Wales 12 Argentina 26

South Wales Argus: Awful Wales hammered by plucky Argentinians Awful Wales hammered by plucky Argentinians

A TRULY awful Wales were hammered by the plucky Los Pumas of Argentina to succumb to a fourth successive defeat that sees the alarm bells truly ringing for caretaker coach Rob Howley.

With Samoa, New Zealand and Australia to come, Wales are in serious danger of a whitewash this autumn.

While Argentina played with passion and purpose, the home side were a rabble in contrast and created next to nothing.

As the game wore on, the home scrum disintegrated and the lineout became the old familiar lottery.

Wales look toothless upfront without the likes of Adam Jones, Dan Lydiate and Ryan Jones, bullied by the far superior Argentina eight.

The back row, Newport Gwent Dragons No 8 Toby Faletau aside, were anonymous, captain and openside Sam Warburton and blindside Josh Turnbull both terrible and outplayed by the superb Argentina back row.

The Grand Slam joy of last March seems a million miles away.

A turgid and eminently forgettable first half saw Wales lead 9-6 at the interval after three Leigh Halfpenny penalties to one by Felipe Contepomi and a drop goal by outside half Nicolas Sanchez.

The stories of the half were tight defences and the big injury toll, Los Pumas’ star veteran centre Felipe Contepomi stretchered off after just 13 minutes.

His opposite number Jamie Roberts followed him off the field just ten minutes later after he picked up a bump on the chin, the French bound Cardiff Blues man replaced by Perpignan’s James Hook.

Wales didn’t get into the visitors’ half until the 37th minute when George North and Alex Cuthbert were used as battering rams but excellent defence kept them out, the hosts conceded a penalty.

Argentina came close to scoring a breakaway try just before half time as did Wales when Hook hacked on in the dying seconds.

And there was further bad news before the interval when lock Alun Wyn Jones was forced off with an arm injury to be replaced by Scarlets captain, back rower Rob McCusker, Wales not having a second row on the bench.

Sanchez could have put Argentina at least level when he missed two kickable penalties at the start of the second half.

But it was Halfpenny who stretched Wales’ lead when he kicked his fourth penalty after 48 minutes to put them 12-6 up.

Sanchez clawed back three points soon after with his second drop goal.

Juan Imhoff’s great finish, and some poor defence by Halfpenny, gave Los Pumas the lead they thoroughly deserved after 55 minutes, his try converted by Sanchez.

Another superb finish saw fellow wing Gonzalo Camacho cross in the corner after 60 minutes, Sanchez nailing a superb conversion.

The score was 23-12 and a poor Wales were all at sea.

They lamely threatened to make a game of it in the last quarter but the closest they came was when replacement McCusker butchered a stick on try that would have given the dreadful hosts a consolation score they scarcely deserved.

Wales were booed off the field by the fans who had the stomach to stay until the end.

Wales scorers: Penalties – Leigh Halfpenny (6, 14, 26, 48).

Argentina scorers: Tries – Juan Imhoff (55), Gonzalo Camacho (60), Conversions – Nicolas Sanchez (55, 60), Penalties – Felipe Contepomi (4), Drop goals – N Sanchez (10, 52, 72)

Referee: Romain Poite (France)

Attendance: 51,443

Comments (30)

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5:31pm Sat 10 Nov 12

Robert Shillabeer says...

Very poor all round performance. Toby tried hard but made a few mistakes but was probably the best Welsh player out there today. On looking back at the game i feel Howley has failed to put out a team with belief they could win. Wales without Warren Gatland are a ship without a rudder. There is one chance to turn it round this coming Friday but lose that one and it will be a massive hill to climb to stay number 5 in the world rankings and that will cause serious problems for the next World Cup.
Very poor all round performance. Toby tried hard but made a few mistakes but was probably the best Welsh player out there today. On looking back at the game i feel Howley has failed to put out a team with belief they could win. Wales without Warren Gatland are a ship without a rudder. There is one chance to turn it round this coming Friday but lose that one and it will be a massive hill to climb to stay number 5 in the world rankings and that will cause serious problems for the next World Cup. Robert Shillabeer

5:54pm Sat 10 Nov 12

Dai the Milk says...

With grass roots rugby and 'regional' rugby in tatters, what do we expect?
With grass roots rugby and 'regional' rugby in tatters, what do we expect? Dai the Milk

6:07pm Sat 10 Nov 12

The People's Republic of Newp says...

Dai the Milk wrote:
With grass roots rugby and 'regional' rugby in tatters, what do we expect?
Precisely.
[quote][p][bold]Dai the Milk[/bold] wrote: With grass roots rugby and 'regional' rugby in tatters, what do we expect?[/p][/quote]Precisely. The People's Republic of Newp

7:14pm Sat 10 Nov 12

Dai the Milk says...

Is there any coincidence in the fact that the Pumas have played this year at a consistently high level whilst the Welsh players for their 'regions' have played at a consistently low level.....and usually lost in the process. The Pumas arrive battle-hardened against the best in the world while we play the Zebre and Connaught.....and all 4 clubs already out of the Heineken Cup. Hmmmmm. A week in Poland in ice chambers is no substitute for regular, competitive, high class rugby. Also, the Irish have mature regional rugby. We have 4 struggling clubs masquerading as regions. The Irish on the other hand have 3 very strong set-ups with large crowds and a thriving game. Will we ever learn? How much longer can this Welsh hotch-potch rubbish continue to be served? NZ, OZ, Ireland, Scotland and SA all have proper regions. France and England have club rugby. There are no half-way houses anywhere else in the world.
Is there any coincidence in the fact that the Pumas have played this year at a consistently high level whilst the Welsh players for their 'regions' have played at a consistently low level.....and usually lost in the process. The Pumas arrive battle-hardened against the best in the world while we play the Zebre and Connaught.....and all 4 clubs already out of the Heineken Cup. Hmmmmm. A week in Poland in ice chambers is no substitute for regular, competitive, high class rugby. Also, the Irish have mature regional rugby. We have 4 struggling clubs masquerading as regions. The Irish on the other hand have 3 very strong set-ups with large crowds and a thriving game. Will we ever learn? How much longer can this Welsh hotch-potch rubbish continue to be served? NZ, OZ, Ireland, Scotland and SA all have proper regions. France and England have club rugby. There are no half-way houses anywhere else in the world. Dai the Milk

8:43pm Sat 10 Nov 12

rightsideup says...

Well said,Dai..
Well said,Dai.. rightsideup

8:44pm Sat 10 Nov 12

Keith Barnett says...

Chickens home roost
Chickens home roost Keith Barnett

9:14pm Sat 10 Nov 12

signal box says...

Wales were rubbish next week please select Phillips @ 9 and Hook @ 10
Wales were rubbish next week please select Phillips @ 9 and Hook @ 10 signal box

9:51pm Sat 10 Nov 12

Euwan Usami says...

In fairness the was the first game together for the squad while the pumas were comming off the back of a good tournament and had the edge as a result. This is the longest the pumas had ever spent together. If Wales had played them after the Australian tour it would have been different. Having said that it was a very flat performance not helped by shunning Philips for the first half and persevering with priestland rather than the in form Bigger. Wales can only improve after that surely. The regional argument is a complex one and the existing regions are facing difficult times but despite this, two of them are still doing well. Remember any improvement or change to the existing set up would cost big money that isn't around. I also believe that, if you add up all attendances in all levels of rugby in Wales in any given week it would be less than the capacity of the stadium. Simply put there isn't the support for club or regional rugby in Wales. It has always been about the national identity for most.
In fairness the was the first game together for the squad while the pumas were comming off the back of a good tournament and had the edge as a result. This is the longest the pumas had ever spent together. If Wales had played them after the Australian tour it would have been different. Having said that it was a very flat performance not helped by shunning Philips for the first half and persevering with priestland rather than the in form Bigger. Wales can only improve after that surely. The regional argument is a complex one and the existing regions are facing difficult times but despite this, two of them are still doing well. Remember any improvement or change to the existing set up would cost big money that isn't around. I also believe that, if you add up all attendances in all levels of rugby in Wales in any given week it would be less than the capacity of the stadium. Simply put there isn't the support for club or regional rugby in Wales. It has always been about the national identity for most. Euwan Usami

9:41am Sun 11 Nov 12

saltheartfoamfollower says...

CRYotherapy in Poland,CRYing therapy and CRYogenics in Cardiff what a waste of time and money,money that could be put to much better use considering the state of the game in Wales in general.
A totally inept performance(Toby apart) by a side that acted with the arrogance of world champions in waiting but never left the starting grid .
Lacking in structure,ideas, and leadership it was pathetic.Warburton for Lions captain is laughable.Without Danny in the side to do all the hard graft he's just another bog standard 7 who reaps all the glory and Wynn Jones? well nuff said.
CRYotherapy in Poland,CRYing therapy and CRYogenics in Cardiff what a waste of time and money,money that could be put to much better use considering the state of the game in Wales in general. A totally inept performance(Toby apart) by a side that acted with the arrogance of world champions in waiting but never left the starting grid . Lacking in structure,ideas, and leadership it was pathetic.Warburton for Lions captain is laughable.Without Danny in the side to do all the hard graft he's just another bog standard 7 who reaps all the glory and Wynn Jones? well nuff said. saltheartfoamfollower

10:33am Sun 11 Nov 12

East Newport Dave says...

Not making too many excuses, Wales were poor. But we are flogging our players to death. Toby had a good game but is knackered. In world cup year he played all winter before it, then trained all summer, then the world cup and took 2 weeks off before playing again for the region. The WRU are mindlessly flogging the players for profit because they have no other income stream outside the international set up. If they could get the tiers below that right then there would be less financial pressure. What a mess! -
Home grown Welsh coaches? The cupboard is bare. Howley is nowhere near the calibre required.
Not making too many excuses, Wales were poor. But we are flogging our players to death. Toby had a good game but is knackered. In world cup year he played all winter before it, then trained all summer, then the world cup and took 2 weeks off before playing again for the region. The WRU are mindlessly flogging the players for profit because they have no other income stream outside the international set up. If they could get the tiers below that right then there would be less financial pressure. What a mess! - Home grown Welsh coaches? The cupboard is bare. Howley is nowhere near the calibre required. East Newport Dave

12:08pm Sun 11 Nov 12

Dai the Milk says...

The bubble of temporary international success has burst. It was a house built on sand. Sort the 'regions' out. Either form regions or give it entirely to the four clubs. At the moment this mongrel creation is attracting no support, no income, no top flight players and no success. Change it and we just might get sustainable, consistent top class rugby here. Then the knock on effect will be a national side that can compete against the best on a regular basis.
The bubble of temporary international success has burst. It was a house built on sand. Sort the 'regions' out. Either form regions or give it entirely to the four clubs. At the moment this mongrel creation is attracting no support, no income, no top flight players and no success. Change it and we just might get sustainable, consistent top class rugby here. Then the knock on effect will be a national side that can compete against the best on a regular basis. Dai the Milk

4:37pm Sun 11 Nov 12

ebbwman1 says...

Toby played well. Wyn-jones was a disgrace, Jamie Roberts was poor and priestland needs to take a seat for a few weeks. Let hook play 10. I have no faith in howley. A great player in his day but yet another coach in the welsh setup with no pedigree. Please come back warren.
Toby played well. Wyn-jones was a disgrace, Jamie Roberts was poor and priestland needs to take a seat for a few weeks. Let hook play 10. I have no faith in howley. A great player in his day but yet another coach in the welsh setup with no pedigree. Please come back warren. ebbwman1

6:06pm Sun 11 Nov 12

The People's Republic of Newp says...

Dai the Milk wrote:
The bubble of temporary international success has burst. It was a house built on sand. Sort the 'regions' out. Either form regions or give it entirely to the four clubs. At the moment this mongrel creation is attracting no support, no income, no top flight players and no success. Change it and we just might get sustainable, consistent top class rugby here. Then the knock on effect will be a national side that can compete against the best on a regular basis.
This is starting to freak me out now... I'm finding myself agreeing with you more than I don't.
[quote][p][bold]Dai the Milk[/bold] wrote: The bubble of temporary international success has burst. It was a house built on sand. Sort the 'regions' out. Either form regions or give it entirely to the four clubs. At the moment this mongrel creation is attracting no support, no income, no top flight players and no success. Change it and we just might get sustainable, consistent top class rugby here. Then the knock on effect will be a national side that can compete against the best on a regular basis.[/p][/quote]This is starting to freak me out now... I'm finding myself agreeing with you more than I don't. The People's Republic of Newp

7:06pm Sun 11 Nov 12

Dai the Milk says...

The People's Republic of Newp wrote:
Dai the Milk wrote:
The bubble of temporary international success has burst. It was a house built on sand. Sort the 'regions' out. Either form regions or give it entirely to the four clubs. At the moment this mongrel creation is attracting no support, no income, no top flight players and no success. Change it and we just might get sustainable, consistent top class rugby here. Then the knock on effect will be a national side that can compete against the best on a regular basis.
This is starting to freak me out now... I'm finding myself agreeing with you more than I don't.
You know you want to join me.
[quote][p][bold]The People's Republic of Newp[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dai the Milk[/bold] wrote: The bubble of temporary international success has burst. It was a house built on sand. Sort the 'regions' out. Either form regions or give it entirely to the four clubs. At the moment this mongrel creation is attracting no support, no income, no top flight players and no success. Change it and we just might get sustainable, consistent top class rugby here. Then the knock on effect will be a national side that can compete against the best on a regular basis.[/p][/quote]This is starting to freak me out now... I'm finding myself agreeing with you more than I don't.[/p][/quote]You know you want to join me. Dai the Milk

7:30pm Sun 11 Nov 12

Euwan Usami says...

Dai the Milk wrote:
The bubble of temporary international success has burst. It was a house built on sand. Sort the 'regions' out. Either form regions or give it entirely to the four clubs. At the moment this mongrel creation is attracting no support, no income, no top flight players and no success. Change it and we just might get sustainable, consistent top class rugby here. Then the knock on effect will be a national side that can compete against the best on a regular basis.
When the Gwent Dragons were formed they sold 17 season tickets before it was hastily changed to keep the Newport supporters onboard. Apart from the same couple of names I don't see any real support for an alternative today either. There is too much invested in the current system to abandon it. The very idea that there is enough cash to rip it all up, start again, build even more new stadiums, buy in super expensive players on the basis that there just might be some support for it is just nonsense isn't it? Think about it. Money is the problem here.
[quote][p][bold]Dai the Milk[/bold] wrote: The bubble of temporary international success has burst. It was a house built on sand. Sort the 'regions' out. Either form regions or give it entirely to the four clubs. At the moment this mongrel creation is attracting no support, no income, no top flight players and no success. Change it and we just might get sustainable, consistent top class rugby here. Then the knock on effect will be a national side that can compete against the best on a regular basis.[/p][/quote]When the Gwent Dragons were formed they sold 17 season tickets before it was hastily changed to keep the Newport supporters onboard. Apart from the same couple of names I don't see any real support for an alternative today either. There is too much invested in the current system to abandon it. The very idea that there is enough cash to rip it all up, start again, build even more new stadiums, buy in super expensive players on the basis that there just might be some support for it is just nonsense isn't it? Think about it. Money is the problem here. Euwan Usami

10:19pm Sun 11 Nov 12

The People's Republic of Newp says...

Euwan Usami wrote:
Dai the Milk wrote:
The bubble of temporary international success has burst. It was a house built on sand. Sort the 'regions' out. Either form regions or give it entirely to the four clubs. At the moment this mongrel creation is attracting no support, no income, no top flight players and no success. Change it and we just might get sustainable, consistent top class rugby here. Then the knock on effect will be a national side that can compete against the best on a regular basis.
When the Gwent Dragons were formed they sold 17 season tickets before it was hastily changed to keep the Newport supporters onboard. Apart from the same couple of names I don't see any real support for an alternative today either. There is too much invested in the current system to abandon it. The very idea that there is enough cash to rip it all up, start again, build even more new stadiums, buy in super expensive players on the basis that there just might be some support for it is just nonsense isn't it? Think about it. Money is the problem here.
Which is why the only way forward is to unapologetically restore the four clubs to which all players of note throughout the the history of Welsh rugby were drawn: Newport, Cardiff, Llanelli and Swansea. What disgusts me the most is we hear time and time again there is no money for the investment to make these outfits viable. Nonsense. All funding from the pro game down should support operational costs and player development only, but that's too controversial a move for the self-interested club committee men that run the WRU to contemplate. What pains me is a honest conversation about financial priorities would probably reveal sufficient funding is in place to sustain the Gang of 6 model which would simultaneously delivered the requisite reduction in top flight clubs, fomented the skill intensity so desperately needed AND retained the very best - localism, parochialism, identity and loyalty - about Welsh rugby. I refuse to believe its too late to bring this conversation and change about. We in Wales abhor elites, and that;s something I'm personally proud of - but its a ontological and existential position that has wrecked Welsh rugby.
[quote][p][bold]Euwan Usami[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dai the Milk[/bold] wrote: The bubble of temporary international success has burst. It was a house built on sand. Sort the 'regions' out. Either form regions or give it entirely to the four clubs. At the moment this mongrel creation is attracting no support, no income, no top flight players and no success. Change it and we just might get sustainable, consistent top class rugby here. Then the knock on effect will be a national side that can compete against the best on a regular basis.[/p][/quote]When the Gwent Dragons were formed they sold 17 season tickets before it was hastily changed to keep the Newport supporters onboard. Apart from the same couple of names I don't see any real support for an alternative today either. There is too much invested in the current system to abandon it. The very idea that there is enough cash to rip it all up, start again, build even more new stadiums, buy in super expensive players on the basis that there just might be some support for it is just nonsense isn't it? Think about it. Money is the problem here.[/p][/quote]Which is why the only way forward is to unapologetically restore the four clubs to which all players of note throughout the the history of Welsh rugby were drawn: Newport, Cardiff, Llanelli and Swansea. What disgusts me the most is we hear time and time again there is no money for the investment to make these outfits viable. Nonsense. All funding from the pro game down should support operational costs and player development only, but that's too controversial a move for the self-interested club committee men that run the WRU to contemplate. What pains me is a honest conversation about financial priorities would probably reveal sufficient funding is in place to sustain the Gang of 6 model which would simultaneously delivered the requisite reduction in top flight clubs, fomented the skill intensity so desperately needed AND retained the very best - localism, parochialism, identity and loyalty - about Welsh rugby. I refuse to believe its too late to bring this conversation and change about. We in Wales abhor elites, and that;s something I'm personally proud of - but its a ontological and existential position that has wrecked Welsh rugby. The People's Republic of Newp

10:24pm Sun 11 Nov 12

Keith Barnett says...

Good one - People's Republic. Stand for election to the WRU
Good one - People's Republic. Stand for election to the WRU Keith Barnett

12:03am Mon 12 Nov 12

CM1 says...

Your assertion that "all players of note throughout the history of welsh rugby" were drawn to only Llanelli, Swansea, Cardiff and Newport, is simply laughable. I simply don't have time to run through those players who have played for Wales and Lions from other clubs on here. If you would prefer those clubs with the greatest immediate population to represent welsh rugby, then that would at least be a genuine debate.
Your assertion that "all players of note throughout the history of welsh rugby" were drawn to only Llanelli, Swansea, Cardiff and Newport, is simply laughable. I simply don't have time to run through those players who have played for Wales and Lions from other clubs on here. If you would prefer those clubs with the greatest immediate population to represent welsh rugby, then that would at least be a genuine debate. CM1

1:18am Mon 12 Nov 12

Euwan Usami says...

The People's Republic of Newp wrote:
Euwan Usami wrote:
Dai the Milk wrote:
The bubble of temporary international success has burst. It was a house built on sand. Sort the 'regions' out. Either form regions or give it entirely to the four clubs. At the moment this mongrel creation is attracting no support, no income, no top flight players and no success. Change it and we just might get sustainable, consistent top class rugby here. Then the knock on effect will be a national side that can compete against the best on a regular basis.
When the Gwent Dragons were formed they sold 17 season tickets before it was hastily changed to keep the Newport supporters onboard. Apart from the same couple of names I don't see any real support for an alternative today either. There is too much invested in the current system to abandon it. The very idea that there is enough cash to rip it all up, start again, build even more new stadiums, buy in super expensive players on the basis that there just might be some support for it is just nonsense isn't it? Think about it. Money is the problem here.
Which is why the only way forward is to unapologetically restore the four clubs to which all players of note throughout the the history of Welsh rugby were drawn: Newport, Cardiff, Llanelli and Swansea. What disgusts me the most is we hear time and time again there is no money for the investment to make these outfits viable. Nonsense. All funding from the pro game down should support operational costs and player development only, but that's too controversial a move for the self-interested club committee men that run the WRU to contemplate. What pains me is a honest conversation about financial priorities would probably reveal sufficient funding is in place to sustain the Gang of 6 model which would simultaneously delivered the requisite reduction in top flight clubs, fomented the skill intensity so desperately needed AND retained the very best - localism, parochialism, identity and loyalty - about Welsh rugby. I refuse to believe its too late to bring this conversation and change about. We in Wales abhor elites, and that;s something I'm personally proud of - but its a ontological and existential position that has wrecked Welsh rugby.
Give you one tip; if you want to appear knowledgeable on a subject, try to avoid words like "Probably" When forming the argument. Also, using longer words than necessary can come off like trying to dress up cr@p in ribbons. It's still cr@p at the end if the day.
[quote][p][bold]The People's Republic of Newp[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Euwan Usami[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dai the Milk[/bold] wrote: The bubble of temporary international success has burst. It was a house built on sand. Sort the 'regions' out. Either form regions or give it entirely to the four clubs. At the moment this mongrel creation is attracting no support, no income, no top flight players and no success. Change it and we just might get sustainable, consistent top class rugby here. Then the knock on effect will be a national side that can compete against the best on a regular basis.[/p][/quote]When the Gwent Dragons were formed they sold 17 season tickets before it was hastily changed to keep the Newport supporters onboard. Apart from the same couple of names I don't see any real support for an alternative today either. There is too much invested in the current system to abandon it. The very idea that there is enough cash to rip it all up, start again, build even more new stadiums, buy in super expensive players on the basis that there just might be some support for it is just nonsense isn't it? Think about it. Money is the problem here.[/p][/quote]Which is why the only way forward is to unapologetically restore the four clubs to which all players of note throughout the the history of Welsh rugby were drawn: Newport, Cardiff, Llanelli and Swansea. What disgusts me the most is we hear time and time again there is no money for the investment to make these outfits viable. Nonsense. All funding from the pro game down should support operational costs and player development only, but that's too controversial a move for the self-interested club committee men that run the WRU to contemplate. What pains me is a honest conversation about financial priorities would probably reveal sufficient funding is in place to sustain the Gang of 6 model which would simultaneously delivered the requisite reduction in top flight clubs, fomented the skill intensity so desperately needed AND retained the very best - localism, parochialism, identity and loyalty - about Welsh rugby. I refuse to believe its too late to bring this conversation and change about. We in Wales abhor elites, and that;s something I'm personally proud of - but its a ontological and existential position that has wrecked Welsh rugby.[/p][/quote]Give you one tip; if you want to appear knowledgeable on a subject, try to avoid words like "Probably" When forming the argument. Also, using longer words than necessary can come off like trying to dress up cr@p in ribbons. It's still cr@p at the end if the day. Euwan Usami

1:19am Mon 12 Nov 12

Euwan Usami says...

Give you one tip; if you want to appear knowledgeable on a subject, try to avoid words like "Probably" When forming the argument. Also, using longer words than necessary can come off like trying to dress up cr@p in ribbons. It's still cr@p at the end if the day.
Give you one tip; if you want to appear knowledgeable on a subject, try to avoid words like "Probably" When forming the argument. Also, using longer words than necessary can come off like trying to dress up cr@p in ribbons. It's still cr@p at the end if the day. Euwan Usami

5:09pm Mon 12 Nov 12

The People's Republic of Newp says...

Euwan Usami wrote:
Give you one tip; if you want to appear knowledgeable on a subject, try to avoid words like "Probably" When forming the argument. Also, using longer words than necessary can come off like trying to dress up cr@p in ribbons. It's still cr@p at the end if the day.
Tad defensive, n'est pas? I'll take that as evidence of the relative strength of my analysis. Unlike you I'm not so arrogant as to presume I have all the answers: pays to be more guarded and sceptical as I, for one, don't pretend to have all the answers. As for my choice of language, I make no apologies whatsover: the two terms you presumably refer to are wholly appropriate. An education - providing it is not used to belittle - is nothing to be ashamed of.
[quote][p][bold]Euwan Usami[/bold] wrote: Give you one tip; if you want to appear knowledgeable on a subject, try to avoid words like "Probably" When forming the argument. Also, using longer words than necessary can come off like trying to dress up cr@p in ribbons. It's still cr@p at the end if the day.[/p][/quote]Tad defensive, n'est pas? I'll take that as evidence of the relative strength of my analysis. Unlike you I'm not so arrogant as to presume I have all the answers: pays to be more guarded and sceptical as I, for one, don't pretend to have all the answers. As for my choice of language, I make no apologies whatsover: the two terms you presumably refer to are wholly appropriate. An education - providing it is not used to belittle - is nothing to be ashamed of. The People's Republic of Newp

5:12pm Mon 12 Nov 12

The People's Republic of Newp says...

CM1 wrote:
Your assertion that "all players of note throughout the history of welsh rugby" were drawn to only Llanelli, Swansea, Cardiff and Newport, is simply laughable. I simply don't have time to run through those players who have played for Wales and Lions from other clubs on here. If you would prefer those clubs with the greatest immediate population to represent welsh rugby, then that would at least be a genuine debate.
Borne out by history I'm afraid, my friend. Admittedly, there have been aberrations, and many teams have fleetingly reached the summit, Neath, Pooler and even Treorchy among them, but in terms of sustained accomplishment since the formation of the Union? No contest.
[quote][p][bold]CM1[/bold] wrote: Your assertion that "all players of note throughout the history of welsh rugby" were drawn to only Llanelli, Swansea, Cardiff and Newport, is simply laughable. I simply don't have time to run through those players who have played for Wales and Lions from other clubs on here. If you would prefer those clubs with the greatest immediate population to represent welsh rugby, then that would at least be a genuine debate.[/p][/quote]Borne out by history I'm afraid, my friend. Admittedly, there have been aberrations, and many teams have fleetingly reached the summit, Neath, Pooler and even Treorchy among them, but in terms of sustained accomplishment since the formation of the Union? No contest. The People's Republic of Newp

7:13pm Mon 12 Nov 12

Euwan Usami says...

The People's Republic of Newp wrote:
Euwan Usami wrote:
Give you one tip; if you want to appear knowledgeable on a subject, try to avoid words like "Probably" When forming the argument. Also, using longer words than necessary can come off like trying to dress up cr@p in ribbons. It's still cr@p at the end if the day.
Tad defensive, n'est pas? I'll take that as evidence of the relative strength of my analysis. Unlike you I'm not so arrogant as to presume I have all the answers: pays to be more guarded and sceptical as I, for one, don't pretend to have all the answers. As for my choice of language, I make no apologies whatsover: the two terms you presumably refer to are wholly appropriate. An education - providing it is not used to belittle - is nothing to be ashamed of.
There's a difference between educated and pompous. l, like most, have the ability make a point succinctly. This is obviously beyond you. Your ignorance is irritating but it's made worse by your pomposity. Fear not though Mon ami, I will continue to remind you how ridiculous you are being in order to save your blushes. I am all heart I know. ;)
[quote][p][bold]The People's Republic of Newp[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Euwan Usami[/bold] wrote: Give you one tip; if you want to appear knowledgeable on a subject, try to avoid words like "Probably" When forming the argument. Also, using longer words than necessary can come off like trying to dress up cr@p in ribbons. It's still cr@p at the end if the day.[/p][/quote]Tad defensive, n'est pas? I'll take that as evidence of the relative strength of my analysis. Unlike you I'm not so arrogant as to presume I have all the answers: pays to be more guarded and sceptical as I, for one, don't pretend to have all the answers. As for my choice of language, I make no apologies whatsover: the two terms you presumably refer to are wholly appropriate. An education - providing it is not used to belittle - is nothing to be ashamed of.[/p][/quote]There's a difference between educated and pompous. l, like most, have the ability make a point succinctly. This is obviously beyond you. Your ignorance is irritating but it's made worse by your pomposity. Fear not though Mon ami, I will continue to remind you how ridiculous you are being in order to save your blushes. I am all heart I know. ;) Euwan Usami

7:48pm Mon 12 Nov 12

The People's Republic of Newp says...

Euwan Usami wrote:
The People's Republic of Newp wrote:
Euwan Usami wrote:
Give you one tip; if you want to appear knowledgeable on a subject, try to avoid words like "Probably" When forming the argument. Also, using longer words than necessary can come off like trying to dress up cr@p in ribbons. It's still cr@p at the end if the day.
Tad defensive, n'est pas? I'll take that as evidence of the relative strength of my analysis. Unlike you I'm not so arrogant as to presume I have all the answers: pays to be more guarded and sceptical as I, for one, don't pretend to have all the answers. As for my choice of language, I make no apologies whatsover: the two terms you presumably refer to are wholly appropriate. An education - providing it is not used to belittle - is nothing to be ashamed of.
There's a difference between educated and pompous. l, like most, have the ability make a point succinctly. This is obviously beyond you. Your ignorance is irritating but it's made worse by your pomposity. Fear not though Mon ami, I will continue to remind you how ridiculous you are being in order to save your blushes. I am all heart I know. ;)
How very kind.

I'd like to say your resorting to insults masks the frailty of your arguments, but...
[quote][p][bold]Euwan Usami[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The People's Republic of Newp[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Euwan Usami[/bold] wrote: Give you one tip; if you want to appear knowledgeable on a subject, try to avoid words like "Probably" When forming the argument. Also, using longer words than necessary can come off like trying to dress up cr@p in ribbons. It's still cr@p at the end if the day.[/p][/quote]Tad defensive, n'est pas? I'll take that as evidence of the relative strength of my analysis. Unlike you I'm not so arrogant as to presume I have all the answers: pays to be more guarded and sceptical as I, for one, don't pretend to have all the answers. As for my choice of language, I make no apologies whatsover: the two terms you presumably refer to are wholly appropriate. An education - providing it is not used to belittle - is nothing to be ashamed of.[/p][/quote]There's a difference between educated and pompous. l, like most, have the ability make a point succinctly. This is obviously beyond you. Your ignorance is irritating but it's made worse by your pomposity. Fear not though Mon ami, I will continue to remind you how ridiculous you are being in order to save your blushes. I am all heart I know. ;)[/p][/quote]How very kind. I'd like to say your resorting to insults masks the frailty of your arguments, but... The People's Republic of Newp

10:00pm Mon 12 Nov 12

CM1 says...

Unfortunately for Newport, the club has rarely been at the pinnacle of welsh rugby. A top four, five or six team for sustained periods but rarely at the very top; not in my lifetime anyway. I have been watching rugby since the early 80s, having been born the decade before and can hardly recall Newport winning anything of note. You must be getting on, as they say; no offence! The strange fact about those aberations, as you call them, is that they lasted for decades, which does not really fit the definition. Someone else seems to have noted your overt sense of superiority!
Unfortunately for Newport, the club has rarely been at the pinnacle of welsh rugby. A top four, five or six team for sustained periods but rarely at the very top; not in my lifetime anyway. I have been watching rugby since the early 80s, having been born the decade before and can hardly recall Newport winning anything of note. You must be getting on, as they say; no offence! The strange fact about those aberations, as you call them, is that they lasted for decades, which does not really fit the definition. Someone else seems to have noted your overt sense of superiority! CM1

9:14pm Tue 13 Nov 12

The People's Republic of Newp says...

With the exception of the teams I mentioned, can you honestly point to a single outfit that sat at the top of the tree for decades? You're absolutely right about the mid '80s on, Newport were for the most part an afterthought, but what sticks in my craw was how everything Brown secured in the run-up to 2003 was sacrificed. Recall Moffett coming up with the magic 8,000 break-even attendance figure? We were getting that and often surpassing it: NGD, Ebbw, Pooler and every other Gwent club since '95 have never come close.

For the record, I could have lived with proper regional rugby. But you can't consider what's best for 'Gwent' in isolation, without taking account of the status afforded Cardiff and Llanelli...

As for my sense of superiority, its not for me to take task with what you find, and I'll have to accept what you say. Having said that, there's a number on here - myself included - who are pretty emphatic in expressing a point. But I do my best to resist the urge to personalise things.
With the exception of the teams I mentioned, can you honestly point to a single outfit that sat at the top of the tree for decades? You're absolutely right about the mid '80s on, Newport were for the most part an afterthought, but what sticks in my craw was how everything Brown secured in the run-up to 2003 was sacrificed. Recall Moffett coming up with the magic 8,000 break-even attendance figure? We were getting that and often surpassing it: NGD, Ebbw, Pooler and every other Gwent club since '95 have never come close. For the record, I could have lived with proper regional rugby. But you can't consider what's best for 'Gwent' in isolation, without taking account of the status afforded Cardiff and Llanelli... As for my sense of superiority, its not for me to take task with what you find, and I'll have to accept what you say. Having said that, there's a number on here - myself included - who are pretty emphatic in expressing a point. But I do my best to resist the urge to personalise things. The People's Republic of Newp

10:07pm Tue 13 Nov 12

Keith Barnett says...

I agree Peoples Republic
I agree Peoples Republic Keith Barnett

10:25pm Tue 13 Nov 12

CM1 says...

I would specifically add Bridgend and Pontypridd to your list but international players came from a wide range of sides in those days, including the likes of Souht Wales Police.

Actually agree with the majority of your points, especially regarding Cardiff and Llanelli, exept that I have been in crowds approaching that number at Pontypool when we went on cup runs in the 90s, and bear in mind that was when the club was in the second tier. Unfortunately, those supporters are long gone from he game and most likely never to return, especially now that the longer the club languishes in the dead leagues. However, these supporters have been lost to the sport, not just Pontypool.

On the subject of superiority, you sometimes have a tedency to come across as if there has only ever been one club in Gwent and that other supporters don't matter! I am just lucky to have been in crowds of 10k+ supporting my team in local derby matches that used to matter. Never again unfortunately.
I would specifically add Bridgend and Pontypridd to your list but international players came from a wide range of sides in those days, including the likes of Souht Wales Police. Actually agree with the majority of your points, especially regarding Cardiff and Llanelli, exept that I have been in crowds approaching that number at Pontypool when we went on cup runs in the 90s, and bear in mind that was when the club was in the second tier. Unfortunately, those supporters are long gone from he game and most likely never to return, especially now that the longer the club languishes in the dead leagues. However, these supporters have been lost to the sport, not just Pontypool. On the subject of superiority, you sometimes have a tedency to come across as if there has only ever been one club in Gwent and that other supporters don't matter! I am just lucky to have been in crowds of 10k+ supporting my team in local derby matches that used to matter. Never again unfortunately. CM1

6:27pm Wed 14 Nov 12

The People's Republic of Newp says...

CM1 wrote:
I would specifically add Bridgend and Pontypridd to your list but international players came from a wide range of sides in those days, including the likes of Souht Wales Police.

Actually agree with the majority of your points, especially regarding Cardiff and Llanelli, exept that I have been in crowds approaching that number at Pontypool when we went on cup runs in the 90s, and bear in mind that was when the club was in the second tier. Unfortunately, those supporters are long gone from he game and most likely never to return, especially now that the longer the club languishes in the dead leagues. However, these supporters have been lost to the sport, not just Pontypool.

On the subject of superiority, you sometimes have a tedency to come across as if there has only ever been one club in Gwent and that other supporters don't matter! I am just lucky to have been in crowds of 10k+ supporting my team in local derby matches that used to matter. Never again unfortunately.
In fairness, I can exactly where you're coming from. 'We' in Newp - well, most of whom to who I speak, current and former season ticket holders alike - take umbrudge at the preferential treatment of Cardiff and Llanelli, so I can fully understand why supporters of Pooler and the like see our 'griping' as just that, especially as 'we' have a team with Newport in the title playing in our home. Its just I see the whole thing for the hotch-potch it is, neither meat nor fish, an embarrassing compromise that suits no-one. I've never been a fan of regional rugby - we should have built on and reinforced traditional loyalties rather than constructing artificial confections - but like I've said, I could have adjusted had it been equally applied and represented right the way across the piece, a proper wholesale departure from clubs. What we've instead got is one unholy mess.

Sadly I also think you're right about the big crowds. Too much damage done. Moffett, Pickering, Lewis, the lot of them, should be ashamed.
[quote][p][bold]CM1[/bold] wrote: I would specifically add Bridgend and Pontypridd to your list but international players came from a wide range of sides in those days, including the likes of Souht Wales Police. Actually agree with the majority of your points, especially regarding Cardiff and Llanelli, exept that I have been in crowds approaching that number at Pontypool when we went on cup runs in the 90s, and bear in mind that was when the club was in the second tier. Unfortunately, those supporters are long gone from he game and most likely never to return, especially now that the longer the club languishes in the dead leagues. However, these supporters have been lost to the sport, not just Pontypool. On the subject of superiority, you sometimes have a tedency to come across as if there has only ever been one club in Gwent and that other supporters don't matter! I am just lucky to have been in crowds of 10k+ supporting my team in local derby matches that used to matter. Never again unfortunately.[/p][/quote]In fairness, I can exactly where you're coming from. 'We' in Newp - well, most of whom to who I speak, current and former season ticket holders alike - take umbrudge at the preferential treatment of Cardiff and Llanelli, so I can fully understand why supporters of Pooler and the like see our 'griping' as just that, especially as 'we' have a team with Newport in the title playing in our home. Its just I see the whole thing for the hotch-potch it is, neither meat nor fish, an embarrassing compromise that suits no-one. I've never been a fan of regional rugby - we should have built on and reinforced traditional loyalties rather than constructing artificial confections - but like I've said, I could have adjusted had it been equally applied and represented right the way across the piece, a proper wholesale departure from clubs. What we've instead got is one unholy mess. Sadly I also think you're right about the big crowds. Too much damage done. Moffett, Pickering, Lewis, the lot of them, should be ashamed. The People's Republic of Newp

10:50pm Wed 14 Nov 12

CM1 says...

Yep, cannot disagree with any of that! Llanelli and Cardiff have a great deal to answer for!! It used to make me very angry but, like many others, I have moved on. Watched recording of Atlanta v Dallas when the Wales game was on last week; superior skills and more exciting sport!
Yep, cannot disagree with any of that! Llanelli and Cardiff have a great deal to answer for!! It used to make me very angry but, like many others, I have moved on. Watched recording of Atlanta v Dallas when the Wales game was on last week; superior skills and more exciting sport! CM1

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