Wales considers e-cigs and cheap booze ban

Wales considers e-cigarettes ban

Wales considers e-cigarettes ban

First published in Gwent news
Last updated
South Wales Argus: Photograph of the Author by

WAR is being declared on cheap alcohol and the use of e-cigarettes by a Welsh Government intent on tackling what it sees as major public health risks.

Minimum unit pricing for alcohol and restrictions on the use of e-cigarettes in public places, the latter a UK first, are among radical proposals in a White Paper being launched today by health minister Mark Drakeford.

If the proposals become law, alcohol would cost a minimum 50p a unit, intended to reduce the toll on health from misuse.

Restricting the use of e-cigarettes in public, responds to concerns from health bodies that such products normalise smoking and could undermine the smoking ban.

Another smoking-related proposal is the introduction of a tobacco retailers’ register, requiring businesses to inform authorities if they sell tobacco, with stiffer penalties for selling to under-18s. The White Paper coincides with the seventh anniversary of the smoking ban in Wales.

“Alcohol and tobacco contribute to many life-threatening illnesses and are major causes of persistent inequalities in health,” said Professor Drakeford.

“There is indisputable evidence that the price of alcohol matters. It’s no coincidence that as the affordability of alcohol has increased substantially, so has alcohol-related death and disease. A minimum price will make a strong contribution to preventing alcohol misuse and reducing alcohol-associated illnesses.”

Professor Drakeford said the proposal for e-cigarettes is intended to minimise the risk of a new generation becoming addicted to nicotine.

The White Paper also considers whether to make it an offence to deliver a tobacco product ordered online to someone under 18, even if it was ordered by an adult.

This would operate alongside a new offence in the UK Children and Families Act to protect under-18s from accessing tobacco.

A national register is also proposed requiring businesses and people practising cosmetic piercing, tattooing and other special procedures to improve regulation, and would set standards on cleanliness and hygiene.

Councils would be bound to ensure public toilets are available in communities.

Views are sought through a public consultation that closes on June 24.

The White Paper ‘Listening to you: Your health matters’ is available at wales.gov.uk

Comments (65)

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9:28am Wed 2 Apr 14

ncfcr says...

Why not just ban real cigarettes and issue these things on the NHS for 6 months until the country has forgotten about smoking? Oh, that's right, too much money involved.

This is coming from someone who does smoke.
Why not just ban real cigarettes and issue these things on the NHS for 6 months until the country has forgotten about smoking? Oh, that's right, too much money involved. This is coming from someone who does smoke. ncfcr
  • Score: 20

9:32am Wed 2 Apr 14

-trigg- says...

E-cigs are a substitute for proper cigarettes. Does the WAG really think it's a healthy option to discourage their use?
E-cigs are a substitute for proper cigarettes. Does the WAG really think it's a healthy option to discourage their use? -trigg-
  • Score: 20

9:59am Wed 2 Apr 14

Lliswerry Man says...

Just quit cold turkey , problems solved all over then. You save money, the Government loses money and the NHS can use their funding elsewhere.
Just quit cold turkey , problems solved all over then. You save money, the Government loses money and the NHS can use their funding elsewhere. Lliswerry Man
  • Score: 7

10:02am Wed 2 Apr 14

Dafydd y Garreg Wen says...

Third rate politicians, third rate ideas, third world country. Welcome to Wales.
Third rate politicians, third rate ideas, third world country. Welcome to Wales. Dafydd y Garreg Wen
  • Score: 43

10:15am Wed 2 Apr 14

Magor says...

Ban this,Ban that. Nanny State.
Ban this,Ban that. Nanny State. Magor
  • Score: 50

10:43am Wed 2 Apr 14

Crossbenchtory says...

The proposed ban on e-cigarettes has absolutely nothing to do with public health or the normalisation of smoking. It purely about the socialists desire to control every aspect of our lives.

I smoked 30 a day for a large portion of my life and after years of trying to quit I have not had a cigarette now for nearly 2 years, I am healthier, happier, have more money in my pocket, I no longer smell of stale cigarette smoke and I can smell & taste my food.

So how have I finally broken the habit which caused damage to my health and would have ultimately killed me, simple, I now use an e-cigarette. Yes, I am still addicted to nicotine (a fact which does not particularly bother me) but it's use no longer harms my health or the health of those around me.

If this proposal becomes law I would suggest a class action be taken against the WAG on the grounds that they are forcing people, who are essentially non smokers, to expose themselves to passive smoking and all the associated health risks.

As for minimum alcohol pricing, what a complete load of drivel. If you want to cut down on the amount of alcohol being consumed simply don't allow every second shop to hold an off licence. It isn't rocket science people.

Cut down the number of places alcohol can be purchased, make them predominantly on licence so people are drinking in a social setting where landlords, and older more experienced drinkers, are able to exercise some influence over the way and amount people drink. Landlords do not want trouble in their pubs as it attracts the attention of the police and let's face it, most landlords are a little bit iffey, not completely bent or criminal, but just a little iffey.

We, the British people, need to send a very succinct message to our politicians ...

"Just leave us alone to get on with our lives and stop trying to regulate and control everything we do, it's getting boring and more than a little bit irritating"
The proposed ban on e-cigarettes has absolutely nothing to do with public health or the normalisation of smoking. It purely about the socialists desire to control every aspect of our lives. I smoked 30 a day for a large portion of my life and after years of trying to quit I have not had a cigarette now for nearly 2 years, I am healthier, happier, have more money in my pocket, I no longer smell of stale cigarette smoke and I can smell & taste my food. So how have I finally broken the habit which caused damage to my health and would have ultimately killed me, simple, I now use an e-cigarette. Yes, I am still addicted to nicotine (a fact which does not particularly bother me) but it's use no longer harms my health or the health of those around me. If this proposal becomes law I would suggest a class action be taken against the WAG on the grounds that they are forcing people, who are essentially non smokers, to expose themselves to passive smoking and all the associated health risks. As for minimum alcohol pricing, what a complete load of drivel. If you want to cut down on the amount of alcohol being consumed simply don't allow every second shop to hold an off licence. It isn't rocket science people. Cut down the number of places alcohol can be purchased, make them predominantly on licence so people are drinking in a social setting where landlords, and older more experienced drinkers, are able to exercise some influence over the way and amount people drink. Landlords do not want trouble in their pubs as it attracts the attention of the police and let's face it, most landlords are a little bit iffey, not completely bent or criminal, but just a little iffey. We, the British people, need to send a very succinct message to our politicians ... "Just leave us alone to get on with our lives and stop trying to regulate and control everything we do, it's getting boring and more than a little bit irritating" Crossbenchtory
  • Score: -20

10:54am Wed 2 Apr 14

Good Job No Kids says...

I would much prefer that Carwyn and his band of clowns did something about the abysmal health service in wales instead of stupid token policies like this.

As ecigs are vaporised vegetable glycerine enriched with nicotine, quite how they are harmful I'm yet to understand. Not that Carwyn has ever been too concerned with facts.
I would much prefer that Carwyn and his band of clowns did something about the abysmal health service in wales instead of stupid token policies like this. As ecigs are vaporised vegetable glycerine enriched with nicotine, quite how they are harmful I'm yet to understand. Not that Carwyn has ever been too concerned with facts. Good Job No Kids
  • Score: 37

10:59am Wed 2 Apr 14

Llanmartinangel says...

Dafydd y Garreg Wen wrote:
Third rate politicians, third rate ideas, third world country. Welcome to Wales.
Wait til they get hold of income tax. Then you'll really see how bad they are.
[quote][p][bold]Dafydd y Garreg Wen[/bold] wrote: Third rate politicians, third rate ideas, third world country. Welcome to Wales.[/p][/quote]Wait til they get hold of income tax. Then you'll really see how bad they are. Llanmartinangel
  • Score: 37

12:14pm Wed 2 Apr 14

Boadacia! says...

Why don't those advocating banning anything and everything out of their own ignorance, do a little research occasionally?

So e-cigs because they LOOK like smoking are to be denied the hundreds of thousands that have been saved from the known effects of toxic cigarettes and force people back onto them? Wonderful sense there!

I often LOOK like a politician, but don't be fooled! I have at least ONE principle, and I'm much less influenced by pharma' and tobacco industry bribes! I even care* that thousands don't kill themselves for the benefit of a few elite and their luxury existences.
Why don't those advocating banning anything and everything out of their own ignorance, do a little research occasionally? So e-cigs because they LOOK like smoking are to be denied the hundreds of thousands that have been saved from the known effects of toxic cigarettes and force people back onto them? Wonderful sense there! I often LOOK like a politician, but don't be fooled! I have at least ONE principle, and I'm much less influenced by pharma' and tobacco industry bribes! I even care* that thousands don't kill themselves for the benefit of a few elite and their luxury existences. Boadacia!
  • Score: 17

12:24pm Wed 2 Apr 14

county mad says...

Llanmartinangel wrote:
Dafydd y Garreg Wen wrote:
Third rate politicians, third rate ideas, third world country. Welcome to Wales.
Wait til they get hold of income tax. Then you'll really see how bad they are.
they dont want tax raising powers because then they will be exposed as the incompetent blundering bunch of no marks as they constantly raid our pockets for their largessehe WAG had two main responsibilities health aqnd education they have totally failed in both and are hiding the facts on mortality ,the open fact that waiting lists are lengthening,the ambulance service is in free fall ,the education is not even third world standards . So this is a headline grabber to deflect attention and once again they have mucked up picking on the wrong cause .You couldnt write finer comedy than these brain doners
[quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dafydd y Garreg Wen[/bold] wrote: Third rate politicians, third rate ideas, third world country. Welcome to Wales.[/p][/quote]Wait til they get hold of income tax. Then you'll really see how bad they are.[/p][/quote]they dont want tax raising powers because then they will be exposed as the incompetent blundering bunch of no marks as they constantly raid our pockets for their largessehe WAG had two main responsibilities health aqnd education they have totally failed in both and are hiding the facts on mortality ,the open fact that waiting lists are lengthening,the ambulance service is in free fall ,the education is not even third world standards . So this is a headline grabber to deflect attention and once again they have mucked up picking on the wrong cause .You couldnt write finer comedy than these brain doners county mad
  • Score: 26

12:53pm Wed 2 Apr 14

sooty001 says...

Dafydd y Garreg Wen wrote:
Third rate politicians, third rate ideas, third world country. Welcome to Wales.
I echo that, crackpot idea, sort out the real problems ie, drugs, potholes, housing, the Assembly is just a talking shop, while people are short of the basics of life they meander through life feeling important.
[quote][p][bold]Dafydd y Garreg Wen[/bold] wrote: Third rate politicians, third rate ideas, third world country. Welcome to Wales.[/p][/quote]I echo that, crackpot idea, sort out the real problems ie, drugs, potholes, housing, the Assembly is just a talking shop, while people are short of the basics of life they meander through life feeling important. sooty001
  • Score: 31

12:59pm Wed 2 Apr 14

Magor says...

Llanmartinangel wrote:
Dafydd y Garreg Wen wrote:
Third rate politicians, third rate ideas, third world country. Welcome to Wales.
Wait til they get hold of income tax. Then you'll really see how bad they are.
That's when there will be a lot of people moving over the bridge.
[quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dafydd y Garreg Wen[/bold] wrote: Third rate politicians, third rate ideas, third world country. Welcome to Wales.[/p][/quote]Wait til they get hold of income tax. Then you'll really see how bad they are.[/p][/quote]That's when there will be a lot of people moving over the bridge. Magor
  • Score: 17

1:22pm Wed 2 Apr 14

Dragonmum says...

Nye Bevan must be spinning in his grave! The opportunity to put an end - or at least encourage an end to the pulmonary problems that are endemic to our little country, thanks to our Industrial history and our love of smoking - he'd have bitten your hand off for that opportunity, Our present "Administration" are far happier attending conferences on the merits of the five a day cure-all - which is, of course, more rubbish; from 1939 - 45 you'd be lucky to see 5 a year. Wales should be making it illegal to discourage e-cigs, I haven't required medical treatment, steroids or antibiotics for the 4 years I've been "vaping" and that's very good news for me as an asthmatic and COPD sufferer, but bad for the Pharmaceutical Giants who influence every move made by the EU and Governments. The e-cig is the 21st century miracle - a safe alternative and, something everyone fails to notice, it is providing a huge boost to the economy - even small towns in my area have retail outlets which are flourishing; the estimated 2 million e-cig users are creating jobs in an area where they are sadly lacking. If anyone were serious about wanting to eliminate smoking...........bu
t they are NOT! I'm glad I grew up in an age of political Giants like Nye - sock-puppets just don't cut it.
Nye Bevan must be spinning in his grave! The opportunity to put an end - or at least encourage an end to the pulmonary problems that are endemic to our little country, thanks to our Industrial history and our love of smoking - he'd have bitten your hand off for that opportunity, Our present "Administration" are far happier attending conferences on the merits of the five a day cure-all - which is, of course, more rubbish; from 1939 - 45 you'd be lucky to see 5 a year. Wales should be making it illegal to discourage e-cigs, I haven't required medical treatment, steroids or antibiotics for the 4 years I've been "vaping" and that's very good news for me as an asthmatic and COPD sufferer, but bad for the Pharmaceutical Giants who influence every move made by the EU and Governments. The e-cig is the 21st century miracle - a safe alternative and, something everyone fails to notice, it is providing a huge boost to the economy - even small towns in my area have retail outlets which are flourishing; the estimated 2 million e-cig users are creating jobs in an area where they are sadly lacking. If anyone were serious about wanting to eliminate smoking...........bu t they are NOT! I'm glad I grew up in an age of political Giants like Nye - sock-puppets just don't cut it. Dragonmum
  • Score: 23

1:24pm Wed 2 Apr 14

brainyfurball says...

This was published on 20th March by no less than The Royal College of Physicians.

"Despite the controversies, it is clear that e-cigarettes are far less hazardous than is tobacco. With more than a million UK smokers using them to help to cut down or quit smoking, they are proving to be valuable harm reduction and cessation products and could make a substantial contribution to reducing the burden of death, disability and poverty currently caused by tobacco smoking. Health professionals should embrace this potential by encouraging smokers, particularly those disinclined to use licensed nicotine replacement therapies, to try them, and, when possible, to do so in conjunction with existing NHS smoking cessation and harm reduction support. E-cigarettes will save lives, and we should support their use."

http://www.rcplondon
.ac.uk/commentary/wh
at-you-need-know-abo
ut-electronic-cigare
ttes
This was published on 20th March by no less than The Royal College of Physicians. "Despite the controversies, it is clear that e-cigarettes are far less hazardous than is tobacco. With more than a million UK smokers using them to help to cut down or quit smoking, they are proving to be valuable harm reduction and cessation products and could make a substantial contribution to reducing the burden of death, disability and poverty currently caused by tobacco smoking. Health professionals should embrace this potential by encouraging smokers, particularly those disinclined to use licensed nicotine replacement therapies, to try them, and, when possible, to do so in conjunction with existing NHS smoking cessation and harm reduction support. E-cigarettes will save lives, and we should support their use." http://www.rcplondon .ac.uk/commentary/wh at-you-need-know-abo ut-electronic-cigare ttes brainyfurball
  • Score: 21

1:43pm Wed 2 Apr 14

Mr.Jolly. says...

All the problems we have in Wales and this is the best these politically correct left wing meddlers can come up with?
I used to vote Labour, never again.
All the problems we have in Wales and this is the best these politically correct left wing meddlers can come up with? I used to vote Labour, never again. Mr.Jolly.
  • Score: 26

1:57pm Wed 2 Apr 14

endthelies says...

Why stop at E cigarettes. Ban Greggs for selling pastries (obesity) supermarkets for selling bread, cakes etc (obesity), ban the corner shops for selling chocolate, ban wetherspoons for selling alcohol. Absolutely ridiculous. e cigs are not harmful to folk so why ban them. I wonder is it because the government are not making money out of e cigs like they do out of tobacco? Just a thought.
Why stop at E cigarettes. Ban Greggs for selling pastries (obesity) supermarkets for selling bread, cakes etc (obesity), ban the corner shops for selling chocolate, ban wetherspoons for selling alcohol. Absolutely ridiculous. e cigs are not harmful to folk so why ban them. I wonder is it because the government are not making money out of e cigs like they do out of tobacco? Just a thought. endthelies
  • Score: 27

2:11pm Wed 2 Apr 14

Crossbenchtory says...

endthelies wrote:
Why stop at E cigarettes. Ban Greggs for selling pastries (obesity) supermarkets for selling bread, cakes etc (obesity), ban the corner shops for selling chocolate, ban wetherspoons for selling alcohol. Absolutely ridiculous. e cigs are not harmful to folk so why ban them. I wonder is it because the government are not making money out of e cigs like they do out of tobacco? Just a thought.
Being that, thankfully, the Welsh Windfarm does not raise taxes of any kind, being as it is satisfied with merely misappropriating money from the tax payer via Westminster, it is unlikely that their motivation is monetary.

I would submit that the reasons are far more insidious, firstly increasing their control over every aspect of the populations lives with their "we know best" mantra and secondly it is an attempt to divert attention away from the fact that their incompetence is causing the deaths of large numbers of the population in the NHS whilst creating an entire generation of illiterate & innumerate replacements for the dead with little or no hope of success who will forever vote labour because they are poor, not realising that they are poor because they and their parents & grandparents vote labour.

This is social engineering at its worst as it supplies no hope for the future other than becoming a socialist functionary.
[quote][p][bold]endthelies[/bold] wrote: Why stop at E cigarettes. Ban Greggs for selling pastries (obesity) supermarkets for selling bread, cakes etc (obesity), ban the corner shops for selling chocolate, ban wetherspoons for selling alcohol. Absolutely ridiculous. e cigs are not harmful to folk so why ban them. I wonder is it because the government are not making money out of e cigs like they do out of tobacco? Just a thought.[/p][/quote]Being that, thankfully, the Welsh Windfarm does not raise taxes of any kind, being as it is satisfied with merely misappropriating money from the tax payer via Westminster, it is unlikely that their motivation is monetary. I would submit that the reasons are far more insidious, firstly increasing their control over every aspect of the populations lives with their "we know best" mantra and secondly it is an attempt to divert attention away from the fact that their incompetence is causing the deaths of large numbers of the population in the NHS whilst creating an entire generation of illiterate & innumerate replacements for the dead with little or no hope of success who will forever vote labour because they are poor, not realising that they are poor because they and their parents & grandparents vote labour. This is social engineering at its worst as it supplies no hope for the future other than becoming a socialist functionary. Crossbenchtory
  • Score: 18

2:26pm Wed 2 Apr 14

Llanmartinangel says...

Crossbenchtory wrote:
endthelies wrote:
Why stop at E cigarettes. Ban Greggs for selling pastries (obesity) supermarkets for selling bread, cakes etc (obesity), ban the corner shops for selling chocolate, ban wetherspoons for selling alcohol. Absolutely ridiculous. e cigs are not harmful to folk so why ban them. I wonder is it because the government are not making money out of e cigs like they do out of tobacco? Just a thought.
Being that, thankfully, the Welsh Windfarm does not raise taxes of any kind, being as it is satisfied with merely misappropriating money from the tax payer via Westminster, it is unlikely that their motivation is monetary.

I would submit that the reasons are far more insidious, firstly increasing their control over every aspect of the populations lives with their "we know best" mantra and secondly it is an attempt to divert attention away from the fact that their incompetence is causing the deaths of large numbers of the population in the NHS whilst creating an entire generation of illiterate & innumerate replacements for the dead with little or no hope of success who will forever vote labour because they are poor, not realising that they are poor because they and their parents & grandparents vote labour.

This is social engineering at its worst as it supplies no hope for the future other than becoming a socialist functionary.
Well said CBT
[quote][p][bold]Crossbenchtory[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]endthelies[/bold] wrote: Why stop at E cigarettes. Ban Greggs for selling pastries (obesity) supermarkets for selling bread, cakes etc (obesity), ban the corner shops for selling chocolate, ban wetherspoons for selling alcohol. Absolutely ridiculous. e cigs are not harmful to folk so why ban them. I wonder is it because the government are not making money out of e cigs like they do out of tobacco? Just a thought.[/p][/quote]Being that, thankfully, the Welsh Windfarm does not raise taxes of any kind, being as it is satisfied with merely misappropriating money from the tax payer via Westminster, it is unlikely that their motivation is monetary. I would submit that the reasons are far more insidious, firstly increasing their control over every aspect of the populations lives with their "we know best" mantra and secondly it is an attempt to divert attention away from the fact that their incompetence is causing the deaths of large numbers of the population in the NHS whilst creating an entire generation of illiterate & innumerate replacements for the dead with little or no hope of success who will forever vote labour because they are poor, not realising that they are poor because they and their parents & grandparents vote labour. This is social engineering at its worst as it supplies no hope for the future other than becoming a socialist functionary.[/p][/quote]Well said CBT Llanmartinangel
  • Score: 11

2:49pm Wed 2 Apr 14

DDDog1 says...

BREATHING IN ULTRA-FINE PARTICLES

Dr. Stanton Glantz is a professor at the University of California at San Francisco and one of the leading researchers on e-cigarettes.

He believes calling ‘vaping' safe is a lot of smoke and mirrors.

"If you are around somebody who is using e-cigarettes, you are breathing in ultra-fine particles and you are breathing in nicotine," he said.

You can buy e-cigarettes without nicotine in them, but most of them contain the addictive chemical.

"It heats up a mixture of nicotine, proplynegycal and other chemicals, and that heated mixture becomes an aerosol, which is inhaled deeply into your lungs to deliver the addictive drug nicotine," Glantz said.

Current research shows there is detectable levels of nicotine in non-smokers who hang around people using e-cigarettes.

COPPER, NICKEL AND TIN FOUND

"I would say e-cigarettes are the cigarettes of the 21 st century," according to scientist Dr. Prue Talbot. She and her team at the University of California Riverside are among the first in the country to analyze the vapor in e-cigarettes.

The ABC15 Investigators had her team test two brands of e-cigarettes using a smoking machine and a specialized microscope.

The first test was for Smoking Everywhere Platinum. It showed metals.

"There is quite a bit of tin. Most of this material is composed of tin," said Dr. Talbot. "There is also some oxygen, some copper and some nickel."

Smoking Everywhere Platinum had so much metal in the vapor that it created pellets.

"I think the fact there is significant amount of tin in these pellets is important. This means the people using this product are going to be inhaling the tin," said Dr. Talbot.

The doctor continue to say that inhaling tin directly or even second-hand can be dangerous.

"Nanoparticles in general can be toxic," she said. "In the case of e-cigarettes, the nanoparticles would tend to go deeper into the respiratory system."

"These particles are so very small they go from your lungs straight into your blood stream, and carry the toxic chemicals into your blood, and then appear in various organs," said Dr. Glantz.

The research team has tested many brands of e-cigarettes, and each one had a different result. But, keep in mind, each brand is manufactured differently.

For example, the second brand we had the lab test, Mistic, had no tin in the vapor. But, the lab found concentrations of copper.

Supporters say e-cigarettes are only 10 to 20 percent as polluting as tobacco cigarettes. But Dr. Glantz said that's still not good. "On an absolute whole, it's still a bad thing," she said.
BREATHING IN ULTRA-FINE PARTICLES Dr. Stanton Glantz is a professor at the University of California at San Francisco and one of the leading researchers on e-cigarettes. He believes calling ‘vaping' safe is a lot of smoke and mirrors. "If you are around somebody who is using e-cigarettes, you are breathing in ultra-fine particles and you are breathing in nicotine," he said. You can buy e-cigarettes without nicotine in them, but most of them contain the addictive chemical. "It heats up a mixture of nicotine, proplynegycal and other chemicals, and that heated mixture becomes an aerosol, which is inhaled deeply into your lungs to deliver the addictive drug nicotine," Glantz said. Current research shows there is detectable levels of nicotine in non-smokers who hang around people using e-cigarettes. COPPER, NICKEL AND TIN FOUND "I would say e-cigarettes are the cigarettes of the 21 st century," according to scientist Dr. Prue Talbot. She and her team at the University of California Riverside are among the first in the country to analyze the vapor in e-cigarettes. The ABC15 Investigators had her team test two brands of e-cigarettes using a smoking machine and a specialized microscope. The first test was for Smoking Everywhere Platinum. It showed metals. "There is quite a bit of tin. Most of this material is composed of tin," said Dr. Talbot. "There is also some oxygen, some copper and some nickel." Smoking Everywhere Platinum had so much metal in the vapor that it created pellets. "I think the fact there is significant amount of tin in these pellets is important. This means the people using this product are going to be inhaling the tin," said Dr. Talbot. The doctor continue to say that inhaling tin directly or even second-hand can be dangerous. "Nanoparticles in general can be toxic," she said. "In the case of e-cigarettes, the nanoparticles would tend to go deeper into the respiratory system." "These particles are so very small they go from your lungs straight into your blood stream, and carry the toxic chemicals into your blood, and then appear in various organs," said Dr. Glantz. The research team has tested many brands of e-cigarettes, and each one had a different result. But, keep in mind, each brand is manufactured differently. For example, the second brand we had the lab test, Mistic, had no tin in the vapor. But, the lab found concentrations of copper. Supporters say e-cigarettes are only 10 to 20 percent as polluting as tobacco cigarettes. But Dr. Glantz said that's still not good. "On an absolute whole, it's still a bad thing," she said. DDDog1
  • Score: -10

3:01pm Wed 2 Apr 14

Dragonmum says...

Oh yes, Stan the Man - I believe he has a degree in Engineering and his outpourings are rejected totally by medics such as Dr Farsalinos of the Onassis Cardiac Centre, Prof. Michael Siegel of Boston, Prof. Jacques le Houezec - and of course Peter Hajec of Queens. Google is your friend - these are just a few of the names of the truly qualified who have dismissed his theories, there are lots more.
Oh yes, Stan the Man - I believe he has a degree in Engineering and his outpourings are rejected totally by medics such as Dr Farsalinos of the Onassis Cardiac Centre, Prof. Michael Siegel of Boston, Prof. Jacques le Houezec - and of course Peter Hajec of Queens. Google is your friend - these are just a few of the names of the truly qualified who have dismissed his theories, there are lots more. Dragonmum
  • Score: 9

3:05pm Wed 2 Apr 14

DDDog1 says...

You can't honestly believe anything that is vaporised and breathed deep into the lungs is not doing any harm to you can you Dragonmum?
You can't honestly believe anything that is vaporised and breathed deep into the lungs is not doing any harm to you can you Dragonmum? DDDog1
  • Score: -10

3:13pm Wed 2 Apr 14

endthelies says...

Crossbenchtory wrote:
endthelies wrote:
Why stop at E cigarettes. Ban Greggs for selling pastries (obesity) supermarkets for selling bread, cakes etc (obesity), ban the corner shops for selling chocolate, ban wetherspoons for selling alcohol. Absolutely ridiculous. e cigs are not harmful to folk so why ban them. I wonder is it because the government are not making money out of e cigs like they do out of tobacco? Just a thought.
Being that, thankfully, the Welsh Windfarm does not raise taxes of any kind, being as it is satisfied with merely misappropriating money from the tax payer via Westminster, it is unlikely that their motivation is monetary.

I would submit that the reasons are far more insidious, firstly increasing their control over every aspect of the populations lives with their "we know best" mantra and secondly it is an attempt to divert attention away from the fact that their incompetence is causing the deaths of large numbers of the population in the NHS whilst creating an entire generation of illiterate & innumerate replacements for the dead with little or no hope of success who will forever vote labour because they are poor, not realising that they are poor because they and their parents & grandparents vote labour.

This is social engineering at its worst as it supplies no hope for the future other than becoming a socialist functionary.
Oh right. banning ecigs will create 'an entire generation of illiterate and innumerate replacements for the dead with little or no hope of success who will forever vote Labour because they are poor'. Excuse me, I haven't quite stopped laughing yet so can't really finish this post properly. I'll come back to you lol.
[quote][p][bold]Crossbenchtory[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]endthelies[/bold] wrote: Why stop at E cigarettes. Ban Greggs for selling pastries (obesity) supermarkets for selling bread, cakes etc (obesity), ban the corner shops for selling chocolate, ban wetherspoons for selling alcohol. Absolutely ridiculous. e cigs are not harmful to folk so why ban them. I wonder is it because the government are not making money out of e cigs like they do out of tobacco? Just a thought.[/p][/quote]Being that, thankfully, the Welsh Windfarm does not raise taxes of any kind, being as it is satisfied with merely misappropriating money from the tax payer via Westminster, it is unlikely that their motivation is monetary. I would submit that the reasons are far more insidious, firstly increasing their control over every aspect of the populations lives with their "we know best" mantra and secondly it is an attempt to divert attention away from the fact that their incompetence is causing the deaths of large numbers of the population in the NHS whilst creating an entire generation of illiterate & innumerate replacements for the dead with little or no hope of success who will forever vote labour because they are poor, not realising that they are poor because they and their parents & grandparents vote labour. This is social engineering at its worst as it supplies no hope for the future other than becoming a socialist functionary.[/p][/quote]Oh right. banning ecigs will create 'an entire generation of illiterate and innumerate replacements for the dead with little or no hope of success who will forever vote Labour because they are poor'. Excuse me, I haven't quite stopped laughing yet so can't really finish this post properly. I'll come back to you lol. endthelies
  • Score: 1

3:13pm Wed 2 Apr 14

Crossbenchtory says...

DDDog1 wrote:
You can't honestly believe anything that is vaporised and breathed deep into the lungs is not doing any harm to you can you Dragonmum?
Well quick, we must ban the use of oxygen, one of the deadliest substances known.
[quote][p][bold]DDDog1[/bold] wrote: You can't honestly believe anything that is vaporised and breathed deep into the lungs is not doing any harm to you can you Dragonmum?[/p][/quote]Well quick, we must ban the use of oxygen, one of the deadliest substances known. Crossbenchtory
  • Score: 3

3:16pm Wed 2 Apr 14

Crossbenchtory says...

endthelies wrote:
Crossbenchtory wrote:
endthelies wrote:
Why stop at E cigarettes. Ban Greggs for selling pastries (obesity) supermarkets for selling bread, cakes etc (obesity), ban the corner shops for selling chocolate, ban wetherspoons for selling alcohol. Absolutely ridiculous. e cigs are not harmful to folk so why ban them. I wonder is it because the government are not making money out of e cigs like they do out of tobacco? Just a thought.
Being that, thankfully, the Welsh Windfarm does not raise taxes of any kind, being as it is satisfied with merely misappropriating money from the tax payer via Westminster, it is unlikely that their motivation is monetary.

I would submit that the reasons are far more insidious, firstly increasing their control over every aspect of the populations lives with their "we know best" mantra and secondly it is an attempt to divert attention away from the fact that their incompetence is causing the deaths of large numbers of the population in the NHS whilst creating an entire generation of illiterate & innumerate replacements for the dead with little or no hope of success who will forever vote labour because they are poor, not realising that they are poor because they and their parents & grandparents vote labour.

This is social engineering at its worst as it supplies no hope for the future other than becoming a socialist functionary.
Oh right. banning ecigs will create 'an entire generation of illiterate and innumerate replacements for the dead with little or no hope of success who will forever vote Labour because they are poor'. Excuse me, I haven't quite stopped laughing yet so can't really finish this post properly. I'll come back to you lol.
Obviously you struggle to understand the English language, try reading my post slowly whilst at the same time engaging the grey, gelatinous substance you keep in your head. These simple steps may assist with your comprehension.
[quote][p][bold]endthelies[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Crossbenchtory[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]endthelies[/bold] wrote: Why stop at E cigarettes. Ban Greggs for selling pastries (obesity) supermarkets for selling bread, cakes etc (obesity), ban the corner shops for selling chocolate, ban wetherspoons for selling alcohol. Absolutely ridiculous. e cigs are not harmful to folk so why ban them. I wonder is it because the government are not making money out of e cigs like they do out of tobacco? Just a thought.[/p][/quote]Being that, thankfully, the Welsh Windfarm does not raise taxes of any kind, being as it is satisfied with merely misappropriating money from the tax payer via Westminster, it is unlikely that their motivation is monetary. I would submit that the reasons are far more insidious, firstly increasing their control over every aspect of the populations lives with their "we know best" mantra and secondly it is an attempt to divert attention away from the fact that their incompetence is causing the deaths of large numbers of the population in the NHS whilst creating an entire generation of illiterate & innumerate replacements for the dead with little or no hope of success who will forever vote labour because they are poor, not realising that they are poor because they and their parents & grandparents vote labour. This is social engineering at its worst as it supplies no hope for the future other than becoming a socialist functionary.[/p][/quote]Oh right. banning ecigs will create 'an entire generation of illiterate and innumerate replacements for the dead with little or no hope of success who will forever vote Labour because they are poor'. Excuse me, I haven't quite stopped laughing yet so can't really finish this post properly. I'll come back to you lol.[/p][/quote]Obviously you struggle to understand the English language, try reading my post slowly whilst at the same time engaging the grey, gelatinous substance you keep in your head. These simple steps may assist with your comprehension. Crossbenchtory
  • Score: -5

3:24pm Wed 2 Apr 14

endthelies says...

Crossbenchtory wrote:
endthelies wrote:
Crossbenchtory wrote:
endthelies wrote:
Why stop at E cigarettes. Ban Greggs for selling pastries (obesity) supermarkets for selling bread, cakes etc (obesity), ban the corner shops for selling chocolate, ban wetherspoons for selling alcohol. Absolutely ridiculous. e cigs are not harmful to folk so why ban them. I wonder is it because the government are not making money out of e cigs like they do out of tobacco? Just a thought.
Being that, thankfully, the Welsh Windfarm does not raise taxes of any kind, being as it is satisfied with merely misappropriating money from the tax payer via Westminster, it is unlikely that their motivation is monetary.

I would submit that the reasons are far more insidious, firstly increasing their control over every aspect of the populations lives with their "we know best" mantra and secondly it is an attempt to divert attention away from the fact that their incompetence is causing the deaths of large numbers of the population in the NHS whilst creating an entire generation of illiterate & innumerate replacements for the dead with little or no hope of success who will forever vote labour because they are poor, not realising that they are poor because they and their parents & grandparents vote labour.

This is social engineering at its worst as it supplies no hope for the future other than becoming a socialist functionary.
Oh right. banning ecigs will create 'an entire generation of illiterate and innumerate replacements for the dead with little or no hope of success who will forever vote Labour because they are poor'. Excuse me, I haven't quite stopped laughing yet so can't really finish this post properly. I'll come back to you lol.
Obviously you struggle to understand the English language, try reading my post slowly whilst at the same time engaging the grey, gelatinous substance you keep in your head. These simple steps may assist with your comprehension.
ooh now know need to get cross really. Believe you me, I know I'm a lot brighter than some folk on here. Anyway, back to your post. That's what you said and I'm still having a giggle over it.
[quote][p][bold]Crossbenchtory[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]endthelies[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Crossbenchtory[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]endthelies[/bold] wrote: Why stop at E cigarettes. Ban Greggs for selling pastries (obesity) supermarkets for selling bread, cakes etc (obesity), ban the corner shops for selling chocolate, ban wetherspoons for selling alcohol. Absolutely ridiculous. e cigs are not harmful to folk so why ban them. I wonder is it because the government are not making money out of e cigs like they do out of tobacco? Just a thought.[/p][/quote]Being that, thankfully, the Welsh Windfarm does not raise taxes of any kind, being as it is satisfied with merely misappropriating money from the tax payer via Westminster, it is unlikely that their motivation is monetary. I would submit that the reasons are far more insidious, firstly increasing their control over every aspect of the populations lives with their "we know best" mantra and secondly it is an attempt to divert attention away from the fact that their incompetence is causing the deaths of large numbers of the population in the NHS whilst creating an entire generation of illiterate & innumerate replacements for the dead with little or no hope of success who will forever vote labour because they are poor, not realising that they are poor because they and their parents & grandparents vote labour. This is social engineering at its worst as it supplies no hope for the future other than becoming a socialist functionary.[/p][/quote]Oh right. banning ecigs will create 'an entire generation of illiterate and innumerate replacements for the dead with little or no hope of success who will forever vote Labour because they are poor'. Excuse me, I haven't quite stopped laughing yet so can't really finish this post properly. I'll come back to you lol.[/p][/quote]Obviously you struggle to understand the English language, try reading my post slowly whilst at the same time engaging the grey, gelatinous substance you keep in your head. These simple steps may assist with your comprehension.[/p][/quote]ooh now know need to get cross really. Believe you me, I know I'm a lot brighter than some folk on here. Anyway, back to your post. That's what you said and I'm still having a giggle over it. endthelies
  • Score: -6

3:41pm Wed 2 Apr 14

Crossbenchtory says...

endthelies wrote:
Crossbenchtory wrote:
endthelies wrote:
Crossbenchtory wrote:
endthelies wrote:
Why stop at E cigarettes. Ban Greggs for selling pastries (obesity) supermarkets for selling bread, cakes etc (obesity), ban the corner shops for selling chocolate, ban wetherspoons for selling alcohol. Absolutely ridiculous. e cigs are not harmful to folk so why ban them. I wonder is it because the government are not making money out of e cigs like they do out of tobacco? Just a thought.
Being that, thankfully, the Welsh Windfarm does not raise taxes of any kind, being as it is satisfied with merely misappropriating money from the tax payer via Westminster, it is unlikely that their motivation is monetary.

I would submit that the reasons are far more insidious, firstly increasing their control over every aspect of the populations lives with their "we know best" mantra and secondly it is an attempt to divert attention away from the fact that their incompetence is causing the deaths of large numbers of the population in the NHS whilst creating an entire generation of illiterate & innumerate replacements for the dead with little or no hope of success who will forever vote labour because they are poor, not realising that they are poor because they and their parents & grandparents vote labour.

This is social engineering at its worst as it supplies no hope for the future other than becoming a socialist functionary.
Oh right. banning ecigs will create 'an entire generation of illiterate and innumerate replacements for the dead with little or no hope of success who will forever vote Labour because they are poor'. Excuse me, I haven't quite stopped laughing yet so can't really finish this post properly. I'll come back to you lol.
Obviously you struggle to understand the English language, try reading my post slowly whilst at the same time engaging the grey, gelatinous substance you keep in your head. These simple steps may assist with your comprehension.
ooh now know need to get cross really. Believe you me, I know I'm a lot brighter than some folk on here. Anyway, back to your post. That's what you said and I'm still having a giggle over it.
Really, would you like to try again or even explain to me how

"... an attempt to divert attention away from the fact that their incompetence ..."

is the same as "... will cause ..."

I know the left like to ignore facts and truth but really, there does come a point when telling an outright lie about what someone has said, when the actual quote is directly above the accusation, is a little bit silly.

Maybe you should try Janet & John books to improve your comprehension skills.
[quote][p][bold]endthelies[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Crossbenchtory[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]endthelies[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Crossbenchtory[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]endthelies[/bold] wrote: Why stop at E cigarettes. Ban Greggs for selling pastries (obesity) supermarkets for selling bread, cakes etc (obesity), ban the corner shops for selling chocolate, ban wetherspoons for selling alcohol. Absolutely ridiculous. e cigs are not harmful to folk so why ban them. I wonder is it because the government are not making money out of e cigs like they do out of tobacco? Just a thought.[/p][/quote]Being that, thankfully, the Welsh Windfarm does not raise taxes of any kind, being as it is satisfied with merely misappropriating money from the tax payer via Westminster, it is unlikely that their motivation is monetary. I would submit that the reasons are far more insidious, firstly increasing their control over every aspect of the populations lives with their "we know best" mantra and secondly it is an attempt to divert attention away from the fact that their incompetence is causing the deaths of large numbers of the population in the NHS whilst creating an entire generation of illiterate & innumerate replacements for the dead with little or no hope of success who will forever vote labour because they are poor, not realising that they are poor because they and their parents & grandparents vote labour. This is social engineering at its worst as it supplies no hope for the future other than becoming a socialist functionary.[/p][/quote]Oh right. banning ecigs will create 'an entire generation of illiterate and innumerate replacements for the dead with little or no hope of success who will forever vote Labour because they are poor'. Excuse me, I haven't quite stopped laughing yet so can't really finish this post properly. I'll come back to you lol.[/p][/quote]Obviously you struggle to understand the English language, try reading my post slowly whilst at the same time engaging the grey, gelatinous substance you keep in your head. These simple steps may assist with your comprehension.[/p][/quote]ooh now know need to get cross really. Believe you me, I know I'm a lot brighter than some folk on here. Anyway, back to your post. That's what you said and I'm still having a giggle over it.[/p][/quote]Really, would you like to try again or even explain to me how "... an attempt to divert attention away from the fact that their incompetence ..." is the same as "... will cause ..." I know the left like to ignore facts and truth but really, there does come a point when telling an outright lie about what someone has said, when the actual quote is directly above the accusation, is a little bit silly. Maybe you should try Janet & John books to improve your comprehension skills. Crossbenchtory
  • Score: -3

3:43pm Wed 2 Apr 14

Boadacia! says...

Strange with all these reports of the danger of e-cigs how thousands will testify to the improved, breathing and general health, since using them instead of burning the weed?

The NHS offer Nicorette and others that still cost almost as much a week to buy! (Nothing to do with profit then?)

Many claimed tests are by those paid by the very ones panicking they will lose out on the massive extortion currently operating flogging their alternatives poisons to the chimps.

If one searches for proper laboratory conditions testing on-line, the scaremongering and pure misinformation metered out by pharma' and tobacco interests lobbying bent MP's, MEP's and others they pay will become evident.

Of course we all know the politicians would never sell their grandmother's teeth, to retain power and control, do we not?

Do people really believe thousands dying from smoking matter to them more than money?
Strange with all these reports of the danger of e-cigs how thousands will testify to the improved, breathing and general health, since using them instead of burning the weed? The NHS offer Nicorette and others that still cost almost as much a week to buy! (Nothing to do with profit then?) Many claimed tests are by those paid by the very ones panicking they will lose out on the massive extortion currently operating flogging their alternatives poisons to the chimps. If one searches for proper laboratory conditions testing on-line, the scaremongering and pure misinformation metered out by pharma' and tobacco interests lobbying bent MP's, MEP's and others they pay will become evident. Of course we all know the politicians would never sell their grandmother's teeth, to retain power and control, do we not? Do people really believe thousands dying from smoking matter to them more than money? Boadacia!
  • Score: 7

3:44pm Wed 2 Apr 14

-trigg- says...

DDDog1 wrote:
You can't honestly believe anything that is vaporised and breathed deep into the lungs is not doing any harm to you can you Dragonmum?
You mean like diesel fumes, air fresheners, body sprays, perfumes, sand from the sahara, the steam from your morning coffee?

There will always be trace particles in the air that you breathe, some more harmful than others. Surely the bottom line has to be whether you would prefer breathing in tobacco smoke, with the long list of known toxins that contains, or e-cig vapour, which doesn't contain any of these toxins.
[quote][p][bold]DDDog1[/bold] wrote: You can't honestly believe anything that is vaporised and breathed deep into the lungs is not doing any harm to you can you Dragonmum?[/p][/quote]You mean like diesel fumes, air fresheners, body sprays, perfumes, sand from the sahara, the steam from your morning coffee? There will always be trace particles in the air that you breathe, some more harmful than others. Surely the bottom line has to be whether you would prefer breathing in tobacco smoke, with the long list of known toxins that contains, or e-cig vapour, which doesn't contain any of these toxins. -trigg-
  • Score: 15

3:52pm Wed 2 Apr 14

Billybong41 says...

Forget about banning E Cigs in public , what they REALLY need to look into is banning the use of cheap perfume in public.

I was in a store today and had to miss a few isles out and looped back later as there was a woman there who was drenched in some toxic chemical so strong it took my breath away and I actually started coughing , I'm not a smoker but I'd prefer to inhale someone's stale smoke over that stuff.
Forget about banning E Cigs in public , what they REALLY need to look into is banning the use of cheap perfume in public. I was in a store today and had to miss a few isles out and looped back later as there was a woman there who was drenched in some toxic chemical so strong it took my breath away and I actually started coughing , I'm not a smoker but I'd prefer to inhale someone's stale smoke over that stuff. Billybong41
  • Score: 13

3:54pm Wed 2 Apr 14

peckylecky says...

How about the assembly concentrating on creating decent paying jobs then people would not have to drown their sorrows or drag on a cigarette to deal with the stress of daily life. Its just another way of running peoples lives and I am sick of it.
How about the assembly concentrating on creating decent paying jobs then people would not have to drown their sorrows or drag on a cigarette to deal with the stress of daily life. Its just another way of running peoples lives and I am sick of it. peckylecky
  • Score: 15

3:55pm Wed 2 Apr 14

endthelies says...

Crossbenchtory wrote:
endthelies wrote:
Crossbenchtory wrote:
endthelies wrote:
Crossbenchtory wrote:
endthelies wrote:
Why stop at E cigarettes. Ban Greggs for selling pastries (obesity) supermarkets for selling bread, cakes etc (obesity), ban the corner shops for selling chocolate, ban wetherspoons for selling alcohol. Absolutely ridiculous. e cigs are not harmful to folk so why ban them. I wonder is it because the government are not making money out of e cigs like they do out of tobacco? Just a thought.
Being that, thankfully, the Welsh Windfarm does not raise taxes of any kind, being as it is satisfied with merely misappropriating money from the tax payer via Westminster, it is unlikely that their motivation is monetary.

I would submit that the reasons are far more insidious, firstly increasing their control over every aspect of the populations lives with their "we know best" mantra and secondly it is an attempt to divert attention away from the fact that their incompetence is causing the deaths of large numbers of the population in the NHS whilst creating an entire generation of illiterate & innumerate replacements for the dead with little or no hope of success who will forever vote labour because they are poor, not realising that they are poor because they and their parents & grandparents vote labour.

This is social engineering at its worst as it supplies no hope for the future other than becoming a socialist functionary.
Oh right. banning ecigs will create 'an entire generation of illiterate and innumerate replacements for the dead with little or no hope of success who will forever vote Labour because they are poor'. Excuse me, I haven't quite stopped laughing yet so can't really finish this post properly. I'll come back to you lol.
Obviously you struggle to understand the English language, try reading my post slowly whilst at the same time engaging the grey, gelatinous substance you keep in your head. These simple steps may assist with your comprehension.
ooh now know need to get cross really. Believe you me, I know I'm a lot brighter than some folk on here. Anyway, back to your post. That's what you said and I'm still having a giggle over it.
Really, would you like to try again or even explain to me how

"... an attempt to divert attention away from the fact that their incompetence ..."

is the same as "... will cause ..."

I know the left like to ignore facts and truth but really, there does come a point when telling an outright lie about what someone has said, when the actual quote is directly above the accusation, is a little bit silly.

Maybe you should try Janet & John books to improve your comprehension skills.
Maybe you're right. But at least I'm not abusive. Talking about facts and truth. Could you point out to me the facts and truth in your post because I haven't found any evidence of it.
[quote][p][bold]Crossbenchtory[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]endthelies[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Crossbenchtory[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]endthelies[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Crossbenchtory[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]endthelies[/bold] wrote: Why stop at E cigarettes. Ban Greggs for selling pastries (obesity) supermarkets for selling bread, cakes etc (obesity), ban the corner shops for selling chocolate, ban wetherspoons for selling alcohol. Absolutely ridiculous. e cigs are not harmful to folk so why ban them. I wonder is it because the government are not making money out of e cigs like they do out of tobacco? Just a thought.[/p][/quote]Being that, thankfully, the Welsh Windfarm does not raise taxes of any kind, being as it is satisfied with merely misappropriating money from the tax payer via Westminster, it is unlikely that their motivation is monetary. I would submit that the reasons are far more insidious, firstly increasing their control over every aspect of the populations lives with their "we know best" mantra and secondly it is an attempt to divert attention away from the fact that their incompetence is causing the deaths of large numbers of the population in the NHS whilst creating an entire generation of illiterate & innumerate replacements for the dead with little or no hope of success who will forever vote labour because they are poor, not realising that they are poor because they and their parents & grandparents vote labour. This is social engineering at its worst as it supplies no hope for the future other than becoming a socialist functionary.[/p][/quote]Oh right. banning ecigs will create 'an entire generation of illiterate and innumerate replacements for the dead with little or no hope of success who will forever vote Labour because they are poor'. Excuse me, I haven't quite stopped laughing yet so can't really finish this post properly. I'll come back to you lol.[/p][/quote]Obviously you struggle to understand the English language, try reading my post slowly whilst at the same time engaging the grey, gelatinous substance you keep in your head. These simple steps may assist with your comprehension.[/p][/quote]ooh now know need to get cross really. Believe you me, I know I'm a lot brighter than some folk on here. Anyway, back to your post. That's what you said and I'm still having a giggle over it.[/p][/quote]Really, would you like to try again or even explain to me how "... an attempt to divert attention away from the fact that their incompetence ..." is the same as "... will cause ..." I know the left like to ignore facts and truth but really, there does come a point when telling an outright lie about what someone has said, when the actual quote is directly above the accusation, is a little bit silly. Maybe you should try Janet & John books to improve your comprehension skills.[/p][/quote]Maybe you're right. But at least I'm not abusive. Talking about facts and truth. Could you point out to me the facts and truth in your post because I haven't found any evidence of it. endthelies
  • Score: -3

3:59pm Wed 2 Apr 14

Dragonmum says...

DDDog1 wrote:
You can't honestly believe anything that is vaporised and breathed deep into the lungs is not doing any harm to you can you Dragonmum?
I wouldn't dismiss anything that was PROVEN to be harmful, but I hang over steaming kettles, pots and pans and I go out in fog without thinking twice.
I have also researched and used e-cigs for 4 years - they have resulted in my not having to inhale steroids deeply into my lungs because my asthma has all but disappeared. Go to e-cigarette-research
.com which provides ample evidence that the electronic cigarette is 99% safer than its tobacco counterpart - isn't that what is under consideration? Or would you and Stan Glantz prefer to see people driven back to something which, it is alleged, kills 50% of its users?
[quote][p][bold]DDDog1[/bold] wrote: You can't honestly believe anything that is vaporised and breathed deep into the lungs is not doing any harm to you can you Dragonmum?[/p][/quote]I wouldn't dismiss anything that was PROVEN to be harmful, but I hang over steaming kettles, pots and pans and I go out in fog without thinking twice. I have also researched and used e-cigs for 4 years - they have resulted in my not having to inhale steroids deeply into my lungs because my asthma has all but disappeared. Go to e-cigarette-research .com which provides ample evidence that the electronic cigarette is 99% safer than its tobacco counterpart - isn't that what is under consideration? Or would you and Stan Glantz prefer to see people driven back to something which, it is alleged, kills 50% of its users? Dragonmum
  • Score: 9

4:13pm Wed 2 Apr 14

sillybilly43 says...

Oh I despair. This Mafia mob havn,t a clue. Crumbling educational standards, collapsing Health Service..THOSE are beyond their feeble capabilities,so the people trying to kick the smoking habit, will find that they will get no encouragement from this lot of clowns. Vote Labour ever again,?? Take me away if I even think of it will you?????
Oh I despair. This Mafia mob havn,t a clue. Crumbling educational standards, collapsing Health Service..THOSE are beyond their feeble capabilities,so the people trying to kick the smoking habit, will find that they will get no encouragement from this lot of clowns. Vote Labour ever again,?? Take me away if I even think of it will you????? sillybilly43
  • Score: 13

4:18pm Wed 2 Apr 14

sillybilly43 says...

Llanmartinangel wrote:
Dafydd y Garreg Wen wrote:
Third rate politicians, third rate ideas, third world country. Welcome to Wales.
Wait til they get hold of income tax. Then you'll really see how bad they are.
Oh God,,,,,Doesn,t bear thinking of.
[quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dafydd y Garreg Wen[/bold] wrote: Third rate politicians, third rate ideas, third world country. Welcome to Wales.[/p][/quote]Wait til they get hold of income tax. Then you'll really see how bad they are.[/p][/quote]Oh God,,,,,Doesn,t bear thinking of. sillybilly43
  • Score: 10

4:28pm Wed 2 Apr 14

-trigg- says...

Never mind free prescriptions, if the WAG really wanted to do something to improve the average health of people in Wales they could issue every single smoker with free e-cigs and refills.

The immediate and cumulative health benefits from all these people suddenly not smoking any more would more than pay for themselves in terms of reduced hospital visits and NHS treatments. Not just for a few months but for years and indeed decades to come.
Never mind free prescriptions, if the WAG really wanted to do something to improve the average health of people in Wales they could issue every single smoker with free e-cigs and refills. The immediate and cumulative health benefits from all these people suddenly not smoking any more would more than pay for themselves in terms of reduced hospital visits and NHS treatments. Not just for a few months but for years and indeed decades to come. -trigg-
  • Score: 14

4:39pm Wed 2 Apr 14

Crossbenchtory says...

sillybilly43 wrote:
Oh I despair. This Mafia mob havn,t a clue. Crumbling educational standards, collapsing Health Service..THOSE are beyond their feeble capabilities,so the people trying to kick the smoking habit, will find that they will get no encouragement from this lot of clowns. Vote Labour ever again,?? Take me away if I even think of it will you?????
But look on the bright side, we'll have more public toilets.

According to comrade Drakeford, last week, this will assist the elderly to take their pills.
[quote][p][bold]sillybilly43[/bold] wrote: Oh I despair. This Mafia mob havn,t a clue. Crumbling educational standards, collapsing Health Service..THOSE are beyond their feeble capabilities,so the people trying to kick the smoking habit, will find that they will get no encouragement from this lot of clowns. Vote Labour ever again,?? Take me away if I even think of it will you?????[/p][/quote]But look on the bright side, we'll have more public toilets. According to comrade Drakeford, last week, this will assist the elderly to take their pills. Crossbenchtory
  • Score: -2

5:05pm Wed 2 Apr 14

CynicalAndJaded says...

The abuse of alcohol (particularly among younger people) is the biggest scourge on this country.
I say increase the age at which alcohol can be purchased to at least 25 and ID anyone who looks under 30. They do this in other countries and it works. Any vendor breaching this should have their licence revoked completely, as well as potential imprisonment.

As for tobacco, just ban the stuff completely. It serves no purpose other than to pollute the environment and bring poor health.

Both of the above are an immense drain on the health service. It's also about time the country woke up to some harsh realities and understood why the UK is one of the unhealthiest places to live in the western world.
The abuse of alcohol (particularly among younger people) is the biggest scourge on this country. I say increase the age at which alcohol can be purchased to at least 25 and ID anyone who looks under 30. They do this in other countries and it works. Any vendor breaching this should have their licence revoked completely, as well as potential imprisonment. As for tobacco, just ban the stuff completely. It serves no purpose other than to pollute the environment and bring poor health. Both of the above are an immense drain on the health service. It's also about time the country woke up to some harsh realities and understood why the UK is one of the unhealthiest places to live in the western world. CynicalAndJaded
  • Score: -6

5:31pm Wed 2 Apr 14

davidcp says...

I'll admit I was on the side of the leave it alones this morning, until the BBC interviewed an e-cig seller. He was okay, I suppose, but when I saw the sign behind his head in his shop, I changed my mind.

It said, "Stylish and fashionable". In other words, "use these and be cool, don't and be un-cool." Wrong message!

That and the fact that a girl I know who uses one looks like she's smoking a pipe!
I'll admit I was on the side of the leave it alones this morning, until the BBC interviewed an e-cig seller. He was okay, I suppose, but when I saw the sign behind his head in his shop, I changed my mind. It said, "Stylish and fashionable". In other words, "use these and be cool, don't and be un-cool." Wrong message! That and the fact that a girl I know who uses one looks like she's smoking a pipe! davidcp
  • Score: -9

5:55pm Wed 2 Apr 14

JanJenkins says...

These jobs worth county-hall and union rejects are getting on my nerves. What makes them think that they can control everything do,and say.,
Its really getting beyond, Where do they come up with these stupid ideas.? There are more important things to get sorted. As getting some permanent employment into the South Wales area, other than telesales in Cardiff.
Try sorting out the Welsh NHS.staff coverage. Making the NHS 24 hour service not 9-5 Mon-Fri.. as it is now, with Labs, and xray departments only open during hours of daylight, Or filling in some of the potholes in the roads before some body is killed, no use filling in a hole in the M4 if you don't know what caused it.
These jobs worth county-hall and union rejects are getting on my nerves. What makes them think that they can control everything do,and say., Its really getting beyond, Where do they come up with these stupid ideas.? There are more important things to get sorted. As getting some permanent employment into the South Wales area, other than telesales in Cardiff. Try sorting out the Welsh NHS.staff coverage. Making the NHS 24 hour service not 9-5 Mon-Fri.. as it is now, with Labs, and xray departments only open during hours of daylight, Or filling in some of the potholes in the roads before some body is killed, no use filling in a hole in the M4 if you don't know what caused it. JanJenkins
  • Score: 10

6:11pm Wed 2 Apr 14

DDDog1 says...

Dragonmum wrote:
DDDog1 wrote:
You can't honestly believe anything that is vaporised and breathed deep into the lungs is not doing any harm to you can you Dragonmum?
I wouldn't dismiss anything that was PROVEN to be harmful, but I hang over steaming kettles, pots and pans and I go out in fog without thinking twice.
I have also researched and used e-cigs for 4 years - they have resulted in my not having to inhale steroids deeply into my lungs because my asthma has all but disappeared. Go to e-cigarette-research

.com which provides ample evidence that the electronic cigarette is 99% safer than its tobacco counterpart - isn't that what is under consideration? Or would you and Stan Glantz prefer to see people driven back to something which, it is alleged, kills 50% of its users?
Why smoke at all,especially if you have asthma.
[quote][p][bold]Dragonmum[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DDDog1[/bold] wrote: You can't honestly believe anything that is vaporised and breathed deep into the lungs is not doing any harm to you can you Dragonmum?[/p][/quote]I wouldn't dismiss anything that was PROVEN to be harmful, but I hang over steaming kettles, pots and pans and I go out in fog without thinking twice. I have also researched and used e-cigs for 4 years - they have resulted in my not having to inhale steroids deeply into my lungs because my asthma has all but disappeared. Go to e-cigarette-research .com which provides ample evidence that the electronic cigarette is 99% safer than its tobacco counterpart - isn't that what is under consideration? Or would you and Stan Glantz prefer to see people driven back to something which, it is alleged, kills 50% of its users?[/p][/quote]Why smoke at all,especially if you have asthma. DDDog1
  • Score: -2

6:17pm Wed 2 Apr 14

DDDog1 says...

brainyfurball wrote:
This was published on 20th March by no less than The Royal College of Physicians.

"Despite the controversies, it is clear that e-cigarettes are far less hazardous than is tobacco. With more than a million UK smokers using them to help to cut down or quit smoking, they are proving to be valuable harm reduction and cessation products and could make a substantial contribution to reducing the burden of death, disability and poverty currently caused by tobacco smoking. Health professionals should embrace this potential by encouraging smokers, particularly those disinclined to use licensed nicotine replacement therapies, to try them, and, when possible, to do so in conjunction with existing NHS smoking cessation and harm reduction support. E-cigarettes will save lives, and we should support their use."

http://www.rcplondon

.ac.uk/commentary/wh

at-you-need-know-abo

ut-electronic-cigare

ttes
What about companies who are making them trendy and more desirable to kids,I've seen some chocolate and strawberry flavoured ones advertised and because they don't actually contain tobacco they don't need to be regulated,surely this could lead to some taking up the habit
[quote][p][bold]brainyfurball[/bold] wrote: This was published on 20th March by no less than The Royal College of Physicians. "Despite the controversies, it is clear that e-cigarettes are far less hazardous than is tobacco. With more than a million UK smokers using them to help to cut down or quit smoking, they are proving to be valuable harm reduction and cessation products and could make a substantial contribution to reducing the burden of death, disability and poverty currently caused by tobacco smoking. Health professionals should embrace this potential by encouraging smokers, particularly those disinclined to use licensed nicotine replacement therapies, to try them, and, when possible, to do so in conjunction with existing NHS smoking cessation and harm reduction support. E-cigarettes will save lives, and we should support their use." http://www.rcplondon .ac.uk/commentary/wh at-you-need-know-abo ut-electronic-cigare ttes[/p][/quote]What about companies who are making them trendy and more desirable to kids,I've seen some chocolate and strawberry flavoured ones advertised and because they don't actually contain tobacco they don't need to be regulated,surely this could lead to some taking up the habit DDDog1
  • Score: -6

6:27pm Wed 2 Apr 14

Dragonmum says...

DDDog1 wrote:
Dragonmum wrote:
DDDog1 wrote:
You can't honestly believe anything that is vaporised and breathed deep into the lungs is not doing any harm to you can you Dragonmum?
I wouldn't dismiss anything that was PROVEN to be harmful, but I hang over steaming kettles, pots and pans and I go out in fog without thinking twice.
I have also researched and used e-cigs for 4 years - they have resulted in my not having to inhale steroids deeply into my lungs because my asthma has all but disappeared. Go to e-cigarette-research


.com which provides ample evidence that the electronic cigarette is 99% safer than its tobacco counterpart - isn't that what is under consideration? Or would you and Stan Glantz prefer to see people driven back to something which, it is alleged, kills 50% of its users?
Why smoke at all,especially if you have asthma.
I am not smoking - or is that a bit too complicated for you? I'm really beginning to see why you're a Stan Fan. There is no smoke without fire so there is no smoke from and e-cig - OK? In the days before antibiotics the treatment for chest complaints was a steam inhalation - with me so far?
Why do you drink tea or coffee or wine - or are you so politically correct and poker-backed that you live on bread and water? I VAPE because (a) I enjoy it and (b) It has proved vastly more beneficial to my health than prescription drugs which are, quite incidentally, the third biggest killer after cancer and heart disease. I hope I have clarified the position.
[quote][p][bold]DDDog1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dragonmum[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DDDog1[/bold] wrote: You can't honestly believe anything that is vaporised and breathed deep into the lungs is not doing any harm to you can you Dragonmum?[/p][/quote]I wouldn't dismiss anything that was PROVEN to be harmful, but I hang over steaming kettles, pots and pans and I go out in fog without thinking twice. I have also researched and used e-cigs for 4 years - they have resulted in my not having to inhale steroids deeply into my lungs because my asthma has all but disappeared. Go to e-cigarette-research .com which provides ample evidence that the electronic cigarette is 99% safer than its tobacco counterpart - isn't that what is under consideration? Or would you and Stan Glantz prefer to see people driven back to something which, it is alleged, kills 50% of its users?[/p][/quote]Why smoke at all,especially if you have asthma.[/p][/quote]I am not smoking - or is that a bit too complicated for you? I'm really beginning to see why you're a Stan Fan. There is no smoke without fire so there is no smoke from and e-cig - OK? In the days before antibiotics the treatment for chest complaints was a steam inhalation - with me so far? Why do you drink tea or coffee or wine - or are you so politically correct and poker-backed that you live on bread and water? I VAPE because (a) I enjoy it and (b) It has proved vastly more beneficial to my health than prescription drugs which are, quite incidentally, the third biggest killer after cancer and heart disease. I hope I have clarified the position. Dragonmum
  • Score: 13

6:31pm Wed 2 Apr 14

hawkzx9r says...

Crossbenchtory wrote:
The proposed ban on e-cigarettes has absolutely nothing to do with public health or the normalisation of smoking. It purely about the socialists desire to control every aspect of our lives.

I smoked 30 a day for a large portion of my life and after years of trying to quit I have not had a cigarette now for nearly 2 years, I am healthier, happier, have more money in my pocket, I no longer smell of stale cigarette smoke and I can smell & taste my food.

So how have I finally broken the habit which caused damage to my health and would have ultimately killed me, simple, I now use an e-cigarette. Yes, I am still addicted to nicotine (a fact which does not particularly bother me) but it's use no longer harms my health or the health of those around me.

If this proposal becomes law I would suggest a class action be taken against the WAG on the grounds that they are forcing people, who are essentially non smokers, to expose themselves to passive smoking and all the associated health risks.

As for minimum alcohol pricing, what a complete load of drivel. If you want to cut down on the amount of alcohol being consumed simply don't allow every second shop to hold an off licence. It isn't rocket science people.

Cut down the number of places alcohol can be purchased, make them predominantly on licence so people are drinking in a social setting where landlords, and older more experienced drinkers, are able to exercise some influence over the way and amount people drink. Landlords do not want trouble in their pubs as it attracts the attention of the police and let's face it, most landlords are a little bit iffey, not completely bent or criminal, but just a little iffey.

We, the British people, need to send a very succinct message to our politicians ...

"Just leave us alone to get on with our lives and stop trying to regulate and control everything we do, it's getting boring and more than a little bit irritating"
i totally agree with you,i have been on e-cigs for over a year now,after a 20 a day habit.this ban will drive people back to using tobbacco.i mean, we might as well,we'll smell of smoke and be out in all weathers again....maybe that's what they are hoping for...have they really lost that much revenue through lost tobbacco sales?and as for teenagers being drawn into smoking through e-cigs,what a joke..the only people who use e-cigs are former smokers trying to quit/cut down.i think the powers that be need to do some proper research,not just guesswork..i think an online petition against this action is in order...if wales gets to ban e-cigs,the rest of the country won't be far behind...
[quote][p][bold]Crossbenchtory[/bold] wrote: The proposed ban on e-cigarettes has absolutely nothing to do with public health or the normalisation of smoking. It purely about the socialists desire to control every aspect of our lives. I smoked 30 a day for a large portion of my life and after years of trying to quit I have not had a cigarette now for nearly 2 years, I am healthier, happier, have more money in my pocket, I no longer smell of stale cigarette smoke and I can smell & taste my food. So how have I finally broken the habit which caused damage to my health and would have ultimately killed me, simple, I now use an e-cigarette. Yes, I am still addicted to nicotine (a fact which does not particularly bother me) but it's use no longer harms my health or the health of those around me. If this proposal becomes law I would suggest a class action be taken against the WAG on the grounds that they are forcing people, who are essentially non smokers, to expose themselves to passive smoking and all the associated health risks. As for minimum alcohol pricing, what a complete load of drivel. If you want to cut down on the amount of alcohol being consumed simply don't allow every second shop to hold an off licence. It isn't rocket science people. Cut down the number of places alcohol can be purchased, make them predominantly on licence so people are drinking in a social setting where landlords, and older more experienced drinkers, are able to exercise some influence over the way and amount people drink. Landlords do not want trouble in their pubs as it attracts the attention of the police and let's face it, most landlords are a little bit iffey, not completely bent or criminal, but just a little iffey. We, the British people, need to send a very succinct message to our politicians ... "Just leave us alone to get on with our lives and stop trying to regulate and control everything we do, it's getting boring and more than a little bit irritating"[/p][/quote]i totally agree with you,i have been on e-cigs for over a year now,after a 20 a day habit.this ban will drive people back to using tobbacco.i mean, we might as well,we'll smell of smoke and be out in all weathers again....maybe that's what they are hoping for...have they really lost that much revenue through lost tobbacco sales?and as for teenagers being drawn into smoking through e-cigs,what a joke..the only people who use e-cigs are former smokers trying to quit/cut down.i think the powers that be need to do some proper research,not just guesswork..i think an online petition against this action is in order...if wales gets to ban e-cigs,the rest of the country won't be far behind... hawkzx9r
  • Score: 8

6:40pm Wed 2 Apr 14

endthelies says...

Crossbenchtory wrote:
The proposed ban on e-cigarettes has absolutely nothing to do with public health or the normalisation of smoking. It purely about the socialists desire to control every aspect of our lives.

I smoked 30 a day for a large portion of my life and after years of trying to quit I have not had a cigarette now for nearly 2 years, I am healthier, happier, have more money in my pocket, I no longer smell of stale cigarette smoke and I can smell & taste my food.

So how have I finally broken the habit which caused damage to my health and would have ultimately killed me, simple, I now use an e-cigarette. Yes, I am still addicted to nicotine (a fact which does not particularly bother me) but it's use no longer harms my health or the health of those around me.

If this proposal becomes law I would suggest a class action be taken against the WAG on the grounds that they are forcing people, who are essentially non smokers, to expose themselves to passive smoking and all the associated health risks.

As for minimum alcohol pricing, what a complete load of drivel. If you want to cut down on the amount of alcohol being consumed simply don't allow every second shop to hold an off licence. It isn't rocket science people.

Cut down the number of places alcohol can be purchased, make them predominantly on licence so people are drinking in a social setting where landlords, and older more experienced drinkers, are able to exercise some influence over the way and amount people drink. Landlords do not want trouble in their pubs as it attracts the attention of the police and let's face it, most landlords are a little bit iffey, not completely bent or criminal, but just a little iffey.

We, the British people, need to send a very succinct message to our politicians ...

"Just leave us alone to get on with our lives and stop trying to regulate and control everything we do, it's getting boring and more than a little bit irritating"
Now this comment I agree with :)
[quote][p][bold]Crossbenchtory[/bold] wrote: The proposed ban on e-cigarettes has absolutely nothing to do with public health or the normalisation of smoking. It purely about the socialists desire to control every aspect of our lives. I smoked 30 a day for a large portion of my life and after years of trying to quit I have not had a cigarette now for nearly 2 years, I am healthier, happier, have more money in my pocket, I no longer smell of stale cigarette smoke and I can smell & taste my food. So how have I finally broken the habit which caused damage to my health and would have ultimately killed me, simple, I now use an e-cigarette. Yes, I am still addicted to nicotine (a fact which does not particularly bother me) but it's use no longer harms my health or the health of those around me. If this proposal becomes law I would suggest a class action be taken against the WAG on the grounds that they are forcing people, who are essentially non smokers, to expose themselves to passive smoking and all the associated health risks. As for minimum alcohol pricing, what a complete load of drivel. If you want to cut down on the amount of alcohol being consumed simply don't allow every second shop to hold an off licence. It isn't rocket science people. Cut down the number of places alcohol can be purchased, make them predominantly on licence so people are drinking in a social setting where landlords, and older more experienced drinkers, are able to exercise some influence over the way and amount people drink. Landlords do not want trouble in their pubs as it attracts the attention of the police and let's face it, most landlords are a little bit iffey, not completely bent or criminal, but just a little iffey. We, the British people, need to send a very succinct message to our politicians ... "Just leave us alone to get on with our lives and stop trying to regulate and control everything we do, it's getting boring and more than a little bit irritating"[/p][/quote]Now this comment I agree with :) endthelies
  • Score: 6

7:54pm Wed 2 Apr 14

hawkzx9r says...

DDDog1 wrote:
brainyfurball wrote:
This was published on 20th March by no less than The Royal College of Physicians.

"Despite the controversies, it is clear that e-cigarettes are far less hazardous than is tobacco. With more than a million UK smokers using them to help to cut down or quit smoking, they are proving to be valuable harm reduction and cessation products and could make a substantial contribution to reducing the burden of death, disability and poverty currently caused by tobacco smoking. Health professionals should embrace this potential by encouraging smokers, particularly those disinclined to use licensed nicotine replacement therapies, to try them, and, when possible, to do so in conjunction with existing NHS smoking cessation and harm reduction support. E-cigarettes will save lives, and we should support their use."

http://www.rcplondon


.ac.uk/commentary/wh


at-you-need-know-abo


ut-electronic-cigare


ttes
What about companies who are making them trendy and more desirable to kids,I've seen some chocolate and strawberry flavoured ones advertised and because they don't actually contain tobacco they don't need to be regulated,surely this could lead to some taking up the habit
shisha/hukka pipes have been availiable in the uk for a very long time.(approx 1858 wikipedia) ..hukka tobbacco comes in lots of fruity/sweet flavours,vanilla,pin
eapple,strawberry..e
tc.....i don't know anyone who started smoking after trying banana tobacco from a shisha pipe...no e-cig contains tobbacco,only nicotine (which can be found in many plants,including potatoes) but even nicotine free e-liquid cannot be purchased by under 18's - the same rule as cigarettes...so if any under 18's are purchasing e-cigs then that would be down to the vendor ..plus the main reason for taking up the smoking habit is peer pressure,looking big in front of your mates....10 cigs and a box of matches makes you look a bit of a lad..a plastic tube with an led and a battery-not quite so macho..
[quote][p][bold]DDDog1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]brainyfurball[/bold] wrote: This was published on 20th March by no less than The Royal College of Physicians. "Despite the controversies, it is clear that e-cigarettes are far less hazardous than is tobacco. With more than a million UK smokers using them to help to cut down or quit smoking, they are proving to be valuable harm reduction and cessation products and could make a substantial contribution to reducing the burden of death, disability and poverty currently caused by tobacco smoking. Health professionals should embrace this potential by encouraging smokers, particularly those disinclined to use licensed nicotine replacement therapies, to try them, and, when possible, to do so in conjunction with existing NHS smoking cessation and harm reduction support. E-cigarettes will save lives, and we should support their use." http://www.rcplondon .ac.uk/commentary/wh at-you-need-know-abo ut-electronic-cigare ttes[/p][/quote]What about companies who are making them trendy and more desirable to kids,I've seen some chocolate and strawberry flavoured ones advertised and because they don't actually contain tobacco they don't need to be regulated,surely this could lead to some taking up the habit[/p][/quote]shisha/hukka pipes have been availiable in the uk for a very long time.(approx 1858 wikipedia) ..hukka tobbacco comes in lots of fruity/sweet flavours,vanilla,pin eapple,strawberry..e tc.....i don't know anyone who started smoking after trying banana tobacco from a shisha pipe...no e-cig contains tobbacco,only nicotine (which can be found in many plants,including potatoes) but even nicotine free e-liquid cannot be purchased by under 18's - the same rule as cigarettes...so if any under 18's are purchasing e-cigs then that would be down to the vendor ..plus the main reason for taking up the smoking habit is peer pressure,looking big in front of your mates....10 cigs and a box of matches makes you look a bit of a lad..a plastic tube with an led and a battery-not quite so macho.. hawkzx9r
  • Score: 3

9:01pm Wed 2 Apr 14

Dolieboy says...

So back to spliffs and home brew it is then!!!
So back to spliffs and home brew it is then!!! Dolieboy
  • Score: 7

9:22pm Wed 2 Apr 14

Casnewydd lad says...

I am a non smoker and work in the health care environment I don't see the point of theses being banned in public places
I am a non smoker and work in the health care environment I don't see the point of theses being banned in public places Casnewydd lad
  • Score: 11

9:47pm Wed 2 Apr 14

DDDog1 says...

Dragonmum wrote:
DDDog1 wrote:
Dragonmum wrote:
DDDog1 wrote:
You can't honestly believe anything that is vaporised and breathed deep into the lungs is not doing any harm to you can you Dragonmum?
I wouldn't dismiss anything that was PROVEN to be harmful, but I hang over steaming kettles, pots and pans and I go out in fog without thinking twice.
I have also researched and used e-cigs for 4 years - they have resulted in my not having to inhale steroids deeply into my lungs because my asthma has all but disappeared. Go to e-cigarette-research



.com which provides ample evidence that the electronic cigarette is 99% safer than its tobacco counterpart - isn't that what is under consideration? Or would you and Stan Glantz prefer to see people driven back to something which, it is alleged, kills 50% of its users?
Why smoke at all,especially if you have asthma.
I am not smoking - or is that a bit too complicated for you? I'm really beginning to see why you're a Stan Fan. There is no smoke without fire so there is no smoke from and e-cig - OK? In the days before antibiotics the treatment for chest complaints was a steam inhalation - with me so far?
Why do you drink tea or coffee or wine - or are you so politically correct and poker-backed that you live on bread and water? I VAPE because (a) I enjoy it and (b) It has proved vastly more beneficial to my health than prescription drugs which are, quite incidentally, the third biggest killer after cancer and heart disease. I hope I have clarified the position.
See if you can follow this,apart from dust,diesel smoke,petrol smoke and all the other nasty things we breathe in everyday ,sucking vaporized nicotine,tin and what other rubbish they contain into your body though no way as bad as cigarettes is still a dull and stupid thing to do,I expect a researched and smart arse reply but your denial doesn't wash with me.
[quote][p][bold]Dragonmum[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DDDog1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dragonmum[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DDDog1[/bold] wrote: You can't honestly believe anything that is vaporised and breathed deep into the lungs is not doing any harm to you can you Dragonmum?[/p][/quote]I wouldn't dismiss anything that was PROVEN to be harmful, but I hang over steaming kettles, pots and pans and I go out in fog without thinking twice. I have also researched and used e-cigs for 4 years - they have resulted in my not having to inhale steroids deeply into my lungs because my asthma has all but disappeared. Go to e-cigarette-research .com which provides ample evidence that the electronic cigarette is 99% safer than its tobacco counterpart - isn't that what is under consideration? Or would you and Stan Glantz prefer to see people driven back to something which, it is alleged, kills 50% of its users?[/p][/quote]Why smoke at all,especially if you have asthma.[/p][/quote]I am not smoking - or is that a bit too complicated for you? I'm really beginning to see why you're a Stan Fan. There is no smoke without fire so there is no smoke from and e-cig - OK? In the days before antibiotics the treatment for chest complaints was a steam inhalation - with me so far? Why do you drink tea or coffee or wine - or are you so politically correct and poker-backed that you live on bread and water? I VAPE because (a) I enjoy it and (b) It has proved vastly more beneficial to my health than prescription drugs which are, quite incidentally, the third biggest killer after cancer and heart disease. I hope I have clarified the position.[/p][/quote]See if you can follow this,apart from dust,diesel smoke,petrol smoke and all the other nasty things we breathe in everyday ,sucking vaporized nicotine,tin and what other rubbish they contain into your body though no way as bad as cigarettes is still a dull and stupid thing to do,I expect a researched and smart arse reply but your denial doesn't wash with me. DDDog1
  • Score: -4

10:41pm Wed 2 Apr 14

gingertom says...

Why was Mark drakeford et all at Welsh Rugby Union? What have they got to do with the Welsh NHS? Glorified county councillors these AM' s first they legislated on carrier bags now this balony.
Why was Mark drakeford et all at Welsh Rugby Union? What have they got to do with the Welsh NHS? Glorified county councillors these AM' s first they legislated on carrier bags now this balony. gingertom
  • Score: 10

10:54pm Wed 2 Apr 14

Dragonmum says...

DDDog1 wrote:
Dragonmum wrote:
DDDog1 wrote:
Dragonmum wrote:
DDDog1 wrote:
You can't honestly believe anything that is vaporised and breathed deep into the lungs is not doing any harm to you can you Dragonmum?
I wouldn't dismiss anything that was PROVEN to be harmful, but I hang over steaming kettles, pots and pans and I go out in fog without thinking twice.
I have also researched and used e-cigs for 4 years - they have resulted in my not having to inhale steroids deeply into my lungs because my asthma has all but disappeared. Go to e-cigarette-research




.com which provides ample evidence that the electronic cigarette is 99% safer than its tobacco counterpart - isn't that what is under consideration? Or would you and Stan Glantz prefer to see people driven back to something which, it is alleged, kills 50% of its users?
Why smoke at all,especially if you have asthma.
I am not smoking - or is that a bit too complicated for you? I'm really beginning to see why you're a Stan Fan. There is no smoke without fire so there is no smoke from and e-cig - OK? In the days before antibiotics the treatment for chest complaints was a steam inhalation - with me so far?
Why do you drink tea or coffee or wine - or are you so politically correct and poker-backed that you live on bread and water? I VAPE because (a) I enjoy it and (b) It has proved vastly more beneficial to my health than prescription drugs which are, quite incidentally, the third biggest killer after cancer and heart disease. I hope I have clarified the position.
See if you can follow this,apart from dust,diesel smoke,petrol smoke and all the other nasty things we breathe in everyday ,sucking vaporized nicotine,tin and what other rubbish they contain into your body though no way as bad as cigarettes is still a dull and stupid thing to do,I expect a researched and smart arse reply but your denial doesn't wash with me.
Do you see what you did there? "Though no way as bad as cigarettes" - your words - and the whole point of the electronic cigarette in a nutshell. I have no idea what the denial is to which you refer - what I do have is four years of improved health, the ability to continue using my recreational drug of choice without the attendant hazards and an unswerving determination to promote the e-cig wherever and whenever I can. I think I must disappoint you in your expectation of a "researched and smart arse" reply - that would be a really dull and stupid thing to waste my time on.
[quote][p][bold]DDDog1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dragonmum[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DDDog1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dragonmum[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DDDog1[/bold] wrote: You can't honestly believe anything that is vaporised and breathed deep into the lungs is not doing any harm to you can you Dragonmum?[/p][/quote]I wouldn't dismiss anything that was PROVEN to be harmful, but I hang over steaming kettles, pots and pans and I go out in fog without thinking twice. I have also researched and used e-cigs for 4 years - they have resulted in my not having to inhale steroids deeply into my lungs because my asthma has all but disappeared. Go to e-cigarette-research .com which provides ample evidence that the electronic cigarette is 99% safer than its tobacco counterpart - isn't that what is under consideration? Or would you and Stan Glantz prefer to see people driven back to something which, it is alleged, kills 50% of its users?[/p][/quote]Why smoke at all,especially if you have asthma.[/p][/quote]I am not smoking - or is that a bit too complicated for you? I'm really beginning to see why you're a Stan Fan. There is no smoke without fire so there is no smoke from and e-cig - OK? In the days before antibiotics the treatment for chest complaints was a steam inhalation - with me so far? Why do you drink tea or coffee or wine - or are you so politically correct and poker-backed that you live on bread and water? I VAPE because (a) I enjoy it and (b) It has proved vastly more beneficial to my health than prescription drugs which are, quite incidentally, the third biggest killer after cancer and heart disease. I hope I have clarified the position.[/p][/quote]See if you can follow this,apart from dust,diesel smoke,petrol smoke and all the other nasty things we breathe in everyday ,sucking vaporized nicotine,tin and what other rubbish they contain into your body though no way as bad as cigarettes is still a dull and stupid thing to do,I expect a researched and smart arse reply but your denial doesn't wash with me.[/p][/quote]Do you see what you did there? "Though no way as bad as cigarettes" - your words - and the whole point of the electronic cigarette in a nutshell. I have no idea what the denial is to which you refer - what I do have is four years of improved health, the ability to continue using my recreational drug of choice without the attendant hazards and an unswerving determination to promote the e-cig wherever and whenever I can. I think I must disappoint you in your expectation of a "researched and smart arse" reply - that would be a really dull and stupid thing to waste my time on. Dragonmum
  • Score: 5

11:46pm Wed 2 Apr 14

The People's Republic of Newp says...

gingertom wrote:
Why was Mark drakeford et all at Welsh Rugby Union? What have they got to do with the Welsh NHS? Glorified county councillors these AM' s first they legislated on carrier bags now this balony.
He wasn't. Was a youth justice worker and probation officer who became a lecturer in social policy at Swansea, then Cardiff University. From 2000 until his election in 2011 he acted as political adviser to the WG. He has not, it seems I can guarantee, played a role at the calamitous WRU.
[quote][p][bold]gingertom[/bold] wrote: Why was Mark drakeford et all at Welsh Rugby Union? What have they got to do with the Welsh NHS? Glorified county councillors these AM' s first they legislated on carrier bags now this balony.[/p][/quote]He wasn't. Was a youth justice worker and probation officer who became a lecturer in social policy at Swansea, then Cardiff University. From 2000 until his election in 2011 he acted as political adviser to the WG. He has not, it seems I can guarantee, played a role at the calamitous WRU. The People's Republic of Newp
  • Score: -2

10:28am Thu 3 Apr 14

Dai Rear says...

Where can I find this cheap booze? I've been looking for over 48 years and never a whisper. Would save my triennial journey to the Chunnel. Though I've grown to like the journey I'm getting a bit long in the tooth, but so far as I'm aware our State has managed to keep booze tax among the world tax leaders though not quite up with the Death Tax where only the Banana...Irish Republic beats us.
Where can I find this cheap booze? I've been looking for over 48 years and never a whisper. Would save my triennial journey to the Chunnel. Though I've grown to like the journey I'm getting a bit long in the tooth, but so far as I'm aware our State has managed to keep booze tax among the world tax leaders though not quite up with the Death Tax where only the Banana...Irish Republic beats us. Dai Rear
  • Score: 5

12:31pm Thu 3 Apr 14

DDDog1 says...

Dragonmum wrote:
DDDog1 wrote:
Dragonmum wrote:
DDDog1 wrote:
Dragonmum wrote:
DDDog1 wrote:
You can't honestly believe anything that is vaporised and breathed deep into the lungs is not doing any harm to you can you Dragonmum?
I wouldn't dismiss anything that was PROVEN to be harmful, but I hang over steaming kettles, pots and pans and I go out in fog without thinking twice.
I have also researched and used e-cigs for 4 years - they have resulted in my not having to inhale steroids deeply into my lungs because my asthma has all but disappeared. Go to e-cigarette-research





.com which provides ample evidence that the electronic cigarette is 99% safer than its tobacco counterpart - isn't that what is under consideration? Or would you and Stan Glantz prefer to see people driven back to something which, it is alleged, kills 50% of its users?
Why smoke at all,especially if you have asthma.
I am not smoking - or is that a bit too complicated for you? I'm really beginning to see why you're a Stan Fan. There is no smoke without fire so there is no smoke from and e-cig - OK? In the days before antibiotics the treatment for chest complaints was a steam inhalation - with me so far?
Why do you drink tea or coffee or wine - or are you so politically correct and poker-backed that you live on bread and water? I VAPE because (a) I enjoy it and (b) It has proved vastly more beneficial to my health than prescription drugs which are, quite incidentally, the third biggest killer after cancer and heart disease. I hope I have clarified the position.
See if you can follow this,apart from dust,diesel smoke,petrol smoke and all the other nasty things we breathe in everyday ,sucking vaporized nicotine,tin and what other rubbish they contain into your body though no way as bad as cigarettes is still a dull and stupid thing to do,I expect a researched and smart arse reply but your denial doesn't wash with me.
Do you see what you did there? "Though no way as bad as cigarettes" - your words - and the whole point of the electronic cigarette in a nutshell. I have no idea what the denial is to which you refer - what I do have is four years of improved health, the ability to continue using my recreational drug of choice without the attendant hazards and an unswerving determination to promote the e-cig wherever and whenever I can. I think I must disappoint you in your expectation of a "researched and smart arse" reply - that would be a really dull and stupid thing to waste my time on.
The ideal solution is to not to do either especially if you have an health condition but there you go ,you must be smarter than me.
[quote][p][bold]Dragonmum[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DDDog1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dragonmum[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DDDog1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dragonmum[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DDDog1[/bold] wrote: You can't honestly believe anything that is vaporised and breathed deep into the lungs is not doing any harm to you can you Dragonmum?[/p][/quote]I wouldn't dismiss anything that was PROVEN to be harmful, but I hang over steaming kettles, pots and pans and I go out in fog without thinking twice. I have also researched and used e-cigs for 4 years - they have resulted in my not having to inhale steroids deeply into my lungs because my asthma has all but disappeared. Go to e-cigarette-research .com which provides ample evidence that the electronic cigarette is 99% safer than its tobacco counterpart - isn't that what is under consideration? Or would you and Stan Glantz prefer to see people driven back to something which, it is alleged, kills 50% of its users?[/p][/quote]Why smoke at all,especially if you have asthma.[/p][/quote]I am not smoking - or is that a bit too complicated for you? I'm really beginning to see why you're a Stan Fan. There is no smoke without fire so there is no smoke from and e-cig - OK? In the days before antibiotics the treatment for chest complaints was a steam inhalation - with me so far? Why do you drink tea or coffee or wine - or are you so politically correct and poker-backed that you live on bread and water? I VAPE because (a) I enjoy it and (b) It has proved vastly more beneficial to my health than prescription drugs which are, quite incidentally, the third biggest killer after cancer and heart disease. I hope I have clarified the position.[/p][/quote]See if you can follow this,apart from dust,diesel smoke,petrol smoke and all the other nasty things we breathe in everyday ,sucking vaporized nicotine,tin and what other rubbish they contain into your body though no way as bad as cigarettes is still a dull and stupid thing to do,I expect a researched and smart arse reply but your denial doesn't wash with me.[/p][/quote]Do you see what you did there? "Though no way as bad as cigarettes" - your words - and the whole point of the electronic cigarette in a nutshell. I have no idea what the denial is to which you refer - what I do have is four years of improved health, the ability to continue using my recreational drug of choice without the attendant hazards and an unswerving determination to promote the e-cig wherever and whenever I can. I think I must disappoint you in your expectation of a "researched and smart arse" reply - that would be a really dull and stupid thing to waste my time on.[/p][/quote]The ideal solution is to not to do either especially if you have an health condition but there you go ,you must be smarter than me. DDDog1
  • Score: -1

3:23pm Thu 3 Apr 14

JENKO1965 says...

why don't these morons concentrate on trying to run a failing country rather than trying to run peoples lives
why don't these morons concentrate on trying to run a failing country rather than trying to run peoples lives JENKO1965
  • Score: 5

8:25pm Thu 3 Apr 14

Dai Rear says...

DDDog1 wrote:
Dragonmum wrote:
DDDog1 wrote:
Dragonmum wrote:
DDDog1 wrote:
Dragonmum wrote:
DDDog1 wrote:
You can't honestly believe anything that is vaporised and breathed deep into the lungs is not doing any harm to you can you Dragonmum?
I wouldn't dismiss anything that was PROVEN to be harmful, but I hang over steaming kettles, pots and pans and I go out in fog without thinking twice.
I have also researched and used e-cigs for 4 years - they have resulted in my not having to inhale steroids deeply into my lungs because my asthma has all but disappeared. Go to e-cigarette-research






.com which provides ample evidence that the electronic cigarette is 99% safer than its tobacco counterpart - isn't that what is under consideration? Or would you and Stan Glantz prefer to see people driven back to something which, it is alleged, kills 50% of its users?
Why smoke at all,especially if you have asthma.
I am not smoking - or is that a bit too complicated for you? I'm really beginning to see why you're a Stan Fan. There is no smoke without fire so there is no smoke from and e-cig - OK? In the days before antibiotics the treatment for chest complaints was a steam inhalation - with me so far?
Why do you drink tea or coffee or wine - or are you so politically correct and poker-backed that you live on bread and water? I VAPE because (a) I enjoy it and (b) It has proved vastly more beneficial to my health than prescription drugs which are, quite incidentally, the third biggest killer after cancer and heart disease. I hope I have clarified the position.
See if you can follow this,apart from dust,diesel smoke,petrol smoke and all the other nasty things we breathe in everyday ,sucking vaporized nicotine,tin and what other rubbish they contain into your body though no way as bad as cigarettes is still a dull and stupid thing to do,I expect a researched and smart arse reply but your denial doesn't wash with me.
Do you see what you did there? "Though no way as bad as cigarettes" - your words - and the whole point of the electronic cigarette in a nutshell. I have no idea what the denial is to which you refer - what I do have is four years of improved health, the ability to continue using my recreational drug of choice without the attendant hazards and an unswerving determination to promote the e-cig wherever and whenever I can. I think I must disappoint you in your expectation of a "researched and smart arse" reply - that would be a really dull and stupid thing to waste my time on.
The ideal solution is to not to do either especially if you have an health condition but there you go ,you must be smarter than me.
WHERE IS THIS CHEAP BOOZE? TELL ME! TELL ME!
I feel like Yosser Hughes-gi'us some cheap booze, you know you can. Go on, gi' us it.
[quote][p][bold]DDDog1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dragonmum[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DDDog1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dragonmum[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DDDog1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dragonmum[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DDDog1[/bold] wrote: You can't honestly believe anything that is vaporised and breathed deep into the lungs is not doing any harm to you can you Dragonmum?[/p][/quote]I wouldn't dismiss anything that was PROVEN to be harmful, but I hang over steaming kettles, pots and pans and I go out in fog without thinking twice. I have also researched and used e-cigs for 4 years - they have resulted in my not having to inhale steroids deeply into my lungs because my asthma has all but disappeared. Go to e-cigarette-research .com which provides ample evidence that the electronic cigarette is 99% safer than its tobacco counterpart - isn't that what is under consideration? Or would you and Stan Glantz prefer to see people driven back to something which, it is alleged, kills 50% of its users?[/p][/quote]Why smoke at all,especially if you have asthma.[/p][/quote]I am not smoking - or is that a bit too complicated for you? I'm really beginning to see why you're a Stan Fan. There is no smoke without fire so there is no smoke from and e-cig - OK? In the days before antibiotics the treatment for chest complaints was a steam inhalation - with me so far? Why do you drink tea or coffee or wine - or are you so politically correct and poker-backed that you live on bread and water? I VAPE because (a) I enjoy it and (b) It has proved vastly more beneficial to my health than prescription drugs which are, quite incidentally, the third biggest killer after cancer and heart disease. I hope I have clarified the position.[/p][/quote]See if you can follow this,apart from dust,diesel smoke,petrol smoke and all the other nasty things we breathe in everyday ,sucking vaporized nicotine,tin and what other rubbish they contain into your body though no way as bad as cigarettes is still a dull and stupid thing to do,I expect a researched and smart arse reply but your denial doesn't wash with me.[/p][/quote]Do you see what you did there? "Though no way as bad as cigarettes" - your words - and the whole point of the electronic cigarette in a nutshell. I have no idea what the denial is to which you refer - what I do have is four years of improved health, the ability to continue using my recreational drug of choice without the attendant hazards and an unswerving determination to promote the e-cig wherever and whenever I can. I think I must disappoint you in your expectation of a "researched and smart arse" reply - that would be a really dull and stupid thing to waste my time on.[/p][/quote]The ideal solution is to not to do either especially if you have an health condition but there you go ,you must be smarter than me.[/p][/quote]WHERE IS THIS CHEAP BOOZE? TELL ME! TELL ME! I feel like Yosser Hughes-gi'us some cheap booze, you know you can. Go on, gi' us it. Dai Rear
  • Score: 2

9:28pm Thu 3 Apr 14

Super Shinobi says...

It's irrefutable that tramps drink themselves to death because they spend their disposable income on cheap booze. Do me a favour.

A price hike on the dog poo police fines, because they need to keep an office open, once they've started one, and an attack on one of the most noble inventions this century is sure to have a similar fine based plan behind it too.

Somebody has already said it here, and after the way organ donation was pushed on the Welsh, I don't think it's to strong to say. The WAG operates like a creeping socialist dictatorship, with communist designs, and utter contempt for libertarian values of self determination.

I will never, ever vote Labour again. Get 'em out!
It's irrefutable that tramps drink themselves to death because they spend their disposable income on cheap booze. Do me a favour. A price hike on the dog poo police fines, because they need to keep an office open, once they've started one, and an attack on one of the most noble inventions this century is sure to have a similar fine based plan behind it too. Somebody has already said it here, and after the way organ donation was pushed on the Welsh, I don't think it's to strong to say. The WAG operates like a creeping socialist dictatorship, with communist designs, and utter contempt for libertarian values of self determination. I will never, ever vote Labour again. Get 'em out! Super Shinobi
  • Score: 1

7:14am Fri 4 Apr 14

Dai Rear says...

"It's irrefutable that tramps drink themselves to death because they spend their disposable income on cheap booze. Do me a favour. "
Well I see them in the underpasses in Bournemouth and they're drinking Special Brew which is £1.60 a tin. That's a lot of money. In Calais the same beer is 47 CENTS a tin though funnily enough I don't see noisesome groups hanging round the streets drinking such tins in that city.
"It's irrefutable that tramps drink themselves to death because they spend their disposable income on cheap booze. Do me a favour. " Well I see them in the underpasses in Bournemouth and they're drinking Special Brew which is £1.60 a tin. That's a lot of money. In Calais the same beer is 47 CENTS a tin though funnily enough I don't see noisesome groups hanging round the streets drinking such tins in that city. Dai Rear
  • Score: 4

8:01am Fri 4 Apr 14

Mervyn James says...

ncfcr wrote:
Why not just ban real cigarettes and issue these things on the NHS for 6 months until the country has forgotten about smoking? Oh, that's right, too much money involved.

This is coming from someone who does smoke.
Too true, the state pimp is against banning tobacco and hard drink or restricting consumption because of the taxes it brings in. If there was no money in it, they would ban the lot. As regards to e-cigs, these people look like drug addicts on our streets blowing steam/vapour whatever around us. It is obvious it is TRENDY to use e-cigs, that was the basis of concern that young people would take it up and then go on to the real thing after.

Personally I find the people using e-cigs as bloody annoying as I did those who smoke the real thing, I think they should carry a notice with them "I am addicted to tobacco and an addict.." . They seem to stand out more as a result of using e-cigs, which supports the view it could encourage more to take up smoking, and lest we forget, e-cigs can still contain nicotine. The is only one cure, stop smoking. There isn't a single positive to it.
[quote][p][bold]ncfcr[/bold] wrote: Why not just ban real cigarettes and issue these things on the NHS for 6 months until the country has forgotten about smoking? Oh, that's right, too much money involved. This is coming from someone who does smoke.[/p][/quote]Too true, the state pimp is against banning tobacco and hard drink or restricting consumption because of the taxes it brings in. If there was no money in it, they would ban the lot. As regards to e-cigs, these people look like drug addicts on our streets blowing steam/vapour whatever around us. It is obvious it is TRENDY to use e-cigs, that was the basis of concern that young people would take it up and then go on to the real thing after. Personally I find the people using e-cigs as bloody annoying as I did those who smoke the real thing, I think they should carry a notice with them "I am addicted to tobacco and an addict.." . They seem to stand out more as a result of using e-cigs, which supports the view it could encourage more to take up smoking, and lest we forget, e-cigs can still contain nicotine. The is only one cure, stop smoking. There isn't a single positive to it. Mervyn James
  • Score: -1

12:22pm Fri 4 Apr 14

-trigg- says...

"There isn't a single positive to it."

There are several very clear positives to using an e-cig over a traditional tobacco product.

*Less harmful to the health of the user, due to the absence of tar and other by-products
* Less harmful to others due to the same byproducts not being in the exhaled smoke
* Reduced costs to the NHS due to lower incidence of smoking related illnesses
* No unpleasant smell
* Increased likelihood of quitting entirely and not restarting

Balanced against this there are a small number of potential harms:
* Possibility that some people may start using e-cigs when they didn't smoke previously
* Significant reduction in tax receipts by central government
* Increased pension bill due to longer average lifespan
"There isn't a single positive to it." There are several very clear positives to using an e-cig over a traditional tobacco product. *Less harmful to the health of the user, due to the absence of tar and other by-products * Less harmful to others due to the same byproducts not being in the exhaled smoke * Reduced costs to the NHS due to lower incidence of smoking related illnesses * No unpleasant smell * Increased likelihood of quitting entirely and not restarting Balanced against this there are a small number of potential harms: * Possibility that some people may start using e-cigs when they didn't smoke previously * Significant reduction in tax receipts by central government * Increased pension bill due to longer average lifespan -trigg-
  • Score: 7

1:31am Sat 5 Apr 14

Super Shinobi says...

Dai Rear wrote:
"It's irrefutable that tramps drink themselves to death because they spend their disposable income on cheap booze. Do me a favour. "
Well I see them in the underpasses in Bournemouth and they're drinking Special Brew which is £1.60 a tin. That's a lot of money. In Calais the same beer is 47 CENTS a tin though funnily enough I don't see noisesome groups hanging round the streets drinking such tins in that city.
What do tramps in Calais have to do with it? Does the extent of hopeless addiction in human beings change depending on location? The article suggests that people who abuse alcohol wouldn't do it if only it were expensive enough.

Seeing as how addiction trancends class, culture, wealth and family circumstances, I'm proposing that the issue is addiction.

Irrefutably cars kill people with regularity each day, there needs to be a human at the helm, but hey, let's ban cars or make it so only rich people can have them.

Much better we keep warning people about addiction. The poorer people who take their vices just as responsibly as wealthy people do not deserve to have their liberties and pockets fleeced.

I hear crack is pretty cheap, yet lots of rich people have wrecked their lives on it. The fact that it's illegal makes no differnce either. Just maybe, some people are getting high, no matter the cost.
[quote][p][bold]Dai Rear[/bold] wrote: "It's irrefutable that tramps drink themselves to death because they spend their disposable income on cheap booze. Do me a favour. " Well I see them in the underpasses in Bournemouth and they're drinking Special Brew which is £1.60 a tin. That's a lot of money. In Calais the same beer is 47 CENTS a tin though funnily enough I don't see noisesome groups hanging round the streets drinking such tins in that city.[/p][/quote]What do tramps in Calais have to do with it? Does the extent of hopeless addiction in human beings change depending on location? The article suggests that people who abuse alcohol wouldn't do it if only it were expensive enough. Seeing as how addiction trancends class, culture, wealth and family circumstances, I'm proposing that the issue is addiction. Irrefutably cars kill people with regularity each day, there needs to be a human at the helm, but hey, let's ban cars or make it so only rich people can have them. Much better we keep warning people about addiction. The poorer people who take their vices just as responsibly as wealthy people do not deserve to have their liberties and pockets fleeced. I hear crack is pretty cheap, yet lots of rich people have wrecked their lives on it. The fact that it's illegal makes no differnce either. Just maybe, some people are getting high, no matter the cost. Super Shinobi
  • Score: 1

7:58am Sat 5 Apr 14

Dai Rear says...

"What do tramps in Calais have to do with it? " Well, as YOU go on to say, it's not a function of price it's a question of addiction which is a personality disorder and a facet of the human condition. I'm not sure about the analogy with cars though. They are a pretty silly idea and I think we're wise enough creatures to soon devise a flexible way of moving ourselves round without the need for a 1 1/2 ton metal box. The point is I suppose that most of us are weary of high taxation and the stupid functionaries of the Big State telling us we need more. Give Drakeford a pronged stick and get him clearing litter on the A465. Let one of this lot do something useful for once.
"What do tramps in Calais have to do with it? " Well, as YOU go on to say, it's not a function of price it's a question of addiction which is a personality disorder and a facet of the human condition. I'm not sure about the analogy with cars though. They are a pretty silly idea and I think we're wise enough creatures to soon devise a flexible way of moving ourselves round without the need for a 1 1/2 ton metal box. The point is I suppose that most of us are weary of high taxation and the stupid functionaries of the Big State telling us we need more. Give Drakeford a pronged stick and get him clearing litter on the A465. Let one of this lot do something useful for once. Dai Rear
  • Score: 2

11:35am Sun 6 Apr 14

Mervyn James says...

Whether smoking the real-thing or playing at it, the image is the same, this is the point being made. Making e-cigs 'fashionable' to non-smokers offers up more problems that solution, makes smoking itself to people that never considered it before. I just think these people look silly with them and make themselves more conspicuous. Like many I still don't know if this second-hand steam/vapour whatever it is,still contains nicotine and is being blown in my face. I think sending the outdoors like we do with smokers is the right way, they need to understand the whole thing is unhealthy, and unsociable too.
Whether smoking the real-thing or playing at it, the image is the same, this is the point being made. Making e-cigs 'fashionable' to non-smokers offers up more problems that solution, makes smoking itself to people that never considered it before. I just think these people look silly with them and make themselves more conspicuous. Like many I still don't know if this second-hand steam/vapour whatever it is,still contains nicotine and is being blown in my face. I think sending the outdoors like we do with smokers is the right way, they need to understand the whole thing is unhealthy, and unsociable too. Mervyn James
  • Score: 1

11:57am Sun 6 Apr 14

Dai Rear says...

Mervyn James wrote:
Whether smoking the real-thing or playing at it, the image is the same, this is the point being made. Making e-cigs 'fashionable' to non-smokers offers up more problems that solution, makes smoking itself to people that never considered it before. I just think these people look silly with them and make themselves more conspicuous. Like many I still don't know if this second-hand steam/vapour whatever it is,still contains nicotine and is being blown in my face. I think sending the outdoors like we do with smokers is the right way, they need to understand the whole thing is unhealthy, and unsociable too.
Yes, well fine, but no function of the State to get involved in any way, is it? After all I pay more for the NHS whether I smoke or not, because I'm a higher rate taxpayer. Unless the appropriate connection between how much you pay and what you get is made the whole thing is a load of carp isn't it?
[quote][p][bold]Mervyn James[/bold] wrote: Whether smoking the real-thing or playing at it, the image is the same, this is the point being made. Making e-cigs 'fashionable' to non-smokers offers up more problems that solution, makes smoking itself to people that never considered it before. I just think these people look silly with them and make themselves more conspicuous. Like many I still don't know if this second-hand steam/vapour whatever it is,still contains nicotine and is being blown in my face. I think sending the outdoors like we do with smokers is the right way, they need to understand the whole thing is unhealthy, and unsociable too.[/p][/quote]Yes, well fine, but no function of the State to get involved in any way, is it? After all I pay more for the NHS whether I smoke or not, because I'm a higher rate taxpayer. Unless the appropriate connection between how much you pay and what you get is made the whole thing is a load of carp isn't it? Dai Rear
  • Score: 4

8:29am Mon 7 Apr 14

Mervyn James says...

Should we not stop people being unsociable and killing themselves and others, it's a free country but not THAT free. Euthanasia is still illegal here, and smoking is just a matter of degree, not only with the same eventual outcome, but a direct challenge to others well-being. The state should step in when THAT occurs. The other topic where cannabis is mooted a bit of fun, also has the same aspect, it isn't what people do to themselves so much the issue, but the misery they inflict on other people. Stopping that is what nannies are for.
Should we not stop people being unsociable and killing themselves and others, it's a free country but not THAT free. Euthanasia is still illegal here, and smoking is just a matter of degree, not only with the same eventual outcome, but a direct challenge to others well-being. The state should step in when THAT occurs. The other topic where cannabis is mooted a bit of fun, also has the same aspect, it isn't what people do to themselves so much the issue, but the misery they inflict on other people. Stopping that is what nannies are for. Mervyn James
  • Score: -1

10:09am Tue 8 Apr 14

Dai Rear says...

", and smoking is just a matter of degree, not only with the same eventual outcome, but a direct challenge to others well-being." First part, wrong , because there isn't 100% correlation (not even 40%) whereas there's 100 with euthanasia. "challenge to others well-being". Well ,not now. The State's done its bit and this "Welsh Government" stuff is just displacement activity for clerks who couldn't get a job in the real world.
", and smoking is just a matter of degree, not only with the same eventual outcome, but a direct challenge to others well-being." First part, wrong , because there isn't 100% correlation (not even 40%) whereas there's 100 with euthanasia. "challenge to others well-being". Well ,not now. The State's done its bit and this "Welsh Government" stuff is just displacement activity for clerks who couldn't get a job in the real world. Dai Rear
  • Score: 0

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