Newport to get M4 relief road - by 2022

Newport to get new M4 - by 2022

Newport to get new M4 - by 2022

First published in Gwent news
Last updated

M4 relief road to follow this route:

South Wales Argus:

UPDATE: 5.43pm

Commenting on the Welsh Government’s decision to adopt the ‘black route’ when moving ahead with M4 relief, the shadow minister for transport, Tory Byron Davies AM, said the news was "a long time coming, today’s announcement at least shows progress and willing – finally.

“Make no mistake – the spades must start digging and businesses and travellers given the relief so sorely needed.

UPDATE: 5.23pm

Lindsay Whittle, Plaid Cymru AM for South Wales East, who has opposed the development over the Gwent Levels, said:

“This is shocking news. The Welsh Government is proposing to spend £1bn of tax-payers’ money on this road and the costs will undoubtedly rise substantially higher in the years to come.”

UPDATE: 5.21pm

Friends of the Earth Cymru said the new motorway will "devastate" nationally important wildlife sites in the "beautiful and peaceful Gwent Levels" south of Newport, but will not be open to traffic for more than a decade.

A spokesman added the "massive cost will rule out other far less damaging options that could bring transport improvements to the area in a fraction of the time and at a fraction of the price."

UPDATE: 5.17pm

The Federation of Small Businesses Wales said the Transport Minister’s M4 decision was a ‘billion pound mistake’.

A spokesman for the group said the ‘black route’ which the Minister has chosen to commit the Welsh Government to is "overly expensive, will take too long to deliver, and faces huge opposition from environmental groups."

He added: “It is deeply disappointing that the Minister has turned her back on the ‘blue route’ proposed by Professor Stuart Cole – a scheme which could provide an effective solution to the current problems on the M4 a full decade earlier than the scheme she is progressing and for around £600m less.

UPDATE: 5.02pm

Shadow Minister for Business and Enterprise and Gwent AM William Graham welcomed the announcement saying: "Over all these years I, together with the leading business organisations, have repeatedly called for a Relief Road, fully aware of the negative impact of traffic congestion approaching the Brynglas Tunnels and that it is key to the economic prosperity of South Wales”.

UPDATE: 4.57pm

Minister Edwina Hart said the Magor - Castleton route was chosen following the recent consultation. It will be built between junctions 23 and 29 south of Newport, alongside "complementary measures", which include:

• Reclassifying the existing M4 between Magor and Castleton
• An M4/M48/B4245 connection
• Providing cycling friendly infrastructure
• Providing walking friendly infrastructure

UPDATE: 4.53pm

The leader of transport group for Wales Sustrans Cymru, said, “£1billion for a new section of motorway is the wrong transport priority for Wales.

Jane Lorimer of Sustrans said: “Investment in public transport must be the priority for building a sustainable and efficient economy, yet the Welsh Government’s consultation on the need for an M4 relief road scheme didn’t take into account other proposals that will reduce demand, such as the Metro programme, or evidence showing that car use is now in decline.

UPDATE: 4.35pm

NEWPORT will get a new M4, but not until 2022, it was announced today.

The route chosen will take the motorway from the existing junctions 23 at Magor to 29 at Castleton, going through Newport docks. It is set to cost £1bn.

Comments (56)

Please log in to enable comment sorting

5:12pm Wed 16 Jul 14

cjwales1 says...

Great News for all !!!! Cant see how it would take 8yrs tho ?????
At least those in power have actually realised that birds, newts, worms will actually move 50m either side of the the new motorway, as they have done with the Second Severn Crossing...
Maybe the left wing tree huggers can find a worthy cause to support rather than creating unneeded beaurocracy for some time that has been overdue for years !!!!
Great News for all !!!! Cant see how it would take 8yrs tho ????? At least those in power have actually realised that birds, newts, worms will actually move 50m either side of the the new motorway, as they have done with the Second Severn Crossing... Maybe the left wing tree huggers can find a worthy cause to support rather than creating unneeded beaurocracy for some time that has been overdue for years !!!! cjwales1
  • Score: 21

5:15pm Wed 16 Jul 14

Paxman's Army says...

Rushed through a bit, wasn't it?

Any politicians have any comment about the cheaper and more practical options that wouldn't have cut a chunk out of the wetlands? And where's Pippa and the Greens? Are they going to just cower like rabbits and let this happen without nary a peep? Quiet as churchmice they are.
Rushed through a bit, wasn't it? Any politicians have any comment about the cheaper and more practical options that wouldn't have cut a chunk out of the wetlands? And where's Pippa and the Greens? Are they going to just cower like rabbits and let this happen without nary a peep? Quiet as churchmice they are. Paxman's Army
  • Score: -20

5:20pm Wed 16 Jul 14

Paxman's Army says...

Absolutely CJ. To hell with any natural beauty we have left. What's the point, eh? And why not spend a fortune more on an M4 Relief Road than upgrades to the existing roads, eh? You like shelling out money, doncha CJ? Oh you didn't read how traffic consultants favoured those less expensive options? Of course you didn't.
Absolutely CJ. To hell with any natural beauty we have left. What's the point, eh? And why not spend a fortune more on an M4 Relief Road than upgrades to the existing roads, eh? You like shelling out money, doncha CJ? Oh you didn't read how traffic consultants favoured those less expensive options? Of course you didn't. Paxman's Army
  • Score: -9

5:34pm Wed 16 Jul 14

Magor says...

Just get on with it ,no more excuses unless you want South Wales to slide into total poverty.Firms will not invest without this new road.
Just get on with it ,no more excuses unless you want South Wales to slide into total poverty.Firms will not invest without this new road. Magor
  • Score: 19

5:46pm Wed 16 Jul 14

cjwales1 says...

Paxman's Army wrote:
Absolutely CJ. To hell with any natural beauty we have left. What's the point, eh? And why not spend a fortune more on an M4 Relief Road than upgrades to the existing roads, eh? You like shelling out money, doncha CJ? Oh you didn't read how traffic consultants favoured those less expensive options? Of course you didn't.
Oh get real !!!!!!
What the SDR option ???? if you are not commuting on your ethnic peace bike you will know this is gridlocked at least once a week, normally coinciding with the M4 being gridlocked also.

Nature isnt gonna suffer, just take a walk along the Second Severn Crossing route and it has some of the most diverse fauna and flora in this part of the world !!!!

Seems the Green/ tree huggers need to find a new cause as this is going through now !!!! Maybe try the race track in the valleys , am sure they need a few more greenies to get some new opinions !!!

Meanwhile the rest of the real working population can look forward to some progress !!!!
[quote][p][bold]Paxman's Army[/bold] wrote: Absolutely CJ. To hell with any natural beauty we have left. What's the point, eh? And why not spend a fortune more on an M4 Relief Road than upgrades to the existing roads, eh? You like shelling out money, doncha CJ? Oh you didn't read how traffic consultants favoured those less expensive options? Of course you didn't.[/p][/quote]Oh get real !!!!!! What the SDR option ???? if you are not commuting on your ethnic peace bike you will know this is gridlocked at least once a week, normally coinciding with the M4 being gridlocked also. Nature isnt gonna suffer, just take a walk along the Second Severn Crossing route and it has some of the most diverse fauna and flora in this part of the world !!!! Seems the Green/ tree huggers need to find a new cause as this is going through now !!!! Maybe try the race track in the valleys , am sure they need a few more greenies to get some new opinions !!! Meanwhile the rest of the real working population can look forward to some progress !!!! cjwales1
  • Score: 32

5:49pm Wed 16 Jul 14

fedupjon says...

It would appear from these statements that the road will be open from 2022 but knowing WAG it probably wont start construction until then. I am all for the new road but cant see why it will take so long.
It would appear from these statements that the road will be open from 2022 but knowing WAG it probably wont start construction until then. I am all for the new road but cant see why it will take so long. fedupjon
  • Score: 14

5:50pm Wed 16 Jul 14

Dave on his Soapbox says...

'Paxman's Army says...
Rushed through a bit, wasn't it?'

.......10 months to a General Election....they need something positive to get them re-elected......

As with everything.....if you don't bother voting you can't complain if you get things you don't want.....

Although they promise a lot and deliver little.....
'Paxman's Army says... Rushed through a bit, wasn't it?' .......10 months to a General Election....they need something positive to get them re-elected...... As with everything.....if you don't bother voting you can't complain if you get things you don't want..... Although they promise a lot and deliver little..... Dave on his Soapbox
  • Score: 6

6:10pm Wed 16 Jul 14

Evil Flanker says...

Could we get a map that you can zoom into for this ?

It's a little too small to make out exactly where it goes.
Could we get a map that you can zoom into for this ? It's a little too small to make out exactly where it goes. Evil Flanker
  • Score: 17

6:19pm Wed 16 Jul 14

DavidMclean says...

Hilarious! The most expensive and impractical solution is chosen and people are dancing for joy. I guess it's true what they say about fools and their money...
Hilarious! The most expensive and impractical solution is chosen and people are dancing for joy. I guess it's true what they say about fools and their money... DavidMclean
  • Score: -14

6:32pm Wed 16 Jul 14

Nospin_1 says...

Anyone seriously suggesting the SDR option has clearly never been on it when the motorway is closed and has never queued to join the motorway at Tredegar house any working day of the week.

It is a fact the we are more important than a few voles and newts, anyway some of the best wildlife sanctuaries are motorway verges because people are not allowed there and as someone has pointed out the wild life is doing fine in the Somerset levels, other than lack of dredging drowning all of it ( not the newts).

Get real this road is absolutely essential for a business expanding South Wales, get digging now, any AM objecting to it should be immediately deselected for lack of common sense.
Anyone seriously suggesting the SDR option has clearly never been on it when the motorway is closed and has never queued to join the motorway at Tredegar house any working day of the week. It is a fact the we are more important than a few voles and newts, anyway some of the best wildlife sanctuaries are motorway verges because people are not allowed there and as someone has pointed out the wild life is doing fine in the Somerset levels, other than lack of dredging drowning all of it ( not the newts). Get real this road is absolutely essential for a business expanding South Wales, get digging now, any AM objecting to it should be immediately deselected for lack of common sense. Nospin_1
  • Score: 27

6:43pm Wed 16 Jul 14

Paxman's Army says...

Good for business you say Nospin? Even though the Federation of Small Businesses Wales said the Transport Minister’s M4 decision was a ‘billion pound mistake?' Even though the other options were cheaper? You did look at the other options, didn't you? I can't help but think of the similarity with the HS2 argument. . . that it'll be the panacea for the North. How many seconds will it cut from a trip to London? And didn't the costs spiral? If you really think this'll cost the pricetag they're quoting now. . all I can say I'm glad you ain't running for office.
Good for business you say Nospin? Even though the Federation of Small Businesses Wales said the Transport Minister’s M4 decision was a ‘billion pound mistake?' Even though the other options were cheaper? You did look at the other options, didn't you? I can't help but think of the similarity with the HS2 argument. . . that it'll be the panacea for the North. How many seconds will it cut from a trip to London? And didn't the costs spiral? If you really think this'll cost the pricetag they're quoting now. . all I can say I'm glad you ain't running for office. Paxman's Army
  • Score: -14

6:47pm Wed 16 Jul 14

Paxman's Army says...

That's a quote that sums up the case for this Relief Road. . .

"Some of the best wildlife sanctuaries are motorway verges."
That's a quote that sums up the case for this Relief Road. . . "Some of the best wildlife sanctuaries are motorway verges." Paxman's Army
  • Score: 2

6:51pm Wed 16 Jul 14

Magor says...

Paxman's Army wrote:
Good for business you say Nospin? Even though the Federation of Small Businesses Wales said the Transport Minister’s M4 decision was a ‘billion pound mistake?' Even though the other options were cheaper? You did look at the other options, didn't you? I can't help but think of the similarity with the HS2 argument. . . that it'll be the panacea for the North. How many seconds will it cut from a trip to London? And didn't the costs spiral? If you really think this'll cost the pricetag they're quoting now. . all I can say I'm glad you ain't running for office.
Was in Italy last week 300kmhr on the train took 1 hr from Naples to Rome,dont knock HS2,we need good road and rail links.
[quote][p][bold]Paxman's Army[/bold] wrote: Good for business you say Nospin? Even though the Federation of Small Businesses Wales said the Transport Minister’s M4 decision was a ‘billion pound mistake?' Even though the other options were cheaper? You did look at the other options, didn't you? I can't help but think of the similarity with the HS2 argument. . . that it'll be the panacea for the North. How many seconds will it cut from a trip to London? And didn't the costs spiral? If you really think this'll cost the pricetag they're quoting now. . all I can say I'm glad you ain't running for office.[/p][/quote]Was in Italy last week 300kmhr on the train took 1 hr from Naples to Rome,dont knock HS2,we need good road and rail links. Magor
  • Score: 16

6:53pm Wed 16 Jul 14

-trigg- says...

Strange how Friends of the Earth greenies are all up in arms about this motorway but are perfectly happy to see absolutely useless wind turbines erected on the self same wewtlands without a murmur of protest.
Strange how Friends of the Earth greenies are all up in arms about this motorway but are perfectly happy to see absolutely useless wind turbines erected on the self same wewtlands without a murmur of protest. -trigg-
  • Score: 24

7:28pm Wed 16 Jul 14

Limestonecowboy says...

Like the mural all of a sudden theres outcry over something no -one really cares about what do these greenies want to happen - nothing probably.
Like the mural all of a sudden theres outcry over something no -one really cares about what do these greenies want to happen - nothing probably. Limestonecowboy
  • Score: 2

7:41pm Wed 16 Jul 14

John_frost says...

The same people against this are the same lot who opposed friars walk shopping, Nato summit, new train station, Ryder cup and . These people are just anti progress and would prefer to just moan about costs. This is what INVESTMENT looks like.
The same people against this are the same lot who opposed friars walk shopping, Nato summit, new train station, Ryder cup and . These people are just anti progress and would prefer to just moan about costs. This is what INVESTMENT looks like. John_frost
  • Score: 19

7:43pm Wed 16 Jul 14

Robert Shillabeer says...

Look at the actual route, it won't affect the wet lands that much or the other SSSI sites as it will simply run around thier edges. The only downside is there will be no access to Newport from it so it could be called the Newport Byepass.
Look at the actual route, it won't affect the wet lands that much or the other SSSI sites as it will simply run around thier edges. The only downside is there will be no access to Newport from it so it could be called the Newport Byepass. Robert Shillabeer
  • Score: 21

7:50pm Wed 16 Jul 14

Mr Bump. says...

Are there to be any junctions joining the South of Newport with this option or is it to be a bypass of Newport? If it's the latter i fear it may be the final nail in Newports coffin.
Are there to be any junctions joining the South of Newport with this option or is it to be a bypass of Newport? If it's the latter i fear it may be the final nail in Newports coffin. Mr Bump.
  • Score: 5

7:58pm Wed 16 Jul 14

ninebalehigh says...

Well, actually it IS a by-pass. And x amount of years after it's built it will be as congested as the current road networks and they'll need a by-pass for the by-pass. Infinity.

1billion at today's prices, which will cost what(?) by 2022?

And how many more vehicles on the road by then? eight years time?

Bad decision all round.
Well, actually it IS a by-pass. And x amount of years after it's built it will be as congested as the current road networks and they'll need a by-pass for the by-pass. Infinity. 1billion at today's prices, which will cost what(?) by 2022? And how many more vehicles on the road by then? eight years time? Bad decision all round. ninebalehigh
  • Score: -15

8:01pm Wed 16 Jul 14

Woodgnome says...

John_frost wrote:
The same people against this are the same lot who opposed friars walk shopping, Nato summit, new train station, Ryder cup and . These people are just anti progress and would prefer to just moan about costs. This is what INVESTMENT looks like.
A billion quid of public money and rising. A road across ecologically important sites or hospitals and schools? That's what political decisions look like.
[quote][p][bold]John_frost[/bold] wrote: The same people against this are the same lot who opposed friars walk shopping, Nato summit, new train station, Ryder cup and . These people are just anti progress and would prefer to just moan about costs. This is what INVESTMENT looks like.[/p][/quote]A billion quid of public money and rising. A road across ecologically important sites or hospitals and schools? That's what political decisions look like. Woodgnome
  • Score: -9

8:08pm Wed 16 Jul 14

Brin88 says...

Listen chaps, the point is that the wetlands are already compensatory habit created when the Cardiff Barrage was built to comply with environmental legislation. The Government is likely to find out that they CANNOT build on it.

Plus, from an environmental point of view the damage isn't just about the width of the road, it has wider implications - for example water run off carrying chemicals which will poison a SSSI (which stands for Site of Special Scientific Interest - one of the most protected areas in Britain).

The main issue here is that the government has cocked up the legal / environmental assesment process because they don't actually understand it, and are likely to spend years in court. You want a road? You wont see this one for decades - which is one point the FSB make.

And yes it does by pass Newport without junctions. Which WILL damage the Newport economy which is another point the FSB make. Essentially this will be good for the economy of England and Ireland at either end.
Listen chaps, the point is that the wetlands are already compensatory habit created when the Cardiff Barrage was built to comply with environmental legislation. The Government is likely to find out that they CANNOT build on it. Plus, from an environmental point of view the damage isn't just about the width of the road, it has wider implications - for example water run off carrying chemicals which will poison a SSSI (which stands for Site of Special Scientific Interest - one of the most protected areas in Britain). The main issue here is that the government has cocked up the legal / environmental assesment process because they don't actually understand it, and are likely to spend years in court. You want a road? You wont see this one for decades - which is one point the FSB make. And yes it does by pass Newport without junctions. Which WILL damage the Newport economy which is another point the FSB make. Essentially this will be good for the economy of England and Ireland at either end. Brin88
  • Score: 2

8:15pm Wed 16 Jul 14

anigel says...

Paxman's Army wrote:
Absolutely CJ. To hell with any natural beauty we have left. What's the point, eh? And why not spend a fortune more on an M4 Relief Road than upgrades to the existing roads, eh? You like shelling out money, doncha CJ? Oh you didn't read how traffic consultants favoured those less expensive options? Of course you didn't.
We don't have any it has been destroyed by Bird choppers in the name of saving the beauty.
[quote][p][bold]Paxman's Army[/bold] wrote: Absolutely CJ. To hell with any natural beauty we have left. What's the point, eh? And why not spend a fortune more on an M4 Relief Road than upgrades to the existing roads, eh? You like shelling out money, doncha CJ? Oh you didn't read how traffic consultants favoured those less expensive options? Of course you didn't.[/p][/quote]We don't have any it has been destroyed by Bird choppers in the name of saving the beauty. anigel
  • Score: 1

8:47pm Wed 16 Jul 14

landyman3030 says...

The SDR was never going to be an option. Too many junctions, traffic lights, adjoining roads and roundabouts and Spytty Retail Park clog this route up daily without M4 traffic. I don't see why we need to make it accessible to Newport. The whole point is to get the traffic past Newport quickly and efficiently to open up Wales. If people want to access Wales they will use the m4 as is now. This could all change in 8 years anyway. With the way the WAG are hell bent on bankrupting Wales now this may never see fruition. Depends how many pound coins Sheriff Carwyn of Notinmybackyard can fleece out of the peasant class who try and take their kids on holiday.
The SDR was never going to be an option. Too many junctions, traffic lights, adjoining roads and roundabouts and Spytty Retail Park clog this route up daily without M4 traffic. I don't see why we need to make it accessible to Newport. The whole point is to get the traffic past Newport quickly and efficiently to open up Wales. If people want to access Wales they will use the m4 as is now. This could all change in 8 years anyway. With the way the WAG are hell bent on bankrupting Wales now this may never see fruition. Depends how many pound coins Sheriff Carwyn of Notinmybackyard can fleece out of the peasant class who try and take their kids on holiday. landyman3030
  • Score: 13

8:48pm Wed 16 Jul 14

Brin88 says...

Anigel that doesn't even make sense as a sentence written in English.

And while I'm at it, a number of you are thinking 2022 is a long time to build the road? At this stage the Government has only looked at what is possible at the very highest level. Read the documentation. It is full of caveats and comments about the need for thorough investigation of issues.

Think though the process of doing this, taking land from private owners (if it was your land would you want the opportunity to object?), holding a public inquiry where the very real issues which those living and running businesses nearby will have to be considered, surveying the site, drawing up plans, appointing the contractors, building a significant piece of road through wet and difficult terrain. And that's assuming no legal challenge. Aye sure we can knock that up in five minutes.

Or are you happy for the Welsh Government to spend what will be in reality well in excess of £1 billion of Welsh money without proper planning.

The next time those who are in favour of this road look at the mess their child's school building is in, or the local hospital, or are complaining about the literally hundreds of bottlenecks on road and rail across Wales remember that the Welsh Government is proposing to spend twice the £500m borrowing limit currently included in the Wales Bill which is going through Westminster on one project - i.e. they're spending the entire mortgage, all available borrowing, and at the very least the same again from their own budget, on one project delivered over 6-8 years. The TOTAL Welsh block grant is just £15 billion. Then remember the fact that you were delighted by the investment - and therefore presumably happy that your schools and hospitals are in dire condition.
Anigel that doesn't even make sense as a sentence written in English. And while I'm at it, a number of you are thinking 2022 is a long time to build the road? At this stage the Government has only looked at what is possible at the very highest level. Read the documentation. It is full of caveats and comments about the need for thorough investigation of issues. Think though the process of doing this, taking land from private owners (if it was your land would you want the opportunity to object?), holding a public inquiry where the very real issues which those living and running businesses nearby will have to be considered, surveying the site, drawing up plans, appointing the contractors, building a significant piece of road through wet and difficult terrain. And that's assuming no legal challenge. Aye sure we can knock that up in five minutes. Or are you happy for the Welsh Government to spend what will be in reality well in excess of £1 billion of Welsh money without proper planning. The next time those who are in favour of this road look at the mess their child's school building is in, or the local hospital, or are complaining about the literally hundreds of bottlenecks on road and rail across Wales remember that the Welsh Government is proposing to spend twice the £500m borrowing limit currently included in the Wales Bill which is going through Westminster on one project - i.e. they're spending the entire mortgage, all available borrowing, and at the very least the same again from their own budget, on one project delivered over 6-8 years. The TOTAL Welsh block grant is just £15 billion. Then remember the fact that you were delighted by the investment - and therefore presumably happy that your schools and hospitals are in dire condition. Brin88
  • Score: 2

8:53pm Wed 16 Jul 14

Paxman's Army says...

Complain about the green tree huggers all you want. But at least they took the time to look at the other options. Not one poster here in favour of the relief road. . .not one. . has mentioned those other options. It's because not one has even considered them.They'd rather just rage against the "tree huggers" and spend taxpayer money. And the wildlife? What of the wildlife? Well as one poster said. . . they're do just fine on the traffic verges.

Pro business? Hey, why not shove a Burger King on Skomer?

Tired of being stuck in traffic? You really think that a relief road necessarily means the end of traffic jams? You really think this will wind up being just a billion?
Complain about the green tree huggers all you want. But at least they took the time to look at the other options. Not one poster here in favour of the relief road. . .not one. . has mentioned those other options. It's because not one has even considered them.They'd rather just rage against the "tree huggers" and spend taxpayer money. And the wildlife? What of the wildlife? Well as one poster said. . . they're do just fine on the traffic verges. Pro business? Hey, why not shove a Burger King on Skomer? Tired of being stuck in traffic? You really think that a relief road necessarily means the end of traffic jams? You really think this will wind up being just a billion? Paxman's Army
  • Score: -11

8:53pm Wed 16 Jul 14

keithbob says...

Mr Bump. wrote:
Are there to be any junctions joining the South of Newport with this option or is it to be a bypass of Newport? If it's the latter i fear it may be the final nail in Newports coffin.
if you want newport you stay on the existing m4.get real its obvious to the intelligent the new motorway will take away traffic only passing through to cardiff and beyond.
[quote][p][bold]Mr Bump.[/bold] wrote: Are there to be any junctions joining the South of Newport with this option or is it to be a bypass of Newport? If it's the latter i fear it may be the final nail in Newports coffin.[/p][/quote]if you want newport you stay on the existing m4.get real its obvious to the intelligent the new motorway will take away traffic only passing through to cardiff and beyond. keithbob
  • Score: 8

8:56pm Wed 16 Jul 14

keithbob says...

Mr Bump. wrote:
Are there to be any junctions joining the South of Newport with this option or is it to be a bypass of Newport? If it's the latter i fear it may be the final nail in Newports coffin.
if you want newport you stay on the existing m4.get real its obvious to the intelligent the new motorway will take away traffic only passing through to cardiff and beyond.
[quote][p][bold]Mr Bump.[/bold] wrote: Are there to be any junctions joining the South of Newport with this option or is it to be a bypass of Newport? If it's the latter i fear it may be the final nail in Newports coffin.[/p][/quote]if you want newport you stay on the existing m4.get real its obvious to the intelligent the new motorway will take away traffic only passing through to cardiff and beyond. keithbob
  • Score: 0

8:58pm Wed 16 Jul 14

slice_of_life says...

Article from RSPB highlights wildlife concerns

http://www.rspb.org.
uk/community/getinvo
lved/naturesheroes/b
/weblog/archive/2013
/10/08/upgrading-the
-m4-a-threat-to-the-
gwent-levels.aspx

the proposed route cuts through the GWENT levels. As far as I am aware the black route would be the preferred route. If this is considered to cut through the GWENT levels then all the other options would appear to do that also. The only difference would appear to be around the docks. So i’m guessing the RSPB would object to all three routes proposed above the do minimum.

wales consultation papers
http://wales.gov.uk/
docs/det/consultatio
n/130923m4consen.pdf


map showing proposed routes
http://wales.gov.uk/
docs/det/consultatio
n/130923m4mapen.pdf

the preferred option black route is a 3 lane motorway
purple alternative is a motorway following a similar route
red alternative is a dual 2 lane all purpose road
these are the options beyond the DO MINIMUM scenario which is do nothing more than that already planned. The do minimum (not shown on the map, it merely relies mainly on existing network) would involve relying on the new road through the steelworks that also serves housing and the SDR and re-doing junction 28.

With the amount of housing being built in Newport on the former steelworks site and along the riverside and Pill area Newport needs roads that can be used for inner traffic. If the SDR is reprioritised for M4 relief I would be concerned that inner traffic that uses the SDR would be forced further within Newport, e.g. onto Cardiff Rd which would then become gridlocked from local traffic. The SDR serves a vital purpose at the moment of moving local traffic around Newport, e.g. access to Maesglass retail park, the recycling centre (which often gets backed up), moving traffic up to Sptty, and the Coldra roundabout. The SDR often gets backed up from the second roundabout on from the recycling centre to the roundabout outside ONS/IPO and then along Cardiff road by Tredegar Park. Any work to use the SDR would also have required crucial planning and futureproofing to accommodate a growing Newport. The southern motorway option would accommodate for a growing Newport. Like many others mention i also have my reservations regarding it conveniently being a Newport bypass (Welcome to Cardiff, gateway to Wales ;) ) but Newport would have a junction on both sides and still the existing M4 (downgraded) and it would be up to Newport to make the most of any development and encourage business to be built around it.. As for comments saying that in future traffic will only grow and another bypass will be required, if one isn’t built now it will only get worse regardless? The other option which may help is a comprehensive Metro system connecting south east wales region, Cardiff, Newport, valley areas. This would alleviate the current M4 of local traffic and leave the motorway for transport of goods and other non-local traffic to get further into Wales, Bridgend and Swansea.
Article from RSPB highlights wildlife concerns http://www.rspb.org. uk/community/getinvo lved/naturesheroes/b /weblog/archive/2013 /10/08/upgrading-the -m4-a-threat-to-the- gwent-levels.aspx the proposed route cuts through the GWENT levels. As far as I am aware the black route would be the preferred route. If this is considered to cut through the GWENT levels then all the other options would appear to do that also. The only difference would appear to be around the docks. So i’m guessing the RSPB would object to all three routes proposed above the do minimum. wales consultation papers http://wales.gov.uk/ docs/det/consultatio n/130923m4consen.pdf map showing proposed routes http://wales.gov.uk/ docs/det/consultatio n/130923m4mapen.pdf the preferred option black route is a 3 lane motorway purple alternative is a motorway following a similar route red alternative is a dual 2 lane all purpose road these are the options beyond the DO MINIMUM scenario which is do nothing more than that already planned. The do minimum (not shown on the map, it merely relies mainly on existing network) would involve relying on the new road through the steelworks that also serves housing and the SDR and re-doing junction 28. With the amount of housing being built in Newport on the former steelworks site and along the riverside and Pill area Newport needs roads that can be used for inner traffic. If the SDR is reprioritised for M4 relief I would be concerned that inner traffic that uses the SDR would be forced further within Newport, e.g. onto Cardiff Rd which would then become gridlocked from local traffic. The SDR serves a vital purpose at the moment of moving local traffic around Newport, e.g. access to Maesglass retail park, the recycling centre (which often gets backed up), moving traffic up to Sptty, and the Coldra roundabout. The SDR often gets backed up from the second roundabout on from the recycling centre to the roundabout outside ONS/IPO and then along Cardiff road by Tredegar Park. Any work to use the SDR would also have required crucial planning and futureproofing to accommodate a growing Newport. The southern motorway option would accommodate for a growing Newport. Like many others mention i also have my reservations regarding it conveniently being a Newport bypass (Welcome to Cardiff, gateway to Wales ;) ) but Newport would have a junction on both sides and still the existing M4 (downgraded) and it would be up to Newport to make the most of any development and encourage business to be built around it.. As for comments saying that in future traffic will only grow and another bypass will be required, if one isn’t built now it will only get worse regardless? The other option which may help is a comprehensive Metro system connecting south east wales region, Cardiff, Newport, valley areas. This would alleviate the current M4 of local traffic and leave the motorway for transport of goods and other non-local traffic to get further into Wales, Bridgend and Swansea. slice_of_life
  • Score: 23

9:09pm Wed 16 Jul 14

Brin88 says...

landyman3030 wrote:
The SDR was never going to be an option. Too many junctions, traffic lights, adjoining roads and roundabouts and Spytty Retail Park clog this route up daily without M4 traffic. I don't see why we need to make it accessible to Newport. The whole point is to get the traffic past Newport quickly and efficiently to open up Wales. If people want to access Wales they will use the m4 as is now. This could all change in 8 years anyway. With the way the WAG are hell bent on bankrupting Wales now this may never see fruition. Depends how many pound coins Sheriff Carwyn of Notinmybackyard can fleece out of the peasant class who try and take their kids on holiday.
Read the proposal for the A48 / Steelworks Access Road upgrade (NOT the Southern Distributor Road or SDR). The SDR is busy, the steelworks road is virtually empty at rush hour every evening.

It proposes spending of £380 million (not 1£ billion) with grade separated junctions on the A48 - ie the road will be raised above the level of the roundabouts in motorway style junctions and it will become a through road - basically like a dual carriageway. The roundabouts would go as will the traffic lights. It will also close some of the current junctions to reduce disruption from traffic coming on to it.

You would then have the existing M4 north of Newport AND a significantly upgraded A48 / Steelworks Road to cope with the traffic.

That plus the fact that the Welsh Government is spending £2 billion on public transport in south Wales (the Metro). Then remember that the governments own consultation says a significant % of M4 traffic around Newport is using the road as a local road - a significant portion of which might be able to switch to effective public transport.

Please inform yourselves of what you're talking about.
[quote][p][bold]landyman3030[/bold] wrote: The SDR was never going to be an option. Too many junctions, traffic lights, adjoining roads and roundabouts and Spytty Retail Park clog this route up daily without M4 traffic. I don't see why we need to make it accessible to Newport. The whole point is to get the traffic past Newport quickly and efficiently to open up Wales. If people want to access Wales they will use the m4 as is now. This could all change in 8 years anyway. With the way the WAG are hell bent on bankrupting Wales now this may never see fruition. Depends how many pound coins Sheriff Carwyn of Notinmybackyard can fleece out of the peasant class who try and take their kids on holiday.[/p][/quote]Read the proposal for the A48 / Steelworks Access Road upgrade (NOT the Southern Distributor Road or SDR). The SDR is busy, the steelworks road is virtually empty at rush hour every evening. It proposes spending of £380 million (not 1£ billion) with grade separated junctions on the A48 - ie the road will be raised above the level of the roundabouts in motorway style junctions and it will become a through road - basically like a dual carriageway. The roundabouts would go as will the traffic lights. It will also close some of the current junctions to reduce disruption from traffic coming on to it. You would then have the existing M4 north of Newport AND a significantly upgraded A48 / Steelworks Road to cope with the traffic. That plus the fact that the Welsh Government is spending £2 billion on public transport in south Wales (the Metro). Then remember that the governments own consultation says a significant % of M4 traffic around Newport is using the road as a local road - a significant portion of which might be able to switch to effective public transport. Please inform yourselves of what you're talking about. Brin88
  • Score: -4

9:26pm Wed 16 Jul 14

theviking666 says...

something need doing, but by-passing Newport means all the business can go to Cardiff unhindered, that suits the wags
something need doing, but by-passing Newport means all the business can go to Cardiff unhindered, that suits the wags theviking666
  • Score: -2

10:08pm Wed 16 Jul 14

Mr Bump. says...

keithbob wrote:
Mr Bump. wrote:
Are there to be any junctions joining the South of Newport with this option or is it to be a bypass of Newport? If it's the latter i fear it may be the final nail in Newports coffin.
if you want newport you stay on the existing m4.get real its obvious to the intelligent the new motorway will take away traffic only passing through to cardiff and beyond.
Are you all there? Newport Docks possibly the most inland port in Britain, is south of Newport, to not have a link up from this bypass is bloody stupid.
[quote][p][bold]keithbob[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Mr Bump.[/bold] wrote: Are there to be any junctions joining the South of Newport with this option or is it to be a bypass of Newport? If it's the latter i fear it may be the final nail in Newports coffin.[/p][/quote]if you want newport you stay on the existing m4.get real its obvious to the intelligent the new motorway will take away traffic only passing through to cardiff and beyond.[/p][/quote]Are you all there? Newport Docks possibly the most inland port in Britain, is south of Newport, to not have a link up from this bypass is bloody stupid. Mr Bump.
  • Score: 6

10:36pm Wed 16 Jul 14

keithbob says...

Mr Bump. wrote:
keithbob wrote:
Mr Bump. wrote:
Are there to be any junctions joining the South of Newport with this option or is it to be a bypass of Newport? If it's the latter i fear it may be the final nail in Newports coffin.
if you want newport you stay on the existing m4.get real its obvious to the intelligent the new motorway will take away traffic only passing through to cardiff and beyond.
Are you all there? Newport Docks possibly the most inland port in Britain, is south of Newport, to not have a link up from this bypass is bloody stupid.
so you stay on the m4,doh!
[quote][p][bold]Mr Bump.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]keithbob[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Mr Bump.[/bold] wrote: Are there to be any junctions joining the South of Newport with this option or is it to be a bypass of Newport? If it's the latter i fear it may be the final nail in Newports coffin.[/p][/quote]if you want newport you stay on the existing m4.get real its obvious to the intelligent the new motorway will take away traffic only passing through to cardiff and beyond.[/p][/quote]Are you all there? Newport Docks possibly the most inland port in Britain, is south of Newport, to not have a link up from this bypass is bloody stupid.[/p][/quote]so you stay on the m4,doh! keithbob
  • Score: 6

10:36pm Wed 16 Jul 14

slice_of_life says...

Mr Bump. wrote:
keithbob wrote:
Mr Bump. wrote:
Are there to be any junctions joining the South of Newport with this option or is it to be a bypass of Newport? If it's the latter i fear it may be the final nail in Newports coffin.
if you want newport you stay on the existing m4.get real its obvious to the intelligent the new motorway will take away traffic only passing through to cardiff and beyond.
Are you all there? Newport Docks possibly the most inland port in Britain, is south of Newport, to not have a link up from this bypass is bloody stupid.
I would also say it is important that any scheme does not hinder operation of the docks either. Hopefully they are both working together to ensure an optimum solution, especially given the ongoing investment in the docks. The docks are massively important, stuck out of the way they are often missed by many but provide a crucial source of income, jobs and development arising out of them. one would hope the new route maximises the docklands potential for growth serving south wales and beyond.
[quote][p][bold]Mr Bump.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]keithbob[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Mr Bump.[/bold] wrote: Are there to be any junctions joining the South of Newport with this option or is it to be a bypass of Newport? If it's the latter i fear it may be the final nail in Newports coffin.[/p][/quote]if you want newport you stay on the existing m4.get real its obvious to the intelligent the new motorway will take away traffic only passing through to cardiff and beyond.[/p][/quote]Are you all there? Newport Docks possibly the most inland port in Britain, is south of Newport, to not have a link up from this bypass is bloody stupid.[/p][/quote]I would also say it is important that any scheme does not hinder operation of the docks either. Hopefully they are both working together to ensure an optimum solution, especially given the ongoing investment in the docks. The docks are massively important, stuck out of the way they are often missed by many but provide a crucial source of income, jobs and development arising out of them. one would hope the new route maximises the docklands potential for growth serving south wales and beyond. slice_of_life
  • Score: 6

11:57pm Wed 16 Jul 14

landyman3030 says...

Brin88 wrote:
landyman3030 wrote:
The SDR was never going to be an option. Too many junctions, traffic lights, adjoining roads and roundabouts and Spytty Retail Park clog this route up daily without M4 traffic. I don't see why we need to make it accessible to Newport. The whole point is to get the traffic past Newport quickly and efficiently to open up Wales. If people want to access Wales they will use the m4 as is now. This could all change in 8 years anyway. With the way the WAG are hell bent on bankrupting Wales now this may never see fruition. Depends how many pound coins Sheriff Carwyn of Notinmybackyard can fleece out of the peasant class who try and take their kids on holiday.
Read the proposal for the A48 / Steelworks Access Road upgrade (NOT the Southern Distributor Road or SDR). The SDR is busy, the steelworks road is virtually empty at rush hour every evening.

It proposes spending of £380 million (not 1£ billion) with grade separated junctions on the A48 - ie the road will be raised above the level of the roundabouts in motorway style junctions and it will become a through road - basically like a dual carriageway. The roundabouts would go as will the traffic lights. It will also close some of the current junctions to reduce disruption from traffic coming on to it.

You would then have the existing M4 north of Newport AND a significantly upgraded A48 / Steelworks Road to cope with the traffic.

That plus the fact that the Welsh Government is spending £2 billion on public transport in south Wales (the Metro). Then remember that the governments own consultation says a significant % of M4 traffic around Newport is using the road as a local road - a significant portion of which might be able to switch to effective public transport.

Please inform yourselves of what you're talking about.
Grade separated junctions. Closed roads. Where exactly does the Newport traffic that contests the A48 go then? Public transport and the metro are pipe dreams. Have you seen the weekly cost of current public transport? The steelworks road is not deserted at all at peak times. It is just such a long stretch that traffic is spaced out. One slight wrong move on the M4 and it changes dramatically. A portion MIGHT change to public transport. People are lazy and want the most convenient. If car use is lessening, why is the Spytty car park and Tescos rammed daily. Double at weekends. Heidenheim Drive was put in place to ease congestion from Newport north. Watch what happens to Malpas when there is an accident on Heidenheim. EVerything INCLUDING public transport stops. If Newport loses the SDR junctions connecting Corporation Road and Docks Way what do you think will happen. Spending money we don't have on a scheme that doesn't fly! Sounds like the WAG alright.
[quote][p][bold]Brin88[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]landyman3030[/bold] wrote: The SDR was never going to be an option. Too many junctions, traffic lights, adjoining roads and roundabouts and Spytty Retail Park clog this route up daily without M4 traffic. I don't see why we need to make it accessible to Newport. The whole point is to get the traffic past Newport quickly and efficiently to open up Wales. If people want to access Wales they will use the m4 as is now. This could all change in 8 years anyway. With the way the WAG are hell bent on bankrupting Wales now this may never see fruition. Depends how many pound coins Sheriff Carwyn of Notinmybackyard can fleece out of the peasant class who try and take their kids on holiday.[/p][/quote]Read the proposal for the A48 / Steelworks Access Road upgrade (NOT the Southern Distributor Road or SDR). The SDR is busy, the steelworks road is virtually empty at rush hour every evening. It proposes spending of £380 million (not 1£ billion) with grade separated junctions on the A48 - ie the road will be raised above the level of the roundabouts in motorway style junctions and it will become a through road - basically like a dual carriageway. The roundabouts would go as will the traffic lights. It will also close some of the current junctions to reduce disruption from traffic coming on to it. You would then have the existing M4 north of Newport AND a significantly upgraded A48 / Steelworks Road to cope with the traffic. That plus the fact that the Welsh Government is spending £2 billion on public transport in south Wales (the Metro). Then remember that the governments own consultation says a significant % of M4 traffic around Newport is using the road as a local road - a significant portion of which might be able to switch to effective public transport. Please inform yourselves of what you're talking about.[/p][/quote]Grade separated junctions. Closed roads. Where exactly does the Newport traffic that contests the A48 go then? Public transport and the metro are pipe dreams. Have you seen the weekly cost of current public transport? The steelworks road is not deserted at all at peak times. It is just such a long stretch that traffic is spaced out. One slight wrong move on the M4 and it changes dramatically. A portion MIGHT change to public transport. People are lazy and want the most convenient. If car use is lessening, why is the Spytty car park and Tescos rammed daily. Double at weekends. Heidenheim Drive was put in place to ease congestion from Newport north. Watch what happens to Malpas when there is an accident on Heidenheim. EVerything INCLUDING public transport stops. If Newport loses the SDR junctions connecting Corporation Road and Docks Way what do you think will happen. Spending money we don't have on a scheme that doesn't fly! Sounds like the WAG alright. landyman3030
  • Score: 13

1:03am Thu 17 Jul 14

charlie, newport says...

There is a far better plan at m4newport.com click on 'preferred route' on the green bar and there is a link on the right just under the photo to a map that you can zoom in on.

It answers a couple of points raised above, showing two junctions, one South of Glan Llyn and one in the docks linking to the SDR between the landfill site and the Waterloo.

It also shows that it is nowhere near the wetlands Brin88, which were, as you say, built as compensation for Cardiff Bay in the 1990s/2000s. Think you might be getting confused with the Gwent Levels, which the road is on. The Levels were built by the Romans (ish). For humans.
There is a far better plan at m4newport.com click on 'preferred route' on the green bar and there is a link on the right just under the photo to a map that you can zoom in on. It answers a couple of points raised above, showing two junctions, one South of Glan Llyn and one in the docks linking to the SDR between the landfill site and the Waterloo. It also shows that it is nowhere near the wetlands Brin88, which were, as you say, built as compensation for Cardiff Bay in the 1990s/2000s. Think you might be getting confused with the Gwent Levels, which the road is on. The Levels were built by the Romans (ish). For humans. charlie, newport
  • Score: 6

5:48am Thu 17 Jul 14

anigel says...

Brin88 wrote:
Anigel that doesn't even make sense as a sentence written in English.

And while I'm at it, a number of you are thinking 2022 is a long time to build the road? At this stage the Government has only looked at what is possible at the very highest level. Read the documentation. It is full of caveats and comments about the need for thorough investigation of issues.

Think though the process of doing this, taking land from private owners (if it was your land would you want the opportunity to object?), holding a public inquiry where the very real issues which those living and running businesses nearby will have to be considered, surveying the site, drawing up plans, appointing the contractors, building a significant piece of road through wet and difficult terrain. And that's assuming no legal challenge. Aye sure we can knock that up in five minutes.

Or are you happy for the Welsh Government to spend what will be in reality well in excess of £1 billion of Welsh money without proper planning.

The next time those who are in favour of this road look at the mess their child's school building is in, or the local hospital, or are complaining about the literally hundreds of bottlenecks on road and rail across Wales remember that the Welsh Government is proposing to spend twice the £500m borrowing limit currently included in the Wales Bill which is going through Westminster on one project - i.e. they're spending the entire mortgage, all available borrowing, and at the very least the same again from their own budget, on one project delivered over 6-8 years. The TOTAL Welsh block grant is just £15 billion. Then remember the fact that you were delighted by the investment - and therefore presumably happy that your schools and hospitals are in dire condition.
It doesn't make any sense in the real world either but that doesn't stop everyone destroying the countryside by peppering it with huge wind turbines in locations where you would immediately be refused planning for even single story buildings because they would be classed as a blot on the landscape. Whilst these monstrosities can be seen for miles.
[quote][p][bold]Brin88[/bold] wrote: Anigel that doesn't even make sense as a sentence written in English. And while I'm at it, a number of you are thinking 2022 is a long time to build the road? At this stage the Government has only looked at what is possible at the very highest level. Read the documentation. It is full of caveats and comments about the need for thorough investigation of issues. Think though the process of doing this, taking land from private owners (if it was your land would you want the opportunity to object?), holding a public inquiry where the very real issues which those living and running businesses nearby will have to be considered, surveying the site, drawing up plans, appointing the contractors, building a significant piece of road through wet and difficult terrain. And that's assuming no legal challenge. Aye sure we can knock that up in five minutes. Or are you happy for the Welsh Government to spend what will be in reality well in excess of £1 billion of Welsh money without proper planning. The next time those who are in favour of this road look at the mess their child's school building is in, or the local hospital, or are complaining about the literally hundreds of bottlenecks on road and rail across Wales remember that the Welsh Government is proposing to spend twice the £500m borrowing limit currently included in the Wales Bill which is going through Westminster on one project - i.e. they're spending the entire mortgage, all available borrowing, and at the very least the same again from their own budget, on one project delivered over 6-8 years. The TOTAL Welsh block grant is just £15 billion. Then remember the fact that you were delighted by the investment - and therefore presumably happy that your schools and hospitals are in dire condition.[/p][/quote]It doesn't make any sense in the real world either but that doesn't stop everyone destroying the countryside by peppering it with huge wind turbines in locations where you would immediately be refused planning for even single story buildings because they would be classed as a blot on the landscape. Whilst these monstrosities can be seen for miles. anigel
  • Score: 3

5:51am Thu 17 Jul 14

anigel says...

Brin88 wrote:
landyman3030 wrote:
The SDR was never going to be an option. Too many junctions, traffic lights, adjoining roads and roundabouts and Spytty Retail Park clog this route up daily without M4 traffic. I don't see why we need to make it accessible to Newport. The whole point is to get the traffic past Newport quickly and efficiently to open up Wales. If people want to access Wales they will use the m4 as is now. This could all change in 8 years anyway. With the way the WAG are hell bent on bankrupting Wales now this may never see fruition. Depends how many pound coins Sheriff Carwyn of Notinmybackyard can fleece out of the peasant class who try and take their kids on holiday.
Read the proposal for the A48 / Steelworks Access Road upgrade (NOT the Southern Distributor Road or SDR). The SDR is busy, the steelworks road is virtually empty at rush hour every evening.

It proposes spending of £380 million (not 1£ billion) with grade separated junctions on the A48 - ie the road will be raised above the level of the roundabouts in motorway style junctions and it will become a through road - basically like a dual carriageway. The roundabouts would go as will the traffic lights. It will also close some of the current junctions to reduce disruption from traffic coming on to it.

You would then have the existing M4 north of Newport AND a significantly upgraded A48 / Steelworks Road to cope with the traffic.

That plus the fact that the Welsh Government is spending £2 billion on public transport in south Wales (the Metro). Then remember that the governments own consultation says a significant % of M4 traffic around Newport is using the road as a local road - a significant portion of which might be able to switch to effective public transport.

Please inform yourselves of what you're talking about.
Which does bugger all to improve the motorway for those going beyond the centre of Newport.

The SDR has great difficulty handling current traffic loads, let alone if you expect to divert a major chunk of the current motorway traffic straight to it.

Please actually read what people are attempting to do before ripping into people who obviously have spent more time, and have a better understanding of the issues than you do.
[quote][p][bold]Brin88[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]landyman3030[/bold] wrote: The SDR was never going to be an option. Too many junctions, traffic lights, adjoining roads and roundabouts and Spytty Retail Park clog this route up daily without M4 traffic. I don't see why we need to make it accessible to Newport. The whole point is to get the traffic past Newport quickly and efficiently to open up Wales. If people want to access Wales they will use the m4 as is now. This could all change in 8 years anyway. With the way the WAG are hell bent on bankrupting Wales now this may never see fruition. Depends how many pound coins Sheriff Carwyn of Notinmybackyard can fleece out of the peasant class who try and take their kids on holiday.[/p][/quote]Read the proposal for the A48 / Steelworks Access Road upgrade (NOT the Southern Distributor Road or SDR). The SDR is busy, the steelworks road is virtually empty at rush hour every evening. It proposes spending of £380 million (not 1£ billion) with grade separated junctions on the A48 - ie the road will be raised above the level of the roundabouts in motorway style junctions and it will become a through road - basically like a dual carriageway. The roundabouts would go as will the traffic lights. It will also close some of the current junctions to reduce disruption from traffic coming on to it. You would then have the existing M4 north of Newport AND a significantly upgraded A48 / Steelworks Road to cope with the traffic. That plus the fact that the Welsh Government is spending £2 billion on public transport in south Wales (the Metro). Then remember that the governments own consultation says a significant % of M4 traffic around Newport is using the road as a local road - a significant portion of which might be able to switch to effective public transport. Please inform yourselves of what you're talking about.[/p][/quote]Which does bugger all to improve the motorway for those going beyond the centre of Newport. The SDR has great difficulty handling current traffic loads, let alone if you expect to divert a major chunk of the current motorway traffic straight to it. Please actually read what people are attempting to do before ripping into people who obviously have spent more time, and have a better understanding of the issues than you do. anigel
  • Score: 6

8:47am Thu 17 Jul 14

JJ1980 says...

The headline could say "£1,000 of free money for every Gwent resident" and you'd still find people on here moaning!

It's quite obvious that the people who want to travel somewhere past Newport will stay on the relief road and people who want to go to Newport will use the old M4 road. It's not rocket science. The only difference is that it won't be so congested.

I'd like to see if there is provision for a new motorway services along the new road. Newport could do with the jobs and it would be a great place to promote the city!
The headline could say "£1,000 of free money for every Gwent resident" and you'd still find people on here moaning! It's quite obvious that the people who want to travel somewhere past Newport will stay on the relief road and people who want to go to Newport will use the old M4 road. It's not rocket science. The only difference is that it won't be so congested. I'd like to see if there is provision for a new motorway services along the new road. Newport could do with the jobs and it would be a great place to promote the city! JJ1980
  • Score: 7

9:07am Thu 17 Jul 14

Evil Flanker says...

Evil Flanker wrote:
Could we get a map that you can zoom into for this ?

It's a little too small to make out exactly where it goes.
Thank you Argus..
[quote][p][bold]Evil Flanker[/bold] wrote: Could we get a map that you can zoom into for this ? It's a little too small to make out exactly where it goes.[/p][/quote]Thank you Argus.. Evil Flanker
  • Score: -1

9:57am Thu 17 Jul 14

Walter Devereux says...

JJ1980 wrote:
The headline could say "£1,000 of free money for every Gwent resident" and you'd still find people on here moaning!

It's quite obvious that the people who want to travel somewhere past Newport will stay on the relief road and people who want to go to Newport will use the old M4 road. It's not rocket science. The only difference is that it won't be so congested.

I'd like to see if there is provision for a new motorway services along the new road. Newport could do with the jobs and it would be a great place to promote the city!
Except they are planning on downgrading the existing road from motorway and filling it with roundabouts and traffic lights. All those valley communities that pride themselves on being "only X minutes from the M4!" are going to be rightly annoyed. It should stay a motorway, as an extension of the M48.
[quote][p][bold]JJ1980[/bold] wrote: The headline could say "£1,000 of free money for every Gwent resident" and you'd still find people on here moaning! It's quite obvious that the people who want to travel somewhere past Newport will stay on the relief road and people who want to go to Newport will use the old M4 road. It's not rocket science. The only difference is that it won't be so congested. I'd like to see if there is provision for a new motorway services along the new road. Newport could do with the jobs and it would be a great place to promote the city![/p][/quote]Except they are planning on downgrading the existing road from motorway and filling it with roundabouts and traffic lights. All those valley communities that pride themselves on being "only X minutes from the M4!" are going to be rightly annoyed. It should stay a motorway, as an extension of the M48. Walter Devereux
  • Score: 8

10:28am Thu 17 Jul 14

jimmytheone2 says...

cjwales1 wrote:
Great News for all !!!! Cant see how it would take 8yrs tho ?????
At least those in power have actually realised that birds, newts, worms will actually move 50m either side of the the new motorway, as they have done with the Second Severn Crossing...
Maybe the left wing tree huggers can find a worthy cause to support rather than creating unneeded beaurocracy for some time that has been overdue for years !!!!
There isn't much green space left in the UK.
A 6 lane motorway will take huge chunk out of what green space there is left around Newport.
And much of that green space are Sites of Special Scientific Interest (SSIs). There's a clue in the title there CJ, and I'd hope I don't need to spell it out. But there aren't many left - you can't simply replace them.

I think many will recognise the need for some action; I don't think there will be many who say nothing needs to be done. But a lot of the dismay at this announcement is that there are far cheaper options, and that will be completed years ahead of this option (have you ever known a major government project delivered remotely on time or within budget?). And the icing on the cake, is that those other options won't have such a negative impact on the environment.
So even some business groups think this is the wrong decision. They want a quicker easing of the problem - 8+ years is a long way off. And because they have chosen the route likely to cause most environmental damage, there are risks of legal challenge which could delay it further.
[quote][p][bold]cjwales1[/bold] wrote: Great News for all !!!! Cant see how it would take 8yrs tho ????? At least those in power have actually realised that birds, newts, worms will actually move 50m either side of the the new motorway, as they have done with the Second Severn Crossing... Maybe the left wing tree huggers can find a worthy cause to support rather than creating unneeded beaurocracy for some time that has been overdue for years !!!![/p][/quote]There isn't much green space left in the UK. A 6 lane motorway will take huge chunk out of what green space there is left around Newport. And much of that green space are Sites of Special Scientific Interest (SSIs). There's a clue in the title there CJ, and I'd hope I don't need to spell it out. But there aren't many left - you can't simply replace them. I think many will recognise the need for some action; I don't think there will be many who say nothing needs to be done. But a lot of the dismay at this announcement is that there are far cheaper options, and that will be completed years ahead of this option (have you ever known a major government project delivered remotely on time or within budget?). And the icing on the cake, is that those other options won't have such a negative impact on the environment. So even some business groups think this is the wrong decision. They want a quicker easing of the problem - 8+ years is a long way off. And because they have chosen the route likely to cause most environmental damage, there are risks of legal challenge which could delay it further. jimmytheone2
  • Score: -3

10:34am Thu 17 Jul 14

jimmytheone2 says...

Nospin_1 wrote:
Anyone seriously suggesting the SDR option has clearly never been on it when the motorway is closed and has never queued to join the motorway at Tredegar house any working day of the week.

It is a fact the we are more important than a few voles and newts, anyway some of the best wildlife sanctuaries are motorway verges because people are not allowed there and as someone has pointed out the wild life is doing fine in the Somerset levels, other than lack of dredging drowning all of it ( not the newts).

Get real this road is absolutely essential for a business expanding South Wales, get digging now, any AM objecting to it should be immediately deselected for lack of common sense.
I didn't realise you were an expert on how wildlife and fauna adapts to major environmental projects like this. Your words are reassuring. What's all the concern about then - all those scientists and highly trained specialists have got it wrong. What do they know eh? The Welsh Government should have gone straight to you for their expert advice.
[quote][p][bold]Nospin_1[/bold] wrote: Anyone seriously suggesting the SDR option has clearly never been on it when the motorway is closed and has never queued to join the motorway at Tredegar house any working day of the week. It is a fact the we are more important than a few voles and newts, anyway some of the best wildlife sanctuaries are motorway verges because people are not allowed there and as someone has pointed out the wild life is doing fine in the Somerset levels, other than lack of dredging drowning all of it ( not the newts). Get real this road is absolutely essential for a business expanding South Wales, get digging now, any AM objecting to it should be immediately deselected for lack of common sense.[/p][/quote]I didn't realise you were an expert on how wildlife and fauna adapts to major environmental projects like this. Your words are reassuring. What's all the concern about then - all those scientists and highly trained specialists have got it wrong. What do they know eh? The Welsh Government should have gone straight to you for their expert advice. jimmytheone2
  • Score: -2

10:40am Thu 17 Jul 14

jimmytheone2 says...

Limestonecowboy wrote:
Like the mural all of a sudden theres outcry over something no -one really cares about what do these greenies want to happen - nothing probably.
Did no one really care about the mural? You may not have, but I think many did. You'd have probably been happy to see the mural replaced with a KFC - that's progress for people like you.
[quote][p][bold]Limestonecowboy[/bold] wrote: Like the mural all of a sudden theres outcry over something no -one really cares about what do these greenies want to happen - nothing probably.[/p][/quote]Did no one really care about the mural? You may not have, but I think many did. You'd have probably been happy to see the mural replaced with a KFC - that's progress for people like you. jimmytheone2
  • Score: -9

10:47am Thu 17 Jul 14

-trigg- says...

The people who have commented without mentioning the other proposed routes have done so for the simple reason that they are unworkable, impractical and will not achieve the required aims.

The 'black route' is quite simply the best option available, allowing the existing M4 to be converted into a Northern ring road and providing Newport with direct links to the new M4 to the East and West. This allows local traffic to be separated from through traffic, meaning both sets of drivers can move more freely and get to their destinations quicker.
The people who have commented without mentioning the other proposed routes have done so for the simple reason that they are unworkable, impractical and will not achieve the required aims. The 'black route' is quite simply the best option available, allowing the existing M4 to be converted into a Northern ring road and providing Newport with direct links to the new M4 to the East and West. This allows local traffic to be separated from through traffic, meaning both sets of drivers can move more freely and get to their destinations quicker. -trigg-
  • Score: 9

11:09am Thu 17 Jul 14

fordy_deluxe says...

Wont they have to re number every junction all the way up the m4 to 49? Or will the 2 new ones become j24 and j25 then a huge gap to where it joins at castleton already being j29?
Wont they have to re number every junction all the way up the m4 to 49? Or will the 2 new ones become j24 and j25 then a huge gap to where it joins at castleton already being j29? fordy_deluxe
  • Score: 3

11:20am Thu 17 Jul 14

artsfan says...

Dave on his Soapbox wrote:
'Paxman's Army says...
Rushed through a bit, wasn't it?'

.......10 months to a General Election....they need something positive to get them re-elected......

As with everything.....if you don't bother voting you can't complain if you get things you don't want.....

Although they promise a lot and deliver little.....
I will never vote again, but perhaps will go along to spoil my ballot paper. Any vote seems to be a vote for war, with a good chance of voting for paedophiles or people willing to cover up for them. At the end of the day there are always going to be the super rich who are on extreme power trips in government, nobody who truly represents the majority of the people.
[quote][p][bold]Dave on his Soapbox[/bold] wrote: 'Paxman's Army says... Rushed through a bit, wasn't it?' .......10 months to a General Election....they need something positive to get them re-elected...... As with everything.....if you don't bother voting you can't complain if you get things you don't want..... Although they promise a lot and deliver little.....[/p][/quote]I will never vote again, but perhaps will go along to spoil my ballot paper. Any vote seems to be a vote for war, with a good chance of voting for paedophiles or people willing to cover up for them. At the end of the day there are always going to be the super rich who are on extreme power trips in government, nobody who truly represents the majority of the people. artsfan
  • Score: -2

12:11pm Thu 17 Jul 14

Paxman's Army says...

It's mathtime kids. Let's see if you can add these sums together?

£400 million for a new Blue Route option to relieve congestion
+ £300 million for a new critical care hospital to help patient care in Gwent

For an extra bonus. . .subtract that sum from the cost of a controversial M4 Relief Road that was rushed through before any environmental impact statements could be analysed.
It's mathtime kids. Let's see if you can add these sums together? £400 million for a new Blue Route option to relieve congestion + £300 million for a new critical care hospital to help patient care in Gwent For an extra bonus. . .subtract that sum from the cost of a controversial M4 Relief Road that was rushed through before any environmental impact statements could be analysed. Paxman's Army
  • Score: -8

1:41pm Thu 17 Jul 14

jimmytheone2 says...

John_frost wrote:
The same people against this are the same lot who opposed friars walk shopping, Nato summit, new train station, Ryder cup and . These people are just anti progress and would prefer to just moan about costs. This is what INVESTMENT looks like.
C'mon, think a little wider.
Where do you think £1 billion comes from?
It has to be borrowed, and then paid back. It isn't a freebie.
Yes, you, me and every other taxpayer in Wales will need to pay it back - for many, many years. And that will mean less to spend on health, education, and other essential services for a long time.
Still a good investment - when there are cheaper alternatives?
If you want a good summary of the issues, go to the following in the South Wales Echo. I'd have thought they will struggle to get this started by 2022, never mind finished by then.
http://www.walesonli
ne.co.uk/news/wales-
news/m4-relief-road-
new-m4-7439613
[quote][p][bold]John_frost[/bold] wrote: The same people against this are the same lot who opposed friars walk shopping, Nato summit, new train station, Ryder cup and . These people are just anti progress and would prefer to just moan about costs. This is what INVESTMENT looks like.[/p][/quote]C'mon, think a little wider. Where do you think £1 billion comes from? It has to be borrowed, and then paid back. It isn't a freebie. Yes, you, me and every other taxpayer in Wales will need to pay it back - for many, many years. And that will mean less to spend on health, education, and other essential services for a long time. Still a good investment - when there are cheaper alternatives? If you want a good summary of the issues, go to the following in the South Wales Echo. I'd have thought they will struggle to get this started by 2022, never mind finished by then. http://www.walesonli ne.co.uk/news/wales- news/m4-relief-road- new-m4-7439613 jimmytheone2
  • Score: 3

1:46pm Thu 17 Jul 14

WelshMatt says...

Brin88 wrote:
Listen chaps, the point is that the wetlands are already compensatory habit created when the Cardiff Barrage was built to comply with environmental legislation. The Government is likely to find out that they CANNOT build on it.

Plus, from an environmental point of view the damage isn't just about the width of the road, it has wider implications - for example water run off carrying chemicals which will poison a SSSI (which stands for Site of Special Scientific Interest - one of the most protected areas in Britain).

The main issue here is that the government has cocked up the legal / environmental assesment process because they don't actually understand it, and are likely to spend years in court. You want a road? You wont see this one for decades - which is one point the FSB make.

And yes it does by pass Newport without junctions. Which WILL damage the Newport economy which is another point the FSB make. Essentially this will be good for the economy of England and Ireland at either end.
At last someone with common sense.
I can't believe the number of votes cjwales1 is getting - from all of their short-sighted and misinformed ramblings.
Not everyone who objects to this plan has to be a member of the green brigade but FoE & RSPB have valid concerns which the WAG have completely overlooked.

Plus - how will this help all of the traffic from Scotland, North of England, Midlands etc. which will still come via Coldra!

Progress does need to be made, but this isn't progress, and only a fool would say we're more important that the voles and birds that habit the land.

I'm sure you don't believe in climate change either.
[quote][p][bold]Brin88[/bold] wrote: Listen chaps, the point is that the wetlands are already compensatory habit created when the Cardiff Barrage was built to comply with environmental legislation. The Government is likely to find out that they CANNOT build on it. Plus, from an environmental point of view the damage isn't just about the width of the road, it has wider implications - for example water run off carrying chemicals which will poison a SSSI (which stands for Site of Special Scientific Interest - one of the most protected areas in Britain). The main issue here is that the government has cocked up the legal / environmental assesment process because they don't actually understand it, and are likely to spend years in court. You want a road? You wont see this one for decades - which is one point the FSB make. And yes it does by pass Newport without junctions. Which WILL damage the Newport economy which is another point the FSB make. Essentially this will be good for the economy of England and Ireland at either end.[/p][/quote]At last someone with common sense. I can't believe the number of votes cjwales1 is getting - from all of their short-sighted and misinformed ramblings. Not everyone who objects to this plan has to be a member of the green brigade but FoE & RSPB have valid concerns which the WAG have completely overlooked. Plus - how will this help all of the traffic from Scotland, North of England, Midlands etc. which will still come via Coldra! Progress does need to be made, but this isn't progress, and only a fool would say we're more important that the voles and birds that habit the land. I'm sure you don't believe in climate change either. WelshMatt
  • Score: 3

10:39pm Thu 17 Jul 14

Ollie254 says...

Well done Ms Hart......progress at last and the greenies put in their place. A good day for South Wales now let's have some more.
Well done Ms Hart......progress at last and the greenies put in their place. A good day for South Wales now let's have some more. Ollie254
  • Score: 0

9:38am Fri 18 Jul 14

displayed says...

Phew, what a relief, so now Newport’s gonna have an expensive by- pass, cos that’s what it really is.
Du think there trying to tell us something, when its built and open, it will soon fill up.
Then there gonna have to think about nother one, how bout one going thro the town centre, its not used much anyway..............
.....
Phew, what a relief, so now Newport’s gonna have an expensive by- pass, cos that’s what it really is. Du think there trying to tell us something, when its built and open, it will soon fill up. Then there gonna have to think about nother one, how bout one going thro the town centre, its not used much anyway.............. ..... displayed
  • Score: -1

10:38am Fri 18 Jul 14

Walter Devereux says...

fordy_deluxe wrote:
Wont they have to re number every junction all the way up the m4 to 49? Or will the 2 new ones become j24 and j25 then a huge gap to where it joins at castleton already being j29?
J23a will probably become J24, Then the ones either side of the River Usk could be J26 and J27 leaving only single number gaps and scope for extra junctions.
[quote][p][bold]fordy_deluxe[/bold] wrote: Wont they have to re number every junction all the way up the m4 to 49? Or will the 2 new ones become j24 and j25 then a huge gap to where it joins at castleton already being j29?[/p][/quote]J23a will probably become J24, Then the ones either side of the River Usk could be J26 and J27 leaving only single number gaps and scope for extra junctions. Walter Devereux
  • Score: 2

10:51am Fri 18 Jul 14

pinkgirl23 says...

They should bulid it through alway and ringland to disperse the some of the drugs gangs and undesirables of these areas and this is from someone who lives there!!
They should bulid it through alway and ringland to disperse the some of the drugs gangs and undesirables of these areas and this is from someone who lives there!! pinkgirl23
  • Score: 0

12:09am Mon 21 Jul 14

Johnb72 says...

Disgraceful, a barbed arrow through the lungs of wales. I am so surprised that people don't appreciate the importance of the Gwent Levels but then if you are used to it you take it for granted. Research light pollution effects on a Nature, noise pollution effects on nature and then the chemical heavy metal run off. In 2014 putting a road through over 7 sites of scientific importance without researching fully alternatives and I don't buy that the tunnels can't be widened with modern engineering. As a nation the Welsh should respect the rich natural heritage and go the extra mile to protect it. Set an example and show how it can be done without destroying your ecosystem. History and the children will view this as a huge mistake. And they will be the ones paying for it ! Don't believe it will be a Billion these things always go way over. Do the Welsh really not value the most important national treasures. There are other options and I think the name BLACK route or road will stick negatively through time.
Disgraceful, a barbed arrow through the lungs of wales. I am so surprised that people don't appreciate the importance of the Gwent Levels but then if you are used to it you take it for granted. Research light pollution effects on a Nature, noise pollution effects on nature and then the chemical heavy metal run off. In 2014 putting a road through over 7 sites of scientific importance without researching fully alternatives and I don't buy that the tunnels can't be widened with modern engineering. As a nation the Welsh should respect the rich natural heritage and go the extra mile to protect it. Set an example and show how it can be done without destroying your ecosystem. History and the children will view this as a huge mistake. And they will be the ones paying for it ! Don't believe it will be a Billion these things always go way over. Do the Welsh really not value the most important national treasures. There are other options and I think the name BLACK route or road will stick negatively through time. Johnb72
  • Score: 1

12:14am Tue 22 Jul 14

Johnb72 says...

Ollie254 wrote:
Well done Ms Hart......progress at last and the greenies put in their place. A good day for South Wales now let's have some more.
Well if you view progress as going backwards then yes.
[quote][p][bold]Ollie254[/bold] wrote: Well done Ms Hart......progress at last and the greenies put in their place. A good day for South Wales now let's have some more.[/p][/quote]Well if you view progress as going backwards then yes. Johnb72
  • Score: 0

12:21am Tue 22 Jul 14

Johnb72 says...

cjwales1 wrote:
Paxman's Army wrote:
Absolutely CJ. To hell with any natural beauty we have left. What's the point, eh? And why not spend a fortune more on an M4 Relief Road than upgrades to the existing roads, eh? You like shelling out money, doncha CJ? Oh you didn't read how traffic consultants favoured those less expensive options? Of course you didn't.
Oh get real !!!!!!
What the SDR option ???? if you are not commuting on your ethnic peace bike you will know this is gridlocked at least once a week, normally coinciding with the M4 being gridlocked also.

Nature isnt gonna suffer, just take a walk along the Second Severn Crossing route and it has some of the most diverse fauna and flora in this part of the world !!!!

Seems the Green/ tree huggers need to find a new cause as this is going through now !!!! Maybe try the race track in the valleys , am sure they need a few more greenies to get some new opinions !!!

Meanwhile the rest of the real working population can look forward to some progress !!!!
Love it when people who don't know very much spout on like experts ! ' just take a walk along the severn crossing route the flora and fauna is thriving ' thanks professor were did you get that scientific deduction from, is it because it looks all green and stuff.
I think you are not really worried about any effects on the environment so long as you get to work early enough for a coffee.
[quote][p][bold]cjwales1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Paxman's Army[/bold] wrote: Absolutely CJ. To hell with any natural beauty we have left. What's the point, eh? And why not spend a fortune more on an M4 Relief Road than upgrades to the existing roads, eh? You like shelling out money, doncha CJ? Oh you didn't read how traffic consultants favoured those less expensive options? Of course you didn't.[/p][/quote]Oh get real !!!!!! What the SDR option ???? if you are not commuting on your ethnic peace bike you will know this is gridlocked at least once a week, normally coinciding with the M4 being gridlocked also. Nature isnt gonna suffer, just take a walk along the Second Severn Crossing route and it has some of the most diverse fauna and flora in this part of the world !!!! Seems the Green/ tree huggers need to find a new cause as this is going through now !!!! Maybe try the race track in the valleys , am sure they need a few more greenies to get some new opinions !!! Meanwhile the rest of the real working population can look forward to some progress !!!![/p][/quote]Love it when people who don't know very much spout on like experts ! ' just take a walk along the severn crossing route the flora and fauna is thriving ' thanks professor were did you get that scientific deduction from, is it because it looks all green and stuff. I think you are not really worried about any effects on the environment so long as you get to work early enough for a coffee. Johnb72
  • Score: 0

Comments are closed on this article.

Send us your news, pictures and videos

Most read stories

Local Info

Enter your postcode, town or place name

About cookies

We want you to enjoy your visit to our website. That's why we use cookies to enhance your experience. By staying on our website you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more about the cookies we use.

I agree