This is the kind of muddled thinking that makes people accept this forcing of another culture upon us because they mistakenly believe it is somehow "theirs". Walter Devereux
  • Score: -15

3:36pm Mon 27 Jan 14

p stani says...

Dimenw wrote:
P Stani, get out of your house once in a while and you'll meet a Welsh speaker. We're not rare.
I live in a welsh cave on Machen mountain for a great S4c reception.
[quote][p][bold]Dimenw[/bold] wrote: P Stani, get out of your house once in a while and you'll meet a Welsh speaker. We're not rare.[/p][/quote]I live in a welsh cave on Machen mountain for a great S4c reception. p stani
  • Score: 8

3:39pm Mon 27 Jan 14

WELSH BUDDAH says...

632a6e7c@opayq.com wrote:
Loving the comments saying "charge the Welsh speakers more!". Should we also be charging extra council tax to disabled people for wheelchair access because "I'm not disabled, why should I pay for it?"? Selfish attitude.
Welcome to society. If you don't like the way it works (and I don't, personally) then do what you can to get anarchy instead of democracy, because that's what you're talking about when each is responsible for their own.
I don't get sick nor use the NHS, but I still have to pay NI contributions.
No, I'm not a Welsh speaker and yes, I'm from the Newport area. I'd be happy to pay to have our language in use in the area. It's already to anglicised.
Nicely put.....100% right.
[quote][p][bold]632a6e7c@opayq.com[/bold] wrote: Loving the comments saying "charge the Welsh speakers more!". Should we also be charging extra council tax to disabled people for wheelchair access because "I'm not disabled, why should I pay for it?"? Selfish attitude. Welcome to society. If you don't like the way it works (and I don't, personally) then do what you can to get anarchy instead of democracy, because that's what you're talking about when each is responsible for their own. I don't get sick nor use the NHS, but I still have to pay NI contributions. No, I'm not a Welsh speaker and yes, I'm from the Newport area. I'd be happy to pay to have our language in use in the area. It's already to anglicised.[/p][/quote]Nicely put.....100% right. WELSH BUDDAH
  • Score: -1

3:43pm Mon 27 Jan 14

Stevenboy says...

WELSH BUDDAH wrote:
632a6e7c@opayq.com wrote:
Loving the comments saying "charge the Welsh speakers more!". Should we also be charging extra council tax to disabled people for wheelchair access because "I'm not disabled, why should I pay for it?"? Selfish attitude.
Welcome to society. If you don't like the way it works (and I don't, personally) then do what you can to get anarchy instead of democracy, because that's what you're talking about when each is responsible for their own.
I don't get sick nor use the NHS, but I still have to pay NI contributions.
No, I'm not a Welsh speaker and yes, I'm from the Newport area. I'd be happy to pay to have our language in use in the area. It's already to anglicised.
Nicely put.....100% right.
Except that Welsh speakers also speak English so have a choice. Disabled people do not. You'll be telling us next that we should let Welsh speakers have blue badges so they can park on double yellow lines. Hardly the most analytical post then is it?
[quote][p][bold]WELSH BUDDAH[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]632a6e7c@opayq.com[/bold] wrote: Loving the comments saying "charge the Welsh speakers more!". Should we also be charging extra council tax to disabled people for wheelchair access because "I'm not disabled, why should I pay for it?"? Selfish attitude. Welcome to society. If you don't like the way it works (and I don't, personally) then do what you can to get anarchy instead of democracy, because that's what you're talking about when each is responsible for their own. I don't get sick nor use the NHS, but I still have to pay NI contributions. No, I'm not a Welsh speaker and yes, I'm from the Newport area. I'd be happy to pay to have our language in use in the area. It's already to anglicised.[/p][/quote]Nicely put.....100% right.[/p][/quote]Except that Welsh speakers also speak English so have a choice. Disabled people do not. You'll be telling us next that we should let Welsh speakers have blue badges so they can park on double yellow lines. Hardly the most analytical post then is it? Stevenboy
  • Score: 17

3:53pm Mon 27 Jan 14

Dimenw says...

Llanmartinangel wrote:
Dimenw wrote:
Oh, and Llanmartinangel, remind me again, how much is the Chief executive, or any of the higher ranking workers of the council earning? That's public money going to waste right there, but oh no, in your mind, that's ok, as long as it's not a Welsh speaker earning more money than you!
Ah the old 'two wrongs make a right' argument. Question: If it's a living language, why does it need anyone on £104K p.a. plus a team of storm-troopers all with civil service pensions to enforce it?
I think you'll find that there's people earning a lot more money to look after the english language as well. And look how much people earn to do other things, I mean seriously, how can you have a go at expenditure on the Welsh language, when things like "clean Wales", get a load more money!? And if you really care about it that much, get off your backside, go out and try and spread your lovely anti-Welsh message! Let's see how you fare outside your little group of like-minded fools. And I hope that you never venture outside of Newport, or god forbid, you might see another culture!

And you're doubting whether it's a living language! Explain to me then your narrow views on what a living language is. Because, I reeeeally want to know why some internet troll thinks the language I use every single day is a dead language.

And, while you're doing that, do me a favor and answer the points I raised in my first comment, your peanut sized mind intrigues me.
[quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dimenw[/bold] wrote: Oh, and Llanmartinangel, remind me again, how much is the Chief executive, or any of the higher ranking workers of the council earning? That's public money going to waste right there, but oh no, in your mind, that's ok, as long as it's not a Welsh speaker earning more money than you![/p][/quote]Ah the old 'two wrongs make a right' argument. Question: If it's a living language, why does it need anyone on £104K p.a. plus a team of storm-troopers all with civil service pensions to enforce it?[/p][/quote]I think you'll find that there's people earning a lot more money to look after the english language as well. And look how much people earn to do other things, I mean seriously, how can you have a go at expenditure on the Welsh language, when things like "clean Wales", get a load more money!? And if you really care about it that much, get off your backside, go out and try and spread your lovely anti-Welsh message! Let's see how you fare outside your little group of like-minded fools. And I hope that you never venture outside of Newport, or god forbid, you might see another culture! And you're doubting whether it's a living language! Explain to me then your narrow views on what a living language is. Because, I reeeeally want to know why some internet troll thinks the language I use every single day is a dead language. And, while you're doing that, do me a favor and answer the points I raised in my first comment, your peanut sized mind intrigues me. Dimenw
  • Score: -11

3:58pm Mon 27 Jan 14

Dimenw says...

Stevenboy wrote:
This story from the BBC regarding National Savings and just how 'widespread' (not) the language use is:
NS&I said that as of February 2012, there were 107 customers corresponding with it in Welsh.
That represented 0.007% of the 1,549,577 NS&I customers living in Wales, and only 0.06% of Welsh deposits. The cost was £900 per Welsh speaking customer.
Living language my back-side.
Full story here.http://www.bbc.

co.uk/news/uk-wales-

21993724
The reasons for this are; 1) Welsh speakers have gotten used to not having a Welsh language service, and so don't realise it's there as it doesn't get advertised. 2) Due to lack of funding, Welsh services ar often poor compared to the english so people don't want the hassle.

This is not a reflection of the status of the language.
[quote][p][bold]Stevenboy[/bold] wrote: This story from the BBC regarding National Savings and just how 'widespread' (not) the language use is: NS&I said that as of February 2012, there were 107 customers corresponding with it in Welsh. That represented 0.007% of the 1,549,577 NS&I customers living in Wales, and only 0.06% of Welsh deposits. The cost was £900 per Welsh speaking customer. Living language my back-side. Full story here.http://www.bbc. co.uk/news/uk-wales- 21993724[/p][/quote]The reasons for this are; 1) Welsh speakers have gotten used to not having a Welsh language service, and so don't realise it's there as it doesn't get advertised. 2) Due to lack of funding, Welsh services ar often poor compared to the english so people don't want the hassle. This is not a reflection of the status of the language. Dimenw
  • Score: -9

4:00pm Mon 27 Jan 14

Dimenw says...

p stani wrote:
Dimenw wrote:
P Stani, get out of your house once in a while and you'll meet a Welsh speaker. We're not rare.
I live in a welsh cave on Machen mountain for a great S4c reception.
Thought you did, so why don't you crawl back into your empty little hole.
[quote][p][bold]p stani[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dimenw[/bold] wrote: P Stani, get out of your house once in a while and you'll meet a Welsh speaker. We're not rare.[/p][/quote]I live in a welsh cave on Machen mountain for a great S4c reception.[/p][/quote]Thought you did, so why don't you crawl back into your empty little hole. Dimenw
  • Score: -15

4:00pm Mon 27 Jan 14

Dimenw says...

p stani wrote:
Dimenw wrote:
P Stani, get out of your house once in a while and you'll meet a Welsh speaker. We're not rare.
I live in a welsh cave on Machen mountain for a great S4c reception.
Thought you did, so why don't you crawl back into your empty little hole.
[quote][p][bold]p stani[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dimenw[/bold] wrote: P Stani, get out of your house once in a while and you'll meet a Welsh speaker. We're not rare.[/p][/quote]I live in a welsh cave on Machen mountain for a great S4c reception.[/p][/quote]Thought you did, so why don't you crawl back into your empty little hole. Dimenw
  • Score: -19

4:14pm Mon 27 Jan 14

Dimenw says...

Stevenboy wrote:
WELSH BUDDAH wrote:
632a6e7c@opayq.com wrote:
Loving the comments saying "charge the Welsh speakers more!". Should we also be charging extra council tax to disabled people for wheelchair access because "I'm not disabled, why should I pay for it?"? Selfish attitude.
Welcome to society. If you don't like the way it works (and I don't, personally) then do what you can to get anarchy instead of democracy, because that's what you're talking about when each is responsible for their own.
I don't get sick nor use the NHS, but I still have to pay NI contributions.
No, I'm not a Welsh speaker and yes, I'm from the Newport area. I'd be happy to pay to have our language in use in the area. It's already to anglicised.
Nicely put.....100% right.
Except that Welsh speakers also speak English so have a choice. Disabled people do not. You'll be telling us next that we should let Welsh speakers have blue badges so they can park on double yellow lines. Hardly the most analytical post then is it?
The council don't really have a choice on this matter. They either continue to break the law, get smacked with a big fine (£5000 is for one breach but they'd get several fines) and then have you nitwits complain about that, or they could provide a Welsh language website and still have you nitwits complain. It seems to be an obvious answer.
[quote][p][bold]Stevenboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]WELSH BUDDAH[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]632a6e7c@opayq.com[/bold] wrote: Loving the comments saying "charge the Welsh speakers more!". Should we also be charging extra council tax to disabled people for wheelchair access because "I'm not disabled, why should I pay for it?"? Selfish attitude. Welcome to society. If you don't like the way it works (and I don't, personally) then do what you can to get anarchy instead of democracy, because that's what you're talking about when each is responsible for their own. I don't get sick nor use the NHS, but I still have to pay NI contributions. No, I'm not a Welsh speaker and yes, I'm from the Newport area. I'd be happy to pay to have our language in use in the area. It's already to anglicised.[/p][/quote]Nicely put.....100% right.[/p][/quote]Except that Welsh speakers also speak English so have a choice. Disabled people do not. You'll be telling us next that we should let Welsh speakers have blue badges so they can park on double yellow lines. Hardly the most analytical post then is it?[/p][/quote]The council don't really have a choice on this matter. They either continue to break the law, get smacked with a big fine (£5000 is for one breach but they'd get several fines) and then have you nitwits complain about that, or they could provide a Welsh language website and still have you nitwits complain. It seems to be an obvious answer. Dimenw
  • Score: -6

4:21pm Mon 27 Jan 14

Stevenboy says...

Dimenw wrote:
Stevenboy wrote:
This story from the BBC regarding National Savings and just how 'widespread' (not) the language use is:
NS&I said that as of February 2012, there were 107 customers corresponding with it in Welsh.
That represented 0.007% of the 1,549,577 NS&I customers living in Wales, and only 0.06% of Welsh deposits. The cost was £900 per Welsh speaking customer.
Living language my back-side.
Full story here.http://www.bbc.


co.uk/news/uk-wales-


21993724
The reasons for this are; 1) Welsh speakers have gotten used to not having a Welsh language service, and so don't realise it's there as it doesn't get advertised. 2) Due to lack of funding, Welsh services ar often poor compared to the english so people don't want the hassle.

This is not a reflection of the status of the language.
I had to laugh out loud at that one. Bank machines which advertise their available Welsh-ness on the opening screen, have similar negligible uptake on people opting for that option (according to Barclays). As for 'lack of funding', are you serious? It's already compulsory for even the kids of parents who don't want it, has a tv channel no-one watches at £80M a year, has every road sign made twice the size, every document translated even though by default half never even gets looked at, every festival and gathering in Wales with 'Cymru' in the title gets a huge bung from the taxpayer. And late last year, we have performers in a dispute with BBC radio over royalties for music no-one listens to. If throwing money at it worked it wouldn't still be going backwards.
[quote][p][bold]Dimenw[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stevenboy[/bold] wrote: This story from the BBC regarding National Savings and just how 'widespread' (not) the language use is: NS&I said that as of February 2012, there were 107 customers corresponding with it in Welsh. That represented 0.007% of the 1,549,577 NS&I customers living in Wales, and only 0.06% of Welsh deposits. The cost was £900 per Welsh speaking customer. Living language my back-side. Full story here.http://www.bbc. co.uk/news/uk-wales- 21993724[/p][/quote]The reasons for this are; 1) Welsh speakers have gotten used to not having a Welsh language service, and so don't realise it's there as it doesn't get advertised. 2) Due to lack of funding, Welsh services ar often poor compared to the english so people don't want the hassle. This is not a reflection of the status of the language.[/p][/quote]I had to laugh out loud at that one. Bank machines which advertise their available Welsh-ness on the opening screen, have similar negligible uptake on people opting for that option (according to Barclays). As for 'lack of funding', are you serious? It's already compulsory for even the kids of parents who don't want it, has a tv channel no-one watches at £80M a year, has every road sign made twice the size, every document translated even though by default half never even gets looked at, every festival and gathering in Wales with 'Cymru' in the title gets a huge bung from the taxpayer. And late last year, we have performers in a dispute with BBC radio over royalties for music no-one listens to. If throwing money at it worked it wouldn't still be going backwards. Stevenboy
  • Score: 15

4:24pm Mon 27 Jan 14

Dimenw says...

Stevenboy wrote:
Dimenw wrote:
Oh, and Llanmartinangel, remind me again, how much is the Chief executive, or any of the higher ranking workers of the council earning? That's public money going to waste right there, but oh no, in your mind, that's ok, as long as it's not a Welsh speaker earning more money than you!
You only have to look around Wales to see the car-wreck that it is because of people addicted to spending public money in truck loads on knuckle-dragging medieval bull-manure and invented 'Welsh' culture instead of on things which would create real economic growth here. You have people going to food-banks here whilst six-figure execs obsess about place names and how to force the children of people who have no Welsh connection to take a bygone language as a compulsory subject in schools. Bonkers.
Sooo let me get this right... In your mind, people are going to food banks because a tiny number of people get just over £100k to work with the Welsh language? Thousands of people get loads more in public money than the Welsh language commissioner, and she has a hard job, because she has to put up with bigots like you who are above her.

http://www.youtube.c
om/watch?v=Ci40ae8Bl
cE#t=60
[quote][p][bold]Stevenboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dimenw[/bold] wrote: Oh, and Llanmartinangel, remind me again, how much is the Chief executive, or any of the higher ranking workers of the council earning? That's public money going to waste right there, but oh no, in your mind, that's ok, as long as it's not a Welsh speaker earning more money than you![/p][/quote]You only have to look around Wales to see the car-wreck that it is because of people addicted to spending public money in truck loads on knuckle-dragging medieval bull-manure and invented 'Welsh' culture instead of on things which would create real economic growth here. You have people going to food-banks here whilst six-figure execs obsess about place names and how to force the children of people who have no Welsh connection to take a bygone language as a compulsory subject in schools. Bonkers.[/p][/quote]Sooo let me get this right... In your mind, people are going to food banks because a tiny number of people get just over £100k to work with the Welsh language? Thousands of people get loads more in public money than the Welsh language commissioner, and she has a hard job, because she has to put up with bigots like you who are above her. http://www.youtube.c om/watch?v=Ci40ae8Bl cE#t=60 Dimenw
  • Score: -21

4:26pm Mon 27 Jan 14

cymrostudent says...

Stevenboy wrote:
Dimenw wrote:
Stevenboy wrote:
This story from the BBC regarding National Savings and just how 'widespread' (not) the language use is:
NS&I said that as of February 2012, there were 107 customers corresponding with it in Welsh.
That represented 0.007% of the 1,549,577 NS&I customers living in Wales, and only 0.06% of Welsh deposits. The cost was £900 per Welsh speaking customer.
Living language my back-side.
Full story here.http://www.bbc.



co.uk/news/uk-wales-



21993724
The reasons for this are; 1) Welsh speakers have gotten used to not having a Welsh language service, and so don't realise it's there as it doesn't get advertised. 2) Due to lack of funding, Welsh services ar often poor compared to the english so people don't want the hassle.

This is not a reflection of the status of the language.
I had to laugh out loud at that one. Bank machines which advertise their available Welsh-ness on the opening screen, have similar negligible uptake on people opting for that option (according to Barclays). As for 'lack of funding', are you serious? It's already compulsory for even the kids of parents who don't want it, has a tv channel no-one watches at £80M a year, has every road sign made twice the size, every document translated even though by default half never even gets looked at, every festival and gathering in Wales with 'Cymru' in the title gets a huge bung from the taxpayer. And late last year, we have performers in a dispute with BBC radio over royalties for music no-one listens to. If throwing money at it worked it wouldn't still be going backwards.
If you find it such a waste and offensive to your eyes and ears, move away. Solves your issues right there. Welsh is here to stay...you don't hasve to be.
[quote][p][bold]Stevenboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dimenw[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stevenboy[/bold] wrote: This story from the BBC regarding National Savings and just how 'widespread' (not) the language use is: NS&I said that as of February 2012, there were 107 customers corresponding with it in Welsh. That represented 0.007% of the 1,549,577 NS&I customers living in Wales, and only 0.06% of Welsh deposits. The cost was £900 per Welsh speaking customer. Living language my back-side. Full story here.http://www.bbc. co.uk/news/uk-wales- 21993724[/p][/quote]The reasons for this are; 1) Welsh speakers have gotten used to not having a Welsh language service, and so don't realise it's there as it doesn't get advertised. 2) Due to lack of funding, Welsh services ar often poor compared to the english so people don't want the hassle. This is not a reflection of the status of the language.[/p][/quote]I had to laugh out loud at that one. Bank machines which advertise their available Welsh-ness on the opening screen, have similar negligible uptake on people opting for that option (according to Barclays). As for 'lack of funding', are you serious? It's already compulsory for even the kids of parents who don't want it, has a tv channel no-one watches at £80M a year, has every road sign made twice the size, every document translated even though by default half never even gets looked at, every festival and gathering in Wales with 'Cymru' in the title gets a huge bung from the taxpayer. And late last year, we have performers in a dispute with BBC radio over royalties for music no-one listens to. If throwing money at it worked it wouldn't still be going backwards.[/p][/quote]If you find it such a waste and offensive to your eyes and ears, move away. Solves your issues right there. Welsh is here to stay...you don't hasve to be. cymrostudent
  • Score: -18

4:34pm Mon 27 Jan 14

Dimenw says...

Stevenboy wrote:
Dimenw wrote:
Stevenboy wrote:
This story from the BBC regarding National Savings and just how 'widespread' (not) the language use is:
NS&I said that as of February 2012, there were 107 customers corresponding with it in Welsh.
That represented 0.007% of the 1,549,577 NS&I customers living in Wales, and only 0.06% of Welsh deposits. The cost was £900 per Welsh speaking customer.
Living language my back-side.
Full story here.http://www.bbc.



co.uk/news/uk-wales-



21993724
The reasons for this are; 1) Welsh speakers have gotten used to not having a Welsh language service, and so don't realise it's there as it doesn't get advertised. 2) Due to lack of funding, Welsh services ar often poor compared to the english so people don't want the hassle.

This is not a reflection of the status of the language.
I had to laugh out loud at that one. Bank machines which advertise their available Welsh-ness on the opening screen, have similar negligible uptake on people opting for that option (according to Barclays). As for 'lack of funding', are you serious? It's already compulsory for even the kids of parents who don't want it, has a tv channel no-one watches at £80M a year, has every road sign made twice the size, every document translated even though by default half never even gets looked at, every festival and gathering in Wales with 'Cymru' in the title gets a huge bung from the taxpayer. And late last year, we have performers in a dispute with BBC radio over royalties for music no-one listens to. If throwing money at it worked it wouldn't still be going backwards.
You're right, we shouldn't have big bilingual road signs or bilingual documents, it's crazy. We should just have them in Welsh, then fools like you would have two options; learn the language (or at least put up with it), or go to england.
[quote][p][bold]Stevenboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dimenw[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stevenboy[/bold] wrote: This story from the BBC regarding National Savings and just how 'widespread' (not) the language use is: NS&I said that as of February 2012, there were 107 customers corresponding with it in Welsh. That represented 0.007% of the 1,549,577 NS&I customers living in Wales, and only 0.06% of Welsh deposits. The cost was £900 per Welsh speaking customer. Living language my back-side. Full story here.http://www.bbc. co.uk/news/uk-wales- 21993724[/p][/quote]The reasons for this are; 1) Welsh speakers have gotten used to not having a Welsh language service, and so don't realise it's there as it doesn't get advertised. 2) Due to lack of funding, Welsh services ar often poor compared to the english so people don't want the hassle. This is not a reflection of the status of the language.[/p][/quote]I had to laugh out loud at that one. Bank machines which advertise their available Welsh-ness on the opening screen, have similar negligible uptake on people opting for that option (according to Barclays). As for 'lack of funding', are you serious? It's already compulsory for even the kids of parents who don't want it, has a tv channel no-one watches at £80M a year, has every road sign made twice the size, every document translated even though by default half never even gets looked at, every festival and gathering in Wales with 'Cymru' in the title gets a huge bung from the taxpayer. And late last year, we have performers in a dispute with BBC radio over royalties for music no-one listens to. If throwing money at it worked it wouldn't still be going backwards.[/p][/quote]You're right, we shouldn't have big bilingual road signs or bilingual documents, it's crazy. We should just have them in Welsh, then fools like you would have two options; learn the language (or at least put up with it), or go to england. Dimenw
  • Score: -18

6:33pm Mon 27 Jan 14

welshmen says...

When in Wales comes to mind, same old argument same old answers, and your all still paying, get over it.... cael ysed iddo, posteri da ynos....
When in Wales comes to mind, same old argument same old answers, and your all still paying, get over it.... cael ysed iddo, posteri da ynos.... welshmen
  • Score: -19

7:20pm Mon 27 Jan 14

scraptheWAG says...

cost 5k rubbish they have already bought new software because the old system could not run it next there will be a welsh language officer and next their won little department
cost 5k rubbish they have already bought new software because the old system could not run it next there will be a welsh language officer and next their won little department scraptheWAG
  • Score: 12

8:11pm Mon 27 Jan 14

Walter Devereux says...

Dimenw wrote:
Stevenboy wrote:
Dimenw wrote:
Stevenboy wrote:
This story from the BBC regarding National Savings and just how 'widespread' (not) the language use is:
NS&I said that as of February 2012, there were 107 customers corresponding with it in Welsh.
That represented 0.007% of the 1,549,577 NS&I customers living in Wales, and only 0.06% of Welsh deposits. The cost was £900 per Welsh speaking customer.
Living language my back-side.
Full story here.http://www.bbc.




co.uk/news/uk-wales-




21993724
The reasons for this are; 1) Welsh speakers have gotten used to not having a Welsh language service, and so don't realise it's there as it doesn't get advertised. 2) Due to lack of funding, Welsh services ar often poor compared to the english so people don't want the hassle.

This is not a reflection of the status of the language.
I had to laugh out loud at that one. Bank machines which advertise their available Welsh-ness on the opening screen, have similar negligible uptake on people opting for that option (according to Barclays). As for 'lack of funding', are you serious? It's already compulsory for even the kids of parents who don't want it, has a tv channel no-one watches at £80M a year, has every road sign made twice the size, every document translated even though by default half never even gets looked at, every festival and gathering in Wales with 'Cymru' in the title gets a huge bung from the taxpayer. And late last year, we have performers in a dispute with BBC radio over royalties for music no-one listens to. If throwing money at it worked it wouldn't still be going backwards.
You're right, we shouldn't have big bilingual road signs or bilingual documents, it's crazy. We should just have them in Welsh, then fools like you would have two options; learn the language (or at least put up with it), or go to england.
That is such a terrible argument. Telling people who were born and bred here to move away because they don't want a culture forced upon them. You know that ethnic cleansing is against international law don't you?
[quote][p][bold]Dimenw[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stevenboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dimenw[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stevenboy[/bold] wrote: This story from the BBC regarding National Savings and just how 'widespread' (not) the language use is: NS&I said that as of February 2012, there were 107 customers corresponding with it in Welsh. That represented 0.007% of the 1,549,577 NS&I customers living in Wales, and only 0.06% of Welsh deposits. The cost was £900 per Welsh speaking customer. Living language my back-side. Full story here.http://www.bbc. co.uk/news/uk-wales- 21993724[/p][/quote]The reasons for this are; 1) Welsh speakers have gotten used to not having a Welsh language service, and so don't realise it's there as it doesn't get advertised. 2) Due to lack of funding, Welsh services ar often poor compared to the english so people don't want the hassle. This is not a reflection of the status of the language.[/p][/quote]I had to laugh out loud at that one. Bank machines which advertise their available Welsh-ness on the opening screen, have similar negligible uptake on people opting for that option (according to Barclays). As for 'lack of funding', are you serious? It's already compulsory for even the kids of parents who don't want it, has a tv channel no-one watches at £80M a year, has every road sign made twice the size, every document translated even though by default half never even gets looked at, every festival and gathering in Wales with 'Cymru' in the title gets a huge bung from the taxpayer. And late last year, we have performers in a dispute with BBC radio over royalties for music no-one listens to. If throwing money at it worked it wouldn't still be going backwards.[/p][/quote]You're right, we shouldn't have big bilingual road signs or bilingual documents, it's crazy. We should just have them in Welsh, then fools like you would have two options; learn the language (or at least put up with it), or go to england.[/p][/quote]That is such a terrible argument. Telling people who were born and bred here to move away because they don't want a culture forced upon them. You know that ethnic cleansing is against international law don't you? Walter Devereux
  • Score: 20

8:45pm Mon 27 Jan 14

Gooding says...

The intellectual pygmies are back. by LAW we have to make it bi-lingual. Of all the laws people decide to have a pop at this one, at a cost of £5k. Big deal, get over it! I would be more concerned about some of the crazy stuff coming out of The EU! Far more worrying surely?

I'm Newport born, Welsh speaking and proud on both fronts. I'm also sick of the constant moaning and complaining about everything to do with the town. S*** sticks-so keep telling everyone how awful the town is and it will never improve! For starters, most Newport people are great. Don't make the mistake that the offerings around Newport town centre are the measuring stick!I like culture and history, I think they are very important to our identity and could be a usp - if you don't want a part of our national language then fine. Don't criticise the more cultured folk who do! You sound like moron's!
The intellectual pygmies are back. by LAW we have to make it bi-lingual. Of all the laws people decide to have a pop at this one, at a cost of £5k. Big deal, get over it! I would be more concerned about some of the crazy stuff coming out of The EU! Far more worrying surely? I'm Newport born, Welsh speaking and proud on both fronts. I'm also sick of the constant moaning and complaining about everything to do with the town. S*** sticks-so keep telling everyone how awful the town is and it will never improve! For starters, most Newport people are great. Don't make the mistake that the offerings around Newport town centre are the measuring stick!I like culture and history, I think they are very important to our identity and could be a usp - if you don't want a part of our national language then fine. Don't criticise the more cultured folk who do! You sound like moron's! Gooding
  • Score: -8

11:01pm Mon 27 Jan 14

Floppy backed says...

Will it bring money into Newport - No
Does speaking welsh open doors to the world - No
My 8 yr old son asks why is has to learn it in school when he says it pointless, teachers hate teaching it - fact.
Will it help my children's education - be successful - No
Do they speak it in university - No
Do they speak it outside Wales - No
Will it make improve my business and more employment - No
Will it improve services offered by the LA - No
So is it value for money - No

Its a dead language - accept it and move on - Stop Wales from going backwards when the world is moving forward.

And just because some of us dont speak the language doesnt make us less cultural or less Welsh either - stupid!
Will it bring money into Newport - No Does speaking welsh open doors to the world - No My 8 yr old son asks why is has to learn it in school when he says it pointless, teachers hate teaching it - fact. Will it help my children's education - be successful - No Do they speak it in university - No Do they speak it outside Wales - No Will it make improve my business and more employment - No Will it improve services offered by the LA - No So is it value for money - No Its a dead language - accept it and move on - Stop Wales from going backwards when the world is moving forward. And just because some of us dont speak the language doesnt make us less cultural or less Welsh either - stupid! Floppy backed
  • Score: 12

7:58am Tue 28 Jan 14

Crossbenchtory says...

I was born in Pembrokeshire , I have lived in Gwent for 7 years now and the only place I have ever heard Welsh spoken in conversation was in a pub in Wellington, New Zealand.

This, I believe, sums up the position of Welsh in modern Wales, a seldom used novelty whose existence is indulged by politically correct politicians and the intelligencia at some expense to the taxpayers of Wales, the vast majority of whom find Welsh an incomprehensible foreign language and are more and more excluded from public sector employment because of their monoglot status. This increasing exclusionis nothing more or less than a policy of linguistic apartheid and is leading to a great deal of resentment of the Welsh language.

On a more positive note, I would recommend the Welsh Dragon Bar in Wellington, New Zealand as a great night out in that part of the world. It is owned by a lovely couple from Swansea, neither of whom speak Welsh, who are always ready with the best of Welsh hospitality.
I was born in Pembrokeshire , I have lived in Gwent for 7 years now and the only place I have ever heard Welsh spoken in conversation was in a pub in Wellington, New Zealand. This, I believe, sums up the position of Welsh in modern Wales, a seldom used novelty whose existence is indulged by politically correct politicians and the intelligencia at some expense to the taxpayers of Wales, the vast majority of whom find Welsh an incomprehensible foreign language and are more and more excluded from public sector employment because of their monoglot status. This increasing exclusionis nothing more or less than a policy of linguistic apartheid and is leading to a great deal of resentment of the Welsh language. On a more positive note, I would recommend the Welsh Dragon Bar in Wellington, New Zealand as a great night out in that part of the world. It is owned by a lovely couple from Swansea, neither of whom speak Welsh, who are always ready with the best of Welsh hospitality. Crossbenchtory
  • Score: 8

8:45am Tue 28 Jan 14

grumpyandopinionated says...

I think that the people that speak Welsh should band together and do the translation themselfs, as this would take less time and the cost would be minimal, but I think that would be to easy for the council to think of.

I do have mixed views about there having to be dual language on advertisments etc etc. I do not want to see the Welsh language die out, I would like to see Welsh being taught in EVERY school rather than french or german or what ever language they teach other than Welsh these days. I had countless arguments with my teachers that i didn't want to learn french I wanted to learn Welsh, and I didn't want to move schools either. My point is that there is nothing wrong with being patriotic, I consider myself to be Welsh first and British second, and I am proud to be both. But I was told that if I went on holiday that it could come in handy to learn french..... but I've been to greece, spain and other english speaking nations so french was a waste of time. I spent 4 years living and working in Caernarfon in North Wales, the majority of people are welsh speakers and I don't so Welsh would have been alot more benificial.

My views against having to have a dual language in any sort of publication is that it adds extra cost which has to be covered some how, this means money not being spent on other things and goods and services being slightly more expensive. I suppose the cost is negligable but if your advertising a job then surely the advert is going ot cost twice as much, which can put people off advertising jobs, I know this mainly applies to public bodies advertising and I think most businesses do it to be PC. In my view the cost would be justified if the majority of those spoke welsh, but then would the cost be justified to write it in english for those that don't speak welsh.

I think that both views carry weight and its not the welsh speakers creating noise over nothing as if your welsh you should be able to speak welsh. It's not something thats going to change over night but thats the point, teaching it from an early age will eventually filter out to the wider population. This will take time and I say that action should be taken now to change this rather than being 10 or more years down the line and still having the same debate. I don't think that the welsh language should be forced on someone though, you should still be able to make a choice.
I think that the people that speak Welsh should band together and do the translation themselfs, as this would take less time and the cost would be minimal, but I think that would be to easy for the council to think of. I do have mixed views about there having to be dual language on advertisments etc etc. I do not want to see the Welsh language die out, I would like to see Welsh being taught in EVERY school rather than french or german or what ever language they teach other than Welsh these days. I had countless arguments with my teachers that i didn't want to learn french I wanted to learn Welsh, and I didn't want to move schools either. My point is that there is nothing wrong with being patriotic, I consider myself to be Welsh first and British second, and I am proud to be both. But I was told that if I went on holiday that it could come in handy to learn french..... but I've been to greece, spain and other english speaking nations so french was a waste of time. I spent 4 years living and working in Caernarfon in North Wales, the majority of people are welsh speakers and I don't so Welsh would have been alot more benificial. My views against having to have a dual language in any sort of publication is that it adds extra cost which has to be covered some how, this means money not being spent on other things and goods and services being slightly more expensive. I suppose the cost is negligable but if your advertising a job then surely the advert is going ot cost twice as much, which can put people off advertising jobs, I know this mainly applies to public bodies advertising and I think most businesses do it to be PC. In my view the cost would be justified if the majority of those spoke welsh, but then would the cost be justified to write it in english for those that don't speak welsh. I think that both views carry weight and its not the welsh speakers creating noise over nothing as if your welsh you should be able to speak welsh. It's not something thats going to change over night but thats the point, teaching it from an early age will eventually filter out to the wider population. This will take time and I say that action should be taken now to change this rather than being 10 or more years down the line and still having the same debate. I don't think that the welsh language should be forced on someone though, you should still be able to make a choice. grumpyandopinionated
  • Score: 0

8:48am Tue 28 Jan 14

WELSH BUDDAH says...

Stevenboy wrote:
WELSH BUDDAH wrote:
632a6e7c@opayq.com wrote:
Loving the comments saying "charge the Welsh speakers more!". Should we also be charging extra council tax to disabled people for wheelchair access because "I'm not disabled, why should I pay for it?"? Selfish attitude.
Welcome to society. If you don't like the way it works (and I don't, personally) then do what you can to get anarchy instead of democracy, because that's what you're talking about when each is responsible for their own.
I don't get sick nor use the NHS, but I still have to pay NI contributions.
No, I'm not a Welsh speaker and yes, I'm from the Newport area. I'd be happy to pay to have our language in use in the area. It's already to anglicised.
Nicely put.....100% right.
Except that Welsh speakers also speak English so have a choice. Disabled people do not. You'll be telling us next that we should let Welsh speakers have blue badges so they can park on double yellow lines. Hardly the most analytical post then is it?
Yes I agree we all have rights and I know we all have a choice I agree it is a lot of money but we live in Wales. Anti Welsh on here does not help anybody and the language should be spoken by us if we please. There are certain things I don't agree with 1 letters should be printed in either Welsh or English and the people of Wales given the choice 2 the road signs should be in Welsh the same as any other country 3 if the local councils had of done this as they should of they would not be wasting the people of Newports money now. This is Wales and the South Wales Argus instigates these arguments as I would of thought they are anti Welsh.
[quote][p][bold]Stevenboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]WELSH BUDDAH[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]632a6e7c@opayq.com[/bold] wrote: Loving the comments saying "charge the Welsh speakers more!". Should we also be charging extra council tax to disabled people for wheelchair access because "I'm not disabled, why should I pay for it?"? Selfish attitude. Welcome to society. If you don't like the way it works (and I don't, personally) then do what you can to get anarchy instead of democracy, because that's what you're talking about when each is responsible for their own. I don't get sick nor use the NHS, but I still have to pay NI contributions. No, I'm not a Welsh speaker and yes, I'm from the Newport area. I'd be happy to pay to have our language in use in the area. It's already to anglicised.[/p][/quote]Nicely put.....100% right.[/p][/quote]Except that Welsh speakers also speak English so have a choice. Disabled people do not. You'll be telling us next that we should let Welsh speakers have blue badges so they can park on double yellow lines. Hardly the most analytical post then is it?[/p][/quote]Yes I agree we all have rights and I know we all have a choice I agree it is a lot of money but we live in Wales. Anti Welsh on here does not help anybody and the language should be spoken by us if we please. There are certain things I don't agree with 1 letters should be printed in either Welsh or English and the people of Wales given the choice 2 the road signs should be in Welsh the same as any other country 3 if the local councils had of done this as they should of they would not be wasting the people of Newports money now. This is Wales and the South Wales Argus instigates these arguments as I would of thought they are anti Welsh. WELSH BUDDAH
  • Score: -4

9:12am Tue 28 Jan 14

gracief says...

I work in a large orgnaisation and we had to provide a Welsh language option at our call centre. This costs a huge amount of money and in 8 years the function has only been used a couple of times. Scandalous waste of money in my opinion.
I work in a large orgnaisation and we had to provide a Welsh language option at our call centre. This costs a huge amount of money and in 8 years the function has only been used a couple of times. Scandalous waste of money in my opinion. gracief
  • Score: 12

9:47am Tue 28 Jan 14

Walter Devereux says...

WELSH BUDDAH wrote:
Stevenboy wrote:
WELSH BUDDAH wrote:
632a6e7c@opayq.com wrote:
Loving the comments saying "charge the Welsh speakers more!". Should we also be charging extra council tax to disabled people for wheelchair access because "I'm not disabled, why should I pay for it?"? Selfish attitude.
Welcome to society. If you don't like the way it works (and I don't, personally) then do what you can to get anarchy instead of democracy, because that's what you're talking about when each is responsible for their own.
I don't get sick nor use the NHS, but I still have to pay NI contributions.
No, I'm not a Welsh speaker and yes, I'm from the Newport area. I'd be happy to pay to have our language in use in the area. It's already to anglicised.
Nicely put.....100% right.
Except that Welsh speakers also speak English so have a choice. Disabled people do not. You'll be telling us next that we should let Welsh speakers have blue badges so they can park on double yellow lines. Hardly the most analytical post then is it?
Yes I agree we all have rights and I know we all have a choice I agree it is a lot of money but we live in Wales. Anti Welsh on here does not help anybody and the language should be spoken by us if we please. There are certain things I don't agree with 1 letters should be printed in either Welsh or English and the people of Wales given the choice 2 the road signs should be in Welsh the same as any other country 3 if the local councils had of done this as they should of they would not be wasting the people of Newports money now. This is Wales and the South Wales Argus instigates these arguments as I would of thought they are anti Welsh.
How can you type "the road signs should be in Welsh the same as any other country" with a straight face? Any argument you may have disappears completely when such nonsense is written. This debate is rooted in what actually happens in the real world, not some Cymrist's fantasy land. It is this kind of risible nonsense that people are against. Incidentally, you seem to have such a poor grasp of the English language I'm not sure you should be lecturing anybody on the subject.
[quote][p][bold]WELSH BUDDAH[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stevenboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]WELSH BUDDAH[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]632a6e7c@opayq.com[/bold] wrote: Loving the comments saying "charge the Welsh speakers more!". Should we also be charging extra council tax to disabled people for wheelchair access because "I'm not disabled, why should I pay for it?"? Selfish attitude. Welcome to society. If you don't like the way it works (and I don't, personally) then do what you can to get anarchy instead of democracy, because that's what you're talking about when each is responsible for their own. I don't get sick nor use the NHS, but I still have to pay NI contributions. No, I'm not a Welsh speaker and yes, I'm from the Newport area. I'd be happy to pay to have our language in use in the area. It's already to anglicised.[/p][/quote]Nicely put.....100% right.[/p][/quote]Except that Welsh speakers also speak English so have a choice. Disabled people do not. You'll be telling us next that we should let Welsh speakers have blue badges so they can park on double yellow lines. Hardly the most analytical post then is it?[/p][/quote]Yes I agree we all have rights and I know we all have a choice I agree it is a lot of money but we live in Wales. Anti Welsh on here does not help anybody and the language should be spoken by us if we please. There are certain things I don't agree with 1 letters should be printed in either Welsh or English and the people of Wales given the choice 2 the road signs should be in Welsh the same as any other country 3 if the local councils had of done this as they should of they would not be wasting the people of Newports money now. This is Wales and the South Wales Argus instigates these arguments as I would of thought they are anti Welsh.[/p][/quote]How can you type "the road signs should be in Welsh the same as any other country" with a straight face? Any argument you may have disappears completely when such nonsense is written. This debate is rooted in what actually happens in the real world, not some Cymrist's fantasy land. It is this kind of risible nonsense that people are against. Incidentally, you seem to have such a poor grasp of the English language I'm not sure you should be lecturing anybody on the subject. Walter Devereux
  • Score: 10

10:09am Tue 28 Jan 14

Cymreigiwr says...

Great idea - let's look at some facts for a change, instead of just uninformed prejudice? Thanks to the ONS (with offices here in Newport!), we have a thing called a Census which tells even those of you with extreme cultural blindness that Welsh is very alive (yes, even here in Newport) with 18,308 people who can use it, and across Gwent the figure is 78,052. This works out to about 1 in every 7 people locally, and everywhere else in Wales the proportion is higher, so in fact Welsh is very alive. Welsh was officially stifled for generations, thanks to ideas like yours, but we know better now, and Welsh is growing again, although this is masked by the huge numbers of incomers into our country. Relax, it's not likely to overtake English, but it is entitled to thrive here. If you're Welsh, then it's your culture too (yes, even here) so why stamp on your own heritage instead of celebrating it? We're not your enemy, we just want a bit of respect and a fair crack of the whip.

Given that your prejudices are factually wrong, what is it that makes you so quick to argue to deny our rights? We can all see that at some point you took against Welsh and decided it was inconvenient and no use to you, but thankfully in this country, evidence is taken into account in setting policy, and outside the blinkered Argus angry mob, most of the population are happy for it to thrive.

And by the way, it's pretty breathtaking irony to argue against the rights of we many who support our language, and then suggest it's 'ethnic cleansing' when someone states the obvious fact that if you want to avoid Welsh entirely you'd need to leave Wales! We'd actually love you to stay, just without your nasty prejudice against us.
Great idea - let's look at some facts for a change, instead of just uninformed prejudice? Thanks to the ONS (with offices here in Newport!), we have a thing called a Census which tells even those of you with extreme cultural blindness that Welsh is very alive (yes, even here in Newport) with 18,308 people who can use it, and across Gwent the figure is 78,052. This works out to about 1 in every 7 people locally, and everywhere else in Wales the proportion is higher, so in fact Welsh is very alive. Welsh was officially stifled for generations, thanks to ideas like yours, but we know better now, and Welsh is growing again, although this is masked by the huge numbers of incomers into our country. Relax, it's not likely to overtake English, but it is entitled to thrive here. If you're Welsh, then it's your culture too (yes, even here) so why stamp on your own heritage instead of celebrating it? We're not your enemy, we just want a bit of respect and a fair crack of the whip. Given that your prejudices are factually wrong, what is it that makes you so quick to argue to deny our rights? We can all see that at some point you took against Welsh and decided it was inconvenient and no use to you, but thankfully in this country, evidence is taken into account in setting policy, and outside the blinkered Argus angry mob, most of the population are happy for it to thrive. And by the way, it's pretty breathtaking irony to argue against the rights of we many who support our language, and then suggest it's 'ethnic cleansing' when someone states the obvious fact that if you want to avoid Welsh entirely you'd need to leave Wales! We'd actually love you to stay, just without your nasty prejudice against us. Cymreigiwr
  • Score: -9

12:58pm Tue 28 Jan 14

briesmith says...

Wales has major economic difficulties; emigration of the best brains, low productivity, overlarge public sector, difficult communications, neglected infrastructure and so on. All of which add up to increasing divergence from the greater UK economy.
Does anyone believe that obsessing about Welsh is going to help solve any of these problems?
How welcoming is Wales with its mad compulsion about a largely made-up language from the age of the Hobbits to incoming international businesses and on which any recovery to a major part depends?
deffro ac arogl y coffi
Wales has major economic difficulties; emigration of the best brains, low productivity, overlarge public sector, difficult communications, neglected infrastructure and so on. All of which add up to increasing divergence from the greater UK economy. Does anyone believe that obsessing about Welsh is going to help solve any of these problems? How welcoming is Wales with its mad compulsion about a largely made-up language from the age of the Hobbits to incoming international businesses and on which any recovery to a major part depends? deffro ac arogl y coffi briesmith
  • Score: 15

1:04pm Tue 28 Jan 14

mills191184 says...

Llanmartinangel wrote:
mills191184 wrote:
I want to see the Welsh language flourish as it did before the English decided to eliminate it. But I think things like this is a waste of time, we should be concentrating on increasing the number of Welsh speakings first ie attract more children to Welsh medium education (or bilingual), more lessons being taught through Welsh in English medium schools (continually phasing in until English medium is removed).

In areas where there's a large amount of welsh speakers then fair enough but until the numbers increase in places like cardiff and newport then its a waste of money.

You could look at it a different way, that they have saved £2K
I want to see the Welsh language flourish as it did before the English decided to eliminate it'.

It wasn't the English who decided to eliminate it. Welsh people realised that without being able to speak English they had zero chance of ever developing economically or finding jobs. Even now, almost all Welsh speaking work is either tax payer funded, subsidised or forced to be paid for by private businesses. One of the highest paid people in Wales is the Welsh Language minister herself on £104K a year of other people's money.
If you really think that you're an idiot, uneducated and know nothing of Welsh history.

The then English government decided to have one single language thought the realms. The did this by opening state schools and forced children to speak one language, English. Any child speaking Welsh was punished.

Its the reason why Cornish is extinct, why Irish & Scottish Gaelic is on the almost gone.

English has to be taught in schools, Welsh medium or bilingual schools, you don't have a choice whether or not you want to speak the language.

Well I believe all schools in Cymru should be welsh medium, so does that mean I shouldn't have to pay for the children in English medium education?

The local councils now have to, not just cater to demand, but promote growth; the cheapest way to do this would be to increase the welsh spoken in English medium schools until they are either bilingual (50/50) or welsh medium (70/30).

Besides Welsh is easier than English to learn and the children who's first language is Welsh are able to learn English a lot easier as Welsh is heavy reliant on phonics. Those are the conclusion of a cambridge study (http://journals.cam
bridge.org/action/di
splayAbstract;jsessi
onid=2B5B6440A048B5C
C2285F6EB7A1F73A0.jo
urnals?fromPage=onli
ne&aid=110463)
[quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mills191184[/bold] wrote: I want to see the Welsh language flourish as it did before the English decided to eliminate it. But I think things like this is a waste of time, we should be concentrating on increasing the number of Welsh speakings first ie attract more children to Welsh medium education (or bilingual), more lessons being taught through Welsh in English medium schools (continually phasing in until English medium is removed). In areas where there's a large amount of welsh speakers then fair enough but until the numbers increase in places like cardiff and newport then its a waste of money. You could look at it a different way, that they have saved £2K[/p][/quote]I want to see the Welsh language flourish as it did before the English decided to eliminate it'. It wasn't the English who decided to eliminate it. Welsh people realised that without being able to speak English they had zero chance of ever developing economically or finding jobs. Even now, almost all Welsh speaking work is either tax payer funded, subsidised or forced to be paid for by private businesses. One of the highest paid people in Wales is the Welsh Language minister herself on £104K a year of other people's money.[/p][/quote]If you really think that you're an idiot, uneducated and know nothing of Welsh history. The then English government decided to have one single language thought the realms. The did this by opening state schools and forced children to speak one language, English. Any child speaking Welsh was punished. Its the reason why Cornish is extinct, why Irish & Scottish Gaelic is on the almost gone. English has to be taught in schools, Welsh medium or bilingual schools, you don't have a choice whether or not you want to speak the language. Well I believe all schools in Cymru should be welsh medium, so does that mean I shouldn't have to pay for the children in English medium education? The local councils now have to, not just cater to demand, but promote growth; the cheapest way to do this would be to increase the welsh spoken in English medium schools until they are either bilingual (50/50) or welsh medium (70/30). Besides Welsh is easier than English to learn and the children who's first language is Welsh are able to learn English a lot easier as Welsh is heavy reliant on phonics. Those are the conclusion of a cambridge study (http://journals.cam bridge.org/action/di splayAbstract;jsessi onid=2B5B6440A048B5C C2285F6EB7A1F73A0.jo urnals?fromPage=onli ne&aid=110463) mills191184
  • Score: -9

1:08pm Tue 28 Jan 14

mills191184 says...

Has the council approached Welsh speakers or welsh societies to see if they would translate the website for free...I'm guessing not. I'm sure they would be plenty of people willing to volunteer as they would be the using it.

Could be cheaper way to go
Has the council approached Welsh speakers or welsh societies to see if they would translate the website for free...I'm guessing not. I'm sure they would be plenty of people willing to volunteer as they would be the using it. Could be cheaper way to go mills191184
  • Score: 2

1:12pm Tue 28 Jan 14

Walter Devereux says...

Statistics are great aren't they? According to your figures, 18,308 people (12%) "can use it". In reality this number is an aggregate of:

* Understands spoken Welsh (no other skills)
* Speaks but does not read or write Welsh
* Speaks and reads but does not write Welsh
* Speaks, reads and writes Welsh
* Other combination of skills; e.g. Can read but not speak.

It must be borne in mind that the "Speaks, reads and writes Welsh" doesn't indicate the level of fluency. It also includes those under 18 years of age for whom the census was filled in by their parents. The statistics for actual use paint a completely different picture.
Statistics are great aren't they? According to your figures, 18,308 people (12%) "can use it". In reality this number is an aggregate of: * Understands spoken Welsh (no other skills) * Speaks but does not read or write Welsh * Speaks and reads but does not write Welsh * Speaks, reads and writes Welsh * Other combination of skills; e.g. Can read but not speak. It must be borne in mind that the "Speaks, reads and writes Welsh" doesn't indicate the level of fluency. It also includes those under 18 years of age for whom the census was filled in by their parents. The statistics for actual use paint a completely different picture. Walter Devereux
  • Score: 14

1:35pm Tue 28 Jan 14

Cymreigiwr says...

Walter Devereux wrote:
WELSH BUDDAH wrote:
Stevenboy wrote:
WELSH BUDDAH wrote:
632a6e7c@opayq.com wrote:
Loving the comments saying "charge the Welsh speakers more!". Should we also be charging extra council tax to disabled people for wheelchair access because "I'm not disabled, why should I pay for it?"? Selfish attitude.
Welcome to society. If you don't like the way it works (and I don't, personally) then do what you can to get anarchy instead of democracy, because that's what you're talking about when each is responsible for their own.
I don't get sick nor use the NHS, but I still have to pay NI contributions.
No, I'm not a Welsh speaker and yes, I'm from the Newport area. I'd be happy to pay to have our language in use in the area. It's already to anglicised.
Nicely put.....100% right.
Except that Welsh speakers also speak English so have a choice. Disabled people do not. You'll be telling us next that we should let Welsh speakers have blue badges so they can park on double yellow lines. Hardly the most analytical post then is it?
Yes I agree we all have rights and I know we all have a choice I agree it is a lot of money but we live in Wales. Anti Welsh on here does not help anybody and the language should be spoken by us if we please. There are certain things I don't agree with 1 letters should be printed in either Welsh or English and the people of Wales given the choice 2 the road signs should be in Welsh the same as any other country 3 if the local councils had of done this as they should of they would not be wasting the people of Newports money now. This is Wales and the South Wales Argus instigates these arguments as I would of thought they are anti Welsh.
How can you type "the road signs should be in Welsh the same as any other country" with a straight face? Any argument you may have disappears completely when such nonsense is written. This debate is rooted in what actually happens in the real world, not some Cymrist's fantasy land. It is this kind of risible nonsense that people are against. Incidentally, you seem to have such a poor grasp of the English language I'm not sure you should be lecturing anybody on the subject.
We're not obsessed and all have other things to worry about, but yes it is important for the council to support 1 in 7 of their citizens and comply with an obligation that's been clear for over 20 years, now legally strengthened. Despite repeated promises to do so, the Council has so badly failed to champion these local people that some of you apparently don't accept our rights, or even that we exist. So yes, it's important to us, and yes we're happy the council is finally waking to 'arogl y coffi' and fixing it's website - if they'd done the job properly years ago as they should've it wouldn't need this money now, would it?

You know someone's lost it when they descend to absurd abuse:
briesmith: a largely made-up language from the age of the Hobbits
[quote][p][bold]Walter Devereux[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]WELSH BUDDAH[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stevenboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]WELSH BUDDAH[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]632a6e7c@opayq.com[/bold] wrote: Loving the comments saying "charge the Welsh speakers more!". Should we also be charging extra council tax to disabled people for wheelchair access because "I'm not disabled, why should I pay for it?"? Selfish attitude. Welcome to society. If you don't like the way it works (and I don't, personally) then do what you can to get anarchy instead of democracy, because that's what you're talking about when each is responsible for their own. I don't get sick nor use the NHS, but I still have to pay NI contributions. No, I'm not a Welsh speaker and yes, I'm from the Newport area. I'd be happy to pay to have our language in use in the area. It's already to anglicised.[/p][/quote]Nicely put.....100% right.[/p][/quote]Except that Welsh speakers also speak English so have a choice. Disabled people do not. You'll be telling us next that we should let Welsh speakers have blue badges so they can park on double yellow lines. Hardly the most analytical post then is it?[/p][/quote]Yes I agree we all have rights and I know we all have a choice I agree it is a lot of money but we live in Wales. Anti Welsh on here does not help anybody and the language should be spoken by us if we please. There are certain things I don't agree with 1 letters should be printed in either Welsh or English and the people of Wales given the choice 2 the road signs should be in Welsh the same as any other country 3 if the local councils had of done this as they should of they would not be wasting the people of Newports money now. This is Wales and the South Wales Argus instigates these arguments as I would of thought they are anti Welsh.[/p][/quote]How can you type "the road signs should be in Welsh the same as any other country" with a straight face? Any argument you may have disappears completely when such nonsense is written. This debate is rooted in what actually happens in the real world, not some Cymrist's fantasy land. It is this kind of risible nonsense that people are against. Incidentally, you seem to have such a poor grasp of the English language I'm not sure you should be lecturing anybody on the subject.[/p][/quote]We're not obsessed and all have other things to worry about, but yes it is important for the council to support 1 in 7 of their citizens and comply with an obligation that's been clear for over 20 years, now legally strengthened. Despite repeated promises to do so, the Council has so badly failed to champion these local people that some of you apparently don't accept our rights, or even that we exist. So yes, it's important to us, and yes we're happy the council is finally waking to 'arogl y coffi' and fixing it's website - if they'd done the job properly years ago as they should've it wouldn't need this money now, would it? You know someone's lost it when they descend to absurd abuse: [quote][p][bold]briesmith[/bold]: a largely made-up language from the age of the Hobbits[/p][/quote] Cymreigiwr
  • Score: -12

1:44pm Tue 28 Jan 14

Cymreigiwr says...

We're not obsessed and all have other things to worry about, but yes it is important for the council to support 1 in 7 of their citizens and comply with an obligation that's been clear for over 20 years, now legally strengthened. Despite repeated promises to do so, the Council has so badly failed to champion this significant part of the local population that some of you not only don't accept our rights, but apparently don't even accept that we exist. So yes, it's important to us, and yes we're happy the council is finally waking to 'arogl y coffi' and fixing it's website - if they'd done the job properly years ago as they should've it wouldn't need this money now, would it?

You know someone's lost it when they descend to absurd abuse:
briesmith: a largely made-up language from the age of the Hobbits

I also wish the Argus would upgrade their comments system to enable editing/selective quoting - few other newspapers have one that's quite so rubbish...
We're not obsessed and all have other things to worry about, but yes it is important for the council to support 1 in 7 of their citizens and comply with an obligation that's been clear for over 20 years, now legally strengthened. Despite repeated promises to do so, the Council has so badly failed to champion this significant part of the local population that some of you not only don't accept our rights, but apparently don't even accept that we exist. So yes, it's important to us, and yes we're happy the council is finally waking to 'arogl y coffi' and fixing it's website - if they'd done the job properly years ago as they should've it wouldn't need this money now, would it? You know someone's lost it when they descend to absurd abuse: [quote][p][bold]briesmith[/bold]: a largely made-up language from the age of the Hobbits[/p][/quote] I also wish the Argus would upgrade their comments system to enable editing/selective quoting - few other newspapers have one that's quite so rubbish... Cymreigiwr
  • Score: -14

2:43pm Tue 28 Jan 14

Llanmartinangel says...

Cymreigiwr wrote:
We're not obsessed and all have other things to worry about, but yes it is important for the council to support 1 in 7 of their citizens and comply with an obligation that's been clear for over 20 years, now legally strengthened. Despite repeated promises to do so, the Council has so badly failed to champion this significant part of the local population that some of you not only don't accept our rights, but apparently don't even accept that we exist. So yes, it's important to us, and yes we're happy the council is finally waking to 'arogl y coffi' and fixing it's website - if they'd done the job properly years ago as they should've it wouldn't need this money now, would it?

You know someone's lost it when they descend to absurd abuse:
briesmith: a largely made-up language from the age of the Hobbits

I also wish the Argus would upgrade their comments system to enable editing/selective quoting - few other newspapers have one that's quite so rubbish...
Christie Davies argues that as the Welsh language will and must die out, encouraging people to learn it is a pointless exercise

The study of Welsh is compulsory in all schools in Wales. In Gwynedd all teaching is exclusively through the medium of Welsh. Yet, in my opinion, learning Welsh is of no use to anyone, since even in Wales itself the language is spoken by less than a fifth of the population and the vast majority of Welsh speakers are bilingual, often with English as their stronger language.

In the past, when Welsh was stronger, it acted as a fetter on the achievements of the Welsh people. In Cornwall, where the people were liberated from the Cornish version of Welsh in the 18th century and entered fully into the English-speaking world of science and commerce, Davy discovered sodium, Trevithick invented the steam engine and Cousin Jack went on to dominate hard-rock mining throughout the world. All that could have been ours but for the bindweed of the Welsh language. There are no jobs for which a knowledge of Welsh is necessary.

It is not surprising that supporters of the Welsh language say that their aim is some kind of blurred bilingualism rather than monoglot Welshness. English speakers in Wales, as in England, would benefit more from a thorough knowledge of some other world language such as German and Spanish.

Whereas there is a strong case for ensuring that all school children in the United Kingdom should acquire a thorough mastery of all aspects of the English language, no such argument can be applied to the teaching and learning of Welsh. Rather, two libertarian principles should prevail throughout the Principality. First, all pupils should have an inalienable right to be educated through the medium of English. Second, every pupil should have the right not to study Welsh and to have access to a choice of modern languages in school.

While the Welsh language will, should and must die out, it does not follow that the study of dead Welsh should be abandoned. On the contrary the Welsh of the past should be made available alongside Latin and Greek for the more gifted pupils. Welsh is the nearest thing we have to the language of Caradog and Boudica, the ancestral language of everyone throughout England, Wales, Scotland and Ulster, with the exception of the alien Gaelic-speaking peoples of the outer fringes. Within Wales itself a new modular course in postmodernist Welshness could be introduced into all schools on a purely optional basis. Pupils would shop around for those bits and pieces of Welsh identity reflecting their own particular needs. Those for whom the teaching of things Welsh is merely disguised separatism and treason may well object that such an approach lacks a coherent metanarrative. Yet we teach religion in schools in exactly this fashion. The traditional Welsh way of life flourishes today only in rural Country Antrim. Shoring up a dying language will not bring back the moral culture for which it was once a vehicle.

Christie Davies is professor of sociology at the University of Reading.
[quote][p][bold]Cymreigiwr[/bold] wrote: We're not obsessed and all have other things to worry about, but yes it is important for the council to support 1 in 7 of their citizens and comply with an obligation that's been clear for over 20 years, now legally strengthened. Despite repeated promises to do so, the Council has so badly failed to champion this significant part of the local population that some of you not only don't accept our rights, but apparently don't even accept that we exist. So yes, it's important to us, and yes we're happy the council is finally waking to 'arogl y coffi' and fixing it's website - if they'd done the job properly years ago as they should've it wouldn't need this money now, would it? You know someone's lost it when they descend to absurd abuse: [quote][p][bold]briesmith[/bold]: a largely made-up language from the age of the Hobbits[/p][/quote] I also wish the Argus would upgrade their comments system to enable editing/selective quoting - few other newspapers have one that's quite so rubbish...[/p][/quote]Christie Davies argues that as the Welsh language will and must die out, encouraging people to learn it is a pointless exercise The study of Welsh is compulsory in all schools in Wales. In Gwynedd all teaching is exclusively through the medium of Welsh. Yet, in my opinion, learning Welsh is of no use to anyone, since even in Wales itself the language is spoken by less than a fifth of the population and the vast majority of Welsh speakers are bilingual, often with English as their stronger language. In the past, when Welsh was stronger, it acted as a fetter on the achievements of the Welsh people. In Cornwall, where the people were liberated from the Cornish version of Welsh in the 18th century and entered fully into the English-speaking world of science and commerce, Davy discovered sodium, Trevithick invented the steam engine and Cousin Jack went on to dominate hard-rock mining throughout the world. All that could have been ours but for the bindweed of the Welsh language. There are no jobs for which a knowledge of Welsh is necessary. It is not surprising that supporters of the Welsh language say that their aim is some kind of blurred bilingualism rather than monoglot Welshness. English speakers in Wales, as in England, would benefit more from a thorough knowledge of some other world language such as German and Spanish. Whereas there is a strong case for ensuring that all school children in the United Kingdom should acquire a thorough mastery of all aspects of the English language, no such argument can be applied to the teaching and learning of Welsh. Rather, two libertarian principles should prevail throughout the Principality. First, all pupils should have an inalienable right to be educated through the medium of English. Second, every pupil should have the right not to study Welsh and to have access to a choice of modern languages in school. While the Welsh language will, should and must die out, it does not follow that the study of dead Welsh should be abandoned. On the contrary the Welsh of the past should be made available alongside Latin and Greek for the more gifted pupils. Welsh is the nearest thing we have to the language of Caradog and Boudica, the ancestral language of everyone throughout England, Wales, Scotland and Ulster, with the exception of the alien Gaelic-speaking peoples of the outer fringes. Within Wales itself a new modular course in postmodernist Welshness could be introduced into all schools on a purely optional basis. Pupils would shop around for those bits and pieces of Welsh identity reflecting their own particular needs. Those for whom the teaching of things Welsh is merely disguised separatism and treason may well object that such an approach lacks a coherent metanarrative. Yet we teach religion in schools in exactly this fashion. The traditional Welsh way of life flourishes today only in rural Country Antrim. Shoring up a dying language will not bring back the moral culture for which it was once a vehicle. Christie Davies is professor of sociology at the University of Reading. Llanmartinangel
  • Score: 10

2:51pm Tue 28 Jan 14

briesmith says...

@ Llanmartinangel

"Absurd abuse"?

How many words in Welsh are like "coffi", simply bastardised versions of English with some kind of faux spelling to make them appear "Welsh" because Welsh is a dead language and has no vocabulary suited to 21st century living. I'd say most of them. (Is the Welsh for television "telli"?)
The only absurd thing here is the refusal to recognise how ridiculous and mickey mouse sounding Welsh becomes when it has to resort to made-up words like coffi.
Simply makes it and its speakers look silly. But then we knew that anyway.
@ Llanmartinangel "Absurd abuse"? How many words in Welsh are like "coffi", simply bastardised versions of English with some kind of faux spelling to make them appear "Welsh" because Welsh is a dead language and has no vocabulary suited to 21st century living. I'd say most of them. (Is the Welsh for television "telli"?) The only absurd thing here is the refusal to recognise how ridiculous and mickey mouse sounding Welsh becomes when it has to resort to made-up words like coffi. Simply makes it and its speakers look silly. But then we knew that anyway. briesmith
  • Score: 10

2:56pm Tue 28 Jan 14

Llanmartinangel says...

briesmith wrote:
@ Llanmartinangel

"Absurd abuse"?

How many words in Welsh are like "coffi", simply bastardised versions of English with some kind of faux spelling to make them appear "Welsh" because Welsh is a dead language and has no vocabulary suited to 21st century living. I'd say most of them. (Is the Welsh for television "telli"?)
The only absurd thing here is the refusal to recognise how ridiculous and mickey mouse sounding Welsh becomes when it has to resort to made-up words like coffi.
Simply makes it and its speakers look silly. But then we knew that anyway.
Agree. And the Renaming of Beaumauris Castle to a made up Welsh word. Beaumauris IS the historical name from Saxon times. So much for this 'history' they keep obsessing about. A lot of it is invented.
[quote][p][bold]briesmith[/bold] wrote: @ Llanmartinangel "Absurd abuse"? How many words in Welsh are like "coffi", simply bastardised versions of English with some kind of faux spelling to make them appear "Welsh" because Welsh is a dead language and has no vocabulary suited to 21st century living. I'd say most of them. (Is the Welsh for television "telli"?) The only absurd thing here is the refusal to recognise how ridiculous and mickey mouse sounding Welsh becomes when it has to resort to made-up words like coffi. Simply makes it and its speakers look silly. But then we knew that anyway.[/p][/quote]Agree. And the Renaming of Beaumauris Castle to a made up Welsh word. Beaumauris IS the historical name from Saxon times. So much for this 'history' they keep obsessing about. A lot of it is invented. Llanmartinangel
  • Score: 16

2:58pm Tue 28 Jan 14

Walter Devereux says...

It was "Cymreigiwr" that called it "Absurd abuse", not Llanmartinangel who actually agrees with you.
It was "Cymreigiwr" that called it "Absurd abuse", not Llanmartinangel who actually agrees with you. Walter Devereux
  • Score: 14

3:01pm Tue 28 Jan 14

briesmith says...

As are the statistics.

The increasing use of Welsh speaking ability to close out public sector jobs to non-speakers is worrying. And as for Gwynedd or however you spell it teaching everything in Welsh, if I were a parent I'd be equally worried about that.
Preparing children to live in a world of dungeons and dragons designed by Tolkien is pretty ridiculous; and cruel in so far as it must blight their life chances.

I think Christine Davies has got it just about right.
As are the statistics. The increasing use of Welsh speaking ability to close out public sector jobs to non-speakers is worrying. And as for Gwynedd or however you spell it teaching everything in Welsh, if I were a parent I'd be equally worried about that. Preparing children to live in a world of dungeons and dragons designed by Tolkien is pretty ridiculous; and cruel in so far as it must blight their life chances. I think Christine Davies has got it just about right. briesmith
  • Score: 14

3:03pm Tue 28 Jan 14

briesmith says...

And apologies to Llanmartinangel.
And apologies to Llanmartinangel. briesmith
  • Score: 13

3:36pm Tue 28 Jan 14

Cymreigiwr says...

As someone said before, we realise YOU don't get it, but it's isn't about you! Sadly there will always be haters - it's not surprising that some of those who don't know the language won't value it (including your the noted rightwinger from an English university you cherrypicked), but none of this has any bearing our rights, does it? And quite right that Welsh is a criteria for some jobs in Wales where relevant - it certainly isn't across the board - that's just more anti-welsh disinformation. If you're not interested then why not just let us get on with it, because we're going to anyway?

Walter DevereuxStatistics are great...

I agree Walter, and thanks for corroborating them. As a result of the sort of views seen on this very page, Welsh speakers do tend to keep themselves to themselves, but as the stats show, we persist quietly despite this, and the future looks brighter, nationally as well as locally. Nearly 2 in 5 local kids gain access to Welsh nowadays, which is great news. I, and very many relatives, contacts and friends use our Welsh all the time, and enjoy the Welsh media, and welcome the increasing opportunities to do so. So you rage on with your unpleasant views, and we'll carry on speaking Welsh - yma o hyd.
As someone said before, we realise YOU don't get it, but it's isn't about you! Sadly there will always be haters - it's not surprising that some of those who don't know the language won't value it (including your the noted rightwinger from an English university you cherrypicked), but none of this has any bearing our rights, does it? And quite right that Welsh is a criteria for some jobs in Wales where relevant - it certainly isn't across the board - that's just more anti-welsh disinformation. If you're not interested then why not just let us get on with it, because we're going to anyway? [quote][p][bold]Walter Devereux[/bold]Statistics are great...[/p][/quote] I agree Walter, and thanks for corroborating them. As a result of the sort of views seen on this very page, Welsh speakers do tend to keep themselves to themselves, but as the stats show, we persist quietly despite this, and the future looks brighter, nationally as well as locally. Nearly 2 in 5 local kids gain access to Welsh nowadays, which is great news. I, and very many relatives, contacts and friends use our Welsh all the time, and enjoy the Welsh media, and welcome the increasing opportunities to do so. So you rage on with your unpleasant views, and we'll carry on speaking Welsh - yma o hyd. Cymreigiwr
  • Score: -16

4:22pm Tue 28 Jan 14

Llanmartinangel says...

Cymreigiwr wrote:
As someone said before, we realise YOU don't get it, but it's isn't about you! Sadly there will always be haters - it's not surprising that some of those who don't know the language won't value it (including your the noted rightwinger from an English university you cherrypicked), but none of this has any bearing our rights, does it? And quite right that Welsh is a criteria for some jobs in Wales where relevant - it certainly isn't across the board - that's just more anti-welsh disinformation. If you're not interested then why not just let us get on with it, because we're going to anyway?

Walter DevereuxStatistics are great...

I agree Walter, and thanks for corroborating them. As a result of the sort of views seen on this very page, Welsh speakers do tend to keep themselves to themselves, but as the stats show, we persist quietly despite this, and the future looks brighter, nationally as well as locally. Nearly 2 in 5 local kids gain access to Welsh nowadays, which is great news. I, and very many relatives, contacts and friends use our Welsh all the time, and enjoy the Welsh media, and welcome the increasing opportunities to do so. So you rage on with your unpleasant views, and we'll carry on speaking Welsh - yma o hyd.
Think you'll find Christie Davies is Welsh. He just happens to have moved to an English university.
[quote][p][bold]Cymreigiwr[/bold] wrote: As someone said before, we realise YOU don't get it, but it's isn't about you! Sadly there will always be haters - it's not surprising that some of those who don't know the language won't value it (including your the noted rightwinger from an English university you cherrypicked), but none of this has any bearing our rights, does it? And quite right that Welsh is a criteria for some jobs in Wales where relevant - it certainly isn't across the board - that's just more anti-welsh disinformation. If you're not interested then why not just let us get on with it, because we're going to anyway? [quote][p][bold]Walter Devereux[/bold]Statistics are great...[/p][/quote] I agree Walter, and thanks for corroborating them. As a result of the sort of views seen on this very page, Welsh speakers do tend to keep themselves to themselves, but as the stats show, we persist quietly despite this, and the future looks brighter, nationally as well as locally. Nearly 2 in 5 local kids gain access to Welsh nowadays, which is great news. I, and very many relatives, contacts and friends use our Welsh all the time, and enjoy the Welsh media, and welcome the increasing opportunities to do so. So you rage on with your unpleasant views, and we'll carry on speaking Welsh - yma o hyd.[/p][/quote]Think you'll find Christie Davies is Welsh. He just happens to have moved to an English university. Llanmartinangel
  • Score: 13

4:31pm Tue 28 Jan 14

Stevenboy says...

Llanmartinangel wrote:
Cymreigiwr wrote:
As someone said before, we realise YOU don't get it, but it's isn't about you! Sadly there will always be haters - it's not surprising that some of those who don't know the language won't value it (including your the noted rightwinger from an English university you cherrypicked), but none of this has any bearing our rights, does it? And quite right that Welsh is a criteria for some jobs in Wales where relevant - it certainly isn't across the board - that's just more anti-welsh disinformation. If you're not interested then why not just let us get on with it, because we're going to anyway?

Walter DevereuxStatistics are great...

I agree Walter, and thanks for corroborating them. As a result of the sort of views seen on this very page, Welsh speakers do tend to keep themselves to themselves, but as the stats show, we persist quietly despite this, and the future looks brighter, nationally as well as locally. Nearly 2 in 5 local kids gain access to Welsh nowadays, which is great news. I, and very many relatives, contacts and friends use our Welsh all the time, and enjoy the Welsh media, and welcome the increasing opportunities to do so. So you rage on with your unpleasant views, and we'll carry on speaking Welsh - yma o hyd.
Think you'll find Christie Davies is Welsh. He just happens to have moved to an English university.
Whether he's Welsh or not you can't argue with his educational credentials. Interesting isn't it that those of us who question the efficacy or morality of spending on Welsh are referred to by the vociferous language minority as thick but when someone with a huge education weighs in they decry him as 'English'. What is inarguable is that being made to have my kids taught Welsh when they have neither need nor historical connection with it is insane. That goes for the vast majority of people in East Wales also. It's that kind of dogmatic parochial thinking that causes the English speakers here to rebel. If you can't get that then it's because you don't want to. The vast majority of Welsh 'culture' is invented and is an industry being fed by politicians because it's in their interests.
[quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Cymreigiwr[/bold] wrote: As someone said before, we realise YOU don't get it, but it's isn't about you! Sadly there will always be haters - it's not surprising that some of those who don't know the language won't value it (including your the noted rightwinger from an English university you cherrypicked), but none of this has any bearing our rights, does it? And quite right that Welsh is a criteria for some jobs in Wales where relevant - it certainly isn't across the board - that's just more anti-welsh disinformation. If you're not interested then why not just let us get on with it, because we're going to anyway? [quote][p][bold]Walter Devereux[/bold]Statistics are great...[/p][/quote] I agree Walter, and thanks for corroborating them. As a result of the sort of views seen on this very page, Welsh speakers do tend to keep themselves to themselves, but as the stats show, we persist quietly despite this, and the future looks brighter, nationally as well as locally. Nearly 2 in 5 local kids gain access to Welsh nowadays, which is great news. I, and very many relatives, contacts and friends use our Welsh all the time, and enjoy the Welsh media, and welcome the increasing opportunities to do so. So you rage on with your unpleasant views, and we'll carry on speaking Welsh - yma o hyd.[/p][/quote]Think you'll find Christie Davies is Welsh. He just happens to have moved to an English university.[/p][/quote]Whether he's Welsh or not you can't argue with his educational credentials. Interesting isn't it that those of us who question the efficacy or morality of spending on Welsh are referred to by the vociferous language minority as thick but when someone with a huge education weighs in they decry him as 'English'. What is inarguable is that being made to have my kids taught Welsh when they have neither need nor historical connection with it is insane. That goes for the vast majority of people in East Wales also. It's that kind of dogmatic parochial thinking that causes the English speakers here to rebel. If you can't get that then it's because you don't want to. The vast majority of Welsh 'culture' is invented and is an industry being fed by politicians because it's in their interests. Stevenboy
  • Score: 16

4:51pm Tue 28 Jan 14

Crossbenchtory says...

Stevenboy wrote:
Llanmartinangel wrote:
Cymreigiwr wrote:
As someone said before, we realise YOU don't get it, but it's isn't about you! Sadly there will always be haters - it's not surprising that some of those who don't know the language won't value it (including your the noted rightwinger from an English university you cherrypicked), but none of this has any bearing our rights, does it? And quite right that Welsh is a criteria for some jobs in Wales where relevant - it certainly isn't across the board - that's just more anti-welsh disinformation. If you're not interested then why not just let us get on with it, because we're going to anyway?

Walter DevereuxStatistics are great...

I agree Walter, and thanks for corroborating them. As a result of the sort of views seen on this very page, Welsh speakers do tend to keep themselves to themselves, but as the stats show, we persist quietly despite this, and the future looks brighter, nationally as well as locally. Nearly 2 in 5 local kids gain access to Welsh nowadays, which is great news. I, and very many relatives, contacts and friends use our Welsh all the time, and enjoy the Welsh media, and welcome the increasing opportunities to do so. So you rage on with your unpleasant views, and we'll carry on speaking Welsh - yma o hyd.
Think you'll find Christie Davies is Welsh. He just happens to have moved to an English university.
Whether he's Welsh or not you can't argue with his educational credentials. Interesting isn't it that those of us who question the efficacy or morality of spending on Welsh are referred to by the vociferous language minority as thick but when someone with a huge education weighs in they decry him as 'English'. What is inarguable is that being made to have my kids taught Welsh when they have neither need nor historical connection with it is insane. That goes for the vast majority of people in East Wales also. It's that kind of dogmatic parochial thinking that causes the English speakers here to rebel. If you can't get that then it's because you don't want to. The vast majority of Welsh 'culture' is invented and is an industry being fed by politicians because it's in their interests.
Your reference to the majority of Welsh culture is quite correct. Evidence of this can be seen with the comical goings on at the national eisteddfod each year. The vast majority of these "historical" Welsh ceremonies were in fact made up by an 18th century laudanum addict whilst high as a kite on this particular product of the opium poppy.
Given this it would appear that so called Welsh culture is, in fact, the fantasy of a smack head. Whilst this may go some way towards explaining plaid Cymru it is certainly not a sound basis for a culture.
[quote][p][bold]Stevenboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Cymreigiwr[/bold] wrote: As someone said before, we realise YOU don't get it, but it's isn't about you! Sadly there will always be haters - it's not surprising that some of those who don't know the language won't value it (including your the noted rightwinger from an English university you cherrypicked), but none of this has any bearing our rights, does it? And quite right that Welsh is a criteria for some jobs in Wales where relevant - it certainly isn't across the board - that's just more anti-welsh disinformation. If you're not interested then why not just let us get on with it, because we're going to anyway? [quote][p][bold]Walter Devereux[/bold]Statistics are great...[/p][/quote] I agree Walter, and thanks for corroborating them. As a result of the sort of views seen on this very page, Welsh speakers do tend to keep themselves to themselves, but as the stats show, we persist quietly despite this, and the future looks brighter, nationally as well as locally. Nearly 2 in 5 local kids gain access to Welsh nowadays, which is great news. I, and very many relatives, contacts and friends use our Welsh all the time, and enjoy the Welsh media, and welcome the increasing opportunities to do so. So you rage on with your unpleasant views, and we'll carry on speaking Welsh - yma o hyd.[/p][/quote]Think you'll find Christie Davies is Welsh. He just happens to have moved to an English university.[/p][/quote]Whether he's Welsh or not you can't argue with his educational credentials. Interesting isn't it that those of us who question the efficacy or morality of spending on Welsh are referred to by the vociferous language minority as thick but when someone with a huge education weighs in they decry him as 'English'. What is inarguable is that being made to have my kids taught Welsh when they have neither need nor historical connection with it is insane. That goes for the vast majority of people in East Wales also. It's that kind of dogmatic parochial thinking that causes the English speakers here to rebel. If you can't get that then it's because you don't want to. The vast majority of Welsh 'culture' is invented and is an industry being fed by politicians because it's in their interests.[/p][/quote]Your reference to the majority of Welsh culture is quite correct. Evidence of this can be seen with the comical goings on at the national eisteddfod each year. The vast majority of these "historical" Welsh ceremonies were in fact made up by an 18th century laudanum addict whilst high as a kite on this particular product of the opium poppy. Given this it would appear that so called Welsh culture is, in fact, the fantasy of a smack head. Whilst this may go some way towards explaining plaid Cymru it is certainly not a sound basis for a culture. Crossbenchtory
  • Score: 17

4:56pm Tue 28 Jan 14

Llanmartinangel says...

Crossbenchtory wrote:
Stevenboy wrote:
Llanmartinangel wrote:
Cymreigiwr wrote:
As someone said before, we realise YOU don't get it, but it's isn't about you! Sadly there will always be haters - it's not surprising that some of those who don't know the language won't value it (including your the noted rightwinger from an English university you cherrypicked), but none of this has any bearing our rights, does it? And quite right that Welsh is a criteria for some jobs in Wales where relevant - it certainly isn't across the board - that's just more anti-welsh disinformation. If you're not interested then why not just let us get on with it, because we're going to anyway?

Walter DevereuxStatistics are great...

I agree Walter, and thanks for corroborating them. As a result of the sort of views seen on this very page, Welsh speakers do tend to keep themselves to themselves, but as the stats show, we persist quietly despite this, and the future looks brighter, nationally as well as locally. Nearly 2 in 5 local kids gain access to Welsh nowadays, which is great news. I, and very many relatives, contacts and friends use our Welsh all the time, and enjoy the Welsh media, and welcome the increasing opportunities to do so. So you rage on with your unpleasant views, and we'll carry on speaking Welsh - yma o hyd.
Think you'll find Christie Davies is Welsh. He just happens to have moved to an English university.
Whether he's Welsh or not you can't argue with his educational credentials. Interesting isn't it that those of us who question the efficacy or morality of spending on Welsh are referred to by the vociferous language minority as thick but when someone with a huge education weighs in they decry him as 'English'. What is inarguable is that being made to have my kids taught Welsh when they have neither need nor historical connection with it is insane. That goes for the vast majority of people in East Wales also. It's that kind of dogmatic parochial thinking that causes the English speakers here to rebel. If you can't get that then it's because you don't want to. The vast majority of Welsh 'culture' is invented and is an industry being fed by politicians because it's in their interests.
Your reference to the majority of Welsh culture is quite correct. Evidence of this can be seen with the comical goings on at the national eisteddfod each year. The vast majority of these "historical" Welsh ceremonies were in fact made up by an 18th century laudanum addict whilst high as a kite on this particular product of the opium poppy.
Given this it would appear that so called Welsh culture is, in fact, the fantasy of a smack head. Whilst this may go some way towards explaining plaid Cymru it is certainly not a sound basis for a culture.
You mean people here didn't wander around in silk bed-linen and laurel wreaths reciting poetry and there never were any women traipsing around Pill in stove-pipe hats and car blankets? Blimey, you'll be telling us there's no such thing as the Easter bunny next.
[quote][p][bold]Crossbenchtory[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stevenboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Cymreigiwr[/bold] wrote: As someone said before, we realise YOU don't get it, but it's isn't about you! Sadly there will always be haters - it's not surprising that some of those who don't know the language won't value it (including your the noted rightwinger from an English university you cherrypicked), but none of this has any bearing our rights, does it? And quite right that Welsh is a criteria for some jobs in Wales where relevant - it certainly isn't across the board - that's just more anti-welsh disinformation. If you're not interested then why not just let us get on with it, because we're going to anyway? [quote][p][bold]Walter Devereux[/bold]Statistics are great...[/p][/quote] I agree Walter, and thanks for corroborating them. As a result of the sort of views seen on this very page, Welsh speakers do tend to keep themselves to themselves, but as the stats show, we persist quietly despite this, and the future looks brighter, nationally as well as locally. Nearly 2 in 5 local kids gain access to Welsh nowadays, which is great news. I, and very many relatives, contacts and friends use our Welsh all the time, and enjoy the Welsh media, and welcome the increasing opportunities to do so. So you rage on with your unpleasant views, and we'll carry on speaking Welsh - yma o hyd.[/p][/quote]Think you'll find Christie Davies is Welsh. He just happens to have moved to an English university.[/p][/quote]Whether he's Welsh or not you can't argue with his educational credentials. Interesting isn't it that those of us who question the efficacy or morality of spending on Welsh are referred to by the vociferous language minority as thick but when someone with a huge education weighs in they decry him as 'English'. What is inarguable is that being made to have my kids taught Welsh when they have neither need nor historical connection with it is insane. That goes for the vast majority of people in East Wales also. It's that kind of dogmatic parochial thinking that causes the English speakers here to rebel. If you can't get that then it's because you don't want to. The vast majority of Welsh 'culture' is invented and is an industry being fed by politicians because it's in their interests.[/p][/quote]Your reference to the majority of Welsh culture is quite correct. Evidence of this can be seen with the comical goings on at the national eisteddfod each year. The vast majority of these "historical" Welsh ceremonies were in fact made up by an 18th century laudanum addict whilst high as a kite on this particular product of the opium poppy. Given this it would appear that so called Welsh culture is, in fact, the fantasy of a smack head. Whilst this may go some way towards explaining plaid Cymru it is certainly not a sound basis for a culture.[/p][/quote]You mean people here didn't wander around in silk bed-linen and laurel wreaths reciting poetry and there never were any women traipsing around Pill in stove-pipe hats and car blankets? Blimey, you'll be telling us there's no such thing as the Easter bunny next. Llanmartinangel
  • Score: 17

5:18pm Tue 28 Jan 14

briesmith says...

An insistence on a certain level of ability in English is allowed by law but I'm pretty sure rejecting a candidate because they don't speak Welsh is illegal.
Taking up valuable school learning time ramming a nonsensical "language" (where nearly all the words are funnily spelled English) down kids' throats is no more or less than child abuse.
The numbers of Welsh speakers in Wales quoted are total tosh and simply made up by putting the most optimistic, fanciful arithmetic to work on whatever set of numbers are useful.
Political opportunists meet zealots meet hippies; that's your Welsh collective boyo.
An insistence on a certain level of ability in English is allowed by law but I'm pretty sure rejecting a candidate because they don't speak Welsh is illegal. Taking up valuable school learning time ramming a nonsensical "language" (where nearly all the words are funnily spelled English) down kids' throats is no more or less than child abuse. The numbers of Welsh speakers in Wales quoted are total tosh and simply made up by putting the most optimistic, fanciful arithmetic to work on whatever set of numbers are useful. Political opportunists meet zealots meet hippies; that's your Welsh collective boyo. briesmith
  • Score: 18

6:00pm Tue 28 Jan 14

Llanmartinangel says...

briesmith wrote:
An insistence on a certain level of ability in English is allowed by law but I'm pretty sure rejecting a candidate because they don't speak Welsh is illegal.
Taking up valuable school learning time ramming a nonsensical "language" (where nearly all the words are funnily spelled English) down kids' throats is no more or less than child abuse.
The numbers of Welsh speakers in Wales quoted are total tosh and simply made up by putting the most optimistic, fanciful arithmetic to work on whatever set of numbers are useful.
Political opportunists meet zealots meet hippies; that's your Welsh collective boyo.
'The numbers of Welsh speakers in Wales quoted are total tosh and simply made up by putting the most optimistic, fanciful arithmetic to work on whatever set of numbers are useful'.

True. See earlier posts re figures from National Savings and Barclays. People answering census questions exaggerate their capability and lie because no-one checks do they.
[quote][p][bold]briesmith[/bold] wrote: An insistence on a certain level of ability in English is allowed by law but I'm pretty sure rejecting a candidate because they don't speak Welsh is illegal. Taking up valuable school learning time ramming a nonsensical "language" (where nearly all the words are funnily spelled English) down kids' throats is no more or less than child abuse. The numbers of Welsh speakers in Wales quoted are total tosh and simply made up by putting the most optimistic, fanciful arithmetic to work on whatever set of numbers are useful. Political opportunists meet zealots meet hippies; that's your Welsh collective boyo.[/p][/quote]'The numbers of Welsh speakers in Wales quoted are total tosh and simply made up by putting the most optimistic, fanciful arithmetic to work on whatever set of numbers are useful'. True. See earlier posts re figures from National Savings and Barclays. People answering census questions exaggerate their capability and lie because no-one checks do they. Llanmartinangel
  • Score: 19

6:07pm Tue 28 Jan 14

Cymreigiwr says...

Do you denigrate everyone who's different to you, or is it just us Welsh speakers you abuse? You have no more right to impose a Welshless society on us as we have to impose an Englishless one on you.

I didn't decry Christie Davies as English - I'm simply pointing out that he's a known right-winger who's chosen to spend his entire 50 year career outside Wales, and his views on Welsh are purely his personal biased opinion, which he's entitled to, but is marginal at best. Neither did I say that you were thick - only ill-informed, unwilling to empathise with another viewpoint, and prejudiced against something you don't understand and have no experience of. To suggest Welsh, the oldest language in Europe has no historical culture or context truly is absurd.

As I said, ignore Welsh yourself if you want to, but very many others feel differently: I am often told by people without Welsh that they sorely regret being denied the opportunity to learn it as a child. Our language has a deserving place in the future of our nation, as it has in our long past, and most people support this. A large and growing number of Newport parents choose fully Welsh medium education, and are entitled to support, and most rational people support this too. So go on, troll away with your nasty taunts.
Do you denigrate everyone who's different to you, or is it just us Welsh speakers you abuse? You have no more right to impose a Welshless society on us as we have to impose an Englishless one on you. I didn't decry Christie Davies as English - I'm simply pointing out that he's a known right-winger who's chosen to spend his entire 50 year career outside Wales, and his views on Welsh are purely his personal biased opinion, which he's entitled to, but is marginal at best. Neither did I say that you were thick - only ill-informed, unwilling to empathise with another viewpoint, and prejudiced against something you don't understand and have no experience of. To suggest Welsh, the oldest language in Europe has no historical culture or context truly is absurd. As I said, ignore Welsh yourself if you want to, but very many others feel differently: I am often told by people without Welsh that they sorely regret being denied the opportunity to learn it as a child. Our language has a deserving place in the future of our nation, as it has in our long past, and most people support this. A large and growing number of Newport parents choose fully Welsh medium education, and are entitled to support, and most rational people support this too. So go on, troll away with your nasty taunts. Cymreigiwr
  • Score: -17

6:17pm Tue 28 Jan 14

scraptheWAG says...

Dimenw wrote:
Stevenboy wrote:
Dimenw wrote:
Oh, and Llanmartinangel, remind me again, how much is the Chief executive, or any of the higher ranking workers of the council earning? That's public money going to waste right there, but oh no, in your mind, that's ok, as long as it's not a Welsh speaker earning more money than you!
You only have to look around Wales to see the car-wreck that it is because of people addicted to spending public money in truck loads on knuckle-dragging medieval bull-manure and invented 'Welsh' culture instead of on things which would create real economic growth here. You have people going to food-banks here whilst six-figure execs obsess about place names and how to force the children of people who have no Welsh connection to take a bygone language as a compulsory subject in schools. Bonkers.
Sooo let me get this right... In your mind, people are going to food banks because a tiny number of people get just over £100k to work with the Welsh language? Thousands of people get loads more in public money than the Welsh language commissioner, and she has a hard job, because she has to put up with bigots like you who are above her.

http://www.youtube.c

om/watch?v=Ci40ae8Bl

cE#t=60
with views like these its no wonder wales is a basketcase and ended up as the poorest nation in europe
[quote][p][bold]Dimenw[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stevenboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dimenw[/bold] wrote: Oh, and Llanmartinangel, remind me again, how much is the Chief executive, or any of the higher ranking workers of the council earning? That's public money going to waste right there, but oh no, in your mind, that's ok, as long as it's not a Welsh speaker earning more money than you![/p][/quote]You only have to look around Wales to see the car-wreck that it is because of people addicted to spending public money in truck loads on knuckle-dragging medieval bull-manure and invented 'Welsh' culture instead of on things which would create real economic growth here. You have people going to food-banks here whilst six-figure execs obsess about place names and how to force the children of people who have no Welsh connection to take a bygone language as a compulsory subject in schools. Bonkers.[/p][/quote]Sooo let me get this right... In your mind, people are going to food banks because a tiny number of people get just over £100k to work with the Welsh language? Thousands of people get loads more in public money than the Welsh language commissioner, and she has a hard job, because she has to put up with bigots like you who are above her. http://www.youtube.c om/watch?v=Ci40ae8Bl cE#t=60[/p][/quote]with views like these its no wonder wales is a basketcase and ended up as the poorest nation in europe scraptheWAG
  • Score: 6

6:27pm Tue 28 Jan 14

Crossbenchtory says...

Cymreigiwr wrote:
Do you denigrate everyone who's different to you, or is it just us Welsh speakers you abuse? You have no more right to impose a Welshless society on us as we have to impose an Englishless one on you.

I didn't decry Christie Davies as English - I'm simply pointing out that he's a known right-winger who's chosen to spend his entire 50 year career outside Wales, and his views on Welsh are purely his personal biased opinion, which he's entitled to, but is marginal at best. Neither did I say that you were thick - only ill-informed, unwilling to empathise with another viewpoint, and prejudiced against something you don't understand and have no experience of. To suggest Welsh, the oldest language in Europe has no historical culture or context truly is absurd.

As I said, ignore Welsh yourself if you want to, but very many others feel differently: I am often told by people without Welsh that they sorely regret being denied the opportunity to learn it as a child. Our language has a deserving place in the future of our nation, as it has in our long past, and most people support this. A large and growing number of Newport parents choose fully Welsh medium education, and are entitled to support, and most rational people support this too. So go on, troll away with your nasty taunts.
I have no issue with people speaking Welsh, I have no issue with Welsh being taught in schools in Wales as a compulsory subject up to and including GCSE level.

What I take issue with is being excluded from most state sector jobs in Wales because I am a monoglot English speaker, being seen as a second class citizen by the holier than thou Welsh language brigade, our children being brainwashed with lies about English oppression by the left wing intelligencia and being told I am not a proper Welshman because I view it in the same way a Yorkshireman views being from Yorkshire. I am British and proud to be so, I just happen to be from a region of Great Britain called Wales.

I would also add that the more I see of the disaster fondly referred to as devolution, failing education, failing NHS, failing economy etc, the more I dispair for the future of my granddaughter's generation. She, thankfully, will be going to Public School where she will at least get a decent education which will enable her to get into a good university outside of Wales.
[quote][p][bold]Cymreigiwr[/bold] wrote: Do you denigrate everyone who's different to you, or is it just us Welsh speakers you abuse? You have no more right to impose a Welshless society on us as we have to impose an Englishless one on you. I didn't decry Christie Davies as English - I'm simply pointing out that he's a known right-winger who's chosen to spend his entire 50 year career outside Wales, and his views on Welsh are purely his personal biased opinion, which he's entitled to, but is marginal at best. Neither did I say that you were thick - only ill-informed, unwilling to empathise with another viewpoint, and prejudiced against something you don't understand and have no experience of. To suggest Welsh, the oldest language in Europe has no historical culture or context truly is absurd. As I said, ignore Welsh yourself if you want to, but very many others feel differently: I am often told by people without Welsh that they sorely regret being denied the opportunity to learn it as a child. Our language has a deserving place in the future of our nation, as it has in our long past, and most people support this. A large and growing number of Newport parents choose fully Welsh medium education, and are entitled to support, and most rational people support this too. So go on, troll away with your nasty taunts.[/p][/quote]I have no issue with people speaking Welsh, I have no issue with Welsh being taught in schools in Wales as a compulsory subject up to and including GCSE level. What I take issue with is being excluded from most state sector jobs in Wales because I am a monoglot English speaker, being seen as a second class citizen by the holier than thou Welsh language brigade, our children being brainwashed with lies about English oppression by the left wing intelligencia and being told I am not a proper Welshman because I view it in the same way a Yorkshireman views being from Yorkshire. I am British and proud to be so, I just happen to be from a region of Great Britain called Wales. I would also add that the more I see of the disaster fondly referred to as devolution, failing education, failing NHS, failing economy etc, the more I dispair for the future of my granddaughter's generation. She, thankfully, will be going to Public School where she will at least get a decent education which will enable her to get into a good university outside of Wales. Crossbenchtory
  • Score: 11

6:33pm Tue 28 Jan 14

Llanmartinangel says...

Cymreigiwr wrote:
Do you denigrate everyone who's different to you, or is it just us Welsh speakers you abuse? You have no more right to impose a Welshless society on us as we have to impose an Englishless one on you.

I didn't decry Christie Davies as English - I'm simply pointing out that he's a known right-winger who's chosen to spend his entire 50 year career outside Wales, and his views on Welsh are purely his personal biased opinion, which he's entitled to, but is marginal at best. Neither did I say that you were thick - only ill-informed, unwilling to empathise with another viewpoint, and prejudiced against something you don't understand and have no experience of. To suggest Welsh, the oldest language in Europe has no historical culture or context truly is absurd.

As I said, ignore Welsh yourself if you want to, but very many others feel differently: I am often told by people without Welsh that they sorely regret being denied the opportunity to learn it as a child. Our language has a deserving place in the future of our nation, as it has in our long past, and most people support this. A large and growing number of Newport parents choose fully Welsh medium education, and are entitled to support, and most rational people support this too. So go on, troll away with your nasty taunts.
It's not a 'nation'. That's a mother modern invention. And no-one is denying anyone's right to speak it. But forcing it on people who have no interest in it is wrong. As is spending money on things which don't stem it's decline out of some misplaced scattergun policy.
[quote][p][bold]Cymreigiwr[/bold] wrote: Do you denigrate everyone who's different to you, or is it just us Welsh speakers you abuse? You have no more right to impose a Welshless society on us as we have to impose an Englishless one on you. I didn't decry Christie Davies as English - I'm simply pointing out that he's a known right-winger who's chosen to spend his entire 50 year career outside Wales, and his views on Welsh are purely his personal biased opinion, which he's entitled to, but is marginal at best. Neither did I say that you were thick - only ill-informed, unwilling to empathise with another viewpoint, and prejudiced against something you don't understand and have no experience of. To suggest Welsh, the oldest language in Europe has no historical culture or context truly is absurd. As I said, ignore Welsh yourself if you want to, but very many others feel differently: I am often told by people without Welsh that they sorely regret being denied the opportunity to learn it as a child. Our language has a deserving place in the future of our nation, as it has in our long past, and most people support this. A large and growing number of Newport parents choose fully Welsh medium education, and are entitled to support, and most rational people support this too. So go on, troll away with your nasty taunts.[/p][/quote]It's not a 'nation'. That's a mother modern invention. And no-one is denying anyone's right to speak it. But forcing it on people who have no interest in it is wrong. As is spending money on things which don't stem it's decline out of some misplaced scattergun policy. Llanmartinangel
  • Score: 16

7:10pm Tue 28 Jan 14

scraptheWAG says...

Crossbenchtory wrote:
Cymreigiwr wrote:
Do you denigrate everyone who's different to you, or is it just us Welsh speakers you abuse? You have no more right to impose a Welshless society on us as we have to impose an Englishless one on you.

I didn't decry Christie Davies as English - I'm simply pointing out that he's a known right-winger who's chosen to spend his entire 50 year career outside Wales, and his views on Welsh are purely his personal biased opinion, which he's entitled to, but is marginal at best. Neither did I say that you were thick - only ill-informed, unwilling to empathise with another viewpoint, and prejudiced against something you don't understand and have no experience of. To suggest Welsh, the oldest language in Europe has no historical culture or context truly is absurd.

As I said, ignore Welsh yourself if you want to, but very many others feel differently: I am often told by people without Welsh that they sorely regret being denied the opportunity to learn it as a child. Our language has a deserving place in the future of our nation, as it has in our long past, and most people support this. A large and growing number of Newport parents choose fully Welsh medium education, and are entitled to support, and most rational people support this too. So go on, troll away with your nasty taunts.
I have no issue with people speaking Welsh, I have no issue with Welsh being taught in schools in Wales as a compulsory subject up to and including GCSE level.

What I take issue with is being excluded from most state sector jobs in Wales because I am a monoglot English speaker, being seen as a second class citizen by the holier than thou Welsh language brigade, our children being brainwashed with lies about English oppression by the left wing intelligencia and being told I am not a proper Welshman because I view it in the same way a Yorkshireman views being from Yorkshire. I am British and proud to be so, I just happen to be from a region of Great Britain called Wales.

I would also add that the more I see of the disaster fondly referred to as devolution, failing education, failing NHS, failing economy etc, the more I dispair for the future of my granddaughter's generation. She, thankfully, will be going to Public School where she will at least get a decent education which will enable her to get into a good university outside of Wales.
you ever voted for the WAG must be so proud
[quote][p][bold]Crossbenchtory[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Cymreigiwr[/bold] wrote: Do you denigrate everyone who's different to you, or is it just us Welsh speakers you abuse? You have no more right to impose a Welshless society on us as we have to impose an Englishless one on you. I didn't decry Christie Davies as English - I'm simply pointing out that he's a known right-winger who's chosen to spend his entire 50 year career outside Wales, and his views on Welsh are purely his personal biased opinion, which he's entitled to, but is marginal at best. Neither did I say that you were thick - only ill-informed, unwilling to empathise with another viewpoint, and prejudiced against something you don't understand and have no experience of. To suggest Welsh, the oldest language in Europe has no historical culture or context truly is absurd. As I said, ignore Welsh yourself if you want to, but very many others feel differently: I am often told by people without Welsh that they sorely regret being denied the opportunity to learn it as a child. Our language has a deserving place in the future of our nation, as it has in our long past, and most people support this. A large and growing number of Newport parents choose fully Welsh medium education, and are entitled to support, and most rational people support this too. So go on, troll away with your nasty taunts.[/p][/quote]I have no issue with people speaking Welsh, I have no issue with Welsh being taught in schools in Wales as a compulsory subject up to and including GCSE level. What I take issue with is being excluded from most state sector jobs in Wales because I am a monoglot English speaker, being seen as a second class citizen by the holier than thou Welsh language brigade, our children being brainwashed with lies about English oppression by the left wing intelligencia and being told I am not a proper Welshman because I view it in the same way a Yorkshireman views being from Yorkshire. I am British and proud to be so, I just happen to be from a region of Great Britain called Wales. I would also add that the more I see of the disaster fondly referred to as devolution, failing education, failing NHS, failing economy etc, the more I dispair for the future of my granddaughter's generation. She, thankfully, will be going to Public School where she will at least get a decent education which will enable her to get into a good university outside of Wales.[/p][/quote]you ever voted for the WAG must be so proud scraptheWAG
  • Score: 1

8:02pm Tue 28 Jan 14

Crossbenchtory says...

scraptheWAG wrote:
Crossbenchtory wrote:
Cymreigiwr wrote:
Do you denigrate everyone who's different to you, or is it just us Welsh speakers you abuse? You have no more right to impose a Welshless society on us as we have to impose an Englishless one on you.

I didn't decry Christie Davies as English - I'm simply pointing out that he's a known right-winger who's chosen to spend his entire 50 year career outside Wales, and his views on Welsh are purely his personal biased opinion, which he's entitled to, but is marginal at best. Neither did I say that you were thick - only ill-informed, unwilling to empathise with another viewpoint, and prejudiced against something you don't understand and have no experience of. To suggest Welsh, the oldest language in Europe has no historical culture or context truly is absurd.

As I said, ignore Welsh yourself if you want to, but very many others feel differently: I am often told by people without Welsh that they sorely regret being denied the opportunity to learn it as a child. Our language has a deserving place in the future of our nation, as it has in our long past, and most people support this. A large and growing number of Newport parents choose fully Welsh medium education, and are entitled to support, and most rational people support this too. So go on, troll away with your nasty taunts.
I have no issue with people speaking Welsh, I have no issue with Welsh being taught in schools in Wales as a compulsory subject up to and including GCSE level.

What I take issue with is being excluded from most state sector jobs in Wales because I am a monoglot English speaker, being seen as a second class citizen by the holier than thou Welsh language brigade, our children being brainwashed with lies about English oppression by the left wing intelligencia and being told I am not a proper Welshman because I view it in the same way a Yorkshireman views being from Yorkshire. I am British and proud to be so, I just happen to be from a region of Great Britain called Wales.

I would also add that the more I see of the disaster fondly referred to as devolution, failing education, failing NHS, failing economy etc, the more I dispair for the future of my granddaughter's generation. She, thankfully, will be going to Public School where she will at least get a decent education which will enable her to get into a good university outside of Wales.
you ever voted for the WAG must be so proud
Not that it has anything to do with the language but no, I've never voted for the WAG, I've voted in the Assembly elections when I've been in Wales but as I vote Conservative I can't say I've ever voted for a WAG.
[quote][p][bold]scraptheWAG[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Crossbenchtory[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Cymreigiwr[/bold] wrote: Do you denigrate everyone who's different to you, or is it just us Welsh speakers you abuse? You have no more right to impose a Welshless society on us as we have to impose an Englishless one on you. I didn't decry Christie Davies as English - I'm simply pointing out that he's a known right-winger who's chosen to spend his entire 50 year career outside Wales, and his views on Welsh are purely his personal biased opinion, which he's entitled to, but is marginal at best. Neither did I say that you were thick - only ill-informed, unwilling to empathise with another viewpoint, and prejudiced against something you don't understand and have no experience of. To suggest Welsh, the oldest language in Europe has no historical culture or context truly is absurd. As I said, ignore Welsh yourself if you want to, but very many others feel differently: I am often told by people without Welsh that they sorely regret being denied the opportunity to learn it as a child. Our language has a deserving place in the future of our nation, as it has in our long past, and most people support this. A large and growing number of Newport parents choose fully Welsh medium education, and are entitled to support, and most rational people support this too. So go on, troll away with your nasty taunts.[/p][/quote]I have no issue with people speaking Welsh, I have no issue with Welsh being taught in schools in Wales as a compulsory subject up to and including GCSE level. What I take issue with is being excluded from most state sector jobs in Wales because I am a monoglot English speaker, being seen as a second class citizen by the holier than thou Welsh language brigade, our children being brainwashed with lies about English oppression by the left wing intelligencia and being told I am not a proper Welshman because I view it in the same way a Yorkshireman views being from Yorkshire. I am British and proud to be so, I just happen to be from a region of Great Britain called Wales. I would also add that the more I see of the disaster fondly referred to as devolution, failing education, failing NHS, failing economy etc, the more I dispair for the future of my granddaughter's generation. She, thankfully, will be going to Public School where she will at least get a decent education which will enable her to get into a good university outside of Wales.[/p][/quote]you ever voted for the WAG must be so proud[/p][/quote]Not that it has anything to do with the language but no, I've never voted for the WAG, I've voted in the Assembly elections when I've been in Wales but as I vote Conservative I can't say I've ever voted for a WAG. Crossbenchtory
  • Score: 8

1:45pm Wed 29 Jan 14

Bobevans says...

One Welsh council had not had a single request for a Welsh document in 5 . Most had only one or two reguests and they were mainly from the WLB when it existed. BT are looking to drop WElsh as almost no one uses the service. It was costing over £1400 per person that used it


If they spend £300 and it will b far more than that what additional service do you want cut in Newport to pay for it
One Welsh council had not had a single request for a Welsh document in 5 . Most had only one or two reguests and they were mainly from the WLB when it existed. BT are looking to drop WElsh as almost no one uses the service. It was costing over £1400 per person that used it If they spend £300 and it will b far more than that what additional service do you want cut in Newport to pay for it Bobevans
  • Score: 2

3:38pm Wed 29 Jan 14

Cymreigiwr says...

Just because people aren't always willing to kick up a fuss or jump through hoops to get Welsh language services and literature, doesn't mean they don't want or won't use them. We Welsh are often faced with a second class or non-existent service but the fact that we end up accepting this doesn't mean we're happy or that it should be so, especially for public services we contribute to. I agree that Welsh services and materials should be better targeted. They need to be visibly available as a mainstream option, but Welsh speakers really do want them, and like any good service, they represent a massive potential win in customer loyalty and satisfaction. I use them whenever I can.

Nobody wants be awkward to the people who are customer facing - who wants to be campaigning or making a scene? Who has the time? Some are inhibited about asking for it for fear of risking of being singled out for the kind of prejudice apparent in these comments. None of this means there's isn't demand or interest.

I'm also pretty dubious of your claims, Bobevans, but we'd be interested if you could share references? It's not uncommon for management and marketing people to have poor awareness or misconceptions of Welsh issues, so passing it on for follow up might present an opportunity to improve the situation, to everyone's benefit. I've encountered similar unsubstantiated hearsay being used to bash Welsh that is not what it appears. Examples even exist where availability of or statistics on Welsh services have been deliberately influenced, in order to justify abolition via low usage figures.
Just because people aren't always willing to kick up a fuss or jump through hoops to get Welsh language services and literature, doesn't mean they don't want or won't use them. We Welsh are often faced with a second class or non-existent service but the fact that we end up accepting this doesn't mean we're happy or that it should be so, especially for public services we contribute to. I agree that Welsh services and materials should be better targeted. They need to be visibly available as a mainstream option, but Welsh speakers really do want them, and like any good service, they represent a massive potential win in customer loyalty and satisfaction. I use them whenever I can. Nobody wants be awkward to the people who are customer facing - who wants to be campaigning or making a scene? Who has the time? Some are inhibited about asking for it for fear of risking of being singled out for the kind of prejudice apparent in these comments. None of this means there's isn't demand or interest. I'm also pretty dubious of your claims, [bold]Bobevans[/bold], but we'd be interested if you could share references? It's not uncommon for management and marketing people to have poor awareness or misconceptions of Welsh issues, so passing it on for follow up might present an opportunity to improve the situation, to everyone's benefit. I've encountered similar unsubstantiated hearsay being used to bash Welsh that is not what it appears. Examples even exist where availability of or statistics on Welsh services have been deliberately influenced, in order to justify abolition via low usage figures. Cymreigiwr
  • Score: -6

4:14pm Wed 29 Jan 14

33daverave says...

It needs to be in Polish for most of Newport to read it.
It needs to be in Polish for most of Newport to read it. 33daverave
  • Score: 4

7:53pm Wed 29 Jan 14

scraptheWAG says...

Cymreigiwr wrote:
Just because people aren't always willing to kick up a fuss or jump through hoops to get Welsh language services and literature, doesn't mean they don't want or won't use them. We Welsh are often faced with a second class or non-existent service but the fact that we end up accepting this doesn't mean we're happy or that it should be so, especially for public services we contribute to. I agree that Welsh services and materials should be better targeted. They need to be visibly available as a mainstream option, but Welsh speakers really do want them, and like any good service, they represent a massive potential win in customer loyalty and satisfaction. I use them whenever I can.

Nobody wants be awkward to the people who are customer facing - who wants to be campaigning or making a scene? Who has the time? Some are inhibited about asking for it for fear of risking of being singled out for the kind of prejudice apparent in these comments. None of this means there's isn't demand or interest.

I'm also pretty dubious of your claims, Bobevans, but we'd be interested if you could share references? It's not uncommon for management and marketing people to have poor awareness or misconceptions of Welsh issues, so passing it on for follow up might present an opportunity to improve the situation, to everyone's benefit. I've encountered similar unsubstantiated hearsay being used to bash Welsh that is not what it appears. Examples even exist where availability of or statistics on Welsh services have been deliberately influenced, in order to justify abolition via low usage figures.
stupid post you speak english as well why do you now just volunteer your services to the council and you and others can offer your time for free for this little fun hobby language.
[quote][p][bold]Cymreigiwr[/bold] wrote: Just because people aren't always willing to kick up a fuss or jump through hoops to get Welsh language services and literature, doesn't mean they don't want or won't use them. We Welsh are often faced with a second class or non-existent service but the fact that we end up accepting this doesn't mean we're happy or that it should be so, especially for public services we contribute to. I agree that Welsh services and materials should be better targeted. They need to be visibly available as a mainstream option, but Welsh speakers really do want them, and like any good service, they represent a massive potential win in customer loyalty and satisfaction. I use them whenever I can. Nobody wants be awkward to the people who are customer facing - who wants to be campaigning or making a scene? Who has the time? Some are inhibited about asking for it for fear of risking of being singled out for the kind of prejudice apparent in these comments. None of this means there's isn't demand or interest. I'm also pretty dubious of your claims, [bold]Bobevans[/bold], but we'd be interested if you could share references? It's not uncommon for management and marketing people to have poor awareness or misconceptions of Welsh issues, so passing it on for follow up might present an opportunity to improve the situation, to everyone's benefit. I've encountered similar unsubstantiated hearsay being used to bash Welsh that is not what it appears. Examples even exist where availability of or statistics on Welsh services have been deliberately influenced, in order to justify abolition via low usage figures.[/p][/quote]stupid post you speak english as well why do you now just volunteer your services to the council and you and others can offer your time for free for this little fun hobby language. scraptheWAG
  • Score: 1

7:55pm Wed 29 Jan 14

scraptheWAG says...

Stevenboy wrote:
This story from the BBC regarding National Savings and just how 'widespread' (not) the language use is:
NS&I said that as of February 2012, there were 107 customers corresponding with it in Welsh.
That represented 0.007% of the 1,549,577 NS&I customers living in Wales, and only 0.06% of Welsh deposits. The cost was £900 per Welsh speaking customer.
Living language my back-side.
Full story here.http://www.bbc.

co.uk/news/uk-wales-

21993724
that is funney 900 pound per customer can you imagine how much it cost the tax payer
[quote][p][bold]Stevenboy[/bold] wrote: This story from the BBC regarding National Savings and just how 'widespread' (not) the language use is: NS&I said that as of February 2012, there were 107 customers corresponding with it in Welsh. That represented 0.007% of the 1,549,577 NS&I customers living in Wales, and only 0.06% of Welsh deposits. The cost was £900 per Welsh speaking customer. Living language my back-side. Full story here.http://www.bbc. co.uk/news/uk-wales- 21993724[/p][/quote]that is funney 900 pound per customer can you imagine how much it cost the tax payer scraptheWAG
  • Score: 7

9:25am Thu 30 Jan 14

no cheese says...

It won't be long before you need it in several more languages. The more people that are getting invites to live here the more languages you will need to provide to people. A while ago it was published that one school had 70 something languages spoken in the school. The cost wont stop there as you will be busy keeping up with who's here.
It won't be long before you need it in several more languages. The more people that are getting invites to live here the more languages you will need to provide to people. A while ago it was published that one school had 70 something languages spoken in the school. The cost wont stop there as you will be busy keeping up with who's here. no cheese
  • Score: 1

3:26pm Thu 30 Jan 14

ThisisNewport says...

Why don't the council have an in house translation service? They must pay thousands to get translation done externally every time. Think of all the reports, marketing materials etc that must need to get done!

But well done to them on getting it done. Welsh is the national language of Wales after all.
Why don't the council have an in house translation service? They must pay thousands to get translation done externally every time. Think of all the reports, marketing materials etc that must need to get done! But well done to them on getting it done. Welsh is the national language of Wales after all. ThisisNewport
  • Score: -6

3:39pm Thu 30 Jan 14

white white says...

;-)
;-) white white
  • Score: -5

6:22pm Thu 30 Jan 14

scraptheWAG says...

ThisisNewport wrote:
Why don't the council have an in house translation service? They must pay thousands to get translation done externally every time. Think of all the reports, marketing materials etc that must need to get done!

But well done to them on getting it done. Welsh is the national language of Wales after all.
utter dripple its no wonder wales is now in the state thats its in.
[quote][p][bold]ThisisNewport[/bold] wrote: Why don't the council have an in house translation service? They must pay thousands to get translation done externally every time. Think of all the reports, marketing materials etc that must need to get done! But well done to them on getting it done. Welsh is the national language of Wales after all.[/p][/quote]utter dripple its no wonder wales is now in the state thats its in. scraptheWAG
  • Score: 2

6:08am Fri 31 Jan 14

scraptheWAG says...

Llanmartinangel wrote:
Cymreigiwr wrote:
We're not obsessed and all have other things to worry about, but yes it is important for the council to support 1 in 7 of their citizens and comply with an obligation that's been clear for over 20 years, now legally strengthened. Despite repeated promises to do so, the Council has so badly failed to champion this significant part of the local population that some of you not only don't accept our rights, but apparently don't even accept that we exist. So yes, it's important to us, and yes we're happy the council is finally waking to 'arogl y coffi' and fixing it's website - if they'd done the job properly years ago as they should've it wouldn't need this money now, would it?

You know someone's lost it when they descend to absurd abuse:
briesmith: a largely made-up language from the age of the Hobbits

I also wish the Argus would upgrade their comments system to enable editing/selective quoting - few other newspapers have one that's quite so rubbish...
Christie Davies argues that as the Welsh language will and must die out, encouraging people to learn it is a pointless exercise

The study of Welsh is compulsory in all schools in Wales. In Gwynedd all teaching is exclusively through the medium of Welsh. Yet, in my opinion, learning Welsh is of no use to anyone, since even in Wales itself the language is spoken by less than a fifth of the population and the vast majority of Welsh speakers are bilingual, often with English as their stronger language.

In the past, when Welsh was stronger, it acted as a fetter on the achievements of the Welsh people. In Cornwall, where the people were liberated from the Cornish version of Welsh in the 18th century and entered fully into the English-speaking world of science and commerce, Davy discovered sodium, Trevithick invented the steam engine and Cousin Jack went on to dominate hard-rock mining throughout the world. All that could have been ours but for the bindweed of the Welsh language. There are no jobs for which a knowledge of Welsh is necessary.

It is not surprising that supporters of the Welsh language say that their aim is some kind of blurred bilingualism rather than monoglot Welshness. English speakers in Wales, as in England, would benefit more from a thorough knowledge of some other world language such as German and Spanish.

Whereas there is a strong case for ensuring that all school children in the United Kingdom should acquire a thorough mastery of all aspects of the English language, no such argument can be applied to the teaching and learning of Welsh. Rather, two libertarian principles should prevail throughout the Principality. First, all pupils should have an inalienable right to be educated through the medium of English. Second, every pupil should have the right not to study Welsh and to have access to a choice of modern languages in school.

While the Welsh language will, should and must die out, it does not follow that the study of dead Welsh should be abandoned. On the contrary the Welsh of the past should be made available alongside Latin and Greek for the more gifted pupils. Welsh is the nearest thing we have to the language of Caradog and Boudica, the ancestral language of everyone throughout England, Wales, Scotland and Ulster, with the exception of the alien Gaelic-speaking peoples of the outer fringes. Within Wales itself a new modular course in postmodernist Welshness could be introduced into all schools on a purely optional basis. Pupils would shop around for those bits and pieces of Welsh identity reflecting their own particular needs. Those for whom the teaching of things Welsh is merely disguised separatism and treason may well object that such an approach lacks a coherent metanarrative. Yet we teach religion in schools in exactly this fashion. The traditional Welsh way of life flourishes today only in rural Country Antrim. Shoring up a dying language will not bring back the moral culture for which it was once a vehicle.

Christie Davies is professor of sociology at the University of Reading.
here here it must die out
[quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Cymreigiwr[/bold] wrote: We're not obsessed and all have other things to worry about, but yes it is important for the council to support 1 in 7 of their citizens and comply with an obligation that's been clear for over 20 years, now legally strengthened. Despite repeated promises to do so, the Council has so badly failed to champion this significant part of the local population that some of you not only don't accept our rights, but apparently don't even accept that we exist. So yes, it's important to us, and yes we're happy the council is finally waking to 'arogl y coffi' and fixing it's website - if they'd done the job properly years ago as they should've it wouldn't need this money now, would it? You know someone's lost it when they descend to absurd abuse: [quote][p][bold]briesmith[/bold]: a largely made-up language from the age of the Hobbits[/p][/quote] I also wish the Argus would upgrade their comments system to enable editing/selective quoting - few other newspapers have one that's quite so rubbish...[/p][/quote]Christie Davies argues that as the Welsh language will and must die out, encouraging people to learn it is a pointless exercise The study of Welsh is compulsory in all schools in Wales. In Gwynedd all teaching is exclusively through the medium of Welsh. Yet, in my opinion, learning Welsh is of no use to anyone, since even in Wales itself the language is spoken by less than a fifth of the population and the vast majority of Welsh speakers are bilingual, often with English as their stronger language. In the past, when Welsh was stronger, it acted as a fetter on the achievements of the Welsh people. In Cornwall, where the people were liberated from the Cornish version of Welsh in the 18th century and entered fully into the English-speaking world of science and commerce, Davy discovered sodium, Trevithick invented the steam engine and Cousin Jack went on to dominate hard-rock mining throughout the world. All that could have been ours but for the bindweed of the Welsh language. There are no jobs for which a knowledge of Welsh is necessary. It is not surprising that supporters of the Welsh language say that their aim is some kind of blurred bilingualism rather than monoglot Welshness. English speakers in Wales, as in England, would benefit more from a thorough knowledge of some other world language such as German and Spanish. Whereas there is a strong case for ensuring that all school children in the United Kingdom should acquire a thorough mastery of all aspects of the English language, no such argument can be applied to the teaching and learning of Welsh. Rather, two libertarian principles should prevail throughout the Principality. First, all pupils should have an inalienable right to be educated through the medium of English. Second, every pupil should have the right not to study Welsh and to have access to a choice of modern languages in school. While the Welsh language will, should and must die out, it does not follow that the study of dead Welsh should be abandoned. On the contrary the Welsh of the past should be made available alongside Latin and Greek for the more gifted pupils. Welsh is the nearest thing we have to the language of Caradog and Boudica, the ancestral language of everyone throughout England, Wales, Scotland and Ulster, with the exception of the alien Gaelic-speaking peoples of the outer fringes. Within Wales itself a new modular course in postmodernist Welshness could be introduced into all schools on a purely optional basis. Pupils would shop around for those bits and pieces of Welsh identity reflecting their own particular needs. Those for whom the teaching of things Welsh is merely disguised separatism and treason may well object that such an approach lacks a coherent metanarrative. Yet we teach religion in schools in exactly this fashion. The traditional Welsh way of life flourishes today only in rural Country Antrim. Shoring up a dying language will not bring back the moral culture for which it was once a vehicle. Christie Davies is professor of sociology at the University of Reading.[/p][/quote]here here it must die out scraptheWAG
  • Score: 0

10:24am Fri 31 Jan 14

cannyfradock says...

ThisisNewport wrote:
Why don't the council have an in house translation service? They must pay thousands to get translation done externally every time. Think of all the reports, marketing materials etc that must need to get done!

But well done to them on getting it done. Welsh is the national language of Wales after all.
If Newport City Council can't find ONE person out of a Newport urban population of 306,844 (2011 census), to be able to translate English into Welsh then they have no moral right to spends thousands of pounds going outside the Newport area to find a translator......seem
s to defeat the object!!
[quote][p][bold]ThisisNewport[/bold] wrote: Why don't the council have an in house translation service? They must pay thousands to get translation done externally every time. Think of all the reports, marketing materials etc that must need to get done! But well done to them on getting it done. Welsh is the national language of Wales after all.[/p][/quote]If Newport City Council can't find ONE person out of a Newport urban population of 306,844 (2011 census), to be able to translate English into Welsh then they have no moral right to spends thousands of pounds going outside the Newport area to find a translator......seem s to defeat the object!! cannyfradock
  • Score: 8

10:44am Fri 31 Jan 14

briesmith says...

Getting the static, semi-permanent content of a website and all the navigation translated as a once-off exercise is relatively easy to do; and should be inexpensive.
It's the rapidly changing, dynamic content that causes the problems. Finding someone to keep up with the translation effort is difficult; particularly with dead, semi-synthetic languages like Welsh where the necessary words either don't exist and have to be made-up or they have already been made-up but their is controversy/disagree
ment about their aptness or correctness/purity.
Unless the English content is allowed to go ahead with the Welsh equivalent following later when eventually available, the website becomes moribund.
Allowing the English content to be uploaded (significantly) in advance of the Welsh translation just serves to highlight the difficulties inherent in Welsh translation and points up the inescapable fact that people manage perfectly well with the English version.
So what's the point of it all anyway?
Getting the static, semi-permanent content of a website and all the navigation translated as a once-off exercise is relatively easy to do; and should be inexpensive. It's the rapidly changing, dynamic content that causes the problems. Finding someone to keep up with the translation effort is difficult; particularly with dead, semi-synthetic languages like Welsh where the necessary words either don't exist and have to be made-up or they have already been made-up but their is controversy/disagree ment about their aptness or correctness/purity. Unless the English content is allowed to go ahead with the Welsh equivalent following later when eventually available, the website becomes moribund. Allowing the English content to be uploaded (significantly) in advance of the Welsh translation just serves to highlight the difficulties inherent in Welsh translation and points up the inescapable fact that people manage perfectly well with the English version. So what's the point of it all anyway? briesmith
  • Score: 6

4:19pm Fri 31 Jan 14

mills191184 says...

You people are moaning about £3k being spent on welsh, or any monies being spent at all on the language, yet at the same time the government is spending £50 billion on the HS2 rail network which is intended to save 30 minutes on travel times. How many of you will use that train? And yet I wonder how many of you feel negative about it or commented negatively. £50 billion that's halve the NHS budget yet you people are moaning over £3k. Get some perspectively over the governments spending. Foreign aid .07% of gross income. Tax avoided, evaded or uncollected £150 billion. But no worries continue moaning about £3k because we all know you got nothing better to do. I await being scored down from this sites anti-welsh group of around 12 people.
You people are moaning about £3k being spent on welsh, or any monies being spent at all on the language, yet at the same time the government is spending £50 billion on the HS2 rail network which is intended to save 30 minutes on travel times. How many of you will use that train? And yet I wonder how many of you feel negative about it or commented negatively. £50 billion that's halve the NHS budget yet you people are moaning over £3k. Get some perspectively over the governments spending. Foreign aid .07% of gross income. Tax avoided, evaded or uncollected £150 billion. But no worries continue moaning about £3k because we all know you got nothing better to do. I await being scored down from this sites anti-welsh group of around 12 people. mills191184
  • Score: -6

6:48pm Fri 31 Jan 14

Mervyn James says...

I'm a staunch supporter of welsh language inclusion,however, I would have preferred they update their website to reflect proper access and support for their patients with communication issues. They seem to reflect every other language except that which the deaf use, and there seems no attention given to the issue of pointless oral telephone numbers, or where the established liaison service exists. Last time I went there, I got handed a polish language flyer about services, obviously the AB Trust's idea of a joke, they are supposed to comply with a legal access ruling, and a new directive from the Assembly, they are doing neither. Next step will be a legal court case.
I'm a staunch supporter of welsh language inclusion,however, I would have preferred they update their website to reflect proper access and support for their patients with communication issues. They seem to reflect every other language except that which the deaf use, and there seems no attention given to the issue of pointless oral telephone numbers, or where the established liaison service exists. Last time I went there, I got handed a polish language flyer about services, obviously the AB Trust's idea of a joke, they are supposed to comply with a legal access ruling, and a new directive from the Assembly, they are doing neither. Next step will be a legal court case. Mervyn James
  • Score: -4

9:58am Sun 2 Feb 14

scraptheWAG says...

Mervyn James wrote:
I'm a staunch supporter of welsh language inclusion,however, I would have preferred they update their website to reflect proper access and support for their patients with communication issues. They seem to reflect every other language except that which the deaf use, and there seems no attention given to the issue of pointless oral telephone numbers, or where the established liaison service exists. Last time I went there, I got handed a polish language flyer about services, obviously the AB Trust's idea of a joke, they are supposed to comply with a legal access ruling, and a new directive from the Assembly, they are doing neither. Next step will be a legal court case.
you read a website whats deaf got to do with it.
[quote][p][bold]Mervyn James[/bold] wrote: I'm a staunch supporter of welsh language inclusion,however, I would have preferred they update their website to reflect proper access and support for their patients with communication issues. They seem to reflect every other language except that which the deaf use, and there seems no attention given to the issue of pointless oral telephone numbers, or where the established liaison service exists. Last time I went there, I got handed a polish language flyer about services, obviously the AB Trust's idea of a joke, they are supposed to comply with a legal access ruling, and a new directive from the Assembly, they are doing neither. Next step will be a legal court case.[/p][/quote]you read a website whats deaf got to do with it. scraptheWAG
  • Score: 2

12:01pm Sun 2 Feb 14

Melvyn The Milk says...

WELSH BUDDAH wrote:
632a6e7c@opayq.com wrote:
Loving the comments saying "charge the Welsh speakers more!". Should we also be charging extra council tax to disabled people for wheelchair access because "I'm not disabled, why should I pay for it?"? Selfish attitude.
Welcome to society. If you don't like the way it works (and I don't, personally) then do what you can to get anarchy instead of democracy, because that's what you're talking about when each is responsible for their own.
I don't get sick nor use the NHS, but I still have to pay NI contributions.
No, I'm not a Welsh speaker and yes, I'm from the Newport area. I'd be happy to pay to have our language in use in the area. It's already to anglicised.
Nicely put.....100% right.
Not nicely put.................
each is responsible for HIS/HER own; I don't get sick OR use the NHS; It's already TOO anglisised.

As I have been saying for years, we should be spending our money on far more important projects. Like teaching our children English literacy (so that we can communicate and do business with the rest of the world not just North Wales and Patagonia) then useful languages for business like German, French, Spanish and Chinese. We are not competing on an equal footing. We might also then see a better standard of literacy in these articles. The Welsh language has a place..........in the classroom, in the poet's bedroom, in the Eisteddfod.........b
ut not in the modern world of business where other languages are essential. The only jobs it brings are for the translators of documents which 90% of people can't read.
[quote][p][bold]WELSH BUDDAH[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]632a6e7c@opayq.com[/bold] wrote: Loving the comments saying "charge the Welsh speakers more!". Should we also be charging extra council tax to disabled people for wheelchair access because "I'm not disabled, why should I pay for it?"? Selfish attitude. Welcome to society. If you don't like the way it works (and I don't, personally) then do what you can to get anarchy instead of democracy, because that's what you're talking about when each is responsible for their own. I don't get sick nor use the NHS, but I still have to pay NI contributions. No, I'm not a Welsh speaker and yes, I'm from the Newport area. I'd be happy to pay to have our language in use in the area. It's already to anglicised.[/p][/quote]Nicely put.....100% right.[/p][/quote]Not nicely put................. each is responsible for HIS/HER own; I don't get sick OR use the NHS; It's already TOO anglisised. As I have been saying for years, we should be spending our money on far more important projects. Like teaching our children English literacy (so that we can communicate and do business with the rest of the world not just North Wales and Patagonia) then useful languages for business like German, French, Spanish and Chinese. We are not competing on an equal footing. We might also then see a better standard of literacy in these articles. The Welsh language has a place..........in the classroom, in the poet's bedroom, in the Eisteddfod.........b ut not in the modern world of business where other languages are essential. The only jobs it brings are for the translators of documents which 90% of people can't read. Melvyn The Milk
  • Score: 2

9:11am Mon 3 Feb 14

Mervyn James says...

scraptheWAG wrote:
Mervyn James wrote:
I'm a staunch supporter of welsh language inclusion,however, I would have preferred they update their website to reflect proper access and support for their patients with communication issues. They seem to reflect every other language except that which the deaf use, and there seems no attention given to the issue of pointless oral telephone numbers, or where the established liaison service exists. Last time I went there, I got handed a polish language flyer about services, obviously the AB Trust's idea of a joke, they are supposed to comply with a legal access ruling, and a new directive from the Assembly, they are doing neither. Next step will be a legal court case.
you read a website whats deaf got to do with it.
It makes a whole lot of difference if that is the only access you can use to contact the NHS and find there is no viable contact, then we are excluded, we can read we can hear we can talk we can hear, seems a prevalent assumption that is wrong in 90% of all cases, that is why it is called an 'invisible' disability'. I fail to see how you or the AB trust can assume giving a welsh deaf person a printed flyer in Polish is access !

On an individual note you can pick up a phone and make a call, that isn't possible easily for us, my GP refuses to take a text call, forcing me to attend the surgery in person, the clinics do, and hospitals refuse as well, I spent 2 hours roaming around the RGH trying to find signed support for my partner, simply because there was NO viable website or phone access.

Few deaf would attempt that, as it means you have to ask questions of staff there without being able to hear them. At best you are directed to the PR system who rings around for you, factually this dis-empowers me from having the same access as you, and makes me reliant on others when there is no need. enabling me saves the system money, I don't then rely on the NHS doing my phone calls for a start, and I don't want a carer, why should I ? That would just cost the NHS a load of money too,just because I have the nous to do these things doesn't mean everyone else deaf can. The NHS was always a shambles,for us it is a dangerous place to be as well. You try sitting in a ward for 6 weeks being totally unsupported in knowing what the Dr is even telling you... 6 elderly deaf patients had to.... it is soul destroying and very frightening.... The NHS here couldn't even see a patient was deaf, he died as a result of misdiagnosis... they said he had Alzheimers (He didn't), and died of cancer.
[quote][p][bold]scraptheWAG[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Mervyn James[/bold] wrote: I'm a staunch supporter of welsh language inclusion,however, I would have preferred they update their website to reflect proper access and support for their patients with communication issues. They seem to reflect every other language except that which the deaf use, and there seems no attention given to the issue of pointless oral telephone numbers, or where the established liaison service exists. Last time I went there, I got handed a polish language flyer about services, obviously the AB Trust's idea of a joke, they are supposed to comply with a legal access ruling, and a new directive from the Assembly, they are doing neither. Next step will be a legal court case.[/p][/quote]you read a website whats deaf got to do with it.[/p][/quote]It makes a whole lot of difference if that is the only access you can use to contact the NHS and find there is no viable contact, then we are excluded, we can read we can hear we can talk we can hear, seems a prevalent assumption that is wrong in 90% of all cases, that is why it is called an 'invisible' disability'. I fail to see how you or the AB trust can assume giving a welsh deaf person a printed flyer in Polish is access ! On an individual note you can pick up a phone and make a call, that isn't possible easily for us, my GP refuses to take a text call, forcing me to attend the surgery in person, the clinics do, and hospitals refuse as well, I spent 2 hours roaming around the RGH trying to find signed support for my partner, simply because there was NO viable website or phone access. Few deaf would attempt that, as it means you have to ask questions of staff there without being able to hear them. At best you are directed to the PR system who rings around for you, factually this dis-empowers me from having the same access as you, and makes me reliant on others when there is no need. enabling me saves the system money, I don't then rely on the NHS doing my phone calls for a start, and I don't want a carer, why should I ? That would just cost the NHS a load of money too,just because I have the nous to do these things doesn't mean everyone else deaf can. The NHS was always a shambles,for us it is a dangerous place to be as well. You try sitting in a ward for 6 weeks being totally unsupported in knowing what the Dr is even telling you... 6 elderly deaf patients had to.... it is soul destroying and very frightening.... The NHS here couldn't even see a patient was deaf, he died as a result of misdiagnosis... they said he had Alzheimers (He didn't), and died of cancer. Mervyn James
  • Score: 2

10:34am Mon 3 Feb 14

Lewis SWA says...

I agree that the website should have a welsh option, we are in Wales after all. However I don't fully understand the huge cost associated.
Most internet browsers can perform an automatic translation free of charge.
I agree that the website should have a welsh option, we are in Wales after all. However I don't fully understand the huge cost associated. Most internet browsers can perform an automatic translation free of charge. Lewis SWA
  • Score: 1

4:06pm Mon 3 Feb 14

Torfaenwr says...

As a regular user of Google Translate and other machine translation tools, I can tell you these are absolutely not adequate - I wish they were as good as people think they are, but they really aren't! They are useful enough to be better than nothing for social use, but although you can make sense of the output much of the time, it often badly distorts or corrupts the meaning so as to be either unintelligible, or even more seriously, misleading. This makes it dangerous to rely on for important factual information and services. Also functional pages (as opposed to static text) often won't work properly at all.

This is why key public service websites like the council's have to be published properly and to a reasonable standard. Of course, any sensible organisation that was subject to a duty to do this for over 20 years would have planned a proper efficient in-house means to achieve it long before now...
As a regular user of Google Translate and other machine translation tools, I can tell you these are absolutely not adequate - I wish they were as good as people think they are, but they really aren't! They are useful enough to be better than nothing for social use, but although you can make sense of the output much of the time, it often badly distorts or corrupts the meaning so as to be either unintelligible, or even more seriously, misleading. This makes it dangerous to rely on for important factual information and services. Also functional pages (as opposed to static text) often won't work properly at all. This is why key public service websites like the council's have to be published properly and to a reasonable standard. Of course, any sensible organisation that was subject to a duty to do this for over 20 years would have planned a proper efficient in-house means to achieve it long before now... Torfaenwr
  • Score: 4

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