Ban zero hours

First published in Letters

I WAS disappointed that Labour AMs, including the member for Islwyn, failed to support an amendment by Plaid Cymru AM Jocelyn Davies to ban zero hour contracts in the social care sector.

Labour politicians, both UK and Wales-wide, have condemned the use of these contracts, but when it comes to stopping their use in this important sector they join with the Tories to vote down an amendment in the National Assembly .

One in five social care workers are on zero hour contracts.

This translates to over 300,000 workers across the UK. I wait for the MP for Islwyn to condemn his party’s politicians’ attitude on this important issue.

Councillor Lyn Ackerman, Plaid Cymru UK Prospective General Election Candidate for Islwyn

Comments (15)

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12:55pm Fri 28 Mar 14

Mervyn James says...

Labour are currently the poor man's tories with their continual backing of discriminatory demands from London in case middle England dumps them. Many don't understand you can REFUSE to take any job with zero hours there are strict rules governing this. Mostly they pertain to you having family in need or if the zero hours falls below a certain limit which is 30 odd hours or, if they want entirely unsociable hours for you to work, or you have a disability yourself, then zero hours can be refused and they cannot force you take it up or change whatever allowances yu might be getting,so no ZERO hours isn't forced labour and you do not have to accept threats from the job centres or DWP either. In fact can sue them..
Labour are currently the poor man's tories with their continual backing of discriminatory demands from London in case middle England dumps them. Many don't understand you can REFUSE to take any job with zero hours there are strict rules governing this. Mostly they pertain to you having family in need or if the zero hours falls below a certain limit which is 30 odd hours or, if they want entirely unsociable hours for you to work, or you have a disability yourself, then zero hours can be refused and they cannot force you take it up or change whatever allowances yu might be getting,so no ZERO hours isn't forced labour and you do not have to accept threats from the job centres or DWP either. In fact can sue them.. Mervyn James
  • Score: -1

1:04pm Fri 28 Mar 14

Llanmartinangel says...

Mervyn James wrote:
Labour are currently the poor man's tories with their continual backing of discriminatory demands from London in case middle England dumps them. Many don't understand you can REFUSE to take any job with zero hours there are strict rules governing this. Mostly they pertain to you having family in need or if the zero hours falls below a certain limit which is 30 odd hours or, if they want entirely unsociable hours for you to work, or you have a disability yourself, then zero hours can be refused and they cannot force you take it up or change whatever allowances yu might be getting,so no ZERO hours isn't forced labour and you do not have to accept threats from the job centres or DWP either. In fact can sue them..
So what's the problem then?
[quote][p][bold]Mervyn James[/bold] wrote: Labour are currently the poor man's tories with their continual backing of discriminatory demands from London in case middle England dumps them. Many don't understand you can REFUSE to take any job with zero hours there are strict rules governing this. Mostly they pertain to you having family in need or if the zero hours falls below a certain limit which is 30 odd hours or, if they want entirely unsociable hours for you to work, or you have a disability yourself, then zero hours can be refused and they cannot force you take it up or change whatever allowances yu might be getting,so no ZERO hours isn't forced labour and you do not have to accept threats from the job centres or DWP either. In fact can sue them..[/p][/quote]So what's the problem then? Llanmartinangel
  • Score: 2

1:18pm Fri 28 Mar 14

Katie Re-Registered says...

Zero hours are modern forms of slavery and slavery has been illegal in the British Isles since 1833. So why aren't there teams of police busting such businesses and arresting their owners - a la Elliott Ness and crew in The Untouchables? Methinks Al Capone would be kicking himself that he was born in 1920s Chicago instead of 2010s Britain as I get the feeling that him, and his activities, would flourish without impediment in today's society.
Zero hours are modern forms of slavery and slavery has been illegal in the British Isles since 1833. So why aren't there teams of police busting such businesses and arresting their owners - a la Elliott Ness and crew in The Untouchables? Methinks Al Capone would be kicking himself that he was born in 1920s Chicago instead of 2010s Britain as I get the feeling that him, and his activities, would flourish without impediment in today's society. Katie Re-Registered
  • Score: 0

1:31pm Fri 28 Mar 14

indy2012 says...

Llanmartinangel wrote:
Mervyn James wrote:
Labour are currently the poor man's tories with their continual backing of discriminatory demands from London in case middle England dumps them. Many don't understand you can REFUSE to take any job with zero hours there are strict rules governing this. Mostly they pertain to you having family in need or if the zero hours falls below a certain limit which is 30 odd hours or, if they want entirely unsociable hours for you to work, or you have a disability yourself, then zero hours can be refused and they cannot force you take it up or change whatever allowances yu might be getting,so no ZERO hours isn't forced labour and you do not have to accept threats from the job centres or DWP either. In fact can sue them..
So what's the problem then?
The problem is these rules are exploited, care workers given thirty plus hours to start with and then hours cut as the demand falls, you then have to go through the process of claiming through the system which will take an age and all the time the hardship is met by you.
Zero hours should be banned,full stop,irrespective of what job you do.
[quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Mervyn James[/bold] wrote: Labour are currently the poor man's tories with their continual backing of discriminatory demands from London in case middle England dumps them. Many don't understand you can REFUSE to take any job with zero hours there are strict rules governing this. Mostly they pertain to you having family in need or if the zero hours falls below a certain limit which is 30 odd hours or, if they want entirely unsociable hours for you to work, or you have a disability yourself, then zero hours can be refused and they cannot force you take it up or change whatever allowances yu might be getting,so no ZERO hours isn't forced labour and you do not have to accept threats from the job centres or DWP either. In fact can sue them..[/p][/quote]So what's the problem then?[/p][/quote]The problem is these rules are exploited, care workers given thirty plus hours to start with and then hours cut as the demand falls, you then have to go through the process of claiming through the system which will take an age and all the time the hardship is met by you. Zero hours should be banned,full stop,irrespective of what job you do. indy2012
  • Score: 10

10:18pm Fri 28 Mar 14

pwlldu says...

Labour in Wales contiune to be at odds with Labour in England. Over zero hours, education, health and dealing with poverty.
Labour in Wales contiune to be at odds with Labour in England. Over zero hours, education, health and dealing with poverty. pwlldu
  • Score: 0

4:41pm Sat 29 Mar 14

Port0214 says...

pwlldu wrote:
Labour in Wales contiune to be at odds with Labour in England. Over zero hours, education, health and dealing with poverty.
The problem we have here in Wales is you could put a red rosette on a chimp and it would get voted in.

They have no incentive to perform.
[quote][p][bold]pwlldu[/bold] wrote: Labour in Wales contiune to be at odds with Labour in England. Over zero hours, education, health and dealing with poverty.[/p][/quote]The problem we have here in Wales is you could put a red rosette on a chimp and it would get voted in. They have no incentive to perform. Port0214
  • Score: 7

11:00am Sun 30 Mar 14

Mervyn James says...

Port0214 wrote:
pwlldu wrote:
Labour in Wales contiune to be at odds with Labour in England. Over zero hours, education, health and dealing with poverty.
The problem we have here in Wales is you could put a red rosette on a chimp and it would get voted in.

They have no incentive to perform.
Got to be better than the tory alternatives ! If they get in you will really find out what suffering is (Not that they are doing too bad a job now). Starve the assembly of funds sit back and watch the assembly get the blame, it is Tory hatred at Labour majorities here. They don't give a fig for us in Wales.
[quote][p][bold]Port0214[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pwlldu[/bold] wrote: Labour in Wales contiune to be at odds with Labour in England. Over zero hours, education, health and dealing with poverty.[/p][/quote]The problem we have here in Wales is you could put a red rosette on a chimp and it would get voted in. They have no incentive to perform.[/p][/quote]Got to be better than the tory alternatives ! If they get in you will really find out what suffering is (Not that they are doing too bad a job now). Starve the assembly of funds sit back and watch the assembly get the blame, it is Tory hatred at Labour majorities here. They don't give a fig for us in Wales. Mervyn James
  • Score: -2

11:22am Sun 30 Mar 14

scraptheWAG says...

Port0214 wrote:
pwlldu wrote:
Labour in Wales contiune to be at odds with Labour in England. Over zero hours, education, health and dealing with poverty.
The problem we have here in Wales is you could put a red rosette on a chimp and it would get voted in.

They have no incentive to perform.
so true
[quote][p][bold]Port0214[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pwlldu[/bold] wrote: Labour in Wales contiune to be at odds with Labour in England. Over zero hours, education, health and dealing with poverty.[/p][/quote]The problem we have here in Wales is you could put a red rosette on a chimp and it would get voted in. They have no incentive to perform.[/p][/quote]so true scraptheWAG
  • Score: 1

11:50am Sun 30 Mar 14

Stevenboy says...

Mervyn James wrote:
Port0214 wrote:
pwlldu wrote:
Labour in Wales contiune to be at odds with Labour in England. Over zero hours, education, health and dealing with poverty.
The problem we have here in Wales is you could put a red rosette on a chimp and it would get voted in.

They have no incentive to perform.
Got to be better than the tory alternatives ! If they get in you will really find out what suffering is (Not that they are doing too bad a job now). Starve the assembly of funds sit back and watch the assembly get the blame, it is Tory hatred at Labour majorities here. They don't give a fig for us in Wales.
Can you ever quote the facts? Wales gets more taxpayer dollars than anywhere else, so hardly starvation funding, it just spends them badly. And that is definitely Labour's fault. Well, them and the Plaid looneys.
[quote][p][bold]Mervyn James[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Port0214[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pwlldu[/bold] wrote: Labour in Wales contiune to be at odds with Labour in England. Over zero hours, education, health and dealing with poverty.[/p][/quote]The problem we have here in Wales is you could put a red rosette on a chimp and it would get voted in. They have no incentive to perform.[/p][/quote]Got to be better than the tory alternatives ! If they get in you will really find out what suffering is (Not that they are doing too bad a job now). Starve the assembly of funds sit back and watch the assembly get the blame, it is Tory hatred at Labour majorities here. They don't give a fig for us in Wales.[/p][/quote]Can you ever quote the facts? Wales gets more taxpayer dollars than anywhere else, so hardly starvation funding, it just spends them badly. And that is definitely Labour's fault. Well, them and the Plaid looneys. Stevenboy
  • Score: -1

7:52pm Sun 30 Mar 14

pwlldu says...

Stevenboy says... so is Welsh Labour saying the Barnett Formula, while Scottish Labour are happy with the deal from London.
Stevenboy says... so is Welsh Labour saying the Barnett Formula, while Scottish Labour are happy with the deal from London. pwlldu
  • Score: 0

10:29am Mon 31 Mar 14

Mervyn James says...

Stevenboy wrote:
Mervyn James wrote:
Port0214 wrote:
pwlldu wrote:
Labour in Wales contiune to be at odds with Labour in England. Over zero hours, education, health and dealing with poverty.
The problem we have here in Wales is you could put a red rosette on a chimp and it would get voted in.

They have no incentive to perform.
Got to be better than the tory alternatives ! If they get in you will really find out what suffering is (Not that they are doing too bad a job now). Starve the assembly of funds sit back and watch the assembly get the blame, it is Tory hatred at Labour majorities here. They don't give a fig for us in Wales.
Can you ever quote the facts? Wales gets more taxpayer dollars than anywhere else, so hardly starvation funding, it just spends them badly. And that is definitely Labour's fault. Well, them and the Plaid looneys.
they are paying us in dollars now lol It's insufficient funding for the needs of welsh people. Trying to blame the Assembly for a 60% shortage of funds, for not spending twice as much isn't sound economics either. If you embrace the 'populist' suggestions of selling off the airport to Billy Smarts, or dumping the welsh language in the sea, the money would still not fund the 40% shortages of investment in the welsh NHS, and being cut year on year, let alone anything else.

It's easy to allay blame at others but we never see anyone here with a sensible suggestion of getting the money we need, or, spending it where they say it needs to go. There is no answer in removing the WAG either,since London has abandoned Wales when they were kicked out of the welsh office. We have a major shortfall in investment and funding, the money is just not there. Wales has very specific issues that mean no taxes are coming in from Wales to cover any services we need. Unless you never read the papers, or never have any bills, our income is lower and we are paying more for less too. expect more cuts and LESS investment.
[quote][p][bold]Stevenboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Mervyn James[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Port0214[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pwlldu[/bold] wrote: Labour in Wales contiune to be at odds with Labour in England. Over zero hours, education, health and dealing with poverty.[/p][/quote]The problem we have here in Wales is you could put a red rosette on a chimp and it would get voted in. They have no incentive to perform.[/p][/quote]Got to be better than the tory alternatives ! If they get in you will really find out what suffering is (Not that they are doing too bad a job now). Starve the assembly of funds sit back and watch the assembly get the blame, it is Tory hatred at Labour majorities here. They don't give a fig for us in Wales.[/p][/quote]Can you ever quote the facts? Wales gets more taxpayer dollars than anywhere else, so hardly starvation funding, it just spends them badly. And that is definitely Labour's fault. Well, them and the Plaid looneys.[/p][/quote]they are paying us in dollars now lol It's insufficient funding for the needs of welsh people. Trying to blame the Assembly for a 60% shortage of funds, for not spending twice as much isn't sound economics either. If you embrace the 'populist' suggestions of selling off the airport to Billy Smarts, or dumping the welsh language in the sea, the money would still not fund the 40% shortages of investment in the welsh NHS, and being cut year on year, let alone anything else. It's easy to allay blame at others but we never see anyone here with a sensible suggestion of getting the money we need, or, spending it where they say it needs to go. There is no answer in removing the WAG either,since London has abandoned Wales when they were kicked out of the welsh office. We have a major shortfall in investment and funding, the money is just not there. Wales has very specific issues that mean no taxes are coming in from Wales to cover any services we need. Unless you never read the papers, or never have any bills, our income is lower and we are paying more for less too. expect more cuts and LESS investment. Mervyn James
  • Score: -1

11:01am Mon 31 Mar 14

Llanmartinangel says...

Mervyn James wrote:
Stevenboy wrote:
Mervyn James wrote:
Port0214 wrote:
pwlldu wrote:
Labour in Wales contiune to be at odds with Labour in England. Over zero hours, education, health and dealing with poverty.
The problem we have here in Wales is you could put a red rosette on a chimp and it would get voted in.

They have no incentive to perform.
Got to be better than the tory alternatives ! If they get in you will really find out what suffering is (Not that they are doing too bad a job now). Starve the assembly of funds sit back and watch the assembly get the blame, it is Tory hatred at Labour majorities here. They don't give a fig for us in Wales.
Can you ever quote the facts? Wales gets more taxpayer dollars than anywhere else, so hardly starvation funding, it just spends them badly. And that is definitely Labour's fault. Well, them and the Plaid looneys.
they are paying us in dollars now lol It's insufficient funding for the needs of welsh people. Trying to blame the Assembly for a 60% shortage of funds, for not spending twice as much isn't sound economics either. If you embrace the 'populist' suggestions of selling off the airport to Billy Smarts, or dumping the welsh language in the sea, the money would still not fund the 40% shortages of investment in the welsh NHS, and being cut year on year, let alone anything else.

It's easy to allay blame at others but we never see anyone here with a sensible suggestion of getting the money we need, or, spending it where they say it needs to go. There is no answer in removing the WAG either,since London has abandoned Wales when they were kicked out of the welsh office. We have a major shortfall in investment and funding, the money is just not there. Wales has very specific issues that mean no taxes are coming in from Wales to cover any services we need. Unless you never read the papers, or never have any bills, our income is lower and we are paying more for less too. expect more cuts and LESS investment.
Yet you are an exponent of independence. You can't have it both ways. You seem to be suggesting that the £10Billion Wales gets more than it earns now is insufficient. If it were a republic then that would be an even bigger shortfall would it not? So your answer to all this is ask other UK (mainly English) taxpayers to send us more, and then watch helplessly as be burn the money THEY earn on the very vanity projects you highlight (Airports, language etc). Sorry but that's a bit like asking your neighbour for money to feed your kids and then spending it on a foreign holiday.
[quote][p][bold]Mervyn James[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stevenboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Mervyn James[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Port0214[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pwlldu[/bold] wrote: Labour in Wales contiune to be at odds with Labour in England. Over zero hours, education, health and dealing with poverty.[/p][/quote]The problem we have here in Wales is you could put a red rosette on a chimp and it would get voted in. They have no incentive to perform.[/p][/quote]Got to be better than the tory alternatives ! If they get in you will really find out what suffering is (Not that they are doing too bad a job now). Starve the assembly of funds sit back and watch the assembly get the blame, it is Tory hatred at Labour majorities here. They don't give a fig for us in Wales.[/p][/quote]Can you ever quote the facts? Wales gets more taxpayer dollars than anywhere else, so hardly starvation funding, it just spends them badly. And that is definitely Labour's fault. Well, them and the Plaid looneys.[/p][/quote]they are paying us in dollars now lol It's insufficient funding for the needs of welsh people. Trying to blame the Assembly for a 60% shortage of funds, for not spending twice as much isn't sound economics either. If you embrace the 'populist' suggestions of selling off the airport to Billy Smarts, or dumping the welsh language in the sea, the money would still not fund the 40% shortages of investment in the welsh NHS, and being cut year on year, let alone anything else. It's easy to allay blame at others but we never see anyone here with a sensible suggestion of getting the money we need, or, spending it where they say it needs to go. There is no answer in removing the WAG either,since London has abandoned Wales when they were kicked out of the welsh office. We have a major shortfall in investment and funding, the money is just not there. Wales has very specific issues that mean no taxes are coming in from Wales to cover any services we need. Unless you never read the papers, or never have any bills, our income is lower and we are paying more for less too. expect more cuts and LESS investment.[/p][/quote]Yet you are an exponent of independence. You can't have it both ways. You seem to be suggesting that the £10Billion Wales gets more than it earns now is insufficient. If it were a republic then that would be an even bigger shortfall would it not? So your answer to all this is ask other UK (mainly English) taxpayers to send us more, and then watch helplessly as be burn the money THEY earn on the very vanity projects you highlight (Airports, language etc). Sorry but that's a bit like asking your neighbour for money to feed your kids and then spending it on a foreign holiday. Llanmartinangel
  • Score: 2

8:35am Wed 2 Apr 14

Mervyn James says...

I've booked my 5 for this year...... nope £10B won't cover what we need. What country DOESN'T have an airport ? We live in a global society, you'd have business commuting by camel ? The NHS costs us £6b alone. It doesn't require much accountancy to understand there is very little left over for much else.

A run down from the 2014 budget for wales.

Health and Social Services 5,377,169 918,067
Local Government 3,569,729 300
Communities and Tackling Poverty 212,696 0
Economy, Science and Transport 962,386 42,393
Education and Skills 1,945,229 157,486
Natural Resources and Food 402,879 353,795
Housing and Regeneration 433,299 71,000
Culture and Sport 133,892 5,338
Central Services and Administration 347,875 361,644


How would you spend differently ?
I've booked my 5 for this year...... nope £10B won't cover what we need. What country DOESN'T have an airport ? We live in a global society, you'd have business commuting by camel ? The NHS costs us £6b alone. It doesn't require much accountancy to understand there is very little left over for much else. A run down from the 2014 budget for wales. Health and Social Services 5,377,169 918,067 Local Government 3,569,729 300 Communities and Tackling Poverty 212,696 0 Economy, Science and Transport 962,386 42,393 Education and Skills 1,945,229 157,486 Natural Resources and Food 402,879 353,795 Housing and Regeneration 433,299 71,000 Culture and Sport 133,892 5,338 Central Services and Administration 347,875 361,644 How would you spend differently ? Mervyn James
  • Score: -2

10:32am Wed 2 Apr 14

Llanmartinangel says...

Mervyn James wrote:
I've booked my 5 for this year...... nope £10B won't cover what we need. What country DOESN'T have an airport ? We live in a global society, you'd have business commuting by camel ? The NHS costs us £6b alone. It doesn't require much accountancy to understand there is very little left over for much else.

A run down from the 2014 budget for wales.

Health and Social Services 5,377,169 918,067
Local Government 3,569,729 300
Communities and Tackling Poverty 212,696 0
Economy, Science and Transport 962,386 42,393
Education and Skills 1,945,229 157,486
Natural Resources and Food 402,879 353,795
Housing and Regeneration 433,299 71,000
Culture and Sport 133,892 5,338
Central Services and Administration 347,875 361,644


How would you spend differently ?
Well for a start add up local government and administration and you'll see where the problem is. And it isn't a country. As for the airport it serves the South. People in mid Wales and the North still fly from England. The vast majority of flights from Cardiff aren't business. For crying out loud man this is a third world backwater not Frankfurt or New York.
[quote][p][bold]Mervyn James[/bold] wrote: I've booked my 5 for this year...... nope £10B won't cover what we need. What country DOESN'T have an airport ? We live in a global society, you'd have business commuting by camel ? The NHS costs us £6b alone. It doesn't require much accountancy to understand there is very little left over for much else. A run down from the 2014 budget for wales. Health and Social Services 5,377,169 918,067 Local Government 3,569,729 300 Communities and Tackling Poverty 212,696 0 Economy, Science and Transport 962,386 42,393 Education and Skills 1,945,229 157,486 Natural Resources and Food 402,879 353,795 Housing and Regeneration 433,299 71,000 Culture and Sport 133,892 5,338 Central Services and Administration 347,875 361,644 How would you spend differently ?[/p][/quote]Well for a start add up local government and administration and you'll see where the problem is. And it isn't a country. As for the airport it serves the South. People in mid Wales and the North still fly from England. The vast majority of flights from Cardiff aren't business. For crying out loud man this is a third world backwater not Frankfurt or New York. Llanmartinangel
  • Score: 2

8:37am Thu 3 Apr 14

Mervyn James says...

From little acorns great oak trees grow :) We will remain a backwater without some forward thinking. International business, you would have them come here on the bus or something ? we know they cannot use or afford the M4.... which only a ban on cars can make viable or effective.
From little acorns great oak trees grow :) We will remain a backwater without some forward thinking. International business, you would have them come here on the bus or something ? we know they cannot use or afford the M4.... which only a ban on cars can make viable or effective. Mervyn James
  • Score: 0

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